Conference 7.286::sports_90

    
    	wow, is this for real????
    
    	You know what I think?  McHale isn't starting because he knows
    he will *NEVER* get MVP, so he's going to try and get best sixth
    man again, what a joke!

    Mr. Strout, you clearly misunderstand.....
    
    This is the anti-Celtic bash note.  It clearly means that any/all
    anti-Celtic fans get bashed here.  Watch, I'll show ya......
    
    Hey Dock Midnight, your haid's too friggen' big for your body and you
    sip discretely through a straw.  Besides that, you've got tons of flies
    on you!
    
    See, Mr. Strout?  That's the jist of this note.  Did you say that
    you're a diehard Laker fan?  :-)
    
    Hawk

    Sorry, for the sake of accuracy, I meant to say that Dock's haid is too
    friggin' tiny for his body.......
    
    Also, it's not just anti-Celtic fans who are entitled to get bashed in
    here, the same priviledge belongs to Celtic rivals, such a the Lackers. 
    So, feel free to bash Jimmy Clang (I just love that name!) in here too!
    
    Hope this helps....
    
    Hawk

    Hey, did the basenote get deleted before I readed it?
    
    Danged nab it.
    
    JD

    
    	hehe.. guess i misinterpreted that one... hehe.. hmm..

    I don't know, but I feel someone is abusing moderator priviledges.
    If the mods don't think the topic Doc started is allowable,
    then write-lock, and explain why.  Changing the name to one that
    is a personal attack is inexcusable.  Never would have happened
    in the old SPORTS.
    
    JD

Actually, it's a bug in notes.  Anyone can change the title of a note once the
topic note has been deleted.  I probably shouldn't broadcast that but someone
already knows obviously.  I'll change it back to something more appropriate.

j.

     Yea Jeff, you probably shouldn't broadcast that but......
    
    Big Game

    JD,
    
>>Never would have happened
>>    in the old SPORTS.

    What never would have happened? And why are you blaming the moderators?
    I don't even know what happened. As a moderator of the conference,
    I'd like to know what I'm being accused of ....
    
    JoJ

    someone changet the title of this note to "doctor zeros jerking off
    note"  or something like that......  Needle changed it back..
    
    Big Game

    Everthung is fine now JimWA.  Hey, I'll be rooting for Jetsies
    this week.
    
    JD

       Actually .0 IS one of Dock's better notes, I must say!
                             Denny

    Anybody have the score of the Laker-Boston game from Friday?
    
    Thank you.

    
    	no misprint there..
    
    	lakers - 119
    	celts - 110
    

    Yea!! LAKERS!!!

    Doc didn't want Celt's fans to get the wrong idea now that Bruce May
    exposed his true identity.
    
    Love the response now that SPORTS lives in the west!
    
    Mike

    Nope, apathy on my part anyway...

    	I figure Doc is trying to figure out who'll win the NBA
    Championship so's he cain root for 'em and say he's been a lifetime
    fan.  8^)  Mike the reason the pack (Celtics and Sixers) caught
    up to the Knicks was because New York just finished a very tough
    west coast road trip.  The Celtics are heading out there soon,
    as are the Sixers, and unless the Knicks totally collapse they should
    have a healthy lead after that.  I think Stu Jackson is doing a
    very good job.  As is always the case with New York teams, their
    talent is vastly overrated.  Jackson has played the guys who produce
    regardless of who they are in the New York media's pecking order,
    and regardless of how much pouting they do.  I think he's gotten
    the most out of their talent.  New York needs a good small forward
    to be a serious championship contender.
    
    				/Don 

>    and regardless of how much pouting they do.  I think he's gotten
>    the most out of their talent.  New York needs a good small forward
>    to be a serious championship contender.
    
 	Ain't this the truth! Vandeweghe's return keeps getting pushed
 back, too. They could also use a REAL backup power forward/center.
I like the hustle of Eddie Lee Wilkins, and he's probably a good 11th or
12th man, but they need something better. Kenny Walker had been better
this year, but to me, he's still in between power forward and a small forward.
I think the loss of Sidney Green this year has hurt the Knicks as much as 
anything, especially since they slowed their offense down.

	Jim M

    No, I'vebeen busy, and I like to put time, care, and effort into
    my bashing of the Fungus Jihad (tm).
    
    Anyhow, all of you Jihad members can get orgamsic about the Green
    for all I care. You guys will be most silent when the West Coast
    swing ends, and the Septics are sucking wind.
    
    BTW, I think the Lakers (barring injury) are looking at
    3-out-of-4-peat.
    And last time I looked the Sixers have won 9 in a row, and are ahead
    of the Fungus in the Atlantic.
    
    Finally, the Rockets are geling behind the Wiggins Floyd backcourt,
    and Thorpe is back in stride.
    
    Any of these teams, can slap Boston around, assuming the Green Slime
    (tm) can get by Detroit, which isn't likely.
    
    DrM

Watch out Dock, nexted thing you know, /Don will be wanting to 
meet you out back of the school at 3pm!

'Saw

    Dock's got detention.  Teacher caught him "pullin' it" in the cloak
    room.........
    
    :-)
    
    Hawk

    I heard you wuz "sippin' it" Hawk .... :-)
    
    

    The Celts bite the big one in Minnesota to the Wolves ! Tony Campbell
    hits for 44 !
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHHA ! (tm)
    
    My, how sweet it is .... 
    
    Hey Jihad, why don't you settle in for a spell, as the Fungus go
    on a extended road trip ? 
    
    I believe that we'll see the race between New Jersey and Boston
    tighten up considerably ....
    
    heh heh heh
    
    DrM

    
    	Boston's road trip (to name a few teams):
    
    	San Antonio, LA Lakers, Portland, Utah, Houston, Phoenix...
    
    	Last time they had it easy... this time it's war.  :)
    
    sean

    
    .32> San Antonio, LA Lakers, Portland, Utah, Houston, Phoenix ...
    
    Can you say 0-5-WC (WC = Who cares ? Boston vs. Phoenix)
   
    Boston vs. :
       
    San Antonio LOSS
    Lakers	LOSS
    Portland	LOSS
    Utah	LOSS
    Houston	LOSS
    Phoenix	WHO CARES !!!!
    
    DrM

    
    	yeah, (tm) that WC, okay?  I think it's going to be used a lot
    when referring to either the celtics of phoenix throughout the
    season.
    
    sean 

       Hey Dock, any clue how the mighty rockets did against the Suns
    on Saturday?
                                   Denny

    Re: Suns vs. Houston on Saturday
    
    Doc can you say 130-105!  I knew you could.
    
    Celts will beat Houston easily.
    
    Mike

    Re .33
    
    Are you for real?Not only are you immature,childish and foolish;you
    never make sense.
    
    
    
    Why don't we make a note called the Anti-Dr.M note???
    
    
    O_J

    Celts are already 2-0 on the road.  That is 2 more wins than anybody
    expected.
    
    Where is Dr. KnowNothing now?!?!?

    
    I thought you guys would enjoy knowing how PACRA (People's Anti-Celtic
    Revolutionary Army) managed to stop Gooney Bird's free throw streak.
    What a great choke job !
    
    HAHHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA !!!! :-)
    
    
    
                <<< TERRA::MASA3:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -< Boston Celtics (volume IV) >-
================================================================================
Note 145.18                  Birds Free Throw Streak                    18 of 18
LUNER::BROOKS "DrM : The Conscience Of SPORTS"       20 lines  13-FEB-1990 13:56
      -< Bite the BIg One Larry - Just like ya did in the 3pt contest ! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I hope to send a care package to all cities that Bird will paly
    on for the next couple of weeks.
    
    -Strobe lights
    -Boat horns
    -Nude pictures
    -A full length mirror (no way Larry can look at himself in the mirror,
    and not get shook up)
    -Some Duke students who can do that weaving back and forth behind
    the glass.
    -Dizzy pills
    -A Mafia hitman
    -A album of some of my best Celtic Bashes, to be played whenever
    he shoots free throws.
    
    Does anybody want to add anything on ?
    
    The streak must end !
    
    DrM

       Note as big a choke job as the Rockets though, eh Dock?
    BTW, how did one of your 'other teams' (LA) do last night?
                                           Denny

    I dunno denny .... all I know is that the Lakers are still in 1st
    place in the Pacific, have the best record in the league, ect.
    
    How 'bout the Septics ?

       How about the Rockets? The 'Septics' are 8 games better than those
    stiffs.
                                      Denny

    How about the Sixers ? They are a better team than the Septics ....

    
    How about 'dem Pistons?  There(tm) 1000 games better than those
    Charlotte wimps...

       Duck, you got so many 'favorite teams' nobody takes you seriously
    any more (most never did).
                                        Denny

    BROKENRECORD.COM(tm)

    Den-neise, I follow the Lakers, rockets, and Sixers. Period. I grew
    up a Laker fan (being in CA.), rooted for the Sixers ('cause of
    The Doc and McGinnis (sp)),  started following the Rockets when I moved
    to Houston.
    
    I've never claimed anyone else. Funny how you try to pin that bogus
    rap on me, but not on Mike Heiser ....
    
    Doc
    

>    I've never claimed anyone else. Funny how you try to pin that bogus
>    rap on me, but not on Mike Heiser ....
    
    Yeah Denny!  Go ahead and harass me because I'm a southwestern Celtics'
    fan who also happens to root for the locals 80 (not to be confused with
    82) games a year!
    
    Mike_who_also_cheers_for_whoever_is_playing_the_Lakers

    PNO::HEISER.....
    
    re. Celtics road trip.
    
    O.K. Mike ,so the green machine is 2-0 on the 8 game trip,come
    monday they'll be 2-2 and then theres problems,this team is
    getting on in years and playing games on the road every other
    day will catch up to them,they'll be lucky to go 4-4, most
    likely they'll be 3-5.......I'm sorta a Celtic fan but I'm
    a realist.......they have BLEW 7 games at home that they should
    have won........they are a pretender .period.

    I think they'll win tonight!!!!

    	Hey 00:00.00, what about the time in the cafeteria you told
    me you like the Knicks.  Of course at *that* time they had the 2nd
    best record in the league.  Heh, heh, heh...
    
    				/Don

    My it's been quiet in here ... but it's time to wake up the world,
    cause it's time for the Fungi to get slapped around in the playoffs
    !!!!
    
    
    Let's have a contest ! Who do you think will annhilate the Septics,
    and how many games will it take ?
    
    Doc

    Too bad you can't admit that the Celts have been playing well lately
    and are making a run at Philly**.  There's still time to take the
    Atlantic with 2 games remaining with Philly** (one tomorrow night).
    That would give Boston the second seed and probably home-court for the
    first two rounds.
    
    **One of Many Members of the Dr. M BandWagon Alliance

	Detroit in 4.   What do I win?
    
    sean

    With Dumars injury, Detroit may be candidates for an upset.  That would
    pave the way for Boston.
    
    We'll see how they handle the loss.  They could very well go into a
    slump and not have time to pull out before the playoffs.
    
    Mike

    
    Its been quiet in here because you've been on the LMU and Georgetown
    bangwagon... now that they're gone, you'll probably jump to UNLV or
    Georgia Tech or Duke or Arkansas...  But Doc is getting too clever,
    he's going to wait until the finals are over to jump this time.

       Anyone notice that those awesome Houston Shprockets don't even have
    a note! Oh, I fergot, they're only ONE of Docks' faves!
                                   Denny

    re .54
    
>>    Too bad you can't admit that the Celts have been playing well lately
>>    and are making a run at Philly.  
    
    Making a run ? HAHAHAHAHAHA ! Try a fox trot - we all know the Celtwits
    cain't run !
    
>>    There's still time to take the Atlantic with 2 games remaining with 
      Philly (one tomorrow night).
    
    Here we are, one Philly massacare later - the only way the Celts
    can take the Atlantic is to buy a boat ...
    
    
    Crunch time, clutch game, and the Sixers kicked lots of Green ---,
    and I don't remember seeing names taken !
                                     
    Boston can try,
    
    and the Celts can plead
    But the Sixers are too much with Barkey in the lead.
    
    Dawkins and Hawkins - 
    now that's a backcourt,
    
    Red had better sign Micheal Ray,
    And hope he don't snort,
    
    After last nights blowout,
    It's plain to see,
    
    That it might have been even,
    If it had been 5 on 3,
    
    You know, the Celts trying to run,
    Is an obvious blunder,
    
    I mean it's apparant to all,
    even to Stevie Wonder,
    
    Well, the best Boston can hope for
    Is Number 2,
    
    And that should be proof to all,
    That the Fungus are through !!!
    
    DrM
    

	Wow... Doc, how many miles per gallon are getting outta last
    night's games??? 8^)

    He's only in here when they lose.  Can't give them credit when they win
    so he had disappeared for a while.

       It's okay folks. As a Celtic fan I cain live with a 6er title every
    SIXTEEN YEARS!!
                                            Denny

    Nobody asked you if it was okay !
    
    HA !

    
    gotta admit Doc, that was a good one....
    
    mike

    
    George is a Sixers fan...  he has the same first name as George
    McGinnis.  Is that a valid reason?
    
    George is a Georgetown fan... he the school was named after him
    (his words, not mine).  Is that a valid reason...?
    
    Do I need to continue?  I think not!
    

    BTW SPORTS, Paul The Small has earned a new nickname :
    
    
    
    Dr. WriteLock - in honor of his unability to sustain a notes topic
    without getting write-locked.
    
    You can also call him The Human NextUnseen .....

Dr M

	I'm a Celtics fan, and I'm still rollward! The first Anti-Jihad Rap
Epic! You should send it to Milli Vanilli, or Run DMC, or Jazzy Jeff!

HAHAHAHAHAHAGURP!!(TM)

MIKE JN

    Okay people, here's the contest you've been waiting for :
    
    
    The "When Will The Celtics (Septics, Fungus, ect) Bite The Big One!"
    Contest !!!!!
    
    No entry fee required !
    
    Just enter the Round, the team, and the number of games you think
    it will take for the Septics to get dusted !
    
    As a tie breaker, give the score that the Greenies will get blasted
    by in the final game.
    
    Example :
    
    Round	Team 		Games		Score
    1		Bucks             4		125-95
    
    The winner will recieve a special NBA prize of the team of his choice.
    (No Celtic paraphanaila will be awarded.)
    
    Enter now !
    
    DrM

    Round	Team 		Games		Score
    -----       ----            -----           -----
    Finals      Suns              7		110-101

Round		Team 		Games		Score
-----		----		-----		-----
Eastern Semis	Detroit		6		98-92

TTom

    
     Round      Team         Games               Score
    -----------------------------------------------------
    
     East-Semis  Det.          4                  110-87
    
    BA.

    Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until the matchups are determined
    Doc?
    
    					Steve

    I thought this way it could be more fun .... but I can close this
    contest on the last day of the regular season ... when is that ?

    
    Celts to sweep the Rockets Doc who dusted off the Fakers....
    
    113-94 in game 4....
    
    mike

    Season ends April 22.
    
    John

    Once again, the official kickoff of the :    
    
    The "When Will The Celtics (Septics, Fungus, ect) Bite The Big One!"
    Contest !!!!!
    
    No entry fee required !
    
    Just enter the Round, the team, and the number of games you think
    it will take for the Septics to get dusted !
    
    As a tie breaker, give the score that the Greenies will get blasted
    by in the final game.
    
    Example :
    
    Round	Team 		Games		Score
    1		Bucks             4		125-95
    
    The winner will recieve a special NBA prize of the team of his choice.
    (No Celtic paraphanaila will be awarded.)
    
    Enter now !                              
    
    Deadline for all contestant's entries will be Midnight (of course), 
    Wednesday, April 25, 1990.
    
    DrM
               

    Deja vu?
                                      Denny

    
    Good a place as any.
    
    I beleive it was Mike C., could be wrong, that said awhile back that
    Boston doesn't get the calls any more. Certainly wasn't true Friday
    night against Chicago. With Boston leading by 3 and about 4 seconds
    left in the game, Chicago's ball, Chicago got a T called on the bench.
    The foul shot was made to seal the win. Ridiculous!
    
    On a related front...
    
    Yesterday CBS amazingly showed a totally meaningless Boston-Philly game
    that Barkley was suspended for and they had to know that Bird would be
    riding the pine since the game meant nothing instead of the Spurs-Suns
    game that decided the Midwest championship and the 2nd seed in the
    Western playoffs. Unbeleivable! CBS still thinks the NBA consists of
    Boston, LA and Michael Jordan. Whoever made the that decision should be
    rapped up side the haid.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    I was at the game Friday Hoot (thanks Nazz !), and the call was
    a dead-ball foul on Pippen (before the ball was inbounded) ....
    un-f**king-believeable ... a classic Boston Garden call ... the
    ref must have been making a quick get-away .... :-(

Hoot,

The call was made because one of the Bulls players fouled {held}
a Celtic before the ball was inbounded.  Automatic technical.  
Another conspiracy theory bites the dust.

    
    Thanks Doc, the TV announcers said it was a T.

    	Nice try Doug, but as always the circle remains unbroken.

    
    Hoot, you misunderstood me, I didn't say that the Celts don't get
    the calls, I just said the Lakers get all the calls, the Celts
    get about 80%....
    
    ;^)
    
    mike

Celtics go down in Round 1, game 6   113-104.  Ewing carries Knicks past
Celts.

Hopefully an early exit will lead to a massive overhaul.  Dallas
Mavericks are supposed to be looking to deal their first round
picks {I think they have three}.   McHale for a high would be fine.
Sam Perkins is also a free agent.    

May we only see DJ, Bagley, and Paxson for 6 more games.   

Next year:  Shaw, Lewis, Charles Smith and Gamble in the backcourt.

    Wrong Doug. The call was absolute BS ... normally in the last 2
    minutes, you have to see a head roll before the whistle blows, then
    there is this ticky-tack foul call. Most of the people around me
    were Celtic fans, and THEY had to shake their heads at that one.
    
    The look Craig Hodges had was classic. I yelled "you guys got screwed,
    what a chikens--t call !" He looked all around, caught my eye, and
    shrugged his shoulders, and mouthed, "yeah, but what do you expect?"
    I was roolward .....
    
    Doc

    BTW, I thought the first round was a best of five ?
    
