Conference 7.286::sports_90

Hi Gary...

Yep, I'm a fan....

My favorite team is Liverpool.  Favorite players are Ian Rush, and
John Aldridge.  

Also like PSV Eindhoven too.  

Am really psyched cause the US made it to Italy.


Go 'pool!
Chainsaw

    
    Add me to the list of "football" fans.
    
    My favorite team is Coventry City (see note# 234 in BALZAC::FOOTBALL)
    
    Another one of the people excited about US making it to Italy.  Also
    excited about my brother-in-law's recent purchase of a satelitte dish,
    which will enable me to catch most of the games without commercials.
    
    Am also interested in American college soccer, having coached both
    men's and women's collegiate teams.
    
     		Steve

Well, while all the Dawgs fans and Horsie fans were duking it out
at Pile It High, I was waiting breathlessly, like MrT's proverbial
crack-haid(tm), for a taste of what I'd been missing since my return
from Europe.

On Sunday, 330pm (they change the time around) English League Soccer
came one.  Lo and behold, it was the same broadcast that SUPER Channel
was showing when I was in France....

Imagine how great I felt when the featured match of the week was the
Liverpool-Nottingham Forest match from New Years Day.   While Denver
fans were cheering one of Elway's TD passes, I was going nuts over
Ian Rush's first goal at 12 minutes...  and his second at 38 minutes.

Unfortunately, 'pool assumed a defensive posture late in the game, 
allowing Forest to draw the game 2-2.  But, I was really happy.

Gotta love it.  Sure beats following 'pool in the papers...

One happy Reds fan...
Chainsaw

    re .4:
    
    I too saw that program...one of Rosenthal's goals was unbelievable,
    coming off a 180-degree turnaround that faked out the opposition
    bigtime...                                                          
    
    
    py

BTW - TNT will be showing a lot of the world cup starting june 8 
and going through july 8....


I think I might have to get cable installed now :-(


Metz

Hawkster...you have seen the light...

Rick, I'm really sorry to hear that Barnes is going to Spain!
In my mind he is one of the quintessential setup men is football.

One of my favorite parts of the Liverpool - Chelsea fixture was the
awesome save by Grobbelar on Bumstead.  As the announcer said,
most keepers would have been content to knock it away.  Grobbelar
actually managed to pull it down.  Phenomenal.

The two goals by Steve Nicol were cool, and (as probably the
biggest American fan of Ian Rush) I loved it when Rush got his 
very simply header as Chelsea left him TOTALLY unmarked.
The announcer, almost matter of factly, said "And now one for Rush..."

Rush set up one of Nicol's goals on a perfect pass through.  It 
went on the back side of the back, allowing Nicol to pick it
up and put it home...


I watched last Sunday with a pint of Newcastle Ale.  Nothing like
it in the world...

chainsaw

PS  Any word on how Aldridge is doing with his club in Spain???

    Univision (a Mexican channel) has World Class games every Sunday
    morning. Last week they showed Brazil getting hosed by a Scottish ref
    in a game played in England vs. the England national team. Good
    physical game, England got a breakaway goal in the 1st 15 minutes then
    played defense with a few good offensive attacks. The European style 
    differs a lot from the South American style. 

    European soccer is completely different from SA soccer; it is more
    physical and more of a slow deliberate attack. Europeans do not
    have the physical talents of the SA players, and thus hide their
    individual weaknesses by playing more as a team.  The best at this
    are the Germans. SA soccer is more of an art, where players try
    to "outdance" opponents. It is beautiful to watch, especially when
    the Brazilians play.
    
    GO BRAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!

    One major difference is in free kicks. The SA's roll around like they
    are gonna die any minute, so they can get the call and the kick. The
    SA's are much better in free kick situations because the put more
    English (no pun intended) on the ball and can make it do a rain dance
    in the air. Europeans prefer to "play the advantage" since they would
    have an opportunity and not have to risk messing with the free kick. SA
    refs tend to wistle more fouls and E ref tend to let play continue if
    there is an advantage. Just something I noticed from watching past cup
    games I taped. 
    
    
    the devil dog

Barnes....and there's one for Rush!


Ya gotta love the English announcers too with their economical announcing
style.

'Saw

    I think I had better put a stop to all this nonsense about Liverpool
    and Ian Rush, etc, before it gets completely out-of-hand.
    
    Liverpool are a good team not a great team.  What has made them
    champions in 16 out of the last 20 seasons is that they are
    consistently a good team.  While it may help them qualify for "dynasty"
    status, it does not necessarily make them an exciting team to watch,
    nor are their goals necessarily specular when they do score.
    
