Conference hydra::dejavu

	    Whaddya trying to do, scare us away from masturbation?
			<_Jym_>

I'd keep my hands above the covers, if I were you, Jym :-)

Re: .1, .2 -- Feeling guilty, guys?  Let's move this discussion to 
SEXETERA -- the base note didn't seem to have anything to do with your 
basic conscious "self abuse" per se, but rather with an involuntary (but 
perhaps desired) experience.

Tom

re .3:

You have it exactly right.  The incubus/succubus phenomenon had nothing
whatsoever to do with autoerotic fastasizing.  What I was talking about
was a being that fed of the sexual _energies_ released during "standard"
copulation.

There are several schools of thought that consider sexual energies as partic-
ularly important in the paranormal world.  For instance, one hypothesis for
the poltergeist phenomenon is that it's an involuntary outlet for suppressed
sexual energies of an unconsummated youngster going through puberty.

If there's that much force/energy available, there's a strong liklihood that
something might be able to feed from it.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

The energies stolen do not have to be sexual.  Many folk have experienced
being near someone and feelin completely drained afterward.  One theory has
it that these Vampires have "leaky" auras and must "refill" them from time
to time.

One way to stop the outward flowing of energy in these circumstances is outlined
in Dion Fortune's _Psychic_Self_Defense_.  Clasp your hands together over
your solar plexis and keep your feet together.  I've found it helpful
in other situations as well.

Oh, yes.  Don't try to take someone else's energy either.  You never know
what kind of karma you may be picking up.  (Herpes of the soul? :-))

Tom

    re .5:
    
    >The energies stolen do not have to be sexual. ...
    
    True!  There are cases of "The Hag Who Comes In The Night," a
    manifestation of something that visits people who are sleeping and
    _presses_ on their chest, apparently feeds on vital energy or fear.
     But speaking of incubi/succubi is easier, because many people have
    heard of them, if iddirectly.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

  All vampires are not dead.  I have run into several of them that
  were alive.  I'm sure that everyone has.  Have you ever been
  around a person that after you spend an hour with them you felt
  like sleeping about a week?  If so, that person is probably a
  vampire.  A side note - in my experience they seem to have grey
  to black (usually black - depends upon degree) auras.
  
  BTW, a prior response said not to try to take anyone else's energy,
  that you never know what you might try to pick up.  I totally
  disagree.  It is the surest way to rid yourself of one of these
  things.  Just let them start draining and reverse the polarity,
  and drain from them.  They usually don't do it again and try
  to get away from you.  However, I try to be VERY CAREFUL what
  I do with any energy I pick up from this, and NEVER do it to
  anyone that hasn't started it.
  
  /Kathleen

    re .7:
    
    I disagree with the contention that the way to fight a life-force
    vampire is to reversde the flow.  What you may pick up may be
    contageous (i.e., down the road you might find it tempting to become
    one yourself).  The best thing to do is create a solid block that
    prevents further flow, if you know the technique.
    
    If not, there are books on psychic self-defense (Dion Fortune's
    is as good as any) to consult.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    
    re .6
    
    "iddirectly" -  was this intentional or just a fortuitious typo?
                   
    Dave

  RE .8:
  
  As I stated in .7 I am VERY CAREFUL with this "fight fire with
  fire technique".  I only use it as a last resort when all else
  has failed with a very well developed vampire.  As a means of
  fighting any temptations to become a vampire myself I try to
  direct all of the energy I obtain this way to other victoms of
  the vampire.  I never use it for myself.  I normally use the
  "solid block" technique for low power vampires and among strangers.
  
  Unfortunately, for some unexplicable reason I seem to either
  be drawn to these people or they are drawn to me.  I had a well
  developed vampire living in the same house while I was a child.
  I learned phychic self defense early through trial and error.
  I worked for one for awhile.  I have worked with several.  Steve,
  do you have any explanations for this?  These folks are a pain
  in the neck and the psyche.
  
  /Kathleen

    re .10:
    
    It could be that your very ability to manipulate energies implies
    that when you're in a "relaxed" state those with a perceived or
    imagined need for energy input can sense an extra vigorous quality
    about your inherent energies.  This could attract them to you or
    possibly create a condition where your more positive aspects and
    their negative ones might cause a mutual "attraction."
    
