Conference hydra::dejavu

    Re .0 (George):
    
    Whole books have been written on the subject of talismanic magic.
    :-)
    
    >It is a smallish circular pendant, enscribed is a hexagon with
    >different carvings.  The other side has written words.  The pattern
    >is called _THE SEAL OF MERCURY_ and I confirmed it authenticity
    >by looking it up in a book on talimanic magic in a new-age bookstore
    >in Harvard Square.
     
    I'm familiar woth a couple of so-called "seals of Mercury"; without
    seeing it I couldn't pinpoint it for certain, though it sounds a
    bit as if it was derived from the _Clavicle Solomonis_, a grimoire.
    
    According to theory, a talisman to be used for a magical purpose
    should be manufactured by a practitioner of the arts and _personally_
    charged (i.e., if you wanted, oh, say, a taliman to help you in
    business, it would [usually] be one involved with the planet Jupiter
    [or possibly the Sun, depending on emphasis] and might involve an
    inscription based on those Jovian aspects that would emphasize
    commercial [or monetary] success.  A Jovian talisman would be made
    on a Thursday, in the appropriate hour [computed by the practitioner],
    and inscriibed with the appropriate signs to attune it to that
    influence.  If made in metallic form, a Jovian talisman would be
    made out of tin; otherwise, it should be inscribed on virgin parchment,
    using a special herbal ink, and incorporating a particular pattern
    using a kameic square of Jupiter).  The practitioner would charge
    it for its purpose, presumably "energizing" it with appropriate
    esoteric forces.  If such a talisman was made for you, it would
    mean that you should carry it with you (if, as in the example, it
    was made for your _business_, it could be installed at your place
    of business [store, office, etc.]).
    
    Talismanic magic is an extension of the concept of a "lucky" object
    (coin, rabbit's foot, etc.).  In its most advanced form, it depends
    heavily on symbolism.
    
    The usual "lucky pieces" and talismanic poendants are mass produced,
    which makes them little more than decoration.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Re: .1
    
    Even if a mass-produced object starts out as a decoration, it stikes
    me that you could, by either working with it yourself, or having
    a practitioner work with it, "tailor" it to be special to you so
    that it would serve your purpose better, be more than mere decoration.
    
    Marcia

    Re .2 (Marcia):                
    
    Notice I said "little more that decoration."  An actual mass-produced
    object with symbols _has_ a bit of symbolic use, but effectively,
    the energies needed to make it operate must come from outside it.
    
    This can be done, though to do it right takes nearly as much work
    as doing it from scratch.  One _could_ go, for instance, to on occult
    shop and pick up, oh, a pendant representation of the eighteenth
    talisman from _Le Pullet Noire_.  This talisman is generally available
    in cast pewter at such shops.  The basic symbology on it gives a
    direct-Mercurial and reverse-image dual Jovial aspect, as well as
    a small solar aspect.  The talisman is _supposed_ to be made out
    of cerese-colored satin embroidered with gold and silver (which
    is hardly pewter) and should be accompanied by a ring with appropriate
    symbols.  To activate the thing would require at the appropriate
    time(s) an incense that incorporated appropriate ingredients to
    be used as a suffumigatory that with fairly complex rituals to attune it
    symbolically to tin and gold.  
    
    It could be done, if somebody really wanted to, but it would doubtless
    be at least as easy to start from scratch.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
	There used to be a universal belief that a jewel or
	almost any object might be charged with magnetism of
	good or evil influences; and though this idea would
	in modern days be regarded by many as a mere superstition,
	it is nevertheless a fact that such force may be stored
	in a physical object, and many remain there for a long
	period of time.   A man can pour his magnetism into such
	an object so that his definite rate of vibration will 
	radiate from it as light radiates out from the sun.

	This influence put into such an object may be either good
	or evil, helpful or harmful.  In many cases, such magnetic
	action resembles a high stimulant.  In other cases, it is
	arranged for the purpose of calming and soothing the subject,
	so that he may overcome his fears or his agitation.  Such
	a talisman may be magnetized, for example, with the object
	of strenghtening a man to resist a certain temptation; and
	there is no doubt that when properly charged, it has a powerful
	influence in the direction intended.