    So let's no get carried away with the 'pool.
    
    So here's a run down of some other teams (and players) to watch
    out for.  Some are even worth rooting for (unless of course their
    opponents happen to be Liverpool).
    
    ARSENAL:  Last year's champions.  Took the title from Liverpool
    at Anfield (Liverpool's home ground) in the very last game of the
    entire soccer season with less than a minute left in the game to
    win 2-0. 
    
    Best players: 
    	* David Rocastle (midfield) has the ability to change
    	  the course of a game with brilliant runs and a powerful shot.
    	* Alan Smith (forward) last seasons top scorer in the First
    	  Division.  Can score goals from the unlikeliest of positions.
          
    
    TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR:  My pick for one of the teams for the 1990s.
    They have spent lavishly to buy some outstanding players (see below)
    and are managed by the experienced Terry Venables.  They have quietly
    and steadily moved from "bottom-of-the-leaguers" to finish this
    season in 3rd place.
    
    Best Players:
    	* Gary Lineker (forward) outstanding goal scorer for England
    in the 1986 World Cup.  Consistently troubles defenders and can
    turn on a sixpence (almost equivalent to a dime!!)
    	* Paul Gasgoine (midfield) One of Britain's best players - yes,
    even better than John Barnes (some would say).  He has an arrogant
    approach to the game - similar to Maradona's and Gullit's - and
    has the potential to be as dominant a force in the game as anyone.
     Definitely a player to watch in Italy.
    
    MANCHESTER UNITED:  Another team that has spent lavishly (some would
    say excessively) this year.  Like Tottenham, they are a team to
    watch in the 1990s.
    
    Best Players:  Bryan Robson (Captain of his Club and Country). He
    is perhaps one of the best all-round players, with a knack for being
    in the right place at the right time.
    
    
    The list goes on.....(and one day I may be motivated to continue)...but
    the point is to ensure that US soccer fans know about other teams
    and other players to watch out for.  There is far more to English
    Soccer than Ian Rush and Liverpool.
    
    Regards,
    
    PJ

    PJ, you are correct in saying that Liverpool is not a great team,
    but a team that is consistantly good. Liverpool is probably the
    best known English team due to the fact that they have won so much
    both in Eng. but also in Eur. play. I believe it can be called a
    dynasty because of its consistent play, but the gap between Liv.
    and the rest is narrowing.
    
    But then again the Reds will always be my favorite Eur. team.

Yes, PJ, I'm decidedly pro Liverpool.  

Sometimes a team doesn't have to be great.  Consistency and a modicum
of effort will go a long way.  What I like about 'Pool is their
workman-like approach to the game...not flamboyant, not overly flashy,
but it gets results.

One fault that I feel that they have is that when they get a lead, sometimes
they tend to sit back too much.  That's what killed them against
Arsenal last year, and forced them into extra time against Everton
in the FA Cup.

Another team I like to watch is Nottingham Forest.

For excitement, although we get absolutely zero coverage over here at
all, check out PSV Eindhoven or Ajax in the Dutch league...

I guess I'm not into superbly exciting individuals, but rather a 
coordinated team effort to get the win...that's why I like Liverpool...

JMHO,
'Saw

    ,Saw,
    
    You got it a bit wrong. Last year, Arsenal had to beat Liverpool
    by two goals, whilst a tie would have given Liverpool the title.
    
    Liverpool tried to contain Arsenal right from the start. The final
    score was 0-2 to Arsenal, so they never had a lead to sit back on.
    Arsenal worked very hard, and deserved to win that game. They were
    worthy Champions, playing exciting attractive soccer. 
    
    This year, key injuries and players just losing form meant that 
    they never gained any momentum, and IMO played downright boring 
    football that belongs in the lower leagues.
    
    If George Graham (manager) sees sense and buys a winger, and one
    or two more good midfielders, and sticks with Lukic in goal (and
    not the vastly overated Seaman), then I think that next year will
    see a very exciting four team race, Aston Villa, Arsenal, Liverpool
    and Tottenham. Imagine it going to the final game, between Arsenal
    and Tottenham, winner takes all.

No, I know that 'pool lost 2-0, in fact I think the second goal came
in injury time..

What I was getting at, and I probably didn't make this very clear was
that the Reds had a goal to give in a sense.  They could have lost
1-0 and still won the title.

From what I heard, once the score was 1-0 (or 1 to nil as some announcers
like to say, which I get a big kick out of 8^)) Liverpool kind of laid
back a bit.  Ultimately that cost them.  

