Conference hydra::dejavu

Out of interest, are there any non-religious explanations about ghosts?

It's virtually impossible to convince someone who doesn't believe any of the 
religious rubbish (IMO) of the existence of ghosts, when the explanations rely 
on references to "Heaven", "Hell" and other dubious entities.  Anyone care to 
"enlighten" me?

There must be a non-religious perspective, surely?

                                         
    Re.1
    
    Probably the best reference I can think of for 'ghosts' is, in fact,
    the movie 'Ghost', starring Patrick Swazye, Demi Moore, and Whoopi 
    Goldberg.
    
    A friend of mine who is not involved with any religion, etc., but
    rather can both see and hear these things, says that that movie is
    probably the closest to what really happens when we die (though it's
    been edited a lot for Hollywood purposes).
    
    There used to be a participant here who, in conjunction with a former
    moderator of this conference - Topher Cooper - went to a house to
    'guide the ghost of a deceased lady' on to her journey to the Light
    (Christ, Krishna, or whatever frame of reference you wish to use, since
    they're basically all the same in the end.)  She was stuck, and didn't
    want to go, but in the end they were able to convince her to turn
    toward the light, and she finally departed this plane correctly.
    
    There are countless books on these types of subjects (and I have a lot
    of them (;^).)  Any perspective in particular that you're looking for,
    in addition to the non-religious one?
    
    Cindy

Thanks for the reply.  My situation is this;  I choose not to believe any of 
the religious "teachings" that have been forced upon me or offered to me.  
Therefore, I find it difficult to believe in ghosts.  Everybody seems to bring 
everything back to a religious perspective.  Explanations of ghosts normally 
end up saying that the person's "spirit" is waiting to get into heaven, or has 
returned from heaven, or whatever.  Personally, I find it hard to believe that 
heaven exists, and thus have difficulty understanding why ghosts should exist, 
or how they exist.

Thanks for your interest...

    
    Nice P_N. >(B^>                                             
    
    Btw, are you located in the US?
    
    You may be interested in Joseph Campbell's works.  The most popular 
    of them is the book entitled "The Power of Myth", which contains a 
    large portion of the transcripts of the conversation between Bill 
    Moyers and Joseph Campbell. It's a 6-part series that comes on PBS 
    every once in a while...in the US, anyway.  His next most popular work
    is, "The Hero With 1000 Faces".
    
    A couple of my favorite lines on religion come from him.  Someone once
    asked him if he had 'faith'.  He replied, 'I don't have to have faith -
    I have experience!"  (;^)  Another one is when he was approached by a
    Catholic priest.  Here is that (paraphrased) conversation: 
    
    	Priest:   "Mr. Campbell, are you Catholic?" 
        Campbell: "I was once, Father."
        Priest:   "Do you believe in a Personal God?"
        Campbell: "No, Father, I do not."
        Priest:   "I guess then, you don't believe in anything that
                   can't be proven logically, and a Personal God
                   can't be proved."
        Campbell: "If a Personal God could be proven, then what 
                   would be the value of faith?"
        Priest:   "Well, it's been very nice talking with you,
                   Mr. Campbell."
    (;^)
    
    As for what exists beyond our physical form, Barbara Brennan's books
    are quite good.  They're about healing and the various layers of the
    auric field.  She's a Ph.D. former NASA astrophysicist, and therefore
    does not really get into the 'religion' or 'faith' stuff, but rather 
    skips all that and talks about simply healing in general.  She has
    founded the Barbara Brennan School of Healing, and a former DEJAVUer is
    now in his 4th year at the school, and for his homework assignments, I
    have been one of his 'practice dummys' (;^) since he began the program.
    The best book to flip through next time you're in a bookstore, is
    "Light Emerging", by Brennan.
    
    I also like "Body Of Light", by Lars and Short (I believe these are 
    the authors). They pull from the various religions the similiarities of 
    the energetic bodies, and they don't go into the 'faith' stuff either.
                                        
    Cindy

    
    Getting back to .0
    
    Thanks for sharing that story, Millie.  Sounds very real to me. 
    
    Cindy

    is it possible that it doesn't matter what second- and third-hand
    listeners think of the story (which already has been filtered through 
    several people)?   I don't think the value of the individuals'
    experiences lessen because their interpretations of what was being
    communicated may have been crude or old-fashioned.  the explanation
    took the form that the god-fearing people would understand.  the
    explanation was for the individuals in the drama, not for all of
    humanity to sit up and listen and agree.
    
    why do ghosts speak in a certain language (english), anyway?  for all 
    of humanity to listen, or for specific individuals?
    
    
    re  .0
    
    can you tell me what jeff looked like?  i drew a picture of someone
    named jeff several year's ago, in another dimension.  the name "jumped
    out at me" while reading your story...
     
    thanks

re .4

I'm in Britain, nation of cynics 8-)  Thanks for your response.

    re:  .5 and .6
    Thanks for your response.  I was beginning to think I made a mistake
    entering this note into the conference.
    
    If there are ghosts, I don't think they speak any language, I think
    it's just thoughts. (generic I guess)
    
    I don't know what Jeff looked like, but the next time I see his mother,
    I'll get a description.
    
    Also, I think it's a strong possibility that if the child was present
    when the priest was there, he would have probably come up with "Jesus"
    but the family was not aware of Jeff and the fact that he was dead.  
    
    Millie

    I liked the story and I am glad that you shared it with us. There 
    are a lot of things in this world that cannot be explained, just
    experienced.
    I lived for 11 years in an apartment in an old house in Hopkinton,
    and I shared it with a female ghost. I have no idea who she was
    (the house, when originally built, was used as housing for workers
    in the local shoe and boot factory), or when she died (although
    2 friends who saw her -- years apart, and no, they did not know
    each other -- both described her manner of dress so that I would
    date her as being late teens, early 20's, anywhere from 1890
    to 1910. I heard her talk once, as did a visiting friend. I have
    dozens of stories and experiences, as do various friends and
    house guests, and I liked her a lot. I think she just liked being
    there! One experience,, though, leads me to believe that she was
    of the Christian faith, and that is her excitement one Xmas
    morning, when she ran thru the apartment, pounded down the stairs,
    and went into the neighbor's place to watch the kids open their
    gifts. After the family left for breakfast next door at Grandma's,
    she slowly thumped her way back up to my place, wandered up and down
    the hall, looking into the living room, the kitchen, the living room
    again...she finally stopped outside my bedroom door (I felt her
    there, looking at me lounging in bed) and I said to her, "I'm sorry,
    I'm Jewish, there's no tree!" She slowly thumped her way down the
    hall, thru the kitchen and out the porch. I laughed for an hour!
    
    Anyway, now you've got me smiling at some memories of her escapades!
    thanks!