    The other thing is that by getting to use your ability to manipulate
    these forces, they are increasing the temptation for you to use
    them yourself.
    
    Eternal vigilance is more than just the price for liberty; it can
    be the price for keeping our souls.
    
    Best wishes,
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

  RE .11:
  
  Thanks for the input.  As far as energies go I'ld rather draw
  them from the earth - it's easier, safer, and better.  I give
  a fair amount of this away to friends, relatives and people who
  need it.
  
  As a side note, has anyone run into a "reverse vampire"; that
  is someone who instead of taking energy gives it off?  My SO
  seems to be one of these, though apparently is doing it
  unconsciously.  Several people have noticed this and all of them
  are baffled as to why.  Incidentally, he seems to repel the real
  vampires.  Perhaps it's all the garlic in the Italian food :^).
  
  /Kathleen

    Hm.  Is it also possible that not all psychic vampires are evil,
    but in fact starved?  I have a friend who I find I must limit contact
    with or I feel I have to crash or eat the house down.  Neither of
    which helps, by the way.  I have done her chart, and she does not
    feel evil.  But she does have Pisces rising, with Neptune, its ruling
    planet, in her 7th house (personal relationships) conjunct the Moon.
    Now, there is no better planet for picking up on vibes than Neptune.
    And to have the 1st House (identity) ruler in the house of relation-
    ships literally says, about that person's sense of identity, "we
    are, therefore I am."
    
    She says, incidentally, that she loves being around me because she
    feels nourished and sustained (!) while I end up feeling wasted
    after our visits.  I think this is probably innocent, but is a
    problem, even so.
    
    Have any other psychic vampires of peoples' acquaintance innocent
    also?  Or have most of them been malefic, or at least knowing?
    
    Marcia

                                                                   
    
    It is my experience that not *all* vampirism is inherently evil,
    although it is a subject I approach with EXTREME caution.  I 
    suspect that many "psychic healers" have what is effectively a reverse
    vampirism.  I have used a "vampiric" technique quite successfully
    as a healing experience for many years.  It involves pulling energy
    from a person who is hurt or ill or clouded in some way (or maybe
    just down), cleansing it, and channeling it back.  I usually feel          
    somewhat drained afterwards, and need to eat a meal and sleep 
    for about two hours, I feel enormously refreshed, as does the person
    I have acted with.  When I met my SO, I found that he was able to
    do this as well.  When we met we instinctively fell into an astounding,
    cyclic healing resonance.  This is a technique we use in our lives
    quite regularly.  It seems to give us incredible cleansing and
    pleasure, and a great renewal of strength.  We also go to church
    together and take communion, which has a similar mutual resonance
    and healing effect for us.
    
    I include this note as an illustration and example.  I do NOT recommend
    it for others to try (unless you are already afflicted with a negative
    vampirism, in which case, go to it and pay off your kharmic debt!)
    since it is difficult and dangerous and not a novice exercise.  It
    is also something I only do with people I am already very closely
    tied with, and who are aware of what I am doing and freely consent.
    
    Rita
    
                                                               
                                                                 

    RE: .13,.14
    
    I have run into a few people who drain others unknowingly.  I don'tt
    think I would call them evil in that sense, but these are simply
    unaware of their "gift"
    
    I do something like you do in .14, but I take the negative energy,
    give it to the universe, and replace it with positive energy which
    I obtain from the universe.  Not quite the same, but the the same
    effect.
    
    The problem I see with vampirism is the same as with theft - it's
    OK if I give something away, but stealing it is another matter.
    I don't allways obtain consent first, as many of the people I do
    this for don't know what I'm doing, how, or why.  I am, however,
    VERY CAREFUL to give more than I take.
    
    Kathleen

    The base note posits the existence of people and/or other entities
    that require emotional energy as nourishment.
    
