Conference hydra::dejavu

The book:  Toxic Parents by Dr. Susan Forward
           =============

Table Of Contents
-----------------

Introduction

Part One: Toxic Parents

     One:  Godlike Parents 
		- The Myth of the Perfect Parent

     Two:  "Just Because You Didn't Mean It Doesn't Mean It Didn't Hurt"
		- The Inadequate Parent

   Three:  "Why Can't They Let Me Live My Own Life?"
		- The Controllers

    Four:  "No One In This Family Is an Alcoholic"
		- The Alcoholics

    Five:  The Bruises Are All On The Inside
		- The Verbal Abusers

     Six:  Sometimes the Bruises Are on the Outside, Too
		- The Physical Abusers

   Seven:  The Ultimate Betrayal
		- The Sexual Abusers

   Eight:  Why Do Parents Behave This Way?
		- The Family System


Part Two:  Reclaiming Your Life

    Nine:  You Don't Have To Forgive

     Ten:  "I'm A Grown-Up.  Why Don't I Feel Like One?"

  Eleven:  The Beginnings of Self-Definition

  Twelve:  Who's Really Responsible?

Thirteen:  Confrontation:  The Road to Independence

Fourteen:  Healing the Incest Wound

 Fifteen:  Breaking the Cycle

Epilogue:  Letting Go of the Struggle

================================================================

Notes - Dr. Susan Forward also wrote, "Men Who Hate Women, and
				       Women Who Love Them"

From the back of the book:

	"A dynamic, powerful, hard-hitting book.  It offers 
	 tremendous hope, as well as understanding.  It could
	 truly be a lifesaver."
				- Abigail Van Buren ("Dear Abby")

	"I consider Susan Forward to be among the foremost 
	 therapists of our age.  In "Toxic Parents" she offers
	 us a penetrating model of how to heal the frozen grief
	 of our dysfunctional past..."

				- John Bradshaw 
				  (author of "Bradshaw On: The Family")

{From: "Toxic Parents", by Dr. Susan Forward, p.10,11}

Freeing Yourself from the Legacy of Toxic Parents
-------------------------------------------------

If you are an adult child of toxic parents, there are many things you 
can do to free yourself from their distorted legacy of guilt and self-doubt.
And I want you to proceed with a great deal of hope.  Not deluded hope
that your parents will magically change, but the realistic hope that you 
CAN psychologically unhook from the powerful and destructive influence of
your parents.  You just have to find the courage.  It is within you.

...

"Aren't I Supposed to Be Responsible for the Way I Am?
------------------------------------------------------

By now you may be thinking, "Wait a minute, Susan.  Almost all the other
books and experts say I can't blame anybody else from my problems."

Balony.  Your parents are accountable for what they did.  Of course, you
are responsible for your adult life, but that life was largely shaped by
experiences over which you had no control.  The fact is:

	- You are *NOT* responsible for what was done to you
	  as a defenseless child!!!

	- You *ARE* responsible for taking positive steps to
	  do something about it now!
...

The process of diminishing the negative power of your parents is a
gradual one.  But it will eventually release your inner strength, the 
self that's been hiding all these years, the unique and loving person
you were meant to be.  Together we'll help free that person so that
your life can finally be your own.

{From, "Toxic Parents", by Dr. Susan Forward, p.47}

It's What They Didn't Do That Hurts
-----------------------------------

It's easy to recognize abuse when a parent beats a child or subjects a
child to continual tirades.  But the toxicity of inadequate or deficient
parents can be elusive, difficult to define.  When a parent creates
damage through omission rather than commission - through what they *don't*
do rather than what they *do* do - the connections of adult problems to
this sort of toxic parent become very hard to see.  Since the children of
these parents are predisposed to deny their connections anyway, my job
becomes especially difficult.

Compounding the problem is the fact that many of these parents are so 
troubled themselves that they evoke pity.  Because these parents so often
behave like helpless or irresponsible children, their adult children feel
protective.  They jump to their parent's defense, like a crime victim
apologizing for the perpetrator.

