Conference hydra::dejavu

    
    It has nothing to do with hypnosis or circumventing the 'born again'
    Christian miracle.  (;^)
    
    It's a breathing technique.
    
    Cindy

    Cindy,
    
    I recall Don Reinke mentioning that his brother John (who lives in
    the Seattle area) was very involved in *rebirthing* at one time.
    You might want to ask him about it.
    
    Ro
    

    Cindy,
    
    I have read several books on Rebirthing by Sondra Ray.  She also
    started a program called Loving Relationships Training (LRT), which
    continues the Rebirthing process.  
    
    Leonard Orr is the gentleman that started the process, and I believe
    that he has also written a couple of books too.  Bob Mandela? is also
    involved, along with his wife in both the Rebirthing and LRT - they
    also have written some books.  
    
    I need to check on the titles over the weekend, and I will try to post
    them for you next week.
    
    I have not had the chance to be "Rebirthed", but it is something I have
    on my "to do" list.
    
    I just started reading another book that seems to be similar to
    Rebirthing called  "BREATHING EXPANDING YOUR POWER & ENERGY" by Michael
    Sky.
    
    "This book desribes a breathing practice ("circular breathing") that can
    be greatly empowering and that is especially suited for self-healing. 
    Fifteen years of working with circular breathing - personally and
    professionally - has led the author to conclude that for all it's
    power, it is an inherently safe practice.  Nonetheless, it sometimes
    initiatesa process that can be physically and/or emotionally intense
    and quite upsetting.  Thus, the reader should approach circular
    breathing with gentle caution."
    
    
    published by: Bear & Company, Inc.
    
    ISBN 0-939680-82-3
    
    
    
    Michael Sky, author of "Dancing with the Fire", travels widely, leading
    workshops in the exploration of breathing, firewalking, bodywork, and
    the effective use of ritual. 
    
    
    Susan
    
      
    
    

    
    Cindy,
    
    Stan and Christina Grof have developed (I believe) a technique called
    'Holotropic Breathwork'.  You might find some info about it in their
    books (Seven Stars carries them) or you could write to them about it.
    
    Carole

    I did one rebirthing workshop.  I re-experienced a recurring incident
    from my infancy which was quite formative to my personality.  This was
    very useful to me; it led me to understand myself much better and to be
    more free.  I had imposed constraints on myself as an infant, and could
    as an adult undo them.
    
    The re-experience is not like dreaming.   If you have ever experienced
    your inner child, with her emotional needs and her voice, that is more
    what it is like.  Of course, in re-experiencing infancy, you speak in
    your adult voice since you didn't speak as an infant, but the emotions
    are the original ones.  There is some filtering through the adult mind,
    of course, but it would be very hard to tease apart the strands of the
    childhood memory and the adult thoughts about it.
    
    It is indeed a very powerful technique which can be very beneficial. 
    It is also frightening since you relinquish your usual adult self
    controls.  You reexperience the helplessness, dependency, fears, anger,
    pain, etc. of infancy.  You also can see decisions you made and later
    forgot about, that became part of you, for better or worse.  
    
    It is not like hallucinating.  You have a sort of dual experience
    simultaneously, of the childhood memory which you are reliving, and of
    your current self and surroundings.
    
    It is important to do this with someone trustworthy because you are
    relying on them to help you through and "bring you back".  It is also
    important to do this at a time in your life when you can trust yourself
    to cope with it.  Your companion/therapist is also important in that
    he/she can interpret and support further growth.
    
    Their goal is to do this repeatedly until you reexperience your birth,
    or "rebirth".  Since many births are physically and psychologically
    traumatic, this can be very beneficial.  It is like peeling an onion,
    back through the layers of character formation.  I was not comfortable
    pursuing it this far.  
    
    By the way, as a reality check I went over the details with my mother. 
    I was amazed that she verified the layout of the room as I described it
    (we moved out of that apartment when I was a baby), and the scenario I
    described.  My parents had never previously told me about either one.
    This led me to believe that it was a real memory, and not something I
    recreated from stores I was told growing up.
    
    An additional benefit of this process was that I understood my parents
    better, could better forgive them, and felt closer to them.  It was
    like looking through a telescope and seeing the young, frightened,
    struggling couple trying to build a life after the war, rather than MY
    PARENTS about whom I had lots of upset and judgements.  I could have
    more sympathy and kindness toward them.  I guess that was my adult self
    looking out through my infant self's eyes.
    
