| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 870.1 | One group | USAT05::KASPER | You'll see it when you believe it. | Fri Sep 23 1988 17:42 | 15 |
| Group dynamics can be incredible. Both in a positive way and a negative way
(when the energy is misused, such as in a mob or riot). In a positive
way groups can generate alot of good energy and channel it effectively,
I think. Look at all the world meditations, heart-link, events/ceremonies
around harmonic convergence, etc. As this new age begins to become more
apparent to the world population I think more and more will become
accomplished via this sense of community. In fact, I believe that the
entire population of the planet needs to become one group and that this is
what the 'new age' is really all about. If this can be accomplished there
will be nothing we can't do and all that we do will be in the interest of
the group (ie, humanity).
I hope we can do it.
Terry
|
| 870.2 | | WILLEE::FRETTS | Love our Mother Earth | Fri Sep 23 1988 18:39 | 25 |
|
I feel the same way - that group efforts are going to be of more
and more importance. The self work is important as well in that
the more whole an individual is and the more they understand
their own inner dynamics, the more they can contribute to the
group in a clearer way. Another interesting aspect of group
work which I recently experienced at a women's retreat, is the
impact the group dynamic has on the individual. One of the
facilitators shared with us that, after having observed and
participated for the full 6 days, she came to realize that
individuals had personally progressed further than some of
her private clients are able to in a year's time. She is a
Jungian analyst, and she was going to go back to her work with
this new insight and incorporate it in some way that she felt
would become clearer as time went on.
Personally, I am a very private person and tend to read alot
and learn on my own. However, I also find some of the most valuable
experiences are within a group, and come from either my sharing
with the other people, or their sharing experiences that trigger
something in me. And I always feel a sense of privilege when
working in groups this way.
Carole
|
| 870.4 | A group is as pure as its individuals | ORION::HERBERT | Nothing lasts forever | Sun Sep 25 1988 00:01 | 50 |
| I've been thinking a lot about the idea of group-work, because
with all of the problems in the world, it seems that there are
many needs for "reform" -- that may require group strength. But
I've been reading an interesting book, "Think On These Things"
by J. Krishnamurti, and he had some interesting things to say
about revolt and reform -- and how vital the condition of the
individual is.
I think considering this subject of "revolt and reform" is very
important because it is why *many* of us would get involved in
working for certain issues. However, I believe it is our
individual understanding and love that is required to actually
bring about a new world -- not just the effort and intellectual
view that something *needs* to be done. Working for causes is
fine...but working on ourselves will make the real difference.
"To revolt within society in order to make it a little better,
to bring about certain reforms, is like the revolt of
prisoners to improve their life within the prison walls; and
such revolt is no revolt at all, it is just mutiny.
"Freedom lies outside the walls, outside the pattern of
society; but to be free of that pattern you have to understand
the whole content of it, which is to understand your own
mind. It is the mind that has created the present
civilization, this tradition-bound culture or society and,
without understanding your own mind, merely to revolt has
very little meaning. That is why it is important to have
self-knowledge, to be aware of all your acitivites, your
thoughts and feelings. Because when you are fully aware
of yourself your mind becomes very sensitive, very alert.
"Revolt born of understanding is an individual breaking away
from society, and that is creative revolution.
"As long as you are concerned with mere reform, with
decorating the bars and walls of the prison, you are not
creative. Reformation always needs further reform, it only
brings more misery, more destruction. Whereas, the mind
that understands this whole structure of acquisitiveness,
of greed, of ambition and breaks away from it -- such a mind
is in constant revolution. It is an expansive, a creative
mind; therefore, like a stone thrown into a pool of still
water, its action produces waves, and those waves will form
a different civilization altogether."
I hope this was new and interesting for some of you to think
about, as it was for me.
Jerri
|
| 870.5 | | GENRAL::DANIEL | still here | Mon Sep 26 1988 13:33 | 3 |
| Since "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link", then in order for the
group to be effective, each individual must be effective. If a group of
effective individuals work together, WOW!
|
| 870.6 | Reply | SCOPE::PAINTER | Wonders never cease. | Mon Sep 26 1988 18:53 | 35 |
|
The book entitled "The Unexplored Self", by Carl Jung addresses
this issue quite succinctly. It is his last work (1957) and stresses
the need for self-knowledge as the most important first step before
any worthwhile work as a group can be effective.
