Conference hydra::dejavu

    Wow! Your first dream is really unusual, I can see why you did not
    forget it. I had a dream like that, one that I will never forget,
    matter of fact, I had to run to the bathroom and splash water on my
    eyes to stay awake. I was 17 at the time.  All I can remember is a
    weird electrical feeling going through my body, all of a sudden I was
    flying around my bedroom. I swear I was concious and I could feel the
    wind blowing in my face and through my long hair, I could remember
    everything was where it was as I put it that night, I was flying at a
    very fast speed......then before I knew it, I was in my folk bedroom,
    they are sleeping, I try to wake them up, screaming at the top of my
    lungs, but nothing would come out.. cause I had no voice!!! Then I feel
    myself falling....falling, I was on my back when I woke up!!! It
    frightened me incredibly!! Was it a dream or what?? Up to this day
    (this happened about 11 years ago) I do not sleep on my back.
    
    
    I can see why your dreams trouble you, the ones you had especially the
    first you described, sound very disturbing. The one I had was not
    disturbing, just plain bizzare!!

    re: .0 (1st dream)
    
    I wouldn't feel confident enough yet to offer an interpretation of 
    the dream - there are just too many unknowns and possibilities at
    this point.  So what follows is a scenario that ties together
    some of the major images.  See if any of it rings a bell with you.
    (I'll assume that, as you said, the mummy is a man - although I
    wonder how you know that he is.)
    
    When you were about 10 yrs. old, your family considered spending
    a considerable amount of money on something, but your father vetoed
    the idea.  "If we bought that, we couldn't afford these other pay-
    ments - if something happened we could be left out in the cold!"
    Thinking of the cold, you were reminded of a similiar situation,
    years ago, and before you knew it, you had gone into your time
    machine (the refrigerator) and there you were, back on the day that
    the insurance salesman (the mummy) appeared again....
    
    Your father had already bought insurance from him - fire, accident,
    and car.  The salesman was a real pest, always trying to sell more
    and more coverage.  Today's scene was unusually bad, a double whammy.
    Costs were being increased and even more coverage was required.  What
    a sales pitch he mounted!  Yes, yes, he knew that prices were sky-high,
    but what would your father do if he lost his house or his car or his 
    job?  He *had* to have a bridge to tide him over in case something hap-
    pened! "How would YOU like to get hit with an increase like this?" shout-
    your father, as he hurled a stone at the "mummy."   "Too bad," counter-
    ed the mummy, "you don't have a choice - all this coverage is *requir-
    ed*!  You father did what he had to do - he paid up - but it killed
    him.
    
    Virginia 
    

    re: .2
    
    And to pay up, your father may have had to borrow the money -
    I notice that this was a sLENDER mummy.
    
    Virginia

    I had hoped to get some feedback on dream #1 from the author of the
    base note and then to comment on the "voices" experience at the lake,
    but the note has been deleted [what happened?!] - so I'll reply to .2 
    instead.
    
    In answer to your question, "Was it a dream or what??" - you had a
    lucid dream, i.e., a dream in which you were conscious that you were
    dreaming, but the lucidity was incomplete, which led to a variant of
    such a dream, called an OBE of out-of-body experience.  At least that's
    the explanation favored by Stephen LaBerge, Ph.D, of Stanford University
    Sleep Research Center and discussed in detail in his book "Lucid Dream-
    ing." 
    
    The reason you were "...screaming at the top of your lungs, but nothing
    would come out" was, as you said, because you "...had no voice."  And
    you had no voice because your mouth was actually closed.  It couldn't
    be opened because your muscles were paralyzed.  Everyone (except for
    those with a sleep disorder) has large muscle paralysis during REM or
    rapid eye movement (dreaming) sleep. 
    
    LaBerge says that OBS or out-of-body sensation would be a more accurate
    term for this experience.  You feel like you're out of your body or
    that your body has moved to another place, but this is a mental, not a
    physical experience.  Many others have shared your dilemma and also 
    your sense of great speed.  There are many variations of OBEs.  Here
    is Sylvan Muldoon, the author of "The Projection of the Astral Body,"
    describing his first experience at age 12:
    
         "...I knew not what was taking place...[there were] a pandemonium
         of bizarre sensations - floating, vibratory, zigzagging and head-
         pulling...Going from one room to another I tried fervently to a-
         rouse the sleeping occupants of the house.  I clutched at them,
         called to them, tried to shake them, but my hands passed through
         them as though they were but vapors.  I started to cry.  I wanted
         them to see me, but they could not even feel my presence."
    
