Conference hydra::dejavu

    I would contact the Heart of the Dove in Tewksbury, MA.  Most of the
    teachers from Mass and other parts of New England have taught there at
    one time or another.
    
     M

re: .0
	Hi! I had a few questions...

>    My name is Tracy, I am a young natural who is presently looking for a
>    teacher.

	What is a 'young natural'? What find of teacher are you looking
	for?

>    	I do not follow any one learning as of yet.  I have had experiences
>    with mostly Druidism, Wicca, and various other groups.  I've tried to
>    abuse only once, and learned my lesson quickly, & the hard way.

	could you clarify? I can't parse the last sentence...

		Thanks and Happy New year!

			Robert.

    Robert,
    	A "Natural"  is a individual who uses only skills given to them
    from birth.  
    	I would explain the other sentence to you, but for some reason I
    really don't think you would want to know.  Sorry.
    
    Tracy

    re: .3
    
>    A "Natural"  is a individual who uses only skills given to them
>    from birth.
    
 	Sorry. I still don't get it. What sort of skills?
    
>    I would explain the other sentence to you, but for some reason I
>    really don't think you would want to know.  Sorry.
    
	If I didn't want to know, I wouldn't have asked. I can only guess
    	that you were trying to convey some sort of information with that
    	sentence - it just doesn't parse in English!
    
    		Ah well, life goes on...
    
    				Robert.
    
    

    i thought the "abuse" statement was simply given as a reason for
    seeking a teacher, guidance, encouragement to do things more carefully.
    i don't see how it fails to 'parse' in english.  the grammer looks all
    right.  perhaps if you don't understand the meaning, you could learn to
    communicate and comprehend through other than language.  well, in fact,
    i know you will.
    
    i don't know about teachers.  all the ones i experienced were snobs.  it
    was nice being around people who addressed things that concerned me,
    but their efforts to manipulate created bad feelings.  maybe i just 
    hadn't found the right place.  although, now that i think of it, seeing 
    how people are just as manipulative and controlling in the metaphysical
    world may have been the best lesson i could have learned.  watch out
    for the ones with big hair and lots of makeup.        

re: .5

>    i thought the "abuse" statement was simply given as a reason for
>    seeking a teacher, guidance, encouragement to do things more carefully.
>    i don't see how it fails to 'parse' in english.  the grammer looks all
>    right.

 	"I've tried to abuse only once, and learned my lesson quickly, &
	 the hard way."

	It isn't clear to me just what or who she tried to abuse. My language
	skills aren't the best, so I asked for clarification. My mistake.

>   perhaps if you don't understand the meaning, you could learn to
>    communicate and comprehend through other than language.  well, in fact,
>    i know you will.
    
	I'm open to any suggestions.

			Robert.

    what is it that you want to learn???

    >what is it that you want to learn???
    
    How to spell grammar?

    Jamie.

    PEOPLE!!!  I didn't open this notes file to get everyone riled up, I
    just wanted a teacher.
    	Robert, I meant skills along the lines that I was born with some
    abilities most people have to be taught to have.  I can see events in
    the future (not on request though).  I have dreams both while awake and
    asleep that come true.  Plus, I can "feel" individuals emotions, strong
    thoughts, and other such things.
    	The "abuse" I spoke of was the abuse of my abilities.  When I was
    first learning to have some kind of control over them, I used them for
    my own benefit.  This is wrong, and I was severly punished for it.
    	
    	To a lot of the people who have been sending messages along the
    lines of "It's wrong to search out a teacher, a teacher just finds
    you."  Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I don't.  I greatly enjoy
    learning, I am a compulsive reader, and don't feel that learning should
    be stunted just because whomever my teacher was supposed to be has
    not come forward, yet.  Besides, most of you who have made such
    comments probably were taught from a early age by your parents.  I was
    adopted, so neither of my parents knew what was going on.  They just
    knew I would wake up in the middle of the night saying my babysitter
    couldn't breath, and the next morning we discover she had suffocated in
    her sleep.  The only thing my parents thought to do was bring me to see
    a Priest.
    	So, I'm sorry if I seem overly anxious to learn.  But that is who I
    am, and most of my "Alike" friends understand that.
    
    Tracy

    Had the very clearly stated, simply structured, .9 explanation been
    provided in the first place, nobody would have gotten riled up. 

    HI,
    
       a question (or two) that you should consider first is precisely what 
    you want to learn and why, ie what do you want to do with it? Your
    success in finding a teacher, and the type of teacher you find will 
    depend on your motive for looking,(My belief).
    
     You seemingly wish to avoid exploiting your gifts 
    commercially. But is your motive still idle curiosity, or a wish to be 
    different? Or do you wish to develop to be of service to others only?
    