    Doug, you might have to change your pick .....

    re .87 & .89, yes the first round is best of five.
    
    
    Fresh off a win in the Hartford Whalers contest, here's my entry:
    
    Round	   Team		Games		Score
                 
    NBA Finals     Lakers	5		108-94	
    
    
    py

re Paul:

You don't want to start sounding like Onan Dan do you?  ;^)

'Saw

Okay.. make it Knicks in 5 in round 1.  

A housecleaning is in order... starting with Red... then Jan Volk...
then Jimmy Rodgers... then Chris Ford... then DJ... then Bagley...
then Paxson...  then trade McHale.

From: clarinews@clarinet.com
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Shaw won't rejoin Celtics for playoffs
Date: 23 Apr 90 18:42:15 GMT
 
 
	BOSTON (UPI) -- The Boston Celtics decided Monday not to add guard
Brian Shaw, who has played this season in the Italian League, to their
playoff roster.
	Shaw's team, Il Messaggerro, is playing the first round of its
post-season playoffs and it was uncertain when the 6-foot-6 point guard
would have been available to join the Celtics.
	Shaw left Boston after his promising rookie season in 1988-89,
signing a one-year contract last summer to play in Europe. He has
already agreed to a multi-year pact with the Celtics and will return to
Boston next season.
	The Celtics' playoffs begin Thursday when they start a best-of-five
series with the New York Knicks.
	Boston was required to submit a 12-man roster to the league by 3
p.m. Monday. The Celtics have six players who can play guard, including
swingmen Jim Paxson and Reggie Lewis. The four players who play only in
the backcourt are Dennis Johnson, John Bagley, Kevin Gamble and Charles
Smith.
	If Shaw had rejoined the team, he would likely have displaced
Gamble, a shooter who has received limited playing time, or Smith, a
rookie whose primary strength is his ability to start the Celtics' fast
break.

    Come on people ! This is your last chance to enter your pick in
    the Celtic Elmination contest !
    
    The deadline is 7PM EST today ....

    	How many entries so far and what do I win?????  8^)

    I guess we just believe that they won't be eliminated!

    Pistons in 6...  106-97

           <<< OURGNG::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< OURGNG::SPORTS - Digital's daily tabloid >-
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Note 49.77                  Official Anti-Celtic Note                   77 of 98
LUNER::BROOKS "Nazz 5, DrM 3 = How low can I go ? ." 29 lines  23-APR-1990 10:03
                      -< The Celtic Elmination contest ! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Once again, the official kickoff of the :    
    
    The "When Will The Celtics (Septics, Fungus, ect) Bite The Big One!"
    Contest !!!!!
    
    No entry fee required !
    
    Just enter the Round, the team, and the number of games you think
    it will take for the Septics to get dusted !
    
    As a tie breaker, give the score that the Greenies will get blasted
    by in the final game.
                                                                           
    ============================================================
    ============================================================
    Example :
    
    Round	Team 		Games		Score
    1		Bucks             4		125-95          
    =============================================================
    =============================================================
    
           
    **********************************************************************
    PRIZE :    
    The winner will recieve a special NBA prize of the team of his choice.
    (No Celtic paraphanaila will be awarded.)                             
    ***********************************************************************
    
    Enter now !                              
    
    Deadline for all contestant's entries will be Midnight (of course), 
    Wednesday, April 25, 1990.
    
    DrM
               

 
    Round	Team 		Games		Score
    1		Knicks             5		105-99          
    =============================================================
    =============================================================
    
           
 

    =============================================================
    Round	Team 		Games		Score
    4		Suns              7		n/a since Boston will win
    =============================================================

    	So Mike, you don't expect to win?  8^)

>    	So Mike, you don't expect to win?  8^)
    
    What have I got to lose?  Some of us are faithful to our team, no
    matter the obstacles.  
    
    The Doc just better hope that I don't win! ;-)

    	I'll be faithful to Chicago forever... I hope Doc's got some
    Chicago memorabilia??? 8^)
    
    	BTW, Mike, nice p_n.  I wonder how many people know the origin??
    8^)

Doc, can you list the matchups in the east, and who would play whom as they
climb up the ladder.  Really, who would the Celtics play if the refs give them
the Knicks on a silver platter?

Dan

    
    
    (1) Pistons v.s. (8) Pacers
    (2) Sixers (not Bulls) v.s. (7) Cavs
    (3) Bulls v.s. (6) Bucks
    (4) Celtics v.s. (5) Knicks
    
    Round 2...
    
    Pistons-Pacers v.s. Celtics-Knicks
    Sixers-Cavs v.s. Bulls-Bucks
    
    
    Conference Finals:
    

    Pistons(2nd series) Game 6  99-91

    
    Round 2
    
    Game 6 (CBS will stretch it out)
    
    score 110-98
    
         HOOT
    

    
    Pistons game 7.  102-84.

    	Hey there's this new movie out called CRYBABY.  Reading the
    last few notes made me think about it.  8^)
    
    				/Don

< Note 49.110 by AXIS::ROBICHAUD "Dockers...Pants for |CENSORED|s" >


>    	Hey there's this new movie out called CRYBABY.  Reading the
>    last few notes made me think about it.  

Starring one, Tracy Lords!

daryll

    As of 3pm, I'll close this contest .....

    	Hey the series already started!  Fix!  I demand a trial!  MrT
    are you busy?

    Well, this is one of the finer contests I've seen around.  Each
    contestant has a 20% chance of winning!  What a deal.
    
    					Steve

    re Steve
    
    That's the only reason I entered.... :-)

    
    Steve, 
    
    One of the entrants picked the Celtics out of all the noters in
    here, only 4 believe the Celts won't win.  EVen ole Doc didn't enter,
    because being the devout Celtic fan he is, he knows they have it
    in the bag.
    
    
    Bruce

    I'm rolling Bruce! ;-)
    
    Mike

Best camoflage in the world is make 'em think you're somethin'
ya ain't.....8^)

    I didn't enter because I'd be framed and face a ACChris-type of
    trial - who needs it ?

    
    Good cover, Doc.  You've obviously been taking strategy lessons
    from Red.
    
    Bruce

    	Doc, just wondering, do you really have parephenalia (wtf sp?)
    for every basktball team??

    No, I had planned to go to MVP, or that shop across the street from
    Fenway, and puchase the winner's merchandise ....

           <<< OURGNG::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< OURGNG::SPORTS - Digital's daily tabloid >-
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Note 49.75                  Official Anti-Celtic Note                  75 of 122
CNTROL::CHILDS "Those hazy lazy days of summer are h" 6 lines   6-APR-1990 08:17
                         -< some things never change >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Celts to sweep the Rockets Doc who dusted off the Fakers....
    
    113-94 in game 4....
    
    mike

          
These are the competitors for the contest ...

	    		Round       Team 	Games		Score
	    		-----       ---- 	-----           -----
(SAGE::ROSS).93		1st	    Knicks	  5		None given
(RSST6::RIGGEN).100	1st	    Knicks	  5		105-99
(RAVEN1::B_ADAMS).72   	East-Semis  Det.          4             110-87
(LEVERS::STOUDT).78	2nd	    Detroit	  6		93-88
(AUNTB::HASS) .71   	Semis	    Detroit	  6		98-92
(REFINE::ASHE) .98	2nd	    Pistons	  6 		106-97
(STRATA::CAPPEL).107	2nd	    Pistons	  6		99-91
(GENRAL::GIBSON).108	2nd	    Pistons	  6		110-98
(ROCK::GRONOWSKI).109	2nd	    Pistons  	  7		102-84
(STAR::YANKOWSKAS).90 	NBA Finals  Lakers	  5		108-94	 
(UPWARD::HEISER).70	Finals      Suns*         7		110-101  
(CNTROL::CHILDS) .75 	Finals	    Houston*	  4		113-94

The * mean that the (silly) noter picked Boston to beat this team for the
title.

Good luck to all of our competitors - except for Heiser and Childs of course.

    Lemmee in!  Lemmee in!  
    
    Unless, of course, you guys are scared of a little competition.
    Besides, Doc didn't answer my question, and I didn't get a paper until
    an hour ago.
    
    Celts go down in game 5 to the Pistons (after the refs finish handing
    them the Knicks series).  The score is 108-92, Detroit.
    
    Dan

    >            -< Very experienced contest winner casts vote >-
    
    In reply 90.  :-) ;-) :-)
    
    
    py

    No way, Paul.  One win just makes you experienced.  Two earns you the
    "very" in your title.
    
    Dan

    
    Well folks I now have proof that the ACChris "contest" was fixed.
    Promised the 2nd place contestent the other ticket, eh Dan?

    Uh oh.  You're not going to divulge *that* information are you
    Hoot?  Hasn't the statute of limitations run out?  
    
    I forgot all about that highlight of our evening...........
    
    Claybone

    
    Rich Dan rich, ;^).....but actually the refs have been to busy on the
    left coast making sure the Fakers advance.....
    
    Calling Houston for an illegal zone defense in the second half was
    a beauty. Also it's amazing how all the Lakers can pick up their
    dribble at the top of the key and still complete a layup....
    
    mike

  <<< Note 49.130 by CNTROL::CHILDS "Have u ever seen a President do less?" >>>
                   -< Your pots not black Dan, it's BURNT!! >-

    
    Rich Dan rich, ;^).....but actually the refs have been to busy on the
    left coast making sure the Fakers advance.....
    
    Calling Houston for an illegal zone defense in the second half was
    a beauty. Also it's amazing how all the Lakers can pick up their
    dribble at the top of the key and still complete a layup....
    
    mike

   Shheesh! I just put Mike C's reply back in again.
   Whatta dewd i yam!

   I hadn't entered this contest because it was to pick when the Celts
   would get dumped, and I think they'll go all the way.

   Where can I get some Celtic Memorablelabia (tm) ? I never see nothin
   but Donks and Nuggets in Colorado.

   Mike JN

    Hey Doc!  How did the Celts do on Saturday?
    
    157 points         = All-Time NBA record for points scored in a playoff 
                         game!
    67% from the floor = All-Time NBA record for Field Goal percentage
    
    Against the young, quick Knicks too!
    
    If they keep this up, Detroit doesn't have a prayer!
    
    Mike

    
    Mike, don't be too hard on Doc, he having a hard enough time as it
    figuring out what constitudes a ZONE defense....
    
    ;^)
    
    mike

    Aww Mike.  Don't you owe me a coupla "I'm sorry what I said about James
    Worthy"'s?  I'd say you should write it 100 times on the blackboard.
    
    Dan

    Heiser ... the Fungus set a few records against an uninspired Knicks
    team in the 1st round. Big deal.
    
    You hang onto to those park-effect stats for comfort after the Sixers
    (or Pistons) wipe the deck with ya in the next round ....
    
    heh heh heh

    
    No Dan, I don't. Ole Jimmy boy Clanged one up there from the line
    at crunchtime. Jimmy's playoff performances always leaving me wondering
    well where is it during the year, where's the consistency? Of course
    coming form UNC it's easy to see where the underacheiving attitude
    was established......
    
    mike

    re < Note 49.125 by WNDMLL::SCHNEIDER "Oh+" >  
    
    >    Celts go down in game 5 to the Pistons (after the refs finish handing
    >    them the Knicks series).                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Really now, Dan. The refs had nothing to do with the Knicks lackluster
    performance on Saturday. They (the Knicks) were outcoached, outhustled
    and outplayed. Old Man Robert Parish took young Patrick to school.
    
    The team I would watch out for is San Antonio. They very well *COULD*
    run the Lakers (if it gets that far) into the floorboards. That
    is one exciting team.
    
    Rich
    

>    The team I would watch out for is San Antonio. They very well *COULD*
>    run the Lakers (if it gets that far) into the floorboards. That
>    is one exciting team.
 
    	SA would have gone 3-1 against them this season if it hadn't
    been for that 3pt by:  Cooper, Scott (I forget which one now)
    at the buzzah.  They definitely match up well against the Lakers
    for some reason.

    You've reached a new low, Mike.  Now after two virtuoso performances in
    a row, two player of the game over Magic, two games with great effort
    and results on *both* ends of the court, you've got the nerve to
    complain about *one lousy missed free throw*?!?!  He was 6 of 7 or 8 of
    8 from the line yesterday, and the only thing you can do is complain
    about the one miss???
    
    As for consistency, that's even a worse argument, if it's at all
    possible to construct a worse argument than the free throw and not be
    MrT.  James is one of the most consistent players in the league.  And
    when the competition gets tougher, James just gets better.  It's a nice
    feature.
    
    Dan

    Two things have to happen for LA and SA to meet:
    
    1. LA has to beat Phoenix
    2. SA has to beat Portland
    
    Neither of which is guaranteed!
    
    Mike

>    As for consistency, that's even a worse argument, if it's at all
>    possible to construct a worse argument than the free throw and not be
>    MrT.  James is one of the most consistent players in the league.  And
>    when the competition gets tougher, James just gets better.  It's a nice
>    feature.

I don't buy it.   That "feature" says either James ain't trying 100% in
the regualr season.    If he could just once put together a season of
28 ppg, 8 reb, 4 assists, he could be "worthy" of the accolades.  If
he can only do it in the playoffs {and let's not extrapolate 2 games 
out to a full playoff schedule yet}, he should do it during the season.

Nope, James is willing to do just as much as he needs to do during the
regular season.   If it means 1 rebound, that's okay.  

He had two great games so far, but the talent level {and the intelligence}
of the competition leaves much to be desired.  Houston has to be the 
dumbest team in the playoffs.  They get by on sheer physical talent only.

    >If
>he can only do it in the playoffs {and let's not extrapolate 2 games 
>out to a full playoff schedule yet}, he should do it during the season.
    
    Not just 2 games, Doug.  It's practically a playoff career by know.
    James has been the leading scorer for the Lakers in the playoffs each
    of the last 3 years, which is probably somewhere around 5 or 60 games
    by now.
    
    >Nope, James is willing to do just as much as he needs to do during the
    >regular season.   If it means 1 rebound, that's okay.  
    
    C'mon.  You should know better.  It's a different game in the playoffs. 
    Defenses are more intense.  Minutes are handed out differently.  The
    Lakers end up playing a lot more half court set offense, and look to
    Magic and James a lot more to create their shots.
    
    He's deserving of praise for his playoff performances, and if a
    basketball mind like Don Nelson can recognize it, that's all you need
    to know....that is, after my own appraisal.  Don't use excellent
    playoff play as a weak excuse to bash an All Star regular season.
    
    Dan
                                                              
    
    

    >>  <<< Note 49.141 by UPWARD::HEISER "Mr. Potato Head Groove Thing" >>>

    >>Two things have to happen for LA and SA to meet:
    
    >>1. LA has to beat Phoenix
    >>2. SA has to beat Portland
    
    >>Neither of which is guaranteed!
    
    
    Yo Mikey, the SunStrokes (tm) gotta get by 'da Jazz foist. THAT is not
    guaranteed!!!
    
    
    Hope 'dat helped

   >> He's deserving of praise for his playoff performances, and if a
   >> basketball mind like Don Nelson can recognize it, that's all you need
   >> to know....that is, after my own appraisal.
    
    C'mon, Dan, your slip is showing ...  
    
    If Don Nelson's opinion of James Worthy is to be held up as a
    standard of some sort, then why isn't Gene Littles' appraisal of
    J.R. Reid not afforded the same respect ???
    
    Bob Hunt
    
    

    re .144
    
    It helped a lot ! HAHAHAHA !!! The Lakers beating Phoneix is about
    as assured as the sun rising in the East tomorrow morning.
    
    re .145
    
    Bob, maybe Nelson gets more respect because he's won 500 more games
    than Littles ?
    
    Hey, I'm not taking sides, but that was tooo easy ...

   >> Bob, maybe Nelson gets more respect because he's won 500 more games
   >> than Littles ?
   >> 
   >> Hey, I'm not taking sides, but that was tooo easy ...
    
    Hey, I agree.  Nelson is a much better coach than Gene Littles.  
    
    I just want to know why we *must* believe the opinion of the coach
    of the Golden State Warriors when he praises one of the Los
    Angeles Lakers' players..
    
    Contrast that with the assertion that we're *not* supposed to take
    as gospel the words of the coach of the Charlotte Hornets when
    that coach's words pertain to the starting center of those very same
    Charlotte Hornets.
    
    Can't always have the cake and eat it, too.
    
    For the record, I believe that both Nelson and Littles are right. 
    James Worthy is a superb ballplayer and J.R. Reid needs work on
    his post-up game.
    
    Bob Hunt

If Worhty is good and JR is bad, it proves beyond the shadow of JR's butt
that Dean is amphibious.

TTom

>   <<< Note 49.144 by CSC32::J_HERNANDEZ "AFool&HisMoneyAreSoonPartying!!" >>>
>    Yo Mikey, the SunStrokes (tm) gotta get by 'da Jazz foist. THAT is not
>    guaranteed!!!
    
    Hey Devil Dog, if you've seen the Jazz lately, you wouldn't have said
    that.
    
    You and Doc better pray that LA does beat Phoenix!
    
    Mike

    re .147
    
    Bob, I agree on both points. I also think that there is a strong
    possibility that Little's said that to shame JR into working on
    a post-up game, not necessarily to reflect in any way on Dean Smith.
    (No I'm not defending Chris - God forbid !)
    
    After all, James Worthy has one of the best back-to-the-basket games
    in the league for a small forward (or anybody else for that matter),
    it very well could have been that JR went through the motions or
    whatever, and Little was apply a common motivational technique to
    get his oversized derrierre in gear.
    
    BTW, I've seen it before (NBA coaches criticizing lack of college
    prep on the basics) - Guy Lewis' coaching techniques were questioned
    when Larry Micheaux and Drexler were in the NBA (very early in both
    players rookie years), and you could tell that it wasn't as much
    the player's fault as the coach's (suprise :-) ....

    >If Don Nelson's opinion of James Worthy is to be held up as a
    >standard of some sort, then why isn't Gene Littles' appraisal of
    >J.R. Reid not afforded the same respect ???
    
    nelson's appraisal of Worthy is one that is well-echoed in and around
    NBA circles.  Littles' criticism of Reid, and your extension to make it
    a criticism of Dean Smith's teachings are a solitary point of light. 
    