    Oliver Fox who, like Muldoon, was an adept at what we now call OBEs,
    describes a variety of experiences is his book "Astral Projection."
    Except for a memorable attempt to move when paralyzed, Fox had a
    much more pleasant time of it than Muldoon.  Fox says that occasionally
    he was "...just a *consciousness*, a man invisible even to himself, 
    passing through busy streets or whizzing through space."  Sometimes
    he shot back into his body at "amazing speed" and at other times, 
    "gently."  Here's his first attempt at "skrying":
    
         "[I] left my body - and passed out into the garden...I stood
    erect, arms at my sides, and ...willed to ascend.  The effect was
    truly surprising.  Instantly the earth fell from my feet - that was
    how it seemed to me, because of the suddenness and speed of my as-
    cent.  I looked down upon my home, now no bigger than a matchbox;
    the streets were now only thick lines separating the houses.  Soon
    the earth was hidden by white clouds.  Up and up and up.  Velocity
    ever increasing....I willed to descend.  Instantly the process was
    reversed; the sky grew blue again; earth came into sight through
    the fleecy veil of clouds and rose up to meet my feet.  I passed again
    into the house and gently entered my body.  I then experienced a touch
    of catalepsy [paralysis] and had the illusion that my wife was embrac-
    ing me, trying desperately to bring me back to life.  Actually she was
    not in the house...I broke the trance without much difficulty and rose
    from the bed."
    
    It's not uncommon for people to have an OBE only once.  So I don't
    think that it's necessary for you to sleep on your back to avoid them.
    Movies of sleepers show that there's a good deal of movement during
    sleep.  It's possible that you've already slept on your back many
    times, but that you've removed before you've awakened, leading you to
    believe that you've been in that position all along.  
      
    Virginia           
       
    
    

    
    re: .4
    
    See note 1232.7 for Fox's experience of trying to wake up when
    he's still paralyzed.
    
    Virginia
    

    Virginia,
    
    Thank you for the feedback about my OBE...WOW is all I can say! That is
    the first and last time I have ever had one, and it will stick
    prominent in my "dream diary" forever.  It was quite an extraordinary
    experience.  I read that if you are in flight and your "cord" gets cut
    another spirit can invade your physcal body?

    Re: 9
    Most of my dreams are pleasent ones, of everyday matter, once in a
    rarity I will have one that is pretty disturbing, and I can see why I
    was very disturbed when I had the OBE!!! Is that part of me that was
    flying the equivilant to a ghost?
    
    
    Now I am really not going to sleep ;-)

    
    Re.9
    
    Fascinating!  Thanks for entering that, wal.
    
    Cindy

     I seem to have these kind of dreams (obe?) a lot. Especially lately.
    I try to ride with it, but it feels so strange that it's sometime
    frightening. Could there be a reason for having these often? And could
    this be something to worry about?  I also find that i am very concious
    of what is happening, but i can't bring myself out of it. I think that
    is what is scaring me the most. Should this be something I should
    explore more while it's happening? Any insight would be appreciated.
    
    Shawna

    re: .6
    
    Cliff,
    
    You asked what the difference was between a dream of flying, lucid
    dreaming, and an OBE.  
    
    I think that "flying" refers to dream content rather than to dream
    type.  "Falling" is a similar category of content.  "Flying" tells
    you what you're doing.  It doesn't indicate whether you're conscious
    or not or, if conscious, where your consciousness is located.  You
    could be flying in a regular (non-lucid) dream, in a lucid dream, or
    in an OBE. 
    
    In a regular, non-lucid dream, you're unconscious as you're dreaming.
    You remember the dream after you wake up. 
    
    In a lucid dream you become conscious during the dream, just as con-
    scious as you are now.  You're still asleep, but you're also conscious,
    and you know that you're dreaming.  Your consciousness is where you
    are - in this instance, in your bed.  You can change the content of the
    dream by willing it to change.
    
    OBEs, like the two previous examples, are preceded by a state of un-
    consciousness.  Then, as in a lucid dream, you become lucid or con-
    scious, even though you're still asleep.  But this time your conscious-
    ness, the "you", is not in the place in which your sleeping body ap-
    pears to be located.  You're not in the bed.  You're often floating
    upwards toward the ceiling, or looking back down on your body in the
    bed.  This leads to the erroneous conclusion that there are either
    two of you, one sleeping and the other one watching you sleep, or that
    you have separated from your body and are now independent of it.  (Some
    people see one body attached to the other by a cord, which is a more
    dependent version of the experience.)  Your consciousness is still 
    where you are - in your sleeping body.  But it appears to be in the
    body in the air; and you can will that body to move around, just as
    you could make changes in the material of the lucid dream.  Are you
    really moving around in the air or, perhaps, flying off to another
    place?  No, this is a subjective experience; it's taking place in your
    brain, the brain that's sleeping on the bed.  But what about that body
    that you see sleeping down there?  It's not a real body. It's a mental
    representation of a body.  Are we sure that OBEs are subjective?  No,
    but we think so.
    