    Has anyone had experience with someone for whom emotional discharge
    seemed to be "excrement"?  Just as there are people who make me
    feel totally drained after our encounters, there are people who
    make me feel as if I just had Thanksgiving dinner and can't digest
    it.  The contact is not always bad--if they're up, I end up being
    up.  If they're down, I end up being down.  But rather than feeling
    empty, I feel stuffed.  It can be quite uncomfortable at times.
    
    Marcia

    Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but the term "SO" has
    been used several times in this Topic.  It seems to imply "spouse."
    Is that what it means?

    Re .17:
    
    It means "Significant Other," which can be spouse or, er, close
    friend.  Note it's not gender-specific, though it does seem to imply
    monogamy-of-the-relationship, or equivalent.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

(strange - it seems like I just answered this same question in another
conference. Or could it be....... deja vu?)

Significant Other is a term from sociology (I'm reaching back about 12 years
here, folks) which means the people in one's social group whose opinions and
behavior have a significant impact on one's own opinions and behavior.
Depending on the individual and the society it might be a different set of
people, but usually includes spouse(s) close friends, parents, siblings,
children, sometimes aunts, uncles and cousins, and possibly (depending on
your theory) teachers, bosses, co-workers or media figures.

In modern parlance it has come to mean either one's spouse, or (if one is
not married) one's lover.

Don.

    My S/O had once warned me of someone as a 'psychic vampire' & 
    I chose to disregard it. She was right. I was absurdly naieve.
    A very 'giving' person is liable to enjoy the opportunity to
    exercise their ability to give until it (literally) hurts. I
    could hardly do less (I often say). But 'tiredness' overwhelms
    & until it's recognized, 'one wonders what's happening. " QED.
    I had this experience yesterday working @ the bookstore with 
    someone my S/O called a 'starveling'; a desperate-drainer who
    admits to being 'oblivious' to temperatures, etc. A black hole.
    Fortunately I only work Sundays & he's off next Sunday. 
    
    - Boleslaw
    

    O.K., hopefully someone will keep track of this note and see mine,
    pardon my ignorance but I am new to this notes file and am basically
    just going through the directory finding interesting topics, this
    one in particular since I adore anything that has to do with vampirism
    caught my eye. But, tell me this, everyone in this notes file talks
    about "Psychic Vampirism" as if everyone does it. I would like to
    know if I know how to do this, or if I've BEEN doing it unconciously,
    or how to detect if someone may be doing it to me?? 
    
    -renee.

    Re .21 n(renee):
    
    > ..........  But, tell me this, everyone in this notes file talks
    >about "Psychic Vampirism" as if everyone does it. ...
     
    No, no.  Not "everyone does it."  Certain people can (and some of
    them _do_) do it.  Effectively, it's feeding off the psychic energies
    of others.
    
    > ... how to detect if someone may be doing it to me?? 
       
    Hard, but not impossible.  Is there a person with whom you associate
    who acts as other people do, but who, after you've been with her
    or him for a while, leaves you feeling exhausted or drained of vitality
    (this is as opposed to a boring person)?  If so, you may have been
    in contact with a psychic vampire.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re .22:
    
    Are they aware that they are doing this?? How would I know if I
    was doing this?? Or would I?
    
    -still confused, renee.

    Re .23 (renee):
    
    Yes, for the most partt, they would be aware of what they are doing.
    A psychic vampire feeds off the energies of his or her victim, and
    it almost invariably has to be a conscious choice (I'll get to the
    rare exceptions shortly).  The vampire finds a person or persons
    with a high energy level -- vitality -- and leeches some of the
    energies as a conventional vampire would suck blood.
    
    It's possible that someone _could_ be an unconscious psychic vampire,
    though unlikely.  Under such circumstances, you'd feel invigorated
    when around certain people who are simultaneously getting tired.
     I suspect, though, the techniquers involved could not be developed
    properly without a little conscious practice.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re:   .24  MARKER::KALLIS
    
