| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 338.1 | pointer | RAINBO::HARDY | | Thu Mar 19 1987 20:16 | 7 |
| Jaqcue Valle's MESSENGERS OF DECEPTION mentions Urantia.
The texts of this group are said to have been dictated by a
nonterrestrial source, and contain complex and confusing
descriptions of alien cosmologies.
Pat
|
| 338.2 | Very hard to swallow | DONNER::TIMPSON | Religion! Just say no. | Mon Mar 23 1987 12:29 | 9 |
| I started reading the Urantia book about 9 or 10 years ago. I got
about 300 pages into the book when I realized I was reading BULL.
It was trying to tell be that God exists at a specific place and
that it takes 100 years for gods messengers to get from him to
us. I found most of what I read very hard to swallow. Urantia
is what the spirituals/extraterrestrials call Earth.
Steve
|
| 338.3 | brain glue for slow thinkers | WORM::ACKLEY | alan the plasmoid | Tue Mar 24 1987 16:06 | 13 |
| The Urantia book was supposedly written by a Taxi driver from
chicago, in the early part of this century (in the 1920's ?).
It is rather typical of the type of text generated by using
"automatic writing". Lots of current cults are using this material,
or very similar material.
This book contains many attacks on free will, and if you swallow
it, can be very dangerous material. A careful reading will expose
many inconsitencies and absurdities.
I am told that the "osaphe bible" is quite similar.
Alan Ackley
|
| 338.4 | Believing in things you can't understand... | COLORS::HARDY | | Tue Mar 24 1987 17:03 | 13 |
| These two testimonials (.2 and .3) seem to mesh well with Jacque
Vallee's assessment of the book -- i.e., that the material appeared
to decorticate unwary believers by leading the mind into so many
spins it finally fell over in a hypnotic daze. He felt that some
UFO contactee cult leaders were honest and had a vision -- not their
vision, but somebody else's -- while others struck him as creeps.
So, having not read it, I'd guess that this is just like anything
else: listen to what the mysterious stranger tells you, if it seems
useful, but beware of funny business.
Pat
|
| 338.5 | Who_Knows? | MPGS::SANTELLA | | Sat Mar 28 1987 15:19 | 76 |
| -< A Look at the U Book >-
I've read the Urantia Book several times in the last 12 years,
and continue to read it occasionally. I am no more extreme about
it's validity than any other path, religion, or philosophy that
I have encountered. I can only believe in things and ideas that
I've experienced. "Blind Faith" seems to be a mind poison to many
people.
The Urantia Book purports to be no less than a gospel from
"the other" intelligient beings in our universe. It's a 2097-page
answer to the overwhelming question: Who are we and where do we
come from? For starters, our planet is called Urantia. It's one
of many similar planets that comprise the local universe of Nebadon.
An exciting bit of information, eh? You, me, the weirdo next door--
we're all Urantians. It is not a religion, nor a philosophy, but
rather a technical manual, so to speak, of what IS.
There have been many events of religious revelation given to us,
but only five of epochal significance. The Dalamatian teachings
(such as the Greek mythology we had to read in high school), The
Edenic teachings (Adam & Eve were higher order beings), The Melchizedek
teachings (the high priest mentioned in the Old Testament), The
teachings of Jesus (he was and is the creator and Chief Executive
Officer of this part of the universe), and finally The Urantia Book
teachings.
The book is split into four sections as follows:
1. The Central and Superuniverses
2. The Local Universe
3. The History of Urantia
4. The Life and Teachings of Jesus
At the Urantia Foundation in Chicago, where the book is published,
members of the Society are incredibly tight-lipped. They profess
indifference to the book's origins. They will give you courteous,
but brief answers to your questions, and after some badgering, give
you the name and address of local chapters in your area. The local
chapters are made up of a few (5 or 6) members who get together
usually once a week or so, to read or discuss the Book. They don't
try to sell you anything--not even the book. Something's definately
wrong here!
A friend and I (who had read the book independently) did visit
a small group in Worcester, and also a larger gathering in Conn-
eticut. For the most part, they were very warm interesting people.
Only a couple of extremists.
From the information I've gotten, the Book is not a product of
automatic writing, etc., but rather dictated by the "higher beings"
themselves to a group of about 15 individuals between the years 1934
to 1936. These individuals include some rather well known psychol-
ogists, doctors, and businessmen.
