Conference hydra::dejavu

    I've had a feeling that something was going to happen too.
    Seems to be building up.  Don't know what the nine means though.
    Maybe we will find out soon.
    	mary

    According to traditions, nine can be both good and ill fortune.
     It often implies greatness followed by calamity.  The names of
    both Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy numerologically reduce to 9:
    both were considered above-average; both were assasinated.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Nine could also be called a number of culmination, symbolizing
    something that has come to full fruition.  The 9 cards of each Tarot
    suit carry shades of meaning that imply that fruition.
    
    Considering astrological aspects, dividing the 360 zodiacal circle
    by 9 yields a subtle, spiritual aspect called the Novile.  The novile
    occurs when planets are 40 degrees apart from each other.  I tend
    to study them in charts where the planets are arranged such that
    major aspects are missing; they seem to take on much more prominence
    that way.  Noviles divide the trine aspect into 3 segments (the
    trine is a 120 degree aspect).  The novile is difficult to interpret,
    but has overtones of spiritual consciousness that are a) natural
    to an individual, b) best discovered in a quiet, meditative frame
    of mind, c) can be used to develop one's spiritual growth.  Things
    that develop spiritual growth have a reputation for being traumatic
    so that one is forced to seek solace in subtler directions than
    the material world can offer.  However, this need not be so.  One
    can, instead, seek out the spiritual lessons one feels are necessary
    and benefit from them without the spur of crisis to goad one to
    action.
    
    One thing to try first:  examine the number 9 from a personal
    standpoint.  Was it a significant age for you?  Is your age now
    coming up on a multiple of 9?  Do any of those close to you have
    9 in the numerological reduction of their names, or were born in
    September (the 9th month) or on the 9th day of a month?  Is any
    aspect of your life reaching a state of fruition?  After all, when
    the fruit has fully ripened on the plant, it is time to distribute
    the wealth, so to speak.  (Many people I know who reach a
    culmination stage enjoy it so much that they are reluctant to progress
    to the next stage of new effort or releasing the fruits of the old;
    this can produce a lot of fear and tension for them.)
    
    And finally, I'm sure there are those who contribute to this file
    who can help you explore this further.  You might want to contact
    a few of them.
    
    Marcia

    	I look at such things as numerology this way:
    
    	We live in such a small place, Earth, in relation to the rest
    of the Cosmos - Earth's diameter is roughly 8,000 miles, while the
    Universe is approximately 13 billion light years across, and there
    are 6 trillion miles in one light year - and with such close proximity
    as that (not to mention our instant, global communication these
    days), that coincidences and similarities are bound to happen.
    
    	And society sets up so many "boundaries" already, that it makes
    the chances of similar events occuring even greater.  For example,
    humans made divided time into twelve months and 365 days.  So, with
    there being about 5 billion people on Earth, what are the chances
    of, say, at least two people in the building where you work going
    to have the same birthdays?  Very good.  And if you generalize it
    to one month, the chances increase, and so forth.
    
    	I know these are my opinions, and you can certainly subscribe
    to whatever concept you wish (I'm from the Voltaire School of Free
    Speech), but I do feel my idea has some basis for truth (heck, I
    got examples! :^)).
    
    	Larry
    

    A friend of mine suggested that I read my Tarot cards last night
    asking for wisdom and take note of card 9.
    The Devil came up.
    
    As to seeing what in my life has corollation of nine,  the only
    thing I can find is my daughter's birthday is in September.
    
    Stranger and stranger stuff.  
    
     

    re .6:
    
    You might want to remember that the original meaning of "November"
    is "ninth month."  July and August were added to take into account
    two of the Caesars (Julius and Augustus).  Therefore, the "nine"
    might connect to this month rather than September (original meaning
    "seventh month").
    
    On the Devil card; rightside up or inverted?  Also remember that
    the Devil in Tarot has multiple meanings.  (For that matter, it's
    Card 15; Card 9 is The Hermit.)  Numerologically, your name as in
    your personal signature resuces to 7; if your middle name reduces
    to 2, that might be interesting.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    The Devil card was right side not reversed.
    
    I am not sure what you meant regarding the actual month.
    Which do you mean? July or August?
    
    I don't know numerology at all.  My middle name is Elaine
    but I usually only put E. Verses spelling out my name.
    
    Can you explain a little more???
    