    Dan

   >> nelson's appraisal of Worthy is one that is well-echoed in and around
   >> NBA circles.  
    
    So the more people who hear it and believe it, the truer it is ???
    
    C'mon, Dan, you're above this line of reasoning.  Well above it. 
    I'm not arguing Nelson's point. Nelson is to be respected.  If Don
    Nelson thinks James Worthy is the cat's pajamas, then so be it. 
    That's Don Nelson's opinion.
    
    Let's twist this statement of yours "just a bit" to see its inherent
    dangers ...
    
    "Jim Jones' appraisal of modern religion is one that is well-echoed
    in and around extremist religious cult circles."
    
    Just because an "expert" can persuade the masses to believe his
    viewpoint doesn't automatically make it a truth.   And you know
    that.
                                                    
   >> Littles' criticism of Reid, and your extension to make it
   >> a criticism of Dean Smith's teachings are a solitary point of light. 
    
    A "solitary point of light" in a vast wilderness of utter
    darkness.   Wouldn't we then be drawn to that light ???  Wouldn't
    it then be the *only* attraction in that void ???
    
    It would be the way out.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Bob, I don't know how you make the analogy to go from Don Nelson (and
    virtually every NBA scout, coach player, GM) to Jim Jones.  i see that
    as a major reach.
    
    The issue you have with Dean Smith was also a reach, one you're
    apparently wedded to.  You took a coaches press utterings, twisted them
    some to include a comdemnation of another coach, and then expected me
    to hail it as gospel.  I don't find the logic in that, and it's analogy
    to Nelson's opinion of Worthy, uttered the other night on national TV ,
    does not flow.
    
    Meanwhile, I drew an analogy between Dean and JR and Terry andRalph. 
    It's a lot cleaner.  You've failed to address it.
    
    Dan

    Dan,
    
    All I'm saying is that no one has to believe an "expert opinion"
    just because lots and lots of people believe it.  You've told me
    that Nelson's opinion of Worthy is the truth because "everyone"
    believes it.
    
    Well, "everyone" believed that Jim Jones had the big answer to the
    eternal salvation question.   But, as we know from the events, he
    sure didn't.   All those people who believed in his "truths" made
    a tragic mistake.
    
    Call it a reach if you want.  Sure, hoops is a lot less
    controversial than religious cults.  Just don't try and tell me
    that I have to believe Don Nelson because the majority believes
    him.  He had an opinion, that's all.  And, I *do* think he's
    right for that matter.  James Worthy is a superb player who excels
    in money time.
    
    And I'm not saying you have to believe Gene Littles.  But you and
    the other Hare Smithnas (tm) are caught between a rock and a hard
    place.   
    
    If you believe Gene Littles is correct, then Dean Smiith's
    curriculum doesn't quite cover all the basics.  
    
    If you choose to believe that Littles was just trying to blow some
    smoke up J.R.'s big ol' butt, than you have to concede that the
    Rev ain't the sacrosanct idol in North Carolina that you two think
    he is.   Because like it or not, Littles' words, in whatever
    context you choose, raise a question about J.R. Reid's tool box
    and its alleged gaps.  If Littles wanted to shake up J.R., he
    obviously didn't care much what the folks in Chapel Hill would
    say.   That doesn't indicate to me that a true "legend" sits in
    blue heaven.
    
    Bob Hunt

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (IAN LOVE, UPI Sports Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Knicks searching for answers

	NEW YORK (UPI) -- The New York Knicks, exposed to the nation over
the weekend as a team in turmoil, may press harder Wednesday to find an
answer to solving the Boston Celtics.
	New York is coming off a 157-128 shellacking by the Boston Celtics
and can be eliminated from the NBA playoffs with a loss at Madison
Square Garden Wednesday night.
	The Knicks, who won the Atlantic Division last year, were
thoroughly dominated in Game 2 of the best-of-five opening-round series.
The Celtics set an NBA playoff scoring record with their 157 points,
they also converted a record 67 percent of their shots from the field.
	So the first problem facing the Knicks is to shore up their
defense. Coach Stu Jackson is considering returning his team to the
all-out, helter-skelter press instituted under Rick Pitino last year.
	The Knicks abandoned that style for a more controlled press this
year designed to force teams out of their offense and into taking bad
shots. That clearly hasn't worked against the Celtics, who have broken
the Knicks press at will and shown a strong desire keep the ball moving
until they find the free man.
	``We have the advantage in overall team quickness,'' said New York
forward Kenny Walker. ``We may as well use it. We have to press them,
press them, and press them some more. They have not played like old men,
but we have to press them and see if they can continue to do so.''
	The Knicks have been shown up by the Celtics in all phases --
offense, defense, and overall team production. Their only hope now is
that hard work can narrow the gap between the two teams.
	``We have to suck it up, we have to do better and we have to look
at it that we can do better,'' New York guard Maurice Cheeks said.
	And while shutting down the Celtics will be the Knicks primary goal
Wednesday, the must also work on establishing themselves offensively.
Patrick Ewing was outplayed by the older Robert Parish, who constantly
pushed the New York center to the perimeter where he was less than
effective.
	``We owe them one,'' said New York guard Gerald Wilkins. ``They
embarrassed us on national television and I hope that Patrick is willing
to fight for his spot under the basket spot and not move outside.''
	Boston was almost perfect, they played like clockwork. This was
much worse than a blowout.
	After starting the season with such promise, the Knicks are now
left with winning a game to regain some self-respect. Long gone are the
thoughts of contending for an NBA championship.
	``Its about time that this pride that we talked about showed
itself,'' reserve Trent Tucker said. ``I think we can beat them, I don't
even want to think about that thing the other day.''
	Said Charles Oakley, who has been playing with his broken left
thumb in a soft cast: ``We owe it to ourselves to get with it. If we
played a good half why can't we play four quarters?''

    	Bird choked!

    	All I saw was the very end of the game.  After Cooz said "Don't
    worry if you're a Celtic fan, they'll be facing Detroit after they
    win game 4 tomorrow"... I immediately clicked the channel.
    
    sean

    Bob, my point, which you failed to address is as follows:
    
    We both acknowledge that JR could use a better screen and roll if his
    coach, if his coach says so.  You laid this baggage at Dean Smith's
    feet, pointing the accusing finger at a place where it doesn't
    necessarily go.
    
    We both acknowledge that Ralph Sampson has a plethora of faults as a
    basketball player.  You haven't pointed the accusing finger at Terry
    Holland.
    
    Why point it at Dean for his player, and leave Holland blameless for
    his?  It is unjust.
    
    Dan

    Why the hell is all of this in the Anti-Celtic note ?
    
    Start an anti-Smif' note !

   >> Why the hell is all of this in the Anti-Celtic note ?
    
    Well, we're *not* talking about the Celtics, now are we ???   So
    this is the right note.  :-) :-)
    
    Bob Hunt

    >You made the claim that Ralph Sampson had
    >shortcomings.  I asked you (politely, I might add) to share with
    >me what *you* think are these so-called shortcomings.   You have
    >completely ignored this request to date.   Until you do so, we
    >have nothing with which to agree or disagree.      
    
    This is T-like obfuscation.  The point of the question was not to
    detail or discuss Sampson's shortcomings, but rather to point out the
    inconsistency of freeing Holland of blame for them on the one hand and
    attempting to skewer Dean Smith for one of J.R. Reid's shortcomings as
    an NBA player.
    
    Frankly Bob, although you treat me like a raver and include me in your
    list of "Hare Smithna's" I am much less a Smith fan than you are
    a Smith foe.  Although neither is the coach of my favorite team in the
    sport, I think guys like Dean Smith and Joe Paterno are what college
    sports should be about.  If that makes me a raver, so be it.
    
    Your desire to hash out the details of "if Littles said Smith didn't
    teach him then does it mean that Smith didn't try?" doesn't really
    add anything.  I assume Smith tried, and I assume Reid had something of
    such a move, which Littles didn't think was up to snuff.
    
    So, with that, I'll leave you and MrT to peddle your accusations that
    Dean Smith doesn't teach fundamentals, secure in the knowledge that NBA
    scouts and coaches would get a real kick out it.
    
    Dan

    Take it to the ACC note!

No parade's this year.

It's time for the housecleaning to begin.

Hate to say it, but Larry must go now if the Celtics ever hope to regain
prominence in the next five years.   To Indiana for Schrempf and a first.

Bye-bye, DJ.  

    Well you can forget about trading Larry.  Red won't do it.  L.B.'s
    going to retire at the Gahden.  Even if you were going to trade him, I
    can't see how you're going to greatly improve the team with Schrempf
    and a first.  I like Detlef, but he's not a better player than Bird,
    and Indiana's number 1 is not a lottery pick, at least not this year's.
    
    I think the Celts would be better off dealing McHale, but again, Red
    has said that he will never trade Kevin, so I wouldn't expect to see
    the kind of major housecleaning you're looking for.  Expect to hear a
    lot of talk in the press this summer about how great Brian Shaw looks
    and how much he'll help turn the club around.  You'll know that it's
    going to be a long season if you start reading stories about how Bagley
    has lost weight and is coming into camp in the best shape of his
    career.
    
    Laker_Ken

I'd rather see Bagley go instead of Dennis.  Shaw comes back as the starter,
Johnson is his backup, and you draft another guard with the first round
pick.

I think Rodgers is history.  Red and Jan Volk did not look too pleased
walking off the court yesterday.

Mike

>I'd rather see Bagley go instead of Dennis.  Shaw comes back as the starter,
>Johnson is his backup, and you draft another guard with the first round
>pick.

I don't think DJ accepts a sub role very well and could become a nuisance
on the bench.    Let him go... along with Bagley and Paxson.

I think a Shaw/Lewis backcourt could rival Dallas' Blackman/Harper pair.

Assuming that the Celts could complete my wild trade of Bird for Schrempf
and a first:

Guards next year:  Shaw, Lewis, Charles Smith,first round pick, Gamble
Forwards        :  McHale,Schrempf,first round pick, Pinckney, M.Smith
Centers         :  Parrish, Kleine

This year's draft could be deep...  Time to get picks!   If Dennis Scott,
Larry Johnson, and Chris Jackson all come out, that makes it a very deep
draft.

Actually, from what I've heard this year's draft is supposed to be one
of the weakest in recent years.  Larry Johnson said immediately after
UNLV won the championship that he will definitely be returning for his
senior year.  Ditto for Stacey Augmon, although it wouldn't be the first
time that a college player has changed his mind at the last minute and
opted for hardship.  I thought that Chris Jackson had already indicated
that he will go in the draft.

Laker_Ken

>Actually, from what I've heard this year's draft is supposed to be one
>of the weakest in recent years.

Weaker than last year?   So weak that there won't be 18 quality players???
Just at the guards, I ca think of a half dozen NBA quality players...

It would be great for the Celts to get a #1 pick in the top 10 plus
their own.    

> Larry Johnson said immediately after
>UNLV won the championship that he will definitely be returning for his
>senior year.  Ditto for Stacey Augmon, although it wouldn't be the first

Rumors are that Tarkanian is talking to the Clippers about an NBA job.
If Tark goes, I'd bet a dollar that Johnson and Augmon go too.

Doug,

	You maybe right about DJ accepting a spot on the bench.  If
	he could, I'd like to see him help develop the future Celtic
	backcourt.  

	It's time to start planning for the Celtic teams 2-3 years
	down the road.  Robert, Larry and Kevin won't be around.

	RE UNLV - there were lots of stories about NCAA sanctions
	against the Rebs that maybe on the way.  If so, I'd see
	both Augmon and Johnson comming out.

Mike

Questions for the day:

Would you rather watch a Celtics team win without Bird or lose with him?

Must Larry be in a Celtics uniform for you to appreciate his talents?

Is there no deal for which you could say "Yes!" involving a trade of Bird?

Do the Celtics OWE Dennis Johnson anything in terms of a contract for next
year?   Would it be fair to release him to allow him to work his own deal?

If you were running an NBA team {let's call you "Red" for instance} and you
allowed your team to grow old without any backups in place and had a recent
history of poor draft choices, would you resign?

    	Unfortunately, Bird is as much a staple man to the Celtic's
    as Jordan is to the Bulls or Magic is to LA.  The Celtics fans will
    not, under any circumstances, allow him to be traded, IMO.  Like
    the LA fine during the last regular season game against Portland,
    the issue becomes more of a "fan" factor than "smart, business sense".
    
    sean

Does anybody know the exactly which pick Indiana has in the first round?
Is it 10 or 11?

    	Indiana would get the 13th pick, however, I believe a couple
    of years ago they traded this years first round pick for a couple
    of Dallas players, therefore, Indiana has no first round pick.
    
    sean

    Looks to me like the Celts got caught "looking ahead".  It also appears
    that nobody won Doc's contest ;-)
    
    Mike

    	Yeah, Riggen did.  Actually he and Ross predicted Game 5 losses,
    but only Riggen provided a score, so it looks like he is the winner?
    
    sean

           <<< OURGNG::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< OURGNG::SPORTS - Digital's daily tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 49.124                 Official Anti-Celtic Note                 124 of 183
LUNER::BROOKS "Child of the Revolutionary Generatio" 22 lines  27-APR-1990 13:51
                         -< Here is the scoreboard ! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          
These are the competitors for the contest ...

	    		Round       Team 	Games		Score
	    		-----       ---- 	-----           -----
(SAGE::ROSS).93		1st	    Knicks	  5		None given
(RSST6::RIGGEN).100	1st	    Knicks	  5		105-99
(RAVEN1::B_ADAMS).72   	East-Semis  Det.          4             110-87
(LEVERS::STROUT).78	2nd	    Detroit	  6		93-88
(AUNTB::HASS) .71   	Semis	    Detroit	  6		98-92
(REFINE::ASHE) .98	2nd	    Pistons	  6 		106-97
(STRATA::CAPPEL).107	2nd	    Pistons	  6		99-91
(GENRAL::GIBSON).108	2nd	    Pistons	  6		110-98
(ROCK::GRONOWSKI).109	2nd	    Pistons  	  7		102-84
(STAR::YANKOWSKAS).90 	NBA Finals  Lakers	  5		108-94	 
(UPWARD::HEISER).70	Finals      Suns*         7		110-101  
(CNTROL::CHILDS) .75 	Finals	    Houston*	  4		113-94

The * mean that the (silly) noter picked Boston to beat this team for the
title.

Good luck to all of our competitors - except for Heiser and Childs of course.
              

    Correct, Riggen is the winner by virtue of his score. A pity that
    Doug Ross didn't enter a score, or else he may have pulled it out.
    
    
    Anyhow, CONGRATS !!!!

Please forward all Cetlic betting losses to CX03-2/N10. 

I will be happy to laugh all the way to the bank with you folks. 

Jeff

But wait!!! I predicted a score.... and then later I changed it to
five games.  I originally thought it was a seven game series.

Do I win?  Do I win!?


              <<< Note 49.87 by SAGE::ROSS "Tumescence by Bird" >>>

Celtics go down in Round 1, game 6   113-104.  Ewing carries Knicks past
Celts.

Hopefully an early exit will lead to a massive overhaul.  Dallas
Mavericks are supposed to be looking to deal their first round
picks {I think they have three}.   McHale for a high would be fine.
Sam Perkins is also a free agent.    

May we only see DJ, Bagley, and Paxson for 6 more games.   

Next year:  Shaw, Lewis, Charles Smith and Gamble in the backcourt.

    	So, Doug picked a 9 point victory and Jeff picked a 6 point
    victory.  The actualy victory was 7 points.  What's the ruling?
    8^)

    Hmm.  Sounds like you was robbed Doug.  Lemme know if you need a good
    attorney!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    Here's the official roolz note.  All that was said was that the
    score entered would be used as a tie-breaker.  It did not say how
    the winner would be determined in a tie breaker situation, however.
                                                         
    
               <<< OURGNG::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< OURGNG::SPORTS - Digital's daily tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 49.69                  Official Anti-Celtic Note                  69 of 188
EARRTH::BROOKS "Sucker that stole the soul ..."      25 lines   5-APR-1990 15:36
                         -< Celtic elmination contest >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Okay people, here's the contest you've been waiting for :
    
    
    The "When Will The Celtics (Septics, Fungus, ect) Bite The Big One!"
    Contest !!!!!
    
    No entry fee required !
    
    Just enter the Round, the team, and the number of games you think
    it will take for the Septics to get dusted !
    
>>    As a tie breaker, give the score that the Greenies will get blasted
>>    by in the final game.
    
    Example :
    
    Round	Team 		Games		Score
    1		Bucks             4		125-95
    
    The winner will recieve a special NBA prize of the team of his choice.
    (No Celtic paraphanaila will be awarded.)
    
    Enter now !
    