I didn't see the game and have only heard accounts from others and read
about it.


In the FA Cup Everton game, they got ahead and again seemed to sit
back to much...in fact, they kept me on the edge of my seat for
most of the afternoon.

At any rate, I *like* Ian Rush...8^)

A couple of questions:

	First, what prompts your (any of you from the other side of the
	pond) support of a certain team?  Is it that they play where you were
	brought up?  (ie home town loyalty)?    

	I know Liverpool is in Liverpool, and if I'm not mistaken Arsenel
	plays in/near London...where's Aston Villa play?  (I don't have my
	Rothmans with me.

	Finally, I recognize a lot of the sponsors' names (JVC, Commodore)
	but who/what is Candy...

Thanks in advance...

later,
'Saw

    Being from Europe originally I grew up kicking a soccer ball.  The
    reason that I started following The Reds was that I went to an English
    high school.  The first teams I remember were with Heighway (sp),
    Souness (sp), Kevin Keegan, Clements (has some great battles with
    Peter Shilton for best keeper) etc.  Their attcking style, and team
    play was what caught my eye.

    The reason I started supporting Arsenal is quite a funny one.
    
    Back in 1971, when I was living in Winnipeg, I made the Junior High
    School Soccer team. During the summer, they showed Highlights of
    the FA cup final where Arsenal beat Liverpool, thus clinching the
    'Double'.
    
    Now, my Dad called me in to watch some 'real Football'. I didn't
    particularily like Arsenal, and when Charlie George scored the
    winning goal, and laid down on his back, arms held high, I thought
    "What an big headed git !".
    
    My Dad was always a Southampton supporter (comeing from near there)
    so I decided to support Southampton too. You know how when we were
    kids, and played games at the local sandlot, and we always said
    "Were (whatever the best team is for that sport)". Well when we
    played soccer, I always said "Were Arsenal, the best team in England".
    
    When we moved back to England, I was always being asked "Who do
    you support ?" I could never remember Southampton, so I said Arsenal.
    And it stuck.               
    
    BTW I think Candy manufacture Dishwashers, and I presume other 'White'
    goods.
    
    Wayne

    Anyone seen Crystal Palace play??
    
    They are sponsored by Richard Branson's company and have to wear
    shirts that say...
    
    			VIRGIN  !!!!
             
    P.J.
    
    
    P.S.  They are playing in this weekends FA Cup Final against Manchester
    United at Wembley Stadium.  They are underdogs, but watch out for
    a pair of strikers called Wright and Bright - they might just cause
    a few surprises.
    
    How did I become and Arsenal fan ??  Back in the late 60s when I
    was getting interested in soccer, my father was a Chelsea supporter
    and - surprise, surprise - their big rivalry was against ARSENAL.
    Simple really!!
    
    Actually, soccer fans are a very different breed to any other sports
    fan and needs to be discussed at length....but not today...my boss
    just walked in!!!  

P.J.

I know that Liverpool beat Crystal Palace once this year, but didn't
they knock off the Reds in the FA?

It should be an interesting final.  I hope that ESPN carries it live
like they did last year.

Crystal Palace is an interesting name for a team, I must say.

I still would like nothing better to get to England some day, take
in a match on a nice afternoon, and then spend the evening drinking
pints in a pub....


'Saw

    Earlier this season Crystal Palace went to Anfield and were demolished
    9-0 on live TV.  When the semi-final draw put Crystal Palace vs.
    Liverpool, Palace saw this as their revenge.  They were fired up
    for the game and won 4-3 (in extra time).
    
    IMHO, however, that was the highlight of their season and the FA
    Cup Final tomorrow will be just a bonus.  Manchester United on the
    other hand have had a dreadful season and need to win the Cup to
    salvage themselves, the team, the manager, etc.
    
    TRIP TO UK ???
    
    You're always welcome....if you make it during the soccer season
    (late August to mid May), I'll make sure you get to a game!!  But
    you may have to watch ARSENAL as I'm a season ticket holder.
    
    PJ

Well, if nothing else, Palace knows they spoiled Liverpool's bid
for the double.

I was very surprised at Manchester United's play this year....

Well, PJ, I wouldn't mind taking in an ARSENAL game ;^), the question
is when I can get the money saved to get over there...

Gee, any British firms need any BASEstar DAS work done????? 8^)

cheers,
'Saw

    Do I know football, or do I know football?    (That's 'Soccer to
                                                        y'all)
    
    I'm going to indulge in a bit of back slapping today... In my notes
    .14 and .22, I suggested that you should keep an eye out for a few
    players - like Manchester United's Bryan Robson and Crystal Palace's
    Ian Wright.  Well, did anyone see Saturday's Cup Final???
    