    

    One of the meanings of the Devil card that I learned in a Tarot
    class was that, considered on a psychological level, it can represent
    what Jung calls your Shadow.  These are facets of the self that
    have been deemed bad, and therefore suppressed.  My teacher believed
    that when the Devil came up in a reading that it was a time when
    one's own Shadow was available for your conscious contemplation,
    redress, and eventually, re-integration, so one could become truly
    a whole person.  Time for internal housecleaning, so to speak. 
    This sounds nice, but has a painful (and perhaps fear filled) side;
    in order to clean one has to go looking for dirt.  My own experience
    with such housecleaning is that I have been afraid to go looking
    because of there might be some there that I'd then have to deal
    with.  Not pleasant, but very necessary from time to time.  This
    could be your inner self's way of telling you that this is one such
    time.
    
    Regarding the 9th card in your reading:  if I remember the Celtic
    Cross layout correctly, the 9th card laid down represents one's
    hopes and fears about the outcome of the situation.  To have the
    Devil in this position might speak strongly to the fears I described
    in the paragraph above.  When doing readings for myself, I always
    read the card in this position very thoroughly.  It tells me a lot
    about myself.  (I don't know if you were using the Celtic Cross
    layout, so this might not be relevant.)
    
    Marcia

    Re .8:
    
    What I meant was that "november" orioginally translated from the
    Latin as "ninth month" nonwithstanding it was the 11th.  This means
    that there might _possibly_ be a November connection rather than
    a September one.  Doubtful, but not out of the question.
    
    Marcia explained about the Devil card.  Since I don't know the context
    odf the reading, I can't comment beyond what she said.
    
    In the middle name: if you _think_ of youyrself as "Vivian E. Sparrow,"
    your name numerologically reduces to 3 (1/3 of nine).  If you think
    of yourself as "Vivian Elaine Sparrow," your name reduces to 8,
    numerologically.  Neither is a 9, though the first is suggestive.
    
    I agree with Marcia: time for introspection.  
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    It is possible that what you experienced was either a real premonition
    or a psychic attack of some kind.  I would certainly not reject
    these possibilities out of hand.  There *is*, however, a conventional
    explanation for what you experienced, and I think that it is much
    more likely.
    
    What you describe is a pretty classic night-terror.  This seems
    to be a simple failure of the mechanisms for sleep and dreams in
    the brain.  Note 107.18 discusses night-terrors.  It suffers, though,
    in that it describes a particularly serious one.  Its a little bit
    like refering someone who is worried about some minor surgery to
    remove a wart to a description of an 8 hour long open heart surgery
    with severe complications.
    
    Night-terrors, as opposed to night-mares, occur durring non-REM
    sleep.  Dreams durring non-REM sleep tend to be simple single ideas
    or images or strange juxtapositions of a couple of ideas or images
    (I mean image in the broad sense to include words, smells, sensations,
    etc.).  Non-REM dreams seem to be just a general sorting through
    of ideas and memories.  A night-terror can fixate whatever dream
    you were having when it occured.  Your mind wants to attribute
    *something* as the cause and so gives great importance to what was
    going through your mind at the moment.  Its like being unable to
    even think about eating something which you happened to be eating
    when you got sick.
    
    Night-terrors are unusual for most adults but are much more likely
    when someone is undergoing stress (positive or negative).  Your
    taking a stress vitamin combination hints that you are undergoing
    stress in your waking life.
    
    Surveys of premonitions which seem veridical (i.e., which have been
    judged as having "come true") indicate that most such occur during
    sleep, and that most come at a time of night (e.g., 11:20) when
    non-REM sleep is most likely.  This then might be a premonition,
    either positive or negative, and the attempt to "push" it into
    consciousness might have triggered the night-terror.
    
    It is never wise to ignore what *may* be a warning, and I think
    that it is a good idea for you to continue to try to figure out
    what it might mean.  But keep in mind that it probably is *not*
    a warning -- so there is no reason to lose any sleep (so to speak)
    over it.
    
    				Topher

RE: .9
    
    Ultimately, the interpretation of any card in a tarot layout depends
    on the interactions of the reader and quearant.
    
    More traditional interpretations of the Devil card associate it
    with venality or enslavement.  Waite and others interpret it
    specifically as the weakness and inslavement which comes from
    ignorance.
    
    				Topher
    

RE: 239.4
    
    I learned a slightly different meaning for the number 9 -- one which
    I think you will find much more directly represented in the tarot
    cards.
    