Scott Peck takes this further in his work entitled "The Different
Drum" where he talks about the importance of community as a group of
people which has _recognized_, _accepted_ and _transcended_ their
differences before proceeding on in order to accomplish a certain
goal. Note that this is far different from _ignoring_ the
differences, for this is a pseudo-community as opposed to a real
community.
Last summer I attended a community building workshop put on by the
Foundation for Community Encouragement (FCE - a non-profit organization
founded by Scott Peck). There were 50 of us and we were in a room
for 2 days - 8 hours each day. That was it. We spoke when we felt
led to speak, and didn't speak when we didn't. At the end of it
all we did manage to become a community, and the feeling in the
room was awe-inspiring. It was one of the most positive experiences
of my life, and several people had some major breakthroughs when
they realized that, no matter what they were, looked like, worked
at for a living, etc., that they were accepted by the rest. Although
I had experienced this feeling prior to the workshop, it was wonderful
to see the same experience happen to other people in group setting
(mine was in an individual setting a number of months earlier).
The power of unconditional love can move mountains. It's there
for all of us. I think that those of us who have experienced it
must do our best pass it on. This, more than anything else, is the
most important task we all must dedicate our lives to, for, as Scott
Peck writes, "This is how the world will be saved."
Cindy
|
| 870.7 | Group Process: The Power Squared | VITAL::KEEFE | Bill Keefe - 223-1837 - MLO21-4 | Tue Sep 27 1988 01:33 | 128 |
| [copied without permission from Agartha, pp. 167 - 171, printed
1984. Related to notes 131.19 and 148.0 ]
Group awareness, group effectiveness training, group dynamics and
group counseling are all familiar terms and all hint at the lesson
of recognizing and learning to use group power appropriately and
effectively. Indeed the world needs to learn of group dynamics in
order to move into its new course of harmonious realignment with
the spirit. The usual attitude toward groups is that they are
necessary for some decisions. But is the individual aware that the
energy or power of a group with a common vision, the actual units
of energy generated, increase in direct square proportion to the
size of the group?
If the power of a group can be the number of the people within a
group squared one can quickly see that each group's power
increases exponentially with size. This power is the power of
creative energy which can manifest in specific physical form, not
only making things happen quicker but making them happen in line
with expectation. The actual units of power to change and create
thoughts and actions grow in a greater proportion when in a
harmonious group than in a unintegrated group.
For example, a group of people may get together to start a school.
The collective vision is the same as the individual vision.
Through discussion, and also disagreement, the specifics of the
goal begin to take shape, The people involved in creating the
school have become a unified body with a goal and a means of
reaching that goal. If there are twenty-five people in the group,
25 times 25 (or 25 squared) equals 625 units of viable energy. The
comparison is between 625 units of energy manifested by the
unified group compared with only 25 units of energy which
would have been manifested had they been able to form a unified
body.
Remember: group power equals the square of the number of people
within a group. If there is a group of 100 people who share a
common vision and interact to achieve that goal, then the number
within the group (100) squared equals the group's power (100 X
100 energy units) or 10,000 units of generated energy. And to
complete the example, if there is a group of 100 people who do not
share a common vision but are nonetheless thrown together in a
group, then that group's power is equal only to the simple
addition of the power of each individual member 1 + 1 + 1 + (etc.)
up to 100 to equal 100 units of general energy. As one can see,
those in a small unified group would have potentially more power
than those in a much larger but fragmented group.
Let us consider the world as a group - a group of continents,
bodies of water, and most importantly, a group of people. What
kind of power is it possible for this world group of people to
generate?
Initially, mass awareness is beginning to take shape on an
individual level. It needs to awaken people to their mutual
brotherhood above and beyond regional, religious, ethnic, or
cultural group differences. The largest and therefore most
potentially effective group is the world group. If there are
approximately 4 billion people on Planet Earth, then it would take
a unified group of only about sixty-four thousand to effectively
shift the mode of the planet in favor of that group's energy
(64,000 times 64,000 = 4,096,000,000). In the united States where
there are approximately 225 million people, fifteen thousand
persons with a unified vision would have equivalent power.
