Conference hydra::dejavu

	I can't say that I have ever achieved the OBE state but I do believe
others feel they have achieved it.  I too, would like to hear some replies
around your questions.  I don't know the difference between an "astral body"
experience and an OBE, either.  I think it is a big mistake to think that you
will reach a limit of experience by knowing more.  It implies that you feel
you have a concept of it all which is impossible.  The more you find out about
anything the more you realize that there is more to find out.

							Jorge'

   Thanx Jorge'.  My understanding of the difference between an OOBE and
astral projection is that most people are not concerned with whether
an OOBE is an astral or etheric projection.  Most pople who have an 
understanding of astral projection believe that there are two or more
projections or separation.  One etheric and one astral.  I think that I
have had both.  The etherial body is heavy and has limited sense ability and
the astral is light and takes off to other places with no real hesitation. 
Also the astral body has no sense capability that I can remember.
   Please remember that these are just my experiences and that I am not a
teacher of astral projection.  It may very well be that both bodies have
full sense capability.  I haven't seen it though.  My trips out indicate that
I can touch my physical body with the etheric body but in the astral state I 
blast off for parts unknown.  Thanx.

Mike, Co. Sp.

I believe this is discussed somewhat in Note 22

Steve Kallis, Jr.

This note addresses several terminological issues, especially but not
exclusively a reply to question 2 ("Why do some people call it `astral
projection` and others `oobe's`").

The two terms come from different traditions.  It's a little like asking why
some people call it a "floor" and others call it a "deck."  The term "astral
projection" is used by a number of occult and mystic traditions (I think that
its a fairly recent term, but I'm not sure).  The precise meaning of the term
varies from tradition to tradition.  Some use it as a fairly broad term while
others see it as part of a spectrum which includes such similar but distinct
(to the people who follow that tradition) concepts as "etheric" travel.

The term "Out of Body Experience" was invented by parapsychologists (if anyone
is interested I can try to find out who).  When used within that tradition it
refers to a subjective experience where the experiencer's point of view seems
to be localized in ordinary space but not anywhere within the volume of
ordinary space where their body happens to be.  Travel in "other planes" of
existence is not generally included.  In almost all cases the position seems
to be above (and looking down) at the experiencer's reclining body, or behind
and just above the experiencer's seated or standing body.  Or at least, the
experience usually starts there.

In many early parapsychology the acronym/abbreviation OOBE was used.  This is
not according to the usual rules for forming acronyms in English (prepositions
and articles are usually dropped, e.g., it's the USA not the USOA).  For this
reason, OOBE has mostly dropped out of use within parapsychology to be
replaced by "OBE".  (Note, by the way that all the letters are capitalized).

Occultists and other non-parapsychologists interested in this area have picked
up use of the term.  Unfortunately, they usually use the older form with the
extra "O".  When used by someone other than a parapsychologist the term may or
may not mean the same thing as when used by a parapsychologist, and may or may
not mean the same thing as the term "astral projection" used by someone else
or the same person.

By the way, the closest term in (non-para) psychology and medicine (especially
pharmacology) seems to be "dissociative state" (my spelling may be way off).

	Topher

Both my wife, Linda, and her friend, Lois, have, during meditation, experienced,
what the call, "experiences on the ethericic plane.

From listening to  their  descriptions  (the  most  I've  ever  accomplished  is
"seeing" through my eyelids), I've concluded that they've had OOBEs.  My "guess"
is that we have  3  bodies  ...  physical,  emotional  (astral),  and  spiritual
(etheric)  ...  does  this  relate to the Christian Trinity?)  We're most secure
from psychic attack in the physical body ... least in the etheric.

Terry

         I read, in a book by Herbert B. Greenhouse called "The Astral
    Journey", an interesting thing that I will pass on here.
    "...solid evidence for OOBEs.  In one case of consciousness-plus-
    clairvoyance-plus witnesses, a woman living in Ireland was looking
    for a house to buy and found it while out of her body.  It suited
    all her requirements-it was the right size, the furniture and decor
    were just right, and the colors of the walls pleased her.  There
    was only problem-she didn't know where it was.
         She went back astrally many times to look at the house and
    liked it more each time.  The following year she and her husband
    deided to move to London.  Answering a newspaper ad in the real
    estate section, she was amazed when she walked into the home of
    her dreams.  When the owner say her, she screamed, "You're the ghost!"
    The house had a reputation for being haunted and finally was sold
    at much less than its value-to its own ghost."
         Think of the possibilities.
    
    Mike

an old note, but oh well... I've only got 38000 some odd notes to read before I
come ack this way again...  But just thhought I'd mention that author
Mary Summer Rain makes a distinction between "soul sight" and "soul flight".
Soul sight being a projection of the soul to, or taking on the perspective of,
an area or object and experiencing the environment of that place or object.
Soul flight I understand to be a "true" out of body.  

Soul sight is much easier to accomplish than soul flight, but I believe
most would claim either experience as an OBE.

just more food for thought....
be back to see any more input after the next 38000 notes ;^)

Glennnn