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Conference hydra::dejavu

Title:Psychic Phenomena
Notice:Please read note 1.0-1.* before writing
Moderator:JARETH::PAINTER
Created:Wed Jan 22 1986
Last Modified:Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2143
Total number of notes:41773

407.0. "Saint Germain " by GRECO::GADDIS () Wed Jul 15 1987 13:35

Recently, I have been reading about a person who supposedly never died.  This 
person was Saint Germain.  In the beginning of the book they attempt to make 
you believe the Saint Germain was Columbus, Washington, Bacon and others.  

The book is published by Summit University Press and this University offers 
courses around his teaching.

Has anyone heard of the Saint Germain, know anything about the man, his 
life(s) or had dealing with the Summit University.

Regards,
peace

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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407.1ERASER::KALLISHallowe'en should be legal holidayWed Jul 15 1987 13:457
    St. Germain was a count who some said had paranormal powers.  There
    are a few cults devoted to his memory.  My memory's a bit rusty
    on him.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    P.S.: "Summit University"?  I wonder if it's accredited...
407.2What little I know...SSDEVO::ACKLEYNo final answers hereWed Jul 15 1987 14:2851
    	The "Summit Lighthouse" and "Summit University" are lead by
    Elizabeth Claire Prophet.    She has written many books which claim
    to be channneled information from members of "The Great White
    Brotherhood", of which Saint Germain is said to be a member.
    She was (is?) married to Mark Prophet, who (if I remember right)
    died in the '50s or '60s, and has now become a spirit guide, helping
    her write these books.
    	Her more recent books seem to be much better written than her
    earlier works.   Also Ms Prophet (called "Guru Ma" by her followers)
    appears to be keeping her youthful good looks for a lot longer than
    the average woman.   (but then so has Joan Collins...)    I do object
    to the Summit Lighthouse Press' habit of publishing some of her
    books under the name of the channeled entity, without clearly
    indicating on the cover that this is channeled material, since this
    appears deceptive.
	The Summit lighthouse has centers in Pasadena, Calif, and
    a school (university?) in Montana, as well as a center near the
    Broadmoor hotel in Colorado Springs.  (there may be others.)
    	The teachings have a LOT in common with the theosophical tradition
    started by Ms Blavatsky.   In particular "Koot-Hoomi" and "El Morya",
    who sent messages to Ms Blavatsky, are cited as "authors" of books
    channeled by Ms Prophet.   She has also claimed to channel Mary,
    the mother of Jesus.
	In my opinion, the channeled writing is not as high quality
    her own words.   The introductions to her books (written in her
    own name) I find more interesting than the main body of the books
    which are channeled material.
	Some "Christians" have labled her organization as a "cult",
    which it may well be.   Some of my friends have attended services
    at the Colorado Springs center, and tell me that they do a lot of
    chanting.   Some of the stuff they are said to chant are along the
    lines of "All hail Saint Germain", over and over.   A former girlfriend
    has told me her mother was "hypnotized" by this group to give away
    all the family resources, and testified that the beliefs and practices
    had practically destroyed her family.
    	I have not been personally involved, and have met only people
    who are periphally involved, so I will reserve my judgement on this.
    I have seen both apparent evil and apparent good in the writings
    and effects on people.   I have read all of 2 of her books, and
    part of four others.   I really enjoyed some of the reading, and
    found other portions relatively useless.
	Similar to Eckankar (sp?), she teaches that people can
    "immortalize" their bodies, can contact "ascended masters", of
    which Jesus Christ is said to be one, and that the members of
    this brotherhood are the true rulers of the universe.
	I hear she has a castle in Pasadena, that she calls "Camelot",
    and that she holds court there, and often wears a crown.   I think
    I would enjoy meeting her, a truely interesting and unique person,
    and probably would not enjoy being a member of her organization.
    
	Alan.
407.4SSDEVO::ACKLEYNo final answers hereThu Jul 16 1987 02:2824
    
    	Morgan Le Fey, who was supposedly King Arthurs sister, Count
    Cagliostro, and also Saint Germain, each have generated legends
    of immortality in the Europe of a few hundred years ago.   Each
    was said to have travelled around from capitol to capitol for
    far longer than the hundred years or so most of us would expect
    to live.   
    	Each of them were involved in practices that might be termed
    magical or alchemical.   Saint Germain was said to possess unlimited
    wealth from his practice of alchemy.   In particular he was said
    to be able to manufacture diamonds, or to heal flaws in already
    existing diamonds, through alchemical means.
    	The introduction to Elizabeth Claire Prophet's book "Saint
    Germain On Alchemy" summarizes most of the legend as recorded
    in standard historical sources.   Ms Prophet seems to stick to
    verifiable sources only in the introduction to this book.   The
    main body of the book is channeled material devoid of footnotes.

