Conference hydra::dejavu

These perceptions using the rubics cube are good ones.  Someone once told 
me we are not just a speck of dust in the universe of life(s).  The only 
scientific fact that Reincarnation can be justified in is that we inherit 
the genes from our ancestors.  That there would always be one tiny bit of 
memory of lives past due to the evolution of one's roots.  There have been 
documented past lives through clinical surveys which are even more 
accurate.  Although reincarnation is a personal experience unto our 
individual souls or entities incorporating surrounding entities a good 
source of incarnate experiences may be read in "Search for a Soul", author 
Jess Stern where under clinical techniques, Taylor Caldwell was regressed 
through numerous lives.  Only one of many good books on the subject.

If one believes in God, one also must believe in the trinity.  And if we 
were created in his image we are also created within the trinity.  Body, 
mind and spirit.  As a believer in reincarnation and then an obvious 
believer that the soul or spirt is within us all, an OOB experience when 
dreaming or meditating is comprehend'able'.  Due to the complex enormity of 
our subconscious, however, we need to understand the differences between 
what our subconscious mind is telling our conscious mind vs past_life_ 
experience_dreams or OOB to another realm.  I remember once, at a prayer 
group where we would meditate or experience such energies (being "slain) 
how I was telling of one of my experiences that I had in my bedroom one 
evening.  I had been part of this group for months, but after a mortician 
criticized my "experience" as being an hallucination, I never went back.  I 
felt that what I had had was personal to me, was looking for an 
interpretation of it, but instead was asked if I had had too much to drink 
before going to bed that nite. (FLAME)  The important thing to remember is 
to be able to decipher what you believe to be what *it* is trying to present 
itself as.

>>...if we are created in the image of and are similar in stature and power 
to the Ultimate Conciousness then we also have the power to create our own 
set of circumstances here on Earth simply by willing it to be so.<<

Well, if it is only for our "selves" and it does not influence other 
people's will (unless their *will* is open to receive) than, yes, it is so. 
I have often entered many *requests* into the Universal Subconsious and 
have received what I have asked for (after much specific thought) "To think 
is to be for there is no such thing as ""time"", as we know it.  But a 
question still arises:  If we pre-destined our souls to live the course it 
is living, then how do we know the difference between "creating our own set 
of circumstances.....by willing it" vs what we predestined our*selves* to 
receive.

Cheryl

John,

   Did you see the following sentence of the base note?

   >  Christ also stated that all we have to do is "believe" and we can do 
   >  all those things that He did. 
    
   Have you tried the experiment yet??? ;-)))

   Terry

    
    
    Sarcasm .. however light hearted .. has always been a serious
    impediment to discussing any topic with any veracity.
    
    Perhaps a refresher in American Heritage
    
    To Believe= To accept as true or real; To credit with veracity,
    to have confidence in; to trust; To expect to suppose to think,
    to hold a religious belief.
    
    It isn't my intention to instruct on the English language nor to
    expound on common orthodox belief systems. I personally haven't
    been to a church since I was 14 .. I am now 35 and I don't "believe"
    in any form of current socially acceptable orthodox christian-based
    religions or churches. My intent is to get some serioous discussion
    going on here as to whether we as individuals have what it takes
    to get off this limited plane of experience and move to a bigger
    picture.
    
    Of course this may not be suitable for some people's intellects.

    
    RE: .0
    	I dont want to go off the track too much but...for those of
    you who meditate every now and then...
    	A really nifty method to "get deep" is too bring yourself down
    and then visualise that you are meditating at another location.
    (meditate in your bedroom but invision yourself in your livingroom)
    Then continue the meditation.
    	The result is that when catch yourself doing something you cant
    do, run into a block ect.... you "Zap" back to your meditative location
    not your actual one. This way you dont have to spend so much time
    re-establishing the meditative state all over again....word of
    caution... be prepared to be very confused when you wake up and
    find yourself in a different room than you thought you were in.
    
    sorry but the topic note brought this to mind please move it to
    another topic if need be.
    
    Craig

    
    	Obviously, human nature has formed reality as we know it.
    Individually, our perception of this reality determines it's impact
    on each one of us - this is where the idea of "belief" comes in
    to play. Whatever you choose to believe, your perception of reality 
    will likely follow. 
    
