Conference hydra::dejavu

    Re .0 (Sugimoto):
    
    _Foucault's Pendulum_ is a lot of fun, but remember that its author,
    Umberto Eco, is a semitocian, and he has a lot of fun throwing up
    esoteric references without necessarily going beyond a superficial
    discussion of his subject (as in the case of the Qabballah, for
    instance, where he makes one observation of the Tree and the relations
    of the sephira, and then drifts elsewhere).
    
    Anyway, it's an entertaining read.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    re.0 
    
    You will find information on the Templars in the MASONIC conference, 
    LESREG::MASONIC. I have posted some data on the Templars there. Very
    interesting organization indeed...
    
    
    								JSR:.
    

Re. 1
  Yes, vous avez raison. Besides Eco reader, I am also a reader of Jacquis 
Derrida, Deleuze, Guatarri, Roland Barthes, Susan Sontag, etc. So I wanted to 
do some 'text analyze' on this novel that full of denotation. But my poor 
ability to comprehend English text did not let me dig into the text.
Will you show me your analysis or interpretation? Discussing over that matter 
will be so much fun!

Re. 2
  I never imagined such a conference exists! Interesting. Does it require 
membership? Considering it is masonic notesfile, there must be awful 
initiation!

/sugimoto,  Japan

  Your ability to communicate in English seems quite good!

  Thank you for the recommendation to read Umberto Eco and the other
  authors you mentioned. If you enjoy their work, you will probably also
  enjoy very much the work of Jorge Luis Borges (mystical short stories)
  and Idries Shah (on the Sufis and their Teaching). Both of these
  writers have mentioned, at occasional points, connections between
  their material and the Templars, Freemasons, Rosicrucians ("Croix
  Rose"), Gnostics, etc.

    
    re.3
    
    ...no membership needed. Its ' an open conference, just add to your
    notebook and enjoy...
    
    								JSR:.
    

    Would it be possible to repost the information on Templars here?
    (I did look through the 169 topics in the Masonic file and didn't spot
    it.)
    
    Thanks.
    

  "Knight Templar" is a title or rank which a member of the Masonic
  fraternity can hold, so the MASONIC conference contains many
  references to this expression in this regard. But the references you
  may be interested in concern the Templars and their connections to
  mystical affairs. Notes 53, 70, 84, and 120 in LESREG::MASONIC contain
  some discussion on this.

  In particular, note 70 is about a book called "Holy Blood, Holy
  Grail", which is a fascinating investigation into the possibility that
  Jesus didn't die on the cross and may have had children. It's
  presented as non-fiction, but one can't be sure, of course.
  Nevertheless, it contains some fascinating factual (and some
  quasi-factual) information about the Freemasons, Templars,
  Rosicrucians, Gnostics, etc.

  Disclaimer: I'm not a Mason, just an interested observer.

  
  FWIW : Another good book regarding the Templars is "Born in Blood"
  (by J.Jones I think) as it makes a number of rational connections with
  various historic events ... possibly of more interest to my fellow
  Britons or those interested with medieval European history than to other
  nationalities but still worth reading if you get the chance.
  
  Frank

	"Born in Blood" has a review in one of the replies to note 120
	in the Masonic conference; correction to the author's name which
	is John J. Robinson.  Currently I'm about a third of the way
	through the book and find it good reading (having recently
	read "Holy Blood Holy Grail" and "Foucault's Pendulum" since
	I'm on a Knights Templar "jag" lately).  Worth reading if
	you're interested in the Templars, bear in mind that this
    	book is a lot more factual so it's a bit of a different "read"
	than the more "von-Danikenesque" H.B.H.G. or the novel (that
	nevertheless contains a fair amount of Templar detail) F.P.
 
						Bill
						Santa Clara, California
    
                          

    
    
    Try "The Temple and the Lodge" by Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh
    (same authors as "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail").
    
    A complex, but interesting read - traces the Knights Templar from
    Europe to Scotland. They suggest that Freemasonry helped pre-empt a
    French-style revolution in England, and was a key factor in the
    development of the US as an ideal "Masonic Republic".
    
    Alex.

    Having just finished Foucault's Pendulum, I too am trying feverishly to 
    espand my knowledge of Templars and their alleged descendants the
    Masons and Rosicrucians. Does anyone know if "Born in Blood" and "The
    Temple and the Lodge" are currently in print? I would like to order
    them if they are so I would appreciate some info. I also read "Holy
    Blood, Holy Grail" and am in the process of getting my old book boxes
    out so I can find my copy to re-read it.
    
    I am, unfortunately, very uninformed on occultism, so I was unable to
    tell what was fact or tradition or what was fiction by Eco. So, its'
    back to school for me!
    
    I would like to "resurrect" this topic (hmm, I should have used another
    word, methinks) when I've read the books. I am really interested in
    this stuff......
    
    
    Marilyn 

	The follow-on book to "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" has a
	lot more information about the Templars in it, and 
	just what it was that led to their downfall...  The
	book is called "The Messianic Legacy."  Quite good,
	lots of references if you've a mind to track things
	down.

    How do the "The Messianic Legacy" and "The Temple and the Lodge" relate 
    to each other, if they do? Should I read one before the other?
    
    Thanks for all the info!
    
    
    Marilyn

    re: .11, Marilyn,
    
>    espand my knowledge of Templars and their alleged descendants the
>    Masons and Rosicrucians. Does anyone know if "Born in Blood" and "The
    
    	This might be more recent history than what you are interested in,	
    	but The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, founded 1887, is one of
    	the claimants to direct descent from the Rosicrucian Order.
    
    	Some occult historians believe that this order (or several of its
    	influential members) is the primary source of all practical 
    	information we have in the 20th century regarding the Western 
    	esoteric traditions.  
    
    	A detailed version of The Rosicrucian claim as to history can be 
    	found in The_Brotherhood_of_the_Rosy_Cross by A.E. Waite.  
    	
    		toddy

re: 1371.13 

>    How do the "The Messianic Legacy" and "The Temple and the Lodge" relate 
>    to each other, if they do? Should I read one before the other?

	I haven't read "The Temple and the Lodge", so all I can do
	is give some background on "The Messianic Legacy."

	Essentially, it's an extended piece historical detective work
	and biblical archaeology which attempts to uncover the origins
	of Christianity.  It comes to some very controversial conclusions
	about who Jesus really was, and about how the Church was established
	and perpetuated.  It provides a good deal of political/social 
	background for the periods it discusses, as well as doing a very
	decent job of analyzing existing archaeological findings.  In the
	process, discusses where the Templars fit into things.

	An excellent piece of work, but probably not on Pat Robertson's
	best-seller list... ;}

	~art