Conference hydra::dejavu

    I believe that non-sensory thoughts are called "feelings", like
    intuition.  I know that there are feelings that cannot be described
    in sensory terms, but only as "knowledge".  Is this what you mean?
    
    Another thought I had while reading your note was about a time that
    I was dancing and close to a trance (my usual state when dancing)
    and I "felt" a light (light not being a "feelable" thing).  
    
    Am I getting close to what you were asking about?
    
    Sheila
    

re: -1
Well said. I had the same reaction. Feelings are very strong sometimes
and cannot be explained. I define them in the same terms, as 'knowledge'.

Interesting about 'feeling the light'. Many spiritualties preach opening
the heart to the light. Some meditation techniques teach feeling the
light, letting the light in through the crown and out the heart, as
flowing energy. I've tried, but haven't felt it yet.

    Re: .2
    
    When I felt the light, I wasn't "trying" to.  It just happened and
    I never expected it.  It was a wonderful experience.  
    
    S
    

<--- Yep. I get the 'feeling' that trying isn't the answer. It happens.

    
    ""information" received from these non-sensory types of knowing
    are usually not translatable into thoughts(concepts)" -
    
    Does that imply they cannot be remembered ?
    
    peter
    
    
    

    Re; .6
    
    "These kinds of thoughts" would not need to be remembered...they
    just *are* (as in a constant state of the now).    
    
    Am I making sense?
    
    Sheila
    

    Sometimes, without any memorable images, feelings are all that exist
    in a dream.  Fear, sadness, joy, etc.  These are thoughts which
    are not sensory in origin.
    
    Comments?
    

    There is something in philosophy called "the grounding problem".
    It may be described in many ways, but it has to do with how thoughts,
    such as words or images, are tied to what they represent.
    
    One consequence of this is that it is easy to see that sensation
    is not at the root of thought.  Otherwise, it would *always* be
    easy to accurately define what we mean by a word, either by a formal
    verbal/written definition or by pointing (e.g., by drawing a picture).
    
    Although thoughts may be disconnected from sense-memories/experiences
    they may still be derived from them, e.g., by abstraction and
    generalization.
    
    Emotions are clearly real, but its a bit hard to distinguish them
    from our many internal sensations (conventional science recognizes
    5 major *external* clusters of senses and a very large number of
    internal ones).  Its a bit hard for me to  entirely separate the concept
    of "fear", for example, from the knot in my stomach, the pounding
    heart, the sweating, etc. which is my bodies reaction to fear (or
    maybe its vice versa).
    
    In any case, to answer the original question directly -- I frequently
    have in dreams knowledge about the dream situation which was not
    provided by anything sensed *in* the dream.  Even if the concept
    is verbally expressible (e.g., "this house is on Mars") the dream
    did not contain the words.  This piece of the dream is not a dream
    image, or a dream sound, but a dream concept or a dream memory.
    If you look at the descriptions of peoples dreams in this file,
    you'll find many examples of this ("Somehow I just knew that ...").
    
    					Topher

Recently I've been having strong feelings in my naval area, chest area, and
third eye.  The feelings are hard to describe but they seem to be triggered
by thoughts or events outside myself.  The feelings come on pretty suddenly
and I ususally can't figure out what's causing them.  Right before lunchtime
today, I started having an anxious feeling that corresponded with a peculiar
feeling in my naval area.  Now it's gone.  There are times when I'm having an
"intense" conversation with someone and I get a tingling/tightness in my
forehead.  Just writing about it now I have this very sensation.  I don't know
what it's about but it's only been happening for 2-3 months.

		Dave

    This feeling I have had,and frequentally(sp?) have,sometimes once
    in a while,and other times for hours at a time.
    It's sort of a discorporation with my senses,and my physical being.
    
    I find myself overlooking things in my immediate surroundings,and
    places quite far away from where I'm feeling them.
    For instance,last night I had this feeling for about 45 mins. or
    so,while I was rehearsing. 
    I could see everything,including myself. I (my soul,spirit) was
    above all of the people around me. Not taking part in what was going
    on,just observing. I also could see what was going on in a differant
    part of the building,pictured everything there and confirmed it
    by checking it out before I left for the evening....
    
    Is this just me thinking,and picturing this in my mind,or is it,could
    it be actually happening?
    
    Jeff

RE: .11
    
    What you describe is one kind of what in psychology is called a
    "disassociative state."  In parapsychology it is refered to as an
    OBE (or Out of Body Experience; in older literature sometimes
    abbreviated as OOBE).  If you use the NOTE search facility to find
    notes containing OBE and OOBE you'll find a fair number of references
    in this file.
    
    The nature of OBEs is rather in contention in parapsychology.  I'd
    say that the mainstream opinion is that OBEs represent a
    "psychological" state rather than an actual projection of anything.
    The experience, however, whatever its physical/neurological/
    psychological causes, is very real, valid, and not at all crazy.
    It is simply one "mode" in which the brain processes information.
    Occasionally (but not generally) it is a symptom of epilepsy.
    
    Actually, an OBE is probably a characteristic of a number of otherwise
    quite different states of consciousness.  Sometimes people learn
    things during an OBE, or effect things during one, which there would
    seem to be no physical way of doing.  In *parapsychology* therefore,
    the mainstream opinion is that some of the states which create OBEs
    are psi-conducive (i.e., increase ESP and PK consistent with the
    world-view engendered by the state).
    
    An important minority of parapsychologists believe that at least
    some OBEs represent more than an illusion of seperation from the
    body, but reflects such a reality.  They make a strong case, but
    one which is not yet, in my opinion, conclusive.
    
    Its important to keep in mind that our view of the outside world,
    including our position in it, is a "construct" based on sensory
    input.  Placing our bodies within the "complete picture" is an
    important function (memories of events are frequently reoriented
    in an OBEish fasion, for example), and there is no reason why that
    broader view should not become at times the conscious orientation.
    
    					Topher