Conference hydra::dejavu

Both my brother and a friend of his swam with dolphins a couple of years ago
in Islamorada, which is in the Florida keys.  I was supposed to join them
but was sick with a cold that day but I stood and watched and took lots of
pictures.  They both said it was an experience they would never forget. I
would never forget it and I was just watching.  They really could'nt put
the experience into words ... overwhelming was a term they used many times.
From what I heard and from what I saw from them and the others that swam with
them that day (there were 6 people with 3 dolphins) it almost seemed like
some kind of spiritual experience for all of them. It was truly amazing.  Someday
I would love to be able to experience it myself.  There are several places
in the Keys that offer the swims and although I know there is some contreversy
around whether this is exploitation or not (I am a little mixed on this myself)
I do know that the care and love that the people running this swim in Islamorda
was very apparent.

    The big question is; Is it spiritual for the dolphins or does it
    exploit them. I saw a show, I htink it ws on PBS that talked to this
    and it didn't do the dolphins any good to swim with the humans.
    
    PJ(Who never swam with a dolphin, but I have kissed and hugged a Killer
    Whale once)

    
    Who says they're not studying humans during all this ;-)
    
    The closest I came to a dolphin (which was pretty close) was during a
    show at a hotel on my honeymoon.  I stood on a platform and held out a
    fish, which the dolphin jumped and took.  The precision in the jump is
    amazing, as his snout touched my fingertips gently (although with
    enough force to move them - less than an inch, though).
    
    The rest can be taken however you want: (bear in mind personal claims
    to empathic skills) the sensation upon contact was interesting.  I
    sensed intelligence, humor, and a sense of superiority, like he thought
    it amusing to play these games for fish.
    
    The pen he was in was such that I think he could have easily left it
    behind, yet he remained, and teased bystanders with shadowy glimpses of
    himself between shows.  He only acted up during regular show times.  He
    behavior went beyond a trained act, displaying, IMHO, intelligent, free
    activety, and an awareness of his life.
    
    Beth

    Well, I came in, in the middle of this show and as Channel 2 doesn't
    come in all that well, I started to watch. There are people who will
    take you out to an area in the ocean or maybe the Caribean Sea and let
    you swim with dolphins in the wild. As i say, I didn't see it all. I
    was hoping that someone had and could elaborate on it a bit more. One
    person was arguing that it was harmful to dolphins as it got them used
    to having people hand feed them (A woman I work with told me that her
    husband was in the bahamas last week and he did just this) That might
    get them used to having people feed them and if we stopped then thay
    might starve. (Maybe not). It also spoke to Dolphins in captivity and
    gave some facts and figures on the death rate and tried to make an
    argument that we don't know how many die and for evey dolphin in the
    tank at the aquarium, X amount die. (They named a figure, I don't
    remember) I think it was a NOVA program, but I can't be sure. 
    
    PJ(Who does feel that dolphins are intelligent and sentient and smarter
    then humans)

    Tom,
    
    I know a couple who organize dolphin swims in the Florida Keys.
    The place they go have penned in areas where the "swims" take
    place, however the fences to the pens are low enough that the 
    dolphins jump over, seemingly to come and go as *they* please.
    
    Sorry, I don't have a phone number but their address is:
    
    Mike and Winter Robinson
    430 Simpson Road
    Saco, ME  04072
    
    (They also facilitate an intuitive awareness workshop at Interface
    in Cambridge, MA)
    
    There is another women by the name of Kim Rosen (in New York state, I
    believe) who sponsors these trips as well.  If I recall correctly, 
    the basic dolphin swim is similar to what I described above;  the next
    session, providing a person is a good swimmer, takes place out in the
    ocean some distance from shore on a sailboat and you swim together
    out there with nary a fence in sight.
    
    I've heard that swims range a gamut of experiences.  When I last spoke
    to Mike Robinson he told me of a time when a woman entered the pool
    only to soon afterward be poked (pretty hard) in the area of the
    solar plexus.  Somewhat disgruntled and dejected, she ended her dolphin 
    swim for the day.  
    