    	More interesting to me is the wholistic effect, where reality
    *really* shifts due to a number of people believing the same thing,
    together. 
    
    	Perhaps if everyone believed strongly that everyone else "is
    my friend", today's reality would be a better place for all.
                
    	Joe Jas
    

    RE.3 (Bucuvalas)                                                     
    
    >Sarcasm .. however light hearted .. has always been a serious
    >impediment to discussing any topic with any veracity.
     
    This is _your_ belief.  I happen to disagree with _your_ belief.
                                                                
    As for your comment on intellect, etc.....see below.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    
      The darkness of conceited intellect is worse than the darkness
    	of ignorance.
    
    			Dr. Rammamurti Misra
    			Isha Upanishad commentary                     
    
    ------------------------------------------------------------------   

    
    Back to the note in .0 - thanks for entering that.  I found it most
    interesting.
    
    Cindy

I thought that this was DEJAVU ... not SOAPBOX or some such other file.
    The perception to .2 ... on my part .... was one of attack. Perhaps
    I was wrong..............but it would have show a greater stance
    in conviction had .6 signed his reply.
    
    However, the purpose of any discussion is not total or even partial
    agreement. To my way of thought, the p[urpose of discussion is to
    arrive at a logical conclusion. 
    
    Whether a person likes or dislikes what another person says is of
    no true consequence.
    
    The gathering of accurate information is of greater value.
    
    Samurai_Writer

re: .8 <AISVAX::BUCUVALAS>


    >I thought that this was DEJAVU ... not SOAPBOX or some such other file.
    >    The perception to .2 ... on my part .... was one of attack. Perhaps
    >    I was wrong..............but it would have show a greater stance
    >    in conviction had .6 signed his reply.

    Whoa.... Attack???  The reply was in reference to a discussion a few weeks
    ago with John Mitchell and was not at all directed towards you.  That's
    why I addressed it to John.  (BTW, it was a serious discussion).  The
    statement I referenced pertained to that discussion.  I do appologize if
    I offended you.  It was not at all intended.
    
    Terry

    I'm very sorry Terry! I've been through alot of stress lately and
    I think (master of the obvious here) that I'm over sensitized.
    
    PLease accept my apologies....they are sincere,
    
    Lenny

    
    RE.6 signing note...Cindy
    
    My apologies as well.

    Re .0 & .2
    
    Hi John & Terry:
    
    Ahhhh....., but what constitutes 'belief'?  Many 'believe', yet
    can do nothing to alter their circumstances.  Others 'believe' and
    can indeed do 'greater things'.  So, there must be either a difference
    in the quality of belief or in what one believes 'in' or 'on'. 
    btw.  This is a serious question, not a flippant remark.
    
    Ray

    RE: .12 
    
    Flight of The Navigator eh/................;-)
    
    I'm not sure that belief is enough. I think that when the message
    to believe was delivered .. it was delivered in such a fashion that
    society in that time period could understand it.
    
    According to some of the books in the Castaneda series.......don
    Juan states we must "shake up" our perception of what reality is
    in order to develop the ability to view the greater whole. He goes
    to imply that with the ability to view the greater reality also
    comes the ability to expand conciousness with which we can travel
    into that plane (bear with me words are beginning to fail). 
    
    For myself...I've experienced enough to realize that there is a
    world of experience that occasionally intersecets with ours. And
    there are more and more people who can touch base with that "world".
    I feel as tho I am one step away from ripping down a major block
    in my mind.....it's just that I am running out of knowledge. I don't
    knwo what to do anymore.
    
    The Seth Material states there are souls who have established their
    individual conciousness such that they can reach down to us in order
    to help us reach up to them. It also goes on to state there are
    certain masters that have tried to teach us throughout the ages.
    
    Anyone know about this? Perhaps this is the key?
    
    Samurai_Writer

    re: .12 (Ray)
    
        Yes, I agree.  Thanks for asking a question which I will
    be only too happy to provide an answer given to us by Lazaris.
    He has stated that all of us have the same reality creation
    tools available to us.  They are: desire, expectation and imagination.
    To the extent that each of us has different focus or degrees
    of impeccability towards each of those three, is to the extent
    that we produce different realities...even when the intention is
    the same.
    
