Conference hydra::dejavu

    I have known some people who work with these types of spirits.
    They seem to tell you that they 'see' a presence of a _____ around
    you.
    
    I kind of think that they are kind of a personification of an aura
    - they seem to use them the same way that people relate to auras.
    
    Elizabeth

      re: -.1
      
    Thanks, but an aura is different (there are several levels of
    etheric body beyond...) than what I'm talking about.  What I seek
    is the ability to see someone *else's* counselors (in whatever
    way they manifest, e.g. as your great-grandmother or some other
    entity) or to be able to *see* the elves or fairies (in the original
    sense of that word) or other *visible* entities that some people
    claim to clearly see.  If you can see them, has it always been so
    with you (since early age, e.g.) or is it something that you've
    developed?
      
       ...and I'm not talking about hallucinations either.
      
    Frederick
    

    re: -.1
      YES!  Very good!  I want to know more about this...
     
    Frederick
    

    What makes you guys think that "imaginary playmates" aren't just
    that....imaginary?
    
    Next time a person claims to see an elf, have him make the elf do
    something you can see!
    
    Elves.  C'mon guys!
    
    John M.

    Re .5:
    
    >Elves.  C'mon guys!
    
    Well, it's a valid question.  But the whole mythology of elves,
    brownies, kobolds, trolls, knockers, bogies, and the Hedley Kow,
    among others, probably has some underlying basis worth probing.
    
    It might well be that the vast majority of the imaginary playmates
    are just that, but as I've said elsewhere, one has to dig through
    a lot of chaff to find a little wheat.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    RE: 2
    
    You're not talking about hallucinations? How do you know
    the difference? How do I know you're right?
    
    re: 5
    
    I'm with you. The only thing that hasn't been mentioned yet
    are dust devils and leprechauns. Do they belong in this category? 
    For that matter, if Santa's elves are real, where's Santa? Maybe Santa
    is a figment of *their* imagination...
                                  
    Maybe all those poor people in mental institutions who talk to
    themselves are really having a two-way conversation with their
    friendly, positive-energy-charged, shoulder-perching thingie.
    
    Ditto for the homeless street person and/or alcoholic. 
    
    re: .6 
    
    Steve, you said it. Mythology is right.
    
    Discussions like this tend to throw a question of credibility over
    *everything* in this conference.
                         
    They also prove the vacuum that exists within the human spirit
    striving, wanting, yearning to believe in something beyond themselves.
                
    Irena
    
    

    Re .7:
    
    >I'm with you. The only thing that hasn't been mentioned yet
    >are dust devils and leprechauns. Do they belong in this category?
    
    Oh, there are plenty of other mythological creatures.  Surely, you've
    all heard of banshees....
    
    Dust devils are the name for small whirlwinds that pick up enough
    dust to be at least vaguely visible.  They belong in the category
    of meteorolocical (or minimeteorological) phenomena rather than
    paranormal ones.
    
    Actually, some of the elf legends come from a misinterpretation
    of early people who were thought to be smaller than they really
    were.  These were known as the 'little people," who were then assumed
    to have at least some supernatural abilities.  Dwarves were originally
    in this category (as in "Snow White and the Seven ..."), but then
    were used as a classification for a type of human well below median
    height.
    
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 
    

    I think I've heard (or read) somewhere, that "Snowwhite and the
    Seven Dwarfs", is a symbol relating to human internals... huh.
    
    Maybe some of these entities are indeed to interpreted as internal
    phonomenon rather than creatures in some external world/dimension 
    on plane.
    
    ...
    
    One theory says, that ancient knowledge is preserved in the form
    of fairytales, because they are less likely to be distorted, than
    exact knowledge.
    
    

    I recommend reading the book Findhorn Garden to understand a
    practical example of how people can communicate and harmonize
    with unseen beings including fairies, sprites, elves, and
    elementals.  In this case the harmony results in astounding
    production of garden vegetables and flowers.
    
    Once you understand the descriptions of how these beings communicate
    with other people who actually relate to them, you will gain a model
    for how you yourself could try to communicate, or at least a conception
    of what form the communication might take.
        
    I must admit that until I read Findhorn Garden I thought of these
    beings as consisting most likely of fantasy or hallucination, but
    since reading it (several years ago) my world view has expanded to
    allow for cohabitation with a variety of 'critters'.