    In this interpretation, 9 does not represent full fruition and
    culmination.  That is the meaning associated with 10.  9 represents
    the final *approach* to completion.  That stage of the life journey
    where you can say "the end of the tunnel is in sight" (to mix my
    metaphores a bit).  It is therefore quite positive unless the only
    outcome possible in the near term is defeat.  If Vivian is currently
    undergoing difficult life changes then "9" can be interpreted as
    encouragement -- she is over the hump and in the "home stretch".
    Things should get much easier very soon.
    
    				Topher
    

    
    
    To add a more mundane perspective to .1 and  Topher's comments
    in .11 re stress, I suggest that there may be a connection to your
    thoughts/experiences (such as a tv program/something read & forgotten)
    just before retiring which focused you on the number 9, combined with
    the possible stress situation you may be feeling.  The symptoms you 
    describe are classic adrenal stress symptoms.  When the body functions 
    under continuous stress for any length of time the adrenals get tired 
    from over production.  Not only is the body assaulted by excess
    adrenaline but the adrenals themselve become less alert/functional.  
    Espceially if one does not pay attention to diet and rest to
    replenshing the support system in order to handle the excess
    pressure.   Adrenal mis-function can cause acute anxiety, 
    sleeplessness, nightmares and add even more anxiety and stress to an 
    already overstressed system.
                               
    I recommend you at least cover this base and get something to support
    your adrenals.  Licorice root and health food store adrenal
    preparations work very well.  If it is your adrenals, one stick
    of licorice root will give immediate relief.  Capsules may take
    longer.  
    
    Other symptoms of adrenal mis-function are salt and sugar cravings.
    The adrenals produce cortiminerals (sp?) which affect the sodium/potassium
    balance in the body and can cause all sorts of unpleasant feelings
    - it can feel like every cell in your body is drained of energy-
    in this case potassium seems to relieve the problem, one or two
    bananas do quite nicely.  The adrenals also affect the pancreas
    which produces insulin.  Insulin is released into the body to balance
    the blood sugar metabolism (i'm sure others here can get more
    technical); when the adrenals become overworked they slow down and
    send weaker and slower signals to the pancreas (among other things
    the adrenals tell the pancreas when to stop producting insulin)
    - this results in an excess of insulin in the blood; more sugar
    is burned up than nec. causing an inbalance in blood sugar levels.
    Too little sugar (to keep things simple) produces a craving for
    sugar and bingo, you have a vicious cycle - sometimes leading to
    overweight and hypoglycemia.
                               
    In any event, you may want to check all this out for yourself. 
    I wouldn't discount it.  
    
    
    Cheers
    
    Lora
    

    I'm impressed with your reaction to the situation.   
    
    It seems like you kept your head and did what you had to do.
    
    "Not a sparrow falls, but the Father knows it."  That much you
    know.  It seems to me, however, that this one is about to take wing
    and fly.  You are more than you think you are.
    
    Good work.          
    
    Donald Reinke

    I wanted to say thanks for all the information I received
    from my request for assistance.  Since that night, things
    have been better.  I did some investigating of my dreams
    and used a dream dictionary and found that most of the 
    dreams I have had point to good things about to happen.
    I am on the watch.  I also will be shopping at the health
    food store this week.  Also, I quit taking the stress tabs,
    yes I have been overstressed of late.  Took up my oil paints
    again and that has helped tremendously, a creative outlet that
    has made me run out of wall space once again.  Before going to
    sleep each night, I say the Lord's prayer, thank him for all
    he has given me, and sleep like a baby.  
    
    vivian
    
    ps.  Nothing of any consequence has happened yet, but I am on
    the watch for good or ill.

    
    Thanks again.

     
     Maurice Richard.  The Rocket.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    Well, today is July 29, 1987 and I am reading this note (239.0)
    for the first time.  I immediately thought of something I learned
    this year.  I took a moment to count from Nov. 11, 1986 when you
    wrote the note, to August 1987.  That count is 9 months.
    
