Conference hydra::dejavu

    Hmm .. this topic almost sounds like a candidate for the RELIGION
    file.
    
    On reviving a body without a soul -- that's what some forms of zombie
    are supposed to be.  The implications are intriguing.  Also, that
    might make a body available for Something Else to inhabit.  The
    implications of _that_ are even more interesting.
    
    I would assume that if someone was willingly preserved cryogenically,
    the soul would be aware of it and could elect to Stay Behind.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    	If someone is put into suspended animation while still alive,
    then the "soul" should not go anywhere - it will be as if they were
    asleep.
    
    	Larry
    

    I don't see the appeal in being frozen...I guess it depends on
    your beliefs.  Imagine being frozen, and being in suspended
    animation, while all of your friends and family die off, while
    the whole world changes, and then you are revived by an army
    of mutant ants that have become intelligent and want to use
    you as a slave.  (Okay, so I've seen too many bad sci-fi movies...)

    Seriously, though...there would be no telling what kind of world
    you would be brought back into.  All of your knowledge could be
    useless as far as dealing with the every day world of our future.
    At best, you might be considered a Historian.  Big deal. ;^)  And
    although you might be revived because a cure had been found for
    your illness, what if your immune system was totally inadequate
    to deal with all of the other subtle environmental changes that 
    had taken place over many years of natural evolution?

    Jerri

    
    
    Hmmm... How can you be in suspended animation if you are clinically
    and brain. I can understand that all tissue is intact but there
    is no brain wave activity. From what I'm told, no brain wave activity
    equals no life.
    
    I can see that someone could will themself in preparation but what
    about the dying cancer patient who has a will to live yet the body
    gives up on them?
    
    
    Jim LaTouche :-)

    re.4  But how do we know there's no brain activity?
    
    I agree that it would be strange to wake up many years later,
    with no knowledge of current happenings.  I think when this can
    be used effectively for humans, they'd have to make that decision.
    (Anyone read 'THE DEAD ZONE' by Stephen King- similiar circumstances)
    
    Maybe they could use persons with little hope, like prisoners on
    death row...  Course they might be sorry when they're revived. ;-)
    
    Perhaps something similar could be used for space travel...
    
    Theresa.

RE: .4
    
    Currently the *legal* definition of death in many states includes
    or is based on the concept of the cessation of brain activity. 
    The first corpse-sicles (sorry, blame Larry Niven) would certainly
    have legal obstacles to overcome on this point.
    
    Clearly, if this became a reality the "practical" definition of
    brain death would become outdated -- it would simply be inapplicable
    to this case.
    
    At the present -- freezing a living person, even one minutes from
    clinical (i.e., brain) death is murder and is *definitely* illegal.
    All current, known corpse-sicles were clinically dead when frozen.
    Revival would thus include:
    
    	1) Defrosting
    
    	2) Curing what killed you
    
    	3) Curing the damage done by the freezing -- probably orders
    	   of magnititude more damage than 2.  It is going to be a *long*
    	   time before this can be done.  Virtually every cell in the
    	   frozen persons body is ruptured or otherwise badly damaged.
    
    	4) Resusitation.
    
    Because of 3, I doubt if anyone frozen -- before or after death
    -- using current freezing technology will ever be successfully revived.
    
    				Topher
    

    Wish I could remember all the details, but there was recently, like
    within the last couple of weeks, a dog that was completely frozen
    and then revived totaly intact. It was the first such success if
    memory serves. Previous animals were damaged in one manner or another
    upon defrosting. This dog was just as active and alert as before
    freezing.
    
    
    Steve

    I'm looking forward to seeing the details.  I suspect rather strongly
    that they did some special things when freezing the dog -- things
    not done for the current corpse-sicles.  I did not mean to imply
    that it would not someday (even soon) be practical to do reversable
    freezing, only that we do not *yet* have that technology.
    
    					Topher

    I'm a tad skeptical of the dog-sicle.  I saw the report and they
    had the guy who did it on the Today show last week.
    
    They froze the dog for 15 minutes.
    
    Humans have survived 20+ minutes under water and have been revived.
    
    However, in all due fairness, the dog is in no need of extensive
    rehabilitation like drowning victims are.

    re "dogsicle":
    
    I saw the dog, yesterday, on the Donahue show (I was home).  It
    seemed all right, though it seemed to sleep a lot.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    P.S.:  Looked like a beagle.   

    Did they dose the dog with some kind of nontoxic antifreeze, to
    keep it from busting its cells while chilled, or what?
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    Re .11:
    
    Well, as I recall, they emptied the dog of blood, putting in some chilled
    sort of substitute Oxygen-exchanging liquid medium.  Then (I picked
    this up with half an ear; I'd other things doing) if I recall right,
    they crash-froze the animal, after which they revived him (he is
    a male beagle or beagloid).  
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Re .10
    
    Yes, it was (is) a beagle that was "chilled".  I think his name
    was Milton.  He appeared healthy.
    
    I was on vacation Tuesday and was able to catch most of the Donahue
    show as well.  I found it facinating, but I'm sceptical of its success.
    Milton (or whatever his name is) was not really frozen.  He was
    "chilled" down to something like 32 degrees cent. and the people
    who are being frozen are being brought down to something like absolute
    zero.  (Sorry I cannot provide more accurate details)
    
    Anyway, my understanding was that the dog, unlike the people who
    are being frozen, was also not dead to begin with (although he did 
    suffer cardiac arrest while being revived).  
    
    Currently, as mentioned in an earlier note, people who are being
    frozen must be dead.  To freeze them prior to death constitutes
    murder.  Average cost to the "consumer" who'd like to be frozen
    for the future is 180K.  I think the primary hope at the moment
    is to be able to freeze organs more so than bodies.  These donated
    organs can be "thawed" for transplants, etc.  
    
    Ann

    Re: .10
    
    Can this "Chilling Technique" be extended to cure acute sleeplessness?
    

    Re .14:
    
    About as well as a general anesthetic can.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

i think i can answer a few question concerning freezing and some problem
    tech problem that i think have not been addressed.
    1. there was a problem of water in the cells expanding when frozen
    and rupturing the cells. i think this was solved by pressurizing
    the body at a certain point of the process for some reason the water
    did not behave the same under extreme pressure.
    2. one of the biggest problem i think was damage to the body right
    after death, you have to be quick with the freezing process.
    also one important tech problem that needed to be addressed was
    backround radiation. if you got frozen for say a 1000 years
    that's a 1000 years of backround radiation slowly tearing you up
    on the molecular level...talk about freezer burn ;')
    mind you this info is at least 10 years old there could be alot
    more research gone on since. also there has been some recent
    discussion of a technique called nanotechnology where in a few
    years we will have the ability to design machines that are as large
    as cells the idea being you could have these machines in your
    body repairing you on the inside, such machines could do the same
    repair work on a frozen body thus taking care of the burn problem.
    still leaves the problem of reviving the body after the repair
    work was done.

    I've heard of a process wherin dimethyl-sulfoxide was used as an agent
    to prevent the crystalization of water.  The substance vectors in
    through the skin and perminates the entire body, making freezing
    possible.