	Every one of us has his special rate of mental and astral
	vibration, and any object which has been long in contact with
	us will be permeated with those rates of vibration, and
	capable of radiating them in turn, or of communicating them
	with concentrated energy to any person who may wear the object
	or come within the range of its action.   Anything, therefore,
	which has been in close contact with some great saint or some
	devoted person will bear with it much of his own individual
	magnetism, and will tend to reproduce in the man or woman who
	wears it something of the same state of feelling which existed
	in him from whom it came.

	It must not be forgotten that in many cases, the faith of the
	wearer in the talisman also comes into play and contributes its
	quota to the effect.  If a person is impressively informed by
	someone in whom he has confidence that a certain talisman will
	undoubtedly produce a certain result, his own firm expectation
	of that result tends to bring it about; but quite apart from
	man's faith in it, it is possible for a talisman to produce
	an effect even upon those who do not know of its presence.
	When charged by a powerful mesmerist, certain objects will
	retain the magnetism for a very long period of time.

	Any earnest person can make a temporary talisman which
	will be of great use to one who needs help.  One who
	is accustomed to the work, can perform any ordinary
	process of magnetization or demagnetization practically
	instantaneously by the mere exertion of his will; but 
	the beginner usually finds it necessary to help himself
	in the concentration of his will by thinking carefully
	of the various stages of the process and using the
	appropriate gestures.

	Suppose, for example, that it is desirable to magnetize
	some small object such as a ring, a locket, etc.) in
	order to make it an amulet against fear.  What is the
	easiest method of procedure ?.

	Realize first exactly what is wanted.  We wish to load
	that object with etheric, astral and mental mater heavily
	charged with a particular set of vibrations -those of
	courage and confidence.  The trained occultist would
	gather together at each of those levels such types of
	matter as will most easily receive and retain vibrations
	of just that character; the beginner, knowing nothing
	of that, must use whatever material comes to hand, and
	so will have to expend a greater amount of force than
	would be exerted by his more experienced brother.

	The making of an amulet may be likened to the writing
	of an inscription, and the acquisition of the right
	kind of matter corresponds to obtaining a perfect
	surface on which to write.  The beginner, who cannot
	do this must write with greater labor and less perfection
	of result upon the surface that happens to be available.
	The first difficulty that confronts him is that his sheet
	is not even a blank one; his paper already bears an
	inscription, which must be removed before he can use it.

	If the ring or locket has been worn by anyone, it is
	already full of magnetism of that person -magnetism which
	may be better or may be worse than that of the student,
	but is at any rate, different from it, and so is an
	obstacle -just as any kind of writing, however good, which
	already fills a sheet of paper, stands in the way of its
	use for further writing.

	Even if the ring or locket be quite new, it is likely
	to contain something of the special magnetism either
	of the maker or of the seller; so in any case, the first
	thing to do is to remove whatever may be there -to obtain
	a clear sheet for our inscription.  There are various
	methods by which this may be done, we will describe the
	simplest one.

	Rest the tip of the forefinger of the right hand against
	the end of the thumb, so as to make a ring, and visualize
	(imagine) a film of etheric matter stretched across that
	ring like the head of a drum.  "Will" strongly that such
	a film should be made, and remember that that very effort
	of the will "does" make it, although you cannot see it.

	Remember also that it is essential to the success of the
	operation that you should be quite certain of this fact
	-that the human will has the power to arrange subtle
	matter in this or any other way.  Then, keeping your
	attention firmly fixed upon that film, so as to hold
	it quite rigid, pass slowly through it the object to 
	be demagnetized, and by so doing, you will cleanse it
	entirely of the etheric part of its previous magnetism.

	This does not mean that you will leave it without any
	etheric matter, but that every particle of such matter
	will be swept out and replaced; just as, if a tube is
	filled with gas, and one blows strongly into one end
	of it, all the gas is driven out; but the tube is not 
	therefore empty, as the pressure of the surrounding air
	immediately fills it.  So the specially charged etheric
	matter is dredged out of the ring or locket, and its
	place is taken by the ordinary etheric matter which
	interpenetrates the surrounding atmosphere.

