Conference hydra::dejavu

    
    
    I have read numerous books by Ruth Montgomery (and I'm having a
    memory lapse myself as which ones they were)  She's been "author_ing"
    for many years and since I began reading topics relative to the
    "esoteric", say 15-20 years.....I "feel" while I'm reading, and
    if what I feel "feels" comfortable and easily digesting, let alone
    possible, probable and the like, then I go for it.  
    
    She has mentioned her automatic writing _powers_, something I'd
    like to try, but would be afraid of what I would channel (if I wasn't
    *protected* accurately), as well as other _powers_ available to
    us all.  I can't remember if she uses any other documentation other
    than her own experiences, however, I still find her interesting.
    
    Cheryl

I read _The World Before_.  It was pretty good; the info seemed to fit
into by belief system, but I got bored with all her talk about the
previous lives of celebrities...

Terry

  I have read the Ruth Montgomery book called "Strangers Among Us".
 (notice the slight variation from two of the book titles listed in .0)
 This book introduced me to the concept of "walk-ins", and I have been
 fascinated and somewhat enchanted with this possibility since I read
 the book several years ago.  Just to give everyone some idea of what Ruth
 Montgomery is referring to by the term "walk-ins" I will give the following
 scanty overview from memory.  Someone please correct me if I misrepresent
 anything.

  A basic premise behind "walk-ins" is that there is a highly evolved
 'sister/brotherhood' ('personhood'? {my word}) of discarnate entities which is
 organized in a sort of hierarchy.  The hierarchy is not a structure for
 wielding power, but rather more like a school for teachers with different
 class levels. (Notice the similarity to the recent discussions of the enigmatic
 "Brotherhood of Light" described by Alice Bailey, Mdme. Blavatsky, et. al.).
 Each of the discarnate entities is devoted to the betterment of mankind, and
 is working towards this goal through the training of other discarnate entities
 (who are not necessarily members of the 'personhood') to reinhabit physical
 bodies  *** with the purposes/goals of their incarnation remaining intact ***.

  The methods will supposedly not work properly unless the goals are highly
 idealistic and pure.  There is no specific reason given for why it would not
 work for evil purposes other than that the procedures have required extreme
 training and practice for the adepts of 'light' to perfect.  Actually, I recall
 that upon reading the book I *implied* that Ruth was saying that, contrary to
 some popular beliefs, there was no corresponding 'personhood of darkness'
 evolved nearly enough to take on such a task (she may not have stated this
 directly).

  In any case, if a discarnate entity desires to return to physical form
 in order to complete some specific goal/purpose then they can 'apply' for
 permission to undergo appropriate training and recieve appropriate assistance
 from the 'personhood'.  If the goals are deemed to be worthy, and not personal
 but rather more global in extent, then the person is accepted and 'enrolled'
 into an extensive training program.

  On the flip side of the metaphysical coin are those prospective 'bodies'
 which may be appropriate for a "walk-in" to inhabit.  Ruth is careful to
 emphasize that a person is *never* forcibly removed from their body (and that
 the process would not work properly if this was the case), but rather that
 the prime candidates for "walk-in" bodies are of two major classes.  The first
 category includes people who have essentially "given up on life" for any one
 of many reasons (injury, disease, sorrow, etc.).  This would include those
 seriously intending suicide, etc.  The second category includes those who may
 have already achieved the primary goals of their current incarnation, and are
 thus likely to simply coast for the rest of their current life.  Supposedly
 these people are 'contacted' (presumably in an astral sense) by members of the
 'personhood', and the choice is clearly presented to them.  If they refuse,
 then nothing is forced upon them.  If they agree to let their body serve as
 the vehicle for a "walk-in" then they are given assurances that any lingering
 loose ends in their life (from a karmic standpoint) will be fulfilled 'for
 them' by the "walk-in" (the walk-ins are trained for this), and they are given
 special assistance in determining the key goals of their own next incarnation.