    I would definitely classify this as a therapy - a strong one - and not
    a parlor game or a "feel good" "new-age" technique.  Again, in going
    into this I would very carefully select the therapist or counsellor.
    
    It is interesting to see how things ripple out over the years, from
    generation to generation.  My father's war experiences marked him
    deeply.  My experiences of HIM after the war affected me.  If I had not
    done the rebirthing, my resultant decisions would have stayed in place,
    permanently shaping my personality, and affecting MY children.
    
    Laura

    
    Thanks everybody!
    
    I went through this experience myself a short time ago, and am still
    reflecting upon it.  It was excellent.  When I sort through it all,
    I'll try to enter more about my own experience - it is similar to what
    Laura wrote in .5.  The workshop had 150 people in it, and every person 
    benefitted a great deal from the experience.
    
    I look forward to checking into the other sources of material. 
    Circular breathing is the key.  Apparently it blocks off the mind
    chatter enough to allow the subconscious issues to become conscious,
    and subsequently get resolved/integrated.  Very powerful, and very
    effective.  I highly recommend it.  
    
    Cindy

    
    
    	What is circular breathing?  
    
    	Craig
    
    

    
    It is continuous breathing (inhale, exhale) without any pauses.
    
    Cindy

    
    Re: circular breathing
    
    I think that might also be the technique used in holotropic
    breathwork.  Will have to check that one out.
    
    Carole

    Hi again, Cindy!

I was "rebirthed" (by the same yoga teacher I went to Kripalu with!)
and witnessed a few spontaneous rebirthings (one of them mine).  
Mine were not particularly deep experiences, but that's par for the 
course with me.  I did have some insights.

I was interested in the process - the breathing technique.  The
circular breathing is exactly as Cindy described - continuous breathing
with NO pause on the exhale.  As I was doing it, I realized this is
sort of a controlled hyperventilation - i.e. overoxygenating the blood
without the panic and gasping - the rebirther is there to reassure you
and keep the breathing continuous.  It does seem to be a way to
_deliberately_ open the door to the unconscious (or subconscious) 
by removing the conscious "blocks" or barricades behind which we hide
the things we don't want to see or be reminded of.  What pops out may
be nice or not-so-nice at any given time - I suppose whatever happens 
to be at the doorway at the time and how you look at it.  (I wonder if the
unconscious is LIFO (last in, first out), FIFO (first in, first out),
or MIFO (MOST in, first out - i.e. what you've repressed the most)???)  
And the rebirther is there to facilitate or support as you confront, accept, 
acknowledge, or whatever you need to do with what you find.

Anyway, just my experience and thoughts...I appreciated reading the other
replies - thanks!

				Jean

    
    I would really like to try this circular breathing.  I am curious
    to see how you *don't* start to hyperventilate (an experience I
    have had and one that I don't want to repeat!).
    
    Carole

Sorry - my mistake.  I somehow had always thought hyperventilation
involved super-oxygenating the blood.  I just looked it up and from what
I found I RETRACT my statement in .10 that conjectures that the
circular breathing is like contolled hyperventilation.  The dictionary says
for hyperventilation:

	"excessive rate and depth of respiration leading to 
	*abnormal loss of carbon dioxide from the blood*"  (asterisks mine)

which is certainly going to change the proportion of CO2 to O2 in the blood,
but not necessarily super-oxygenate it.  With the circular breathing, you
breath at a normal rate & depth, but you don't pause at the end of the 
exhalation.  So you AREN'T hyperventilating.  My apologies for not checking
my terms beforehand.

I'm still curious about what does happen physiologically.  Whether it is
the extra oxygen that I still imagine is getting into the blood or how
the diaphragm is in constant motion (no "stillpoint" at the end of the
breath) or what that makes those barriers or blocks come "tumbling down"...?
Anybody know?

					Jean

    
    My experience was also during my recent trip to Kripalu.
    
    There was a doctor there who had been through the process before, and
    assured those who were not quite at ease with the idea, that it was
    quite safe.  Kripalu is one of those places where if you don't want to
    do something, then you don't have to. 
    
    I spoke with the doctor later on, and she couldn't really explain *why*
    it worked, but she did offer a sort-of explanation based on her own
    experience.   By breathing in that way, the mind doesn't have a chance
    to interrupt the connection between the conscious and the
    sub/unconscious, so you can get to the 'feeling' level in the body. 
    You actually experience the emotions of the unfinished/unresolved
    issues, and then the experience is complete/integrated.   
    
