Conference hydra::dejavu

    
    See also note 656.
    
    Cindy

        I just this morning watched a docmentary by a few
    scientists on chaos. It seems what they thought to be
    chaotic in any form (unpredictable) like water,brain
    waves or weather patterns or even an irregular heart
    beat all follow the same rules and results are the 
    same if you have an off beat heart or a sudden change
    in say the weather there is a formular for chaos.
        When any thing what so ever becomes chaotic the
    resulting pattern becomes like a figure 8 normally the
    pattern should be like a circle but tests show when
    any thing starts to become chaotic the pattern speeds
    up till the point where it can no longer travel in
    circle the edge of the circle starts to be pulled into
    the center of the circle if it dosn`t normalize it
    goes through and forms pretty close to a figure 8 all
    things that they tested ended up with the same result.
        They also did a test on cocain to see what would 
    happen to brain waves a heart beat and resportory sys.
    
    normally brain waves are always (chaotic) 
    normally a heart beat is predictable(rythm)
    normally resportory sys is predictable(rythm)
     after the person had cocain this happens
    brain waves became predictable (rythm)
    heart beat became unpredictable (chaotic)
    resportory sys became unpredictable (chaotic)
     What I guess there trying to say is chaos
    is needed just as much as normal events it
    has just as big a place in the universe as
    thing`s that are predictable
    
                                  Edski
    

                                                
    	I'm sure part of the Newtonian way of thinking (All things in
    perfect order) came from the religious beliefs at that time. There
    was the idea of "God's perfection" which governed all things. These
    were the same people who, in terms of musical composition, only
    used certain notes; the ones whose frequencies were nice, simple 
    products of rational factors, like 1/2 or 3/2 or 5/3 - again
    reflecting the God's perfection idea in their selection of "perfect 
    proportions".
    
    	We eventually have settled on a different proportion, an
    irrational one, for seperating musical notes in a chromatic scale;
    the twelth root of two, or 1.059463094...
    
    	Chaos, is a too "loosely bound" phenonema to fit the "God's
    perfection" model - at least the one which was believed during Newton's
    time. But there's no reason that the apparently quantized levels of
    chaos cant be part of God's great order. However, while definately 
    structured, it's just not as "pure" as some believers, who just may be 
    obsessed with the *idea* of perfection, would like to see...
    
    	I had chaos well defined when I was about 11 years old. It was
    because my father always had power boats and I had lots of experience
    watching the water splash and dance about in the wake which occurs
    directly behind the engine. It *is* chaos because, there are several
    different "states of the wake" which depend on the amount of energy
    being put into the system. Running the boat at different speeds
    produced markedly different behaviors of the water behind it. One
    particular state (when the boat was well off plane) made the water 
    seem to be "boiling all over the place"! It fascinated me enough to 
    actually label it "The definition of Chaos" in my own mind. 
    
    	The fact that "Get Smart" was on TV at the time, probably helped
    me to choose that name :')
    
    	Joe Jas

    re: .2
    ...
    >When any thing what so ever becomes chaotic the
    >resulting pattern becomes like a figure 8 normally the
    >pattern should be like a circle but tests show when
    >any thing starts to become chaotic the pattern speeds
    >up till the point where it can no longer travel in
    >circle the edge of the circle starts to be pulled into
    >the center of the circle if it dosn`t normalize it
    >goes through and forms pretty close to a figure 8 all
    >things that they tested ended up with the same result.
    .....

    Edski:
     	Based on the PBS show (nova), and my own reading,
    I think this is an oversimplification.  What I understand
    is that seemingly chaotic data can have a pattern.
    The pattern, however is not neccesarily the same for
    different data.  There can be simlarities between different
    sets of data, I think the first set was weather data, the
    second was the "dripping tap" data.  Each of these had
    a "figure eight" or "butterfly" pattern.
    
    The heart rate data had a generally oval pattern, until
    stressed, when it developed a characteristic kink.  The
    brain wave data was similar to the heart, only "reversed":
    normal was "more chaotic", drugged, smoothed.
    
    Other sets of data would have other overall shapes, which
    would change in various ways.  The key, as i understand it,
    was that previous to the "Science of Chaos", the patterns
    were not recognized, or even looked for.
    
    The fascinating part is that we have a new way to look for
    understandable patterns, in what was previously "noise"...
    
    Thanks
    dave pierson
    
    ps:
    semantic nit:
    I _WISH_ "they" hadn't called it "chaos theory".  It seems
    they have redefined the word "chaos" to mean:
    	" ordered in a way too complex to be obvious ".
    It would have been "nicer" if they had invented a new word...

    (re .20
    
    In some tarot decks a lemnescant cord -figure eight laying on its side-
    is a symbol of eternal life. The more things change the more they stay
    the same.
    

    
    re .4
    
    "ordered in a way too complex to be obvious"
    
    Thats very good_:-)  I like that.
    
    Mary

    Re: "ordered in a way too complex to be obvious"
    
    Yes, I think this applies to the entire Universe...and when
    we're upset over things, it's because we're not seeing it.
    
    Jerri