Conference hydra::dejavu

    There's a discussion of it in P.D.Ouspensky's "In Search of the
    Miraculous". My recall would be too vague to be of serious help.
    
    Brian

    
    The Eneagram was a symbol "discovered" by George Ivanovitch Gurdjieff.
    Some of his students theorized that it was the symbol of the Sarmoung
    Brotherhood (or Sarman Brotherhood), who G. was trying to locate
    (and probably did) in his quest for the meaning of _death_. According
    to an Asian tradition, this Brotherhood was one of the repositories
    of Ancient knowledge; knowledge that was essential for the "Harmonious
    Development of Man"...
    
    Basically, the Eneagram is a symbol in were are encoded different
    aspects of this knowledge. G. developed a very interesting "dance",
    whose movements where based on the different arrangements of this
    ancient symbol.
    
    The different arrangements of the Eneagram also represent the different
    "levels" or "aspects" of the human psyche and the inter-relation
    among them.
    
    Perhaps I could be of more help if you could elaborate a little
    more...
    
    
    
    							Paz Profunda
    
    								JSR:.
    

  As stated in .2 the Enneagram is a fundamental symbol of the esoteric
 teachings of G.I.Gurdjieff (the teacher of P.D.Ouspensky), and the origins
 of the enneagram stem from ancient esoteric traditions.  The following quotes
 from "In Search of the Miraculous" underscore its perceived esoteric import:

	"A man may be quite alone in the dessert and he can trace the enneagram
	 in the sand and in it read the eternal laws of the universe..."

	"If two men who have been in different schools meet, they will draw
	 the enneagram and with its help they will be able at once to establish
	 which of them knows more..."

  The enneagram symbol is contructed as a circle with nine equidistant points
 and with lines connecting the points.  The points are numbered as on a clock,
 yet with nine at the top instead of twelve.  The manner and order in which the
 points are connected can represent different "levels" or "octaves" of universal
 order.  The symbol is intended to be considered in motion, instead of as a
 static diagram.

  The first octave, and the most common form of the enneagram, is constructed
 by connecting 9, 3, 6, and back to 9 to form a triangle, and connecting 1,
 4, 2, 8, 5, 7, and back to 1 in that order.  As an octave, the different points
 can be associated with notes in the following way: 9=do, 1=re, 2=mi,
 3=do-of-2nd-octave, 4=fa, 5=sol, 6=do-of-3rd-octave, 7=la, 8=ti, 9=do.

  Many interesting mathematical relationships are embodied by this symbol.
 The number 142857 is considered as the key universal number for "all and
 everything".  Incredibly, if you multiply this number by 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6,
 the series produced will not only always include these same 6 digits, but
 they will always be in the same order yet starting at a different point.
 So, for the enneagram representing each of these octave series, the points
 3, 6, and 9 are always connected to form a triangle, and the other points are
 connected in the following order for each octave: 2nd=*2=285714, 3rd=*3=428571,
 4th=*4=571428, 5th=*5=714285, 6th=*6=857142.

  If you multiply this universal number by 7, then you get 999999 which
 indicates the completion of this Major Octave, and supposedly indicates
 liberation through harmony.  Multiplication by 8 starts an entirely different
 series with implications for life beyond the realized evolution of Earth.
 By the way, the number .142857 is also the value of the repeating series
 for 1/7, which further binds the enneagram into a close association with the
 number seven (in addition to the number nine).

  The diagram can be considered to be in motion from one octave to the next,
 with each movement to the next octave representing evolution.  The diagram
 can also more simply be considered in motion for a single octave, where a
 linear interpretation of the enneagram considers movement from 1 through 9 in
 order, while the interpretation of the underlying esoteric dynamic interaction
 between inner principles proceeds according to the lines between points
 connected according to the universal number 142857 (for the first octave).

  To try to bring single octave enneagrams into motion for you, I will
 enumerate both the linear and inner interpretations of a couple of enneagrams
 which represent these universal relationships as applied to normal activities.
 Descriptions other than the food example are based upon a book by Irmis B.
 Popoff called "The Enneagrama of the Man of Unity", which includes enneagrams
 for nearly forty activites including such things as "Working on Myself",
 "Sewing a Dress", "Overcoming Vandalism", "Making Bread", and "Pregnancy".
 The contention is that *every* activity can be understood according to linear
 and inner interpretations of the universal enneagram symbol with points labeled
 to reflect the contributing aspects for that activity.