    3 of the 6 goals scored, were by these two players!!  Not a bad
    prediction!!! (Now if only I could have made some $$$ on it!!)
    
    FA CUP FINAL
    
    		Manchester United  3     Crystal Palace  3
    
    
    Not a bad game considering...(Cup Finals are often like Superbowls
    - ie big disappointments after all the hype).  This game had almost
    everything - lots of goals, open fluid football, georgeous weather.
     The only thing missing was a flash of brilliance that could have
    turned the game and made it truly memorable.  Well, they have the
    chance to do it all again on Thursday evening.
    
    Dutifully submitted,
    Your Overseas Correspondent
    PJ
    
    

Wow, PJ, I'm surprised that Crystal stayed close like that...

One question:  why the replay?  Did they play any extra times on
Saturday?  Last year 'pool took it in 2 et's, so I know they
use that format....


Yesterday I caught the English League Football broadcast of the
games from May 5.  (last league games of 89-90).

It was an impressive broadcast.  Since Liverpool had won the championship
earlier, the feature was Sheffield Wednesday against Nottingham Forest.
The interest in that match was Sheffield trying to avoid relegation.

Wednesday came up short, losing 3-0 to Forest.  Actually, Wednesday
had so many chances to score and just missed by fractions of inches.

The other game that was going on which affected Sheffield Wednesday was
Luton Town vs Derby County.  I believe Luton Town had to win outright
to relegate Sheffield Wednesday.  After the loss to Forest, the
Sheffield supporters stayed in the stands, listening to radios hoping
to hear that Derby had won.  Unfortunately for Sheffield, it was
not to be.  A second half goal by Luton which went just inches inside
the post gave Luton a 3-2 win over Derby, thus relagating Sheffield 
Wednesday to division 2.

The Sheffield supporters were crying and were really down...

Other notes of interest (at least for Liverpool fans) was there
6-1 thrashing of Coventry City.  Kenny Dalglish suited up and played
in the second half.  Ian Rush scored a goal from long distance, Barnes
put on a clinic, and the short highlight clip was fun to watch...

So, another season ends, and I'm sure all of Englands eyes are now
turning to Italy to see how their national team does in the World
Cup....

'Saw

I'm so disappointed that ESPN did not show the game.  Why do they feel
    that tractor pulls or fishing is so important I will never understand.
    With the World Cup starting in a month you would think that someone
    would have shown it ? Wrestling, tractor pulls, fishing, bowling,
    skeet shooting, are a waste of airtime.

I was bummed out too.  They showed it last year.....

Perhaps no one would sponsor it, I don't know.

'Saw

'Saw,

Yup, they played two extra time periods, but since there was no victory, they
replay the whole thing.

Actually, I think it's great to replay - it's ten times better than watching
120 minutes of hard football decided by those stupid penalty kicks - gee whiz!

Pretty nifty game, actually.  The game was not a display of technical genius 
by any means - lots of missed passes and scrappy midfield play.  It was 
however, quite full of action and lots of goals.

Also, the English announcer cracks me up every time.  He's got this huge
English accent in French - sort of sounds like David Niven!!  Anyway, aside 
from having a funny accent, that sucker knows the game inside out - he kept 
saying "Don't see Wright warming up for Palace", "No sign that Wright might
come in the game, and, finally, in desperation, "I can't imagine why they've
waited all this time to put Wright in".  Of course, finally they do put 
Wright in when things start to look black for Palace, and the sucker scores
two goals!!

Finally, I haven't seen English football in since last year's Cup and had
forgotten how sportsmanlike the players were with a couple of minor 
exceptions.  All handshakes, hair tussles, and whathaveyou between opponents.
Nice to see for a change.  I personally am getting so sick of this Italian
dive-and-pretend-your-dead-and-then-get-up-and-run-around-two-minutes-later
business.  Hopefully, the World Cup will also take this kind of spirit.

rick 

    Extra time is not sudden death OT.
    
    The game is extended by two 15 minute periods, with the teams switching
    at halftime. If after extra time the score is still even, the
    organisers have the option (I believe) of going to a replay or a
    penalty-shoot-out.   Note: this is decided months in advance - not
    in the heat of the moment.
    
    In Scotland, the Scottish Cup was decided on penalties after Aberdeen
    and Celtic played 120 minutes of scoreless football. I believe the
    decision was made because a lot of the players involved in the Cup
    were also involved in International Games for their country and
    a replay would have interferred with these international games.
    (As Italy is around the corner, preparation for the World Cup is
    deemed to be more important than replaying the Scottish Cup.)
    
