Conference hydra::dejavu

    ABsolutely!
      
       One of the most important things we need to consider in our
    lives is our impact on others.  While it is ultimately mandatory
    that we be honest, this means, in my opinion, COMPLETE, TOTAL,
    BRUTAL HONESTY...with YOURSELF.  If total honesty has a negative
    impact on others, then some alternative may be more appropriate.
    This from Lazaris: "Be brutally honest with yourself; be tactfully
    truthful with others."
      
    Frederick
    

    Be rigidly honest to yourself about yourself.
    
    Be honest to others; if total honesty hurts, and "modified honesty"
    (e.g., a little white lie) brings comfort, be kind. 
    
    If you would help a seeker find his or her way, do so through total
    honesty.  Anything else is a barrier to truth.
    
    Honesty includes the ability to say, "I don't know." 
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    Honesty must be tempered with tact and sensitivity. 
    
    You don't always want to tell your SO precisely what you think 
    of their new clothes, or their latest attempt at gourmet cooking.
    
    You don't always want to tell your boss what you think of 
    his/her latest idea.
    
    You may honestly think that the clothes would look better on a baboon,
    and the meal should be fed to the cats, and your boss's latest project
    will make money for IBM - but use some discretion when you tell
    them these thoughts.
    
    Often people use "telling the truth" as an excuse to get back at
    or hurt the other person by tearing them down. That's not honesty
    in my book.
    
    -bs

    
    	Honesty can stop at someone's right to privacy, that is, every
    little detail of one's life need not be exposed to another in the 
    effort to be "totally" honest.
    	Detailing every little thing can lead to an unproductive
    confrontation that wastes energy and can thwart something that
    otherwise in all actuality may be just fine.
    	I can easily think of an example in the contex of a relationship.
    You might not want to reveal "all" the details of your past
    relationships to your current "SO". Why should you have to? For
    the sake of being "totally" honest? I dont think so...
    
    	Joe Jas 

 Honesty is very important, imagine the world without it.Like knowledge
it can be used for good or bad.Being honest is similar to any other action
we take, it will have negative as well as positive effects.The best we can
do is to try to act for positive results and hope we have perceived the
situation clearly enough so that the negative results will be minimal.


                   George D.

    
    I find it difficult to think of honesty as brutal, any more than
    any means that we use to describe our current reality is in and
    of itself brutal. Being truthful/honest with ourselves, acknowledging
    the good and the not-so-good, is the way we can define where we
    are, and using the information is how we get to the next stage in
    our development. Thus, to be honest to ourselves is to be ultimately
    kind and loving, providing us the means to growth and fulfillment.
                                  
    Truthfulness should never be used as a weapon, as a means to divide
    and separate us. But the truth, told in love and with the desire
    to support someone else in his or her growth, is never inappropriate.
    
    Gloria
    

	The level of honesty which we portray and give to another person 
	is relative to the depth which we trust that person.

	There are many ways to be dishonest.  Outright lying, omission of 
    	facts, outwardly accepting a belief you don't really accept but 
    	don't want to argue, doing what you don't want to do, manipulating 
    	data to suit your own purpose, pretending to like opera because 
    	your friend won two tickets and absolutely loves it, etc. etc.

	There is also a difference between being "brutally" honest with 
    	yourself and your life's surroundings *to* yourself, being honest 
    	about yourself to another person, and being "brutally" honest with 
    	another person about *him/her* and his/her life's surroundings.  

	I won't be "brutally" honest with someone if I know it will hurt 
    	them.  I don't subscribe to the statement "I'm only telling you 
    	this for your own good."  (Frederick, I'm going sound like you for 
    	a moment.)  I watched a Lazaris tape this weekend and liked what 
    	he said about love and honesty should not evoke guilt, pain, or a 
    	self-ego satisfaction.  When being honest with another person I 
    	have to first consider *why* I am telling him/her this and what 
    	affect it may have.  Will it hurt him/her?  Is it something they 
    	can discover on their own?

	A couple days ago I told a friend something about myself that upset 
	him.  I didn't need to tell him, but wanted to share this.  I was 
	being honest about myself, when to remain silent would have spared
	him confusion and (a little bit of) anger.  I made a mistake by not
	thinking it through, I'm still sorry for hurting him, but I did
	learn more about our relationship.

	Sometimes it takes a try or two before you "feel" the person out 
	and discover their honesty threshold (i.e., can she take it if I 
	tell her I hate her cat).  Tact and honesty play against each other 
	and *each* should be considered along with the subsequent possible 
    	consequences when telling a person something or when deciding
    	*not* to tell a person something (i.e., will he find out I was in 
    	the Bahamas when he really thought I was at DECworld).