    DrM

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (FREDERICK WATERMAN, UPI Sports Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Decline of the aging Celtics
Date: 7 May 90 23:16:19 GMT

	BOSTON (UPI) -- It is a foregone conclusion that Larry Bird, Robert
Parish, and Kevin McHale are going to the Basketball Hall of Fame. The
destiny of the Boston Celtics franchise is equally clear but not so
lofty.
	The NBA's winningest franchise has now been eliminated in the first
playoff round in consecutive seasons for the first time since 1951-52.
	By next December, Bird will be 34, Parish 37, McHale 33, and Dennis
Johnson 36. The Celtics bench has not been reliable or productive -- in
Sunday's Game 5 loss to the New York Knicks, Boston's reserves scored a
total of four points, all on foul shots -- and there appear to be no
stars-in-waiting on the Celtics bench.
	Whether the Celtics' decline has merely coincided with the two-year
reign of coach Jimmy Rodgers or been because of him is uncertain.
Rodgers' intelligence is unquestioned, but his team never developed one
reliable style.
	At mid-season, Bird was unhappy with his role because the offense
called for him to be out on the wing rather than inside where he prefers
to play and can get more rebounds and handle the ball more. But the
three-time MVP denies he has any problem with Rodgers.
	``Our relationship's good,'' Bird said after the Celtics'
post-season elimination. ``Some press started it all. I respect the man.
I respect all the coaches I ever had.''
	Bird said that playing for Rodgers has been an ``awesome
experience,'' and added, ``Of course I don't agree with everything, I
agree with 95 percent of it.''
	Asked whether a coaching change may take place, Bird responded:
``Jimmy Rodgers will be here long after Larry Bird's gone. Other players
will come in here and win championships and they'll forget about me.''
	Rodgers, asked about personnel changes, responded, ``We'll look at
every aspect of what this basketball team is all about and what it did
and didn't do. I'm not sure at this point what is to be done.''
	Since Bird arrived in Boston in 1979, the Celtics have won three
NBA crowns. Parish, McHale and Bird have played together for 10 seasons
and were each All-Stars this year, but it is Bird's effectiveness which
makes the difference between winning and losing. In the decisive fourth
quarter of Game 5, Bird hit only 1 of 6 shots and missed a reverse dunk
with 4:17 remaining that would have brought Boston within two points.
	``I made some real bonehead plays down the stretch,'' admitted
Bird. ``I'm as shocked as everyone else. This is the lowest I've felt
since I've been here.''
	Also hampering Boston's effort was a second-quarter injury to
McHale, who tore the planta fascia tendon in his left foot but was able
to continue playing. After the game, he was fitted with a removable
cast.
	This season, the Celtics won 52 games, an impressive total until it
is noted that 17 victories were over the league's four expansion teams
and perennial loser New Jersey.
	Next year, guard Brian Shaw will be back from his season in the
Italian League, and 6-foot-11 Yugoslavian Dino Radja will be eligible to
play with the Celtics, whose lone young star is swingman Reggie Lewis.
	The team's first-round draft pick is likely to be a guard because
Johnson is a free agent and may not return to Boston even if they choose
to offer him a contract. While Bird is probably a Celtic forever and
Parish would be hard to get even-value in return, every other player is
appears expendable.
	Reserve center Joe Kleine is the only non-starter nearly certain of
being a Celtic next season. The other substitutes: guards John Bagley,
John Paxson, Charles Smith and Kevin Gamble, and forwards Michael Smith
and Ed Pinckney, were minimal contributors.

Where's my prize !!!

I predicted a 6 point victory the winning margin was 7 points...


I want a Nuggets shirt Dr. Midnight

Jeff

    After careful consideration, I'm giving the award to ...
    
    
    NOBODY !!!!!!
    
    HAHAHHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    Seriously, Riggen is the winner, and I'll get with you on your gift.
    
    Congrats n your gutsy selection !
    
    DrM

    Someone in CELTICS just announced that Rodgers has been fired.
    
    Mike

    	I just heard it on CNN - Rogers has been fired.
    
    DG

Party in June 1991 

This is bound to help the Celtics I just hope they don't hire Mike Fratello(sp)

Jeff

    
    Somehow Jeff, that's what I fear will see. Hopefully they'll make a
    offer to Doug Collins that he can't refuse....
    
    mike

    	The ever predictable celtic management will put Chris Ford in
    the coaching spot.  Another temporary solution to a permanent problem.
         
    sean

Dr J is heavily involved in drug prevention programs, so I don't
think he'd be interested in coaching...

They're leaning towards Chris Ford...too bad....

Chainsaw

Re: The merits of Chris Ford

Who coaches this team is not the most important factor in rebounding
from the decline, in my opinion.  The Celts need to get players with
speed, and athletic ability.  The style of play in the NBA has changed
and the Celtics haven't kept up.

Look at last year's draft - Michael Smith is another in the Celtics
mold (which should be broken) jump shooter and decent passer.  Those
qualties are fine - but with no defensive or rebounding ability, you've
got a net liabilty out there on the floor.  They could have picked
Hardaway - someone with speed that can create a shot by driving the
lane.  The Celtics haven't had anyone like that since Tiny.

Trade Paxson, Bagley, Pinkney (if you can) for a draft pick or
someone who can come in and rebound and play defense.  Draft a
Dumars type guard - can shoot and play the point.  Shaw and the
draft pick is the future backcourt.  Lewis can be the small forward
and move to big guard also.  Time to prepare for the post Bird, McHale
and Parish era.

Mike

If Chris Ford is the answer, then the question must be, "Who would be
a worse coach than Jimmy Rodgers?"

Ford has ZERO NBA headcoaching experience... and zero headcoaching experience
whatsoever, I believe.    I swear that the Celts brass read the Globe to find
out what to do.

Go outside the "family."   Get a name coach.   I know this is wild, but
why not Jerry Tarkanian?   His game translates to the NBA very well... solid
man-to-man defense {and maybe he could hide Larry Johnson in his back pocket
:-) }   He wouldn't take any crap from Bird, McHale, or anybody.
How about Jack Ramsey?   Doug Collins would be acceptable, too.

Please... not Mike Fratello... I can't see any Celtc veteran respecting him.
Please... not K.C. Jones.
Please... not Kevin Loughery or Hubie Brown.

The moron on WRKO {John Carlson} was pushing for Larry Bird - player/coach
last night.   Yeah, right.   It worked so well for Dave Cowens.

    	Doug Collins is reportedly a very strict coach.  Do you think
    he would clash with Larry and co.?
    
    sean

    I find myself agreeing 100% with Mike McCarthy's note .202.  Until the
    Celtics develop a team that has the speed and athletic ability needed in
    today's NBA, they'll do no better than this year regardless of who is
    coaching.                    
    
    I hardly think that Jimmy Rogers was the greatest thing since sliced
    bread, but his firing appears to me to be a reaction without much
    thought...
    
    
    py 

    Loved Red's comment that the loss to Knicks had nothing to do with
    Jimmy getting the axe.  "This has nothing to do with New York" was his
    direct quote.
    
    Media obfuscation has reached new heights!  What does he think, we're
    all a bunch of fools?  Why not just come out and say day is night, or
    black is white?  George Orwell woulda been proud of Red.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    I think Ford would be a good long term fix for the Celtics.  They
    will go into the decline that will bring them a top draft pick faster.
    This team needs an infusion of young talent, and the slow decline
    they've been in for the last 2-3 years prevents that.
    
    Tarkanian?  Can you imagine the current Celtics running UNLV's offense?
    
    Bruce

>    black is white?  George Orwell woulda been proud of Red.
>    
>    
>    - ACC Chris

Red Auerbach has never had a problem distinguishing black from white.  :-(

>    Tarkanian?  Can you imagine the current Celtics running UNLV's offense?
>    
>    Bruce

Shaw, Lewis, Pinckney, Charles Smith, Parish could all do it... Somehow 
they'd have to squeeze Larry into the equation for a couple years.  Trade
Kevin for someone who could do it.   Draft someone else who could do it, too.

You'd still need a Kleine for banging...  everyone else can go.

    Rogers can't make McHale and especially Bird any quicker defensively.
    It's time for Auerbach to take a vacation.  Maybe bring Volk with him
    or allow him to be the lawyer that he really is.  
    
    I read a piece in the paper over the weekend where Red was giving a 
    coaching clinic prior to a game in the 60's.  He was stressing the 
    two-hand set shot to the kids, and said forget about the jump shot,
    the two-hand set was the better shot to learn and take.  Hello!
    The game is always changing but he does not.
    
    They'll probably hire somebody from within the family.  This somebody
    has already been set up to fail, unless they bring in some speed.  
    
    					Steve

    Jimmah got the axe, heh heh heh .... what a solution.
    
    1) The Greenies need to gag Red, put him out to pasture, geld him,
    whatever. The bottom line is simple - Red's last few drafts have
    done more to torpedo the Fungus than Jimmah could do onhis worst
    day.
    
    The simple fact of the matter is that the Celts do not have a NBA
    backcourt - at least not a NBA -title-contending backcourt. No speed,
    no quickness to speak of. Outside of Reggie, a marked inability to
    create shots without a set offense.
    
    Not only that, but these guys have progressed from old to anicent.
    And no help in sight. Jimmah did his best to integrate the old with
    the new, but you can't make a gormet dish out of Alpo.....
    
    The reality is simple - the coach is hardly the problem. Pat Riley
    may be able to win a title with this motley crew, but no one else.
    
    Until the Celts get a couple of guards that can be clocked in the
    40 with something besides an hourglass, the situation will onlyget
    worse, which of course will make me a happy camper.
    
    DrM
    
    p.s. Do you who was the last Celtic coach to lose two 1st round
    series in a row ?
    
    That's right, that stiff Red Aurebach.
    
    I wonder if he remembers that ?

    
    >p.s. Do you who was the last Celtic coach to lose two 1st round
    >series in a row ?
    
    >That's right, that stiff Red Aurebach.
    
    >I wonder if he remembers that ?


I dunno, after all it was over 30 years ago.  But I'm sure he remembers 
winning 11 titles in 13 years.


FWIW, I agree that he needs to be more open to change in order to re-vamp
the Celts and get them back to Championship form (they aren't even close now), 
but I fail to see how he could be justly called a "stiff".  Sour grapes???  I
guess we have to agree to disagree on this one...

Scott

    Everyone,except maybe the most green-glassed of green-glassed has
    known that the Celtics have needed backcourt help for a few years
    now.  They've stuck with DJ too long - happy to see his ratio of
    good games/bad games fall to the 1:20 range.  Yeah, he's a 'clutch'
    player.  Gag.  Meanwhile, they cling to the illusion, perpetuated
    by the media and their fans, of "Celtic Pride" and the "Genius of
    Red Auerbach".   They've watched a team age before their eyes, doing
    nothing.  They've relied on convenient excuses for the slide :
    What if Len Bias, What if Shaw hadn't gone..... All the while using
    the Red Method to pick up players like Micheal Smith - a tall white
    guy from Brigham Young, on a team heavy in front court folks.  The
    solution to to pick up the John Bagleys of the world, this years
    version of Ray Williams.   They start a lineup of old slowing,
    defensive liabilities inthe front court - though Parrish stil has
    more plusses than negatives.  A forward at guard, and the
    aforementioned Mr. Clutch - DJ.  They don't know how to effectively
    use a bench - trying to fool folks by moving McHale to the bench
    early on to give the illusion of having one.  
    
    
    They've waited, perhaps too long, to rebuild, hoping that Mr. Miracle,
    Red, will be able to trade a decrepit front line, along with a useless
    player, for Charles Barkley or Akeem....
    
    They've become more like the Red Sox with each passing year.  Afraid
    to take chances, happy with a bungling team and a useless coaching
    staff, because the fans flock in, and will continue, as long as
    the Great White Hope, #33, plays.  They make theplayoffs automatically,
    as most teams do, since NJ and Washington are 'rebuilding' and Atlanta
    is the the head case capital ot the NBA,and the expansion teams
    are horrible.
    
    I watched the Knicks of the late 60's early 70's go throught the
    same thing.  A team aging together.  useless draft choices.  Revolving
    door coaching.  The trading away of talent too late to help.  A
    decade plus of horrible play.  The Celtics are close to repeating
    the Knicks mistake.  If it happens, the Garden will empty.
    
    JD

    JD, what do you really think?
    
    Mark.

    JD, except for the fact that Parrish plays baseball and Parish plays
    basketball I agree with everything you said.  :-)
    
    re:  A few back.
    
    As coach, Red won 9 titles in 10 years, Bill Russell won 2 titles
    in 3 years, thus, the 11 titles in 13 years.
    
    John

    >re:  A few back.
    
    >As coach, Red won 9 titles in 10 years, Bill Russell won 2 titles
    >in 3 years, thus, the 11 titles in 13 years.
    
    >John

I stand corrected.  He is a stiff ;*)  (But wasn't he still in the front 
office??)

    
    yeah but you got admit that Rodgers paniced and that was his downfall.
    he develops this rotation during the year where he gave his players
    plenty of rest and then wham Bird and Mchale are playing 45 minutes
    a game during the playoffs. Coupled with the less than stellar record
    against .500 teams and you have the reasons why he's on his way out.
    
    Sorry to say this but Doug is absolutely correct that if they can move 
    Bird they must. His play has hindered Reggie Lewis' development and his
    salary makes it very tough for them to wheel and deal as they're over
    the cap. Denver has trouble putting fanny's in the seats perhaps Bird
    for "Fats"?
    
    mike

    Ah yes.  And Red 'coached' by the method of sitting back and letting
    superior talent win.  When a team ages, that method doesn't work
    as well.  KC used it also, of course, he was taught by Red.
    
    jd

    To borrow from a certain noter :
    
    Did Red ever win a title without Russell ?
    
    I thought not.
    
    JD, you do me proud, an excellent note. As long as the Greenies
    are content to fill their BYU quota, they can forget it.
    
    The C's fate was sealed when Smith was drafted. Case closed.

    >To borrow from a certain noter :
    
    >Did Red ever win a title without Russell ?
    
    >I thought not.
    
    Yeah, like I said I've been proved wrong and Red is a slouch who
has no place in basketball...He would have been no where without the teachings
of Bill Russell...There is no doubt he held the Celtics back from their full 
potential ever since he first showed up...The evidence is overwhelming...Quick,
someone burn the films and erase all the records so the NBA will no longer be 
tarnished by his history!!!!

Lots of 8^)'s

Scott

    Red Auerbach is probably the most overrated individual in the history
    of professional organized sports.   
    
    JD

    
    Has anyone ever seen Doug Flutie and Red together?  Could it be?
    Nah...  But I must admit, I've never seen Lou Gorman, Red, or
    RCaso together in the same place... they're probably all the same
    person... BLAM BLAM BLAM

    Not only is Red the most overrated figure in sports history, he
    actually believes his own hype. 
    
    Good for him, the look on his moon-shaped face (have you seen Red
    and Charlie Brown together at the same time ?) as the C-minus's
    bit the big one was priceless !
    
    AHHAHHAHA!!!!

You guys shouldn't speak in absolutes like that.

I can think of tons more people who are overrated in SPORTS history.

How bout that Fidrytch guy or whatever his name was.  I'm telling
ya, the way people talked about him, you'd have thought he was
the Second Coming.  Not that *I* did, mind you, cause I used to 
face Jesus in the old Jerusalem League.  The Guy had a mean
fastball he did, and his curve was pretty wicked too.  

Simon Peter used to play first base.  Between James, John, and 
Simon Peter, you'd better not have beat out any grounders with
a man on first and less than two out!  

And let's see, how else was there..well, we mentioned Doug Flutie.

And that Tony Eason feller.  I mean that guy...whatta stiff.  Makes
Elvis look like he's got the heebee-jeebees.


We won't discuss J.R. Reid...

How bout Sam Horn.  The way these people talked, ol Sam was the
reincarnation of the Babe himself.  Not really, cause I played
against the Babe in the old Home for WAYward Boys league.  Kid couldn't
hit then, nope, not a lick.  But he could pitch.  Pitched like a demon
he did.  He learned to hit one day from this old janitor at the home.
The rest, I guess was history...

So, I wouldn't call Red the "most overrated person" in sports history.
Sports goes back a long way...  I mean, in the Roman Prelates Basketball
League, when they drafted Pontius Pilate, they said the dude was gonna
be great.  Solid inside game, they said.  Said he'd wade right in
there and get it taken care of.  I mean they way they talked you'd
think he was an early combination of Barkley and Laimbeer...
The guy had just one problem though....he never liked to get his hands
dirty...just wouldn't go inside and commit...

So, there you have it... My Humble Opinion....
Chainsaw

    I gotta admit Red makes me ill.  Pat Riley just broke his playoff
    record for most W's and they interviewed him on ESPN.  
    
    His (only) comment?  Why, that they play more playoff games now than in
    his day!  
    
    Guy seems to generally lacking in the Class department.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    frank, are you on 'ludes.
    
    

       Hey Dock, did you know that Red is Jawn Thompson's (sic) hero?
                                     Denny

    
    The Celts wouldn't go after John Thompson... they need a guy that
    can coach and evaluate players...  Thompson showed a lack of both
    skills at the olympics...

    People, as you know, no man despises the Celtics more, but even
    I, The Doctor, must agree with the masses that ole Jimmah Rodgers
    got the shaft.
    
    The Fungi need a new coach. And not Crisp Ford - he was a joke as
    a player, and probably would be a bigger joke as a coach.
    
    More importantly, look at the man. We are in the Golden Age of the
    NBA, especially so for the coaches. Men such as Riley, Daly, Fratello,
    and others are bringing class to the NBA coaching ranks. It would
    be very much like Red Retroback to bring in a man whose hair looks
    like a well-worn mop, and who basically looks like your average
    displaced hippie. 
    
    Moreover, when one looks into the eyes of Chris Ford, what looks
    back at you ?
    
    Dan Quayle ?
    
    Therefore, I propose that the Celts get a a new breed of coach.
    
    A man who knows basketball.
    
    A man who could keep the C's good enough so that I have plenty of
    bash material.
    
    A man who would hold LDUC's on Red's monument.
    
    A man that even I, Celtic-basher-in-chief, can respect.
    
    A man who can digest the numbers of the game.
     
    And naturally, a man who would be answerable to the DEC community
    in general, and SPORTS in particular.
    
    Of course I speak of ....
    
    
    
    Steve Nazzaro.
    
    Yup  Nazz, you have been nominated.
    
    Now fulfill your destiny !
    
    (I can't wait to see the special defense you'll install for James
    Worthy ! heh heh heh ...)
    
    Dr M.

    
    JT's got it too good at Georgetown to leave for the NBA. Excellent
    recruiting year in and year out, a sizable contract I'm sure, job
    security, he's revered around DC and he gets away with his lack
    of offensive minded skills without a problem. If he came, he'd be
    out before his contract ran out. If they decide to dip into the
    college ranks than Vulvano is the guy they should go after. Jimmy
    does know how to win and is very good bench coach. Again something
    JT is not.......
    
    Collins is the man if they can lure him away from TV.....
    
    mike

    Gee Doc, thanks for the nomination, but I respectfully decline.
    
    When they can Jan Volk, though, I'm the man they need!
    
    NAZZ

>    out before his contract ran out. If they decide to dip into the
>    college ranks than Vulvano is the guy they should go after. Jimmy
>    does know how to win and is very good bench coach. Again something

Plus Valvano's had experience coaching "professional" athletes.  :-)

    Actually Coach/GM is what I had in mind Steve ...
    
    Take the job dude, don't get greedy !
    