Whether it's "they didn't mean to do any harm," or "they did the best
they could,", these apologies obscure the fact that these parents abdicated
their responsibilities to their children.  Through this abdication, these
toxic parents robbed their children of positive role models, without which
healthy emotional development is extremely difficult.

If you are the adult child of a deficient or inadequate parent, you 
probably grew up without realizing that there was an alternative to feeling
responsible for them.  Dancing at the end of their emotional string seemed
a way of life, not a choice.

But you *do* have a choice.  You can begin the process of understanding that
you were wrongly forced to grow up too soon, that you were robbed of your
rightful childhood.  You can work on accepting how much of your life's
energy had gone down the drain of misplaced responsibility.  Take this first
step and you'll find a new reserve of energy that is suddenly available to
you for the first time - energy that you've exhausted on your toxic parents
much of your life, but which can finally be used to help you become more
loving and responsible to yourself.

{From: "Toxic Parents", by Dr. Susan Forward, p.187-189}

From Chapter Nine - You Don't Have to Forgive
---------------------------------------------

At this point you may be asking yourself, "Isn't the first step to forgive 
my parents?"  My answer is *NO*.  This may shock, anger, dismay or confuse 
many of you.  Most of us have been led to believe exactly the opposite - 
that forgiveness is the first step toward healing.

IN FACT, IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO FORGIVE YOUR PARENTS IN ORDER TO FEEL 
BETTER ABOUT YOURSELF AND TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE!

Certainly I'm aware that this flies in the face of some of our most 
cherished religious, spiritual, philosophical, and psychological 
principles.  According to the Judeo-Christian ethic, "To err is human, to 
forgive divine."  I am also aware that there are many experts in the 
various helping professions who sincerely believe that forgiveness is not 
only the *first* stop but often the *only* step necessary for inner peace.  
I disagree completely.

Early in my professional career I too believed that to forgive people who 
had injured you, especially parents, was an important part of the healing 
process.  I often encouraged clients - many of whom had been severely 
mistreated - to forgive cruel or abusive parents.  In addition, many of my 
clients entered therapy claiming to have already forgiven their toxic 
parents, but I discovered that, more often that not, they didn't feel any 
better for having forgiven.  They still felt bad about themselves.  They 
still had their symptoms.  Forgiving hadn't created any significant or 
lasting changes for them.  In fact, some of them felt even *more* 
inadequate.  They'd say things such as: "Maybe I didn't forgive enough" ; 
"My minister said I didn't truly forgive in my heart"; or, "Can't I do 
anything right?"

I took a long, hard look at the concept of forgiveness.  I began to wonder 
if it could actually *impede* progress rather than *enhance* it.

I cane to realize that there are two facets to forgiveness: giving up the 
need for revenge, and absolving the guilty party of responsibility.  I 
didn't have much trouble accepting the idea that people have to let go of 
the need to get even.  Revenge is a very normal but negative motivation.  
It bogs you down in obsessive fantasies about striking back to get 
satisfaction; it creates a lot of frustration and unhappiness; it works 
against your emotional well-being.  Despite how sweet revenge may feel for 
a moment, it keeps stirring up the emotional chaos between you and your 
parents, wasting precious time and energy.  Letting go of your need for 
revenge is difficult, but it is clearly a healthy step.

But the other facet of forgiveness was not as clear-cut.  I felt there was 
something wrong with unquestioningly absolving someone of his rightful 
responsibility, particularly if he had severely mistreated an innocent 
child.  Why in the world should you "pardon" a father who terrorized and 
battered you, who made your childhood a living hell?  How are you supposed 
to "overlook" the fact that you had to come home to a dark house and nurse 
your drunken mother almost every day?  And do you really have to "forgive" 
a father who raped you at the age of 7?

