Conference hydra::dejavu

    some superstitions are completely reversed from place to place.
    
    For example a black (or white) cat is considered lucky in some
    countries, and unlucky in others.
    
    /. Ian .\

    re .1:
    
    ... Sometimes it depends upon the size of the black cat.  :-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Actually, the black cat superstition says that if a black cat crosses
    you, it's bad luck,  but if he comes to live with you, it's good
    luck.  My neighborhood has an unusually large preponderence of black
    cats, most of which seem to have adopted my garage as their new
    home.  Are adopted cats tax deductible?
    
    Dave

    Perhaps this topic should be moved to FELINE.NOT :^)

    Some other superstitions I can think of off the top of my head:
    
    It's bad luck to spill salt.  The bad luck can be counter acted
    by throwing 3 pinches of the spilled salt over your left shoulder.
    	I suspect the origin of this comes from the middle ages when
    	salt was *very* expensive.
    
    Grey cats are lucky.
    
    Grey horses are bad luck.
    
    If someone sweeps (with a broom) under your feet you won't get married
    for another year.
    
    Three times a bridesmaid, never a bride.  This can be counteracted
    by being a bridesmaid nine times.
    
    
    The color that a woman wears when she gets married effects the
    marriage.  Poem follows, though I may have missed a few verses:
    
    Married in white,
    You've chosen all right.
    
    Married in blue,
    You know he'll be true.
    
    Married in brown,
    You'll live out of town.
    
    Married in red,
    You'll wish you were dead.

    >It's bad luck to sipll salt.  The bad luck can be counter acted
    >by throwing 3 pinches of the spilled salt over your left shoulder.
    >    I suspect the origin of this comes from the middle ages when
    >    salt was *very* expensive.
    
    Well, actually, the value of salt goes back prior to the Medieval
    period; the word "salary" comes from sale ("sal") because the Roman
    foot soldiers were frequently paid in salt rather than coin.
    
    On the salt-over-the-left-shoulder: this could come from the following
    --  a) salt is a good substance (it was a preservative), b) the
    left-hand side was considered the "bad" side (e.g., seeking after
    dark forces is called "taking the left-hand path" among practicing
    occultists), and the number 3 was coonsidered both "good" and the
    number used for a number of mystic things (there are other echoes
    of this, such as the Rule of Three).  [One classic dismissal spell
    for ghosts in ancient Greece was to spit beans at them and say
    "Begone!" three times; in Islam, a husband can divorce his wife
    by saying, "I divorce thee," three times, etc.]  Therefore, combining
    the elements, and you use the "pure" but spilled salt as something
    to direct against evil forces in a vestigal dismissal rite.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    P.S.: I copied the first line; there was no typo in the original.
    
    -S
    

    Why is it considered bad luck for a bridegroom to see his bride
    night before the wedding?
    
    Why do people say "bless you" when someone sneezes?
    
    What is the superstition of Black color associated with sorrow and
    Red color associated with death?
    

    re .7:
    
    People say "bless you" because it was thought by some than when
    you sneeze, your soul is momentarily spewed forth from your body,
    and saying "bless you" will make sure nothing sinister takes up
    residence before your soul can get back inside.  Some notions of
    possession were parents of this thought.
    
    The other two superstitions I'll pass on.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    RE: left (hand) 
    RE: .8 make sure nothing sinister takes up residence.
    
    Sinister is the Latin word for left.
    
    Tom
    

    Hmm.  Nobody's used this note for a while.  So, another one to start
    the ball rolling again (one hopes):
    
    "It's unlucky for three people to light a cigarette using the same
    match."
    
    Today, one might think it was because people holding the match would
    get their fingers burned after three had lit up, but this isn't
    the reason.
    
    The one I heard was that during World War I, after dark, if three
    soldiers bunched togther to share a match, the time involved for
    three to get all their cigarettes lit was sufficient so that an
    enemy rifleman could draw a bead on one of them.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    One interesting superstition I've heard concerns black cats.  It's
    not the typical bad luck that is supposed to occur when a cat crosses
    in front of you.  (BTW, it is supposed to be back luck only if the
    cat crosses from the left--the "sinister" side.)
    