    Then that puke-green sweater that you like to wear can become part
    of Celtic lore (gag) .... :-)

Very rarely do I venture into these debates concerning the Celtics.

I'm a Celts fan and have been for years.  So here's a couple of
my humble opinions, for whatever they are worth...

First, Rogers, while pretty inept as a coach did get the shaft.
Most of the sportscasters in this area are saying the same thing.
To me, it smacked of the kind of thing that George Steinbrenner would
do (ie a blind lashing out to supposedly set an example...)

The Celts truly need a good coach.  Not being a tremendous basketball
follower, I couldn't come up with a name, but they need someone
who will provide the leadership and forge a team again.

But the Celts also have to vastly change the complexion of their
team.  The Celts used to be able to run.  They could run with the
best of them.  Unfortunately 30+ year old legs don't run like they
did when they were 25...(don't I know that from experience!).

Regardless of what others may feel about Larry Bird, I feel he is
a tremendous asset to the team, if only for the fact that his work
ethic is unmatched.  He could be a great influence to younger players
on the team.  He should definitely stay.  While in the twilight of
his career, no doubt he will still have flashes of brilliance, but
I feel that his day-in day-out saviour heroics are over.

With the injection of some fast youth, that can defend and clear out
the boards, the Celts can rebuild what they've lost in the last
4 or 5 years.

The big question in the equation is Red....

The Celts have a lot of pride, and the humiliation at the hands of the
Knicks is really a good thing, because it should show them what they
have to do to regain their winning ways...

JMHO, 
Chainsaw

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (JOHN P. GREGG)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Celtics fire Rodgers
Date: 9 May 90 00:36:43 GMT
 
 
	BOSTON (UPI) -- Jimmy Rodgers, who led the Boston Celtics to their
worst consecutive playoff showings in 38 years, was fired Tuesday after
just two years as head coach of the NBA's winningest franchise.
	``This was a decision made by upper management and ownership,''
said Celtics General Manager Jan Volk, who broke the news by telephone
to Rodgers, a close friend. ``He didn't win. He wasn't able to do that.
He wasn't able to translate what he wanted to do into success on the
court. It's as simple as that.''
	``This is a tough decision to be made. It's something that had to
be done,'' said Volk, adding that it was not a ``scapegoat situation.''
	Rodgers was not available for comment.
	The Celtics also dismissed assistant coach Lanny Van Eman Tuesday,
and said assistant coach Chris Ford would be considered for the head
coaching job.
	The firings came just two days after the Celtics were ousted from
the opening round of the Eastern Conference playoffs by the New York
Knicks after leading the best-of-five series, 2-0.
	``This is the result of the last few days,'' said Celtics co-owner
Alan Cohen. ``Obviously, it has been something we have been considering.
We felt it was appropriate to take action in the next few days in
Jimmy's interest so that Jimmy isn't twisting in the wind.''
	The Celtics, who have won 16 league championships, were also
eliminated in the first round of post-season play in 1989. While the
team had failed to make the playoffs some years, Boston had not suffered
back-to-back, opening-round elimination since 1951-52.
	``I'm shocked, surprised. I thought that would be the last thing to
happen,'' said veteran center Robert Parish. ``But you never know in
this business, you have to learn to expect the unexpected.
	``Personally, I don't think you can point the finger at the coach,
because the coach was not making that many mistakes and missing the
shots. I expected a roster shake-up as far as players go, but I didn't
expect the coach to be let go,'' Parish said.
	Rodgers, 47, spent 17 years as an assistant coach and scout in the
NBA, succeeding K.C. Jones as head coach of the Celtics in the spring of
1988. He came to Boston in 1980, accompanying Bill Fitch when the
Cleveland coach left the Cavaliers to take over the Celtics job.
	``I feel really bad for Jimmy. He really paid his dues to get a
head (coaching) job,'' said forward Kevin McHale. ``I knew they were
going to do something. I didn't know it was going to be this soon.''
	The normally easy-going Rodgers showed the strain of Boston's
struggles during the 1989-90 season, occasionally snapping at reporters.
	In Rodgers' first season as head coach, three-time MVP Larry Bird
was lost to injury after just six regular-season games. Bird underwent
heel surgery and did not play again that season as his teammates
compiled a 42-40 record and were swept by the Detroit Pistons in the
opening round of the playoffs.
	This season, with a healthy Bird, the Celtics were 52-30 but again
were first-round playoff losers. In falling to the Knicks, the Celtics
became just the third team in NBA history to lose a five-game series
after winning the first two contests.
	Rodgers tried to implement an up-tempo offense and Boston struggled
through the first half of the season barely over the 500-mark. Players
were in favor of the half-court offense, which Boston used while winning
three NBA titles since Bird joined the team in 1979.
	Despite what many perceived as grumbling from Bird about Rodgers
early in the season, Celtics officials said the franchise player had
nothing to do with Rodgers' firing.
	``Larry had nothing to do with it,'' said Red Auerbach, the team's
president. ``Larry never, ever talked ill about any coach.''
	After Sunday's loss to New York, Bird, himself, said he believed
Rodgers' job was safe and denied there was a clash of wills regarding
the best offensive strategy.
	``Our relationship's good,'' Bird said. ``Some press started it
all. I respect the man. I respect all the coaches I ever had.''
	Ford, a former Celtics guard and assistant coach since 1983, was
demanding of the players in practice and would verbally prod the veteran
team.
	Parish said players ``respect Chris Ford as a coach, and we respect
what he's done and his knowledge for the game.''
	Volk, who refused to name any other candidates to replace Rodgers,
said it was a ``realistic possibilty'' that Ford would be promoted.
	``If he's named as the coach, it would be because we feel very
confident that he's the best available,'' Volk said.
    

    
    The C's front office says he's not choice, but K.C. Jones asked
    that his name be withdrawn  from consideration for the Atlanta 
    head coach yesterday.
    
    -Dick
    

    What about Heinsohn?  He won't be with CBS anymore.... certainly
    has seen enough teams around the league...
    
    Rodgers got hosed, plain and simple.
    
    Red is definitely overrated.  I don't think Fidrych was, he just
    had arm trouble, and that made him go down hill.... he was great
    to watch though...
    
    

From: clarinews@clarinet.com
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Celtics pursue Gavitt
Date: 14 May 90 22:13:39 GMT
 
 
	PROVIDENCE, R.I. (UPI) -- The Boston Celtics are pursuing Big East
Commissioner Dave Gavitt to become the club's head of basketball
operations.
	Gavitt, one of the most powerful figures in college basketball, was
at work at his Big East office Monday, but chose not to comment.
	``He has found that in this kind of a situtation if you say
anything to one person you can open a Pandora's box so he is not going
to say anything at this point,'' said Big East spokeswoman Chris
Plonsky.
	On Sunday, NBC asked Celtics President Red Auerbach to respond to
reports Gavitt had been offered the job as head of basketball
operations.
	``Well, there's a lot of fact to it,'' Auerbach said. ``We just
hope that he'll accept it, and if he does you see he'll run the whole
thing, but of course he'll run things by us.''
	Auerbach said he was ``not terribly sure'' whether he would remain
in charge of players and other personnel.
	``I'm still the president and all the decisions will have to run
through me,'' he said. ``And, of course, you have a couple of owners who
really know the game in Don Gaston and Alan Cohen, so between the three
of us I think we'll make most of the decisions.''
	The Celtics were eliminated by the Knicks in first round of the NBA
playoffs and last week fired Coach Jimmy Rodgers.
	Gavitt, 52, has run the Big East since it was formed in 1979 and
helped make it one of the premier basketball conferences. Under his
leadership, the conference produced two NCAA basketball championships,
eight Final Four appearances and lucrative television deals.
	Before the Big East, Gavitt coached Providence College to eight
20-win seasons in 10 years and led the team to the Final Four in 1973.
	He retired as coach in 1979 but stayed on as athletic director.
Gavitt gave up that job in 1982 and his title with the Big East changed
from acting commissioner to commissioner.
	Last October, he was named president of USA Basketball, a national
governing body, and is working toward assimilating pro players into the
U.S. national team program for the 1992 Barcelona Olympics.

It's a little late, but I thought someone might appreciate the following,
lifted from NY's NEWSDAY, 5/10/90:

	"Two days after the Celtics became only the 3rd team to blow
	 a 2-0 lead in a best-of-5 playoff series, Jimmy Rodgers, the
	 man who was 'totally' responsible for the collapse, was fired.

	 It seems safe to conclude that 'Celtic Pride' had been damaged...
	 (they) did not appreciate entering the record books in such a
	 humiliating way.

	 Was firing (Rodgers) appropriate ?  The Celtics should have considered
	 something less drastic.  Maybe if they put him on a strenuous off-
	 season program of running and weight-lifting, Rodgers could have
	 handled Ewing next year.

	 Instead, the team that once was so proud of its forward-thinking
	 image stabbed him in the back.  And even if Rodgers deserved to
	 be fired, the Celtics deserve to be criticized because if he
	 wasn't the coach they thought he'd be, they should have known
	 it...he was a Celtics assistant for 9 years.

	 Rodgers certainly was not perfect.  In his 9 yrs as an assistant,
	 he helped implement systems of 1/2-court and free-style basket-
	 ball that took advantage of Bird's creativity.  But when he
	 became head coach he drastically chgd the system, and got caught
	 up in calling every play....Bird complained about it publicly, and
	 one NBA coach said, 'that wasn't too smart...he should have
	 realized that he needed to have Bird on his side.'

	 Even that mistake is not as big as some made by the Celtics'
	 front office...allowing Brian Shaw to sign with an Italian
	 team...choosing Michael Smith over Tim Hardaway...and it an
	 NBA source says that Auerbach turned down a deal that would
	 have sent Kevin McHale to Dallas for Detlef Schrempf, Sam Perkins
	 and a No.1 pick.

	 It seems absurd for a man who directed a team to 52 victories
	 to be fired, but absurdities seem to be a big part of Celtics
	 Tradition right now.  The Knicks made the Celtics look absurd
	 on the court.  Off the court, the Celtics did the job by
	 themselves."

    re .241
    
    That was an *excellent* note Joe !
    
    Thanks for making my weekend !
    
    Doc

       Hey Dock, how are your 'teams' doing so far?
                                         Denny

    Denny, back, off...we all that Doc is a long time fan of both Portland
    and Detriot (tm).
    
    Mark.

    Yeah, Denny .... why don't you finish that porcelain altar to Dave
    Gavitt. It seems appropriate, since the C-minus' are heading straight
    down the toliet !
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!!

    There's only 2 teams out of the toilet right now, neither of which are
    your teams Doc.
    
    At least last I heard they weren't.

>                     -< Hey Joe, how 'dem Yanks? :-) :-) >-

I can get plenty of seats to see them at The Stadium.  Just like I'll
soon be able to plenty of seats to see NBA games at Boston Garden.


Joe

    That didn't take long.  Gavitt and Red already had their first
    difference of opinion over Eliot Abrams (Coach K).  Red said no, let's
    show some loyalty to that loser, Chris Ford.  Gavitt said I don't want
    a yes man with the green blood.  Abrams walked.  Red wins round 1.
    
    Dan

    The article I read said that Coach K decided he didn't want to leave
    Duke.  It didn't say anything about the Celts not wanting him.

    I heard on the 12:00 news that K had his news conference, turned down
    the offer and said he did'nt want to get involved in a power strugle
    between Red and Gavitt.

       Hey Dan, you seem to think it's bad for the Celtics to hire 'from
    within'. What is your opinion of teams like the Yankees hiring folks
    like Yogi, Bucky, Lou, Billy, etc (to infinity)? Or is that ok because
    they're 'your team'?
                                      Denny

    You got it, Denny!  :*)
    
    Lee

Celtics made a most egregious error yesterday...

They named Chris Ford as head coach.

Maybe Red and Steinbrenner should get together, because they both
are making about the same "smart" decisions....

'Saw

    Auerbach and Steinbrenner are not even in the same book never mind the
    same page.  One has ruined a once great franchise, while the other
    built one.
    
    					Steve

Agreed Steve, (really), however I'm just so damn frustrated!

The Celts had a chance to find a quality coach (and Lord knows they're
out there) but it seems that Red's good old boy network scarfed up
another one....

I'm really disappointed.  I knew they'd do this, but I couldn't really
believe it would happen....

Oh well....
'Saw

    
    Ford has not been named yet.

    Actually, I'm not so sure that Coach K would've been the right person
    for the job, even over Chris Ford.  Hey, maybe Ford can do something
    with this team after "living" with the last 2.......

    	As a Celtic fan I am glad the team didn't hire coach Kchokezewski
    away from the land of excellent losses.
    
    				/Don

    
    What's the poop on Ford? I don't know anything about him.
    
                                         HOOT
    

Radio report I heard on the way in said he'd been named...

'Saw

    Chris Ford graduated from Villanova in 1973, played six seasons with
    Detroit and four with the Celtics.  Was a heady shooting guard.  Scored
    the first 3-point field goal in NBA history.  Joined the Celtics
    coaching staff in 1983.  Was known to run most of the practices.
    Didn't take any shit from anybody.  Made the superstars work as
    hard as the scrubs.  This earned him a lot of respect from the players,
    and may explain why so many came out in support of him as the next 
    coach.  Is known for his substantial knowledge of NBA defenses.
    
    NAZZ

       Yeah, but he has 'green blood' Nazz!!
       I agree with slasher, I'm glad 'K' isn't coming. I think Ford will
    be fine. 
                                              Denny

    >Hey Dan, you seem to think it's bad for the Celtics to hire 'from
    >within'.
    
    I don't know where you got that impression.  It certainly wasn't from
    anything I wrote.
    
    >What is your opinion of teams like the Yankees hiring folks
    >like Yogi, Bucky, Lou, Billy, etc (to infinity)? Or is that ok because
    >they're 'your team'?
    
    Can you explain what this has to do with the topic?
    
    Dan

    >What's the poop on Ford? I don't know anything about him.
    
    I'm pretty sure he got his start as a mediocre guard in the ABA.  He
    played on some awful Detroit teams in the late 70s and was still
    mediocre.  As his skills continued to decline, the Celtics grabbed him,
    and while they won the championship in 1981, Ford distinguished himself
    as the worst starting guard in the NBA, whose only real skill was the
    three point shot.
    
    His playing days over, the Celtics rewarded his loyalty and made him an
    assistant coach under Fitch, where his primary duty was barking at the
    refs about foul calls.  He's been doing that for a long time now,
    though I guess his role has expanded.
    
    He's being rewarded for being around a long time.
    
    Dan

    It has to do with the impression that it is wrong for the Celtics
    to hire from within but right for the Yankees to do so, I believe.
    
    John

    Well Dan, I guess that'll make ML Carr the next coach of the Septics
    ....

    >It has to do with the impression that it is wrong for the Celtics
    >to hire from within
    
    But John, I never said anything of the kind.  Is criticism of Ford food
    for a false impression?
    
    Dan

It really doesn't matter who coaches the Celts, IMHO.  If the Celtics hire
a whiz bang defensive genius and don't get some real horses in here, do
you think the Celtics will do any better next year?  I don't.  

It's time to start the rebuilding process.  Not when Robert, Kevin, and
Larry all hang them up.

I'd trade McHale for a number 1 and a player.  Dallas has three #1 picks.
I  don't think they want to pay 3 first round salaries.  Bring in their
first round pick from last year, Randy White.  He wouldn't have to score.
Just bang the boards.  With Bird, Shaw, Lewis, and Parish out there, White
won't see the ball unless he gets the offensive rebound.

Draft a Dumars clone - can run the offense and score.  That will allow 
Lewis to spend some time at small forward, preparing for the post Larry
years.

Mike

    Dan, I never meant to imply that you gave that impression.  Someone
    believes you gave it.  That someone, believing you gave that
    impression, was trying to perhaps rattle your cage under the old
    "you can't have it both ways" theory.  In other words, if it's wrong
    for the Celtics to hire from within then it's wrong for the Yankees
    to do the same.  If it's OK for the Yankees then it has to be OK
    for the Celtics.
    
    John

    Thanks for explaining your theory on the case of the Poorly Jumped to
    Conclusion.  Might I suggest that instead of wasting any energy
    explaining to me what Conclusion was Poorly Jumped to, that you explain
    to that certain someone why he so Poorly Jumped to a false Conclusion.
    
    Dan

     <<< Note 49.249 by WNDMLL::SCHNEIDER "Say, who's the barber here?" >>>
                           -< Is gavitt handcuffed? >-

   > That didn't take long.  Gavitt and Red already had their first
   > difference of opinion over Eliot Abrams (Coach K).  Red said no, let's
   > show some loyalty to that loser, Chris Ford.  Gavitt said I don't want
   > a yes man with the green blood.  Abrams walked.  Red wins round 1.
   > 
   > Dan
       How's this? Loyalty, yes man, green blood.
    Since when does a guy have to be a star to be a coach? Care to list
    all the NBA records Pat Riley set as a player?
                                          Denny

    Since when does a guy have to be a star to be a coach? 
    
    I've never made any such claim.
    
    >Care to list
    >all the NBA records Pat Riley set as a player?
    
    Instead of continuing to badger me with stupid questions, why don't we
    return to this subject in 9 years, and then we'll compare Riley's and
    Ford's coaching records.
    
    Dan

	Re: Dan S on Chris Ford

    >I'm pretty sure he got his start as a mediocre guard in the ABA.

	You may be pretty sure, but I'm positive you are wrong! :-) Ford
Graduated from Villanova in 72. Played for Detroit from 72-72 to 78-79, then
with the Celtics from 78-79 until his retirement in 1982. 


    >His playing days over, the Celtics rewarded his loyalty and made him an
    >assistant coach under Fitch...

	Sorry, wrong again. Ford was never an assistant under Fitch. After his
retirement, Ford spent a brief time as an assistant coach at Boston College. It
was only after Fitch was history that KC Jones offered Ford the Assistant
Coach job in the 83-84 season.

	Now for some real info on Ford, as opposed to the mis-information
and anti-Celtic emotional-slander you got from Dan... :-)

	I don't have Ford's career stats, but in his for years as a Celtic he
averaged 10.3 Ppg and shot .456 from the field. He was known arround the league
as being a 'solid' defensive player, despite being slow-of-foot. His only 
offense was the long range jumper. Chris Ford hit the first ever NBA Three
Point Shot in the regular season.