  Notice that in each linear interpretation, the points 3, 6, and 9 indicate
 events which somehow extend beyond the scope of the original activity.  To
 progress beyond these 'gaps' in the octave (eg. from mi to fa, sol to la, or
 to complete the octave from ti to do) external "shocks" are required to
 provide energy input from 'do' of another octave.  The wise application of
 appropriate shocks to promote an activity through a complete octave is a
 fundamental goal of the Gurdjieff teachings.


 Enneagram for "The Seed"
 ========================

 LINEAR Interpretation :
 (0/9) Autumn (Passive):The winds or birds of Autumn jostle the seed.
   1.  Seed Falls:	The seed falls from the parent plant and starts a life
			on its own as a separate being in a new environment.
   2.  Seed Dormant :	Once the seed becomes embedded in the earth the winter
			period follows with no changes to the dormant seed.
  (3)  Spring (Active):	The active force of Spring with warmer and moister soil
			"shocks" the dormant seed to awaken it.
   4.  Plant Grows :	The seed grows into a green plant.
   5.  Plant Flowers :	The plant produces flowers.
  (6)  Summer (Neutral):The plant cannot continue to the next stage of self-
			reproduction without a "shock".  Summer and the
			pollinizing agents of wind, bees, and other insects
			act as the neutralizing force, bringing together the
			active and passive elements (male and female).
   7.  Pollination :	The mature female organ in the flower in pollinated.
   8.  New Seed :	A new seed is formed in the receptacle of the flower.
  (9)  Autumn (Passive):The seed cannot by itself fall from the plant.
			Autumn and the seeding agents of wind and birds act as
			the passive force for the active seed.
 INNER Dynamics :
  1-4. The seed must leave the parent plant and fall to earth.  If the seed
	falls on rock or in the sea then no growth will take place.
  4-2. The whole pattern for the form of the new plant is contained within the
	seed.  However, the seed cannot develop into a plant without the
	introduction of outside forces at point (3) which crosses the line 4-2.
  2-8. The ultimate purpose of the seed is to give rise to a new generation of
	seeds.
  8-5. The seed cannot be formed before the plant has flowered; the flowers
	protect the male and female organs and attract insects which act as
	pollinating agents.
  5-7. The heart of the flower is the female organ which must be fertilized to
	complete the cycle of reproduction.  This cannot happen without the
	outside forces at point (6) which crosses the line 5-7.
  7-1. The pollinated female organ produces seeds which must be capable of
	falling away from the parent plant and surviving in the earth.  These
	factors dictate the characteristics of the seed: sweet fruit coverings
	to attract birds, feathery wings so they are easily carried by the wind,
	and hard coatings to keep out the cold.


 Enneagram for "Change in Being"
 ===============================

 LINEAR Interpretation :
 (0/9) Idea :		The idea of the possibility of change in being.
   1.  Wish :		Movement begins with the wish to change.
   2.  Understanding :	Understanding makes clear the necessity for help.
  (3)  Help :		Change is sought with help of sources outside oneself.
   4.  Efforts :	Constant efforts to work result in the right attitude.
   5.  Right Attitude : Reorientation takes place.
  (6)  Grace :		Our prayers are answered.
   7.  Transformation :	A transformation occurs.
   8.  Atonement :	Harmony prevails.
  (9)  Experience :	A change in being is experienced ...
			the idea of the possibility of new changes arises.
 INNER Dynamics :
  1-4. The wish must be strengthened through continued efforts.
  4-2. Understanding radiates from these efforts.
  2-8. Visions of higher values reveal the possibility of change,
	and give us incentive to work.
  8-5. The right attitude is needed to deal with the impermanence of change.
  5-7. Vigilance ensures readiness to meet opportunities for transformation.
  7-1. Energy, released in transformation, fires the wish.