    BTW, If the Man United / Palace replay on thurs is level after
    full-time, they will play and extra 30 minutes (15 minutes each
    way) and then go to penalties.  The reason for this is that there
    are three (possibly four) England players that have World Cup duties.
    
    The reason why it wasn't shown live in the Good 'ol US of A, is
    because y'all would rather watch rodeo, and wrasslin'.  I kid you
    not....there is not sufficient demand for televised soccer - certainly
    the sponsors don't think so.  I suggest you get out your pens and
    paper and write to Procter & Gamble, J&J, Budweiser, McDonalds,
    etc and demand that they sponsor soccer on TV.
    
    	"I want my soccer on TV"
    	"I want my soccer on TV"	(Sung rather losely to the strains
    					of Dire Straits "I want my MTV")
    
    PJ
    

    What worries me is that the US will host the World Cup in '94, but
    yet the American public has not followed it as closely as football
    or baseball (ZZZZ).
    
    It would be great for one of the major networks to devote ten minutes
    a week showing all the European soccer highlights of the week. It
    would help promote soccer as a sport, and also demonstrate what
    kind of athletes soccer players are.

The state of the Union:

	I was disappointed because last year ESPN did show the
	FA Cup final live.  This year they didn't.  Because ESPN
	is located not far from here, I may give them a call and/or
	write them a letter voicing my displeasure.

	As it stands right now, SportsChannel America is broadcasting
	the English League Soccer program that I used to pick up 
	on SUPER channel when I was in Europe.  I'd like to see
	them pick up that other show I used to watch Gillette Soccer
	Scene.

	
I actually got a kick out of one of the announcers during the 
Sheffield Wednesday - Nottingham Forest fixture.  He said
"like the Americans would say, this one might go right down to the
wire"...

re the World Cup...I think that by that time there will be enough
awareness here.  There is increased awareness of the Cup now in
a lot of different media here, and SportsChannel has been carrying
a lot of the friendlies.  Turner Broadcasting will be carrying
the Cup games too, I believe...

FWIW,
'Saw

    re: .32
    
    It will take more than 10 minutes a week to show European highlights!!!
    
    PJ

re more than 10 minutes...


Yeah, agreed.  That's why I'd like to see the Gillette Soccer Scene.

The review all the scores from the different European leagues, interspersed
with selected highlights.  They also show the tables.

It would be a good companion to English League Soccer...

'Saw

Well, last night the US team managed to salvage a draw against
Dutch League Champions Ajax (pronounced eye-ax).

Granted, Ajax did not have some of their powerhouse players, but
they were pretty awesome nonetheless.

The US gave up a goal early on that I did not see, but the announcers
kept referring to it as a miscue, so I'm assuming that it must
have been major....(Side Note - these US announcers don't know shit
about soccer...their comments are pretty banal and redundant)

At any rate, the game was drawn on some late heroics by John Harkes,
but not after the CLEMSON REF(tm) almost jobbed us.  On a clear
trip in the area, he awarded an indirect kick, which is only awarded
for obstruction or dangerous play.  Any fool with two eyes could see
it was a trip, and should have resulted in a penalty shot.  With
a modicum of luck it could have been 2-1 US.

My impressions of the US are pretty mixed.  They swarmed all over
the Ajax offensive end for most of the game yet didn't seem to be
able to finish it off.  Accustomed to seing English League play,
I was expecting to see a couple of strikers in front of the next after
the winger would bust his butt to get a cross off, yet so many times
they strikers seemed to be lagging behind.

For a lot of the game, Ajax dominated the mid-field play, but as the US
turned it up a notch that kind of evened out.

Again, on corners, the US didn't seem to have many guys in the vicinity
of the goal, and I'm wondering about this particular coaching strategy.
And on the indirect from inside the area, there weren't too many
players who looked to be able to try to rush in and make something happen.
Clearly, not what I'm used to seeing...

The US final game prior to going to Italy is Sunday, in the Yale Bowl
in New Haven, against Partizan Belgrade...

    Are dem announcers that Shameful MAlighn guy and that other dead head.
    
    They don't know nuthin

    
    'Saw,
    
    Egypt, who England play in the preliminary rounds in Italy, beat
    Scotland 1-3 the other night. They too 'Swarmed' all over the Scots
    who were forced to give up two silly goals in the first half, and
    in the second, after Scotland pulled one back, one of their players
    who was only on the field because a 'better' player was injured,
    scored a goal that would have graced any tournament. It was a beaut.
    