    The charming one I heard, and which I used to comfort my sister's
    collywobbles on her wedding day, is that it is extremely luck if
    a bride sees a black cat on her wedding day, before the ceremony.
    In my sister's case, she was resting with tea and toast in her friend's
    bedroom before the ceremony, and her friend's black cat slunk out
    of the closet and jumped into her lap.  I assured her that this
    was wonderful luck, and she clutched that cat to her for the next
    hour.
    
    PS.  She and my brother-in-law are doing very nicely.
    
    Marcia

    Re .11:
    
    I don't want to transform this into FELINE.NOT; however, following
    up on the black cat business:
    
    In the _definitive_ and now, sadly, out-of-print cat book, _Tiger
    In The House_, by Carl van Vechten, he pointed out that there was
    a tradition that black cats were often assumed to ne unlucky unless
    you happened to own one.  Then they were good talismans, as exemplified
    in this mini-short-story:
    
    There was a little girl who had a black cat.  One night while she
    was carrying it, a ghost appeared in front of her.  It regarded
    her for a second and said, "Were it not for what you hold in your
    arms, you would now become what I am."  Then it disappeared, never
    to be seen again.
    
    Meows!  [Two of my three cats are black, oddly enough.]
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    In Japan, black cats are considered a sign of good luck.
    
    My grandfather's Japanese colleagues were absolutely thrilled
    to make the acquaintance of his cat, Satan, who was very
    friendly, and who would do tricks for them on request.
    
    						-- Ann

    I have a black cat and he kept crossing my path, causing me bad luck.
    I dyed him blue and now all my bad luck is gone. :-}
    
    		Dave

    Re .14:
    
    Was he a celtic cat?  :-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    This one has to do with crossing your fingers for good luck.  The
    variant I am familiar with is that you must cross ONLY the fingers
    of the right hand.  If you cross any fingers on your left hand,
    you will get ill luck.  If you cross fingers on both hands you cancel
    out the charm you are trying to work with the right hand.
    
    As a left-handed Capricorn, this wounds me deeply, but I must say
    that I always keep my fingers crossed when a plane I'm travelling
    in is taking off and landing.  And I've never had a bad flight!
    
    Marcia

    re .16:
    
    It's okay to cross your fingers during takeoff and landing except
    if you happen to be the pilot. :-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    [For those who aren't pilots, the reason they can't is there aren't
    enough fingers to spare for the job.]
    
    Then there are jinxes, such as "Don't tempt fate," by making an
    absolute assertion.  This borders, however, on Murphy's Laws.
    
    -SK
    

	    [RE .10]:  I always thought "three on a match" meant that
	if something happened twice, it would happen three times.
	For example, if two rockets explode on a liftoff, the third
	one would too.
			<_Jym_>

    Here are two charms the women can try if they're trying to snag
    Mr. Right.
    
    If you find your hem turned up, make a wish for the man you want
    and kiss the turned-up portion of the hem before straightening it
    out.
    
    If you're wearing a pendant on a chain around your neck, if the
    clasp of the chain should happen to work its way around to the front,
    make a wish for the man you want and kiss the clasp before turning
    it to the back again.
    
    Here's hoping . . .
    
    Marcia

    re .19:
    
    I think it'd be easier to kiss a pendant clasp than an upturned
    hem, particularly with some of the dresses _these_ days! :-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Re: .18
    
    Nah.  "Bad luck always comes in threes." is the superstition
    you're remembering.
    
    						Ann B.

    Did you know that in order to have your baking/cooking come out
    well, you should only stir the batter/soup/etc. in a clockwise 
    direction?  (I wonder if this one gets reversed south of the
    equator?)
    
    It is also considered quite unlucky to walk around a church in a
    counterclockwise direction.
    
    Marcia
    

    On the subject of baking, to keep a cake from falling bounce the
    pan up and down three times before putting it in the oven.
    
    Kathleen

    To make a wart go away, rub it with a penny, leave the penny someplace
    and forget where you left it.
    
    (I wonder--should I put this in the health notes file?)
    
