Conference hydra::dejavu

    Thanx Steve for this topic;
    
    For me different states of organinism relate to the experienced
    passage of time and at what speed the organism moves.
    
    I think this creates an illusion of sorts.  The organism Mikie?
    perceives the rock as being still, inanimate, having no consciousness,
    not alive.  The rock Rockie? perceives mikie? as a small brief energy
    flash in its billion earth year life. Rockie? might also perceive the
    Sun as a brilliant energy source (heating and cooling) that stays with
    it constantly over those billions of years. For Mikie?s cells moving
    water and nutrients around takes perhaps a short period of time
    between cells. For the Planet Gaia moving water around takes days,
    weeks or months.  So I have to ask the question of "Does my
    consciouness create the illusion of life?"
    
    Consciousness present us with an illusion. If a thing operates at near
    or the same vibrational rate as I do I might percieve it as alive. If
    the thing operates at another vibrational rate/level or pattern is it
    alive also? Perhaps we are dealing with two unknown sums, vibrational
    rate and vibrational pattern. Perhaps if I find something that vibrates
    in a different pattern from what I operate at I would consider it
    inanimate, unconscious, and not alive. 
    
    I don't think vibration is a good term for this discussion. We need
    something that describes the relative rate of the speed of life and
    the life to death time ratio of the organism.
    
    I have been having this facinating thought run through my mind lately.
    How old is Mikie? Mikie?s organic consciousness is 31 years old. The
    elements in Mikie's body have been around since the origin of the
    Universe.  Mikie?s bodily elements have been around a long, long time.
    Conscious for Mikie? has only been around 31 years. I don't see a
    metaphysical difference between the elements in my body and the
    elements in the rock other than (perhaps illusionary) consciousness. 
                                              
    So does consciousness (perceived or otherwise) determine aliveness
    or state of organism or are their other criteria to consider?
    
      Mikie?

> If the thing operates at another vibrational rate/level or pattern is it
>  alive also? 

There already is a range of living rates, as it were.  What is the difference
between the lifetime of a bacterium and that of the giant redwood trees?  Each
are considered alive.  What would the 'bandwidth' be for life to be recognized
as such?

And of course, has the term 'life' actual been defined?   :-)

Joe

    	I have held a theory - based on the ideas of others going back
    thousands of years - that the whole Universe is one immense living
    being of a sort, with the intelligent races scattered throughout
    it acting as the Universe's "brains".
    
    	I was inspired to this idea by something Carl Sagan said in
    one of his COSMOS episodes on PBS-TV:  Sagan said that the humans
    race was a way for the Universe "to know itself".  This made me
    think that perhaps there were many other intelligent species throughout
    space, for if the Universe needed to "know itself", it is so huge
    that - like a large dinosaur - it would need more than one brain
    to accomplish such a task.  I don't know how many would feel about
    being considered a rather complex "brain cell" for the Universe,
    but it is an intriguing thought.
    
    	This is taking the concept of "what is alive" to a very far
    length.  What the Universe will do once it has enough intelligent
    races (and when they evolve to advanced states far beyond present
    humans) I can only wonder about.
                                                
        Larry
    

    
    	>What could we do differently than we do now?
    
    Oh Boy, that's easy: Respect it, as we respect the life of our own
    species_specific...Hmmmm, ok, *more* than we respect the life of
    our own...
    
    	>How does it effect us?
    
    It offers the opportunity to live in harmony, in resonance with it all.
    I think in lots of ways Homosapien (sp?) "bucks" the system. I think
    there is an "implicate order" in Nature, which surely effects us
    in the part we play.
    
    It's interesting how "periodic" things in nature are, from the
    vibrations of the molecules, to the spinning of the earth, to the
    alleged cyclic collapse and expansion of the universe. Does this
    "breathing" action drive life into what otherwise would be a very
    cold, static situation?
    