	The next step is to let the etheric film dissolve,
	and replace it by one of astral matter, through which
	the object is again passed.  The process is then repeated
	with a film of mental matter, and we then shall have the
	object entirely free on all three planes from any sort
	of specialized magnetism -a clean sheet, in fact, upon
	which we can write what we will.  After a certain amount
	of practice, the student will be able to make a combined
	film containing etheric, astral and mental matter, so as
	to perform the whole operation by passing the object
	once through the ring formed by your finger and thumb.

	The operator must then exercise all his strength to fill
	himself with the qualities which he wishes the amulet
	to convey (in this case, fearlessness and self-relliance)
	excluding for the moment all thought of other attributes
	and becoming the living incarnation of those qualities 
	desired to be impregnated into the object.  Then, when he 
	has thus built up himself to his highest level of enthusiasm, 
	let him take the object in his left hand, or lay it on a
	table in front of him, and pour magnetism on it through
	the fingers of his right hand, all the time willing with
	his outmost strength that it shall be filled with the very
	essence of valor, calmness and intrepidity.

	It will probably help him in concentration if, while 
	doing this, he repeats to himself firmly again and again
	such words as: "Courage, confidence, in the name of ___",
	Where this object is, may no fear enter", or any others
	expressing a similar idea.  Let him do so for a few
	minutes, never allowing his attention to swerve for a
	moment, and he need have no shade of a doubt that he has
	made a really effective talisman.

	This process will probably take some time, but for a person
	who is accustomed to it will do it quickly and esily.
	The trained occultist makes constant use of this power
	as a means of helping those with whom he comes into contact
	he never dispatches a letter, or even a postcard without
	thinking what good gift of refreshing, consoling or
	strengthtening magnetism he can send with it.  He has at
	his command other ways of making a talisman besides that
	which has been described, which will be described at a
	later lecture.

    
	It is frequently desired to demagnetize objects 
	which are larger than those described previously.
	In such cases, one may hold the 2 hands at the
	required distance apart and imagine a broad band
	of etheric matter extending out from them, with
	which the previous magnetism can be dredged out
	as explained before.

	Another method is to hold the two hands one on
	each side of the object, and send a strong stream
    	of etheric matter through it from one hand to the
	other, thus washing away the undesired influence.

	The same force can often be employed in the same
	way to relieve pain.  A headache, for example, is
	"usually" either caused or accompanied by a congestion
	of etheric matter in the brain, and it can "often"
	be cured by that same method of putting one hand
	on each side of the sufferer's temples, and washing
	away matter by an effort of the human will.	

	Another use to which the power of demagnetization
	can be put to use is to clear objectionable influences
	out of a room.  One may have a visitor who leaves
	an unpleasant atmosphere behind him; or one may find
	uncomfortable astral conditions prevailing in one's
	apartment at a hotel; and if such an emergency arises,
	it is useful to know how to deal with it.

	The cubic content of even a small room is too great
	for the employment of the dredging methods previously
	described, so we must invoke the great principle of
	sympathy and antipathy, and set up within the room
	a series of vibrations so hostile to the evil influence
	that the latter is dominated or driven out.  To create
	such an ondulation is not difficult, but means must be
	found for spreading it rapidly all over the room.

	One ready method is the burning of incense or tablets,
	another is sprinkling of water, but both incense and
	water must be first passed through the process recommended
	for the making of a talisman.  Their original magnetism
	must be removed, and they must be replaced with the
	thought of purity and peace.

	After that has been done, then when the incese is burned
	its particles (each bearing the desired influence), will
	quickly  be diseminated through every cubic inch of air
	in the room; or if water is used and sprinkled about the
	chamber, each drop of it will at once become a center of
	active radiation.  A vaporizer is an even more effective
	method of distribution; and if rose water is used instead
	of ordinary water, the work of the student will be
	considerably facilitated.

	The method of action of these etheric or astral disinfection
	is obvious.  The disburbing influence of which we desire
	to rid ourselves expresses itself in etheric and astral
	waves of a certain length.  Our magnetic efforts fill 
	the room with another set of waves, different in length
	and more powerful, because they have been intentionally
	set swinging, which probably the others were not.  The 2
	sets of inharmonious vibrations cannot co-exist, and so
	the stronger one overcomes and extinguishes the weaker one.