    The message here is 'Dont treat any of the 'Makeweights' too lightly,
    or they will crucify you.
    
    I'm glad Holland have to play them first !                       
    
    The Republic of Ireland scraped a 1-1 draw against Finland, while
    England extended their unbeaten run by beating Denmark 1-0 at
    Wembly.
    
    England were very shaky in the first half, and were lucky not to
    be 0-3 down. England were without Robson and Webb, so Mcmahon and
    Hodge filled their places. Overall, Mcmahon, Barnes, Butcher, Waddle
    and Stevens had poor games. I think that England should not play
    Barnes Waddle and Gasgoine together, good as they all are. I think
    they would do better if they fielded Robson and two more from Mcmahon,
    Webb or Hodge (probably the latter two) and two from Barnes Waddle
    and Gazza. I think that Tony Dorigo will do a good job at Left Back
    but I bet he's not picked. 
              
    England play Uraguay next Tuesday and then on to Italy via Tunisia.
    
    Wayne                     

    What happened in the replay of the English Cup ? 

    Any interest among any of the noters (I know this is late!) in trying
    to get together to go to the game in New Haven on Sunday?
    
    A&W

United 1 Palace 0

Wasn't as exciting as last game...

avagooweeken,
 
rick

re Scotland vs Egypt...

	Was Layton in goal for Scotland?  Are Mo Jo and Nicol
	on the team still?

re A&W:

	I'm tempted to go, but am as of yet still undecided.
	The US style of play is still frustrating to me...
	They show flashes of brilliance with some of their passes,
	but too many times it seems the midfielders are trying
	to run the gamut.  I'm surprised they got away with
	that against Ajax...

	Their set plays on kicks don't seem to be what I'm used
	to either.


To whomever:

	I can't remember what team Harkes had a tryout with 
	(Sheffield Wednesday?  Luton Town?)  Anyway, do any of
	you know if he had that tryout and how he did?

	Some European league experience would do out nationals good....

'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    No, it wasn't Leighton in goal. Can't remember who it was, but he
    was BAD. Mo Johnstone was injured, don't know about Nicol.
    
    The Scottish Manager put a tem out that he thought would score 
    lots of goals against the 'minnows' of the world cup. He sure
    got that wrong.
    
    Wayne.

    Why does the US not field its professional soccer players ?  Granted
    they are mostly indoor players, but they have talent and would whip
    the national team if given a chance.  In fact they challenged the
    national team to a game just to show that they should be considered,
    but their offer was turned down.  Instead the US team will go Italy
    and probably fifnish in the bottom.  C'mon fellas send your best
    team, and make your country proud!!!!
    
    The only way to get the US public excited about soccer is to have
    a winning or at least competitive team.

I think the US needs to re-examine it's choice of coach.  Oh that
we could import Kenny Dalglish for this job!  ;^)

First off, the Coach picks the team (I believe -- that's the way
it's done in other countries).  There's a fellow on the Bolts
who a lot of people have been ranting about for a while for not
being picked, Don Donnegan.  From what I've seen of him he is 
very good.

We do have talent on our team.  The goalies are very good.  I think
that our talent would be sufficient to do well if the coaching
were there. 

I was sitting there last night watching and saying to myself
"Liverpool would do this", or "Arsenal would do that", and I was
beside myself to think that our coaching is so poor as not to
be able to see that.

So many times one of our wingers would be booking down the sideline
with the ball.  He'd work his ass off (literally) to make a cross
and I'd see one striker surrounded by three Ajax players.  

Granted, even if Ajax was playing a more defensive game trying to
hold the 1 - Nil lead, the US team should have had more players at
least in the box.  No player is gonna beat three defenders...

On our indirect kick in the box (BTW that call still burns me), ajax
had 4 or 5 guys in the wall.  We had two near the ball, one marked
near the penalty spot and no one else that I could see.  Get the
damned guys up there...they have to watch for offsides, but any players
worthy of being on the national team should be able to do that!

We need a lot of work on our corner kicks too.

I think we've got a waste of the talent we have with poor coaching....

'Saw


re Scotland:

	I figured Leighton  wasn't in goal 8^)  I saw him in the 
	qualifier against France in early '89 and he was unconscious
	on some of the save....great player.  that was the game
	Mo Jo scored both goals...

    Hey 'Saw, the goalies better be good judging by the quality of teams
    in the World Cup.

They are...  Keller made some PHENOMENAL saves last night to keep them
in it.  Meola is very aggressive....