    Frederick
    

                                                                 
                                                                 
    RE: 12                                                       
                                                                 
    I'd like to get a feeling from other readers as to what their
    interpretation is regarding 'Belief'.  Altho I 'believe' in anything
    and everything that is probable or possible, I don't believe I've
    experienced much in that line.  From all the books I've read, I've
    come to believe in many things as being true.....thru documentations,
    etc.                                                         
                                                                 
    What is your feeling as to the following question:  "Do the more
    knowledgeable of spirit/soul/entitie/guardian angle type forces
    reach out to you when "you" think you are ready to receive or when
    "they" feel you are ready to receive?  or is it all up to us on
    this plane of existance?
    
    
    Confusedly....Cheryl
                                                                 

    RE: .14
    
    I would truely like to belive in channeling but I have problems
    with it. Although I did state cases from the Seth Material which
    is also about a channeled entity, I'm not so sure I buy into it.
    
    Is Lazaris the actual Lazarus of Bible fame? 
    
    And can I meet someone who can prove to me conclusively that this
    is real???????
    
    Samurai_Writer AKA....Lenny

    re .15 Cheryl
    
    In answer to your question, I think that the answers are
    always available to us but if we're not ready to hear
    them then it doesn't matter how loudly they're given -
    we won't be listening.  Therefore, the receiver has to
    be "open" for the answer to be given.
    
    Does this help?
    
    Nanci
    

re: .15 (Cheryl - part 1)

>   I'd like to get a feeling from other readers as to what their
>   interpretation is regarding 'Belief'.  

This is personal and definitely not recommended for everyone, but for 
me, belief plays no part whatsoever regarding reality, the Universe, and 
the understanding thereof.  I do not _believe in_ anything.  I either 
_know_, or _don't know_.  It is simply a matter of knowledge and 
experience versus uncertainties.  If I am not sure of something it 
simply goes in the mental "file" as "unknown", "logical but not sure", 
or some such category until such time as the information is verified or 
discredited.  When I am sure of something, it means that it is known 
from personal experience; it is recognized from experience in this 
incarnation, or it is internally recognized as truth from previous 
experience.

This method works well for me because it allows me to speak confidently 
of those things about which I have some measure of knowledge, and it 
prevents me from addressing issues about which I do not have a clear 
understanding.  If I do make a statement with which I am not confident, 
it is qualified with something like, "I'm not sure, but it would seem 
that..."

For me it is not enough to act as though things are this way or that 
way simply because it is the current belief.  The *knowledge* must be 
there in order to act responsibly and harmlessly.  

What about incorrect or misperceived knowledge?  The definition of 
knowledge in this context (which is a little more rigid and narrow 
than the dictionary would define it) is that information which is 
experientially verified or directly cognized.  Information which has 
been experientially verified or cognized in the past (however long ago 
doesn't matter) can be *re*cognized and is just as valid.  Knowledge 
gained through experience cannot be incorrect. It can, however, be 
incomplete.  Knowledge doesn't really change, but it does becomes more 
*clear* in our awareness with time.  This is because it is possible for 
our experience to be incomplete, and we can only cognize to the degree 
of our mental capacity.  However, our karmic responsibility is tied to 
our level of experience (knowledge), not to the *lack* of experience.

...pause here while I *re*cognize the necessity to take a breath...

Jeff

re: .15 (Cheryl - part 2)

>   What is your feeling as to the following question:  "Do the more
>   knowledgeable of spirit/soul/entitie/guardian angle type forces
>   reach out to you when "you" think you are ready to receive or when
>   "they" feel you are ready to receive?  or is it all up to us on
>   this plane of existance?

More like when we *prove* we are ready. 

(In addition to Nanci's reply, not in place of it.)

Jeff

Cheryl, what Nanci said in .17 is something I accept, also.