It is also possible to affect the necessary planetary changes
through combining smaller but already aligned groups. The key is
man considering himself in the broader context of a planetary
being and working toward this end rather than seeing himself as
only one insignificant part of a fragmented world.
The world as a group can remain a poorly integrated and
ineffective body or it can become a viable unified group. The
world group has options. It possesses the power to manifest mammoth
planetary devastation, destroying much of Earth's life in its
wake. The world group also holds the power to creatively manifest
a different reality, a reality of spiritual awareness, each according
to his own vision. So, which will it be?
.
.
.
While the seeds of the new awareness or consciousness shift are
sprouting and starting to grow in every part of the world,
nevertheless the predominant thrust of man is still toward
aggressive, warlike behavior. This predisposition toward the
aggressive depletes and debilitates the body of the Earth just as surely
as if there were leeches sucking her blood. The physical and
etheric planet cannot withstand this constant bloodletting without
declining into a deeper and deeper depression. The neutralizing of
this depression, the dispelling of this terrible pain, can result
in gigantic physical changes involving every aspect of the
physical Earth.
.
.
the cosmic forces will not prevent physical calamity from touching
Earth if it is brought about by the unwillingness of Earth's
people's to choose an aligned path with the creative forces of the
universe. It is up to Earth to choose. The creation of a
spiritually attuned world can happen with or without the physical
changes which are forming in response to human indifference and
negativity. If man is to turn the tide away from physical
destruction of his planet, then the world group of which I speak
has grave responsibilities. It must learn of its power as a group.
It must learn to be a wise governing body. It must learn to
equally orchestrate for the benefit of all. It must, in fact,
learn to use its own version of personal power. It must find and
use its group power and its group connection to the universe.
This world power is built from individual power just as universal
power is built from world power. All group power systems blend to
create a working, functioning body of total energy. the sooner the
individual becomes aware of his responsibility to himself and his
world group, the sooner the wars and aggression-oriented thinking
will stop. What is currently neutrality will turn to all-out panic
if the complacency and unaligned energies of the planet are not
dealt with before it is too late.
Personal power is the issue at the very heart of the disaster
crisis. For without personal power, the individual will remain
frozen and inactive too long, and all will gradually slide beyond
recognition into depression. With personal power, the individual
and world group will slow the insidious moral and physical decline
by inviting planetary awareness into their lives and openly living
a broader view of their spiritual beliefs. Those of Planet Earth
must become cognizant of the God-given right and responsibility to
challenge the course of human evolution, making course corrections
to change the destiny of man.
|
| 870.8 | Navigator/Spaceship Earth. | PHAROS::SHEPARD | | Tue Sep 27 1988 11:10 | 27 |
| Hi all:
Re- .4 (Jerri)
Krishnamurti ! I was beginning to wonder if anyone really read
him anymore, other than those like me who read him long ago and
never tire of re-reading him at least once/year. "Think on These
Things" and "Flame of Attention" are two of my favorites. Thanks
for including something by JK, Jerri.
As for group work; I have belonged to groups who have used meditation
to effect changes individual lives and to work for progress in
attaining world peace. The power generated in centralized and focused
group meditation *must* be experienced to be appreciated. At present
I belong to and study with two World groups: "The School of Esoteric
Studies/Group of World Servers; and "Meditation Group for the New
Age". Both use focused meditation techniques, but via unified purpose
over a distance and via visualization. This too is producing effects.
Yes, there is a crying need for individual work, for as someone
stated previously, the group is only as strong as the individuals
comprising it. This is why any group will encourage (if not actually
require) its members/participants to work privatly as well. However,
it is generally via group energy that major changes can be wrought,
whether it be in the individual members or in the world.
Ray
|
| 870.9 | The group is a necessary *illusion* | WRO8A::WARDFR | Going HOME--as an Adventurer | Tue Sep 27 1988 13:14 | 18 |
| re: .8
I won't argue with our perceptions of group dynamics...
and I certainly don't want to discourage people from doing some
of the things suggested; I have done many of these things myself
(e.g., OM-ing circles) and can attest to their perceived value.