'Saw

    England lost their 6 year run of being undefeated at Wembly Stadium,
    and their 17 match unbeaten run, by losing to Uraguay, 1-2 here
    last night. England started with the same formation that played
    against Denamrk but used a few different players. Bryan Robson replaced
    Steve McMahon, and Paul Parker replaced Gary Stevens.
    
    This was a mutch better England performance, despite the loss. Barnes
    and Waddle both looked very sharp, but Robson looked a little jaded,
    though understandably.
    
    England should have scored on quite a few occaisions, and the goals
    conceded were, for the most part, giveaways.
    
    The first, a long range header, resulted when an England attack
    broke down leaving Parker stranded at the wrong end of the ground,
    and the second, a fierce free kick curled around the wall that Shilton
    got his hands to, but could only push into the net. Shilton was
    very annoyed with himself, which suggests that he could have stopped
    it.
    
    Uraguay looked prettyr good, and there were not too many signs of
    their cynicsism (sp?), although a beautiful run by Gasgoine was
    rather cynically stopped. The resultant free kick close to a goal
    similar to the Uraguayan goal later in the match, but the keeper
    saved it.
    
    I think that this game has done England the world of good. Now
    they can concentrate on the task at hand, instead of prolonging
    a great run.
    
    Judging by the performances, I think that this is the team that
    England will field in Italy;
    
    Shilton
     Stevens
      Walker
       Butcher
        Pearce
         Gasgoine
          Robson
           Waddle
            Hodge
             Barnes
              Lineker
    
    Wayne            
    
    P.S.
    Good Luck England !
    

Wayne, 

Who's the reserver goalie for England?  Any idea?

'Saw

    The English play some of the best soccer in the world, but when
    it comes to the World Cup they just seem to underachieve.  do the
    English fans like that as weell, and if so is it a coaching problem?
    
    If one was to look at West Germany, their players are not as talented
    as the English but yet they are consistantly in the semis.  what
    do y'all think ?

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I'm too far removed from the
European scene to have, perhaps, all the facts, but here's what I think.

Due to the hooliganism problem, England has been banned from European
play for quite some time now.  That does not prevent them from
competing for the Cup and qualifying, but I believe they are not
eligible for things like the European Cup, and the European Cup Winners Cup.

Lack of this high level of competition surely affects their performance.

I'm sure some of my facts are sketchy, so apologies to any English readers
who I might have offended.  I'll glady be corrected if I'm way off base...

'Saw

    Chris Woods of Rangers(Scottish Champions) and Graham Seaman,
    (formerly of Queens Park Rangers, now of Arsenal) are Englands
    reserve keepers. Woods is O.K.
    
    Wayne.

    The ban has been in effect for only the last few years, but yet
    England has not distingiushed themselves in the last 20 years.

Well, occasionally I've heard complaints about coaching, but again,
I'm not close enough to know...

'Saw

    Plain and simple the expectations of the England team are far too
    high...particularly from the media(newspapers and TV) and their
    supporters.
    
    Whoever claims the English game is the most skillful is way off
    the mark. The English game prides itself on physical fitness and
    excitement ie. lot of running,high balls and tackling. However their
    coach Bobby Robson wants their national team to play ala continental
    style ie.controlled passing and pacing. And there lies the dilemma
    and hence to odd defeat at the hands of other international teams
    that play skillfully as second nature like Uruguay. 
    
    Robson has the team at it's best for a long time right now...but
    got unfairly *slated* by the gutter press all of last week and he
    will now be resigning after Italy. I expect England to do well in
    Italy...but NOT win the cup.
    
    The countries with the most skillful leagues and good bets to win
    the WC are Italy,West Germany,Holland,Argentina,Brazil.
    
    But good luck England,Scotland and the Republic of Ireland.

    - Dave K.

    Dave,
    
    I would love to know your source of information.
    
>    Plain and simple the expectations of the England team are far too
>    high...particularly from the media(newspapers and TV) and their
>    supporters.                                                      
 
    I have not come across a single article in any of the Serious Media
    (newspapers and TV) that claim anything other than England have
    the capabilities to do well. As a fan, and in contact with other
    fans, we have reasons to be at best 'optomistic' about our chances.
    
    Who, in the England Camp, has said they expect to win ? I haven't
    heard it. They have all said they hope to do well, and all feel
    confident. I would worry if they didn't feel confident.
    
    I for one do not think we WILL win the cup, but I believe that we
    CAN win the cup.
                    