	These are some of the ways in which the force that dwells
	within us may be used.  In this case, as in every other,
	knowledge is power, in this case, as in every other, 
	additional power means additional responsibility and
	additional opportunity.  If you can readily develop this
	power, if you can do these things quickly and easily,
	so much the better for you, so long as you use this
	advantage "unselfishly", and make the world by its
	means a little happier, a little better, a little
	cleaner as the result of your effort.

    Juan,
    
    What's "rose water"?

    
    	
    	I'm not sure about this, but I believe 
    	that Rose water is a liquid made from
    	the extract of rose petals.  Maybe
    	someone else can verify or correct this
    	assumption.
    

    Does anyone know how to make it?

    Actually, rose water is plain water in which one has put rose petals
    and allowed to age so that the water absorbs the rose scent.
    
    If anyone is really interested, I can bring a recipe on how to make it,
    I have a couple of books that tell how to make it.
    
    Marilyn 

    
    Just to add, the liquid made by extracting the "essence" from the rose
    petals is called attar of rose, and is one of the most expensive items,
    per ounce to buy. 
    
    I believe, though I won't swear to it, so if someone knows better,
    please say, that the difference between perfume, cologne and "toilet 
    water" used to be (may still be), the amount of attar of rose in the 
    mixture. 
    
    Marilyn

    Interestingly enough (for me anyway), whilst in the South of France
    this summer, I visited a perfume "factory" (Fragonard in Grasse). .11
    is almost correct, except that attar of rose is by no means the most
    expensive component of perfume (sorry, can't remember what was but we
    were all stunned at the cost). The difference between perfume, eau de
    toilette, and eau de cologne is indeed the proportion of the scented
    ingredints and the alcohol. Typically dozens of scents are blended to
    make any one perfume, there are more than a hundred generally
    used/chosen from.
    
    Sorry I can't be more specific, my memory is fading... Too much
    mid-afternoon vin rouge ;^) Most impressive tour though.
    
    Laurie.

Juan,
	
About Talismans and Magic...
Where does your information come from ?
I don't see any references whatsoever in your articles.
Are they your own words ? Or are they second hand information ?
You present a lot of assertions like they should be hard facts..
What do you know about their validity ?

-Svein

	Svein,

		you may have missed a previous note of mine
	where I stated that most of the information I posted
	comes from teachings of the Theosophical Society,
	they are not my own words, I was quoting from books
	and lectures, and anyone can find it just like I found
	it, it is there for anyone who makes the effort of
	looking for it.  

		Most of these books were written by members
	of the Theosophical Society which have dedicated their
	lives to helping humankind in the advancement of our
	evolution; many have progressed and advanced their
	mental and spiritual faculties to such a degree that
	they were able to verify this information by themselves.
	When we progress and develop our own faculties to such
	level, we will be able to verify and corroborate such
	information by ourselves just like they did.

		They offer no dogma, they don't ask for money,
	and they welcome one and all, no matter which affiliation
	you belong to, because they say that all religions have
	a common base which encompasses all, their motto is:
	There is no religion higher than Truth.  I am not a member
	of the society, but own many of their books, and I have
	found the information contained therein to satisfactority
       	answer my questions, and I believe them to be the Truth.

		What impresses me the most about their teachings
	is that it brings light where there is darkness, it solves
	many of our problems, it clears away many difficulties,
	it accounts for the apparent injustices of life, and in 
	all directions, it brings order out of seeming chaos, it
	explains that the world is not drifting blindly into
	anarchy, but that its progress is under the control of a
	perfectly organized hierarchy. I know of no other religion 
	or phylosophy that has been able to do that for me.  Part
	of this paragraph was quoted from one of their books, so
	I quoted it because those are exactly my feelings.

		In case you are interested, most of the information
	I have posted comes from a couple of books by C.W. Leadbeater
	such as "A Texbook on Theosophy", and "The Hidden Side of Things".
	Please read my note 129.73.
    

Wow, I finally agree with Laurie. on something!!!  (.12)

I took the tour of the Fragonard factory in June of 1989 and it was a 
"most impressive tour".  I had toured a perfume factory in Ireland 
(near Galway) a couple of years prior to that and it didn't measure up
the French one.  Hmmm, must have been the Opium... 