    Later on the area where she was poked was uncomfortable sore and painful, 
    so she decided to go to the local emergency center and have it looked at.  
    From this examination it was revealed that she had a tumor, she was totally
    unaware of, in the exact spot the dolphin had "poked."  After returning
    home, further tests showed it to be malignant, so she had it removed. 
    Today she is alive and well with no additional signs of cancer, and
    unequivocally believes the dolphin somehow knew, and that firm poke that 
    she had been so upset about, may have indeed saved her life.
    
    I understand that many people who've worked closely with dolphins feel
    that they oftentimes seem to exhibit what we call a "6th sense."
    
    I think that 5 day dolphin swims cost about $750, not including
    airfare.
    
    Kb                                                                   

    kb, leave it to you to some up the swimming with dolphins experience in
    a way that has meaning to me. Thank you.
    
    Now, if someone could tell me what it does for the dolphins. :-)
    
    PJ

    After all, it's likely that Flipper never saw much in the way
    of royalties.  And he (she ?) had the most infectious laugh.
    
    							todd

    Re: .6 (dolphin finding tumor?)
    
    Well, dolphins supposedly have pretty good sonar systems, could they
    possibly be capable of similar functionality as an ultrasound system
    (like the kinds used to see a fetus)?
    
    Beth

    Re .6, Kb - Thanks!  My friend who is looking for this information
    will be delighted.  I'll be sure to post a note if she actually does
    a/the trip.

    This sure is an interesting thread...

    Tom, PJ,
    
    You're welcome.  If I find more detailed contact information,
    (I *know* I have it somewhere) I'll post it here.
    
    Kb

    Kb,
    
    Didn't Terry Casper, who used to note here in Dejavu, actually swim
    with dophins a few times on one of these excursions?  
    
    Ro
    

    Hi Roey,
    
    The excursions Terry was involved in were to photograph and
    "count" dolphins as part of an on-going, volunteer supported research
    project.  If I recall correctly the primary purpose of this project
    was/is to help provide data to better understand how future laws or
    regulations could be designed to protect them.  I do know that during 
    these excursions there was no swimming or any other physical contact 
    with the dolphins permitted.  
    
    Kb

    About two years ago there was a series of articles in the local
    'alternative' press about a woman soliciting donations to open a
    'dolphin habitat' in the Arizona desert !  This insane project died a
    quick death.  The woman was later proved to have some mental problems
    and had been in prison for fraud.  This effort was the worst kind of 
    neo-woo-woo charlatanism.  And she GOT PRESS and ATTENTION !  Bizarre.  
    There's a real lack of common sense out there.
    
    Excuse me, I have to go swing my crystal now to tell me what to do
    tonight..
    
    karl

    Last week sometime the Discovery channel aired a terrific
    program on whales.  I taped part of it.  Turns out dolphins
    are actually whales.  They had a nice little segment where
    they (with great footage of dolphins and humans merrily frolicking
    about and playing with each other) talked about how friendly
    these creatures are, and how they seem to love human companionship.
    They visited the place where Flipper was filmed.  There's a pen
    there but the door is open - and the dolphins don't leave.

    Re the dolphin and the tumour. A tumour is a very mixed up thing and it
    can be over supplied with blood and have a higher metabolic rate than
    normal tissue. This all makes it a little warmer than the rest of the
    body. The dolphin may have sensed the temperature difference.

    Re .7

    >Now, if someone could tell me what it does for the dolphins. :-)
    
    Good question. But if they voluntarily come and swim with humans
    there must be something in it for them. Perhaps we amuse them.

    Jamie.

   "So long and thanks for all the fish"
    
    Capt. Scott

    to sort of answer my own question, perhaps, if dolphins are sentient,
    we know they are intelligent, they are trying to show how friendly we
    are so that we will stop killing them.
    
    I've pondered the thought that perhaps dolphins are the highest ocean
    species, porpoises are like the chimps, and whales are like the
    elephants. Just a thought and probably incorrect.
    