It's tempting to dismiss the whole thing as nonsense, of course.
But nonsense is rarely so well-written, or so reasonable. And seldom
is it so interesting. You really have to see this book to believe
it. Taking pieces of the book out of context as the previous repliers
to this note did, is not fair to this book--or for that matter to
any other book ever written. I have never found any contradictions
of any kind in the U Book, and futhermore, there are facts contained
in it that WERE NOT KNOWN at the time it was written. Either the
Urantia Book is real or it's the best damn science fiction I have ever
read, and deserves to be on the best seller list!
You can order the Book through the Urantia Foundation ($32.00)
or a group can usually get them for about $24.00, or you can wait
a few months as they have been talking about reducing the price
to around $15.00. Beyond that, I have an extra copy that someone
could borrow, or the Worcester Library has one--although they don't
let you take it out because they tend to get stolen too often.
I hope this reply answers some of your questions. I also hope
that ya'll don't think I'm some form of vegetable.
Steve
|
| 338.6 | Please say more. | PBSVAX::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Sat Mar 28 1987 21:16 | 24 |
| RE: .5
Don't worry Steve, some of us may disagree with your evaluation
but anyone who thinks that you are "some form of vegetable" is reading
the wrong conference (although I don't know of any which would answer
the question "How do I distinguish differences of opinion from
differences in biological 'kingdoms'?" :-)
Can you give us examples of things which were not know when the
book was first published but which appears in it? Could they
reasonably be infered at the time? Are these clear or open to
interpretation? Is there a way to be reasonably certain that there
aren't any number of similar items which are now known to be false?
What unambiguous statements are made the truth of which are likely
to become known in the near future?
Although I am skeptical, I mean this in the true sense of the word
rather than as a pretty word for witch-hunter. I believe firmly
that there are sources of information available to us which are
not normally acknowledged, and I am willing, even anxious, to be
convinced that this book is wholly or in part the product of these
sources.
Topher
|
| 338.7 | Urantia Revelation | MPGS::BOYAN | | Mon Mar 30 1987 15:19 | 56 |
| Good-Day everyone. I wish to make a statement concerning the
present discussion of the Urantia Book.
I have been an avid reader of the U Book since 1970. I desire
not to stand on a soapbox and expound it's truth as though I were
selling snakeoil and elixer. In fact, I am downright shy of telling
others what I have come to know of, for fear of giving the wrong
impression of it or myself. These times are indeed troubled on
the subjects of faith and God, and I have little desire to plunge
into that morass.
As to the subject of Free Will, I do not find the book confusing.
In fact, it only underscores what I have come to believe all along;
Free Will is the greatest gift of God to Man. It separates us from
the animals and gives us eyes to seek a path to God. Forgive me
if I sound as if I am preaching, I am not.
As to the matter of the first three-hundred pages being
confusing--they certainly are to the uninitiated. I advise all
first time readers to begin at the third part of the book.
Please, I wish not to foist this thing off as Gospel to anyone.
One must not take oneself or one's beliefs *TOO* seriously. If
one wishes, just pretend it is a novel, fiction to entertain and
enthrall. Do not judge it or others that study it. I only hope
that you would enjoy it's story.
Let me also give you the examples of things that were not known
or accepted as fact at the time the book was written as follows:
1. Continental Drift-accepted as fact in early 1970's.
2. Multiple and long enduring Ice Ages-accepted as fact in
early 1970's.
3. Atomic Cohesion & Sub-Atomic Material-currently being revealed
by present nuclear research.
4. Star Birth & Formation of Solar System-constantly being
revealed by new technologies and space exploration (please
note current events on Halley's Comet, and recent Nova).
5. Composition, Structuring, and other properties of our
Sun-revealed by Skylab and subsequent observations in space
and with new technologies.
These are but a few examples open to your study.
Again, I wish not to sway anyone's opinions or beliefs-
materially, or spiritually-nor will I be swayed. Just use your
own eyes and keep an open mind.
Ron
|
| 338.8 | ET dictate book! | RAINBO::HARDY | | Mon Mar 30 1987 15:39 | 17 |
| Re .5
I'm not accusing anybody of being a plant. ;^)
The occult is strewn with documents dictated by beings variously
described as angels, demons, extraterrestrials, and whatnot.