  The 'veil between worlds' is more transparent for "walk-ins" than for people
 who enter their incarnation from the womb ("womb-ins"?).  This is due less to
 a restricted 'permeability' of the veil at birth than to the severely limited
 capacities for understanding and expression during the early childhood years,
 and to the potentially adverse role of familial and societal conditioning.
 However, stangely enough, there is a sort of temporary opacity to the veil
 since typically a new "walk-in" does not even realize that they are a "walk-in"
 for a duration of from several months to a year.  At this later time, the
 veil is gradually lifted and they can then realize the nature of their goals
 and can effectively and unswayingly pursue their purposes.  Since "walk-ins"
 have much less attachment to all things physical and temporal than the
 "womb-ins", they can endure much more pain, public criticism, etc. in pursuit
 of their goals.

  For a number of reasons the rate of "walk-ins" has been accelerating rapidly
 during the recent decades (some allusions to the 'Age of Aquarius', etc.)
 where the current number is easily in the thousands by now.  Ruth identifies
 several people (a few by name) who realize and admit that they are "walk-ins",
 and it is interesting that they are pursuing widely varying 'purposes' (eg.
 doctors searching for cures, physicists searching for unifying theories,
 musicians, etc.).

  So .. do we have any self-avowed "walk-ins" among us here in Dejavu??

  Don't answer too fast, because maybe you are one but don't know it yet!! ;-}

  So .. does anyone think that they *could be* a "walk-in"??

  If you do, then next time you see one of those signs on a beauty salon which
 says "Walk-ins Welcome", it could be just the encounter group you have been
 looking for!  ;-b

							Todd

    After reading these notes on Ruth, thought I'd put my two cents
    in.  
    
    I do not believe I am a walk-in; however, one psychic I met did
    believe that I am.  BUT....I am more convinced than ever, after
    reading Ms. Montgomery's books, that my mother is a very typical
    case.
    
    She suffered a severe heart attack (ventricular fibrilation) and
    her heart stopped for more than ten minutes.  She was clinically dead
    in the emergency room, where the doctors "brought her back to life".
    The occurred 11 years ago, September 30th.
    
    The woman that emerged, physically speaking, had brain damage,
    irreversible, the doctors said.  She knew no one around her, but knew 
    names, places, how to read and write, but did not know how she knew 
    these things.
    
    The mother that I knew was shy, gentle, kind, loving, a perfect
    lady, always took pride in her appearance, hated animals
    (unfortunately), and was loved by everyone who knew her.
    
    However, the woman that emerged was abrasive, swore like a truck
    driver, never cared about her appearance, was rude on occasion,
    not concerned with anyone else's feelings but her own, LOVED our
    dog (my mother couldn't stand him - wouldn't even tough him) 
    and generally alienated most of those around her.  She also has come 
    to dislike me intensely...and I'm a pretty nice person.  There are
    many complicated reasons for that, which I will not go into here.
    She also had no recollection of giving birth to her two children...
    couldn't understand how a small baby could come from a woman's body.
    
    Until I read about walk-ins a while ago, I thought all this change
    was part of the brain damage that she suffered.  The personality
    change was so incredible, that I no longer viewed her as my mother,
    just someone else living in my mother's body.  The woman I knew
    and loved "died" in the emergency room.
    
    Now that I'm a little more informed about "walk-ins", I guess I
    was aware of something that I didn't know I was aware of (?)
    
    This is purely speculation, but from where I sit, the evidence is
    pretty strong......
    
    Deb
    
    

    RE .3
    
     Todd,
    
      Could you give me a pointer to the discussion on the "brotherhood
    of light" ?  I am working on a pet theory about the new age and
    how things like walk-ins and the different new age events (harmonic
    convergence etc..) and theosophy all fit together. I'll post my
    ideas if they do indeed pan out.
    
     Thanks,
    Gil

RE: .4 (Deb)
    
    Deb,
    
    You are right, from your viewpoint, looking at that single case
    it is good evidence for a walk-in personality.  Looked at more
    broadly, however, it isn't.
    
    What you describe is fairly typical of a certain kind of brain
    damage.  It sounds like a number of relatively small areas of
    her brain were damaged, producing a number of odd "point" symptoms
    (her inability, for example to understand the facts of human
    childbirth).
    
    In cases with similar symptoms where the damage is reversable, for
    example, when there is one or more operable brain tumors, repair
    of the damage partially or wholly restores the personality (depending
    on whether the repair is partial or complete).  Moreover the
    specific personality changes are well correlated with where the
    damage occurs.
    
