| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
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| 715.1 | Another Perspective | BORIKN::ESPOSITO | | Tue Apr 26 1988 23:50 | 12 |
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| 715.2 | J.M. = Provocation, Narrow-Mindedness | WRO8A::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Wed Apr 27 1988 00:58 | 18 |
| Re: .0
Aren't you ever going to become an adult, John? Or did you
you get scared and decide to revert to childhood?
Symposiums such as you discussed *HAVE* been held. There was
at least one held in 1987. There were many channeled entities there
(Ramtha and Lazaris were, to my knowledge, not present.)
The sad part of this is that what the child in you, or your
negative ego, is looking for is dissention, not harmony, not
cooperation, not peace. Once again you are riding your broom in
search of "witches"...without your mirror.
Next train to the John Mitchell Cult leaves at midnight.
Frederick
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| 715.3 | | SSDEVO::ACKLEY | Aslan | Wed Apr 27 1988 03:27 | 42 |
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I too would enjoy attending such a symposium, but I think there
would be more agreements there than disagreements. The better
psychics all seem to be spreading the same (or at least close to
the same) message.
Perhaps the sources of such messages all come from the same
world of spirit? Or, on the cynical side, perhaps they've all
read Edgar Cayce and Nostrodomus, and stay near the 'party platform'
out of habit, or out of the fear of being caught in contradicting
the known 'greats' of the profession.
After years of observing such things, I have concluded there
are a lot of fakes out there, as well as many fine and good channels
tapping into something *real*. The Collective Unconscious? The
Spirit world? I haven't completely decided yet, but I know it's
*real*, whatever it is. There is a lot of coherent consistency
in the volumes of channeled material, so much so that it's almost
boring sometimes. I think we are watching the birth of a new
religion, and I am fascinated by the developing mythos. I just
finished reading "The Fellowship" by Brad Steiger, and at the end
of the book he quotes from many different channelers. It is a very
interesting summary of the "New Age" mythology, which demonstrates
the coherency of the movement.
Rather than trying to trap channelers into contradicting each
other, I would rather see an exploration of the similarities.
Whose purposes are being served by this growing movement? Is
the coherency unconscious? Or is it deliberate? Jacques Vallee's
"Messengers Of Deception" raises the questions; Is anyone manipulating
the contactee movements? Are UFOs a technology deliberately being
used to systematically reprogram people? When government agents
infiltrate contactee groups, are they just keeping tabs on the cults,
or do they have other motives?
Really, John, it sounds to me like you expect to find all psychics
are driven by ego and/or money. Many of them are, but a lot more
than that is going on. There are deeper questions to be answered
here. A panel of psychics could be made to look like fools, but
then so could a panel of scientists or economists.
Alan.
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| 715.4 | why the hub-bub bub? | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Wed Apr 27 1988 09:58 | 13 |
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re: .0
"dead heads" theres a joke in there somewhere.....i think it
may be on line 19?
re: .2 Children are not dangerous. children who think they are
adults... this is dangerous.
John, eveyone isn't out to get you... just me... and 69.23% of
the worlds population is under my control. so take it easy!
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| 715.5 | I'd go too. | SCOPE::PAINTER | | Wed Apr 27 1988 16:20 | 5 |
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Actually, I rather liked the idea John posed in .0 and didn't know
until Frederick mentioned it that one had already taken place.
Cindy
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| 715.6 | $0.02 | SWSNOD::DALY | Serendipity 'R' us | Wed Apr 27 1988 16:52 | 35 |
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re: .4 OPERATOR_CB
>John, everyone isn't out to get you ....... so take it easy!<
I question whether you and Frederick read John's note in the
spirit in which it was intended. The way I read .0 I hear
slight sarcasm, light cynicism, a bit of humor, AND an
interesting idea.
re: .2 Frederick
Nobody likes it when someone "pokes fun" at our ideas and ideals,
no matter how light hearted or benign the intent. This is especially
true when the "poker" and the "pokee" have crossed swords before.
Nearly every time you two get going at each other, I am tempted to
enter a reply that goes something like this - - -
Dear John and Frederick,
I have read your many entries in this conference. I have enjoyed
them all. Though you two are light years apart in your beliefs,
you both have caused me to look within myself as well as outside
of myself to discover many things of value. I feel I know you
both as friends. That is why it saddens me when you argue rather
than discuss. I feel that in arguing, you (and we all) miss a
good opportunity to learn from your wide spread views. Not only
that, but it is always uncomfortable when two of my friends are
royally pixxed at each other. Please, guys - play nice.
There! I said it! Carry on!
Marion
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| 715.7 | Ya Gotta Have Some Humor... | EXIT26::SAARINEN | | Wed Apr 27 1988 19:34 | 33 |
| John,
I like this idea, even though I am in Channelers Camp so to speak,
nothing is really that scared that something can't have some
humor involved with it. Here's my attempts...