There is much controversy regarding the origin of these documents.
Nevertheless, some of them have had great impact on the recipients.
It's very likely that interpreting a technical exposition as
a source of spiritual truths leads to trouble.
In any case, you have provided the most valuable response -- how
to get to the book itself.
Pat
|
| 338.9 | RE 338.7 | EDEN::KLAES | Lasers in the jungle. | Mon Mar 30 1987 16:15 | 12 |
| All the examples you presented were considered - at least in
THEORY - as fat back as the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries.
I find it quite conceivable that those who wrote Urantia could
have taken these ideas and presented them as fact, hoping for the
best, and eliminating the wrong ideas in later editions. More proof
is needed, such as ideas which were not even possible to theorize
until, say, the last decade or so, and that these concepts were
presented in the earliest editions of this work.
Larry
|
| 338.10 | Great! But more details please. | PBSVAX::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Mon Mar 30 1987 16:40 | 12 |
| RE: .7
This list is a good start, but we need more details to make any
kind of judgement. Just how specific were the statements which
made these assertions. A statement such as "the continents, driven
by the currents stirred by the great heat below move hither and
yon upon the surface -- now coliding -- now drawing away; leaving
their striped tracks of magnetism upon the sea floor" would be most
impressive; while a statement like "The earth shakes as its children
crawl upon her belly" would be considerably less so.
Topher
|
| 338.11 | Look for yourself | MPGS::BOYAN | | Mon Mar 30 1987 18:59 | 6 |
| These detailed examples you request are available,but,are far too
lenghty and numerous to give here. Again,the information and cost
on the book has already been offered up to you.
Ron
|
| 338.12 | Some Stuff | MPGS::SANTELLA | | Mon Mar 30 1987 19:02 | 74 |
|
I must echo the concern resulting in the statments made
by Ron in the .7 reply. Specific text is necessary for anyone to
correctly evaluate the validity of these statements. They are pretty
specific though.
I believe that there is a group of U book readers in
Colorado that want to create an "electronic" version (These are
the same people that have put together a Concordance to the book).
They're having a problem with this at the moment because the Urantia
Foundation will not give them permission to use the copyright
(Evidently, the "higher beings" that wrote the book gave specific
instructions for it's dissemination, and a CRT version might not
fit into "God's Will"). What's a mortal to do? If I ever get a
copy, it would be very useful--especially in situations like this.
I've typed out a couple of things from the book, and although
they do not cover the scientific aspects of "things that were not
known at the time", I thought you might want to read one anyway.
When I get time, I'll type in some of the science stuff.
Steve
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The uncertainties of life and the vicissitudes of existence
do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal
sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset
by certain inevitabilities. Consider the following:
1. Is courage (strength of character) desirable? Then must
man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling
with hardships and reacting to disappointments.
2. Is altruism (service of one's fellows) desirable? Then
must life experience provide for encountering situations of
social inequality.
3. Is hope (the grandeur of trust) desirable? Then human
existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities
and recurrent uncertainties.
4. Is faith (the supreme assertion of human thought)
desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that
troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can
believe.
5. Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever
it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where
error is present and falsehood always possible.
6. Is idealism (the approaching concept of the divine)
desirable? Then must man struggle in an environment of
relative goodness and beauty, surroundings stimulative of
the irrepressible reach for better things.
7. Is loyalty (devotion to highest duty) desirable? Then
must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and
desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the
implied danger of default.
8. Is unselfishness (the spirit of self-forgetfullness)
desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the
incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition
and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life
if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay
saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil
to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.
9. Is pleasure (the satisfaction of happiness) desirable?
Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain
and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present
experiential possibilities.
|
| 338.13 | The Faith of Jesus | MPGS::SANTELLA | Rocks are Alive | Fri Sep 04 1987 19:12 | 57 |
| Here are some excerpts from the Urantia Book.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Supremacy of Religion
"Personal, spiritual religious experience is an efficient solvent
for most mortal difficulties; it is a sorter, evaluator, and adjuster
of all human problems. Religion does not remove or destroy human
troubles, but it does dissolve, absorb, illuminate, and transcend
them. True religion unifies the personality for effective adjustment
to all mortal requirements. Religious faith-the positive leading of
the indwelling divine presence-unfailingly enables the God-knowing
man to bridge that gulf. Existing between the intellectual logic
which recognizes the Universal First Cause as "it" and those positive
affirmations of the soul whichever this First Cause is HE, the
heavenly Father of Jesus' gospel, the personal God of human salvation.