    Marcia

    Does anyone out there do the "bread and butter" ritual?  When you're
    walking with a friend, lover, spouse, etc., if both of you detour
    around opposite sides of an obstacle, one of you must retrace your
    steps, go around the object again (this time on the other person's
    side) and say "Bread and butter!"  This is to prevent you from 
    quarreling or breaking up.
    
    Marcia

    One sports superstition I read of once is that baseball players
    believe it's lucky to see barrels before a game.  According to an
    essay on the subject by the late H. Allen Smith, one manager hired
    a truck loaded with barrels to drive by the stadium before crucial
    games to give the players a lift.
    
    Of course, in the decade or so since the essay was published, this
    might have changed.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    While we're on the subject of baseball superstition...
    
    I've noticed that at the end of every inning, more times than not,
    as the first baseman trots in toward the dugout, someone in the
    dugout will toss him a baseball.  Are there any baseball players
    out there who can shed some light on this phenom?
    
    

    
    The first baseman always brings out a ball at the start of an inning
    to throw around the infield. They throw one to him on the way into
    the dugout so that he's got one ready.

    Re .24:
    
    Does the person who finds the penny get warts?
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    I read an interesting one over the weekend:
    
    If you're single, if you fill your cheeks with water, you'll be
    married within a year if you can walk completely around the block
    and still keep the water in your cheeks.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Re:  .30
    
    I can't _wait_ to tell that one to my single-and-desiring-to-be-
    married friends.
    
    How big (or small) a block does it have to be?  Is there a "minimum
    block" size?
    
    Marcia

    Re .31:
    
    I assume a block is something upon which there are buildings that's
    surrounded by different streets.  Outside of that, I've heard of
    no restrictions.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    My family was great for having strange superstitions, and I think
    they even made them up as life went along in order to explain any
    "bad" luck they were going through.
    
    The one that caused us the most tension was when my mother decided
    to paint our kitchen light green.  After that, whenever anything
    went wrong for my father, he would blame it on "that @$&** green
    kitchen!".
    
    My paternal grandmother had another good one.  Every new year's
    eve after 12 midnight, no one was allowed to enter the house until
    a dark haired male came through the door.  This person had to be
    a non-family member, so we would always go and drag the son of my
    mother's best-friends over to grandma's so that the rest of the
    family could come into the house.  
    
    Verrry strange!
    
    Carole
    

    
    re .33 ...dark-haired male
    
    This is actually an old superstition, that if anyone but the above
    is the first to enter your house on the new year, that they will
    bring 'bad luck and unhappiness' with them.
    
    dave

        I have a strange superstition that my mother recently told
    me. She says it is bad luck to hang anything on a door knob.
    I don't know the reasoning behind the superstition.  Does anyone
    know?  I also heard one about when you find a penny...I used to
    pick it up until one of my friends said it had to be head side up
    for luck.
        
        Anyone believe if your ears are burning someone is talking about
    you?  It's right for spite and left for love.
    
        What about dropping silverware?  Where does this one come from?
    We say if you drop a knife a man will come to the door, a spoon
    is a woman and a fork a group.  The Irish seem to be notorious for
    superstitions, my family is, that is!!
    

    RE: .35
    
    Well, everything I hang on doorknobs seems to fall off. Most especially
    clean clothes. I've stepped on/tripped over stuff like that so often,
    I'm thinking of making it a superstition of my own! :-)
    
    I, too, would love to know where the knife/fork/spoon thing for
    visitors came from.
    
    Dawn
    

    
    
    	If your nose itches,
    	someone is coming with a hole in their britches.

I know a guy who won't accept salt passed to him unless you set the salt
shaker down on the table.

In the Philippines they say that if a house lizard chirps over your door,
you will have a visitor.  I have never known it to fail.

I admit to an aversion for the number 13.


John M.

    My grandmother used to say it was badluck for you to put your shoes
    on the table.  
    
    Does anybody happend to know why, (besides you getting a dirty table
    ;-)
    
    
    Also, my father used to stock car race, and told me it was extremely
    bad to have a green race car.  I guess that's why the "Indy 500
    ins't in Ireland :-O
    
    
    CS
    
    

  My (ex)father-in-law is an artist who grew up in a Jewish village in
  the Ukraine.  One of his paintings, entitled Superstitions strangely
  enough :^), depicted a number of Jewish village superstitions.
  