Titles for the Show:
As the AfterWorld Turns
All My Channeled Entities
The Channelizer
Channeling Pains
Lazarius's Way
;-) No Ramtha's Way
Head of the Seance
What's In Time
Lazarius Knows Best
Channelers Are Talking
I could go on....and on....and on. :-)
-Arthur
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| 715.8 | Chill out, Fred | DECWET::MITCHELL | Art imitates life imitates TV | Wed Apr 27 1988 19:49 | 10 |
| RE: .6
I was going to answer Frederick in my own sweet way, but I have been
defused.
RE: .7
Hahahahahaha!
John M.
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| 715.9 | Outcome?? | GENRAL::DANIEL | If it's sloppy, eat over the sink. | Wed Apr 27 1988 20:18 | 10 |
| re; < Note 715.2 by WRO8A::GUEST_TMP "HOME, in spite of my ego!" >
> Symposiums such as you discussed *HAVE* been held. There was
> at least one held in 1987. There were many channeled entities there
> (Ramtha and Lazaris were, to my knowledge, not present.)
Frederick - What was the outcome? I'm extremely curious to know.
Thanks,
Meredith
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| 715.10 | $0.00 | USACSB::CBROWN | | Thu Apr 28 1988 05:06 | 20 |
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re: .6
> I question whether you and Frederick read John's note in the
> spirit in which it was intended. The way I read .0 I hear
> slight sarcasm, light cynicism, a bit of humor, AND an
> interesting idea.
you flatter me.
i am not accustomed to being taken seriously.
in closing...
i question whether you read my note in the spirit in which it
was intended. The way i read .4 i hear slight sarcasm, light
cynicism, a bit of humor, AND some interesting ideas.
fey mouse
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| 715.11 | "I see", said the blind man. | SWSNOD::DALY | Serendipity 'R' us | Thu Apr 28 1988 12:30 | 1 |
| OK, fey, I gotcha.
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| 715.12 | What was the outcome? | COOKIE::DANIEL | If it's sloppy, eat over the sink. | Thu Apr 28 1988 23:00 | 3 |
| Frederick - What was the outcome, what was the outcome, what was the outcome,
she asked, impatiently...would love to hear about that unconventional
convention.
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| 715.13 | ...a small reply | WRO8A::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Thu Apr 28 1988 23:27 | 56 |
| RE: -.1 (Meredith)
I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I'd tell you if I
did. I'd tell you if I did. I'd tell you if I did.
I have a little bit of it on (video) tape. I forgot to look
it up while I was home, but it was from some national show wherein
they were discussing channeling. It was quite clear from the show
that it was a forum or convention for channelers. I recognized
Tora (I know the woman who channels Tora...she lives in L.A.) and
one or two others. I do not remember if Kevin Ryerson was in that
group, but there was also a guy with a goatee who channels somebody.
Anyway, I have no further real information on it. All I know is
this is an event that has happened at least once.
I also doubt the sincerity that people has expressed in going
to one of these forums. A few months ago I reported a conference
occuring at Sun Valley, Idaho...this was a quite logical place for
such a situation to occur. I did not detect much interest in the
DEJAVU community for that; at least not to the extent that someone
would fly out to Idaho for it.
These things have occured and can occur again. For anyone
interested, why don't you write to people and see if you can get
more info. The New Age Catalog people may be a help. Or, you can
write to the various channeling organizations. I do not have enough
interest in this myself to pursue it. I am satisfied with the answers,
in this regard, that I am aware of.
As for those who want peace, I'm all for it. What I am not for
is for someone to bully his/her way over me. We have for almost
a year discussed channeling, specifically Lazaris, and given reasons,
counterreasons, examples, situations, etc. all to justify or show
the legitimacy of that phenomenon. My reaction to John was strictly
to underscore my belief that his mind is horribly close-minded to
this particular situation. He continues to hold views which have
consistently been refuted. It is his right to do so. I will repeat
this, it is his right to do so. It is his right to do so. But
in the guidelines to this conference is an implicit understanding
to not railroad others or coerce them with those views. If you
reread John's original message I believe you will notice a clear
intent. For him to label all channelings a cult is erroneous by
most of the consensus definitions we have used in this conference
before (especially in note 288.) I *can* coexist with John as long
as he unjudgementally allows me my existence. To the extent he
will not allow that, then we will have conflict instead of an
encounter (a preferred situation.) As I have pointed out before,
as long as he is willing to say, "My opinion is..." then I have
no problem. As long as he continues to imply consensus agreement
to supposed "facts" then I *do* have a problem. I do not wish
to establish a beach-head here. I do not wish to disrupt the
usual peacefulness of this community. But I will take full
responsibility for informing others that they intruding on that
territory when they brandish their weapons over those who carry
flowers.
Frederick
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| 715.14 | | DECWET::MITCHELL | Art imitates life imitates TV | Fri Apr 29 1988 00:43 | 67 |
| RE: .13 (Frederick)
> My reaction to John was strictly to underscore my belief that his
mind is horribly close-minded to this particular situation. <
"Horribly?"