There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea,
and relation. The religious consciousness identifies these realities
as science, philosophy, and truth. Philosophy would be inclined to
view these activities as reason, wisdom, and faith-physical reality,
intellectual reality, and spiritual reality. We are in the habit of
designating these realities as thing, meaning, and value.
The progressive comprehension of reality is the equivalent of
approaching God. The finding of God, the consciousness of identity
with reality, is the equivalent of the experiencing of self
completion-self entirety, self totality. The experiencing of total
reality is the full realization of God, the finality of the God-
knowing experience.
The full summation of human life is the knowledge that man is
educated by fact, ennobled by wisdom, and saved-justified by religious
faith.
Physical certainty consists in the logic of science; moral
certainty, in the wisdom of philosophy; spiritual certainty in the
truth of genuine religious experience.
The mind of man can attain high levels of spiritual insight and
corresponding spheres of divinity of values because it is not wholly
material. There is a spirit nucleus in the mind of man-the Adjuster of
divine presence. There are three separate evidences of this spirit
indwelling of the human mind:
1. Humanitarian fellowship-love. The purely animal mind may be
gregarious for self-protection, but only the spirit-indwelt intellect
is unselfishly altruistic and unconditionally loving.
2. Interpretation of the universe-wisdom. Only the spirit-
indwelt mind can comprehend that the universe is friendly to the
individual.
3. Spiritual evaluation of life-worship. Only the spirit-indwelt
man can realize the divine presence and seek to attain a fuller
experience in and with this foretaste of divinity."
|
| 338.14 | Teachings in Rome | MPGS::SANTELLA | Music without Sound | Fri Sep 04 1987 19:36 | 58 |
| Discourse on Reality
Personality is that cosmic endowment, that phase of universal
reality, which can coexist with unlimited change and at the same time
retain its identity in the very presence of all such changes, and
forever afterward.
Life is an adaptation of the original cosmic causation to the
demands and possibilities of universe situations, and it comes into
being by the action of the Universal Mind and the activation of the
spirit spark of the God who is spirit. The meaning of life is its
adaptability; the value of life is its progressability-even to the
heights of God-consciousness.
Misadaptation of self-conscious life to the universe results in
cosmic disharmony. Final divergence of personality will from the trend
of the universes terminates in intellectual isolation, personality
segregation. Loss of the indwelling spirit pilot supervenes in
spiritual cessation of existence. Intelligent and progressing life
becomes then, in and of itself, an incontrovertible proof of the
existence of a purposeful universe expressing the will of a divine
Creator. And this life, in the aggregate, struggles toward higher
values, having for its final goal the Universal Father.
Only in degree does man possess mind above the animal level aside
from the higher and quasi-spiritual ministrations of intellect.
Therefore animals (not having worship and wisdom) cannot experience
superconsciousness, consciousness of consciousness. The animal mind
is only conscious of the objective universe.
Knowledge is the sphere of the material or fact-discerning mind.
Truth is the domain of the spiritually endowed intellect that is
conscious of knowing God. Knowledge is demonstrable; truth is
experienced. Knowledge is a possession of the mind; truth an
experience of the soul, the progressing self. Knowledge is a
function of the nonspiritual level; truth is a phase of the
mind-spirit level of the universes. The eye of the material mind
perceives a world of factual knowledge; the eye of the spiritualized
intellect discerns a world of true values. These two views,
synchronized and harmonized, reveal the world of reality, wherein
wisdom interprets the phenomena of the universe in terms of
progressive personal experience.
Error (evil) is the penalty of imperfection. The qualities of
imperfection or facts of misadaptation are disclosed on the material
level by critical observation and by scientific analysis; on the moral
level, by human experience. The presence of evil constitutes proof of
the inaccuracies of mind and the immaturity of the evolving self.