    August 16 & 17, 1987 is the time of transition from one age to another
    in the tradition of the Mayan Calendar.  There are supposed to be
    nine days before, and nine days after that date which are also
    inportant to this transition time.  This August 16th & 17th time
    is called the Harmonic Convergence.  Our Mother Earth will be leaving
    an energy beam she has been traversing for over five thousand years.
    By now 8/29/87 you may have heard all this and noticed your connection
    with the number 9.  The new age we will enter is call "The Age of
    Flowers" by some Native Elders here on Turtle Island.  This is the
    beginning of a turn by us and the coming generations to a balanced
    life way where Spirit will be our guide and the Earth can heal herself.
    Some call this (fearfully) a time of purification.  But to me this
    will be a Sacred Time.  Besides, the purification started a few
    years back as best I cal tell from what some Native Elders have
    said.
    
    Happy Harmonic Convergence and I hope that's the source of your
    number 9.
    
    Betty

	In November 1986, I wrote this note.  since then there 
	have been a few incidents that may clarify what was happening 
	and still happening.

	In that apartment, my neighbor consisted of a 32 year old 
	single mother, her 13 year old son, and her 8 year old daughter.  
	As time passed, and I had some conversations with her, I realized 
	that the woman sent very evil eminations.  Whenever I had to go 
	into her house, I could never get past the door, she would invite 
	me in but I could never sit down or walk around her apartment.  
	she told me about her familiy and this increased my discomfort.  
	here are some of the stories:  In writing this, I tried to give her
	a fake name, but I can't, her name is the only one that fits her, 
	so I won't use it.

	Her mother was cursed by a witch when all the kids were young. 
	the curse was that the mother would never know sanity, and her 
	children would never know happiness or health.  Her mother had 
	been since that time, literally determined to destroy her family.  
	The neighbor has been in and out of therapy, could not maintain 
	a job and had been on welfare for years, she had a brother who 
	died of aides(she said its because of the curse because he  was
	in no way exposed to it, according to the families), and many of 
	her brothers were also in therpy.  
	Her mother gave her a car, then took it away because she was 
	dating someone she didn't like, gave it back when she quit dating 
	him, took it back when she was given medications from her therpist 
	because mom didnt want her taking the medications, gave the car 
	back when she quit taking the meds, took the car back *again* when 
	she started dating another guy mom didn't like.  
	She told me about this, and I asked her why she didn't just get 
	the vw that was parked in her driveway fixed, so that her mother 
	would no longer have control over her with the other car?  This 
	had never occured to her.  She got the car fixed.  
	
	she had a boyfriend she had been dating for 9 years who was 
	extremely abusive. she told me that on one occasion, they 
	had been drinking and all of a sudden ???? he started 
	talking as if possessed.  He kept telling her he was a demon
	(can't remember the name) and proceeded to rape her. 
	Her daughter was a witness to this.  I asked her why she still 
	let him around the house and the kids, she said that the "LORD" 
	told her too.

	When ever she did anything, she said the "lord" told her too.  
	I asked her what this particular lords name was.  
	She just looked at me funny.

	Her daughter always was at my house, because the mom would 
	leave at all hours and the daughter had no where to go, she 
	didn't have a key to get in the house so instead of having 
	her sit in the street till her mother decided to come home, 
	I would bring her in.  The daughter would leave me notes 
	about how her mom beat her at night, or how her mothers 
	boyfriend hurt her.  At night when they were at home, my 
	daughter would come to my room and tell me that she could 
	hear the neighbors daughter crying.  This was not a once in 
	awhile occasion, this happened every night.  I asked the little 
	girl if there was something wrong, but she said no.  I asked 
	the mom if there was something I could do for the kid
	and she said no, she was just spoiled.  I told her about the
    	notes and asked if there was something I could do to help
    	She said no again.  She told me that she 
	was trying to get the kid to sleep in her own bed.  It seems 
	that the kid had *NEVER* slept by herself.  If she wasn't 
	sleeping with her mother(and whoever was with her) then when 
	she was at her grandmothers (which was quite often)
	she slept with her grandparents. 
	
	When she saw that I had tarot cards, she wanted me to read her, 
	I couldn't.  I couldn't even bring myself to even
	discuss the cards with her.  She always wanted to discuss demons 
	and her direct connect she had with her lord, but this would 
	almost make me throw up.  Even writing this has my head clogging up.