  1) one was the black cat crossing your path
  
  2) meeting a shiksa (non-Jewish woman) with empty buckets
  
  3) a sow
  
  4) things that were crooked -- house, lamppost, etc.
  
  5) throwing a bit of straw over your left shoulder with your right hand
     to ward off evil spirits
  
  and a few other that I can't remember right now.
  
  
  Except for the black cat and the sow (Jews are prohibited from eating
  pork), does anyone know anything about any of the others?
  
  
  							Terza
  
  

    I remember a superstition that I learned in school that said while
    in a vehicle (in this case, a school bus) crossing over train tracks,
    always lift your feet off the floor and hold your breath until the
    bus is over the tracks so that demons/evil spirits couldn't enter
    your body through your feet.  I assume that train tracks are rumoured
    to be a passage way for demonic beings into the "upper world"--is
    that true?  
    
    ~WJK~

    Well, a woman with empty buckets has the obvious symbolism
    of a sexually receptive woman.  So, a shiksa with empty buckets
    would have the symbolism of trying to lure a man away from
    Judaism with feminine wiles.  Not lucky.
    
    A sow is also an ancient symbol of Freya (in that part of the
    world) as the Goddess of Death.  Not something you want to meet.
    
    The symbolism of crooked things is also plain.
    
    							Ann B.

    Well, on today of all days:
    
    If a groundhog csees his shadow on February 2 after emerging from
    his burrow, he'll go back in and there will be six more weeks of
    winter.
    
    I'll bet the idea behind this one is that if the groundhog doesn't
    see his shadow, it's because it's cloudy, and things are likely
    to be warmer when the land has overcast clouds above it.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Is Candlemass and groundhogs day always on the same day?

    RE: .44 (Mikie)
    
    > Is Candlemass and groundhogs day always on the same day? <
    
    Ohmygosh... Is today Candlemas?  Seems to me that this day is observed
    only by (very devout) Catholics and Satanists.
    
    So tell us Mikie...
    
    John M.

    Reply to .45, John,
    
    Candlemas is the Catholic name for the holidays Imbolg, Lady Day,
    February Eve and  Brigid.
    
    Imbolg is more agricultural, Candlemas is more human inspiriation
    oriented. Both have much to do with seeding of ideas and crops. 
    
    The holiday existed in many different cultures before the Catholics
    decided to absorb it into their holiday scheme.
    
    I was just wondering if groundhog day always occured on Cnadlemass.
    There may be a connection. 

RE: .48

    > John M., why do you say only Catholics and Satanists celebrate
    Candlemas (Imbolc)??  < 


Because I didn't know about Imbolc.  Note my quote (emphasis added):

    "Ohmygosh... Is today Candlemas?  *Seems to me* that this day is
    observed only by (very devout) Catholics and Satanists." 

Know what I just CAN'T STAND about pagans?  They take every Christian holiday
and try to claim it as their own!


Hey, just kidding!!


BTW, Good Catholics take their household candles to church to be blessed
on that day.  Hey... What do you get when a priest blesses a PAGAN's candles?


Blessed Beeswax.   Hahahahahahaha!                          

John M.  

    Reply to .49, John,
    
    That's right, we bad, we gonna' steal every holiday in the
    neighborhood. B^) B^).

    Re .50
    
    Yea, all but Grover Cleveland's birthday.

    RE: Groundhog Day
    
    I looked this up in my trusty EOET (Extraordinary Origins of Everyday
    Things) and discovered some interesting things about Groundhog Day.
    
    This folklore originated with 16th Century German farmers.  The
    legend was that if a Badger emerged on a sunny day and was frightened
    by {his/her/it's} shadow back into hibernation, then farmers should
    refrain from planting crops, since there would be another six weeks
    of winter weather.
    
    The change from badger To groundhog resulted from German immigrants who
    setteled in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania (85 miles N.E. of Pittsburg) in
    the nineteenth Century.  The area had no badgers, but did have hoards
    of groundhogs, which the German immigrants conveniently fitted to their
    folklore. 
    