 Enneagram Point Designations for Processing of Food into Energy
 ===============================================================

 LINEAR Interpretation :
 (0/9) Food Ingested
   1.  Digestion
   2.  Breathing
  (3)  Air
   4.  Blood stream
   5.  Brain
  (6)  Intention
   7.  Spinal cord
   8.  Sympathetic nervous system
  (9)  Energy Expended

 INNER Dynamics :
  1-4. The food passes through the intestinal walls into the blood stream.
  4-2. Oxygen is required in the blood stream to support the transformation
	of food into energy.  The oxygen is externally obtained through point
	(3) the Air which is crossed by 4-2.
  2-8. Breathing is encouraged by motor activity of the sympathetic system. (?)
  8-5. The brain directs the functioning of the sympathetic nervous system. (?)
  5-7. The brain activates nerves within the spinal cord initiated by the
	intention for movement from (6) which is crossed by 5-7.
  7-1. The spinal cord must be capable of supporting the para-sympathetic
	activities associated with digestion. (?)

   Understanding the inner esoteric interactions involved in converting food
  into energy is a major study within the schools of Gurdjieff, and there are
  many more complicated interactions with many subtler levels of energy than
  those shown above.  It is deemed to be so important that I thought I would
  include it here even though the INNER interpretation is incomplete (as
  indicated by question marks).  If I can locate my other Gurdjieff books I
  will fill in some more details.

   I hope these examples can help to explain the enneagram symbol and also
  help to set it into motion for you.

							Todd

    Kudos to 1036.3, Todd Dolliver.. good work.. keeps the left brain
    busy, doesn't it ?  Maybe that's what it's for...
    
< Note 1036.2 by 20506::SANTIAGO "Certified Gremlin Instructor" >
>                          -< The Sarman Brotherhood >-
>    The Eneagram was a symbol "discovered" by George Ivanovitch Gurdjieff.
>    Some of his students theorized that it was the symbol of the Sarmoung
>    Brotherhood (or Sarman Brotherhood),
    
    ..or Sarmoung Brotherhood, on the Oxus in northern Afghanistan..
    
>     who G. was trying to locate
>    (and probably did) in his quest for the meaning of _death_. 
    
    'Meaning of DEATH' ? what a perversion of Gurdjieff's work..
    
>    According
>    to an Asian tradition, this Brotherhood was one of the repositories
>    of Ancient knowledge; knowledge that was essential for the "Harmonious
>    Development of Man"...
    
     I suggest a book, "Teachers of Gurdjieff", by Rafael LeFort,
    published by Dutton, I believe.  In it LeFort, lately of a French
    'Gurdjeiff group', follows G.'s trail thru the mideast, on the way 
    meeting many Sufi brotherhoods and teachers.  Interestingly, the
    greatest of these teachers stated to Lefort that any 'baraka' or 
    spiritual power inherent in Gurdjieff's works and/or groups had 
    left as of Gurdjieff's death in October 1949.

    The message is that the real work is NOT 'ancient', is always 
    available, and spending too much time decoding work meant for one 
    group at one place at one time is counterproductive.  Lefort was 
    sent to a current group, a Sufi group in France, and apparently did 
    not rejoin the Gurdjieff followers.  
    
    karl

    
    
    > 'Meaning of Death' what a perversion of Gurdjieff's work..
    
    No...is not a perversion og G. work...it depends on how you understood
    it...
    
    G. interest in mysiticism began as a search for answers to question
    he posed to several people he considered his mentors and that they
    didn't answer (or their answers weren't to convincing). Also, several
    experiences of his drove him thru the mystic avenue...
    
    				********
    
    When G. was a youngster, he became involved in a "duel" with one
    of his peers. Close to the college, there was a military canon shooting
    range. So it was decided that they put their lives in the hand of
    fate...surrepticiouslly the two of them entred the camp and each
    one choose a trench (done by previous blasts...) to get into...
    
    The shooting began...time lost its meaning for him...while he lay
    there, he began to wonder on the stupidity of the whole situation...
    and what would happen after he died...he experienced an extraordinary
    feeling of "aliveness", which lasted tru the whole affair...he also
    became very concerned with his _friend_, who lay in some other hole.
    He also thought on what would happen to him after his death...and
    he felt, what for him was, an extraordinary feeling of compasion
    towards him...
    
    When the event finished, all of his looking friends ran looking
    for them...
    
    G. survived...and the other...also survived but with a broken leg.
    G. helped him and helped the family of his friend take care of him.
    But the question remained unanswered...what would had happened to
    him after his death ?...
    