Evil is, therefore, also a measure of imperfection in universe
interpretation. The possibility of making mistakes is inherent in
the acquisition of wisdom, the scheme of progressing from the partial
and temporal to the complete and eternal, from the relative and
imperfect to the final and perfected. Error is the shadow of relative
incompleteness which must of necessity fall across man's ascending
universe path to Paradise perfection. Error (evil) is not an actual
universe quality; it is simply the observation of a relativity in the
relatedness of the imperfection of the incomplete finite to the
ascending levels of the Supreme and Ultimate.
|
| 338.15 | made a believer out of me... | NIMBUS::BACKUP | | Tue Sep 29 1987 23:04 | 21 |
| I was given a copy of the Urantia book as a wedding present some
years ago, and my first reaction was, "gee...that's nice". I then
put it on a shelf and ignored it for a year. When I finally got
around to reading it I found that the first 1/2 is very tough going,
and I would recommend, like a previous noter, that the new reader
begin with the second half.
The thing which impressed me about the Urantia book is the ring
of truth which permeates the book. There is a detailed description
of the history of the planet, and a very detailed chronology of
the life of Christ. The book also goes into a fairly length
discussion of the afterlife, and the various stages which we must
all pass through to achieve Paradise, which it asserts is a physical
entity located at the heart of the physical universe. After reading
this book, and a number of books discussing the "life after death"
phenomenon (experiences of persons who have been resuscitated from
clinical death), I'm a firm believer in the idea that we are just
at the beginning of an endless progression of increasingly spiritual
lives. While I'm enjoying this life very much, I'm rather looking forward
to the next one, thanks to this book.
|
| 338.16 | ditto | MPGS::BOYAN | | Wed Sep 30 1987 16:57 | 4 |
| re.15
Dear NIMBUS::BACKUP,
Get in touch with me, soon.
Yours, Ron
|
| 338.17 | To where no man has gone before | MPGS::BOYAN | | Fri Oct 02 1987 12:58 | 56 |
| KIRK: "Uhurha, open all hailing frequencies for contact with
NIMBUS."
UHURHA: "Yes Sir."
SPOCK: "Captain, deep space sensor scan reveals only scant ionic
traces of NIMBUS in this sector. I advise that we change
course and scan the adjacent sector where sensors indicate
that NIMBUS may have originated."
KIRK: "No, Spock, to quietly wait here in the shadows until NIMBUS
shows herself. I believe NIMBUS is using a cloaking device
to conceal her presence."
SPOCK: "(Thinks to himself, Shadows? In deep space?)." "Captain,
why do you refer to NIMBUS as she?"
KIRK: "Call it a hunch."
SPOCK: "Hunch...?"
KIRK: "Human intuition Spock."
SPOCK: "Indeed."
KIRK: "Engineering!"
SCOTT: "Aye Captain, Scott herrre."
KIRK: "Scotty, we need more power for sensors to find and penetrate
the NIMBUS cloaking device."
SCOTT: "But Captain, we gone sooo deeep inna spece that I dunna
think we can make it back, even with what powerrr we've
got."
KIRK: "We need it now Scotty!"
SCOTT: "Aye Captain. (Says to himself "My poorrr antimatterrr
drrrive").
KIRK: "Uhurha, open channels K and L for a message to NIMBUS."
UHURHA: "Captain, the Klingons have broken the code for those
frequencies..."
KIRK: "Do I need keep repeating myself?"
UHURHA: "No Sir, channel's open."
KIRK: "This is the USS Enterprise hailing NIMBUS::BACKUP - We come
in peace - there is no reason to hide - please respond."
UHURHA: "Captain, I believe there is something coming in on a lower
channel...., but I just can't make it out...."
|
| 338.18 | | FSLENG::JOLLIMORE | For the greatest good... | Fri Oct 02 1987 13:24 | 1 |
| <----cute
|
| 338.19 | thanks to whomever | CSCMA::PERRY | | Tue Dec 26 1989 19:12 | 13 |
| That WAS cute.
It seems this conversation took place a couple years ago. I bought
the book my self and have read only parts of it. It seems rather
intense to me. But thanks to reading this conference I am going
to begin once again. I guess I become disenchanted with alot of
this material - - I would prefer to read with an experienced group.
thanks....to whomever
joe p
|
| 338.20 | Swallowing this..... | CSCMA::PERRY | | Mon Jan 08 1990 14:39 | 12 |
| I have been reading the last part of the U book. If I remember
my initial reaction when I first read parts of the book...
it is a little much to swallow.