    At Punxsutawney's lattitude, the groundhog emerges from it's
    hibernating burrow in February.  If they'd settled a few states
    south, the groundhog would have been out and about in January. 
    In the upper Great lakes region, the cold weather keeps 'em in until
    around March.  Thus, it was the lattitude at which the German
    Immigrants settled that set Groundhog Day at Feb 2.
    
    It's interesting to note that the groundhog's accuracy in forecasting
    the coming of Spring is around 28% (observed over a period of 60
    years).
    
    It's also interesting to note that the elements that actually determine
    a groundhog's behavior, when it emerges, are hunger and sexual arousal.
    If the groundhog's appatites are dulled from his winter sleep, he'll
    return to his burrow for a six-week snooze.  However, if he's hungry
    and horny, he'll be out and about, looking for a mate and a meal.
    

    
    Re.52 on groundhogs and biological functions....
    
    Good one Dave!
    
    Sorta takes the mystery out of it though.  Whatever will all those
    groundhog watchers do from now on?  (;^)
    
    Cindy

    Just more tidbits of information about the seemingly peculiar timing
    of seemingly peculiar celebrations...:-)
    
    In these New England climes, one might well say on good ole Groundhog
    Day "It's all _uphill_ from here??"  After all, here, winter lasts
    til mud season, which lasts until the two weeks two weeks of spring
    we experience before the Summer Solstice.
    
    The measurement that marks these holidays is the sun's seeming progress
    from north to south and back again, the phenom caused by the 23
    degree tilt of the earth's orbital axis.  This apparent
    north-to-south-to-north-etc. travel is called the sun's declination.
    
    At the Solstices (in December and June) the sun reaches its
    southernmost and northernmost declinations.
    
    At the Equinoxes (in September and March) the sun crosses the equator,
    with the effect that days and nights everywhere are of equal length.
    
    These four astronomical reference points divide the year into its
    four major "seasons" that we call winter, spring, summer and fall.
    Each season is said to begin on the equinox (spring/fall) or on
    the solstsice (winter/summer).
    
    The midway points between a solstice and an equinox are called the
    cross-quarter days; halfway between two points, they can be said
    to represent the season at it height, at its fullest.  They occur
    when the sun is half-way between 23 degrees and 0 degrees declination
    (around 11 - 12 degrees).  They tended to be times when the 
    ancients either celebrated because a difficult season (like
    winter) was now on its downside, and/or mourned because an easier
    season (like summer) was passing on.
    
    Around Feb 2nd is one of those cross-quarter days; it is midway
    between the Winter Solstice and the Vernal Equinox.
    
    Around May 1st is the midway point between the Vernal Equinox and
    the Summer Solstice.
    
    Around August 1st is the midway point between the Summer Solstice
    and the Autumnal Equinox.
    
    Around Oct 31st/Nov 1st is the midway point between the Autumnal
    Equinox and the Winter Solstice.
    
    Marcia

    Precession of the equinoxes (wobble of the earth's pole)
    changes what day is the solstice;   

        Christmas *used* to be on the solstice.
    Dec 31 or Jan 1 was the solstice a few centuries earlier.
    It shifts a day, in somewhat less than a century.

    	One full cycle of the precession of the equinoxes takes 
    approximately 25,800 years.   Divide this by 365.25 days, and 
    that says it takes about 70.6 years for the equinox and solstice 
    points to move a full day.     Multiply by 30 days to get about 
    2100 years for them to move through an entire astrological sign.

        Christmas was three days from the solstice this year, and 
    would have been the actual solstice around 210 years ago.
    
    	"New Years" day is ten days from the solstice, and would
    have been the solstice more like 700 years ago.

			    	Alan.

    	How about mirrors?  You break a mirror and you get 7 years bad
    luck.  Yesterday I discovered that the mirror I keep in my purse
    was broken!  7 years..........    such a long time..........
    
    	And buttons?  you button your shirt, blouse, or coat etc. in
    the wrong buttonhole and you will have a bad day.
    
    	And gloves?  you drop your glove.  Someone else has to pick
    it up for you or you'll have a bad day.

    re .57
    
     >   How about mirrors?  You break a mirror and you get 7 years bad
     >luck.  Yesterday I discovered that the mirror I keep in my purse
     >was broken!  7 years..........    such a long time..........   
      