    For example.
    
    
    Psychic skills are many...
    
    The common astral skills....
    
    1. Knowing by feeling when "spirits" are around is very common.
    2. Hearing spirits (Clairaudience) is the most common psychic gift
    which is certainly trainable.
    3. Seeing spirits (Clairvoyance) is not as common but not rare.
    4. Having the odd dream or vision, without control (particularly of
    someone you know) is common for most mediums.
    5. The ability to Astraly project in a dream state is very common.
    6. The ability to consciously astral project is medium rare.(sounds
    like a steak..sorry)
    7. Having reliable, controlled prevision is extremely rare.
    8. Ability to go into deep trance for physical manifestations is fairly
    rare nowadays (though common in the 1800's)..and dangerous.
    
    Psychic skills are a bit like musical skills. Everyone has some,
    everyone can be trained and improved. Mozarts are born brilliant.
    
    Most of the above can be trained by "sitting for development". Most of
    the Spiritualist churches or groups that I know in the UK could give
    you contact information.  The US will
    probably have some equivalent. (White Eagle lodges perhaps)
    
    I mention these groups because they are totally non commercial, free.
    Their motive is purely service to others.
    
    If you do not want to develop purely astral gifts and would prefer to
    learn how to develop the communications with your own soul (My
    preference now) then you
    have different possible paths. My recommendation along this path would
    be to look for an organisation which
    concentrates on Mental Based yoga such as Raja Yoga such as the Arcane
    School promotes. (They run a correspondence course in study and 
    meditation..it is Very demanding intellectually over many years, the US
    group is based in N.Y. I have the address if you are interested). There 
    are other schools, there are other Yoga methods eg Bhakti Yoga, Dhyana Yoga,
    Hatha Yoga, Jhana Yoga, Karma Yoga, Kriya Yoga, Kundalini Yoga, Laya
    Yoga, Mantra Yoga.
    
    
    Everyone is psychic to some degree or other (whether they know it or
    not) Your rough description so far would put you in a 20% bracket (My
    guess). Unusual, but not rare. 
    
    How much knowledge do you have..you dont need a teacher to find
    knowledge. There is LOADS of literature about. Look in any New age
    shop. read this conference for good referals.
    
    Again...examine your motives. 
    
    Good luck
    
    
    Steve
    
     
    
    
    

    re:  .9...
    
    I've kept quiet on this particular topic but I actually can relate VERY
    well to you...
    I have most of the abilities you have and a few more...
    
    I, too, wanted to develop them...but for me it was more for peace of
    mind...I foresaw my best friend's death before it happened...even
    warned him about it, but he died anyway.  I've seen car accidents
    before they've happened and other things.  I have seen and felt spirits
    from "elsewhere" and I've dreamt the future to vivid detail.  I've
    always written everything down and told as many people as possible so
    that when the dreams really came true I had some sort of proof.  I
    needed that proof as a sanity check for myself.
    
    I've also been able to vividly see auras since I was 6 years old and I
    have the ability to do other things, but not the ability to interpret
    what I see.  I turned to books as a source of interpretation and saw
    that for every different book there is a different interpretation.
    There were very few books which were consistent in symbols and their
    meanings.  Aura colors were also different.  I've learned with those to
    interpret them as to how they make me feel...
    
    ANYWAY...the book I mentioned in another note, "Zolar's Encyclopedia of
    Ancient and Forbidden Knowledge" is a good place to start, if you are
    into self-learning.  It explains in good detail  how to sharpen and get
    some semblence of control over certain events.
    
    However, even that book is limited.  It was written for people who have
    the slight psychic ability and not deep enough for those who have very
    sharp skills, I feel.  For example...in the crystal gazing...it
    explains how you most likely won't see anything the first few times but
    be patient and practice.  It also said when you DID see something it
    would most likely be faded or murky and not clear.  Well, I've done the
    gazing for three nights now and each of those three nights I very
    clearly saw things.  Mostly the past but the first night I saw a flash
    of the future and the present...something going on 2200 miles away from
    where I was.
    
    I wrote it all down, including the date.
    
    Again though I'm not sure how to interpret what I see.  For instance,
    last night I saw a tarantula .. and then I saw a butterfly caught in
    its web.  What does that mean to me?  I don't know...but if I was to go
    along with the book's ideas, I'd say the tarantula was warning of
    someone who appeared to be friend but was really foe, laying in wait,
    and the butterfly could be a representation of what would happen if I
    wasn't careful.  But maybe that message isn't for me?  I don't know how
    to interpret what I see.  I  have better luck with dreams as I am new
    to this crystal gazing.
    
    I would suggest  maybe starting with this book...go to your library and
    check it out...
    