    Steve,
    
    I am currently in the position of being sort of a "mentor on life"
    for someone.  The individual is in his mid fourties and had lived
    with his parents all of his life.  They did nearly everything but
    breathe for the guy, but they both passed away nearly two years
    ago.  He is in a tremendous "seat of the pants" learning curve.
    The fellow actually has a good solid nasty streak in him.  As a
    result, nearly everybody is unkind to him and they are half hopeing
    he will fall flat on his face.  I am of the oppinion that most of
    his nastyness is a direct result of being so smothered for his entire
    life.  I have agreed to get together with him now and then and help
    him with some practical suggestions on "life" such as budgeting,
    running a household as well as "What the heck do women want from
    me, anyway" type questions.  To say the least, the man's interpersonal
    skills are very minimal.  Lately I have noticed that I feel very
    drained and somewhat "worried" (for want of a better word) after
    speaking with him.  Even if the conversation is only to set up a
    meeting place for dinner, after I have spoken with him I feel oddly
    unsettled.  Up to this time I had believed this feeling was because
    I was giveing advice and I was merely worried and unsettled because
    I did not want to mislead him or be any form of substitute for his
    parents.  Now, after hearing what you have said on psychic vampires,
    I am beginning to wonder.  Am I being a willing victim?  Is "being
    needy" one of their known methods?.
    
    Marion

    Re .25 (Marion):
    
    >I am beginning to wonder.  Am I being a willing victim?  ...
    
    To set your mind at ease on that point: if a victim, certainly not
    "willing."  The very fact you're asking what you are indicates that.
    
    Quick test: does this "drained" feeling happooen only when you are
    reasonably close, physically, or does it happen after telephonic
    conversations, too?   If the latter, then the effect is more likely
    to be psychological than vampiric.
    
    > Is "being needy" one of their known methods?.
     
    Usually, it's peripheral to, not central to them.  That is, they
    tend to be reasonably "normal" in most other aspects of their life.
    
    There is a good chance that this person it just exhausting you
    emotionally.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

re; < Note 41.25 by SWSNOD::DALY "Serendipity 'R' us" >

    
Marion,

Why are you taking on this individual?  Perhaps there is a very good reason 
that no one else is lending a hand.  Is he really, seriously willing to make 
changes (have you seen evidence), or is he just feigning that he wants to 
change in order to get attention from you?  I suspect that the latter is true. 
It sounds as if it is hindering you to deal with him and he is taking advantage 
of you.  The feeling I get about your energy drain, is that it is happening 
because he wants someone to come and take care of him (familiar pattern) rather 
than taking care of himself.  Right now, that person is you.  He wants your 
help in getting another woman so that the responsibility can shift from you to 
her.

The fact that you are compassionate is wonderful.  However, do not put 
another's needs in front of your own, because we cannot truly take care of 
anyone else unless we are together, first.

    re:24
    
       What do they do? Just stand next to this "energetic" person and
    meditate? I know regular vampires suck on a persons neck. Now, I
    don't think these "phsychic vampires" can do something like that
    and not be noticed!!
    
       I'm not so much afraid that I may be doing this, but I am FASCINATED
    by this subject....this whole conference for that matter!!!
    
    BTW how do you know so much about this?? I've been reading through
    these notes and you seem very knowledgeable on many psychic topics.
    I have always been very interested in anything that has to do with
    the paranormal etc...If there is a course on it in some college,
    I would definetly take it!!! Any suggestions??
    
    -renee.

    
    renee,
    
    just remember to read everything here with at least as much skepticism
    as you would read anything else, and that every observer/reporter
    is biased.
    
    
    	bruce

    Re .28 (renee):
    
    >   What do they do? Just stand next to this "energetic" person and
    >meditate?
     
    For want of a better way to describe it, they set up an energy-field
    condition so that they can absorb energies by a form of induced
    transfer from the victim's field to their own.  This can be done
    quite unnoticably (save for the end effects).
    
    >I have always been very interested in anything that has to do with
    >the paranormal etc...If there is a course on it in some college,
    >I would definetly take it!!! Any suggestions??
     
    In some magazines, there are courses listed: these are a dime a
    dozen, and I'd be mighty cautious of taking any of them.  These
    range from the sublime [(unaccredited) universities] to the absurd
    [correspondence courses that offer you a complete "mastery of life"
    for a few dollars].
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

The following note is being posted at the request of someone who 
wishes to remain anonymous.