    I heard a segment of a routine by Stephen Wright, comedien...He
    said something like "Broke a mirror yesterday. Should get 7 years
    of bad luck, but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5..."
    
    ;-)
    
    -Amy.  

    Mary,
    Have you ever considered buying one of those steel mirrors?
    Mary_too_:-)

    My wife did a paper on superstitions(sp), and the reason that the
    groom shuldn't see the bride is that the Devil will find out who
    the man is marring and steal her away.  Thats also why she wears
    a veil.  They had a brids maid and best man to confuse the devil
    as to who is getting married.
    
    
    
    					Steve M.

    The devil must be awfully stupid.
    
    The bride is the one with the sly smile.
    
    The groom is the one sweating.
    
    
    John M.

    Ms. Scientific here, with today's report on What Is Superstitious
    Behavior, as put forth by the same dudes who brought you Depressed
    Dogs in Shock Therapy!!
    
    The proverbial "They" hooked up electrodes to rat's brain's pleasure
    centers.  The original reason for the tests was to determine extinction
    of behavior; if, upon pressing a lever to receive stimulation to
    the pleasure center, the rats received consistant reward (i.e.,
    the "buzz" went off every third time they pressed the lever, or
    every other time, et cetera), would their behavior of pressing the
    bar, extinguish more quickly, or more slowly, than another group
    of rats who received inconsistant reward (i.e., the "buzz" went
    off twice in a row, then not for three presses, then once, then
    not for a press, then three times, et cetera)?  In addition to the
    results sought (which showed that the rats with inconsistent reward
    kept pressing the bar long after the "buzz" was stopped, while the
    rats with consistent reward stopped pressing the bar much sooner
    when they realized the thrill was gone), they found a *surprise*!
    The group who got inconsistent rewards performed the act of pressing
    the bar in addition to other behaviors, i.e., they would walk in
    a circle before pressing the bar, or jump twice; the experimentors
    concluded that, because a rat had randomly performed the behavior
    before a successful bar press, the rat thought that the behavior
    was part of what had made the press, successful.
    
    What rodents won't do for a high...
    
    Meredith
    
    ps - I put this story somewhere else in here, but deemed it appropriate
    for this topic, too.

    Has anyone ever heard the one about if you see a HEARSE (The car)
     you hold a button until it is out of sight? 
    
    DAWN

    RE:  last one (Dawn)
    
    	 The hearse of the button :')...
    
    	 Terry

    RE: (TERRY)
    
        If you see a hearse, hold a button (on your clothing) until
    the hearse is out of sight.
    
     Is that what you were asking? Hope it helps.
    
               DAWN
    

    RE: .67
    
    	Do you have a list of calendar reforms then?   I don't, but
    it would be interesting to see, if you could tell us more than 
    just the year of the reform, but also what the changes were when
    the calendars were changed.
    
    						Alan.

  
  OK, another old note which most people probably don't read but anyway ...
  
  .39> My grandmother used to say it was bad luck for you to put your shoes
  .39> on the table.  Does anybody happend to know why, (besides you getting
  .39> a dirty table ;-)
  
  I heard this as being unlucky to put _new_ shoes on the table. The reason
  given was that it was a sin of pride [ to display your wealth blatantly ]
  so you're bound to be punished soon after. (Wonder if this applies to the
  yuppies who leave their brand-new BMW posing on the drive while their
  old slug-mobile is safely tucked up in the garage ? :-)
  
  Frank

    
    Such practices to "protect" the infants from evil spirits were
    and still are rather common in the other cultures. Some cultures
    do not give their baby names until 1 year old (hoping that evils
    would know of the newborn), some cultures used jade/amber/gold/
    silver/herbs/feng sui to fend off the evils. Infant mortality rates 
    were very high before we had vaccines for smallpox, TB, polio, measles, 
    and etc. (my grandmother had 12 children and only 5 made it through 
    all these childhood diseases); thus parents did everything they could 
    possibly think of (not knowing why babies died) to "protect" their 
    babies.
    
    
    Eva
    

    
    oops typo in .71
    
    It should say "hoping that evils would not know of the newborn"