I do not, however, agree with the final sentence in your reply.
I believe, somewhat as Jerri stated, that the strength and change
does not come from the group but from the individual. Though the
group appears larger and stronger, I believe reality comes from
inside...if the insides are "stronger" then the experience of the
outside will support this. While it is well-intentioned, placing
the power outside of self is not the direction that this energy
should travel. Let the power come from within towards the group,
if you wish, and the results will undoubtably become evident.
Frederick
|
| 870.10 | Additionally... | ATLAST::LACKEY | Make haste slowly. | Tue Sep 27 1988 13:23 | 40 |
| re: .6 & .7 (Cindy and Bill)
GREAT responses! Thanks.
Additionally, for those who have addressed the importance of developing
the individual first, it should be noted that the effect of group work
tends to "drag" the individual along at a faster pace than can be
effected individually because of the very nature of the group dynamic as
stated in (.7).
A couple of years ago, while conducting a program on Relationships, an
individual attending made the comment that it was important to work on
loving yourself _before_ trying to love someone else or serve someone
else in order for it to be successful. I had heard this reasoning
before which was the only thing that kept me from being astounded. Have
you *ever* seen anyone with this attitude get to a point and announce
that they now love themselves enough and they are ready to love or serve
someone else? Personnally, I have never seen anyone get to the stage
where they thought they "loved" themselves enough.
The only reason for bringing this up is that it also applies to the
individuals approach to group work. The progress is made in the *doing*
rather than in the *preparing*. The "doing" and the "preparation" must
go on simultaneously. In fact, the "doing" by its very nature serves
also to prepare for the next step. If we waited for a product to be
perfect before releasing it, it would never be released.
The most grandiose of structures is built one brick at a time. Such is
the way with group work and with the eventual development of the World
Community. It begins with the individual putting attention *outside*
themselves in service and associating directly or indirectly with other
like-minded individuals, forming a group and developing a more global
vision. One brick at a time, the groups will grow out of the individual
efforts to work together. One brick at a time, the groups will begin to
work, support, and cooperate with each other. One brick at a time, the
World Community will be developed.
The vision is profound, as is the responsibility for those who see it.
Jeff
|
| 870.11 | Preventing rather than curing... | ATLAST::LACKEY | Make haste slowly. | Tue Sep 27 1988 13:28 | 9 |
| re .9
Frederick,
Please don't take my reply as a rebuttal to yours. I inserted it
prior to reading yours. Though we may disagree, I was not refering
to your reply.
Jeff
|
| 870.12 | Love is an endless loop, with awareness as the core | WRO8A::WARDFR | Going HOME--as an Adventurer | Tue Sep 27 1988 14:10 | 28 |
| re: .11 (Jeff)
No problem...lots of people disagree with me. Actually,
disagreement is *sometimes* helpful, especially when there is
a tendency to be tenacious about attitudes, for it gives us an
opportunity to look at our beliefs a bit closer than we had
before.
I *DO* disagree, by the way, with the idea of loving self
at the exclusion of others. I do agree with the balance of which
you speak...the balance between doing and being, thinking and
feeling, masculine and feminine, etc. The point I was trying to
latch onto is that too many in our past(s) have tried to get us
to love others while forgetting or ignoring or relegating to second
class the person which we are and which deserves. As I pointed
out to a massage client of mine last week, you cannot love someone
else very well if you are not loving yourself...if you do not love
yourself, you will get sick and make yourself unavailable; if you
do not love yourself, you will carry "baggage" around which others
will intuit (if not apparent) and will adversely affect them; if
you do not love yourself, you will attract that to you which reflects
your own state of "internal affairs". Again, I do not say, "Don't
love others and love yourself, instead," but rather "love yourself
first, and then love others as they earn your love...which is the
best gift you have to offer them, and then love yourself enough
to love them more."
Frederick
|
| 870.13 | rEPLY | CLUE::PAINTER | Wonders never cease. | Tue Sep 27 1988 15:31 | 14 |
|
References - for additional reading on this particular topic, see
in the RELIGION conference the topics entitled "New Age Philosophy"
and "On Loving Thyself".
Given that I was the person to enter in the majority of the extracts
there, feel free to extract them for your own use in this or any
other conference.