    	Having long been interested in legends of people who have
    attained physical "immortality", I would very much like to know
    if anyone knows of other, more historically oriented works
    exploring the lives of such people.   

    	Alan.
407.5Central American ImmortalsHPSCAD::DDOUCETTECare for life.Thu Jul 16 1987 16:1014
    In the Carlos Castinada (sp?) books, there is a reference to an
    immortal group within the Toltecs.  One of Don Juan's teacher's
    teacher was one of these immortals who traded "a piece of spirit"
    to be taught how to be a Brujo.  I forgot which of the 6 books it
    was in, but I think it was one of the "middle ones".
    
    I think that Don Juan's comment about immortiality went something
    like "not a bad idea, but it seems a terrible way to live."  Any
    I think the comments here are fasinating.
    
    Dave Doucette
    9 Saint Germain Ave.
    Blackstone, Mass.
    
407.6ErrataHPSCAD::DDOUCETTECare for life.Thu Jul 16 1987 16:124
    Oops, rephrase: the teacher's teacher traded "a piece of spirit"
    to be taught how to be a Brujo.
    
    Dave
407.7Better late than later.PBSVAX::COOPERTopher CooperFri Sep 11 1987 19:27134
    I was scanning for notes about Saint-Germain, and discovered that
    one which I had spent quite a bit of time typing up hadn't gotten
    posted.  Here it is.

			    Topher
__________________________________________________________________________
    As it happens I just read about Saint-Germain a few weeks ago.  It was
    in the informative and enjoyable _The Encyclopedia of the Strange_ by
    Daniel Cohen, published in paperback by Avon Books.

    Daniel Cohen is known in parapsychology as a "friendly skeptic".  What
    this boils down to is that he is more than willing to admit when there
    is a mystery or an anomaly -- he does not try to explain things away --
    but, however poorly the facts seem to fit the conventional theories, he
    takes a "wait-see" attitude.  In other words, he *really* is a skeptic,
    unlike many who claim that label.

    What this boils down to, is that his scholarship is to be trusted as
    much as anyone.  He has no particular ax to grind either way.

    Here is what he had to say [copied without permission].

			Topher

    *Saint-Germain*  The Comte de Saint-Germain never claimed that he
    possessed the Elixir of Life or that he had already lived several
    hundred years, but if others chose to believe such stories, he did not
    contradict them.

    No one knows for certain who Saint-Germain was, though we can be fairly
    certain that his name was not Saint-Germain and that he was not a
    count.  The best guess is that he was a Portuguese Jew and that he was
    born around the year 1710.

    Nothing at all is known of his early life.  Around the year 1740, he
    seems to have been arrested in London as a spy.  Somewhat later he
    turned up in Germany selling his Elixir of Life.  In around 1748, a
    French aristocrat visiting Germany met him, was intrigued, and induced
    him to settle in Paris.

    Saint-Germain was a man of great charm and persuasiveness.  He became a
    popular figure at the gatherings of the rich and well-born.  Quite soon,
    the most incredible stories about him began to make the rounds of
    Parisian society.  At one dinner party, so it was said, Saint-Germain
    was speaking with easy familiarity of King Richard the Lionhearted and
    of some of the conversations they had had while in Palestine together
    during the Crusades.  When some of the other guests were openly
    skeptical, Saint-Germain turned to his valet, who was standing behind
    his chair, and asked him to confirm the truth of the story.

    "I really cannot say, sir," the servant replied.  "You forget, sir, I
    have only been five hundred years in your service!"

    "Ah! True," said Saint-Germain.  "I remember now -- it was a little
    before your time."

    On one occasion, the king's mistress, Madame de Pompadour, complained,
    "But you do not tell us your age, and yet you pretend you are very old.
    The Countess de Gergy, who was, I believe, ambassadress at Vienna some
    fifty years ago, says she saw you there exactly the same as you now
    appear."

    "It is true, Madame," replied Saint-Germain.  "I knew Madame de Gergy
    many years ago."

    "But according to her account, you must be more than a hundred years
    old."

    "That is not impossible, but it is much more possible that the good
    lady is in her dotage."

    When Pompadour pressed Saint-Germain to give the king some of his
    celebrated elixir, he replied, "Oh, Madame, the physicians would have
    me broken on the wheel, were I to think of drugging his majesty."

    Saint-Germain treated his reputation for great wealth the same way he
    treated his reputation for great age -- he made no specific claims, but
    if people chose to believe that he possessed the alchemical secret of
    transmuting gold, or of making precious stones out of ordinary ones, he
    would not deny it.