JimH

	Those damn Lakers beat the Celtics to the punch again!!! They went a
head and hired a mediocre-guard-turned-assistant-coach-who's-only-job-the-
last-few-years-was-to-bark-at-refs-on-foul-calls as their head coach. Now
they'll be saying that the Celtics stole the Lakers' idea when they hire
Chris Ford!!!

	Unless they hire Pat Riley instead.... :-(

	So when are we going to hear Dan wax eloquently on the virtue of
Mike Dunleavy???  Hell, Dunleavy is already the leading candidate for
Coach of the Year in 1991!!!

JimH :-)

Mike Dunleavy - the Fratello of the 90's

I'm telling you, I've said it before, the Lakers are on the same path
as the Celts, but only two years behind.  Dunleavy = Jimmy Rodgers.
This year will see a major injury {Magic/Worthy/or Scott&Green} cripple
the team....  Next year, Dunleavy will be fired.

Get your Clipper tickets now... they'll be the hot team in LA.

    He certainly is.
    
    John

       Yeah, but he aint got purple blood!
                                          Denny

    The Celts have not named a head coach yet.  Chris Ford is just one of
    the leading candidates (at least according to my paper).

    I wonder if Celtic fans could possibly be satisfied with the goings on? 
    Last week the rift between Auerbach and Gavitt was most apparent. 
    Naturally, Red denies it, and so the story goes away.  But let's take a
    logical look.
    
    * Gavitt certainly wanted Coach K.  That was obvious.
    
    * Coach K was certainly considering things, as evidenced by meeting
    with Gavitt and then going to DC and meeting with Red.
    
    * Coach K says he would only take the job IF everyone there wants him
    (meaning obviously Gavitt and Red).
    
    * Rumors of offer being made circulate.
    
    * Coach K says thumbs down to Celtics.  Makes noise about differences
    in front office. (Possible ploy to make Dook fork over more dough.)
    
    * Ford still twists in the wind.  Gets interviewed by Gavitt.
    
    * Obvious conclusion that FOrd is Red's man and he didn't want Coach K
    is circulated.
    
    * Red denies everything and his mother.
    
    * New rumors that Ford will be hired.
    
    Now, if you were Gavitt, and you've been in the college game for years
    and know everyone, and you're given a job in the pros - you're first
    job is to hire a coach because the last one was made a scapegoat for a
    playoff choke job.  So you think about it for a few days, and decide
    the Celtics need new blood and reach into your rich past to find the
    right guy and choose a coach.  Okay, so the patriarch of the
    organization disagrees with your choice and you get shot down.
    
    What do you do next?
    
    Somehow Chris Ford doesn't leap to mind.  There is no way on earth that
    Ford is Gavitt's choice, or else he would have never bothered with
    Coach K.  
    
    We don't need to be told who has called this ill-conceived shot,
    despite denials in the media to the contrary.
    
    Dan

    Rich who?
    
    Lee

 Ah Dan you'r enuts Coach K. was just playing up to Gavitt cause
 he wanted to increase his pay at Duke and get the Oylmpic job
 that Gavitt can give him. Fortunately Red saw through the charade
 and nicks the deal....

;^)

mike

    Dan, you hit the nail on the head with your summary.  I think that
    Red has to face the fact that he has lost his Midas touch. He is
    so out of touch with reality that the Celtics are deep trouble as
    long as he stays at the helm.
    
    Ford might be the player's choice, but what happens when the team
    hits a losing streak ?  They will turn against him regardless if
    he is a nice guy or not. Basketball players are a bunch of babies,
    they want the glory when the team wins, but blame the coach when
    it loses.  Ford should stick as an assistant, at least until Bird,
    McHale, and Parish are gone.  Those three players could make Ford
    look like Superman, but could also get him fired.

	Dan, its obvious to everybody but you that Coach K didn't have the
Cahunas to leave his nice safe little job at Duke, and step up to take
chance at coaching in the big leagues!!!

	I do have to admit I enjoyed reading you little piece of mystery-
suspense fiction you posted back in Reply .284! You didn't do any ghost
writing for Twin Peaks did you??? I recognize the style!!! :-)

JimH

    Dan's right.  Red is finished.  I hope he lives to be 300.  Cause
    I KNOW THE CELTICS WILL NEVER, EVER WIN ANOTHER CHAMPEENSHIP WHILE
    RED CABBAGE IS ALIVE!!!  
    
    Of course, if Red does live to be 300, the celtics starting point
    guard will still be DJ....
    
    JD

    It's official.  Chris Ford has been named as the head coach of the
    Celtics.

From: clarinews@clarinet.com
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Rome club reportedly courting Celtics' Brown; Shaw in contempt

	BOSTON (UPI) -- The Italian basketball team that has been engaged in
a tug of war with the Celtics over guard Brian Shaw has also made an
unsuccessful effort to recruit No. 1 Boston draft pick Dee Brown, a
report said Saturday.
	Meanwhile, Shaw faced $10,000 in fines after taking no action on
contempt charges handed down after he refused to honor a judge's order
that he disavow his contract with Il Messaggero of Rome and rejoin the
Celtics.
	Steve Zucker, an agent representing Jacksonville product Brown,
told The Boston Globe he was contacted by someone purporting to
represent Il Messaggero on Thursday.
	Sources told the newspaper the caller was Jerome Stanley, who
represents Shaw, although Stanley vehemently denied it was him. Zucker
said Brown, who has yet to sign with Boston, rejected the alleged
overture immediately.
	``All I can say is we were approached to do something by Il
Messaggero and that we had no interest. I called Dee immediately and he
said to let Boston know about the call -- and to tell the other people,
`No way,''' Zucker said.
	An attorney for the Italian team categorically denied that the team
ever approached Brown.
	Shaw was officially in contempt as of midnight Friday after he
refused to notify Il Messaggaro that he was nullifying the deal. Shaw,
who signed with the Celtics in the winter while still on contract in
Italy, was brought to court by the Celtics after saying he wished to
keep playing for Il Messaggaro.
	Shaw's lawyer, calling it ``an expensive weekend,'' said her client
was standing firm in the face of $5,000-a-day fines that could top $1.8
million if he sat out a year.
	``I'd say his resolve is still strong,'' said Laura Carroll. ``I
haven't gotten any indication that it isn't and I'm looking for that. I
have never had a client in contempt before.''

    I hope that Shaw's stubbornness lasts a year- he be a broke loser!
    
    I like this kid Dee Brown.  There was an article in last night's paper
    about him and how he just plain wants to play ball for no one but the
    Celts regardless of how much more anyone's willing to pay.  Nowadays,
    you would suspect a kid like this to turn to greed after a few years
    and a few mil, but somehow, I see this kid as being different and
    sincere.  We'll see though......
    
    Hawk

    Heard on WBZ radio last night that Shaw is in the process of notifying
    Ill Meessathings that he won't bplay in Italy nexted year.
    
    The report also said that Shaw stated that "He'd never play for
    the Celtics...."

Send him to the Hornets! Straight up for Kelly Tripucka!

TTom

    While Shaw's trade worth is very low, you gotta think that all other
    teams are thinking cautiously in picking him up.  What's to stop him
    from pulling this same bull after signing with another team?  Once a
    head case, always a head case, ususally......
    
    Hawk

    No matter how low Shaw's trade value may be, he's gotta be worth more
    than Kelly Tripucka!!!!!!!!!
    
    NAZZ

I'd just love to see Kelly Tripuka in a Celtics uniform.   Man, could 
we have fun with that one!

Laker_Ken

    > I'd love to see Kelly Tripuka in a Celtics uniform.  Man, could
    > we have fun with that!
    
    Yeah, especially when he burns Byron Scott over and over.........
    
    :-)
    
    Hawk

    re .297
    
    Hawk, since we don't know what has been said behind the scenes, there
    is no telling why Shaw is doing what he's doing. The C-minus' have been
    awfully quiet about this case too .... why ? Usually, the Green
    Propaganda Machine will have a lot of "We was fair to Brian, etc"
    crapola out under these circumstances .... but they've been about as
    quiet as Brian. 
    
    Why ?
    
    I think too many people are too quick to use silly labels like "head
    case" .... (nothing personal Hawk)
    
    As for Brown, his attitude may warm the hearts of fans, but it don't
    pay da bills .... :-) This is a business. Period. Loyalty is often a
    one-way street, and the bottom line is the dollar. Don't call the
    'kids' greedy for being as business-minded as the owners ....

    RE: Shaw
    
         Shaughnessy hit it on the head.  The kid is a weasel.

    Doc, I hear ya, sort of.......
    
    However, without knowing the inside scoop, we do know that (1) Shaw
    only played 1 NBA season, hardly proving himself a capable backup, let
    alone starter like is needed and (2) he signs a very handsome $1.2 mil
    contract.
    
    So, where is Shaw shafted?
    
    Hawk

    We may never know what's in his mind.  Until Shaw gives his side of the
    story, I'll just shrug my shoulders.  He's had a chance to tell his
    side of the story in court, and he declined, which as a fan of the
    Celtics does tend to piss me off.
    
    He met with Chris Ford once last week, and once this week.  The only
    rumor I've heard is that he does not at all like the way he was
    treated by co-owner Alan Cohen.  Until he clears up his image, he'll be
    booed lustily by the Boston fans.
    
    Then there is the rumor of he and Parish going to Seattle...Seattle
    doesn't need another point guard.  Another rumor has him going to
    Sacramento for Ainge.  I don't know if this was a joke or not.
    
    					Steve

    Mike Childs,
    
    You continually bash Roger Clemens, the best pitcher the Red Sox have
    had in my 33 years of watching them.  I'd like to hear your opinions on
    Brian Shaw, and also the carnival-like happenings that Reggie Lewis 
    put on for the "Boston faithful" yesterday.
    
    					Steve

    agents! They  suck, of course i dont think much Of shaw..  i cant
    really  explain the lewis situation, at 630  sports hes not signing,
    
    watch  1120 sports, hes signed a 5 yr  deal..  well, at least he
    signed..  For brian shaw, i hope he gets fat on pasta over there!
    
    
    dinz
    

    Regarding Lewis 
    
    
    
    Why ...what happened.......what next....those are the questions.
    
    
    The real reason for Lewis' change of heart.......
    
                  PICK ONE
    
    	1. Some of my realatives from the shady side of Boston, the ones
    	   with the funny violin cases paid him a visit.
    
        2. Lewis was setting up the sportscasters to make them look like
           bigger boobs than they already are.
    
        3. Lewis was helping Shaw. Stanley got a commitment from the
           Celtics that Shaw would be traded, so Lewis signed. (Staying
           where he wanted to be.)
    
        
    
    
    Lou  

 Steve, I'm very happy that Lewis signed. I didn't see any news highlights
 yesterday so I really can't comment on this carnival like atmosphere that
 you mentioned. I don't know the details of the contract but do feel that
 whatever it cost them it was worth it. I just feel bad for Reggie cause
 if he played for a team that really was committed to running he'd be a
 superstar. Of course if the Celtics traded Bird or he retired abruptly
 Lewis would probably become a superstar right here.

 Shaw is a different matter. I do feel that the Celtics took advantage of
 him. If Shaw reaches his full potential and given that he looked on the way
 to doing just that then the last three years of his contract he would have
 been vastly underpaid. The fact that the Jan Volk flew over with a suitcase
 full of sommolies for him I think proves my case. Bottom line though is Shaw
 is an adult and made the decision by himself to forgo legal consultation
 and should be made to honor his contract. Celts shouldn't have gone to court
 but made an agreement with Shaw that if he reached certain incentives they
 would rip up his contract after two years and write a new one. Right now I
 think that the wounds are too deep and if the Lakers still want to trade
 us Scott for Shaw straight up we should jump at it....

 and I'd venture to say had he not broken his leg and screwed his career
 Clemens would be chasing some big numbers put up by Jim Lonborg....

mike

    no doubt mike, lonborg would have won many many games...
    
    
    dinz

    But Mike, what if the size of the plate when Roger Clemens pitches were
    the sames size as the plate when Wade Boggs was up at bat?  Who'd have
    more wins: Clemens or Lonborg, with the broken leg?
    
    Dan

Ah Dan come on now give a toughie the answer so obvious to that one that
Jim could have broken both of his legs  ;^)

more importantly what do you hear about the Shaw for Scott deal? and what
are your feelings on this? I think I remember you being for it based on
Shaw's youth advantage but naturally over valuing the Lakers you wanted
another player or draft pick thrown into the deal???

mike

    Yes, the Lakers don't get enough in a Shaw for Scott deal.  Scott plays
    his role well, if he does spring back from the hamstring problem. 
    Shaws got the years on him and he is versatile in that he has some
    passing and rebounding skills that Scott doesn't.  But he doesn't drain
    from the outside either.  And now, besides missing a year of NBA ball,
    he has all this other baggage.  Who knows where his head's at?
    
    Dan

 Well according to the newest rumor I read last night the Celts are talking
 to the Warriors about Shaw for Mitch Redmond. Personally I'd love to see
 this deal and would kick in a first round pick as well. Scott well I'll
 give ya a second round pick for. As far as excess baggage, when you consider
 the dealing the kids has had with the Celtics you've got to feel that they
 induced this feelings and once the kid gets with a new team his head will
 be fine. Scott also needs a change of scenery cause the Laker faithful for
 the most part hold him entirely responsible for last years demise. Forget
 that Magic didn't play a lick of defense on Jeff Hornack, it was Scott's
 fault... yeah right...

mike

> Well according to the newest rumor I read last night the Celts are talking
> to the Warriors about Shaw for Mitch Redmond.
    
    Maybe if the C's kick in McHale or Parish and a 1st round pick. 
    Otherwise, it's as one-sided as the trades I read about in the Red Sox
    notesfile.
    
 >As far as excess baggage, when you consider
 >the dealing the kids has had with the Celtics you've got to feel that they
 >induced this feelings and once the kid gets with a new team his head will
 >be fine.
    
    So you say.  But other team's don't know that, and they also know
    they've got the Celtic "braintrust" over a barrell.  You get the
    feeling that Shaw would rather dig ditches for a living then play with
    the Celtics.
    
    Dan

>    Maybe if the C's kick in McHale or Parish and a 1st round pick. 

 	Just a bit too much Dan..
 
>   Otherwise, it's as one-sided as the trades I read about in the Red Sox
>    notesfile.

	Wouldn't be the first time they've done it. Also it wouldn't be the
	first time they did it to Nelly or do we forget Dave Cowens coming
        out of retirement.
    
     
 >   So you say.  But other team's don't know that, and they also know
 >   they've got the Celtic "braintrust" over a barrell.  You get the
 >   feeling that Shaw would rather dig ditches for a living then play with
 >   the Celtics.
    
   The Celtics are not over a barell Dan, Shaw is. Dee Brown may work out he
   may not but as long as the big three are there the Garden will continue
   to sellout and the wins will pile up. Unfortunately it probably won't be
   quality wins (ie playoffs) but they can bide their time until they can
   find an answer. Shaw on the other cannot. If you were in his shoes would
   you want to dig ditches? The more he sits out the further his stock goes
   down.

   I myself can't understand what interest the Warriors have in making this
   deal that's why I said it was a rumor. With Richmond and Hardeway, they
   have an excellent young backcourt why they'd want Shaw is beyond me...


 mike

    	And Dan, I think it would be fair if the Celtics threw in a couple
    of winning Megabuck tickets and the deed to Harvard. 
    
    				/Don

    Slasher, forget Harvard .... too many old steekin buildings. 
    How about MIT, and some of the land by the Charles River ?
    
    :-)

 i was talking to a friend about this, let me know your opinions.

parish + (maybe pinckney, or a 2nd rnder) for richmond.

golden state needs a center; tyrone hill may prove adequate at power 
forward but not at center.   there's no way you'd see hardaway for shaw.

richmond was winning rookie of the year, while shaw was still learning not to 
pick up his dribble in the corner of the court.  richmond was having a great 
2nd year while shaw was confusing the heck out of everyone with his move to 
italy.  richmond for shaw is a pipe dream

>parish + (maybe pinckney, or a 2nd rnder) for richmond.
    
    No way.  Richmond is 23,24 years old.  Parish has a year or two left. 
    Pinckney or a second rounder doesn't begin to make up the difference. 
    As you said, Shaw doesn't come close to Richmond either.  I think it
    takes both of them, and then a kicker like a 1st rounder.
    
    Dan

i'm not a celtic's fan but you have to give parish his due.  when you 
say he only has a year left it's primarily because of his age, but then you 
see him play and he's outrunning the young guys down the court.

i think parish would do a great job in g.s, particularly with him being their
only low post option; think of the year he had when bird was out!

he'll be one of those guys who you'll say only has a year or two left for the
next 5 or 6 years.  if it's really necessary, maybe switch m.smith for pinckney

    Yeah but who will play center for Boston?  Kleine? (gimme a break)
    McHale? (then you lose bench depth and/or forward help).
    
    Parish has to stay until Boston finds a legitimate replacement.
    
    You can't trade away what you don't have, you trade from your surplus!
    Right now, for Boston, it's at guard.
    
    Mike

    Parish may play for 2 years tops ... 
    
    Richmond will be terrorizing the league (barring injury) for the rest
    of the decade.
    
    Give it up guy - the C's are going to have to pay to get Mitch.
    
    Shaw, Parrish, and a number 1 for Mitch and a 2nd ....MAYBE.
    (I still wouldn't do it.)
    
    But if McHale was in that deal instead of Parrish .....

i still think parish has many years left -- not that i like that, being a 
knick's fan.

i agree that to get richmond you'll have to trade away alot-- however, i think
that parish should still be regarded as a lot (more than 1 or 2 years).

also, i don't think the celts have enough depth, with quality players, at any
position to get a player of richmond's quality.  G.S will value a big man vastly
more than they will another gurad (shaw).  They need some major rebounding help

shaw is still unproven -- his 1 year in the nba showed that he needed to improve
his shooting and all those points he scored in itlay aren't worth a damn 
because you can be sure as sh!t that he wasn't scoring them from outside but
rather by driving by inferior defenders.

    as a Rot. owner of Richmond I would like to add this..
    He has not hit the outside jumper... I'd liike someone to post his
    shooting stats that are 10 feet or better...
    