Juan (.14),

There is a branch of the Theosophical Society in Boston (122 Bay State 
Road, 617-266-0410).  I've attended a few lectures there and they have 
a wonderful bookshop.  I hear there is also a branch in Lowell, but I 
haven't had time to investigate that one.

Ro

    I'd like to see the recipe, Marilyn.
    
    Great notes, Juan... thanks for entering them.

>About Talismans and Magic...
>Where does your information come from ?
>I don't see any references whatsoever in your articles.
>Are they your own words ? Or are they second hand information ?
    
    As to the possibility of _original source_, (beyond Theosophical writings) 
    this poses an interesting dilemma, since much of the base material in 
    Theosophy is claimed to be what is now commonly called 'chanelled,' or is 
    elaborations on originally chanelled material.
    
    Attribution of sources is a tricky matter in this kind of 
    tradition, you either end up looking at books of unknown antiquity and 
    dubious ancient authorship, or material coming from ostensibly paranormal 
    sources of one kind or other, and frequently both.
    
>You present a lot of assertions like they should be hard facts..
>What do you know about their validity ?
    
    Consider trying to find the _original source_ of a given passage in
    the Judeo-Christian Bible, for a rough analogy that might be more 
    familiar.   The Bible sounds fairly authoritative in spots as well. :-)
    
    						kind regards,
    							todd

                                                                    
    About imparting vibrations into an article...
    
    When I had my first set of mala beads blessed by Gurudev (he puts his
    hand over the beads in your hand and imparts his vibration from our
    guru lineage onto them), the vibration was so strong that it went up
    my arm and traveled into my heart chakra area.
    
    A few minutes later, I held up my hand to others nearby to feel the
    vibrations emanating from my hand.  All could feel them without
    exception.
    
    Cindy

    Hey-I took that tour May 1988.  All I remember was the head ache I got
    from all that perfume!!  I did buy some bath crystals though...
    
    I was in Europe on tour with my college choir. What a great time...

RE:  .9


You can also purchase rose water.  It's used in some recipes (eg. cookies,
some types of baklava).  Some (but not all) pharmacies carry it, but you usually
have to ask for it, since it doesn't jump off the shelf at you.  

Mary 

>  have to ask for it, since it doesn't jump off the shelf at you.  
    
    Unless a 'poltergeist agent' is walking by at the time.

	There aare sll sorts and kinds of Amulets and
	Talismans, but they may be arranged in four
	major classifications: general, adapted, ansouled
	and linked.

	General.-
		The Talisman previously described falls into
	this category.  The trained person naturally obtains
	a better result with less labor, not only because he
	knows how to use his Will more effectively, but because
	he has learned how to select the most suitable materials;	
	consequently, the influence of his talisman is stronger,
	and lasts for many years instead of perhaps a few months.

		This form of talisman is quite simple, its business
	is to pour out a steady stream of vibrations (ondulations)
	expressing the quality with which it is charged, and it
	will continue to do so with undiminished vigor for a period
	of time depending upon the force which originally went
	into making it.

	Adapted.-
		This type of talisman is one that has been carefully
	prepared to fit a particular person.  Its maker studies the
	person for whom it is intended, and notes carefully the
	deficiencies in his mental, astral and etheric bodies.
	Then he selects from the matter of the various planes the
	ingredients of his talisman, just as a physician selects
	the drugs to compound into a prescription, choosing a
	certain type of essence in order to repress an undesirable
	astral tendency, another in order to estimulate the sluggish
	action of some defective department of mental activity, and
	so on.

		Thus he produces a talisman accurately adapted to the
	needs of a particular person, and capable of doing for that
	person enormously more than a general talisman can do; but it
	would be of little use to anyone else but the person for whom
	it is intended.  It is like a skillfully made key with many
	wards, which exactly fit into a lock, but it will not open
	any other lock; while a general talisman may be compared
	to a skeleton key, which will open many inferior locks, but
	does not perfectly suit any one in particular.