But really - is the bible validated just because it was written
that long ago??? The section on the ubook on Jesus Christ reads
like a novel...so that's how I am taking it...It'd be nice to really
know what the truth is about Jesus of Naz - - or the UBook for that
matter...
who really knows....
jp
|
| 338.21 | The Urantia Book - Alive and Well after 35 years | BELLSO::PERET | Mentor | Tue Mar 20 1990 01:43 | 70 |
| I've been reading thru the Urantia Book for, oh, about 17 years now.
I find the subtle similarities between the narratives of the Urantia
Book with the other legends of ancient civilizations fascinating.
If there ever was (or will be) an Encyclopedia Galactica - the Urantia
Book is it. Lately, well the last 15 years or so, I've been working up
a cross-reference between Urantia history and the aforementioned
legends. The results are most interesting - finally getting a "real"
view of the history of this planet, such that you can see where all the
current beliefs stem from.
The psychic correlations are particularly interesting. Now I'm finally
realizing how NORMAL the paranormal is (UFO's included). Much easier
to deal with now. :-)
RE .9 - Larry, sorry the reply is 3 years late, but I just discovered
this conference tonight:
> I find it quite conceivable that those who wrote Urantia could
> have taken these ideas and presented them as fact, hoping for the
> best, and eliminating the wrong ideas in later editions. More proof
> is needed, such as ideas which were not even possible to theorize
> until, say, the last decade or so, and that these concepts were
> presented in the earliest editions of this work.
The Urantia book was written in 1934, and published in 1955. There is
only ONE edition of the Urantia Book - the first printing of 1955 is
IDENTICAL (word for word) to the current publishing. Personally, I
have the 4th printing of 1973. The Urantia Foundation is very
persistant about keeping the contents unchanged. Rather difficult to
eliminate "wrong ideas" when there are no further editions to take them
out of. Now, more proof - how about things we haven't run into YET?
- Regarding gravity-tidal friction of the planets: (page 657)
"When the tidal frictions of the moon and the earth become equalized,
the earth will always turn the same hemisphere toward the moon, and the
day and month will be analogous--in length about forty-seven days. When
such stability of orbits is attained, tidal frictions will go into
reverse action, no longer driving the moon farther away from the earth
but gradually drawing the satellite toward the planet. And then, in
that far-distant future when the moon approaches to within about eleven
thousand miles of the earth, the gravity action of the latter will
cause the moon to disrupt, and this tidal-gravity explosion will
shatter the moon into small particles, which may assemble about the
world as rings of matter resembling those of Saturn or may be gradually
drawn into the earth as meteors."
- 13 planets in our system (asteroid belt was still a planet at the
time frame of this narrative - 4.5 Billion BC):
"The five inner and five outer planets soon formed in miniature from
the cooling and condensing nucleuses in the less massive and tapering
ends of the gigantic gravity bulge which Angona [another solar system
passing close by] had succeeded in detaching from the sun, while Saturn
and Jupiter were formed from the more massive and bulging central
portions." [ Mercury, Venus, Earth, Moon (considered "dual" planets),
Mars, Asteroid belt planet, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune ]
"... and while Angona was yet int he vicinity of the sun, three of the
major planets of the Angona system swung so near to the massive solar
system ancestor that its gravitational pull, augmented by that of the
sun, was sufficient to overbalance the gravity grasp of Angona and to
permanently detach these three tributaries of the celestial wanderer."
"The planets do not swing around the sun in the equatorial plane of
their solar mother, ... Rather, they travel in the plane of the Angona
solar extrusion, which existed at a considerable angle to the plane of
the sun's equator" [ Pluto, (theorized), (unknown) ]
Now, all we have to do is wait.
Bruce
|
| 338.22 | Interesting theory of solar system development | DSM::CRAIG | Nice computers don't go down :-) | Fri Sep 14 1990 02:11 | 17 |
| The interesting thing about the description of the origins of the solar
system (see .-1) is that it explains two facts which have not been
explained by the conventional theory of planet evolution:
1. The fact that the planets revolve around the sun at an angle to the
solar equator, which would not be expected if they were simply cast off
by centrifical force.