    The answer to this question formed the basis of G. quest. But for
    answering this question the truht of others had to be sought...
    Do we have a soul ?...For what we are alive ? what is the purpose
    of life ?...why wars ?....whats the real purpose ?, its real motives?
    ...People, how and why they behave as they do ?...Why, of the
    destruction and corruption of nature ?, do mankind understands that
    our survival resides in the survival of nature ?...why some people
    become sick will others seem eternally healthy ?...do "evil" exists?
    and if it exists, how and why is it ?...what ultimatly, drives mankind?
    ...what force ?...by which influence ?...and many, many more...
    
    
    				***************
    
    
    > "The Teachers of Gurdjieff" by Rafael Lefort...
    
    Leforts' book is an interesting one...but hardly accurate. In it
    Lefort claims to have meet the Teachers of Jurjizada (that is how
    they pronounced Gurdjieff...please excuse if I have mispelled it)
    in the regions of central Asia. For one, if Lefort did meet the
    original teachers their age would be at that time well over 120
    years, highly unlikely. Also, the name "Lefort" is a pseudonim for
    a gentlemen who wanted to descredit G. students teachings in favor
    for the teachings of another school, which adscribed to itself a
    more direct link with the Sufi schools of central Asia (I posted
    replies 936.2,.3 in regards to a question on G. work in where I
    briefly mention Leforts' book).
                                                  
                                   
    G. work is highly facinating and complex. Depending on the readers
    choice of both "working Groups" and books (on G. work) it will be
    what they understand about him and his work; depending on what they
    understand of themselves is what they will comprehend of _The Work_.
    
    
    
    							Paz Profunda
    
    								JSR:.
    
    

    Reply to...
================================================================================
Note 1036.5                         ENNEAGRAM                             5 of 5
20506::SANTIAGO "Certified Gremlin Instructor"       79 lines  28-APR-1989 10:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
  >  When G. was a youngster, he became involved in a "duel" with one
  >  of his peers. Close to the college, there was a military canon shooting
  >  range. So it was decided that they put their lives in the hand of
  >  fate...surrepticiouslly the two of them entred the camp and each
  >  one choose a trench (done by previous blasts...) to get into...
  >  
  >  The shooting began...time lost its meaning for him...while he lay
  >  there, he began to wonder on the stupidity of the whole situation...
  >  and what would happen after he died...he experienced an extraordinary
  >  feeling of "aliveness", which lasted tru the whole affair...he also
  >  became very concerned with his _friend_, who lay in some other hole.
  >  He also thought on what would happen to him after his death...and
  >  he felt, what for him was, an extraordinary feeling of compasion
  >  towards him...
   
    Silly kids think the will live forever. After their first brush
    with death they think they have a religious experience. Typical!

    	I first noticed books about the Enneagram when I was in
    a Catholic bookstore.  I've seen nothing elsewhere.  Is the
    thrust primarily Catholic or do I have tunnel vision about this?
    
    	These books approach the Enneagram from a psychological/spiritual
    angle, emphasizing personality types and overcoming the negative
    aspects of each.
    
    Richard

    
    The thrust is definitively "Universal", but not necesary belonging 
    to any particular group or religion (one of the previous replies
    had done an excellent job in explaining its application to a given
    situation).
    
    However, for understanding the eneagram as G. applied it, some exposure
    to his philosophy is needed...
    
    G. teaching methods included the discussion of several symbols or
    "diagrams" and their practical application to archive growth. Symbols
    such as the pentagram, the triad, the double-triple triads, the
    cube, the circle, the musical scale, lines, etc.
    
    His main thesis is that "man is asleep" and that "man is a machine"
    (a very complex one). The main jobs at hand are to fully understand
    the machine in order to obtain knowledge we can then use to help us
    awaken. G. followed his theoretichal discussions with examples,
    and most of the time, exercises and experiments...        
    
    G. used the Enneagram to explain (among several others) not only
    personnality types of men in general, but most important, of man
    himself. That is, the _layers_ or states in where each person lives
    and the paths leading from one type to another. This theoretical
    knowledge was of little use if not followed by the _work_ needed
    to follow the paths leading to a higher self.
    
    The Eneagram can be applied to almost any situation or
    "psycho-spiritual system" with varying degrees of success because
    of its "universality" (including religious systems). This may help
    to explain why it will be found (with some minor variations) in
    some other "systems".
    