    PJ

I have been an irregular "read only dejavuer" for quite a while now, but
could not resist answering this as it it very close to my heart.  Last
year I spent a couple of weeks working with dolphins in a research lab run
by one of the leading professors in mammal intelligence.  

We were not allowed into the pool to swim with the dolphins, but took
part in the research and were also taught a sign language to communicate
with them.  I was disappointed at first, but once they explained why
we couldn't swim with them I accepted it totally.  The main reason is
that even though they have thick skins, it grazes very easily, and they
pick up human viruses or infections very easily, which can cause severe
illness and skin infections for them.  We were allowed to kiss, hug and
stroke them however, but first had to wash and disinfect our hands, remove
all jewellery and be in a healthy condition , i.e. no colds, open sores or 
wounds.

The other reason is that they have a temperament very much like us, they are
very sociable animals, but there are times when they do not want human company.
These particular dolphins would clearly let us know when they wanted to be
left alone.

The problem with the majority of these "swim with a dolphin" places are that
the health condition of the people who participate is  not checked at all,
nor are they told to remove all jewellery.  Very little precaution is taken.

The "open gate" places are obviously much better for the dolphins themselves
as they are free to come and go depending on their mood.  The closed in ones
have been dramatic in some places as they have nowhere to escape and some
dolphins could not cope with having people "thrown" at them constantly.  They
have been known to have depressions, nervous breakdowns, and quite a few
have committed suicide by starving themselves, or beating their heads against
the pool walls until they kill themselves.

I must admit that I am still tempted by the idea of swimming with them,
even knowing all this. I would just like to say that if you get the chance, 
and of course the choice, do so in an "open gate" area.  They truly are very 
intelligent mammals, and also have a lot of feelings and emotions of their own,
which should be respected.

I once heard someone say we are the humans on earth and they are the humans
of the oceans.  I believe this to be true.

Sorry to have rambled on so long, I don't mean to sound like I am scolding
anyone, but this is a subject I feel strongly about.

Tish.

    Thank you _very_ much for sharing some of the things you learned 
    in your experience Tish!  I, for one, will remember them.      
    
    Karen

    
    	Tish, I would like to know who you worked with, you can send me
    	mail if you don't want to say here.
    
    	I went to college to study marine mammal behavior, and although
    	I didn't finish my degree, I read a LOT of remarkable things 	
    	about dolphins. One theory does suggest they can detect illness
    	and/or tumors through sonar. I don't know if we'll ever find out 
    	why they choose to associate with us. 
    
    	One story that I know I photocopied because it gave me the chills
    	when I read it, was about a researcher and his subject dolphin,
    	Ruby. He was trying to teach her to mimic his name, for days he
    	would keep saying his name to her and if she tried to mimic it he 
    	would give her a reward. She couldn't seem to get the hang of it,
    	but her response was always the same, so he decided to pay more
    	attention to what exactly she was saying. He had been listening so
    	hard for his own name the whole time that he didn't realize she was 
    	coming out with her version of HER name - roo-beeee! As soon as he 
    	realized it, he gave a little jump and the look of realization must
    	have been in his eye because she immediately began cavorting all
    	over the place saying roo-beee over and over again. The funny thing
    	was the whole time he was trying to get her to say HIS name, she
   	was trying to get him to say hers.  It struck me because they are 
    	probably trying to learn just as much from us as we are from them,
    	perhaps that's why they stay in the open research pens! 

 RE .21

I went through the Earthwatch organization.  The research lab is in
Honolulu and is run by Dr. Louis Hermann.  They work with 4 happy,
healthy dolphins and are very strict about keeping them this way.

While I was there they were running various tests on their sonar systems,
and also on memorisation.  The first few days there I thought I would never
be able to tell one from the other but after a while it is not that
difficult to pick them out, either through markings, size and general
behaviour.  It was quite amazing to see that each one had a very
different character and personality.  I think the thing that marked me
most was their different reactions when they made mistakes during trials.
The youngest one, after having made two or three mistakes in a row would
swim off to the other side of the pool and sulk for a couple of minutes -
very much like a young child.  The oldest one, who by nature is a very fast
and eager learner, also quite impatient, would get very agitated and annoyed
at herself when making mistakes.

