Conference hydra::dejavu

    RE: -1
    
    	Anyone who has heard "The Knock of Death" are no longer with us!
    
    (:<)         +......
    

    
    That is not true.   
    
    My Grandmother was very ill and in a coma in the hospital.
    The night before she died, I woke out of a sound sleep
    by hearing three very loud knocks on my front door.  I
    rushed out of bed and went to the door.  But no one was
    there.  I was really frightened by it.  The next night
    I went to the hospital with my Aunt.  After the hospital
    we went over to my Grandmother's house to join the rest
    of the family.  I told my Aunt about the loud knocks 
    that woke me up the night before.  She got very pale and
    looked at me.  I asked what was wrong.  She told me that
    it was the knock of death.  That it can happen a few days
    before or after either way the death of a loved one.  
    
    She told me that she had heard it also, and that she heard
    it when my mother died.  She also told me that my Grandmother's
    sister had heard it too.
    
    The whole thing really scares me.  I have been very hesitant
    even writing about this.
    
    My great grandmother was suppose to have been very clairvoyant
    and it seems that the rest of the women on that side of the 
    family have psychic abilities.
    
    
    I was just wondering if anyone had a more information on it.
    
    
    

    Giving a name to something doesn't, of course, explain it, but this
    sounds like a special case of what is known in psychical
    research/parapsychology as a "crisis apparition".  I've discussed them
    elsewhere in this conference but briefly:
    
    There are consistent stories; many of which have been *very* well
    documented; of people soon-to-die/recently-died/just-died/
    very-close-to-dying appearing in some form (not necessarily visual)
    to friends or relatives.  This can seem either joyful (a last goodbye,
    or a message of triumph over death) or scary (the person *is* dead
    or dying after all) to the person who gets the message.  There is some
    reason to believe that the form that the "apparition" appears in is
    determined by the expectations/beliefs of the people involved -- though
    it is not clear whether it is the recipient's or "sender's" (or both)
    beliefs which matter.  In many cases, the "visit" was recorded when
    the recipient had no knowledge of the visitor's crisis.  In some
    cases, the visitor survived and had a closely corresponding,
    independently recorded, account of the visit.
    
    I find these carefully recorded cases, some of the very best evidence
    for the existence of spontaneous "paranormal" events.
    
    Under this interpretation, your Grandmother, from within her coma,
    came to you to say goodbye and to let you know that even though she
    was "passing on" that she was still OK.  She signalled this in the
    form encouraged by family custom.
    
    Putting on my skeptics hat, for a moment, I could interpret this as
    a reaction -- a way of coping -- with the imminant death of your
    Grandmother, which you knew was coming.  According to this
    interpretation, at some point you had heard of the family "legend" of
    the death knock but had *consciously* forgotten it.  Your subconscious
    used this consciously forgotten, but subconsciously remembered, legend
    to give form to the message it wanted to give your conscious.  The
    result, a clearly heard knock (remember that *all* sound comes through
    the subconscious, and so the subconscious can provide a virtually
    perfect mimacry of real sounds).  This would *not* mean that you are
    crazy -- *anybody* could have a similar experience given the right
    circumstances.
    
    Which interpretation do I believe?  I have no way of deciding -- the
    important thing is that the *message* is the same in both cases: it
    was simply time for your Grandmother to leave this life, she loved you
    and would have wished to say goodbye to you (and perhaps did so).  The
    knock did *not* cause her death, or celebrate her passing from you.  It
    was a message about something which was true, not a threat or something
    to fear.
    
    					Topher

    
     Death doesn't knock: He snatches.  I recall a dream that I once
    had; and in that dream, I saw death sitting at the foot of my bed.
    All through the dream, death followed me around and "I was RUNNING
    big time". Finally I ended up in this building where there were
    elevators; and when I ran around this corner, Death came behind
    me, stopped, and pointed at me: by that time, a lady stepped in
    front of me, and she dropped dead. I in return, pointed back at
    death and rebuked him In the name of Jesus, and he vanished.
    
    
    Lorenzo
    

    I always liked what Leo Buscalia says about death.
    
    "Death says - live now!"
    
    and now back to the base topic.
    
    	- Bill

    re:.0,
    
    I would also echo what Topher said.  (I very much like how you
    explained that by the way, T.C.!)   Since the "Knock of Death" seems
    to be a family idea or myth, I believe your grandmother used that
    as a way to convey something to you -- "a message of love"...not one 
    meant to cause fear.
    
    bless her,
    Karen
              

RE .0

I can understand that it may scare you, but I would agree with Karen and Topher
(both Topher-1 "the believer" and Topher-2 "the sceptic" ;-)) that it's more a
message of love.

I have had a similar experiece: I was "with someone" (in trancelike condition)
on the moment he died. I had been warned by an image of "medieval death" (man
with scythe) in my eyes. It took me quite some time to overcome the loss, but
this moment of sharing meant, and still means, much to me.

Arie

    
    This has been very good feedback and I want to thank you
    all.  I think that Topher has explained it well.
    
    Honestly, I was not aware of the "knock" until after I
    heard it.  Then my Aunt told me that she had heard it
    when my Mother died (her sister).  She mentioned it to
    her Aunt (my grandmother's sister) and she told her that
    it was the Knock of Death.  She also told my Aunt that
    it is their way of saying good bye.   
    
    I am going to talk to my Aunt and try find out more 
    information, if it is something in the family.
    
    The strange part is I had my Cards read, and my psyche
    done at the House of Zodiac several months before.  This
    woman told me that I came from a long line of witches -
    very psychic, but that it frightened me and I refused to
    recognize it.    This could be a whole other notes file....
    do you suppose she know's that I can be quite a bitch? ;-)
    
    I took it all with a grain of salt.
    
    Thanks again everyone.
    
    Jeanne
    
    
    Death scares me.     
    
   

    re: .3
    
    Topher, regarding the well-documented cases of "crisis apparitions":
    
    Besides being well-documented in terms of success-rate, are there
    also well-documented cases of "misses" ?
              
    
    Scooter

    My good friend's grandmother has a "knock of death" experience.  Her
    brother was overseas fighting in a war.  (I'm not sure which one) 
    Apparently he was bury alive in a trench.  The story is that when that
    happen Mabel hear a knocking at the door and noone was there. I think
    it was her brothers why of telling her that something happened.
    
    Denise

    
      My Father is very psychic. When somebody he's close to dies, he
    always knows ahead of time. He always has a dream in which he sees
    the other person. It's never the same place or circumstance, but one
    thing is always the same. The other person talks to him. A short time
    later we hear of the person's death. Always. If it's someone who's sick
    and my father says "I had a dream about so_n_so last night", we always
    ask,"did he talk to you?" If he says no, we relax. If he says yes, we
    can expect a phone call very soon. I can remember at least 10 times
    when this has happened, and I know my mom can remember many more than
    I. 
      Just my experience with the "Knock".
                                          mIkEy Z.