> He continues to hold views which have consistently been refuted. <
That does not mean that the refutations have any validity. I have yet to
see any data compelling enough for me to change my stance.
> For him to label all channelings a cult is erroneous by most of the
consensus definitions we have used in this conference before
(especially in note 288.) <
In regard to Lazaris, Ramtha, and the like, I use the term correctly. I refer
you to the "consensus definition" of Webster's dictionary: "Great devotion
to a person, idea or thing, especially such devotion regarded as a literary
or intellectual fad." A usually small circle of persons united by devotion
or allegiance to an artistic or intellectual movement or figure." I could
prove my point using some of your replies as examples, but that would be
cruel. I am simply calling a spade a spade. You may interpret the word
"cult" in either a positive or negative light. That is up to you.
> I *can* coexist with John as long as he unjudgementally allows me my
existence. <
It is not your existence I take issue with but some (*some*, mind you) of
your ideas. (And I am far more interested in YOUR ideas than you-know-who's.)
Believe it or not, Frederick, it is possible to judge your ideas without
judging YOU.
> To the extent he will not allow that, then we will have conflict
instead of an encounter (a preferred situation.) <
Life is sometimes encounter and sometimes conflict.
> As I have pointed out before, as long as he is willing to say, "My
opinion is..." then I have no problem. <
You will rarely hear me say that; it would be too boring. Simply interpret
everything I say as opinion unless I specify otherwise.
> As long as he continues to imply consensus agreement to supposed
"facts" then I *do* have a problem. <
I do not know what you mean.
Really, Frederick, you should be thanking me for helping you to work through
your karma. You chose this reality, remember? Just remember that I, like
you, am here to learn. Sometimes I learn quietly, and sometimes I make
a lot of noise. I am the anchovy on the DEJAVU pizza. Either you like
it, tolerate it, or pick it off.
John M.
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| 715.15 | | SNOC01::MYNOTT | | Fri Apr 29 1988 01:28 | 12 |
| re: 14
"Pick it off"....
John, reminds me of a dinner I had with a visiting dejavuer last
week... Pizza, but one guest was allergic to prawns, and yup, she
picked them off. Great dinner....is there any significance do you
think?
...dale
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| 715.16 | The eternal battle... | CSC32::KACHELMYER | Dave Kachelmyer, CSC/CS VMS-SPACE | Fri Apr 29 1988 04:12 | 57 |
| RE: .13
*> My reaction to John was strictly to underscore my belief that his
*> mind is horribly close-minded to this particular situation. He
*> continues to hold views which have consistently been refuted. It is
*> his right to do so.
*> I *can* coexist with John as long as he unjudgementally allows me my
*> existence.
*> As I have pointed out before, as long as he is willing to say, "My
*> opinion is..." then I have no problem. As long as he continues to
*> imply consensus agreement to supposed "facts" then I *do* have a
*> problem.
*> I do not wish to establish a beach-head here. I do not wish to disrupt
*> the usual peacefulness of this community. But I will take full
*> responsibility for informing others that they intruding on that
*> territory when they brandish their weapons over those who carry
*> flowers.
Frederick, it seems to me that you may be unwilling to grant John that
which you are asking of him; the unjudgemental acceptance of his
existance. You have said that he has a right to the views that he
holds, but your reaction could be understood to say that he does not
have the right or privilege to express them, unless that expression
conforms to the wording patterns that your ego is comfortable with.
Your statement is that you don't want to establish a beach-head nor
upset the peacefulness of the DEJAVU community. However you could
later be taken to say that the responsibility that you have taken on of
protecting others from John and his kind makes that consideration
secondary.
You mention that you will continue to have a problem, as long as
he communicates in the style he currently chooses to. Do the roots
of this problem lie solely within John, or do they more truely lie
somewhere else?
You've mentioned a lot about Lazarus in various topics and replies. If
you were to ask him about your reactions to John, what to you feel he
would have to share with you? I feel that in 'The Sacred Journey' that
Lazarus's messages appear to have Love, acceptance, and understanding
as a common thread throughout them. I also feel that much of what he
might say to me would be based on these.
I come across many notes that I disagree with for one reason or
another. Some of these notes are from you or John. However, I have
found that one (or more) of {acceptance, love, understanding}, combined
with the omniponent Next Unseen key have borne me through them all. :-)
From re-reading this entry from different viewpoints along the circle
of perception, I see that this reply can be received in a variety of
different ways. How I wrote it is my gift. How it is percieved is
the reader's gift to him or herself.
Kak
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| 715.17 | | WILLEE::FRETTS | doing my Gemini north node... | Fri Apr 29 1988 13:10 | 13 |
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RE .14 John
>...I am the anchovy on the DEJAVU pizza.
Hey, I thought I told them to hold the anchovies!!!!!!!!!
Carole (who really happens to love anchovies on pizza :-))
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