There's also a great writing on the signs of inner peace which I
believe describes the first step of self love. I'll include it
in the next message.
Cindy
|
| 870.14 | Love and Inner Peace | CLUE::PAINTER | Wonders never cease. | Tue Sep 27 1988 15:36 | 51 |
| I know I've put this in here before, however it seems appropriate
to enter it again.
------------------------------------------------------------------
SYMPTOMS OF INNER PEACE
-----------------------
Watch for signs of Peace. The hearts of a great many have already
been exposed to it, and it seems likely that we could find our society
experiencing it in epidemic proportions.
Some signs and symptoms of inner peace:
1) Tendency to think and act spontaneously rather than from
fear based on past experiences.
2) An unmistakable ability to enjoy each moment.
3) Loss of interest in judging other people.
4) Loss of interest in judging self.
5) Loss of interest in interpreting the actions of others.
6) Loss of interest in conflict.
7) Loss of ability to worry (a very serious symptom).
8) Frequent, overwhelming episodes of appreciation.
9) Contented feeling of connectedness with others and nature.
10) Frequent attacks of smiling through the eyes from the heart.
11) Increasing tendency to let things happen rather than make
things happen.
12) Increased susceptibility to Love extended by others as well
as the uncontrollable urge to extend it.
If you have all or even most of the above symptoms, please be advised
that your condition may be to far advanced to turn back. If you
are exposed to anyone exhibiting several of these symptoms, remain
exposed at your own risk. This condition of Inner Peace is likely
well in its infectuous stage. Be Forewarned.
***************Reprinted without permission*****************
Courtesy of the Olympia Fellowship of Reconciliation Newsletter
1986
|
| 870.15 | Where are we going? | ORION::HERBERT | Nothing lasts forever | Tue Sep 27 1988 23:59 | 57 |
| Re: .10 (Jeff)
Although the effect of group work can move an individual along at a
faster pace than can be effected individually, I wonder WHAT it is
they're being moved along to??
Sure, people learn things no matter what they're doing...but that
doesn't mean they deeply understand, and that they're not simply
replacing one structure with another. People who want to "help",
have many different motives, which may have nothing to do with a
deep understanding. One may argue, "What does it matter WHY people
do things as long as they work on a good project?" Well, because
those people, because of a lack of understanding, can easily replace
one bad structure with another...which will bring pain and problems
of its own.
Many groups start out with good intentions, but they get caught up
in their cause and stop being open. That's mental death, and
destructive to us all. They simply form another, very limited,
belief system.
Certainly it is an extreme for someone to ignore everyone else while
they "work on themselves". But I feel that truly working on
yourself is what brings you together with others, in a way that you
can't do if you try! So, a person can look into themself, gain some
clarity, and then be able to work in a group without bringing all of
their personal "garbage" along for everyone to deal with. Surely
this is more effective.
It would be unreasonable to expect that someone has to become
perfect before they can get involved in working with others. This
is a lifelong process! But, personal understanding (love) is the
only way we can stop replacing one problem structure with another...
which is what groups will continue to do if the individuals aren't
clear on things.
> The most grandiose of structures is built one brick at a time. Such is
> the way with group work and with the eventual development of the World
> Community. It begins with the individual putting attention *outside*
> themselves in service and associating directly or indirectly with other
> like-minded individuals, forming a group and developing a more global
> vision. One brick at a time, the groups will grow out of the individual
> efforts to work together. One brick at a time, the groups will begin to
> work, support, and cooperate with each other. One brick at a time, the
> World Community will be developed.
Questions this brings up for me are, WHAT are we building and why?
How will we *know* if we don't first look inside and become clearer,
ourselves? If we join groups, without gaining our own understanding,
how will we know what we're supporting, and the true motives behind the
organizers? (I mean no offense by my questioning...I'm questioning to
explore and learn.)
I think it's imperative that we know ourselves, unless we want to replace
the current corrupt system with another.
Jerri
|
| 870.16 | You CAN be Republican and into Alternate Religions | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | DO WHAT THOU WILT | Wed Sep 28 1988 05:56 | 63 |
|
Groups, I HATE groups, I hate all groups, if there is one thing
I cant stand it's groups!!! Lets join together and abolish groups
forever!!!!