    REK

 How long did ole Kareem play? How you guys can sit there and say Parish
 only has two years left is beyond me. It's up to Parish how long he wants
 to play. He takes good care of himself working out at home during the
 offseason with the weights and bikes. With his style of play I can easily
 see him playing another 5 years if wants to as a quality center. He could
 then hang on for three extra years after like Kareem.

 Shaw, Pickney and a draft pick signs just about right for Richmond and I'd
 hesitate on the draft pick. Richmond is good but he's not one of the top
 10 players in the league yet you anti's seem to think so by what you demand
 the Celts give it up. Shaw has shown the potential to be his equal. Scoring
 Mitch would definately get the edge but Shaw would be the better ballhandler,
 both can rebound and play defense.

 I think I get it the thought of Richmond on the Celtics just sickens you
 anti's....;^)

mike

    Mike, et al,
    
    I believe Parrish has more than a year or two left.  It is known
    that Don Nelson covets him (he mentioned he'd like to have Parrish,
    and believe he has 4-5 years left...)    I'd think Parrish plus
    Shaw and maybe Pinckney or a pic for Richmond and one of Golden
    State's centers is a possibility.    However, having RIchmond won't
    help as long as Lawwy is on the team.   If the Celts spring for
    Mitch, then they need to fully committ to the running game.
    WIth an all-glue front line of Biwd, McHale and Kleine, we ain't
    talking speed.....
    
    JD

    
    GS has wanted a decent center for a long time, and has often felt that
    is what has kept them from being a contender.  They haven't had a
    center since Thurmond retired.  Parrish was one of the top 5 centers in
    the league last year, and might fit what they are looking for.
    
    
    Bruce 

$!    Command format:   
$!    
$!    $ @celtics p1 p2 p3
$!
$!    p1 = item to search for, such as opponent's name, TV station, day of week)
$!    p2 = forecasting switch; enter Y to enable; N or blank to disable
$!    p3 = if p2 is Y, enter a number from 1-31; 7 is the default
$!    
$ Save_Message = F$Environment("Message")
$ Set Message/Nosever/Noid/Notext/Nofac
$ Say :== Write sys$output
$ dow = "''f$cvtime(""today"",,""weekday"")'"
$ td = "''f$time()'"
$ day= "''f$extract(0,2,td)'"
$ month=f$extract(3,3,td)
$ year=f$extract(7,4,td)
$ file = f$environment("procedure")
$ gametoday = f$extract(3,4,f$time())+f$extract(8,2,f$cvtime("today"))
$ P1 = f$edit(P1,"collapse")
$ If P1 .eqs. "" 
$ then 
$ lookingfortoday = "TRUE"
$ p1 = gametoday
$ Say "Today's Boston Celtics' basketball game: "
$ else
$ Say "Selected Boston Celtics' basketball game(s): "
$ lookingfortoday = "FALSE"
$ endif
$ search 'file' 'p1'
$ is_there = $status
$ if is_there .eqs. "%X08D78053" 
$ then 
$ if lookingfortoday then Say "No game today."
$ if .not. lookingfortoday then Say "No such game."
$ endif
$next_n_days:
$ if P2 .eqs. "" .or. P2 .eqs. " " then goto done
$ if P2 .eqs. "Y" 
$ then
$      at_a_glance = 7
$      if P3 .eqs. "" .or. P3 .eqs. " " then P3 = at_a_glance
$      if P3 .lt. 1 .or. P3 .gt. 31 then goto bad_reply
$ else
$      if P2 .nes. "N" then goto bad_reply
$      goto done
$ endif
$ Say "Boston Celtic games in next "+"''P3'"+" days:"
$ month = f$edit(f$extract(0,3,"''p1'"),"UPCASE")
$ n_day = f$extract(4,2,"''p1'")
$ count = 1
$next_day:
$ n_day = n_day + 1
$ if month .eqs. "OCT" .AND. n_day .gt. 31 
$ then 
$ month = "NOV" 
$ goto new_month 
$ endif
$ if month .eqs. "NOV" .AND. n_day .gt. 30 
$ then 
$ month = "DEC" 
$ goto new_month 
$ endif
$ if month .eqs. "DEC" .AND. n_day .gt. 31 
$ then 
$ month = "JAN" 
$ goto new_month 
$ endif
$ if month .eqs. "JAN" .AND. n_day .gt. 31 
$ then 
$ month = "FEB" 
$ goto new_month 
$ endif
$ if month .eqs. "FEB" .AND. n_day .gt. 28 
$ then 
$ month = "MAR" 
$ goto new_month 
$ endif
$ if month .eqs. "MAR" .AND. n_day .gt. 31 
$ then 
$ month = "APR" 
$ goto new_month 
$ endif
$ if month .eqs. "APR" .AND. n_day .gt. 23 then goto say_playoffs
$ goto test_for_game
$new_month:
$ n_day = "1"
$test_for_game:
$ if n_day .lt. 10 then n_day = "0" + f$edit("''n_day'","collapse")
$ p1 = "''month'" + "-" + "''n_day'"
$ search 'file' 'p1'
$ count = count + 1
$ if count .le. P3 then goto next_day
$ goto done
$say_playoffs:
$ SAY "Playoffs due to start... schedule is TBD!!!"
$ goto done
$bad_reply:
$ Say "Invalid reply."
$ goto done
$ done:
$ set mess'Save_Message'
$ EXIT
NOV-02     Cleveland     
NOV-03  at New York 
NOV-06	at Chicago             TNT
NOV-09	   Chicago       
NOV-10	at New Jersey 
NOV-13	at Milwaukee 
NOV-14	   Charlotte     
NOV-16	   Utah          
NOV-17	at Washington 
NOV-21	   Houston       
NOV-23	   Sacramento    
NOV-24	at Cleveland 
NOV-26	   Miami (Hartford)
NOV-28	   Atlanta       
NOV-30	   Washington    
DEC-01	at Philadelphia 
DEC-03	   Seattle       
DEC-05	   Denver        
DEC-07	at Dallas              TNT
DEC-08	at San Antonio 
DEC-10	at Houston 
DEC-12	   Milwaukee     
DEC-14	   Detroit             TNT
DEC-15	at Miami 
DEC-19	   Philadelphia  
DEC-20	at Charlotte 
DEC-26	   Indiana       
DEC-28	at Atlanta 
JAN-02	   New York            TNT
JAN-04	   Phoenix       
JAN-06	   Dallas        
JAN-08	at New York 
JAN-09	   Milwaukee     
JAN-11	   LA Clippers   
JAN-12	at Washington 
JAN-16	   Golden State  
JAN-18	   New Jersey    
JAN-21	at Detroit 
JAN-23	   Detroit             TNT
JAN-25	at Philadelphia 
JAN-27	   LA Lakers           NBC
JAN-28	at Minnesota 
JAN-30	   Orlando       
FEB-01	at Charlotte 
FEB-03	   Washington    
FEB-06	   Charlotte     
FEB-07	at New York 
FEB-12	at Seattle 
FEB-14	at Golden State 
FEB-15	at LA Lakers           TNT
FEB-17	at Denver 
FEB-19	at Phoenix             TNT
FEB-22	   New Jersey (Hartford)
FEB-24	at Indiana             NBC
FEB-26	at Chicago 
FEB-27	   Minnesota     
MAR-01	   San Antonio         TNT
MAR-03	   Portland            NBC
MAR-04	   Indiana (Hartford)
MAR-06	   Miami         
MAR-08	at LA Clippers 
MAR-10	at Portland 
MAR-12	at Sacramento 
MAR-13	at Utah                TNT
MAR-15	at Washington 
MAR-17	   Philadelphia        NBC
MAR-19	at Atlanta 
MAR-20	   Washington    
MAR-22	at Indiana 
MAR-28	at Miami 
MAR-29	   Cleveland           TNT
MAR-31	   Chicago             NBC
APR-02	at New Jersey 
APR-04	   New Jersey    
APR-06	at Orlando 
APR-11	at Milwaukee 
APR-12	   Miami         
APR-14	   New York            NBC
APR-16	at Detroit 
APR-18	at Philadelphia 
APR-19	at Cleveland           TNT
APR-21	   Atlanta       

   Pretty slick, Mike!

   Thanks
   Mike JN

    No prob dude!
    
    The best thing about the .COM file is that you can put your favorite
    teams schedule in it.  Just cut the existing schedule out and paste in
    your team's schedule.
    
    Mike

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (FREDERICK WATERMAN, UPI Sports Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Too fast for frontline?

UPI SportsFeature
For release Oct. 27-28
	BOSTON (UPI) -- Young guards Dee Brown and Brian Shaw sprint up and
down the Boston Celtics practice court at Hellenic College, taking off
on every change of possession like Carl Lewis coming out of the blocks.
	Lumbering behind the speedsters are 37-year-old Robert Parish, 33-
year-old Larry Bird and 32-year-old Kevin McHale, who have played a
decade of slow, half-court offense together.
	Will young speed and old stars blend into winners? Nobody knows,
including Bird, whose reluctance is evident.
	``Since I've been here, we've never run and we won three
championships,'' said the former three-time MVP.
	The biggest change in the Celtics roster is the absence of veteran
Dennis Johnson, who was Boston's point guard but did not have the
endurance or speed to lead the fast break. Bird, who described Johnson
as the best teammate he ever had, said the conversion to the fast pace
demanded by new coach Chris Ford was done at Johnson's expense.
	``The reason they didn't bring him back is that he would have been
starting again. He would have come back to camp in great shape,'' Bird
said loyally.
	No one will ever know. What is certain is that Bird, Parish and
McHale are going to be in great shape very quickly as they, and opposing
teams, chase after Boston's guards.
	Brown, a first-round draft pick, has speed and excellent passing
vision. Shaw's jumper may not have improved with a season in Italy but
he drives hard to the basket and is a quick and smart player.
	Parish, the NBA's oldest player, was asked if the veterans will be
able to stay up with the youngsters.
	``To halfcourt, yes,'' the 7-foot center said, before laughing.
	``We'll get a lot of easy baskets and that will keep the pressure on
the other team's defense and save a lot of wear and tear on everyone
involved,'' said the lean 7-footer. He will be spared heavy minutes
because of backup center Joe Kleine and third-string center Stojko
Vrankovic, a 7-foot-2 Yugoslavian project.
	In the preseason, Bird's points have been slightly lower but his
rebounds and assists have been much higher. The 6-foot-9 forward is one
of the league's finest passers but that ability was not exploited the
past two seasons, when former coach Jimmy Rodgers reduced Bird's role in
the offense and moved him away from the basket for medium-range jumpers.
	Parish said that fastbreak basketball suits Bird's talents because it
opens up the court and without players packed inside the 3-point arc,
there are more passing possibilities.
	``Because of the (improved) movement, Larry's got more people to pass
the ball to,'' explained Parish. ``We're not standing around watching
each other do his thing (one-on-one). With more movement you've got more
targets to choose from.''
	Ford, who was an assistant to Rodgers, formerly played with the
Celtics and Detroit. He is not intimidated by the big names on his team
and has always been firm and loud in his criticism if effort is lacking.
In training camp, if a player failed to run, practice stopped for
everyone to do windsprints. After Boston won four of its first five
preseason games in efficient, impressive fashion, Parish expressed his
approval of the new plan.
	``The running game will enhance everyone's game,'' he said. ``The
running game will give us a more rounded base. Instead of just having a
half-court game, pounding it inside and running Larry off picks, the
running game it will give the defenses something else to think about.
The running game will open up everything for the inside game.''
	A team cannot successfully fast break on every possession and when an
offense must be set up, the Celtics have in Kevin McHale one of the best
low-post players in the sport's history. The 6-foot-10 forward has a
collection of fakes, spins and fallaways which always free him for
short-range shots. His effort on defense depends upon the importance of
the game.
	Under Rodgers, the Celtics overall defense was lacking, especially by
allowing opposing guards to drive the middle. Boston now has the
backcourt talent to control other teams' guards and the Celtics' big men
are under orders from Ford to establish the lane as their territory.
	The NBA's winningest organization has faltered in recent years. They
didn't know about Len Bias's cocaine use until it killed him, they
didn't realize Shaw was serious about going to Italy until he left, and
they waited to sign Reggie Lewis until the price became the biggest
contract in Celtics' history.
	As a result, former Big East commissioner Dave Gavitt was hired to
assume the duties of general manager Jan Volk, who keeps the title but
far fewer duties.The operative word in Boston is ``new,'' as in new
guards, new coach, new administrator, new defense and new offense.
	All in the pursuit of regaining the old Celtics success.
 adv. for weekend release Oct. 27-28

    Well, well, well!  Here we have the mighty Celtics sitting undefeated,
    including 2 big wins they probably would've lost last year.  The LA-LA
    Lakers are WINLESS!  YES!  And even Detroit has a blemish, courtesy of
    KC and the Sonics.
    
    May the season end now and the playoffs begin ;-)
    
    Mike

    
    	If the season were to end today, the Green Slime would
    	be in the playoffs.  Hell of a barometer, wouldn't you say?
    
    	Jim

    If/When Boston loses a game, Doc will be back.  Then we can just ask
    him why his Lakers haven't won yet ;-)
    
    Mike

    >   If the season were to end today, the Green Slime would
    >   be in the playoffs.
                      
    Lets be glad that it doesn't. :-)
    
    						 glen j.

>    Lets be glad that it doesn't. :-)
    
    Especially you Laker fans.  They'd have to watch Kings' games ;-)

    I must admit that you guys have provided me with a lot of chuckles
    today.  My, how the mighty Celtics and their fans have fallen, that
    after 3 games they are beating their mighty chests and bleating
    about 'if the playoffs started today'.  Yeah, and if cows had wings....
    
    Boys, their are what, 78 games left....lets see how the geriatrics
    are playing come march.  
    
    Too funny.  I'll make some equally dumb bleatings:  The celts will
    make the playoffs, as will the Lakers, Knicks, Sixers, Blazers,
    Pistons, Bulls, Suns, Mavericks, et al.....
    
    JD

    JD, go back and indulge in some of that marital bliss that's going
    around.
    
    Mark.

    Tell Michael Cage's babe I said "Hi..."
    

whattaaaa ya mean watch me ?????????

I'll be watching JD spill some Ice tea next week as we go see the NY Ewings
take on the Mighty Sonics....

Should be a good game and I'll be sitting there thinking of y'all who can't
get tickets to see a NBA hoop game whenever you want to....

Metz

    That's right, I'll be jamming wif Mr. Cage and his gurl nexted week,
    at the Cavernous Colesium, to see the Soaring Sonics of Seattle
    scamper and scratch as the try to secure a scintillating win from
    the Egrarious Ewings.
    
    JD

>Should be a good game and I'll be sitting there thinking of y'all who can't
>get tickets to see a NBA hoop game whenever you want to....
    
    Under KC's leadership, that will soon change.  I remember buying
    tickets for a Suns' game on the day of the game, during the drug
    scandal era.  Now you have to get them at least a couple months in
    advance, and that is for the lousy opponents.  Tickets for the good
    teams have to be purchased as soon as they go on sale in October.
    
    Mike

    Only Portland's outstanding effort has kept the Celtics from being the
    best in the NBA!  They're equal in the W column!
    
    Mike

    I'm here Mikey ..... while it is good to see that the C-minus' are
    worthy of being bashed, I would advise you to remain silent until the
    Septics show themselves capable of beating a good team. And they
    flunked their exam against Philly.
    
    So are you off the Suns bandwagon now that it is obvious that they are
    only the fourth bestteam in the West (after LA, Portland, and SA) ???

 Doc, how many Kleenex did you go through during last night cerimonies?
 I also seem to recall the Celts beating the "Jordans" in Chi-town earlier
 this year Doc so you're good team analogy is off base....Philly (barkley
 in particular) were smoking over blowing the game the night before in
 Motown. 

 JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY! 
 JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  
 JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY! 
 JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY! 
 JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  JOHNNY!  

 mike

    Boy, does Johnny Most look terrible.  I didn't know that his right side
    is somewhat paralyzed (didn't use his right arm at all, but he was able
    to walk with a limp).  His wife looked damn good though!  :-)
    
    Hawk

    It was pretty sad to see how ill Johnny really is.  Makes me wonder how
    much longer he'll be around.
    
    It isn't often that a guy gets to see how appreciated he's been over
    the years.  Clearly, the events last night meant a lot to him.  I'm
    glad the Celts were able/willing to do this for him.  Yes, he's a
    homer, and that isn't today's 'style'.  Yes, his voice was (ahem)
    somewhat less than dulcet-toned and smooth.
    
    But his enthusiasm and love of the game and his team got a lot of
    people interested in basketball who might never otherwise have cared.
    
    A&W

>    So are you off the Suns bandwagon now that it is obvious that they are
>    only the fourth bestteam in the West (after LA, Portland, and SA) ???
    
    Doc, only you fully understand "wagon jumping".  I'm a permanent
    resident of Boston's and Phoenix's wagons.  The difference between you
    and I is that my affiliations end there.
    
    Mike

    Re. Johnny Most
    
    I thought he was at his theatrical and histrionic best back in '73
    when the Knicks "lucked" out and upset the Celts in 6. Johnny went
    bonkers about the Knick players and refs "doing in" the Celts at Game
    6 in MSG.I think that was the year that Havlicek could barely use
    his right arm.
    
    ML
    
    PS. I wish I could remember what he called Wally Jones(another of his
    favorites along with Luke the Kook Jackson!) 
    

    > It was pretty sad to see how ill Johnny really is.  Makes me wonder
    > how much longer he'll be around.
    
    I was thinking pretty much the same thing last night only, I was hoping
    he'd make it to the end of the ceremony.  Seriously, he didn't look
    good at all.......
    
    People like him really makes you think about what a lifetime of heavy
    cigarette smoking will do to you.
    
    Hawk

    Re: Johnny Most
    
    One of my favorite stories about him was printed in the yesterday's
    Globe as told by his partner (and now play-by-play man) Glenn Ordway.
    