    Is everything "singing"? (at frequencies appropriate to the physical
    dimensions)
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    Lately I've wondered if we are not a sickness to the earth.  Like
    cancer cells out of control and just as destructive.  Perhaps she
    has been sleeping, one long night in the lifespan of the universe,
    and will awaken and shake us off and go about the business of life.

    I thought this excerpt would be of interest to you in relation to this
    note.  It is from a very small book called Links With Space by David
    Spangler (actually communications channeled through him) and is repeated
    here without the permission of the author.  It is quite lengthy.  When
    I read it I was so deeply touched that it rekindled a love for the Earth
    that was even stronger than I knew.  It is from this love that I repeat
    it here, and it is worth your taking the time to read.

    Regards,
    Carole


    "Communication from an Angelic Source - 21st June 1970

    Greetings to you, my beloveds.  I am Elouai and I am a builder.  I am
    grateful for this opportunity to communicate with you.  The presence of
    the music you have played has made it possible, for music is one of the
    tools which I use in my service to God.

    I am not upon your human line of evolution, but I am not one of what you
    call the Nature forces.  I stand with a company of others outside your 
    planet.  I am not a space Being from another planet.  My home is within
    the higher dimensional vibrations of space.

    I want to communicate to you what we feel about your Earth and your work.
    My companions and I are among those who dwelt in space and were brought
    here long ages ago as companions of the god who has created this solar
    system.  We are builders within His realm.  Every planet that is formed
    is in a dynamic state of life and of growth, drawing to itself the sub-
    stances of nourishment and releasing that which it cannot assimilate.
    Thus, there are those forms and manifestations of energy in creation
    which are the unused, unintegrated, unresolved and untransmuted results
    of the creative process.  As in all living systems, until perfection and
    complete wholeness are achieved, there are in the body of the Solar Logos,
    which is the solar system and all its planets on all their levels of being,
    those forces and energies which correspond to waste material.  These must
    be transmuted and reintegrated into the cycle of life as raw material for
    future creativity.  In the evolutionary movement forward through time, this
    residue which is left behind must be gathered up and purified, and then
    returned to the creative cycle; it cannot be allowed to accumulate or to
    express itself within the evolving body as centres of unintegrated and
    separate energies existing out of timing and out of place, hence becoming
    sources of evil.

    Because it is within your consciousness and in your hands to work on Earth
    and help your planet in Her work and because you seek to minister to your
    planet, as do we, I want to convey to you the picture of your world as we
    see it, so that you may approach Her in gentleness and love in the under-
    standing that will give you power through linking with us as cosmic forms
    of angelic life.  Please understand that for various reasons, Terra was
    set aside for the special task of being the purifier for your solar system
    for a period of time.  Hence, there were attracted to your world those
    elements which I have mentioned of unresolved, unintegrated matter, energy
    and life to be harnessed into the denser nature of material form.  Left in
    their exposed state, these energies had the power to impact harmfully upon
    the sensitive fabric of the solar Being and upon the other planets and 
    their life-forms, being like a toxin within the systems of your own bodies.
    However, by being encapsulated into dense matter within the body of Terra,
    their vibrations could be slowed down and shielded from the body of the
    whole until these energies could be purified and reintegrated harmoniously
    and in love into the whole.

    As this was done, the purifiers and redeemers came to Earth as well as
    those who will yet be purifiers and redeemers in destinies yet unperceived
    and perhaps undreamed of by you.  Terra became a schoolhouse in the
    experiences of confronting and resolving the challenges of primitive
    creativity and evolution.  Your planet became an arena for the interplay
    of the forces of evolution on many levels and the forces of non-integrated
    life and energy from many sources, some quite primitive and others more
    evolved, but all within a side-track of evolution that placed these
    energies outside the communion of the whole.  Thus, Earth became analogous
    to a kidney in the body of the solar system, regulating and transmuting the
    energies flowing throughout the system, removing impurities and returning
    to the body of the whole only what is harmonious and integrated with the
    progressive evolution of the whole.  Beings who had become tainted with 
    energies of retrogressive evolution or devolution would come to Terra to
    be cleansed and reunited with the whole.  In this fashion, your planet 
    has performed a tremendous service to all life-streams and all planetary
    systems within the solar family, enabling them to continue their patterns
    of development with greater ease.

