Conference hydra::dejavu

    Hmmm, that's a new one on me.  I'm not a subscriber to any astrological
    or occult mags to date.  Want to send me a copy of the article?
    
    Marcia

    Re .0:
    
    Well, that's California. :-)
    
    Seriously, it'd be interesting to find out what their "old, improved"
    zodiac would consist of.  That is, whether it corresponded with
    any particular ancient zodiac.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    From the very brief example given in the base note, that of a "human"
    sign becoming an animal, I wonder if its basis is to make the "Circle
    of Animals" (which is the definition of Zodiac) completely animal?
    
    Marcia

    This sounds pretty interesting!  Any new or additional info?
    
    

I took this outta' _Magical_Blend_.  I have some major questions about it
concerning their (whoever they are) stand upon the history of Astrology
and Radical Femenism.  So I didn't enter the whole article. But just for
a taste here is some of it. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            THE CALIFORNIA ZODIAC

Aries--The Sheep;

The Roman patrairchy emphasised the role of the male in their society; the
idea of the ram for this season is a reflection of their sexual bais. Rams
are the males in the sheep family and ewes are the females.  The simple
warmth and the eager excitement of the sheep more clearly defines the qualities
of this season.

Taurus--The Ox;

Once again the choice of the bull for this season reveals the patriarchial
baises of the Roman Empire.  Bulls and cows comprise the ox family whose
gentile and enduring persistance enhances the magic of this season. Images
of the heard are very strong in this sign; The wild oxes and buffaloes love
to roam.

Gemini--The Wolf;

The abandonded orphans pictured in the Roman Zodiac were raised by a clever
wolf who more honestly deserves the attention during this season. Stories
of abused children are not befitting our modern civilization, but stories
about wolves and dogs can surely inspire the innocence and curiosity of
this sign.

Cancer--The Crab;

The crab is one animal from the ancient past that has survived intact. The
Romans didn't even dare mess with this sign.

Leo--The Snake;

The Roman Empire went to great lengths destroying the images of snakes which
filled the ancient temples and scriptures. In place of the royal and mysterious
snake, they put the lion--another lazy and violent image of maleness. It's
time to recliam the power of the snake instead of trying to destroy such
a magical animal.

Virgo--The Pig;

The benign Roman image of a temple virgin is anachronistic, but even worse
it is oppressive to women. To the Goddess Persephone who rulses this season,
the pig is the most sacred. Pigs are industrious, aggressive, and exposed
to much criticism.  Pigs express the essence of this sign.

Libra--The Leopard;

The cold mechanical mind of the Romans place the image of a balance beam
over the stars of Libra.  The only animal which epitomizes the balance and
poise of this season is the leopard.  With grace and power the leopard searches
in the dark.  Our housecats are decendants from the leopards.

Scorpio--The Scorpion;

The Romans left the sign of the scorpion alone with the exception of using
its claws to make Libra.  As members of the spider family, scorpions have
changed little in time.

Sagittarius--The Horse;

The Roman myth-figure Chiron (the Centaur pictured in this sign) was a
lacivious, pillaging soldier-god. Underneat the violent male imagery given
to this sign by the patriarchy is the georgus picture of the horse.  The
strength and vigilance of the horse speaks perfectly to the magisty of this
season.


  Mikie?

    Re .5:
    
    Thank you.  That's hilarious!
    
    The only question is, who could possibly imagine that it was
    meant as anything other than satire?
    
    	-Neil

    RE: .5 .6
    
    Yes.  That was fun.
    
    One point, however, is Leo.  Just about every civilization that has
    looked up into the sky has called that constellation a lion.
    
    Tom

    Reply to .6;
    
    Well I'm not so sure that the article was intended as satire.  It
    could be but you know how those people on the west coast think.
    They just might be serious! B^)
                            
      Mikie?

    No, even though we might react as if it's hilarious, I don't think
    the people who wrote it think it's satire either.  It kind of sounds
    like the people who have devised this system believe that the ancient
    Romans, in the their zeal to enforce a patriarchal culture, screwed
    up the zodiacal symbols, and it's up to them to set us straight,
    so that we don't use that bad (for bad, read "patriarchal") old
    Roman imagery anymore.  Altogether, even though most of the imagery
    is sound, it sounds (to me) like the underlying philosophy is
    "male-bashing".  I believe in balance and equality, so I don't find
    the "you did it to us, so now we'll do it right back" style of 
    'liberation' psychology at all viable.  I can understand and sympathise
    with how it evolves, but in the end I find it repulsive and defeating.
    
    Even given that, I find some of the symbols nice (like using the Ox 
    for the sign Taurus) but others a bit silly.  Leo, for instance, 
    could easily be thought of as a sign that embodies tremendous power
    in the female.  After all, the lion-esses are the ones who do most
    of the work in the pride.  The serpent, I agree, is a a much-maligned 
    symbol, but probably deserves to represent Scorpio, a sign that
    connotes occult knowledge and ancient wisdom, which have been
    associated with the serpent.  (For an interesting discussion of 
    Scorpio's association with the serpent, see Liz Greene's book
    _Relating_; it's in one of the later chapters that discusses the 
    impact of the precession of the equinoxes on relating principles 
    in general.)
    
    Mikie, did they keep the Goat intact for Capricorn and the
    Fish for Pisces?  And what did they do for Aquarius?  I find the
    effort to make the entire Zodiac animal interesting, but the air
    signs being "human" has always, for me, acknowledged that our intellect
    (air element) is what marks us as human.  I believe it did so to
    ancients of any culture, matriarchal or patriarchal.  So having 
    human symbols for the air signs has made sense to me.
    
    Marcia

RE: .9
    
    While it is true that the word "ox" can technically be used to refer
    to *any* member of the bovine family (male or female, domestic or
    wild) it is used more commonly to refer to a "castrated bull".
    
    They probably would have done better (if their full, including
    subconscious, intention were as stated) to rename it Auroch, which
    is the type of "wild bovine" which was familiar to, and revered
    by, the Babylonions.  It is therefore, probably, the original symbol.
    
    					Topher

    Reply to Marcia;
    
    Capricorn is termed the Whale; the Sea Goat,

    Aquarius is termed the Eagle; Water Bird,

    Pisces is termed the Shark; (Dum, Dum....Dum,Dum...), the objection
    here was the Roman sport of fighting fish, same as dog fighting
    today.
    

   The person to contact about this is:
                                             .          Dum, Dum...
	Robert Cole                         /-\  ---     Dum, Dum...
	P.O. Box 884561                    /   \          Dum, Dum...
	San Fran., Calif. 94188           /     \  ---
                                         /       \                   
                                        /         \  ---
_______________________________________/___________\___________________

    RE: .9  Scorpio and renaming constellations
    
    I fear that ideology is getting in the way of reality.  I don't
    know how many have seen the constellation "Scorpius" but it is one
    of those constellations that look like *something*.  It really *does*
    look like a scorpion, just as Leo looks like a lion, Virgo looks
    like a woman, Orion looks like a man, Taurus looks like the head
    of a bull, Cancer looks like a crab and Canis Major looks like a dog.
    
    I think that naming a constellation something that more closely
    fits what that region of the sky represents to you, rather than
    what it *looks* like would be folly; a fanciful attempt to impose
    your values on the cosmos.
    
    This is not an attack on Astrology.  I believe that life moves in
    cycles and that these cycles are mirrored by the movement of planets.
    But let's not get carried away with our own self importance.
    
    Tom