	Finding out someone you trust has lied to you is shattering.  It 
    	is vital (at least to me) to be truly lovingly honest with people
	close to me, without causing hurt, anger, resentment, or tears.
    	Honesty is also saying "I'd rather not talk about it."

	Example of what I consider to be unimportant "dishonesty":  Some 
    	days I want to run up and down the halls laughing with joy at
    	being alive (I know, it's scary) and hug all my friends until I 
    	collapse from exhaustion.  I'm a private person.  If I'm asked 
    	"how are you," 99% of the time I'll say "fine" or "great."  Well, 
    	if I'm feeling as described above I'm obviously doing a bit better 
    	than that, but because I don't have the time to explain to them 
    	*why* I'm floating near the ceiling I'll give a quick, generic 
	answer.  In contrast, on my more mellow days I am, in effect, 
    	being dishonest by saying I'm fine when really I'm awful because 
    	my car broke down and I needed the money to pay off that secret 
    	trip to the Bahamas.  =;*)

	Being honest with yourself is *essential* to furthering growth in
	all aspects of your life.  You can tell yourself you look terrible, 
	you've got a cruddy personality, you treat people like dirtballs, 
	and what will happen?  For one thing, your self-image may be shot 
	and you may wallow in self-pity for a while, but eventually (and
	hopefully) you will start working to improve these things.

	Because you *can't* escape yourself.  You can't say "Why did you 
	tell me this??!!??" and then run away from yourself never speaking
	to yourself again.  You are the only one who has to deal with the 
	consequences (whatever they may be) of self-honesty, because it is 
	*your* reality that you create and it is *your* reality that you 
	must reconcile with and change if it doesn't suit you any longer.

    	My vote:  YES, you can be *too* honest with another person.
    		  *NO* you can never be too honest with yourself.
    
						Carla

    
    I had a conversation with a Dutch friend (who was living in the
    US for 3 years on a DEC transfer) on this very topic a few years
    ago.  He observed that Americans in particular will completely twist
    their observation around and say exactly the opposite of what they
    are thinking.  For example, he said that someone had approached
    a coworker of his that was about 4 months pregnant.  This person
    hadn't seen her in quite some time, took one look at her and said,
    "You are looking quite well, have you lost weight?  He had a hard 
    time dealing with that one since that is so totally wrong and he 
    came right out and said to me that it was considered 'dishonest' 
    in his Dutch social frame of reference. 
    
    I have another friend I grew up with who, if receiving a gift that 
    she doesn't really want, will go *way out of her way* to protest that 
    it is the most wonderful and thoughtful gift and that she was 
    overjoyed at receiving such a wonderful gift, and on and on.......then 
    turn to me, lower her voice to a whisper and say, "Do you think it 
    would be possible for me to take this back to the store and return 
    it without the sales receipt because it is not of really good quality 
    and I won't really use it anyway, but I don't want to hurt the feelings
    of the person who gave it to me.  This is by no means an isolated
    incident.
    
    She has finally decided that this isn't the way she would like to live
    from now on, because it really is dishonest, but it has been so 
    ingrained in her that this is the 'acceptable and social thing to do' 
    that she really doesn't know any other way (and from my observations,
    most of her family members act the same way).  I, on the other hand, 
    have no qualms whatsoever to tell someone that I'd rather exchange a
    gift for something else, especially when a large sum of money was
    spent.....but this sort of thing comes easy for me and therefore
    I'm not much help to her.
    
    Anybody have any good suggestions on how to help my friend modify her 
    behavior on her own and be more true to herself (and subsequently
    to others) in this regard?  I think that recognizing the problem is 
    the major first step, and she has taken that already, but she's not 
    quite sure how to go about changing a lifetime of acting a certain
    way and would really like some good suggestions (books, tapes,
    readings, etc.). 
                               
    Thanks all!
    
    Cindy
              

Thank you all for responding to my query.

Until recently I never really made, for myself, a distinction 
regarding honesty.

I probably fell in the category of brutally honest (thanks Carla) with 
myself and to others.  I have had two experiences, both of them in 
Notes, where I have written something then thinging I should delete 
the entry.  Yet in my heart I felt is was true.  In both cases I did 
not delete the notes.

This awareness has helped me out.

There is a principle I'd like to share that I am much more aware of
as I proceed daily.

It is true,
Is it necessary,
Is it kind.

If these questions, when asked about a communication to someone else 
come up yes, then I go with it.  If I get a no or maybe, my reaffirmed 
guidelines keep my mouth shut.

- Howard