    All this can be explained by the theory of walk-ins, but only by
    making that elegant theory complex, baroque and ugly.  Whether or
    not there are indeed walk-in personalities, that woman is almost
    certainly your mother -- however distorted by her disease.  Its
    like she is always on powerful drugs, which put parts of her mind
    to sleep, allowing an unbalanced mind to try to cope on its own.
    As rough and unpleasent as she is, that she functions at all is
    probably due to an heroic effort invisible to you and probably
    to her (at least consciously).
    
    Let me strongly recommend a book which was recently a best-seller
    (something I will rarely do): The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a
    Hat.  This book is very simply a book about what it means to be
    human -- specifically about how people with various types of
    brain damage maintain their humanity.  I'm recommending this
    book specifically to Deb -- to help her gain perspective -- but
    to everyone else as well: it is a deeply thought-provoking and
    inspiring book.
    
    					Topher

    re: .6 (Topher)
    
        Though I find what you say makes *perfect* sense, I tend
    to disagree, to some extent at least, with it.  Why?  Because
    you have a strong tendency to follow logic patterns.
      
    ...oh, I'm supposed to make my case...
    
        Okay, I don't believe that the "universe" is logical.  I believe
    that humans believe in logic, but not the universe.  There are
    alternative realities available wherein logic can be seen only as
    a convenience, not necessarily the greatest truth.  What this leads
    me to is a statement I have made in the past in regards to causality.
    You are talking cause and effect and I am talking effect THEN cause.
    Clearly, from cause and effect viewpoints what you have stated is
    most probable.  However, since I believe that thought precedes cause,
    then what you say is no longer so probable.  If, in this case, the
    entity known as Debbie's mother "decided" to change places with
    another entity, then the "walk-in" scenario is valid as perceived.
    In the case that you mentioned, wherein someone "reverted" to a
    former self, then the "walk-in" situation could still be seen as
    being valid.  How, he says?...well, because on some other level
    there may have been agreement to switch back. Again, decisions
    occur before the reality manifests...thoughts precede experience.
    So, in this case, the situations are developed that appear as "cause".
    In other words, the tumor is then found, the surgical corrections
    made, etc.  This is only the manifestation of the agreements that
    were previously determined.  
    
         I do not wish to ramble on and on in more support, but hopefully
    the train of thought shows through here.  In Deb's case, I do not
    know what the answer might be...there are other probabilities as
    well.  One is that another aspect of her own self switched in time
    (but not space) and that Deb's new mother is a different incarnation
    of her old mother.  Remember, in a universe where everything is
    possible, so is this.  So, is it another entity or the same entity?
    I don't believe we are easily able to determine this.  Assuming
    that Deb loved the *original* entity known as her mother, she can
    continue to love that energy, whether it is in this body and this
    form or not.  She does not have to love aspects of any entity, however,
    no more than we "love" aspects of our own (past life) selves.  Whether
    she continues to love the present entity, even with the understanding
    that it could be a walk-in and therefore on some level made an
    agreement with the *original* entity, is a difficult decision to
    make.  Nothing in *my* book says she is required to love this new
    energy.  Again, it comes down to choices and decisions.  All of
    us face many, many throughout our lifetime(s) and eventually work
    our way through them.  This is an unusual choice, but choice is
    available.
    
    Frederick
    

  re .4,
    
    While your case certainly *appears* to be a 'possession' of some kind,
    I tend to agree with Topher's brain dysfunction explanation.  Possibly
    it could be viewed as a 'death' of certain parts of her former self and
    a 'possesion' of her body by other previously hidden parts of her self.
    However you view it, it clearly indicates the loss of someone who was
    dear to you, and you have my sincere condolences.
    
    She does not strictly match the picture of "walk-ins" described by Ruth
    Montgomery, since her life 'goals' certainly do not seem very spiritually
    lofty, and her self-awareness of being a "walk-in" has apparently not
    surfaced after some time.