    After that...you might try talking to a psychic or two and see what
    they suggest.  The few times I've had psychic readings in the past the
    first thing they have always said to me is, "You are very psychic but
    you are afraid and uncertain of your abilities.  You have had a
    religious background which frowns upon the supernatural," which is most
    true.
    
    The psychic abilities I had really became sharp when I was eleven years
    old and my parents suggested I talk to the parish priest...MISTAKE! 
    They aren't prepared or equipped to handle it at all!  Hell, the nuns
    told me my nde (and I DID communicate with God) was a message from the
    devil???  Sick women...
    
    ANYWAY...the Louisiana nuns thought it was voodoo (superstitious)
    and the priests didn't know what to think...although they did think it
    was a divination they were unable to help me...
    
    When the psychich abilities sharpened and I began to see things I just
    began to explore things on my own...
    
    talking about them helped, and writing them down helps.  
    
    As for a teacher...that's tough...because I feel that, as the previous
    noter said, some are born extremely gifted, and how does one teach
    someone who is gifted?  That would be like trying to teach Mozart to
    play music...the man was born to music.  I like the analogy.
    
    I understand your desire and your quest and regardless of your reasons
    for wanting to develop your abilities, a lot of it is going to come
    from within you...following your instincts.  
    
    I have used my experiences and abilities to help people and not for any
    sort of a reward...more because I have felt good sharing with
    someone...
    A woman in another notes conference was suffering grief over the death
    of her best friend and by explaining my experience with death was able
    to reassure her that the friend was in no way suffering...
    
    So that would seem to outbalance your using the gifts for your own
    benefits and since it seems to be your own self that guides you I
    wouldn't worry about abusing your gifts...you know what is right and
    wrong.
    
    So with that bit of rambling I will close this off...it's only my 7
    cents worth but if you want to talk about this more then you can send
    me mail off-line...
    
    
    

    
    Hey - go for it, Tracy!  Don't let 'em get you down.  You've definitely
    come to the right place.  If you don't find your teacher here, at least 
    you'll get plenty of exposure to various 'paths' (if you will) by reading 
    some of the past notes here in this conference.  
    
    And, given my own experiences, I don't believe for a moment that 'a 
    teacher is supposed to find you'.  It just happens, and you'll know it 
    when it does.  In fact, even your teacher may not know it (consciously,
    anyway, as is the case with the person I consider my eternal guru - his
    name is Dave and he lives in Australia, but that's a whole 'nother
    story), but if you do, then in the end that's all that matters.  One can 
    also have several teachers.  Some people consider 'life' as a teacher, 
    but I suspect that you're looking for something a bit more focused (;^).  
    
    Anyway, is there anything you're interested in - something that really
    'grabs' you?  Astrology, holistic healing, yoga, Sufism?  Feel free to
    contact me offline if you like...I have a lot of friends who do so many
    different things that I'd be happy to send you off in their directions. 
    Kind of like interviewing at colleges to find the one that's right for
    you.  I wish I could tell you that my 'search' (again, if you will) and
    learning path was as conscious as yours, but it wasn't.  It just sorta 
    happened, and continues to happen this same way even now. (;^)  I even
    remember literally stumbling into DEJAVU back in 1987...I was going
    through the humongous notes conference listing and it just sort of
    jumped off the screen at me.  Life has never been the same since.  (%^)
    
    As far as I can tell, there are many different relationships you can
    have with a 'teacher'.  These days I prefer not to have a
    student/teacher relationship, and instead opt for the friend/friend
    relationship where we share our talents equally for the betterment and
    advancement of both...and all.  It seems to fit the networking paradigm
    that seems to be emerging in the world today, rather than the
    hierarctical one that isn't doing so well.  (Witness the fall of my own
    guru, Amrit Desai, at Kripalu Center, for one example, and how they are
    now going toward a 'decision by concensis' model.)  
    
    Enjoy!  That's the most important thing, I feel.  And, welcome.
    
    Cindy 

    
    As a fellow compulsive reader...
    
    Lots of people have told me along the way to 'stop reading and just
    meditate and the answers will come'.  Well, I'd suggest not bothering
    with such comments if you encounter them.  In the face of such advice, 
    keep right on reading - the answers come from *everywhere*.  A friend 
    of mine who used to drop hints that I should stop reading so much, 
    finally came across a Sufi story that went something like this:
    
    	First sufi:  "What are you looking for in that book?"
    	Second one:  "Why, the very same thing you have renounced your books 
                     to find!"
    