    "John used to open every broadcast the same way for 37 years. 'This is
    Johnny Most high above courtside.'  Well, there was one night he didn't
    do the traditional opening and he claims it may have been the only
    time.  We were in Dallas and we couldn't find him.  We have no idea
    where he is.   So I did the opening and the next thing I hear is
    Johnny, coming down the runway, yapping away.  I look back and he's
    being escorted by two Texas policemen, arm in arm, and he's screaming
    at them.  Well it turned out Johnny was smoking and they were going to
    throw him out of the building until they found out who he was.  But
    they still didn't trust him, so they walked him to his seat.  Well by
    now, Johnny is furious.  He sits down and I told him he could do the
    opening.  So he said, OK, OK.  He's fuming.  Johnny starts by saying,
    '6,565 rapes being commited right now in the city of Dallas; 5,413
    armed robberies being committed right now in the city of Dallas.  And
    on top of that, 800 murders being committed right now in the city of
    Dallas and all the damn police care about is stopping Johnny Most from
    smoking.  I hate Texas.'"
    
    And my favorite quote, from the man with the green shades:
    
    "Look at this!  Rodman and Lohaus are in a fight.  The hotdog has
    started another one!  Lohaus was taking none of his nonsense...no
    nonsense.  No garbage from Rodman.  And Rodman is a garbage dispenser!"
    
    For those of you who never heard him - to watch the game and listen to
    Most on the radio was very common to us Celts fans, especially for big
    games.  By listening to his description, you'd think he was watching
    another game, he was so biased.  I know he was entertaining to me for
    the many years I listened to him.  I got his autograph as a kid before
    a game, while eating dinner in the Iron Horse restaurant at the Garden.   
    He was sitting at the bar, by himself, chain smoking and sucking down 
    what looked like a high ball or something like that.  He looked on the
    verge of death then, and that was probably 25 years ago.
    
    					Steve

    re .350
    
    I saw that, and all bashing aside, I wish him the best, but he doesn't
    look very good, not at all. :-(

 My favorite nicknames is still Mc Filthy and Mc Nasty for Mahorn and Ruland...
 Seems like just yesterday my mother was yelling at me to turn the radio off
 and go to bed. Seems like you could never turn the radio down low enough
 that she couldn't pickup that unmistakable voice...

 mike

    How could you tell if Johnn Most looked bad?  The guy always looked
    like crap - the only guy uglier than Bird, McHale, DJ adn Pawwish.
    
    Glad he's out of the booth and becomeing just a memory.  Easily
    the worst announcer of all time.  Guy didnt' know a layup from a
    foul shot - that was obvious.
    
    JD

Nah, I liked Most.

He is irrevocably woven into the tapestry of NBA legend, along with
Havlichek, Jabbar, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Willis Reed, Wilt the
Stilt, and many others.

That trademark voice, the blatant homerism hark back to another age
in sport.  NBA basketball wasn't around during the golden years of the
20s, where the sportswriters (some of whom went on to be our greatest
authors) lionized baseball.  So, instead we have figures like Johnny
Most.

Most will always be near and dear to a Celtics fan's heart, but even
non-Celtic fans should respect him, for the man was never fake, and
he did what he did with heart and gusto and intensity.

I will miss Johnny Most, the world could use a few more characters,
and a few less transparent, plastic sportscasters like Dan Dierdork....

'Saw

    JD, believe us, he looked terrible lasted night.  
    
    I was never a Johnny Most fan, but last night I saw a side of the man
    that isn't noticed through the microphone........
    
    Hawk

    Not only that, JD, but you missed him in the early part of his career
    when he could call a game, accurately and expertly.  His health caught
    up with him by the time you moved here and he slipped a lot, but in the
    early part of his career, there weren't many people better than him.
    
    John

    John,
    
    You're probably right, but then he should have realized it and retired,
    instead of become a mockery of himself.  To me he always souned
    like a miserable old crab, who couldn't see anything good in the
    world, and who took his personal shortcomings and abuses out on
    the opposition.  A sad, pathetic figure, clinging to a past that
    was glorified much beyond its worth, a delusionary vision of a
    'legend'.
    
    JD

Geez, JD, for a second there I thought you were talking about MrT...

    Johnny Most brought New England the Celtics before TV even heard about
    the NBA.  Most was there through all 16 Celts championships - which is
    symbolized by a 16 diamond ring given to him last night by Red
    Auerbach.
    
    In an interview prior to the ceremonies, Most was asked what he most
    wanted to be remembered for.  Johnny said he wants to be remembered for
    the work he has done with kids, youth sports programs, and the Special
    Olympics.
    
    It's kind of sad that you carry that much hate in your heart for
    someone who never did anything to you personally, JD.

    RE: ML
    	The Knicks beat the Celtics in a 7th game at the Garden in 1973.  I
    know.  I was there.  8^(
    
    				/Don

    Mac,
    
    Hate's in the eye of the beholder.  I found Most - the basketball
    announcer - to be a loathesome figure, a pathetic creature.  What
    he did outside of announcing - whether it be the good things such
    as his work with the special Olympics, which I've heard about before,
    or whatever bad he did doesn't come into my equation.   His public
    persona - the one that he fomented - was the sorry homer - the screamer
    - the insulter - that's what he brought upon himself.  
    
    Do I take joy in his being sick - nope, not one iota.   I'm only
    glad that he's finally given up announcing, and that gratefully
    (for me, anyway) that he'll just fade into nostalgia along with
    lava lamps and Lost In Space.  I hope he continues his charible
    functions for as long as he's able - there can never be too much
    of that.
    
    JD

    JD -
    
    It's a point well taken about how he should have known he should have
    retired, but when a job becomes so much a part of one's life, it's hard
    to know when to go.  It happens with pro athletes and lots of other
    people.
    
    I agree with you about the public persona too.  He did bring a lot of
    it on himself.  People who met him outside the basketball world tended
    to feel he was a complete SOB.
    
    At the same time, however, he was a factor in building both the
    popularity for (if you're a fan) and dislike of (if you're not) the
    Celtics.  In his prime, he was a damned good announcer and I wish the
    people who only became Celtics fans or haters recently could have heard
    him in his prime.  I've relistened to some old recordings and the man
    was good.  It's unfortunate that what people dislike about him
    overshadowed that.
    
    When he broadcast the All-Star Game with Chick Hearn a couple of years
    ago, it was a completely different Most.  He was objective, he stayed
    on top of the play, followed the action well and did a great job.  The
    two of them together was a great moment in broadcasting.
    
    John

       Gawd JD, did they force you to listen to the guy even in Seattle?
    What possible difference could it make to you whether he did C's games
    or not?
                                        Denny

And carrying further what Slasher said, it's Most's inimitable character
that adds to the spice of the game.

I've never heard anyone be passive about Johnny Most.  You either love him
or you hate him, and for that, creating that emotional gratification (either
love or hate) he has made a great contribution to the game.

Lord knows, we'd never be debating these issues about Dan Dierdork!

'Saw
 

    JD, I'd have thought you'd loved Most.  You're both masters of
    hyperbole... ;-)
    
    Seriously, though, I can see it from both sides.  Most lives up here in
    Nashua, NH, owning a ticket agency from which he mysteriously is able
    to legally scalp tickets to Boston sports events including Celtics
    games, and some of things I've heard from people who've dealt with him
    haven't been too complimentary.  But both that and the good work he has 
    done for charity are irrelevant.  He was a basketball announcer on a 
    local scale, and for most of his career he did a good job of calling 
    a game and (by local pronouncement) a great job of entertaining.  He
    did this for many years when both Boston and the country as a whole 
    had very little interest in professional basketball.  For that
    dedication and on the whole for his performance on the job over the
    years, I can accept Most as a genuine pioneer of the league and sport.
    
    glenn
     

    Hey Denny, if you don't know  that I've yanked everyone's chains
    over Most for years, then I don't know what (?)  Most was like PHil
    the Shill Rizzuto, and in all seriousness, he was funny and fairly
    outrageous.  I felt a lot of what he said was downright insulting,
    and could only foment bias in the lunatic fringe Celtic fan.  Some
    was damn funny like the time he said "Mahorn ripped Bird's arm right
    out of the socket, and there's no foul!!" (or something to that
    effect).  My favorite Celtic announce was the Coooz and always will
    be.  Funny, but pretty hones (gasp, he actually criticized LARRY
    BIRD at time!!!)
    
    Most slipped very badly over the last decade, and that's what I
    base my judgement on.  In those years, he soundd like he didn't
    know a hoop from a hole in his head.
    
    JD

    Not to mention Most's hatchet jobs on Sampson, Mahorn, Ruland and
    others...some thought it was cute, but all Most did was give the Jihad
    pesudo-gospel.

    Re: Doc
    
    Quote from Jeff Ruland on Most's retirement:
    
    "I wish the guy  well.  My mom had some trouble with the McFilthy and
    McNasty stuff, but I didn't mind.  I just thought it was his style and
    I wish we had had somone like him in Washington.  Maybe people would
    have noticed us.  I don't have anything personal against the man.  He
    got me a little bit of motoriety and I guess that was OK.  Send him my
    regards."
    
    Quote from Rick Mahorn:
    
    "Tell him I'm coming up to steal the banner.  I've had enough.  No,
    seriously, I knew what he was doing.  It was good for the Celtics'
    radio.  People believed him.  And at that time in my career, I got
    known for something.  I felt he was just protecting his turf.  He bled
    green.  He's like [the late Sixer PA announcer Dave] Zinkoff.  He'll
    still be a legend as long as the team and the franchise survives."
    
    He was entertainment, Doc.  Same as the NBA is entertainment.
    
    					Steve

 Psuedo-gospel? Big Ralphie picking on little Jerry didn't deserve to be tattoo-
 ed? Mahorn and Ruland weren't dirty ballplayers? Cmon Doc you'll have to do
 better than that....

 I'm glad to see though that the nice-ness has worn off though... 
 
 ;^)

 mike

    Most poluted the minds of a lot of Celtic fans.  I've never encountered
    such a generally biased fandom in my life as them.  The average Celtic
    fan *has* been affected by most to the point (at the height of
    ridiculousness) that they criticized their own Tommy Heinsohn for
    leaning towards the Lakers in the finals 3 years ago, when reality was
    that CBS was forced to demote him for his green glasses over the very
    same series.
    
    I'm not saying any of that is good or bad, but I do think that's the
    way it is.  
    
    Dan

    	I see Dan is noting with his pink Laker shirt again.

 Hahahahaaa Hey Dan as REK would say take a suck pill will ya...hahhaaa
 
 CBS threaten to fire Tommy if he didn't say something nice about those
 dreaded quiche eaters in purple.

 Why do you think they gave him a ring with 16 diamonds in it the only one
 of it's kind in the world? Because he made us objective fans? hahahaaa
 too much...

 Chew on this Dan 8-2 in the Finals.....

 mike

    
    Championship after championship polluted the minds of a lot of Celtic
    fans.  And Johnny Most didn't play in a one of them...
    
    glenn
    

    >This coming from our man, Dan, who coddles hopeless Tar Heel fans in
    >exchange for tixtual favors.
    
    I've only met one Tar Heel fan, Bob.  And he's a lot more objective
    than the average Celtic fan that I've encountered on my journeys.
    
    Dan

    This is too much!  Stop it Dan, you're killin' me!

    hey Dan.. TAKE A BIG SUCK_PILL tm!!!!!!!
    
    Last time I check Most did not win any games for the Celtics..
    His brand of play-by-play (after 37 years) is still classic!
    Yeah he was a homer.. SO what? I'd rather have an announcer
    that is a homer than Dick Stockton doing the play by play for my team.
    
    REK

    Re: /Don .361
    
    I remember watching the Knicks beating the Celts in a 6th game at
    MSG,wasn't sure if it was the clincher. Was '73 the year that Havlicek
    had limited use of his right arm? Or was that '72?
    
    The years get fuzzier1(Or was it the Buds)
    
    Thanks,
    ML
     

    1968-69	Last title under Russell
    1969-70	34-48, no playoffs
    1970-71	Cowens is rookie, team barely misses playoffs
    1971-72	Loses to Knicks in 5
    1972-73	Best regular season record, Havlicek gets hurt, team loses
    		to New York in Eastern Finals in 7, Knicks win title
    1973-74	Team beats Milwaukee for title
    
    John

    1990-91	Celtics sprint to early lead in Atlanatic, but valiant
    		Sixers squad lead by MVP Barkley blow by Boston, win 58
    		games and the Div. Title. Celtics stumble in 2nd or 3rd, 
    		and get an Excellent Butt-Kicking at the hands of the
    		Pistons or Bulls in the 2nd round. 
    
    Hope that helped.
    
    heh heh heh .....

    Re: Johnny Most
    	This little story appeared in the Boston Globe earlier this week
    concerning remembrances of Most. Boston area people have probably
    seen this but I wanted to share this with other folk. This story
    comes from Glenn Ordway who is now the Celts'radio play by play man
    and for some years in the 80's was Most's partner in the booth.
    
    "John used to open every broadcast the same way for 37 years."This is
    Johnny Most high above courtside." Well,there was one night he didn't
    do the traditional opening and he claims it might have been the only
    time. We were in Dallas and we couldn't find him. We have no idea where
    he is. So I did the opening and the next thing I hear is Johnny,coming
    down the runway,yapping away.I look back and he's being escorted by two
    Texas policemen,arm in arm,and he's screaming at them. Well it turned
    out Johnny was smoking and they were going to throw him out of the
    building until they found out who he was. But they still didn't trust
    him,so they walked him to his seat. Well,by now,Johnny is furious.He
    sits down and I told him he could do the opening. So he said,OK,OK.
    He's fuming. Johnny starts by saying "6,565 rapes being committed
    right now in the city of Dallas; 5,413 armed robberies being committed
    right now in the city of Dallas.And on top of that,800 murders being
    committed right now in the city of Dallas and all the damn police care
    about is stopping Johnny Most from smoking. I hate Texas!""
    
    
    Classic
    
    ML
    

    	Gee ML, The Celtics beat the Knicks in Madison Square Garden
    in the 1973 Conference Finals to set up the seventh game.  They
    didn't have the 2-2-1-1-1 format they have now, they alternated
    every game.  The Celtics blew out the Knicks in game one on a Sunday
    afternoon and the Knicks blew out the Celtics in game 2 in New York.
    
    	In the third game of the series Havlicek hurt his arm and didn't
    even try to play until game 5 (he couldn't) while the Knicks built
    up a 3-1 lead.  The Celtics won game 5 when Paul Silas hit a jumper
    from the corner that might've been a three pointer today and then
    beat the Knicks in Madison Square Garden.  In the '72 series the
    Knicks beat the Celtics in 5 games so I can't remember New York
    beating Boston in a sixth game at home.  Better knock off those
    Buds.  8^)
    
    				/Don

    re: .382
    
    Hey Dock, I thought you didn't take drugs.......  :-)
    
    Hawk

    Saw, I see things that most man only hope too ... listen to me and
    learn my son, for note .386 was pure prophecy ... heed my words !
    
    Doc
    
    p.s. I'm (tm)ing Excellent Butt-Kicking ....

    /Don,
    	Maybe it's time for Moussy( Yech)
    
    
    ML
    I ain't ready for senility!
    

>                      <<< Note 49.388 by NEMAIL::LEARYM >>>
>                      -< I,m tooyoung and too handsome!! >-
>
>    
>    ML
>    I ain't ready for senility!
    
    Geez, go on vacation, and somebody steals your signature!  Who is this
    imposter?
    
    The _real_ ML :-)

    The world ain't ready for two ML's
    
    By the By,if you ain't a Notre Dame fan,then you're not a real ,ML!
    Just sign yours Celtic fan and I'll sign mine ND fan
    
    ML
     

    
    When we had too many Dicks in here, I changeded my handle to Dickster.
    Which one of youse guys wants to be ML-ster?
    
    -Handel, with a new Di...  I mean, Dickster with a new handle
    

    
    Speak for yourself /er! 8^)
    
    
    
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    )))

 Hey Doc, was that great friday nite or what? The BOss is back in town
 ready to retake his rightful place back atop the World. Didn't you
 just love the way they toyed with em. First hey show them how easy it
 is building a 17 point lead. then they let em get to 1 so they think they
 have a chance ( at this point I imagine you were wetting your pants in
 anticipation of what your fingers could write today) and bang just reclaim
 the glass and cruise to victory despite a bogus intentional on Bird..

 Yeah Reverse JAM by Reggie Lewis and the gang...

 ;^)

 mike

    Heckuva great game, eh Mike?  Especially since the refs were clemsoning
    the Celts big time, in their own house, no less!
    
    What the heck was that face plate on Laimbeer for?  Was he protecting a
    facial injury of some sort, or is it to prevent a whiney-face?  :-)
    
    Hawk

    I'm glad that wasn't directed at me Mike, I'll let Doc handle that
    one... ha ha....

    Nice headlock by The Man From Glad on McHale, huh?  Glad to see
    he's still up to his old tricks.
    
    One of the nicest plays of the game was the Drive and Dunk by Shaw.
    And Dee Brown played a helluva game!
    
    					Steve

    And speaking of Brian Shaw, is he getting anymore boo's from the Celtic
    faithfull?  :-)
    
    Hawk

    I wish I could've seen it, but I was psyched with the results anyway!
    The Celtics are for REAL!
    
    The Lakers can now look to Boston for their rebuilding schedule
    timetable. ;-)
    
    Mike

Yo Mikester, don't suppose you happen to recall what happened
the last time the Lakers played Phoenix, do you?

Laker_Ken

    re: -1
    
    why just one game?  last go back to the last 6 games.  What happened
    there Ken?
    
    Mike

    Actually MIkey, to get a proper view of the recent rivalry lets go back
    20 games. 

    Should be a split.

    I'm here Mikey .... became the Doctor is magnamious, I'll allow you to
    celebrate. After all it's only December. 
    
    That will make my bash sessions in the spring all the more delicious.
    
    heh heh heh ...

    Re: -1
    
    doc, that first line doesn't make sense.

    re. -1
    
    What else is new with his notes......
    
    
    Lou

 Ok Doc, I'll give you that but heed my words you best better find yourself
 a new way to vent your fustrations cause the C's are back and guaranteed
 to give you nightmares this year...

 ;^)

 happy holidays Doc....

mike