    [For those interested in techie terms (Joel) (;^), this isn't going to 
    be exactly letter-perfect, so please, no nits.]
    
    Carole - just as you feel you might hyperventilate, is the point where
    I popped into a higher state of awareness and felt this rush of
    sensations throughout my body.  Parts of my body went into something
    called Tetne (not sure if this is the way it's spelled), which is when
    you have no conscious/mind control over parts of the body.  My hands 
    contracted and folded over, and resembled the hands of some people who 
    suffer from one of the diseases where the mind no longer has control over 
    a portion of the body.  The doctor explained that this was what was 
    happening - when suspending the mind through this kind of breathing, 
    the body does what it feels like doing.  In this state, you become an 
    observer of your body, within your body, and explore the sensations 
    (and breathe into them to see what messages you receive).  To regulate 
    the experience - you intensify it by breathing rapidly, and slow it
    down by breathing slowly.  
    
    Cindy

    
    Jean - an interesting experience, wasn't it!  (;^)
    
    Cindy

    Re: .13
    
    Hi Miss Cindy,
    
    FWIW--the term is spelled tetany. (At least it was back in the Dark Ages
    when I took Medic training.) The spontaneous contractions of these
    muscles turn manual control into mudra-matic. 8^)
    
    -Art- 

         
    Thanks Art!
    
    Cindy

    It  sounds too simple! How long do you have to keep it up before
    "something' happens?
    
    
    Kind of reminds me of Janov's Primal Scream therapy. That involved
    several weeks of "intensive" for several thousand bucks. The technique
    apparently was to scream mommy-mommy until you regressed.
    
    john

    RE:  .17
    
    It takes a few minutes of breathing to get started.  It's been a long
    time, but I think it was no more than 20 minutes.
    
    I don't know much about Janov's Primal Screen, but I believe there is
    some resemblance in the techniques.  Did you know one of John Lennon's
    songs was based on his expererience with "primaling"?  Its the song
    with the words "Mother I never left you, but you left me."  He even
    does a bit of the screaming in the song.  I find it very moving.
    
    As for Rebirthing being "mass produced" it depends entirely on the
    person who is your companion/guide and their qualifications, along with
    your trust in him/her.  Regardless of the sponsoring group.
    
    Laura
                                                        

    
    Re.17
    
    John,
    
    Yes, it only takes about 10-20 minutes maximum.  My partner went first,
    so I had the benefit of observing the process.  Subsequently, it took
    me about 30 inhalations.  
    
    The technique was part of the Inner Quest Intensive, which was around
    $330.00 for three nights and four days, including everything (meals,
    dorm accomodations, etc.).  However, I taught the technique to a friend
    over the weekend, in 15 minutes, so it isn't something you have to
    necessarily pay for.  Training on the technique itself only took one
    afternoon of the four days.
    
    I just located my Vivation brochure, and the number to call to find
    Vivation specialists in your area is 1-800-829-2625.  To obtain a copy
    of the brochure, send $3.00 to:
    
       Vivation
       c/o Linda Jackson
       P.O. Box 1065
       Stockbridge, MA  01262
    
    Make checks payable to Linda Jackson.
    
    It really is that simple.  If I hadn't gone through the experience, I
    wouldn't have believed it either.  I'm using the technique every night
    before going to sleep, and it is working wonders.  It's difficult to
    describe the experience, because it's different every time.
    
    Cindy

    Cindy taught me the breathing technique while driving back from a
    noter's party. While I haven't experienced all of what she has told me
    happened, I have used it and found that not only does it clear my mind
    and leave my thinking processes open to anything, it also leaves my
    body with a wonderful cleansed feeling internally and my lungs feel
    positively air-conditioned by it. 
    
    As a person who is not really versed in Yoga techniques, I can only
    imagine what happens to anyone who is well practiced in these
    disciplines. (If that is the right word) I can vouch that Cindy was
    clear headed, really directed in her thoughts, and seemed to be so open
    to all Creation and all that it had to offer. 
    
    Cindy, if I haven't yet, let me thank you for the technique and thank
    you for letting me share just a little of the joy you seemed to be
    experiencing that weekend. Oh yeah, Diane Harris says Hi.
    