    Once he showed Pompadour and her ladies a great quantity of sparkling
    stones.  Pompadour's practiced eye was quick to observe that almost all
    of the flashy stones were fakes.  But amid this collection of paste
    jewels he displayed a superb genuine ruby.  He also produced a small
    jeweled cross of good workmanship but moderate value.  When one of
    Pompadour's ladies expressed admiration for the little cross,
    Saint-Germain presented it to her, professing to disdain all wealth.
    So it seems that by clever mixture of real and false jewels, Saint-
    Germain managed to sustain his reputation for limitless wealth.  How he
    really did make his money is something of a mystery.  He may have made
    some by selling his Elixir of Life.  Some may have come from his
    activities as a spy.  Mostly, though, it appears he lived off the
    generosity of his many wealthy friends.

    Around the year 1670, Saint-Germain left Paris, for political reasons
    some said.  From that time onward, stories of his comings and goings
    are vague and unreliable.  It was rumored that he was in London,
    St. Petersburg, and in Germany.  He seems to have spent his final days
    at the court of his friend the Prince of Hesse-Cassel, dying there in
    the year 1782.

    What was the Comte de Saint-Germain?  Many believe he was nothing more
    than an extremely charming and clever fraud.  Even occultists who
    revere his memory admit that there was much of the actor about him.
    Yet his life was so shrouded in mystery that there is still room for
    doubt.  His true identity remains unknown.  The date and place of his
    birth are completely unknown, and the date of his death is uncertain.
    There are those who claimed, and still claim, that Saint-Germain never
    died.  From time to time during the past two centuries, people have
    turned up saying that they have met Saint-Germain or that they actually
    were Saint-Germain.  Most commonly, it is claimed that Saint-Germain
    has entered that vague world of semidivine and immortal masters of
    adepts.

    Saint-Germain is reputed to have founded a secret society called the
    Temple of the Mystery.  (His less successful and younger contemporary,
    the Count of Cagliostro, claimed to have been initiated into this
    society.)  After the long and difficult initiation period was
    completed, Saint-Germain passed on to his new followers the "great
    secret."  The "secret" was that Saint-Germain and his Elixir of Life
    were fakes.

    _Lives of the Alchemical Philosophers_ [no citation is given, the title
    is familiar though. Steve, do you know it?] states, "Several essential
    precepts were enjoined upon them, among others that they must detest,
    avoid and calumniate men of understanding but flatter, foster and blind
    fools; that they must spread abroad with much mystery and intelligence
    that the Comte de Saint-Germain was five hundred years old, and that
    they must make gold, but dupes before all."

    It is highly doubtful that the very careful Saint-Germain, whatever his
    private thoughts, would ever have been so candid.  But it makes a nice
    story.
407.8SQLRUS::EASTLANDSat Jan 13 1990 17:4213
    
    The Comte de Saint-Germain was reincarnated as Franz Bardon who died in
    the 1940's. Franz Bardon wrote 3 books on practical occultism, each of
    an extraordinary degree of difficulty. The first is entitled
    "Initiation into Hermetics". I met the publisher, Dieter Ruggeberg,  many 
    years ago, making a special journey from London to Wuppertal, West
    Germany to see him. That was at least 15 years ago. I don't know if he
    is still publishing Bardon's books or not. The books used to be available 
    at Watkins (Cecil Court, WC2) bookstore off Charing Cross road in London, 
    at Helios Book service, Glastonbury, Somerset, England (but this may
    be closed now!) or at Sphinx in Harvard Square. All these sources must
    now be suspect given how long ago I checked these places out.
    
407.9fyi - Sphinx is now SkylightCARTUN::BERGGRENBelieving is seeing...Mon Jan 15 1990 12:137
    re -1
    
    I remember going to the Sword and the Sphinx bookstore in Harvard
    Square a few years ago.  I believe it is now Skylight Books.  
    Same location.
    
    Karen
407.10From what I have read.....TADSKI::WAINELindaMon Jan 15 1990 17:5021
< Note 407.8 by SQLRUS::EASTLAND >


    >The Comte de Saint-Germain was reincarnated as Franz Bardon who died in
    >the 1940's. 

    There have been many people throughout the past century who have claimed
    to be the reincarnation of Count Saint Germain. From what I have read and 
    from my experiences with metaphysics/Spiritualism/etc.,  the Count, after 
    leaving Europe during the French Revolution, roamed about the Orient for 
    awhile and spends of great deal of time to this day in the Himalayas.  He 
    never reincarnated, because he was one of the few beings that I have
    heard of that ascended while still in the physical body.  He was said to 
    have lived in the same physical body for 8000 years, and is known as the
    "Man who never died".  There is a terrific book on the Count called
    "Comte de Saint-Germain" by Isabella Cooper.  Manley P. Hall wrote about
    the Count, also ("The Holy Trinosophia", "The Secret Teachings of the
    Ages", "Sages and Seers").

    Linda