    It has not been brought up, but it seems to me that there could
    an alternate form of bodily takeover called "possession" which may
    be distinguishable from "walk-ins".  All that I recall Ruth saying
    is that there is not an organized 'Dark' group which is training
    and installing "possessions", yet possibly it can happen 'accidentally'
    or through the extreme willfulness of individual entities.
    "Walk-ins" as described by Ruth Montgomery appear to have a distinctly
    different character than the classical description of "possesions".
                
  re .5,

    The Brotherhood of Light was brought up in a quotation from the
    writings of Alice Bailey as reply .31 under topic 755: "evil spirits".
    Replies from .40 through .46 continue the discussion.

    BTW, in rereading 755.31 there are many references to a "Dark Brotherhood".
    At first this seemed to conflict with what Ruth Montgomery had indicated
    about there not being a commensurate influx of 'dark' "walk-ins".
    However, Alice Bailey then goes on to say that the Dark Brotherhood has
    power in the physical and emotional realms, but not the mental/spiritual.
    Maybe this is the key distinction.
    							Todd

    I agree with Topher regarding Deb's mother's brain
    dysfunction.  From what I understand about walk-ins
    there is a lengthy trial period in which the walk-in
    "shares" the body with the original occupant.  This
    is the way in which the life memories are communicated.
    The trial period generally begins in sleep or coma and
    then progresses to wakeful periods which gradually
    lengthen.  Eventually the original occupant departs
    the body completely and the walk-in takes up permenant
    residence.  Since the purpose behind the walk-in being
    allowed to do this is for spiritual enlightenment (ours)
    I don't think it's likely that Deb's mother is a walk-in.
    I think (in general) there are no immediately percievable
    changes in the walk-in's personality except that they
    might seem to be handling adversity more easily or be
    experiencing more joy in life.  In many cases it seems 
    that the person suddenly becomes stronger, more able
    to cope, more self-confident.  
    
    Nanci

Another to agree with Topher.  Although I don't throw out the possiblity
of a 'walk-in', I think it's a result of affect on the brain.  The
personality you described reminds me of C. G. Jung's description of the
"Shadow".  We all have one, he says.  It is the 'not I' - everything
that our ego isn't.  Maybe somehow through the ordeal, this part of her
deep subconscious self has become conscious.  

Terry

        First, I'd like to thank you all for your comments.  It has
    given me a bit to ponder through-out my daily routine.  Anymore
    will be equally welcome.
    
        I feel the same as .1 (Cheryl..?..there goes my memory again)
    as far as trying the guided writing talent.  Even though I am compelled
    to try it I have been fighting this fear of what I may come in contact
    with.  As a matter of fact, my heart rate is increasing as I type!
    I think it may have something to do with some experiments with
    self-hynosis as a completely un-educated 17 year old.  Nothing I
    can really put my finger on, just a feeling. 
    
        I also agree with .2 (Terry) about getting bored with all the
    talk of celebrities.  Of the books I've read by Ruth Montgomery
    (RM), That was really the only one that left me with a
    kind-a-"commercial" feeling.  
    
        .4 (Deb), I can relate to your experience with your mother in
    a sense.  My grandmother, who practically raised me, had a series
    of strokes that eventually left her in a hospital bed almost completely
    unable to speak.  I remember a lot of long nights where she would
    wake up and start talking to relatives that had been dead for years.
    After she had the last stroke before she past-on, she spoke to me
    as if I were her son (my uncle) that killed himself when I was a
    child.  (why am i rambling on like this??)  I, too, agree with Topher.
    
        As for other books by RM, I loved them.  I think Aliens Among
    Us & Strangers.... were "my favorite".
    
                                                     Scott

    
    A few months ago, I heard a little blurp about Ruth Montgomery on
    the radio news.  I didn't catch all of it and they never rebroad-
    casted it again.  I checked the newspapers and didn't find any-
    thing about her in them.  Does any Ruth Montgomery fan know about
    this or know about her present condition (hopefully, she's okay).
    I got the impression from what I heard that something had happened
    to her.  Would appreciate any information you might have.
    
    Thanks,
    Joanne
    

         I haven't heard anything about her in the media, but, I do
    know that she stated in at least one of her books that her guides
    have told her that she will not be in the physical plane when the
    "shift" occurs.  I hope she's O.K. too! 
    
                                                         scott