    P.D.---"Jurjizada"  means "the son of Gurdjieff" (according to Lefort).
            I forgot to clarify that in my previous reply...(lost from
    	    the spanish-to-english translation   :-)     )
    
    
    							Paz Profunda
    								JSR:.
    
    

    I have a nice little book called "The Enneagram a journey of self
    discovery" by Maria Beesing, O.P.; Robert J. Nogosek, C.S.C.; and
    Patrick H. O'Leary, S.J; copyrighted 1984.  ISBN 0-87193-214-8.
    
    This is one of those books begun and then set aside (I tend to
    buy lots of books), but now that this subject has been brought up,
    I am re-attracted to it and will read it.  I would like to type
    a few paragraphs from it, and if you all are interested, I will
    enter more.
    
    From "Part One: Discovering One's Compulsion
    
    1. Finding Oneself in the Enneagram 
    
    	The Sufi Enneagram represents a journey into self.  Although
    the Enneagram personality types may be discovered in friends, other
    acquaintances and even in past historical figures, the main purpoase
    of the Enneagram is to discover one's own type.  The result can
    be very rewarding.  it can bring a whole new understanding of one's
    personality, which will be valid for the rest of one's life.  Finding
    one's Enneagram type is meant to be a self-enlightenment which leads
    to authentic personal freedom on a level never before experienced.
    
    	The term "enneagram" is derived from the Greek work "enneas,"
    meaning nine.  According to the Enneagram system there are nine,
    and only nine, types of human personality.  Each personality type
    is identified in a negative way though it also has positive
    characteristics.  The identifying negativity stems from a specific
    compulsion ingrained in one's self-concept and having a great influence
    on one's behavior.  
    
    	The compulsion typical of a given personality is experienced
    as a basic driving force.  It is not simply an obsession, such as
    a fixed idea or preoccupation of the consciousness.  It has the
    characteristic of prevailing in the way energy is channeled in personal
    behavior, and even of being irresistible, especially when it remains
    hidden and unrecognized.  The compulsion is a kind of "hidden sin,"
    where sin is understood as a kind of paralysis or hindrance in becoming
    one's true authentic self.  It causes people not to understand
    themselves in their real motives and in the underlying drives of
    their personalities.  
    
    	Discovering this compulsion characterizing one's personality
    involves the unveiling of the hidden but basic defensive strategy
    a person has developed for security and meaningful existence.  This
    defensive strategy has been so carefully hidden that probably it
    is not consciously perceived or reflected upon by the person.  As
    a result it is not known as constituting a problem needing attention
    as one makes efforts to achieve personal growth and fulfillment.
    {...this paragraph continues}."
    
    ===================================================================
    Brief bios of the authors:  Father Patrick H. O'Leary, currently
    Director of the Jesuit Retreat House in Cleveland, first learned
    the Enneagram during 1971.  He has conducted numerous retreats
    concerned with Ignatius Loyola's Spiritual Exercises, conducted
    group retreats, trained retreat directors, and traveled widely to
    give retreats based on the Enneagram.  
    
    Sister Maria Beesing, O.P., is a spiritual director, a retreat
    director, a specialist in continuing formation and personnel
    development.  She has studied the Enneagram since 1974 and given
    workshops and seminars on it since 1977. 
    
    Holy Cross Father Robert Nogosek, who taught Theology at the University
    of Notre Dame from 1968 to 1973, is presently working with a Catholic
    parish renewal team based at Beech Grove Benedictine Center near
    Indianapolis, Indiana.  
    
    
    Has anyone else used this book? 
    
    Karen

    
    re: .9 (Karen)
    
    The book sounds very interesting.  Could I talk you into 
    giving us a brief synopsis of the nine personality types?
    
    Curiously yours,
    
    
    Guy  

    re: [-]
    
    I'd be happy to do so.  I'll put something together and post it
    here later today or tomorrow.
    
    Karen

        Here is the brief description given in "The Enneagram" of each 
        Personality Type.  The book goes into further detail.  
        
        #1.  ONES avoid anger.  Although they do perceive much to be 
        distressed or upset about, it is very important to them not to 
        become angry and not to express anger to others.  They are 
        very dedicated to being perfect and to going things in a 
        perfect way.  For this they are ready to work very hard 
        preparing their tasks, cleaning the house, etc.  They are 
        bothered when things are not done right, whether by themselves 
        or by others. 
        