I believe in things that I can experience through the senses of my body; I 
believe that my senses do not deliver 100% of what's there (maybe because my 
mind is filtering).  I believe that science is a system of understanding in 
the world, but that there are other systems of understanding as well, and I 
believe that there are some systems of understanding, of which we are, as of 
yet, unaware.  As I believe, so it is real for me.  I can speak of reality in 
my terms; no other.

    re: .17 Nanci
    
         I agree.  The help is always there...remember there is no
    time and space on other "dimensions" or "levels."  Out of their
    respect and love for us, they do not force themselves onto us.
    (This would go counter to free will, wouldn't it?)  It takes our
    reaching for it...which for most of us is beyond what we "normally"
    consider.  
    
    re: .16
         Lenny, this has been answered, albeit poorly, in other notes.
    The quick answer is that "NO," we cannot prove any of this stuff
    concerning channels, etc.  Neither can many of them be disproven.
    Seth and Lazaris fall into the latter group.  The point is, are
    you open enough to consider the information?  If so, does it make
    sense to you?  Is there consistency within it?  Does it help (when
    applied) you in your life?  Does the information help you validate
    and love yourself?  Does it give power back to you (along with
    your own taking of responsibility?)  And on and on...If it has
    value for you, pay attention.  If it doesn't, find something which
    does.  Accept unquestioningly?  NO, that is not wise.  Ask questions...
    for understanding.
    
    Frederick
    
    
    
    

    
    
    re .17 and everyone else  :-)
    
    
    HELP then.....when is the "time" to receive?  During Meditation
    (I always fall asleep, but I do wake up with the requested time
    period)...When Dreaming?   When one goes into the bathroom....boy,
    that seems to be the ONLY time I get peace and quiet....and actually
    let my mind *relax*...even if I'm setting my hair!  
    
    Seem too to get a lot of mental activity or pictures....and I'm
    not sure what it is.
    
    As a third person once, in a dream, I was in someone's living room,
    turn of the century....right around the time electricity was invented
    (maybe have my years off here) and I could see a father with his
    wife (she had a Gibson style hairdo) and with a daughter...with
    banana curls...long light hair...I could describe it or draw a picture
    of this perfectly.  That was it!  nothing else...no other activity,
    just a short "movie".....
    
    I don't know why I added that....
    
    Cheryl

                         
    Lenny,
    
    You may be interested in a book entitled "Channelling", by Jon Klimo.
    In it there is something for the skeptic and (uh) believer alike. 
    I've read parts of it and found it to be quite good.
    
    This note reminds me a lot of Jonathan Livingston Seagull...perhaps
    another book to read if you haven't already.  It reads fast - 2
    hours max.
    
    What I have noticed on the physical plane is that once I reach a
    certain level of understanding and verbalize it in a conference
    (DEJAVU and others, for example), people who see where I'm at in
    terms of my own level of spiritual growth often contact me offline
    and point me in the direction of the next 'lesson'.  I also believe
    in God and recognize the Higher Power at work behind it all.  It's
    subtle but it is there, for me anyway, nonetheless.
                 
    What is below is just my opinion...more or less...
    
    Dreams are a way of your subconscious 'communicating' to you.  Take
    this one more level up to something more conscious and you end up
    with visions.  Take this up one more level and you have direct contact
    with your guide(s)/Higher Self whenever you wish to communicate
    with them.  I'm not at the fully conscious level yet.  I do have
    'visions' - things that 'pop into my head when I'm in a quiet
    meditation state (prayer, relaxation, etc.)....answers to questions
    I ask, questions to the answers that are already there, and so on.
    Nothing terribly earthshattering though.
    
    If you are a hardcore skeptic and don't believe in any of this
    stuff, then chances are that you will never be contacted by anyone
    or anything since you have a barrier/wall preventing any kind of
    exchange of this type at all, hence the skeptic creates their own
    reality where this doesn't exist...and for them it truly doesn't.
    
    Still a mere beginner when it comes to YCYOR, etc.
    
    Cindy
    

    Cheryl,
    
    You're asking tough questions today.  Granted, in order to
    receive a message your personal receiver (radio) has to be 
    set "on".  But in order to "hear" the message you have to
    be actively listening.  Then in order to understand the
    message you have to have some knowledge of the form and
    terms in which the message is communicated.  What all this
    boils down to is....it varies.  I find that when I receive
    a message from the great beyond (not from my conciousness)
    it usually comes upon me unawares.  I get a feeling in the
    pit of my stomache (similar to the love at first sight
    physical reaction).  Then I find words coming out of my
    mouth that don't have any basis in my concious mind.  I
    don't know how it is for anybody else, but that's what
    happens to me.
    