Actually, Im sorta kidding...My work with various groups through
my rather short life...(so far)...has not been negative..however..
unfortunately all too often I see groups holding people from further
development on a personal level.
When I was a good little boy and went to church religiously, (no
bashing intended just think of it as "storytime") My church was
going to send me to the Dominican Republic as a "teen missionary".
(I was a fine result of several prime years of brainwashing). I
at first accepted but later felt something "not right" and declined
the offer forever banishing myself from the limelight of "Christian
Ministry". anyway...... Now in reflection I can see that the Decons
and Congregation would of rather supported something away from home
to make them feel like they were doing something than have to have
their neighbors see that they were "Christians".
World Hunger organizations I believe do the same thing to some extent
in that there are people that are dying of starvation and exposure
in New York City. (some do it by choice but thats another matter)
People are so willing to send cash to some far off land but hesitate
to bring hot soup down to the local bus station during some cold
night. The effects of which would improve the total cohesiveness
<sp?> of the township over a period of time.
I believe most of the problems of the world today would be solved
if we kept our grubby little fingers in our own pie, financially
helped local groups and participated directly to ensure that the
individual needs were being met...as we saw them. If someone wishes
to do something above that...congrats!! Go ahead!!
I therefore am not a member of any group or organization but contribute
as I see the need in my community by offering my time and energy
and $ when I beleve it is the best way to help. My wife at times
calls me a sap for lending things to others, helping them by providing
a bartering deal when they need $. But the friends we have that
we have met through helping them this way are going to be around
for some time. and have helped us also.
Now I have been asked to be an Editor of a Pagan, Enviornmentalist,
newsletter. ( OH NO!!! NOT ANOTHER ONE!!!) I am certain that it
has nothing to do with my contacts with the Commercial Art and
Printing industries. ;-) But it might be an interesting experiance.
However this will be the first "real group" I have delt with for
some time and I have my cynical doubts.
In closing I would like to comment on Fredericks note which had
the line "Love others as they earn your love". Unfortunately I tend
to agree. Although at first I attempt to "Love the unlovable", and
at times it pays off! It is important to remember that there are
people who by choice or fate refuse to learn. They are unable to
work with groups in a benificial way and seem to dislike themselves
and the world around them.
Be picky about the company you keep.
Hope I didn't go too far off the subject.
Craig
|
| 870.17 | Love all... | VITAL::KEEFE | Bill Keefe - 223-1837 - MLO21-4 | Wed Sep 28 1988 14:40 | 45 |
| re .16 and
>In closing I would like to comment on Fredericks note which had
>the line "Love others as they earn your love". Unfortunately I tend
>to agree. Although at first I attempt to "Love the unlovable", and
I think taking that one line out of context changes Fredericks meaning.
The whole statement was: "Don't love others and love yourself, instead,"
but rather "love yourself first, and then love others as they earn
your love...which is the best gift you have to offer them, and then
love yourself enough to love them more."
I also think that we need to be sensitive to each person and the
individual needs inherent in each situation. I prefer the following
"formula" if you want to call it that:
Mentally work your way through the following list to the place where
you feel it is appropriate to share:
1. LOVE THE GOD FIBER in those people whose earthly demeanor makes
it impossible for communication on a conscious level.
2. LOVE FROM A DISTANCE those beings who tolerate social conversation
but who discourage more meaningful communication.
3. LOVE THE SHARED FRIENDSHIP in those who are anxious to share
their love and awareness.
4. LOVE THE ONENESS in those people with whom you can share all
that you feel, all that you have learned, aspirations and misgivings,
personal and cosmic.
Of the above, the only stage that might need clarification is the
first. This might also be stated as "sensing the common cosmic link
among people". The essence of this is to wish all others well,
helping specifically those where it is possible. In those cases where
it is not possible, where there can be no sharing, it is enough that
we set them free to effectively follow their own path. Release in love
each individual to his/her own cosmic reality whenever and wherever
that may be, harboring no sense of rejection or self-pity for the
unrealized exchange or relationship.