	Ensouled.-
		Sometimes, it is desired to establish a center of
	radiation, which, instead of acting for a few years at most,
	will continue its outpouring through the centuries. In this
	case, it is not enough to charge the selected object with a
	dose of magnetic force -for, however large that dose may be,
	it must some time be exhausted- to produce this more permanent
	result we must bring into play some form of life, and for this
	purpose, one of two methods is usually adopted.

		The first method is to include in the physical amulet
	a minute fragment of one of those higher minerals which are
	sufficiently alive to throw out a ceaseless stream of particles.
	When that is done, the store of force poured into the amulet
	will last almost indefinitively longer, for instead of
	radiating steadily in all directions on its own account, it
	remains self contained, and charges only the particles which
	pass through it.  The work of distribution is thus done by
	the mineral, and a vast economy of energy is hereby secured.

		The second method is to arrange the ingredients of
	the talisman as to make it a means of manifestation for any
	one of certain comparatively undeveloped orders of nature 
	spirits. There are tribes of these creatures which, though 
	full of energy and strongly desirious to do something with it,
	cannot express themselves unless they can find some sort
	of outlet.  

		It is possible then to magnetize an amulet as to
	make it precisely the kind of outlet required, and thus to
	ensure the steady outflow through it of a stream of energy
	at high pressure, which may last for thousands of years,
	to the intense delight of the nature spirits and the great
	benefit of all who approach the magnetized center.

	Linked.-
		The linked talisman differs completely from the
	other kinds in one important aspect.  All those 
	previously described are made and set going by their
	creators, and then left to run their course and live
	their life, just as a clockmaker constructs a timepiece
	and then sells it to a customer and knows no more about
	it.  But the clockmaker sometimes chooses to remain in
	touch with his masterpiece, and undertakes to keep it
	wound and in order; this corresponds to the arrangement
	made in the case of a linked talisman.

		Instead of merely charging the object with 
	influence of a certain type, the operator when he
	magnetizes it, brings it into a close rapport with
	himself, so that it may become an outpost of his
	consciousness, a sort of telephone receiver, always
	connected with him, through which he can reach the
	holder or be reached by him.
	
		With this type of talisman, the wearer can,
	at a critical moment, send a cry for help to its builder,	
	who will instantly feel the appeal and respond by an
	outpouring of strength of whatever type may be required.
	Its manufacturer can also use it as a channel through
	which he can send periodic waves of influence, and so
	administer a course of treatment -a kind of emotional 
	or mental message.  Such a method of handling a case
	(the Christian Scientist church calls it "absent
	treatment") may be undertaken without a talisman,
	merely by projecting astral and mental currents; but 
	a talisman makes the work easier, and enables the
	operator to deal more readily with the etheric double
	of the subject.

		Usually, the link is made only in the physical
	astral and lower mental worlds, and is therefore confined
	to the personality of its constructor, but there are
	instances when an Adept (a Great One) has chosen to link
	a physical talisman to himself in his causal body, and
	then its influence lasts through the ages.  

Note 875.22                         
STUDIO::GUTIERREZ 
    
    Wow!!!  I want one of these..  

>
>		The first method is to include in the physical amulet
>	a minute fragment of one of those higher minerals which are
>	sufficiently alive to throw out a ceaseless stream of particles.
    
        What are the "higher minerals"?
    
>		The second method is to arrange the ingredients of
>	the talisman as to make it a means of manifestation for any
>	one of certain comparatively undeveloped orders of nature 
>	spirits. 
    
    	How would one do that?  Know what the ingredients are and how
        to arrange them, I mean?
    
>	instances when an Adept (a Great One) has chosen to link
>	a physical talisman to himself in his causal body, and
>	then its influence lasts through the ages.  

        Gee... I'd love to actually see one of these.

    
    
    	Mary,
    
    	     I'm not sure what is meant by "higher minerals",
    	but I suspect that it is a mineral which emits strong
    	beneficial radiation.  Maybe some or our fellow 
    	noters can enlighten us on that respect.
    
	     How does one go about to arrange the ingredients 
    	of the talisman as to make it a means of manifestation
    	for nature spirits ?.   I don't know.  I suspect that
    	that sort of knowledge is only available to more advanced
    	individuals.
    

>their motto is:
>There is no religion higher than truth.

And Krishnamurti said (in a famous theosophical meeting in Holland) :

"Truth is a pathless land"