The more I thought about it, the more I realized that this absolution was 
really another form of denial: "If I forgive you, we can pretend that what 
happened wasn't so terrible."  I came to realize that this aspect of 
forgiveness was actually preventing a lot of people from getting on with 
their lives.

{From: "Toxic Parents" by Dr. Susan Forward, p.189-190}

From Chapter Nine - The Forgiveness Trap
----------------------------------------

One of the most dangerous things about forgiveness is that it undercuts
your ability to let go of your pent-up emotions.  How can you acknowledge 
your anger against a parent whom you've already forgiven?  Responsibility 
can go only one of two places: outward, onto the people who have hurt you, 
or inward, into yourself.  Someone's got to be responsible.  So you may 
forgive your *parents*, but end up hating *yourself* all the more in 
exchange.

I also noticed that many clients rushed to forgiveness to avoid much of the 
painful work of therapy.  They believed that by forgiving they could find a 
shortcut to feeling better.  A handful of them "forgave", left therapy, and 
wound up sinking even deeper into depression or anxiety.

Several of these clients clung to their fantasies:  "All I have to do is 
forgive and I will be healed, I will have wonderful mental health, 
everybody is going to love everybody, we'll hug a lot, and we'll finally be 
happy."  Clients all too often discovered that the empty promise of 
forgiveness had merely set them up for bitter disappointment.  Some of them 
experienced a rush of well-being, but it didn't last because nothing had 
really changed in the way they felt or in their family interactions.

I remember an especially touching session with a client named Stephanie, 
whose experience illustrates some of the typical problems of premature 
forgiveness.  Stephanie, 27, was an extremely devout born-again Christian 
when I met her.  At age 11, Stephanie had been raped by her stepfather.  He 
had continued to abuse her until her mother threw him out of the house (for 
other reasons) a year later.  Over the next four years, Stephanie had been 
molested by several of her mother's many boyfriends.  She ran away from 
home at 16 and became a prostitute.  Seven years later, she was almost 
beaten to death by a client.  While recovering in the hospital Stephanie 
met an orderly who persuaded her to visit his church.  A few years later 
they married and had a son.  She was genuinely attempting to rebuild her 
life.  But, despite her new family and her new religion, Stephanie was 
miserable.  She spent two years in therapy, but she still couldn't shake 
her intense depression.  That's when she came to me.

I put Stephanie in one of my incest-victims' groups.  In her first session, 
Stephanie assured us that she had made her peace and had forgiven both her 
stepfather and her cold, inadequate mother.  I told her that if she wanted 
to get rid of her depression she might have to "unforgive" for a while, to 
get in touch with her anger.  She insisted she believed deeply in 
forgiveness, that she didn't need to get angry to get better.  A fairly 
intense struggle developed between us, partly because her religious beliefs 
contradicted her psychological needs.

Stephanie did her work dutifully, but she refused to tap in to her rage.  
Little by little, however, she began to have outburst of anger on behalf of 
other people.  For example she embraced another group member, saying, "Your 
father was a monster, I hate him!"  

A few weeks later, her own repressed rage finally came out.  She screamed, 
cursed, and accused her parents of destroying her childhood and crippling 
her adult years.  Afterward, I hugged her as she sobbed.  I could feel her 
body relax.  When she was calmer, I teasingly asked, "What kind of way is 
that for a nice Christian girl to behave?"  I will never forget her reply:

	"I guess God wants me to get better more than He wants me 
	 to forgive."

That night was a turning point for her.

People *can* forgive toxic parents, but they should do it at the conclusion 
- not at the beginning - of their emotional housecleaning.  People *need* 
to get angry about what happened to them.  They need to grieve over the 
fact that they never had the parental love they yearned for.  They need to 
stop diminishing or discounting the damage that was done to them.  Too 
often, "forgive and forget" means "pretend it didn't happen."