- Bill
|
| 870.18 | questions,questions,questions, | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | DO WHAT THOU WILT | Thu Sep 29 1988 08:15 | 61 |
|
re .17 Bill
Your formula seems to say "love others as (to the degree that)
others allow you to love them."
or
your will/(level of love outgoing) should be subjective to the
will/(level of desired love) of the other.
Well what if the person doesn't want love or better
yet, feels he/she is deserving of a greater amount/level of
love than you believe, or care to give? ;-}
What if we were to draw some lines here from these few notes
on love and apply them to group activity.
I dont know how realistic this is but for fun lets assume that
love in a group is not "love" but "personal work Ethic".
you are group leader.
Different people in your group have different levels
of work ethic. The amount of attention some people put on work
far exceeds the amount of others. On the other hand some people
are bound to have a negative work ethic. Disrupting the work
of others and possibly destroying the means to achieve the goal
all together.
Do you treat those with a poor work ethic the same as
those with one you wish you could bottle and sell?
Is it healthy to allow those with a negative effect
on work to stay? Would you feel guilty about letting
them go, knowing that THEY brought this on themselves
and it is really a problem that they will have to deal
with???
NOW... Do you treat those with little love, low self worth,
the same as those who let love flow endlessly?
Is it healthy to allow those with neg-Love, immature
love, continued presence in your groups? Would you feel
guilty about not loving them? Knowing that they almost
feed off of your love and use it in place of love for
themselves? That this is a problem that they will have
to face personally and that while you let them "feed"
off you they will put off addressing the problem?
Is it, in a way, kinder and more loving to shun them
that they will be forced to face these issues than to
allow the poor little parasites to feed off you and
your group? Possibly never reaching a point when they
will choose to be a independent individual?
I will stick with "Love others as they earn your love" just as I
would "Respect others as they earn my respect". If they have no
self respect, or love, should I allow them to disrupt/burden mine?
or my groups??
Craig
|
| 870.19 | Love is lifting us higher... | PHAROS::SHEPARD | | Thu Sep 29 1988 12:30 | 17 |
| Jerri (re .15)
I agree, in essence, with your incisive observations. It is my
experience (and the observation of almost all the true 'masters'
of every discipline with which I am familiar) that we must work
on ourselves before we can truely discern where we are to go.
Sometimes we can do this in concert with group work, sometimes not;
depends upon our individual proclivities and psychological/emotional
construction. Working on the self is *part* of what brings us
together; there is also another factor involved.
As to what we are building and why? The answer becomes obvious
as you increase the intensity of the question and the desire for
a clear answer.
Navigator
|
| 870.20 | Love is lifting us Higher... | PHAROS::SHEPARD | | Thu Sep 29 1988 12:38 | 12 |
| Craig: (re.18)
Your question: "If they [others] have no self-respect, or love,
should I allow them to disrupt/burden mine? or my groups??"
It is precisely these people who can be most helped - those with
little or no self-respect and/or self-love. These are not to be
regarded as a disruption or burden, but as the reward for attaining
whatever level of self-respect/self-love you have. As you have
received/attained, so give to others.
Navigator
|
| 870.21 | | GENRAL::DANIEL | still here | Thu Sep 29 1988 13:26 | 12 |
| The only thing I can do is to love to the best of my ability to, and
understanding of, love.
To relate this to Group Work, I would say that I would not be able to work well
in a group where I felt there was someone whom I did not love. However, my
present understanding of love leads me to believe that I feel some type of
love, as illustrated in Bill Keefe's note on the different "levels", if you
will, of love, for everyone I know and/or meet. If I were to have some type of
problem with someone in the group, I would assume that the type of group I
would choose would lead to my being able to freely express the difficulty so
that we could work through it.
|
| 870.22 | It's all a matter of timing | BSS::VANFLEET | 6 Impossible Things Before Breakfast | Thu Sep 29 1988 16:33 | 15 |
| re .20
First let me say that I agree with you in regard to those
people with little self/love/respect needing help. However,
I also think that when we're ready for the lesson the teacher
will appear. In situations where I meet someone who seems
to be in need many times I will offer help. Then I observe
to see what is done with the help. If it appears that the
person becomes dependant on my help/support and is not making
any apparent personal effort then I cut off the support. I
feel that, in this case, I am not only draining my own energy,
but I am doing them a disservice by possibly trying to force
them into growth that they're not ready for.