    OBEs are also reported by people who have undergone physical traumas,
    such as severe accidents.  They sometimes watch from above - or so
    they think - as their injured bodies are being worked on and carried  
    away.
    
    How would you classify the Doberman dream? 
    
                        
    
    re: .8
    
    You wanted to know if another spirit could invade a physical body
    if the "cord" was cut.  Well, if what I said above is true, then
    cutting the cord wouldn't make any difference, because it isn't a
    real cord.  It's just a representation of a cord.  Sylvan Muldoon,
    who I mentioned earlier, not only saw a cord, he wrote about it at
    length.  He perceived it as elastic, ranging in diameter from the
    size of a silver dollar to (when greatly extended) that of a cob-
    web.  He believed that its purpose was to "..deliver the 'breath of
    life' to the physical, while the finer body is projected."  
    
    
    Virginia            
      
    
     
     

    Wal,
    
    Thank you for the incredible input!! I admit when it happened, it
    really disturbed me because it was so unbeleivalbly strange, I never in
    my life had anything happened to me like that!! It was a pretty simple
    OBE just occurred in my bedroom, and the weird thing is I was so
    concious and aware of everything around me, I was so aware of the speed
    that I was flying (VERY fast), and very aware of trying to tell my
    folks that I was having a bad dream! When I was flying I could actually
    feel the wind blowing through my hair, is there an explaination of
    that??
    
    
    Thanks!!

    Wal,
    
    Thanks for the insight. This happened again  three consecutive times
    yesterday, and I'm very aware of whats happening when it does. I just
    can't seem to relax. I'd like to explore it more,but I don't seem to
    be able to harness it. I'll try relaxing more next time (which at the
    rate it's going will be tonight) It's just curious that there is this
    sudden onslaught of theses occurances. Could this be attributed to
    whats happening on my concious life right now? 
    
    I don't know if this was a dream or not, but the third sensation of
    this, I was sitting up and asked my roomate if i was actually sitting
    up or still sleeping.  She started to freak out because there was two 
    of me. I looked behind me and was still lying on the floor sleeping.
    It was a really weird sensation. This seems to be more like lucid
    dreaming in this case because my roomate was not there in reality.
    This is not the first incident of seeing my self sleeping.
    
    I'll try a little more experimentation with it next.
    
    
    Shawna_who_just_wants_to_understand
    
    P.s. Wal are you serious about he guru, didn't know cuz of the smiley
    :-)

    Re:19
    
    Your roomate seen two of you? Kind of like a ghost?? Now I am freaking
    out! WOW!

    Nope .....no fan, did not have one in my room back then....and it 
    was in the winter time.........pretty wild I say!

     Thanks for the reply Wal. Right now in my life I have no problems
    laughing and having fun though. I have an extremely active social life, 
    and generally am a real happy person.  Maybe it is something with the
    planets.
    
    
    Shawna
    
    P.s. My roomate didn't actually see two of me, I saw her seeing two of
    me in my dream, if she saw two of me in reality, i would really freak
    too.

    re: .2 by GIAMEM::ROSE
    
    Actually, none of what you said "rings a bell" with me. I don't know
    where you come up with this stuff.
    
    It might be interesting to note that, at the time, my father was an
    insurance salesman, among other things, but build a bridge? shouting ?
    
    Whew! 
    
    
    
    Now the part about the mummy's gender, HEY you've got me thinking about
    that one. In my mind's eye, I still have a very vivid image of the
    mummy, and I must admit, the physique is somewhat androgynous. I just
    always felt it was masculine.
    
    But if you're going to say   mummy=mommy   , I mean, WOW, jeez, what an
    amazing insight.
    
    I'm sure the rest of you contributors find it revelatory. No?

    
    
    re: .28  HAMER::MONTALVO
    
                Can one enter any of these states at will or by acident?
    
                Does one need to go through the low order (1,2,3) before
                reaching the high order (5,6,7)?
    
                Can you comment on the 7th? A dream of the void... How
                would one know that one had actually dreamed at all?
    
                               Later,
                                Mark