Conference hydra::dejavu

    Ruth,
    
    	If you are talking about redoing the legal system as of today with
    the current mentalities, I don't believe the concepts reincarnation and
    karma are regarded highly enough by influential people in this society
    to change anything.
    
    	However, in about a hundred years, and with a lot of social trauma,
    maybe.
    
    	In a sense people who choose not to deal directly with an eye for
    an eye justice approach can be viewed as not wanting the karmic result;
    detaching from the event, or at least minimizing their karma.  (I'm not
    in that category.)
    
    tc

    I suppose I was thinking along the lines that the death penalty might
    become more acceptable since it would not be perceived as a complete
    end to one's life.

    Also, would this new justice system allow evidence in court that
    pertained to a previous lifetime?  ("Your honor, I shot him because 2
    lifetimes ago he stabbed my sister" etc.)
    
    Would courts be more likely to attempt to align sentencing with karmic
    payoff in mind?

    A lot of us in here like the idea of reincarnation, but are we ready
    for the type of society this belief could create?

    ???  There are many cultures on this planet that developed with a
    belief in reincarnation.  Why speculate when you can look at their
    justice systems.  I think you will find almost any variation your mind
    could imagine.  Look at fuedal Japan, then look at modern Japan.  How
    about India??  There is no easy or simple answer.  Reincarnation, like
    heaven and hell, color a culture's ideas about punishment in very
    complex ways.  If you are really interested in this, it would be a very
    rich area of study.  Check the library for cultural anthropology, read
    Sogun...  One could easily get a doctorial theises out of this.
    
    Judy
    

    .2
    A court still requires legal proof, Ruth... 

    re .3

    Judy,  Yes I agree that there are many existing cultures with
    reincarnation at the root of their ideology and you are right -- it is
    a good idea to look at their justice systems.  

    My specific wonderings are more in the line of how this might affect
    our *existing* western legal system, if we recreated it with
    reincarnation in mind.  

    I guess my concern is that we have created our system based on
    basically Christian (and yes, some pre-Christian) religious views.

    If we retrofit our current Judeo/Christian-oriented society with ideas
    of karma and reincarnation then what might we create?  And would we
    like it?

    By being so willing to embrace reincarnation, are we playing with
    societal fire?

    Will we, as a society, give up on our social programs because we think
    the misfortunate are merely working out their karma?

    Will we, as a society, hand out the death penalty freely, since it
    costs us too much to maintain criminals in prisons, and no real harm is
    done since the criminal will get another chance at life?

    Will we, as individuals, become lazy because if we don't accomplish
    something in this lifetime -- since we can always do it in another?

    Understand, I *like* the idea of reincarnation, but I wonder if it is
    really a dangerous idea, one that may hurt our society in the long run.
    
    Ruth

RE -1 (Ruth)

Karma can have *any* impact on 'the law'....

>    Will we, as a society, give up on our social programs because we think
>    the misfortunate are merely working out their karma?

Or will we, as a society, build up as many social programs because we think
we can make the misfortunate work out their karma much quicker that way,
thereby making grow the society as a whole much quicker?

>    Will we, as a society, hand out the death penalty freely, since it
>    costs us too much to maintain criminals in prisons, and no real harm is
>    done since the criminal will get another chance at life?

Or will we, as a society, find the death penalty unheard-of? Life is
regarded as the sole 'area' to work off karma. When we do not allow the
criminal to work off his karma in this lifetime (by having him undergo the
full punishment for his deeds), the karma will remain and be picked up in
another lifetime, and another criminal will exist then. So we have to punish
him now, in order to prevent crime for the future....

The discussions about 'karma' can be made along different lines. A
'passive' attitude and an 'active' attitude. Introducing karma thinking in
the west leads (has led) to a much more active attitude towards it than
there is in the east.

I'm not so sure whether we can keep this thought experiment pure enough to
draw any conclusions out of it....

Regards,

Arie

Or will we, as a society, find the death penalty unheard-of? Life is
regarded as the sole 'area' to work off karma. When we do not allow the
criminal to work off his karma in this lifetime (by having him undergo the
full punishment for his deeds), the karma will remain and be picked up in
another lifetime, and another criminal will exist then. So we have to punish
him now, in order to prevent crime for the future....

I can see it now, a whole series of gruesome, torturous procedures carefully
designed to extract maximum suffering without ending life.  Mandantory for
crimianls so they can come back as better people next time, and, for those
who wish to make real karmic progress, available for a certain fee at select 
spas and resorts.

Then you have to worry about the karma of the one doing the torture, right?
Au contraire, the torturer would also be accumulating good karma because
the torture is for the true benefit of the person being tortured as well as 
society.

Oooooh, I can think of several people who need serious karmic help.  ;->

80)

>Au contraire, the torturer would also be accumulating good karma because
>the torture is for the true benefit of the person being tortured as well as 
>society.

Au contraire. As far as I understand the Law of Karma, a torturer will
personally accumulate *bad* karma. It is one of the examples that I wanted
to include in my reply but didn't: they will not be able to find anyone to
do the punishment, because they might understand what impact it has on
themselves. 

Anyway, you are emphasizing another aspect of this discussion: introducing
'karma' into the law might lead both to 'better worlds' and to 'worse
worlds', depending upon the intention with which one applies it.

Regards,

Arie

    re: 5
    
    The Ultimate Frontier by Eklal Kueshana      $5.95?
    available from:	The Adelphi Organization
    			P.O.Box 181016
    			Dallas, TX  75218
    
    This book is the most interesting and plausible explanation of Karma
    and other related topics...especially in relation to Christianity and
    the teachings of Christ.  A very high probability every reader's para-
    digm will change.
    
    Kent