Conference hydra::dejavu

    And in what ways could one pick a magical name? Do you have a favorite
    or especially effective technique for picking a magical name?

    Reply to .0,
    
    I'll offer, or attempt to offer, an answer to this question, which in
    fact, I'm presently contemplating. 
                                    
    Magical names seem useful and quite possibly important for magical work
    or relationships. Without getting into what magical work is it would
    seem to me that before performing such work one needs to be in an
    appropriate frame of mind. 
    
    An appropriate frame of mind could determine the outcome of the
    working. Ie., an inappropriate frame of mind could hamper the working.
    Psychologically, if one can separate oneself from the mundane energies
    of the day before doing such work an appropriate frame of mind could be
    achieved and be beneficial. 
                                                                         
    A magical name could be useful in this example as leverage into an
    appropriate state of mind.    
    
    If one were to chose their magical name carefully and use it properly
    a pshchological framework could be created that was supportive of
    physical action. Perhaps this comes under the heading of empowering or
    perhaps self-empowering. 
    

re: .1
>    And in what ways could one pick a magical name? 

Isn't the picking of a magical name often the object of the
"vision quest" puberty ritual (using fasting, exposure, or
drugs to enhance one's receptivity to the vision).  In this
case the name may be tied to some particular protective
spirit or totemic animal that is seen.

Also, the name might be given (either as part of such a
ritual or at the end of an apprenticeship) by one's
"sponsor" into adult society: the parent of the same sex,
or another relative, or a mentor with already recognized
magical prestige or expertise (e.g., a shaman).

Who knows what harm we may have suffered because we were
left to grow into adulthood with no magical name?  (But
then who knows what other injuries we may have sustained
because of our society's tendency to recognize puberty
as belatedly and as resentfully as it possibly can.)
						Pc.

	Magical names are not just to isolate the temple experience from
	the mundane, but also to emphasize that, with Initiation, you are
	born again.

	A magical name should be picked according to your own personal
	goals.  It could be in English, French, Latin, Hebrew... but
	it should feel "right" for you.  When you feel that you have
	"fulfilled" your name, it is time to pick a new one.

	Within the Golden Dawn, members picked a new name for every
	grade.  At one time Crowley chose Perdurabo "I shall endure"
	because he wished his message to survive.


						-- Mike

    Reply to .4; Woodward,
    
    Thanx for that. I've noticed that I have a secret name that I tell
    no one. That name seems to want to change at times, but I'm not
    through it yet.
    
    At the next FM I'll be initiated so I chose a name today. I confirmed
    that name numerologicly. It has the same value or is very close to the
    numerlogical value of my everday name. 
    
    Now would you tell anyone outside your close circle of friends what
    that name is?

    RE: .5 
    
>    Now would you tell anyone outside your close circle of friends what
>    that name is?

	Personally, I wouldn't.  Though there are no strict rules in
	the groups that I have been in contact with,  your name is
	supposed to be a "calling card" for your higher self... that
	"bornless" part of yourself.  If someone meant you harm, it
	could be used against you.

					-- Mike

    This is fascinating!  
    
    I have a name that I fastened on instinctively during an astrology/
    mythology class and thought it'd be to use it one day as a
    professional monicker.  Except that I have had an extreme reluctance
    to do so, without knowing why.  I've never told anyone this name, 
    not even my spouse.
    
    Numerologically, it happens that this name, when reduced, is the
    same as the number made from my full birthdate (one of the most 
    important, I understand, since it can't be changed).

    Marcia
    
    PS. I also got a grin out of reading that the new name meant that
        one was symbolically born again.  If that's so, then my feeling
        for the assumption of that name is happening true to my own
        cycle of personal rebirth--s-l-o-w-l-y.   :-)

    I was told once by one of my "teachers" that one might, on the course
    of one's journey on the path, learn the true name of higher beings
    in the positive heirarchy.  He said that he was told by his guide
    that the repeating of this name was a "mortal breaking of laws"...and
    when he asked what was meant by mortal, "it will cause the immediate
    death of anyone who does this".
    
    It would seem to follow that it would not be prudent or wise to
    repeat or make known your own true name, if this is what you mean
    by magical name.  .6's reasons for not doing this sound correct
    to me.
    
    Does anyone have a copy of the poem by Lewis Carroll about cats and
    their several names?  It might be interesting to add within a
    reply...put it in if you have a copy of it, it's a neat poem.
    
    DW

    Re .8:
    
    >Does anyone have a copy of the poem by Lewis Carroll about cats and
    >their several names?  It might be interesting to add within a
    >reply...put it in if you have a copy of it, it's a neat poem.
     
    It was by T. S. Eliot, and it _is_ a neat poem.
    