2. The fact that the gas giants (esp. Jupiter) give off more energy
than they receive from solar radiation. If the Urantia book is correct
then these planets actually contain material from the heart of the sun.
Back after all these years!
Bob Craig
aka NIMBUS::BACKUP in a prev. life
|
| 338.23 | Explained. | CADSYS::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Fri Sep 14 1990 15:20 | 43 |
| RE: .22 (Bob Craig)
Sorry Bob, although the explanation for these two facts are not obvious
from the conventional theories, they are thoroughly explained -- to the
extent that if this were *not* the case the theories would be
considered proven incorrect. (Of course, that the theories manage to
account for facts does not mean that they are true -- only that the
facts do not disprove the theories or force revision in them).
1. The original disk of material was not infinitely thin. Therefore
the "planetesimals" were not all in exactly the same plane. They
therefore "interacted" with each other (gravitationally and in
collisions) off-center creating a distribution of "latitudes".
Simulations of the process show good agreement with the general
distribution of the displacement of the planets from the "pure"
ecliptic.
2. There are three significant "internal" sources of heat in planets
and satelites. a) Gravitational compression -- as a planet is
compressed heat is generated. In effect the potential energy induced
by the gravitational field is converted to heat as the mass moves
inward. This is the major source of energy in the gas giants, and is
a measurable part of the Earth's energy budget. b) Tidal heating --
as tides caused by planets, satelites and the sun stretch and compress
the planetary/satelite heat is generated. This is the same effect as
heating up coat-hanger wire by repeatedly bending it. Some of the
satelites of the gas giants are kept quite "hot" (relative to their
"expected" temperature from solar input) by this mechanism. It has
little effect on the gas giants, as far as I remember. c) Radioactive
decay -- the energy from the decay of naturally occuring radioactive
substances mostly gets converted to heat. This is a major source of
non-solar heat energy for the Earth. It amounts to several degrees
C of our global average temperature -- about the same size as the
predicted greenhouse effect. Its the major contributor to things
getting hotter as you go deeper into the Earth, and why the center
is molten (all that rock is a very good insulator, and the heat is
trapped, only making its way out very slowly).
These sources give a pretty good estimate of the energy output of the
gas giants -- though there are arguments about why "so much" appears
as radio waves and why "so much" appears as infrared, etc.
Topher
|
| 338.24 | "Urantia found" | DNEAST::BLUM_ED | | Tue Oct 02 1990 19:10 | 24 |
|
Ahhh..the long searched for note on Urantia....having first been
exposed to Urantia in 1974 I have long wanted the background information
exposed in the early notes here.....I once tryed to contact the Foundation
and they were "Tight lipped" to say the least.....no reply. At the time
I learned of the book..and I beleive since...word of mouth has been the
sole "advertising medium" of the book.
I have to agree with the statements around the books apparent knowledge
of theory which was not widely accepted until recently....without the
qoutes there were several area's which I found very convincing..these
included...
Continental Drift
Dinosaur/Bird evolution
Spontaneous mutation vs long term evolution thru trial and error.
Lemur descendants from a common gene (LUCY theory)..
and others....
Thank you for the insight....
E
|
| 338.25 | Still Alive and Well | JUPITR::BOYAN | | Tue Oct 15 1991 08:43 | 12 |
|
I'm still around. Out of curiosity I look in here after four years
to find replies years apart. As with aka BACKUP::NIMBUS. Bob, you
gotta stop using subspace communications - takes too damn long. Ah
well, I always believed time was an illusion.
As a postscript to this topic: Four years ago I personally bought
two cases (12 books each) of Urantia and gave them out to those whom
expressed interest in the book or in unusual things such as this book.
Gave several out to individuals in this conference. Funny thing - I
never recieved feedback personally or heard any comment of the book in
this conference from those individuals. Very strange.
|
| 338.26 | | WILLEE::FRETTS | if u want to heal u have to *feel* | Tue Oct 15 1991 11:14 | 15 |
|
Hi Ron,
I received one of the books from you and Steve, and *did* thank
you both for it ;^)! I have read very little of the book since
then, so it sits on the bookshelf awaiting the time when it will
be appropriate for me to read it. That's the way I always approach
books and it never fails me.
Hoping all is well with you.