					Todd

    I have had the good fortune to feel, not see, what i probably would
    have to describe as a communicated emotion from what I have since
    found out was the feminine entity known as the Holy Spirit, on several
    occasions; each time it was in a situation where I was in a mental
    flux or state of confusion, where I was tuned in to a sort of planetary
    sadness, tuned into thought vibrations from other people on a massive
    scale, and thus acutely perceiving this sadness that is so intense
    as to have driven many, many people to such a state of desperation
    that they begin to question whether or not there is a right or wrong,
    begin to question the basic working or integrity of the universe;
    I sort of threw this up (in my mind) to God in the form of a question
    sort of like, "Why? Why?",and I felt an incredible feeling of love,
    of VERY STRONG, very wise and all-comprehending love, and I perceived
    that it was feminine; it wasn't exactly a precise answer to my
    question, but more of a communication that made the question
    unnecessary.
    Also, many people communicate with their "guides"; who are usually
    highly developed souls who have evolved beyond the need of earthly
    incarnations, many of whom I am told have passed up a chance to
    go to a more pleasant place, in order to remain around the earthly
    plane and help to guide others through the incrediblly difficult
    situations we seem to be always putting ourselves through. ("Curious
    how you humans so often manage to obtain that which you do not
    want"...Mr. Spock); these entities occasionally will allow themselves
    to be seen; I had occasion once to be having a very intense dream
    that built up to a very intense situation in the dream; and right
    at the climax of the dream (which was a human head exploding), I
    woke up with a start to find that I could not open my eyes, nor
    could I rise up out of the bed; and my whole body was tingling with
    an almost electrical web of sensation (very positive, very loving
    in a strong, wise "impersonal" way); I remember very distinctly
    laying there physically trying to rise up out of bed, and being
    held down by some sort of pressure to the bed; and I couldn't open
    my eyes at all; this lasted about five seconds, at which point suddenly
    I could open my eyes and the pressure that held me to the bed was
    gone; and as I opened my eyes I saw a white, shimmering field of
    light move across my bedroom and out the door; the tingling sensations
    had every hair on my body on end, and were quite noticible; at the
    time I had been denying to myself the existence of anything I couldn't
    see, I had been reading about a lot of the stuff that is discussed
    in this very conference and denying it to myself,and this experience
    had the effect of proving to me that there are indeed things that
    exist and yet may not deign to reveal themselves in the middle of
    a laboratory full of skeptical, disbelieving scientists who want to
    conduct tests on their energy field.
    
    I do not know about elves, fairies, or other forms of life such
    as this, except to say that I once asked someone who had learned
    to communicate with his guides, to ask them if vampires and werewolves
    exist anywhere in the world (I had just seen a very realistic movie
    about 18th century vampires), and he said the reply was that these
    creatures do NOT exist on an earthly plane; I think if they "exist"
    anywhere it is as a collective group of human thoughts and images
    of them; however my question was specifically about vampires and
    werewolves, not anything else.
    
    As for sensing these presences more fully, I would suggest you try
    to remember how your outlook on things was as a small child; try
    to get yourself to that frame of mind where you strip away all these
    years of empirical learning, skepticism, and analytical thinking
    and imagine yourself as being a child again; and fill your heart
    and mind with as much love as you can; if you do this you will create
    an environment that they will feel much more comfortable coming
    to, and if you ask them to in this frame of mine, I guarantee you
    they will make themselves known to you, though it may not be right
    at that time.
    
    Hope I didn't drift away from your question, I don't think I did
    if I read it right.
    
    Doug
    
    

    	I read that people once thought that early humans (Adam and Eve,
    as they naturally used Biblical interpretations) were *giants*,
    not dwarves, as during the Medieval period, a mammoth leg bone was
    found, and the people of the time thought it was the leg bone of
    a giant human who lived before the time of the Flood (the one Noah
    survived).
    
    	Larry
    

    A book by Adela Rogers St.Johns (I forgot the name :-() about
    reincarnation mentioned "invisible playmates" in that context. It's
    a small book, mostly recounting her personal experiences which
    convinced her of the "truth" of reincarnation.
    
    Mrs. St.Johns was visiting a friend, and had taken her granddaughter
    along for the first time. (I read this a while ago, so some of the
    details are fuzzy) When the youngster came into the living room,
    she saw a photograph of the friend's son who had been killed in
    WWI, long before the birth of this child. The little girl said,
    "Oh! There's "X"" shocking both Mrs. St.Johns and her friend.
    