    The idea of one's "true name" is something that isn't limited to
    the magical.  A literary example: in _The Odyssey_, Odyessus tells
    Polyphemus, the cyclops, that he's named "Noman" [or "Nobody" or
    "Noone," depending upon translation] -- to fool the dimwitted cyclops
    so that when Odysseus blinds him, he cries out to his fellows that
    "Nobody" is bothering/hurting/attacking him; whereupon the others
    leave him rather than aiding him.  However, as Odysseus is pulling
    away from the island, he reveals his real identity to the blinded
    Polyphemus, which enables him to pray for the intercession of his
    father Poseidon, causing Odysseus to lose his men by shipwreck.
    The moral: if someone knows who you _really_ are, he or she has
    power over you.  [An anologous case can be found in the legends
    of Osiris and Isis, where Isis learns the True Name of Re, but people
    are more likely to know the Homeric story.]
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    I would'nt Mikie.

    A magical name is, as has been previously stated, a way of showing
    that you've entered a new stage of life.  As an addition here, you
    also get a new astrological chart with each initiation.
    
    As for telling someone outside your circle, I would reccommend against
    it, unless you *really* trust the person involved, and want to allow
    them to contact you on a magical level.
    
    As for choosing a name, choose something that calls to you, feels
    right to you, is given to you by your mentor/teacher/shaman/guide.
    If it is wrong or becomes wrong, you will know when to change it
    to what.
    
    Elizabeth

    Anybody have a copy of the poem? (About cats names, by T.S. Elliot?)
    
    DW

    Re .12:
    
    It appears in a number of "cat book" anthologies; more important,
    it appears in Eliot's _Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats_, which
    was the mother lode for the Broadway stage musical, _Cats_.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

In contrast to the "dynamic naming" viewpoint that (i think) we've
been discussing, there is also another view that someone better versed
than i in classical philosophy might be able to come up with a label
for (e.g., Platonist, Aristotelian, neo-Platonist, etc.).

This is the view that names are keys to the essence of the thing
described, and that every thing has a _true name_ which preexists
instantiations of the thing itself.  Knowledge of this true name gives
one magical control over the thing.  Thus, learning the name of the
demon one raises is key to giving a black magician control over that
demon (**do not construe this statement as in any way condoning the
raising of demons or black magic**).  In this model, also, the name
that one receives from a parent or mentor in a puberty rite is not
"just" a name which that person has decided (with whatever appropriate
spirit guidance) is right for you, rather it is THE name which has
been waiting for you since the beginning of time.

(The most famous surviving prose work assuming this viewpoint is the
beginning of the Gospel attributed to St. John, by the way.  But the
concept has shown up in numerous other places too.)
							paul c.

    Reply to .14; Connelly,
    
    Years ago, as a Christian, I was given the gift of speaking in tongues.
    After making the turn around the spiritual corner I found that I
    didn't loose that gift.
    
    Speaking in tongues has been at times defined as a prayer language and
    at other times babble. I still think that it's a soul language or
    possibly a past life language. I use it at times (singing) to calm
    myself and have in the past entered into altered states of
    consciosness.
    
    Well to get on with the story, I was meditating recently and wondered
    if I have a soul language name for my cat. The name came to me. I won't
    tell anyone for the sake of the cat (just in case it's correct B^). 
                                                                     
    The sound of the name fits the cat, but means nothing in English, or
    perhaps anyother human language. I wonder if soul language could be one
    step toward a universal spiritual language we have all forgotten?
    
    Perhaps this is one way of dynamicly finding the name of an entity.
    
    P.S.  Anybody got a "Soul Language to English Dictionary"?? B^) 

    
    This topic on 'magical names' is something I've never heard of before.
    Interesting!
    
    Along these lines, in the past I have thought of myself in 3 different
    frames of references (past self, present self and future self).
    Now that I realize there is something called 'spiritual growth' (Thanks
    Scott Peck), I try to assimilate the information received in 'present
    self', try to relate it to 'past self' if possible - otherwise create
    a new frame of reference for it and go from there - with the end
    goal of not being stuck in prior ruts as a result of not learning
    from 'present self' and always drawing solely on experiences in
    the 'past self' frame(s) of reference(s).
    
    Shirley MacLaine says this quite well when she writes, "I accept
    things on *their own* terms - not on *my* terms".
                                            
    Cindy 

    I feel really stupid, but even after reading this note and its replies,
    I still don't understand the purpose of magical names.  Could someone
    try to explain their meaning to me? 
    Also, is the origin of magical names from the ancient Egyptians?
    I remember learning that there is one true name of God, and if someone
    were to learn this name, they would gain the knowledge of the universe.
    Do these magical names basically follow that same belief?
    Thanks in advance!
    
    Jennifer