By the time I left I had my favorite, and I think she was quite fond of me
also.  She was always the first one to come and greet me in the morning,
and when I was doing general chores around the pool she would follow me 
around.  At the end of the day, during 'playtime' she would always come
over to me, and if any of the other, bigger ones came over, she would 
stand back, wait for them to get fed up and move on to someone else, but
she always stayed by me.  Needless to say I had a hard time saying goodbye
to her, and still think of her often now.  What I really miss is the
clicking and chirping, the sound of happy dolphins.

It really was a wonderful experience, during which I learnt alot about
the mammals, but also had a wonderful and rewarding time.

Should you want anymore info on this, don't hesitate to mail me.

Tish.

    Thank you for entering the info Tish and welcome to our "whacky" world.
    :-)
    
    It was interesting that you had to wash and disinfect and go through a
    sort of health check before coming in contact with the dolphins. The
    only time I have had close, physical contact with Ocean Mammals was at
    the Baltimore Aquarium. As I said in my first reply in this string, I
    kissed a whale. It was a small whale. It was a "Killer Whale". The
    aquarium is laid out sort of opposite to the New England Aquarium.
    Instead of a central tank, the people walk around the center and the
    displays and the fish surroung them. The whale was at the bottom, just
    as one enters. The New england Aquarium has sharks and turtles in this
    area. I asked an attendant if the whales came to the surface and she
    said she could bring them up, but I had to give them a hug and a kiss.
    I agreed. In retrospect, this may have been stupid and dangerous on my
    part. From what you say Tish, it certainly appears stupid on the part
    of the attendant. Anyway, one of the whales came up to the surface,
    close to where we were standing and I reached out to pet it. The whale
    didn't move away, so I gave it a small hug and a peck, such as one
    might give  a pet dog or cat. I said thanks and continued on my tour.
    
    PJ 

    (while getting ready to go to a doctor's appointment this morning) 
    
    I saw a show on TV discussing the "swim with dolphins" programs in 
    Florida.  The sponsors were definitely opposed to it, although they
    seemed to focus on the closed pool operations.  The people interviewed
    pointed out the following: methods of capture for closed pool
    operations are cruel and harmful (netting pods in shallow water,
    selecting the "fittest" for their pool), that in the wild, if a dolphin
    doesn't want to swim with you, you won't be able to force it, and
    finally, that over time, dolphins in the closed pool operations start
    to exhibit signs of stress (which can become harmful to the people and
    dolphins), most likely caused by the constant exposure to new people
    daily.
    
    Although the show seemed to be aimed at closing down ALL swim
    programs, they only discussed the effects of closed pool operations. 
    Given the bias of the information, I think it sounds like the open pool
    may still not be great for them, but the programs of deep water swims
    must be fine (the dolphins are free to leave whenever they want).
    
    I didn't notice what channel it was (besides 27 on the cable box), but
    I think that is the Discovery channel in my area.
    
    Beth

    This is offered just as a related incident. I don't know enough about
    dolphins to know whether swimming with them is "good" or "bad" for
    them but I would give my eye teeth to meet one. 
    
    For the past six summers on the northeast coast of England a dolphin
    called Freddie has been swimming and visiting people in one of the
    smaller harbours.  He comes of his own accord and leaves of his own
    accord.  Earlier this spring there was fear that Freddie had died when
    he failed to appear at the usual place and a rumor went around that he 
    had been drowned in the nets of fishing boats.  However, last week 
    Freddie appeared at a harbour further down the coast and was positively 
    identified by divers who know him well.  It looks like Freddie will spend 
    a seventh summer with the people of the northeast of England! 
    Lucky they.
    
    LaDonna
    
    PS Perhaps some other UK noters could help me with the place names.  I
    want to say he was at Witby but I think that is wrong.