    The little girl explained that "X" had often played with her in
    her sandbox, and she described the WWI doughboy uniform completely,
    from the "pie-tin" hat to the mess kit, leggings, etc. If I remember
    correctly, the upshot was that the son wanted to tell his mother
    that he was OK, she should stop mourning for him (apparently she
    had, for numerous years), to pray for him and let him go so he could
    move on.
    
    He had known the little girl's mother, and knew that she (mother)
    was psychic (though she didn't know it herself) - and used the most
    receptive person (the girl) to make contact with the mother so he
    could get his message to his *own* mother.
    
    If I remember correctly, they stayed in touch with him on and off
    over a course of years, and he contacted them if he felt they needed
    guidance. After the girl's mother was able to contact him regularly,
    he stopped coming back to play with the child.
    
    Supposedly happened. Adela Rogers St.Johns is (was?) not a flighty
    person, and is (was?) an extremely intelligent, articulate woman.
    I can't see her fabricating this out of whole cloth.
    
    BTW - for a paranormal-with-Christian-perspective novel, read Tell
    No Man by Mrs. St.Johns (if you can find it, anymore)
    
    Dawn
    

    I once read a book written by a man with very strong psychic abilities.
    As a young child, he played with many "imaginary playmates".  When
    he described these playmates to his mother, she identified them
    as being relative who had died at a very early age.  Cousins, I
    think.
    
    Also, this man used to do seminars in which he would talk about
    his psychic abilities, and many people watching him on stage (different
    people at different seminars) would tell him that they could see
    what they thought was the vision of the Virgin Mary kneeling near
    him on the stage.
    
    Debbie

        Thanks for these inputs...they are very helpful to my 
    understanding of my beliefs.  My particular interest was most
    closely answered by .10, but many of the others fit in well, too.
        Of interest to me also is that we fear "outside" recriminations
    so much that though we are striving to discover that which
    lies outside the "normal" perceptions of ourselves we hesitate to
    look at things we consider too strange even for us.  You talk
    about Oiuja boards, demons, paranormal activities, etc., etc.,
    and yet for some reason talking about elves becomes too "airy-
    fairy."  I'm sorry, but that doesn't follow.  Who says that positive
    unseen entities don't exist even though we "accept" that negative
    unseen entities, do?  I'm not accusing anyone, for clearly if one
    had spoken with me just a half-dozen years ago I would have called
    all of us crazy or delusional.  Since that time I have learned a
    great deal.  I now practice many "delusional" (in my "past")
    activities.  I will be practicing even more as I learn about them.
         As I stated in the base note, I am aware of people who work
    with elves and fairies (as some late replies correlated) and seem
    to enjoy not only the companionship, the spirit of harmony, the
    joy and laughter that they share, but also are "guided" in their
    creative outputs by the contributions of these "unseen friends."
    What I am after is allowing that interaction to become available
    to me.  I do not feel that I am going off any deep ends in so doing,
    for I feel, as I almost always do, that I am in complete control
    over myself and the reality in which I exist and live.  
         I hope it is clear that *something* exists because, as SK,
    Jr. stated, many people report it as so.  Just as many report seeing
    UFO's, so many see the other.  I welcome any more input or additions.
    And, thanks again.
      
    Frederick
    

	The base note coments/questions are very close to what spiritist
	religio-phylosophical groups seek and try to answer. I would like to 
	elaborate on some of this groups dogmas and ideas on the organization 
	of the invisible world as a basis for posible explanations on the
	phenomena... 


				**********

	The invisible world is composed of spirits. These spirits are/were
	created by God, to inhabit the worlds as living beings. In this way
	they will purify their essence and acquire knowledge on the creation
	and its mysteries. In their purification path, they will inhabit several
	worlds incarnated in a physical form, or "body". As they progress spiri-
	tually, they will also progress physicaly; that is, a point will be
	archieved in where a physical body is no longer needed as part of this
	purification proccess. Be so because the spirit has already archieved
	perfection, or because he is "granted" permision (or ordered)to continue
	the procces in a different way. 

	A spirit may ask permision or ordered to continue on the path to perfe
	ction by other means for one of the following reasons:

		- He had found the shock of re-incarnation distorts his psyche
		  so much that he may actually lose his inner identity thus not
		  being able to face his "destiny" (note: by this I mean to face
		  his future life events; I don't imply here pre-destination).

		- His essence is to "weak"; he would probably no survive the
		  shock of re-incarnation.

		- He has reached a point in where re-incarnation is no longer
		  usefull for him; that is, he has aqcuired _wisdom_.