Carole
P.S. I'm still amazed that you and Steve bought all those books
and gave them away!
|
| 338.27 | Re.25 - been a *long* time! | CGVAX2::PAINTER | | Tue Oct 15 1991 18:59 | 7 |
|
Hi Ron,
Welcome back! It's been a while since I've opened my copy, however it
was within the last year. My experiences are the same as Carole's.
Cindy
|
| 338.28 | Bang head on Wall | JUPITR::BOYAN | | Wed Oct 16 1991 09:47 | 17 |
|
" And the moron of the week award goes to..."
Yes Carole, you did thank me and Steve. I looked nearly 3500
mail messages ago (someday I clean that up) to find yours and Cindy's
thank-you's. Moron indeed.....
Though I'm virtually unseen in notes now, I've noticed the two
of you. The both of you might browse through the U-Book alittle.
I believe it was you, Carole, that once raised a few questions on
Adam and Eve and what happens after one's death in another conference.
Take a look in the book in the section of The History of Urantia. Then
look into the chapters on the Mansion Worlds. I cannot quote the
chapters for alas, I've also given away my two books. Well, at least
I'm not a cheap moron!
Ron
|
| 338.29 | | WILLEE::FRETTS | if u want to heal u have to *feel* | Wed Oct 16 1991 11:04 | 10 |
|
It's nice to see you in notes again Ron! Thanks for the pointer
on the Adam and Eve, etc. material in Urantia - I'll have to take
a look at it.
From your node name, I gather you are in Shrewsbury. So am I! If
you ever want to stop by and say hello, I'm in SHR1-3, pole P2.
Take care,
Carole
|
| 338.30 | me too! | SFCPMO::CABANYA | | Wed Oct 16 1991 19:17 | 13 |
| Hi Ron,
I remember reading the info you sent me but it was so long ago I don't
remember much about it. I'm in the process of moving to another
location, in the process, I'm sure I'll find it and will re read
it. I'll try to remember to post thoughts, etc. in this notes file.
(Although it usually takes some time to recover from an internal
office move!)
Glad you're still around, with the current downsizing you never know!
Mary
|
| 338.31 | Urantia needs Technical Writers | WELLER::FANNIN | Chocolate is bliss | Sat Apr 10 1993 17:20 | 66 |
| Why I Both Like and Dislike the Urantia Book:
I like it because it kinda reads like science fiction.
I dislike it because it was obviously written by a bureaucrat. For
example, here's a definition of the Supreme Being:
pg 11
"The Supreme Being is not a direct creator, except that he is the
father of Majeston, but he is a synthetic co-ordinator of all
creature-Creator universe activities. The Supreme Being, now
actualizing in the evolutionary universes, is the Deity correlator and
synthesizer of time-space divinity, of triune Paradise Deity in
experiential association with the Supreme Creators of time and space."
The book is filled with stuff like this. Here's a sample section on
Technical Advisors:
pg 279
"4. Technical Advisers -- These legal and technical minds of the
spirit world were not created as such. From the early supernaphim and
omniaphim, one million of the most orderly minds were chosen by the
Infinite Spirit as the nucleus of this vast and versatile group. And
ever since that far-distant time, actual experience in the application
of the laws of perfection of the plans of evolutionary creation has
been required of all who aspire to become Technical Advisers.
The Technical Advisers are recruited from the ranks of the following
personality orders:
1. The Supernaphim.
2. The Seconaphim.
3. The Tertiaphim.
4. The Omniaphim.
5. The Seraphim.
6. Certain Types of Ascending Mortals.
7. Certain Types of Ascending Midwayers.
At the present time, not counting the mortals and midwayers who are all
of transient attachment, the number of Technical Advisers registered on
Uversa and operating in Orvonton is slightly in excess of sixty-one
trillion.
Technical Advisors frequently function as individuals but are organized
for service and maintain common headquarters on the spheres of
assignment in groups of seven. In each group at least five must be of
permanent status, while two may be of temporary association. Ascending
mortals and ascending midway creatures serve on these advisory
commissions while pursuing the Paradise ascent, but they do not enter
the regular courses of training for Technical Advisers, nor do they
ever become permanent members of the order."
--------
Uggh.
If the ascension path is this bureaucratic, I prefer to remain
unascended.
Ruth
|