    No planet or Being is asked to perform such a transmutative and sacrifi-
    cial task endlessly, nor is it allowed to do so.  The time must come when
    it takes up its own pattern of growth, new service and development.  Now
    Earth seeks and is given Her redemption in a vast initiatory process
    occurring throughout the total body and life of the Solar Father.  We who
    have associated with Earth since Her inception now look upon this time as
    one of beauty without measure, joy without comparison.  Those forms which 
    still remain within unregenerated aspects of primitive and separative
    expression will be lovingly removed, with respect for their essential
    Divine nature, to other areas which have newly taken on the transmutative
    function.  Now a vast work of purification is upon us to cleanse and 
    beautify Earth as one would beautify and enrobe a bride before her
    marriage; in this fashion we greet Earth in Her time of great joy and
    accomplishment.  This event seeks its expression through your hearts and
    minds and your dedication.

    Terra will always remain a place of special strength and contribution.
    Now she must progress with Her own evolution more rapidly than She could
    do if She remained within the service of transmutation.  Yet for what 
    She has done, I speak on Her behalf - I speak for Earth, one whom we love
    without ceasing, who is so beautiful to us, without a blemish or a flaw,
    Earth with all Her splendour as we see Her.  She emerged a beautiful
    goddess from the heart of the Solar Father to take into Her own strength
    the work of gathering in the products of unresolved evolution and giving
    them a chance to redeem and reintegrate themselves in harmony with the
    pattern of this system, without judgment, only with love.  For those that
    will be removed, there is no judgement, only the vision that in the body
    of the Solar Father and in the body of Earth, new vibrations must be made
    manifest with which certain forms of life and energy are no longer 
    compatible.

    Now from us, from your elder brethren of your race and from many sources
    of Light on other planets and within other evolutions, comes the hope to
    pour forth upon your world purification, redemption and cleansing, not
    destruction, not pain, not scarring.  We hope to see Earth lovingly 
    caressed in your light, in your love and in your wisdom with the negative
    accumulation of the past moved out.  No Beings can now enter Earth seeking
    this redemption; this is only for those who are already part of Terra's
    evolution through past association.  Because of this, you now see a great
    flood of population incarnating in order to take this opportunity for
    purification that they may maintain their link with solar evolution; 
    otherwise they must sleep the long sleep to be reawakened in a future
    time in a future land.  Some of the children of Earth will not be able
    to be removed, yet they will not be able to take incarnation now and
    interfere with the cycle that is now dawning, which is for Earth a time
    of purification, rest, healing and nourishment after Her long time as the
    servant of transmutation for the Solar Logos.  She has also served as a
    great instructress into primeval forms of creativity so that each one who
    has dwelt upon Terra has added to his consciousness the vibration of a
    purifier, a redeemer and a synthesizer.  These children who cannot take
    part in the drama now occurring will sleep, to return to Earth at a future
    date.

    Your work, as I see it, is in this process of purification but this does
    not imply a vision of pain and torment.  We would not rend Earth,; we
    would heal Her.  Because you are strong, you can heal and cleanse without
    fear, with love and with the tenderness which we would wish, with strength
    and firmness of being but yet with the gentleness of understanding.  We
    have known Earth for a long, long time, indeed since Her earliest founda-
    tions when She was a Being of radiant light.  We hail Earth and proclaim
    Her our Beloved.  We are dedicated to Her in every fiber and light of our
    being, and to you who seek to bring out the force of your light and love
    to help our beloved planet, we wish to communicate our upholding and our
    gratitude.