		- His essence has distorted (or turned "evil"), so that he is
		  no longer allowed to re-incarnate. (Only God can overrule 
		  this).

	All spiritual beings strive for perfection; that is a Divine command,
	even those turned "evil" try to; however under their distorted views
	the err the path.

	And so being that all spirits *must* continue seeking purification, they
	do so thru their incarnated brothers, in our case "Mankind".

	Some spirits become "guides", others "messengers", others "Teachers",
	and many of them just atach themselves to whoever they find "consonant 
	with their esence". 

	Their presence remain transparent to mankind. Only their "effects"
	are allowed to be felt (and this to certain extent); however, under
	extraordinary circumstances they can manifest themselves, and when they
	do so they do it according to the skills they had acquired which depends
        on their degree of development. Also, the one they choose to show them-
	selves must be in the proper frame of "mind" (his essence must have 
	certain degree of development). This could be called, the gift of medium
	ship, which can be mainfested in several ways:
	
		- Tiptologicaly__ the mediumship of hearing.
		- Grafologicaly__ the mediumship of writing.
		- Voyancy      __ the mediumship of seeing
		- The Physical Medium__the mediumship of physicaly lending the 
		     		body to a spiritual entity.

	Depending on the receptors' "ability" is how he will perceive the spiri-
	tual being trying to make contact (and how the spirit, that is if its a
	spiritual being of high order, chosses to manifest). Sometimes a spirit
	of low order tries to make contact and it is successfull in doing so, 
	but lacking the skills to do it right, the impresion he leaves may not
	be the right one. But in other cases, this is done purposely by the
	spirits of high order. This is done by them so that depending on the
	mental background of the receptor, he may not be highly disturbed by the
	manifestation (or the contrary if that is their will); also, when more 
	than one of them wants to comunicate different aspects of the same truth
	to the receptor, having a common "form" is highly helpfull, this avoids 
	confusion in the receptors mind to as who (or what) said this and that.

	The ability of the receptor for perceiving spiritual beings mostly
	depends on the quality of the essence in his own spirit.( This is not
	to be confused with the development of the inner eye, which serves 
	quite different purposes). The manifestation of a spirit of high order
	will invariably be feel as a peace-tranquility-full sensation, providing
	energy, bringing counseling answers to disturbing questions. The effects
	of a manifestation of spirits of low order will really depend on what
	class do they belong to. For example, there are those in need of counsel
	and peace and they bring with them an atmosphere of necesity, there are
	those who are still tied to the material world and are desperately seek-
	ing to feel again, to be recognized as material beings; those bring with
	them an atmosphere of confusion, and sometimes they behave in a play-
	fully maner, and there are those who want to convey messages, to take
	care of their loved ones, and who sometimes are in reality seeking for-
	giveness, those usually bring an atmosphere of despair and sorrow. But
	one thing in common these all have: they create in the compasionate
	receptor the need to help, to ilustrate, to enlighten.

	Contrary to all this are those evil ones; and regretfully this are the
	the most difficult to recognize, because these are like the chamaleon,
	they disguise themselves and assume all kinds of forms and manifesta-
	tions. Ah ! but they can not hide themselves from the true ones !!
	Because their presence always brings a vacumm-like state, trying to
	absorve the energy of the receptor, draining him of his precious elan-
	vitale, trying to turn his light into darkness. So feeling and intuition
	are the only safeguards of the one who sees.

	And, how to develop (grow, increment) essence ?
	This is rather difficult. Because essence is the by-product of experi-
	ence, and intuition; the _right_ experience. Experience that gives
        us knowledge, strenght and wisdom; intuition, which guides us
        thru the unknown. And paradoxically, the ones that manifest
        essence in its purest state are the children and those about
        to die. The children because they function mostly by intuition
        and those about to die because the proximity to the invisible
        world opens the door.
	


				**********


	So as you can see, this is just one more posible explanation for the
	apearances of those funny little rascals. I should mention that 
	althrough there are various schools of thinking in the domain of 
	Spiritist phenomena (European spiritism, Kardec-ian spiritism, Scien-
	tific spiritism) they mostly differ on their procceses rather than in
	the general ideas outlined above.




- JSR -
                             

         Wow!  Just when you thought it was "safe" to go into
    the water...
      