    Nanci

    
    Cheryl,
    
    > Do the more knowledgeable of the spirit/soul/ect... angel type
    > forces reach out to you when "you" think you are ready to receive
    > or when "they" feel you are ready to receive.
    
    	Well I would have to say that the forces/force reaches out to
    you after you request it. Once requested those who are ready achieve
    communication with their "Guardian". Those who arn't ready dont
    reconize the presence, or possibly get an experiance that could
    be confusing.
    
    .22  > When is it time to receive.
    
    	I try to narrow my receiving time down to the times that
    I am breathing. I use Meditation, Tarot, ect,ect... as a means
    to sort out what has already been learned/experianced.
    	I think actual development occurs in the everyday stuff such
    as work, school, how we handle situations, and our attitudes towards
    those situations. Frequently we dont see the beauty, glory,
    and power of the whole picture till we sit and sort it all out via
    dreams, meditation, ect...
                 
    
    Craig

    Cheryl,

    I agree with Craig and some of the other replies.  What most of us
    seem to forget about in seeking out this guidance is that we are
    living in the physical world.  We have choosen to come here for a
    specific purpose.  Those force(s) that are there, I feel, are there
    to help us realize and achieve the purpose(s) for this existance.
    Lots of times we seek out guidance to help us move above or take
    us away from the mundane and from our day-to-day problems.  When this 
    is our purpose in seeking help, I feel we have 'tuned out' and don't
    really hear the messages or sometimes we hear, but our ego convinces
    us to ignore them.  We have to remember that we must work through these 
    experiences and get to the real issues.  To this end, we do have help.
    
    Basically, we have three aspects that must remain in balance.  Mind,
    Body and Spirit.  If we lean too far in any direction we are out of
    balance.  When we emerse ourselves in spiritual activities (ie, seeking
    guidance to 'make the world go away'), we tend to neglect of the others.
    When this happens, things can go amuck.

    Anyway, what I guess what I'm trying to say in answer to one of your
    questions, is that guidance is there if we ask and ask for the right
    reasons.  Ask for a new BMW and you may not get it.  Ask for guidance
    on how to resolve a realtionship problem in such a way that all involved
    may benefit, you will probably get pointed in the right direction -
    if you choose to listen and follow.  Craig's point about meditation and
    working with dreams and other ways of using (safe) altered states of 
    consciousness (for me, painting and drawing) can really help sensitize
    you (tune you in) to such guidance.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry    

    Interesting discourse. Yet let me toss another curve atcha all!
    
    NOW PLEASE.....remember that I truely DO NOT support ANY organized
    religous group! 
    
    My "shtick" is to search for the beginning in any endeavor ....
    to trace its path to the present in anattempt to define the validity
    or non-validity of a given subject. I recognize that much of any
    research will be subjective and respect and desire greatly ALL points
    of view.
    
    From what I have been able to discover, Judaism was the first attempt
    at a true understanding of the metaphysical laws that govern our
    universe; excepting of course Buddhism whcih has been around longer
    than most can figure out.
    
    From the Judaic texts came a good deal of today's Bible (please
    bear with me)......alot of the Biblical textwas influnced by the
    Essennes who it was reputed were masters (of a sort) in many
    metaphycial concepts/techniques. 
    
    Some of what I have read states that the soul (conciousness if you
    prefer) of each of us is a frasgment from a major soul formed (from
    what? and by whom/what) millenia in the past. Envision a puzzle....each
    piece belongs to the same picture yet each pice is unrecognizable
    until it has been assembled with all the rest in a collective assemble.
    And ... of course ... there is a finite number of puzzles available
    to purchase. So it has been told to me that there is a finite number
    of souls/entities who have ...for whatever reason....fragmented
    into millions of pieces and each piece is trying to rejoin wioth
    its own group to reform the original soul/conciousness that it came
    from. Also this has abeen related to the 144,000 spoken of in
    revelation (much of which was influenced by the Essennes)....and
    that once the 144,000 have been 'assembled?' a new world order will
    proceed that will suplant automatically the order formed by our
    fathers and mothers and atheir direct ancestral parentages.
    
    Any feed back or have I been chasing my tail again?
    