Nanci
|
| 870.23 | sounds like puppy/self love to me. | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | DO WHAT THOU WILT | Fri Sep 30 1988 04:18 | 24 |
|
RE .20
comments,
1) If we help the parasitic by giving them something to feed
off of, (in effect feeding the illness) we are not really
helping/loving them as you claim.
2) Not a disruption but reward....Are we righteous enough to
do that? Give ourselfs rewards??? Yes, It does make us feel good
that we are takiing care of something undeserving. (Feeding it,
walking with it, teaching/training it.) Are we talking people
or puppies??? This would appear to me to be immature, self-gratifying
for us, and de-humanizing of the other. Are we treating humans like
dogs with this "all-deceiving puppy love" or are we going to encourage
them to experiance true growth?
3)"As you have received/attained so give to others" EXCELLENT!!!
all I am saying is that we should give to those that are capeable
of receiving.
Craig ;-)
|
| 870.24 | How do you group I N D I V I D U A L S ? | ORION::HERBERT | Nothing lasts forever | Sun Oct 02 1988 16:34 | 16 |
| Re: .23
But how can we judge someone so accurately, so completely...to
know exactly who they are, where they are, what they deserve,
and what they need? ANYONE can CHANGE from moment to moment.
Why can't we simply treat the person as seems appropriate and
feels good to us, at the moment? If that means avoidance, fine.
If that means loving, fine. It doesn't really matter whether
they can be viewed as "parasitic". Again...it would still only
be OUR perception of them -- and it could be wrong! There is no,
one, answer for dealing with someone in that state of mind.
People are so incredibly different...what helps one, may not help
another....and one person may be able of "coming out" of a
certain state of mind, while someone else may not.
Jerri
|
| 870.25 | by not grouping indivduals | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | DO WHAT THOU WILT | Mon Oct 03 1988 04:07 | 19 |
|
RE: .24
Can we judge accurately? I doubt it, but I can only make decisions
for myself based on actions I have observed. I would hope that
people would act in ways identical with their true selfs moment
to moment. Do they? No. But that is their problem.
< "Why can't we simply treat the person as seems appropriate."
As long as we are doing the judging based on our scale and not someone
elses.
I dont see "avoidance" as fine but more like a uresolved
issue/block. I dont see any benifit in avoidance by anyone.
overall though I agree with you.
Craig
|
| 870.26 | Voluntary work | CGVAX2::PAINTER | One small step... | Tue Aug 15 1989 15:29 | 27 |
| From: PICA::SHIRE::CASEE::VNS "The VOGON News Service 15-Aug-1989 1009" 15-AUG-1989 06:37:57.18
To: VNS-Distribution
Subj: VNS #1881
Digital - Wendy Mather receives Queen's Award of British Empire Medal
Wendy Mather, Personnel Administrator in Reading, UK, has received the
Queen's Award of the British Empire Medal for her work with Digital's UK
Charitable Society. The British Empire Medal is awarded by the Queen on the
recommendation of the Prime Minister to people who have done "good works,"
many of which are for charity. Wendy started the UK's Charitable Society four
years ago. The Charitable Society is supported by employees having deductions
taken from their pay every month, and this amount is matched by the company.
Based on the wishes of the donors, the Charitable Committee then distributes
the money to suitable projects. "We have had about 2,000 employees involved
and have raised $200,000 during the last fiscal year," said Wendy. "In the
four years since we started we have raised about $500,000." Some of the
organizations supported include Save the Children, ActionAid (a project in the
Sudan helping 12,000 people to have better lives), the Sue Ryder Foundation
(countrywide hospices), and the (UK) National Society for the Protection of
Children. Other donations have gone for hearing dogs for the deaf and guide
dogs for the blind, cancer and Multiple Sclerosis research, and to the British
Heart Foundation, Oxfam, and Bangladesh. Wendy has worked in the Personnel
Department in Reading for 22 years. She has decided to work full-time for the
Charitable Society, which is based in the Public Relations Department in
Queens House, Reading. In the past, she worked for the Society on a voluntary
basis.
|