    Now we are linking with you.  Please uplift Earth in the joy, in the
    laughter and in the love of the feast of this great celebration.  We
    recognize that you are still within the outworking of this great event
    while to us it is already accomplished, but we wish to link in shared
    vision.  We envy you, if you can call it that, for you have been close,
    closer than we, to Earth; you will always carry part of Her with you.
    We who are the handmaidens of this Being must someday see you go forth.
    You will be our children to creation, for you have entered the deep
    mystery of creation and have met the test.  There are no words to
    describe the glory of this as we see it; therefore we join with you 
    in wordless song, endless praise.

    Thank you for listening."



CF

    Thank you Carole, that was beautiful.  I wonder if thats the work
    that the harmonic convergence in August is supposed to begin?
         Mary

    
    
    Hi Mary,
    
    Things are beginning to get very interesting, aren't they?  All
    of these things seem to be pointing to something happening, though
    we probably won't feel anything really major all at once.  There
    is quite a long article in the June/July issue of Earth Star -
    Whole Life New England.  I'm going to make copies, so if anyone
    wants one, just send me mail at AKOV68::FRETTS.  This articles
    defines the happenings occurring over the next 25 years, beginning
    at dawn on August 16, 1987.  There will be a 9-day period beginning
    at the same time in which the energies for the new cycle will be
    released.  It also gives the following sources for more info:
    
            Harmonic Convergence
            P.O. Box 6111
            Boulder, CO   80303
    
            Dance Awake the Dream
            International Sacred Sites Festival
            P. O. Box 1153
            Eagle, Idaho   83616
    
            The Mayan Factor
            by Jose Arguilles
            $12.95
            Bear and Company
            P. O. Drawer 2860
            Santa Fe, NM  87504-2860
    
            Ancient Mexican Prophey for the New Age
            by Eugene Johnson
            a manuscript/$8
            878 Hollandale
            Dallas, Texas   75234
    
    Carole
    

    There is a lecture at Joya's Book Shop tonight by Steve McFadden
    (editor of Earth Star) on The Harmonic Convergence.  It begins at
    7:30.

    Can you tell us where Joya's Book Shop is?
    
    Thanks,
    Sheila
    

    Its on Main Street in Fitchburg.  Across from the Post Office. 
    Its a very small, little place and is near the corner.

	A book I am reading (by psychic channeller Page Bryant) suggests 
that the planet is to become conscious during the next several years.
I find this to be an intriguing possibility...    This goes far beyond the
idea of the "Gaia" theory proposed by James Lovelock.   She says the
planet will be initiated into a new level of mental consciousness during
the next few years.

	She has been sleeping and dreaming in unconsciousness, but
now She will begin to listen to us speaking, and will begin to
interact consciously with us.   When the owl looks at you, it will
be Her looking through those eyes.   When the mice overhear us
speaking, it is She who will be listening.    Well, it always has
been Her, but now it will become *obvious*!

	Perhaps what has been called the "collective unconscious" was
our interaction with the dreams in Her mind.   Perhaps Bigfoot, Nessie
(of Loch Ness) or UFO's are Her dreams, dreams which can materialize as
collective hallucinations.    The messages She sends us have been
incoherent because of her unconsciousness, but now She will awaken and
begin to send us clear and unequivocal messages;

The Whole world could change suddenly;

	"News Flash!!"

	"CIA headquarters is swallowed by the ground.  'It was like a
big mouth opening and closing.'  Witness says."
	"Meese is driven into the Atlantic ocean by 14,000 pigeons.
Photos show 1500 justice department empoyees applauding."
	"Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant vanishes.   'The entire
canyon is gone!' observers report.
	"Forty-two missile silos vanish without a trace."
	"Millions of insects are attacking and eating the Pentagon
building.   'It's almost gone!' General says."
	"The president of the xxx Chemical corporation, who has been
under indictment for evasion of EPA restrictions, this evening returned
home to find his house buried under an estimated 50,000 tons of bird
feces."
	"Zoo animals are mysteriously released when walls collapse."