I also believe that forgiveness is appropriate only when parents do 
something to *earn* it.  Toxic parents, especially the more abusive ones, 
need to acknowledge what happened, take responsibility, and show a 
willingness to make amends.  If you unilaterally absolve your parents who 
*continue* to treat you badly, who deny much of your reality and feelings, 
and who continue to project blame onto you, you may seriously impede the 
emotional work you need to do.  If one or both parents are dead, you can 
heal the damage, by forgiving *yourself* and releasing much of the hold 
that they had over your emotional well-being.

At this point, you may be wondering, understandably, if you will remain 
bitter and angry for the rest of your life if you don't forgive your 
parents.  In fact, quite the opposite is true.  What I have seen over the 
years is that emotional and mental peace comes as a result of releasing 
yourself from your toxic parents' control, without necessarily having to 
forgive them.  And that release can come only after you've worked through 
your intense feelings of outrage and grief and after you've put the 
responsibility on *their* shoulders, where it belongs.

    Cindy,
    
      This may surprise you but I agree eith this author (to a point of
    course). The forgive and forget thing is not the be-all and end-all of
    emotional/spiritual healing. I believe that responsibility for hurts
    must be taken by the victimizer, not the victim. I also believe that
    true, total forgiveness cannot be achieved until things are worked out
    in each individual, and then between the individuals, each taking
    responsibility for their deeds/attitudes, etc. 
    
        Forgiveness must be preceded by repentance. There are times when I
    choose not to hold something against an unthinking, unfeeling person
    but it is not the same as forgiveness, it's more like a kind of grace 
    extended toward the offender. 
    
      My thoughts are fuzzy this morning, maybe more later. Remeber though,
    forgiveness is a good thing when it is done in its proper timing.
    
    Gil

    
    Well said, Gil.  I concur.
    
    Cindy

       Lest I be considered a sheep of some kind, this is just a little
    reply stating that I agree with lots, but disagree with a bunch of the
    excerpts you printed out of the book.  I do NOT, however, wish to spend
    my time responding in depth right now...maybe some other day/time.
    
    Frederick
    

    
    Frederick,
    
    You're always welcome to enlighten us with your knowledge of the levels
    beyond.  I'll listen.
    
    Cindy

    re: Cindy
    
         You're always fun, Cindy!  :-)
    
         I started to get defensive when I read this, but got a phone
    call while it was on my screen, and then I've somehow managed to see
    the humor in this little scene.  There's Frederick, putting something
    down, or watering it down somehow...then there's Condy-roo, holding
    in her anger (tongue-in-cheek) by saying "Okay, if you're so smart,
    show us."  Funny little situation, huh?  Sitcom material.
    
         I'm not sure of the way out, however.  All I wanted to do was to
    say, yeah, her stuff is good (about forgiveness) but that there is
    something I can add or say to various parts...BUT, BUT, BUT...
    It's more complicated than I care to spend my time writing about
    right now, that's all.  As the writer notes, she was conducting therapy
    originally holding a certain set of beliefs.  She changed her beliefs,
    changed her therapy and is now writing (has written) a book from that
    perspective.  I hold that she is LIKELY to grow yet another level and
    will change and will conduct therapy from a more comprehensive point of
    reference.  All I will say is that my "BUT..." is about some things
    that I am aware of that go beyond her present conclusions.  These
    things are not simple to discuss.  What she says will work TO A LEVEL.
    Just like AA (or any 12-step program) will work toward THAT level.
    All I felt like doing, and I haven't participated much in DEJAVU this
    year, is saying that I can chew but not swallow this material.  It's
    good thinking, it thinks beyond the blind acceptance of religious
    teaching, but there is a layer beyond which she hasn't unfolded yet.
    (And there are probably layers beyond, of which I haven't gotten even
    the foggiest ideas about...this fog I *do* have ideas about.)
         So, I will take time to position myself, but I will not take time
    to answer this right now.  That's how I want it right now.  
    Cherchez la femme.  Ou est la porte?  Mon dieu, quel fromage!
    