        #2.  TWOS avoid recognizing they have needs.  They readily see 
        needs in others; indeed, they are preoccupied in noticing what 
        needs others have.  They pride themselves in being helpful, 
        especially to anyone special to them.  As regards themselves 
        they do not admit they needs others for any help, nor that 
        they have needs which they should attend to themselves.  it is 
        important to them not to admit being in need.  
        
        #3.  THREES avoid failure.  Something drives them to be always 
        working for success in their lives.  Their personality 
        actually identifies with the successes they attain.  
        Consequently, they will seek to avoid failure of any sort, 
        even at great cost to themselves and others.  
        
        #4.  FOURS avoid ordinariness.  It is very important to them 
        always to be special.  They experience themselves as persons 
        of refinement and sensitivity and in no way simply as ordinary 
        persons.  They are inclined to think others do not understand 
        them because of the uniqueness of the feelings they have 
        experienced, especially concerning the sorrow and even tragedy 
        of their lives.  
        
        $5.  FIVES avoid emptiness.  They are preoccupied with growing 
        in their store of knowledge, which they seek to acquire wholly 
        through their own efforts.  They feel a deep need to know more 
        than they ever say to others, as though sharing everything 
        would leave them with nothing.  It is very important not to 
        get caught in social involvements which are boring to them, 
        i.e., not helpful for learning something.  
        
        #6.  SIXES avoid deviance.  They see life as governed by laws, 
        rules and norms.  Out of responsibility to the demands 
        life makes on them they strive to avoid any neglect of their 
        duties.  They are preoccupied that all regulations be 
        observed, especially those given by a person in authority or 
        set down in writing.  They see this in terms of loyalty to the 
        group or groups to which they belong.  
        
        #7.  SEVENS avoid pain.  They are optimistic and fun-loving 
        persons, and to them life should not be experienced as painful 
        in any way.  They avoid noticing pain or distress in the lives 
        of others around them.  Often they fail to carry out what they 
        have planned to do because of the difficulties and discomforts 
        involved in its execution.  
        
        #8.  EIGHTS avoid weakness.  They glory in being strong 
        persons.  They perceive life as a struggle for what is right.  
        The fact that the world is not the way it should be means that 
        to keep their personal dignity they must be ready to meet 
        head-on whatever is wrong and unmask its injustice and 
        pretenses.  They like to "have it out" with others.  They are 
        watchful not to be taken advantage of, and take extreme 
        care not to let others see them as weak in any way.  
        
        #9.  NINES avoid conflict.  They feel uncomfortable with any 
        tension or lack of harmony between people.  To them nothing is 
        as important as peace and restraint.  They have a lot of 
        concern not only to maintain their own inner tranquillity, 
        which is fairly easy to do, but also to keep peace among those 
        around them.  They feel a need for others to draw them into 
        activity otherwise they lack incentive to do things.  
        
        ------------------------------------
        
        The Table of Contents is as follows:
        
        PART ONE: Discovering One's Compulsion
        1.  Finding Oneself in the Enneagram...
            The Avoidance of Each Personality Type
            Description of Each Personality Type
            [#1 thru #9]
        
        2.  The Enneagramic Jesus [#1 thru #9]
        
        PART TWO: Understanding One's Compulsion
        3.  The Compulsive Self Looking at the World
            The Self vis-a-vis the World
            (1) Aggressive Types: 8,3,1
            (2) Dependent Types: 2,6,7
            (3) Withdrawing Types: 5,9,4
            A False Sense of Reality
            (1) Offensive Types: 8,3,1
            (2) Acceptance Types: 2,6,7
            (3) Defensive Types: 5,9,4
            A False Sense of Virtue and Vice
            (a) Reality as the Inner Order: 8,2,5
            (b) Reality as Other-inner Harmony: 3,6,9
            (c) Reality as the Outer Order: 1,7,4
            The Experience of Time
            Totems of the Compulsive Types
        