	After much agonizing and soul searching and praying and fear,
	I finally called social services. The final occurance was the 
	mother hadn't come home for two days, and I had found the daughter 
	sitting on the curb at 2 am because her brother wouldn't let her 
	in the house.  When they showed up the next day the mom hadn't 
	slept in 2 days, and did her very best to terrorize the social
	worker.  She kept telling the daughter that this was her fault,
	the social worker was here only because of what the daughter did
	(though she never specified what it was that the daughter did)
	The social worker ended up calling 2 squad cars to help get 
	her in for evaluation.  The next day she asked me if I had 
	turned her in, I just asked what makes you think I did?  
	she started ranting and raving about how she was a good mother, 
	and her mother must have done it because of who she was dating.  
	she could only talk about herself, how her mother was evil, 
	how much her mother hated me, and never once considered that
	she had done anything wrong.  She told me she had spent the last
	two days trying to help her abusive boyfriend as he popped in and
	out of possesion. 
	I started saying very rapid prayers for protection for myself 
	and daughter.  My God, I thought, what is this *thing* standing 
	in front of me, Please protect us......
	
	the present situation is, I moved away, across town.  But I 
	am being attacked spiritually by her or her mother.  They 
	have bombarded me with such feelings of hopelessness.  I 
	have very vivid dreams about her, she is always saying that 
	she is cursing me.  I immediately start saying
	the Lords prayer and building my protective aura.  
	I am terrified. 
	I wear a protective crystal at all times, this allows me 
	to sleep with less dreams of her.  I need help in cleansing 
	myself of her.  Does anyone have some help for me?  
	I talked to a therapist, but she refused to believe in the
	exsistance of evil.  I truely believe that I was living next
	to evil.

	This situation is why I have not participated in much lately I'm
	too scared...

	vivian

re; < Note 239.19 by KIRIN::SPARROW "CAUTION!! recovering smoker!" >
                         -< Was this the devil card?? >-

The biggest devil is the devil of what you allow yourself to believe.  Evil is 
given form by those who accept - and fear - its existence.

Then how do you get to sleep at night?  How do you stop fearing?

The woman was told that she was cursed, and that her children would also be 
cursed.  As the woman believed, so it became.  Out of fear of the curse, and/or 
belief in it, she adopted behaviors that would, ultimately, interfere with the 
happiness of her children, thereby perpetuating the curse.  You see what's 
going on, and are persuaded to accept that the curse is a viable entity.  It 
is, in that you, and others, accept it to be.  Take another look at how the 
cursed women is behaving to bring into her, and her children's, lives, the 
misery that was foretold.  It sounds to me like she has accepted the existence 
of an evil lord, made more so by her beliefs, and, as such, there is, indeed, 
an evil lord torturing the lives around her (including yours); I perceive that 
this evil lord is nothing more, nothing less, than a manifestation of her 
(unconscious?) belief in, and acceptance of, the curse.  The mind is a powerful 
thing, much more so than many can comprehend, and we can create demons that 
strike at our most terrible fears.

Symbolism;  See past the terrible form of any demons; see past your own fear of 
evil, and conquer the fear, and the evil will lessen.  Fear gives our 
unconscious, power; fear gives evil, power; overcome fear, and you can overcome 
evil.

Courage, strength, and the overcoming of fear give birth to a new day, full of 
light, love, and goodness.  Visualize a battle, in which you kill the spirit of 
evil, in which you have the courage to overcome your fear, in which you have 
the courage to know the goodness and truth of your nature, that can defeat evil 
of all kinds.

Yours may not be a brief battle/overcoming of fear, and you still might think 
that "something's there, and they/it really do/does have power over me"; as you 
think, so shall it be, and mental conditioning can be hard to erase with just 
one blow...have the courage to stand firm, and fight the dragon to win the 
heart of the princess, so to speak.  Check out the movie, "Clash of the Titans" 
and watch the brave warrior (son of Zeus) overcome the most horrid 
abborhitions.  Watch it, symbolically; see the evil as that which is feared; 
the warrior feels fear, yes! - but he conquers that fear, and in so doing, he 
becomes stronger.

Good luck - and remember the nature of your true self; the nature of love; and 
do not let evil make you doubt that your nature is truly good!

    re; .19
    
    I am very proud of you.  You handled a difficult situation very
    intelligently.
    
    	1) You called social services.  Not many people would have 
    	gotten involved.  You may have saved that child's life. I fear
    	for her sanity, unfortunately.  I hope she gets the care she
    	is going to need.
    
    	2) You moved.  You recognized a terrible situation, did what
    	you could for the participants and then took care of yourself.
    	You are smart and caring.
    
    Now take the next step.  As .20 said don't let it bother you.  You
    are free and clear of the mess.  It is spring.  Enjoy life!
    