    Frederick
    

    Frederick,
    
    Keep in mind that she has to have written more than Cindy entered.
    And that Cindy entered what *Cindy* thought was either best ior
    most interesting ior newest ior most useful ior....
    
    							Ann B.

            
    Now Freddie, you didn't really think I'd let you get away with that,
    now did you?  Hey hey? 
    
    (;^P  There - the tongue is out of my cheek now.  
    
    Cindy

                                             
    PS.  Quit projecting anger into me where there is none.
    
    (;^)  Except in your own mind, of course.
    
    Cindy

    Cindy, It all seems to work in principle. In order to "get better" you
    should direct your anger away from yourself and towards the responsible
    party, thereby losing your "guilt" and reaching a catharsis of sorts.
    I don't see it working like this for everyone. Some people can't "get
    better"" unless they forgive the offending party. It does make for
    interesting NOTING, however. I do think I will pick the book up. 
    
    This, of course, is IMveryHO as I have no clinical training whatsoever.
    Also, I was never abused or molested as a child. I was sort of left on
    my own. My Mother had to work long hours to support us. My Father had a
    stroke when I was 11 and although he wasn't completely disabled, He
    couldn't work and really be a Father to us. He also lingered and got
    progressivly worse over the 17 years that he lasted. Hmmm Maybe
    somwhere deep inside I blame him for not being a Father ;-)
    
    
    
                                      Phil

    re: .13 (Condy-roo)
    
         Cindy, Cindy, Cindy!!  By now, after nearly three years,
    you certainly know that I have anger and that I express it!
    
    
    re: .14 (Phil)
    
         There are some fairly astute comments in there, I think.
    You are close to saying one of the things I believe is true.  That
    guilt is one of the main motivators behind the forgiveness issue.
    My friend Lazaris has defined guilt (which he contends is not a real
    emotion--real emotions have both positive and negative potentials,
    artificial emotions only have negative outcomes) as ANGER we DON'T
    feel we have a RIGHT TO.  Further, that guilt cannot be processed.
    Guilt must be converted into anger which in turn CAN be processed.
    For the sake of this particular discussion, let us say you feel guilt
    over forgiving someone.  You can't process the guilt.  You're stuck.
    Then someone comes along and says you don't need to forgive them.
    The guilt goes away.  The hidden anger emerges.  The relief is at
    hand.  But then comes the results of not forgiving.  And that's where
    this little scenario screeches to a halt.  ULTIMATELY, forgiving
    must occur, whether in this lifetime or some other.
    
    Frederick
    

Frederick,

>        .............................. after nearly three years,
>   you certainly know that I have anger and that I express it!
   
Is that righteous anger?? 
Time to give it up, no???

;')
Jay

    re: .16 (Jay)
    
          I should have added a :-)  to that.  It wasn't intended to 
    sound *too* righteous.  It could be, though.  If it is, you are
    correct.  Time to pass on it.  If it's just anger, then it needs
    more work (but probably never eliminated.)
    
    Frederick
    

    re .15 Fred, I am amazed that someone would share my oppinion. I have
    spent years trying to have the opposite oppinion of what anyone else's
    oppinion was. ;-) Basically, I do agree with what your friend has said
    about guilt and anger being intertwined so. What I was trying to say, I
    guess is, that whatever works for an individual is OK and until one
    reaches the point of needing something different to work out repressed
    feelings of anger and guilt about one's parents or anything for that
    matter, then what you do is OK. We all need a "crutch" of some sort.
    
    Whether we blame ourselves or our parents or that damned woodpecker
    that wakes me up in the morning, it's basically "whatever gets you
    through the night is all right." Who did that song anyway?
    
    
    
                                Phil

    
    Re.15
    
    Freddie,
    
    >I have anger and that I express it!
    
    Well then, the book is obviously not for you!  (;^)  
    
    Cindy

    
    Phil,
    
    "Telling the truth is not blame.  It is telling the truth."
    					- Sonia Johnson
    >(;*)
    
    Cindy