    Samurai_Writer

                                           
    I read somewhere that the human mind contains the entire Truth,
    but it's just that our negative ego gets in the way of us actually
    realizing this.  The example given was that of a hologram - where
    no matter how much you break it up, the whole is contained in each
    piece, no matter how small.  And yet all the pieces could ultimately
    come back together to reflect The Mind.   
    
    It would also seem that these days now that the capability to
    communicate over large distances (via notes conferences, etc.),
    is bringing us all of 'like minds' closer to other 'like minds'.
    
    Interesting.  Please continue.                                  
    
    Cindy

    Hi Cindy! What you just explained was the portion of Buddhism entitled
    "The Lotus Sutra". This portion explains that all Truthe is contained
    in all things and that the sum total of Crewation can and is expressed
    and contained even in one living cell. 
    
    I admittedly am beginning to reach the Outer Limits of my own
    understanding. It seems that there have been alot of clues that
    may point in this direction ..... so many colloquial sayings such
    as "birds of a feather flock together" ... Like minds attract like
    minds" ... etc ..... in many ancient texts ... humanity is described
    as brother and sister to each other throughout or race. 
    
    I am groping for the right words but cannot grasp them.......is
    there a theoretical physicist in the house?
    
    Samurai

    
    Lenny,
    
    You may be interested in reading "Mister God, This Is Anna", by
    Fynn.  It's just a little paperback at $2.98 (US).  It was the key
    that brought science and religion together.  One of the more notable
    lines was that 'After Mr.God got through with creation, he stuffed
    the knowledge into our brainboxes."  
    
    Cindy

    Thanx Cindy! You know like minds do gravitate toward like minds.
    Unfortunately (in some ways) this lioke mind is flying to Sacramento
    California on October 6'th. Actually I'm driving out ... 2 week
    road trip ..... and staying there forever. 
    
    DEJAVU has been a real experience for me....there are some people
    I wish I had met ... like you, Steve Kallis, HEY MR. JOLLIMORE,
    but i won't now unless we see each other in the ether or the west
    coast .... I will be joining the Rosicrucians to learn all they
    are willing to teach me. So if any of you people should happen out
    to the west coast, and you so choose, please look for me in San
    Jose where the Rosicrucian headquarter temple is located. I will
    be living in Sacramento CA, my address and phone will be pubicly
    available in the Scaramento phone register. 
    
    Should any of you come out there ... please look me up!
    
    I am going to miss the camaraderie and familial feeling thqt has
    been extended to one ... sometimes ... very alone Greek boy!
    
    Until We Meet Again (and we will)
    
    SAMURAI_WRITER aka lenny bucuvalas

Lenny,
>                      -< White Bird ... He Must Fly..... >-

It's a beautiful day, right?

Enjoy it, wherever you go!

Arie

    
    
    Hmmm....I'm having a feeling of dejavu.....I would swear that
    I said farewell to you at some point!  Happy journeying!
    
    Carole

.31

Bye Len, good luck!

Jay

.33 Carole

Before Len was an employee he was one of those contract types who come
and go (and come and go ...) He's always been 'gone' in my mind nyuck.

    re: Lenny
    
         Being in Santa Clara puts me just a couple of miles
    from the Rosecrucians.  My name is in a phone book or two,
    also (Los Gatos.)
    
    Frederick
    (who-hopes-you-put-the-sword-down-for-a-while-and-rests!;-) )
    

    re: .31, Lenny,
    
    Welcome to California.  We're not such bad sorts after all--regardless
    of the rumors you may have heard ;-)
    
    The Santa Clara office (where Frederick and I are) is close to the
    Rosicrucian center (within 10-15 minutes), too, so you will never
    be far from DEJAVUers.
    
    May you have a good, safe, and enjoyable trip.  I look forward
    to hearing from you when you arrive.
    
    Jill

    WOW! With all this spiritual support how can I do anything BUT have
    a great trip!
    
    I'm going to miss you all ... at this very moment in time I feel
    a link that is sending ripples of chills up through all chakras!
    
    Frederick! Mayhaps we have been friends before? I WILL look you
    up when I settle in Sacramento! I should be there somewhere around
    the 18'th of October......see you soemwhere between then and November
    5'th....I'll call you first...............
    
    Lenny B. AKA SAMURAI_WRITER