    Stan

    Re .19
    
    If you would like some help and prayer do please mail me, I will
    not be back in the office untill next Friday so don't expect an
    instant turnaround.
    
    This is a genuine offer of help, which you are free to accept or
    reject.
    
    May God's mercy sound you and give you protection.
    
    In Jesus' Name
    
    Mark

    Thanks for all the support.  After cleansing myself, my daughter,
    my home I have not been bothered since.  I also have discovered
    smudge.  wonderful stuff.  When I have to drive past the old house,
    I think about my aura, yup its there, and think of how she no longer
    hold me.  I also make a strong feeling of good surround the car.
    It works.  No fear, no problems.  
    I can sleep again, and my daughter and I don't have nightmares anymore.  
    One suggestion was to never allow this person to speak to me,  well
    after the cleasing, I had a dream of her, I was back at my old
    house, she was standing there and couldn't speak, not one word,
    not one sound.  I laughed, did the ritual wiping of my hands, told
    her I gave her back her hatred, and refused to accept responsibility
    for her or her life.  The shock on her face as I awoke left me smiling.
    
    As for all the various religious mail(j witnesses, bornagains etc)
    I have received, thanks for your offers but I don't believe in your
    beliefs.  My God is forgiving, and has a great sense of humor. 
    He wouldn't give me the gifts he has only to condemn me as has been
    intimated.  I will pray to him in my own way, but thanks for your
    offers to *save* me.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to get testy, I just don't really enjoy mail
    condemning me from religious fanatics.....and offers of redemption
    if I will only follow their lead..........
    
    but to all others, thanks again,  sure is nice to sleep peacefully
    again.

    Yours in peaceful living.....
    
    vivian 

                              
    Hi Vivian,
    
    Glad to hear all is well.  You mentioned smudge - where does it
    come from and how does one use it?
    
    To all - I know smudge was talked about earlier somewhere, but have
    no idea where the references were.  Any help appreciated.
    
    Cindy
    

re; < Note 239.24 by CLUE::PAINTER >

                              
>    You mentioned smudge - where does it
>    come from and how does one use it?
    
Smudge is herbs (in this case, cedar and sage; may include others from time to
time, depending upon the purpose) tied together which you burn inside of a 
seashell to clear an area of any stressed/negative vibrations.  The purpose of 
the shell is to include all 4 elements (earth {herbs}, air {required to burn}, 
water {the shell} and fire {burning}).

.24  .25

In the Native American tradition the most common herbs are sage and
sweetgrass (cedar is also added sometimes). The sage "gets rid of
negativity" and the sweetgrass "draws good energy to you".

Jay

    
    Where can I purchase this?  (Though my grocery store usually has
    just about everything, I doubt this is one item they stock (;^).
         
    Does the Unicorn Bookstore in Arlington stock this?  I've never
    been there but am thinking about making the trip.
    
    Cindy

    The smudge I purchased is cedar, sage and sweetgrass. I got it at
    a health food store.  It can be bought at metaphysical stores also.
    The sweetgrass smell does resemble an illegal herb, but the
    cedar is what lingers the most.  The American indians use smudge
    for religious ceremonies, in sweat huts and medicinal purifications
    I think its wonderful..
    
    vivian

.27 (Cindy)

A place called the Hunter's Rendezvous on 119 in Pepperell, Joya's in
Fitchburg.

Smudge comes in two forms; as a 'stick', it's tied together in a bunch
with colored string, or loose in a bag. If you buy a stick, I would
advise breaking off pieces and burning it in a shell, as Meredith
described. Burning the stick tends to provide more smoke than you can
use, and its hard to extinguish (you must have water or sand handy).
I suggest using the loose kind, and getting a smudge-o-matic, from Ronco
for $19.95 ;') [..and if you order before midnite tonite...]

.28 (vivian)

Sweetgrass smells great before its burned!
btw; congrats on your new freedom.

Jay

    
    Thanks Jay, I know just where the place is in Pepperell.
    
    I have one of those simmering potpourri pots.  Is it possible to
    boil the smudge and use it that way, or is it best just to burn
    it like you mentioned in the last note?  (Cancel this request -
    I've decided to start a new topic on smudge, etc. - see you there).
    
    Smudge-O-Matic...Jay, you'd better get a VCR and FAST! (;^)  Those
    Ronco commercials probably contain subliminal messages or something!
    
    Cindy