								Alan.

    Re: .12
    
    Sounds like the supermarket Tabloids are going to have a field day.
    ;-)
    
    Dave

	re: .12

	In the book 'Supernature' by Lyall Watson, he presupposes the
	same thing.  He talks about the magic number 10,000 million
	(10 raised to the 43rd) and that the human brain, during
	development, reaches approx. this many cells then never creates	
	any more and that this the point that we become conscious. 
 	He then says that, according to current population trends, the
	worlds population will reach this number in the next century	
	at which point the world will become conscious (ie, we're the
	cells of it's brain and we're in the final development stages).
        BTW, he suggests that the sophisticated computer networks around
	the globe are part of the earth's brain (I guess that what the
	ether in ethernet stands for :-) )
		
	Terry.

    RE: .12
    
    > "Meese is driven into the Atlantic ocean by 14,000 pigeons." <
    
    Hahahahahaha!
    
    RE: .14
    
    The problem with that hypothesis is that it is ludicrously
    species-centered. The amount of gray matter on this planet already
    exceeds the "magic number," being spread out among all animals.
    Man is just another animal; this planet does not belong to us, nor
    does it turn by our volition.  Nature sees no difference between
    a man and a wombat; both make excellent fertilizer.
    
    John M.

    Re .15 (John):
    
    > ........................... Nature sees no difference between
    >a man and a wombat; both make excellent fertilizer.
    
    Ah, but wombat guano is probably more difficult to come across than
    the human equivalent (from whence cometh Night Soil) .
    
    Wombats, of course, are vegetarians.   They're act ually rather
    cute, if nocturnal.  My wife saw one on a television commercial
    for Australia (a tourism spot) and went, "Awwww," just like she
    would for a puppy or kitten.
    
    Nature certainly sees _some_ difference between humans and wombats;
    that's why they can't crossbreed.
    
    That's not knocking wombats, by the way.  
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    P.S.:  On the subject --
    
    One makes a mistake when considering "earth consciousness" and all
    that might mean.  In my body _at this very moment_ are uncounted
    millions of individual cells, each of which is living its own life.
    A white blood cell, for instance, is very like an amoeba.  That
    _in its life_ it is doing something for the massive collection of
    cells that comprise me doesn't for a moment mean that it doesn't
    have its own independent life.
    
    Therefore, an "earth consciopusness" might already exist.  But we
    would be no more aware of it than that white blood cell is aware
    of _my_ consciousness.
    
    Wrong scale ...
    
    S.K.
    
    P.P.S:  And who says that the earth consciousness doesn't manifest
    itself at a different time rate?  The whole human history is a fleeting
    moment in the age of the planet.

    Exactly Steve. In the series on PBS by Joseph Campbell,
    _The_Power_of_Myth_, Joseph intimates that then next great mythology
    will be something akin to the Gaia Hypothosis. That being that the
    planet is an evolving organism. 
    
    I would like to reiterate here that man is a natural part of nature,
    and, regardless of what man thinks about itself, it will continue
    to be so.                                       
    
    So when the owl looks out at me, Gaia, the Goddess, will be looking
    right back.  And I think that's happening right now.
    
    Still there may be some kind of leap in the next decade. It'll be
    quite exciting.

    
    Mikie,
    
    Which book written by Joseph Campbell would be the best to read
    first (then second, then third.....).  
    
    Thanks,
    
    Cindy
    

    Try _Primitive_Mythology_...
    

    10,000 million is 10 to the 13th, not 10 to the 43rd.
    
    							Ann B.

    10 to the 13th = approximately *2* to the 43rd.  (more accurately
    2 to the 43.185065 according to my calculator).
    
    				Topher

	re: .20, .21

	Right Topher.  My mistake, the number is 2 to the 43rd...

	Terry.