        4.  The Unbalanced Self
            The Passions
            (a) Reality as the Inner Order: 8,2,5
            (b) Reality as Other-inner Harmony: 3,6,9
            (c) Reality as the Outer Order: 1,7,4
            Moving with the Arrows of Compulsion
            (1) Aggressive Types: 8,3,1
            (2) Dependent Types: 2,6,7
            (3) Withdrawing Types: 5,9,4
            The Personality Types according to their Preferred Center
            (A) Gut Persons: 8,9,1
            (B) Heart Persons: 2,3,4
            (C) Head Persons: 5,6,7
        
        PART THREE: Overcoming One's Compulsion
        5.  Acting against the Compulsion
            Moving against the Arrows
            (1) Aggressive Types: 8,3,1
            (2) Dependent Types: 2,6,7
            (3) Withdrawing Types: 5,9,4
            Getting Help from a Friend
        
        6.  Conversion
            Intellectual Conversion: The Holy Ideas
            Affective Conversion: Passion Healed by Virtue
            Instinctual Conversion: Using Spiritual Discernment
            Totems and Colors as Symbols of the Redeemed Types
        
        Epilogue
        Notes
        
        ILLUSTRATIONS
        
        [22 of them which I'm not going to type]
        
        

    
    re: .12 (Karen)
    
    Thank you very much for taking the time to enter that information.
    It was very interesting.  The only problem is I can see how I would
    fit about 7 out of 9 of those.  :-)
    
    
    Guy

    
    
    Hi, you're welcome.  I found that most of them were true for me
    also, but as I read them over and over, I found that fewer and
    fewer of them were true on a deeper level.  In other words, most
    of them have been true at one time or another, but only 1 or 2
    seem to be an underlying issue, always there.  It is tough to narrow
    down to one, and I suppose I shouldn't admit that I could claim
    ownership to several of them  ;-).
    
    Karen

    
    Hi Karen!  I have a book that I've just begun to look over lately
    called "The Seven Rays".  The principle is basically the same as
    these nine personality types except that there are seven and they
    are positive manifestations.  The seven rays, says author Ernest
    Wood, are present in all of us, but one is dominant and is the
    essence of our thinking, drawing like energies to us.  I'll write
    more when I'm more informed.
    
    Guy
    

    < Note 1036.5 by 20506::SANTIAGO "Certified Gremlin Instructor" >

    Congratulations for having read 'Meetings with Remarkable Men'.
    I did too.  Still not a reason for stating baldly that Gurdjieff's
    work was to investigate the meaning of death.  His work was to 
    investigate the aptitude of Westerners for certain portions of the
    Sufi path.  Gurdjieff left half-trained.  He admitted that
    he left his teachers to 'bring the message to the West.'  In real
    Sufism, those that want to teach, can't, and vice versa.  It insures
    that ego-cultism doesn't happen.
        
> "The Teachers of Gurdjieff" by Rafael Lefort...
>    Leforts' book is an interesting one...but hardly accurate. 
    
    Your opinion.  In reply to those that might say 'what connection
    does this have with the base note', I say, Lefort's book has
    an Enneagram on the cover !
    
>    In it Lefort claims to have meet the Teachers of Jurjizada 
>    in the regions of central Asia. For one, if Lefort did meet the
>    original teachers their age would be at that time well over 120
>    years, highly unlikely. 
    
    Ye of little faith !  Evolved Sufis, doing the prescribed exercises,
    can live far longer than ordinary people.. it has to do with 
    altered breathing methods, which can oxygenate the blood and further
    longevity.  
    
>    Also, the name "Lefort" is a pseudonim for
>    a gentlemen who wanted to descredit G. students teachings in favor
>    for the teachings of another school, which adscribed to itself a
>    more direct link with the Sufi schools of central Asia 
    
    I heard the same defensiveness from folks in the local
    Gurdjieff group.  How come the name of the 'real' person has never
    surfaced ?  How come a Murshid (from Pakistan) I know who had read 
    Lefort's book verified the fact that any power in Gurdjieff's 
    organization left before his death ?  How come Gurdjieff's last 
    words were, 
    
    "I leave you all in a fine mess."

    re: Enneagram and Personality types
    
         Lazaris has also used this information (slanting it his
    own way, of course.)  Please see note 358.140 for a brief 
    description of Lazaris' application of enneagrams.
    
    Frederick
    

    According to Sufi lore the city of Damascus is laid out in the shape of
    an enneagram.  I am in no position to confirm or deny this.
    
    karl