=========================================================================

I think I know someone who may be a psychic vampire.  The first
time I ever saw this woman I just felt a strong sense of something
not being right, and FEAR.  She is probably in her 40s, but looks more 
like old 60s with died hair.  The thing is, I threw up walls around myself
and fought to keep her from invading me, once I realized she was able
to.  She even appeared in a clairvoyant dream I was having.  She was
disguised as someone else that I was trying to get a message to.  SHe
intercepted the message, but her disguise lifted a little too soon and
I saw her behind it.  However, there is someone else who was in her
clutches.  I care about this person, but this is a subject I could never
have discussed with him because he is so anti this kind of thinking.
At the time she got control over him he looked and was 38.  Within 2
years he looked closer to 50!  He got some of the financial security he
needed from her, but I almost feel as though he sold his soul to the
devil to get it.

THis leaves me with a question.  Is there some way you can protect
someone else, someone who is totally unsuspecting, from a psychic
vampire.  I tried all kind of things at the time--mainly drawing her
attacks toward me.  This helped him, but I was injured in the process.
I have recovered from my injuries by removing myself totally from
the situation, but it has taken a long time for them to heal.

Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

    Re .31 (anonymous):
    
>THis leaves me with a question.  Is there some way you can protect
>someone else, someone who is totally unsuspecting, from a psychic
>vampire? ...
 
    That isn't easy, unless the person is willing to be protected. 
    Note what was said:
    
>.............  However, there is someone else who was in her
>clutches.  I care about this person, but this is a subject I could never
>have discussed with him because he is so anti this kind of thinking.
 
    Now it's possible that a skilled person could develop a talisman
    that might form _some_ protection, though I'd suspect someone who
    was really good at being a psychic vampire could work around it.
    But without that person's cooperation and understanding, any barriers
    that could be erected would tend to be undermined unwittingly by the victim.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.                                             

RE: .31 (anon.)
    
    Leaving any doubts outside the door...
    
    There are only two options I can think of here...
    
    1 -- prayer, to whatever deity/deities you believe might intervene.
    
    2 -- counterattack (probably with the aid of another party).  This
    is clearly an ethically complex and is moraly, spiritually and
    possibly physically dangerous.  If you decide on this course ...
    Be very sure that you trust (in all senses) whoever helps or advises
    you.  Be sure you understand what you are doing, the risks and the
    consequences before you start.  As in any case of responding to force
    with force -- apply the minimum force which you can be reasonably sure
    will be effective, quit when your goals are met, and forget all thought
    of retribution.  I can't warn you enough about the dangers of this
    course, only you can decide whether or not to take it, but keep
    in mind that, quite literally, this cure may be worse, overall,
    than the disease.
    
    					Topher

Someone else may have already said this, but...

Don't think energies can't be sent or pulled just because the medium is a 
telephone.  I have experienced energy assaults on telephone conversations.  
Remember, a telephone converts sound (energy in one form) into electrical data,
back to sound.  Why can't it convert other energies as well.

Beth

    We are all antennas, both absorbing and sending signals - both positive
    and negative.  Sometimes, unwittingly, we become the conduit for very
    negative forces.  It is imperative that we practice self-protection
    from "earth-bound" spirits, since they have the ability to invade a
    mind which is open.  Many people who were involved in EST were driven
    to the point of insanity by the practice of clearing the mind - which
    cleared the way for these malefic forces.  Sound scary?  I have had
    these experiences, and did not know how to protect myself.  Be very
    careful when you are face to face with a force you do not understand. 
    The Bible states..."if you believe in good, you must believe in evil." 
    Elevate your mind over the force which is near you - pray - ask for
    protection - ask for the courage to overcome the evil which is present. 
    There are forces which we do not understand.  Some of us know only
    enough to make us dangerous.  This topic is very serious, and if you
    come up against this force, you will recognize it.  Proceed cautiously.

    thank you

    
    There was a comment on 'mind emptying' I read recently (probably
    Yogananda) under a topic on Meditation, and the book said that one
    should not empty one's mind out because anything can fill the space
    ...rather fill it with God/Light and meditate on God/Light, then you 
    will be protected.  
    
    Cindy