    Love and light,
    
    PJ

    Yesterday, I purchased sondra Ray and Leonard Orr's book Rebirthing in
    the New Age. I never would have puchased a gee whiz type book like this
    if I hadn't become intrigued with the ideas expressed here.
    
    Apparently it is an extremely simple process based on a few basic
    principles.
    
    1) Suggestion. They have you do some readings about birth.
    
    2)Protection.  The rebirther is to make you feel completely safe.
    
    3)Hyperventilation to break down the defense mechanism.
    
    I suspect that using the technique partially or just to play around
    with may result in the modification of the defense mechanisms with  the
    result that it could become much more difficult to accomplish. birht
    trauma apparently is at the foundation of the defense mechanisms so
    working through them causes them to not be needed.
    
    

    Have any rebirthers looked into the birth trauma from Caesarean
    sections, particularly when the section was planned and went smoothly?
    
    I am wondering because my daughter was born this way.  When the uterus
    wall was cut, she practically jumped right out. The atmosphere was very
    calm in the room.  She cried a little while - probably when she was
    being wrapped.  By the time my husband was holding her (within a few
    minutes of her birth), she had her eyes wide open and was staring
    intently at everything.  He held her for a long time and gave her a
    bath.  They checked her out in the nursery, but that was quick.  I held
    her and nursed her not long after she was born.  I was too druggy and
    tired to hold her long, but my husband held her when I couldn't, and it
    wasn't long before we started real nursing.
    
    So her birth didn't seem very traumatic to me, except for a few minutes
    while she was wrapped up, and that's pretty mild stuff compared to many
    births.  Does this mean she won't have a lot of defense mechanisms or
    hangups?  She's certainly a very happy child who's very open to new
    experiences.
    
    My cousin was born this way, also.  He is now 28.  In spite of having a
    rather crazy, domineering Mom, a crazy Dad, and product of a divorce,
    he is remarkably healthy.  He deals with his parents with a measure of
    sarcasm, but has a lot of tenderness and warmth underneath it.
    
    Now I am not advocating C-sections for mental health, but you certainly
    could make the case if you follow the logic through.  If a natural
    birth goes smoothly, and the birth attendants are sensitive to the
    baby, then I guess the baby recovers well.  But so many births are
    difficult in one way or another.
    
    Just a point of curiosity, and taking the logic to its final point.
    
    Laura  

                               
    Thanks PJ! (;^)
    
    John - I'd be interested in reading of your experience if you choose
    to give it a try.  
    
    In the Vivation pamphlet, there isn't the focus on your own birth, nor
    did we talk about it in the afternoon session.  The connection was
    mentioned in passing though.  Probably a variation on a theme.
    
    Cindy

    Are the defense mechanisms discussed built only in the birthing
    process, or from traumas as you get older as well?  In watching my 8
    week old, it would seem that he, at times, still considers life a
    trauma (he has hit the stage where each night he cries for @15-20
    minutes - longer if the day was more "stressfull" for him.  This is
    hard to listen to without wanting to cry myself, but there is nothing
    that will stop his tears of frustration and anger.  A day of trying to
    do things with a body that can only flail is aggrevating to infants). 
    The defenses to these emotions as well may have to be broken through???
    
    This sounds like an interesting experience, especially having just
    spent a lot of time focusing of the birth event.
    
    Beth

    Later traumas are usually added onto the structures started during the
    birth process. But don't allow yourself to be traumatized by a crying
    child! ;^) Modern psychology has overrated traumas importance. What is
    crucial his how people learn to respond to it. In fact, the whole
    concept of rebirthing is to confront the traumas and learn to stop
    defending against them. 
    	 Eight weeks old is a difficult age for the child. His
     opportunities for self stimulation are limited as he cannot turn over
     or crawl yet. Get a carrier and tote him around as much as you can
    stand. YOu must have just started back to work, so the time you have to
    spend with him is limited anyway.
    
    john

    My husband (Sean) isn't working, so he gets to spend all day with him. 
    It's my turn when I go home (of course, for the time being, it's just
    in time for the evening fussies).  But we do carry him around, and
    provide him with visual stimulation (last weekend was spent at a live
    role play event with dark elves and goblins and such wandering past
    him, and last night he and I went for a walk before sunset).  He gets
    stimulation, but he always wants more (he's been an alert child from
    day one).
    
    Thanks (no back to our regularly scheduled topic)
    
    Beth