    He learned his lesson, and at long last I felt pleasantly vindicated.  (;^)
    
    What a lot of former intellectuals-turned-psychics don't understand is
    that those of us who have had interesting talents since birth, need the
    explanations in the books to put words to things we've simply 'known',
    but not 'know' that we've 'known'.  For us, the books are comforts and
    solace in a world that is more intellectual than not.  For them though,
    the 'words tended to get in the way', and so for them, giving them up
    to experience their Self is appropriate.  Convinced that their way is
    the only right and true way though, well, they just don't understand
    the other way because it wasn't their experience.  (;^)  
     
    Cindy
          

    Hi Cindy and Tracy, 
    I hate to butt in, in the middle of all this, but ('scuse the pun) Cindy 
    now you've caught my attention. I live in Sydney, tell us more about 
    Dave, if you can that is...
    
    
    Graham                                            

    
    Will do, Graham...though it will take a bit of time to write it up.
    
    More later.
    
    Cindy

Re:  .14

	Cindy, what happened to Amrit Desai at Kripalu?  I've been so deeply
	immersed in an extremely difficult personal problem that I haven't
	kept up on much in the last few months.  


	Mary  

    My understanding is, he was asked to resign by the board of directors
    at Kripalu, and he has been in seclusion with his family. 

    Re.18
    
    Mary,
    
    For the whole story, see note 1375 starting at .107.
    
    Hope things are working out better for you.  It's been a very
    difficult time for so many.  In fact, I was sitting at Christmas
    dinner and we collectively raised a toast in hopes that 1995 
    would be far better than 1994.
    
    Cindy

  RE:  .19, 20

 	Thanks for the information.  I just finished reading the string and am 
	absolutely bowled over by what has happened.  My closest friend was
	involved with Kripalu for several years in the early 80's, and always
	spoke glowingly of the place, the staff, and Amrit Desai.  What a 
	shock, and what a sadness for the victims and the disciples.


	> Hope things are working out better for you.
	>I was sitting at Christmas dinner and we collectively raised a toast 
	 in hopes that 1995 would be far better than 1994.
	

	Thank you, Cindy, for the wishes.  So far, though, things have been
	just as difficult as in the past, with both of my sons spending time
	in the pediatric psych unit at Cambridge Hospital - the 8-year old for
	6 weeks (through Christmas and New Year's), and the 4-year-old for the 
	past week and lord knows how much longer.  They are
	also victims of sexual abuse which was perpetrated on them by a terribly
	important man in their lives, and the devastation for them and for me
	is unimanigable - beyond painful and destructive.  

	I can speak to the
	experiences of the woman Amrit Desai and his paramour tried to destroy
	with their lies, as the perpetrator in our case tried for 2 years to
	convince everyone from therapists to judges that I was crazy, and did
	actually succeed in driving serious wedges between my sons and me.  In
	fact, so seriously damamged are my sons at their tender ages that we
	will now begin family therapy around the issue of domestic violence, so 
	they will learn to stop battering and abusing me, their own mother.  So
	when I read what had happened in the family of the first woman who
	disclosed about Mr. Desai, I, too, hope fervently that she prosecutes
	him for defamation of character and for causing serious and 
	irreparable damage and emotional harm to her and her son.

	I'd best get off my soapbox, now, having said more than I intended.

	Regards,

	Mary 

    
    Re.21
    
    Mary,
    
    I agree completely with you re: Amrit Desai.  I hope the women do decide 
    to pursue it further through legal channels.
    
    I cannot begin to imagine what you and your sons have gone through, and
    are continuing to go through.  My thoughts and prayers are with you
    all, as are probably every other reader of this conference as well,
    even though they may not express it in this note.  Such a terrible,
    horrible thing to have happened.  At least the healing can begin now,
    but it would have been a far better thing for there never to have been
    such a reason for it to have come to this to begin with.  
    
    Cindy

    
    From: "Hua Hu Ching - the Teachings of Lao Tzu", by Brian Walker, p.75
    
    Fifty-Nine
    
    Greed for enlightenment and immortality is no
       different than greed for material wealth.
    It is self-centered and dualistic, and thus an 
       obstacle to true attainment.
    Therefore these states are never achieved by
       those who covet them; rather, they are the
       reward of the virtuous.
    
    If you wish to become a divine immortal angel,
       then restore the angelic qualities of your
       being through virtue and service.
    This is the only way to gain the attention of
       the immortals who teach the methods of 
       energy enhancement and integration that are
       necessary to reach the divine realm.
    
    These angelic teachers cannot be sought out; it
       is they who seek out the student.
    When you succeed in connecting your energy with
       the divine realm through high awareness and
       the practice of undiscriminating virtue, the
       transmission of the ultimate subtle truths 
       will follow.
    This is the path that all angels take to the
       divine realm.

    
    re: .0
    
    Any progress with your search Tracy?
    
    js