    Glad to hear that Freddie is fine. Hmm. Maybe Freddie is female and was
    late because she gave birth. I haven't a clue on the gestation periods
    of dolphins or how long their young stay with them. Maybe Freddie is
    male and was off mating. I don't know the mating habits either.
    
    All I do know is what my son reminded me of last week when I was
    discussing this with him. (He's reading the 4 books of the Hitchhiker's
    trlogy right now) The dolphins are just along for the ride and the fun.
    It's the mice that are studying us. :-)
    
    
    PJ

    PJ (.26),
    
    Gee and I thought it was the 'rats' that were studying us!  ;')
    
    Roey
    

    Only in our dreams, Roey, only in our dreams. :-)
    
    
    PJ

Hi there,

I am interested also in dolphins and sea mammals. I haven't been to the dolphin
swimming places that are located in the Florida Keys but I have heard some 
interesting stories such as the dolphins not swimming with pregnant women or
people with certain medical conditions. One such women was given this
explanation as to why the dolphins would not swim close so she could touch them
and was most indignant that she was not pregnant, a month later she wrote a
letter to the centre to inform them that she had in fact been pregnant but
was not aware of it at the time.
My experiences of swimming with dolphins have only been in the wild. Once in
Belize I spotted some dolphins quite close to shore and swam out, they came
within 5 or 6 feet of me swimming sideways looking at me and making clicking
noises. Last year I sailed a yacht from Tampa Bay Florida to England, 
via, the Keys, Fort Lauderdale, Savannah, Bermuda, Azores, Spain.
Going around the Florida Keys was beautiful, a lot of the time was without any
useable wind, the sea was like a mirror, the bow  cutting the silvery surface 
causing schools of flying fish to skim across the water, the sunshine shimmering
on their wings. Here a group of dolphins spotted us, and in no time were around
the boat. If they were at the bow and we stood ove,r they would roll sideways
looking up at us. We spent a couple of hours swimming and playing with them,
one at time (as we still had some sail up), no matter how carefully we tried
to slip into the water, they would would see us/hear us and in a second would
be alongside, in the end our skin was beginning to go 'prunish' and we called it
a day, this soon became apparent to the 'leader' dolphin and as we were standing
on deck 'he' (could have been a she - females can be like that) jumped clean
out of the water and just as he was about to hit it twisted his tail and
splashed us both. We both felt absolutely sure that this was his way of saying
'come on back in and play with us', - fair enough I guess as we couldn't 
understand the clicking language they were talking to us in.
At night time when the dolphins came around the boat the phosphorescence would
show their underwater passage as 'tubes' of spiralling green light.
We encountered dolphins for entire journey, although more so nearer land, near
Spain they were smaller and distinctly two toned and sometimes in pods of
50 to 60. If it was safe to do so, I almost always would jump in with them.
Even when we got caught in huge seas from Hurricane Anna they were there.
They are lovely creatures and seem to have a sensitivity that many people
would find uncanny and surprising.

To the next reader who swims with dolphins, spare a moment to say hello for
the rest of us.

Lewis

    My wife and I had the pleasure of being with dolphins on two different
    occasions in Hawaii. The first time was just off the coast of Maui. We
    were sailing in a catamaran and 75 or so spinner dolphins joined us.
    This type of dolphin loves to leap into the air and spin several times
    before re-entering the water. They continually swam under and around
    us. We could only briefly touch them as they surfaced just in front of
    our bow. It was obvious that they enjoyed our company as much as we
    enjoyed theirs. They stayed with us for a good hour or so.
    