         This weekend past, I was visiting with my girlfriend (who
    lives 100 miles away in Sonoma) when I mentioned this topic about
    elves and fairies.  Well, it just so happened that about eight years
    ago she picked up this "children's" book for her daughter called
    "Angels and Indians" by Joan Hodgeson (c. 1974)
         Saturday night we read it through.  It comes incredibly close
    to what Lazaris and some of you respondants have talked about! 
    It seems that someone photographed some fairies in 1920 (there were
    a series of 5 different plates taken by two children approximately
    10 years of age in England.)  These plates (very unsophisticated camera
    equipment) were then placed under the scrutiny of various photographic 
    experts of the day and verified as to their authenticity.  Not only did
    the pictures appear to be unaltered, said they, but that the fairies shown
    actually indicated movement. (The prints were reproduced in the
    book.)
     
          The next part of the book deals with an American Indian named
    White Eagle who apparently channeled through a white woman.  He
    had apparently died several decades before and had had his picture
    painted by a white artist who corroborated the woman's description
    of him.  Anyway, part of this story also dealt
    with the American Indians (I don't have the book with me and I forget
    which tribe)and their belief in fairies and sprites, etc.  This
    particular tribe was described as extremely happy and peaceful and
    always with abundance.  Their demise was (of course) attributed
    to the intrusion of the white man (who of course didn't believe
    in such things as these "barbarians.")  
        Part of what is fascinating for me here is that the book was
    written "for children".  I attribute this to the fact that in 1974
    it was probably very difficult to try to pass on this information
    to adults (as it obviously still is, at least to some extent, based
    on some of the respondants to this topic.)  Also, children were always
    (and even now) more open to see with their "inner eyes" than adults
    have been or are.       
        I have no idea as to the availability of this book, but it might
    be worth a reading...it's short and will only take about 30 minutes
    to read.  Incidentally, the publisher: "White Eagle Publishing Trust."
     
        So, still don't believe in the positive underworld?
      
     
    Frederick
    

    There was a program on the tube about a year ago that interviewed the
    two sisters. They are now fairly old. In the interview they described
    how they faked the fairy pictures. They also told why they faked the
    pictures. If memory serves me correctly they wanted attention.
    It may have been Ripiles Believe It or Not. Sorry to bring you down.
    

         re: -.1
          Now that you mention it, I somewhat hazily recall something
    of what you tell about.  I didn't like the pictures anyway!
    Well, so much for that part of it.  As I said in my reply name,
    it hadn't made much sense to me that photographs could detect what
    "adults" couldn't (using regular 'ol back and white film,) and yet
    the children could.  To me, this doesn't disprove the concept,
    just shows the carnival atmosphere that has always existed among
    the "unenlightened."  I will continue to try to see, however, with
    my "inner eyes."
      
    Frederick
    

    Re last_few:
    
    The faked fairy pictures have been discussed in several books and
    articles.  The fairy pics were taken from some illustrations (magazine
    or book), mounted on cardboard, and photographed with the little
    girls.  The clincher was that years later, someone found the original
    illustrations in anotther copy of whatever publication was used.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 

    Fairies--
    
    Last year, I was visiting my uncle and aunt.  At the time, my
    cousin and her three children were also there.  A topic of
    conversation was what exactly had two of the children seen a
    few days prior to my visit.
    
    Apparently, the little girl (6 years old) and the little boy
    (10 years old) had been playing out in the front yard.  It was
    late afternoon, not quite dark.  The little girl saw a "little
    man" with ragged clothes, a button nose, a very broad mouth,
    and mittens (or hands with fewer fingers), no shoes; looking at
    her while perched on the mail box.  The little boy saw another
    little man, same type of description, looking at him from underneath
    one of the cars.  He also said that the creature disappeared by
    taking 3 steps and then faded.  My uncle sat the two kids down,
    about 20 minutes after they came into the house, and had them
    draw a picture of the "little men".  The pictures seemed to 
    illustrate the same type of creature.  Those kids really believed
    that they had seen the "little men".
    
    What amazed me, is that this was NOT in some little wooded area,
    but in  a busy city, on the outskirts of L.A.  I guess they don't
    mind the pollution...
    
    --E
    

        This note is to serve as a pointer to note 153.  Until yesterday
    I was somehow unaware of its existence.  Had I been aware of it
    when I started this note, this note would not have been started
    here.  My apologies to those who may have felt somehow "shunned"
    by "ignoring" their previous inputs.
     
        While I am at it, thank you to you who contributed to this in
    providing the intimate information I was seeking.
     
    
    Frederick