      The second time we met with dolphins was more prearranged. The
    Waiakoloa Hotel on the island of Hawaii has closed pens with dolphins.
    They allow guests to swim with the dolphins. They severely limit the
    number of new people that each dolphin sees to something like four
    people per day. Guests must enter a lottery to have a chance of
    swimming with the dolphins. Amazingly my wife and I each won a chance 
    to swim with the dolphins (it took three days of trying). The session
    with each dolphin consisted of 20 minutes meeting at the docks with
    them (as well as getting training on dos and donts, education about
    them, etc. from the instructors) and 45 minutes of swimming/playing.
    The dock meeting allowed them to get accustomed
    to each of you and vice versa. You can definitely see different 
    personalities between them as some are very to start immediately
    playing, while others enjoy having their underside, which is extremely
    soft, rubbed. It is also interesting to note that some enjoy the
    company of women over the company of men. The instructors were not sure
    why this was the case. They just noted the strong bonding that
    particular dolphins showed towards women. The part of swimming/playing
    with them was definitely incredible. We snorkled with them, which
    allowed us to experience their sonar abilities. At one point I could
    hear the clicking of one dolphin's sonar getting faster and faster.
    By the time I turned around to see who it was, he had already closed in
    on me. From land, you get a good assessment of their speed, but you are
    in awe when you swim and try to react in the water with them. One
    dolphin enjoyed playing hide and seek. He would swim off only to return
    a few seconds later sneaking up from behind and nudging you as if to
    say, "tag...you're it!" and then swimming off again. 
    
      I can see how mankind could abuse the privilege of being with these
    great creatures. I can see how a zoo like atmosphere must seem like a
    jail sentence to them. I am glad that the hotel we stayed at limited
    the exposure that each animal recieved. The dolphins seemed more than
    eager when we they met people. I guess good things come in small doses. 
    As much as my wife and I loved seeing the active volcano and lava up
    close in a helicopter, we both agreed that being with the dolphins was
    a more memorable experience. I still keep my underwater picture of Kona
    in my office to this day. 

         
    What a great story!  Thanks for entering that.  I really enjoyed it.
    
    Cindy

Subject: Health Ministry opposes dolphin-assisted birth
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 10:28:37 PDT

	JERUSALEM (UPI) -- Israel's Health Ministry threatened Wednesday to
sink the plans of six British women who traveled to the Middle East to
give birth underwater at a dolphin park.
	``The director of the Health Ministry has issued a clear prohibition
against this method of birth,'' said Haim Broikes, a ministry official.
	The women, who are all in advanced stages of pregnancy, arrived in
the southern tourist haven of Eilat and intend to deliver their babies
in a water park that is a local tourist attrraction. They anticipate
that captive dolphins in the park will attend the births and help out.
	Broikes said the ministry is forbidding the process because it does
not allow underwater births in places not licensed by the ministry. He
noted the ministry had received no request from the hospital in Eilat to
authorize the unconventional method of birth.
	Broikes noted that many women in Israel have given birth in pools,
but only in a hospital and under accepted controls.
	The womens' doctor, Mota Gowri of London's Jeyrani Health Center,
told the daily Yediot Aharonot newspaper that the dolphins will sense
the women giving birth in the sea and the natural sonar they emit will
help ease the shock of childbirth to both mother and child.
	Roni Zilber, owner of the Dolphin Reef, and Gowri will meet ministry
officials Thursday to try and convince them that the process is safe and
should be authorized.
	The six mothers-to-be, several of whom already have children, had
planned to spend the next several weeks getting acquainted with the
dolphins by swimming with them in the enclosed area of the seaside water
park. As their due dates arrive, the women are to float in individual
transparent water-filled cubicles where they are expected to go into
labor sometime in the next two months.
	Dolphin Reef spokeswoman Jane McShane said the marine mammals are
known for ``helping one another during childbirth,'' and that their
proximity to the women may influence the humans as well.
	McShane said that despite the objections from the Health Ministry,
the women were having a nice holiday and were in the water with the
dolphins like everyone else.
	``But no one is going ahead with this until it is authorized by the
Ministry of Health,'' McShane said.

    Why do they keep sonar animals in tanks?

    >Why do they keep sonar animals in tanks?
    
    Because they kept dying in cages.
    
    Jamie.

    I imagine they don't do too well in tanks either.

    From what I've read, it's a real unhappy situation for them.
    
    Mary