>    Whoever claims the English game is the most skillful is way off
>    the mark. The English game prides itself on physical fitness and
>    excitement ie. lot of running,high balls and tackling. However their
>    coach Bobby Robson wants their national team to play ala continental
>    style ie.controlled passing and pacing. And there lies the dilemma
>    and hence to odd defeat at the hands of other international teams
>    that play skillfully as second nature like Uruguay.                 
 
    I do not, and will not, claim that the English game is the most
    skillful. However, the English game consists of far more than fitness,
    lots of running and high balls. Tackling ???? Name one team that
    doesn't. Ask 'Saw about how often Liverpool uses high balls ? They
    are an excellant example of controlled passing and pacing. In the
    England Team, we have a multitude of players, all of whom are,were
    or would be coveted in any European team.
     
    Chris Waddle, plays for Marseille, just won the French Championship.
    
    John Barnes, plays for Liverpool, just won the English Champioship,
    		 rumoured to be off to Italy next season.
    
    Gary Lineker, plays for Tottenham Hotspur, finished third in the
    		 English league, after a bad start. Could be next years
    		 Champions. Played for Barcelona, won Spanish Championship.
    
    Paul Gasgoine, plays for Tottenham, will be in great demand after
    		 Italy, irrespective of how England do.
    
    Des Walker,  plays for Nottingham Forest. This world cup will show
    		 just how good this guy really is ! Will probably be
    		 tempted by a European club.
    
    Chris Woods, Goalkeeper for Rangers, IMO BETTER than Shilton, probably
    		 the best in the world !
    
    All are VERY skillful players, AND they are fit, can Run and Tackle!
    A pretty good combination, don't you think ?
    
    Its a good thing that Robson wants us to play that way, for that
    is the only way we COULD win.
    
>    Robson has the team at it's best for a long time right now...but
>    got unfairly *slated* by the gutter press all of last week and he
>    will now be resigning after Italy. I expect England to do well in
>    Italy...but NOT win the cup.                                     
 
    I would be very surprised if any of this has affected the players
    in any way OTHER than to maybe give them more conviction ("Lets
    do it for Bobby !")
    I tend to agree with this last remark though. But having said that,
    you never know. On the day, its eleven men against eleven men.
    
    I personally feel that England, because of their poor showing two
    years ago, are under estimated, and that they just MIGHT cause one
    or two upsets. I think that the top teams are not as 'All Powerfull'
    as they are made out to be, and are riding, more so than England,
    on the crest of Media Hype.
    
    Again, I am not saying that we WILL win, or even that we deserve
    to win. I am not saying that we won't get beaten by the Republic
    of Ireland, and/or Holland again. I am only saying that we CAN
    win, and that we have a better chance than people think.
    
    Good Luck to ALL teams in the world cup. Lets hope its a good, fair
    and entertaining one.
    
    Wayne
    

I take it that "slated" is term meaning "bashed"?


On another front, I read a review of the Cup division that the USA is
in, by Jerry Trekker, the Hartford Courant Soccer columnist.

In Trekker's opinion, he doubts that the US National team will score a goal
in the Cup, let alone win or draw a game.

After watching them in some of their friendlies I would almost agree.
What I see from this team is too much individual effort at midfield, where
some of that Liverpool passing [8^)] would be more effective, and their
set plays seem very strange.  On corners there's hardly anyone in the
area, and when the ball is kicked they tend to try and run in.  Personally,
I think that's kind of dumb....

So, it will be interesting to see how we do.  Obviously, our best chances
are against Austria and the Czechs.   I'm almost afraid to think of
how bad it will be against Italy....

'Saw

......or having fun at a soccer tournament.

'Our boys' played in the U-19's division in the Clifton Park, NY soccer 
tournament this past weekend.  If you have kids who play soccer, and are
looking into tournament play, I cannot recommend this one highly enough.
It is beautifully organized, well reffed (as kids get older, this gets
more and more critical), the fields are in great shape, and the level of 
competition is excellent.  There are over 100 teams represented, and all 
teams are guaranteed a minimum of four games.  This year, they had teams 
from Denmark, Austria, Canada, the US and I believe West Germany.  Of all 
the tournaments I've been to over the years, this one is my favorite, and
we've been to several (including this one) more than once. 

I think I may have just gone to my last soccer tournament with this team.
The goalie is off to college in September, as are one of our strikers and
one mid-fielder.  I'm not at all confident in our ability to keep the team
in the field next spring, which is an historic problem with high-school
seniors.  I'll miss it - this team included parents and siblings in a way
that is rare in this day.  Any of the kids, players and siblings, felt free
to approach any of the parents for help/food/what have you, and got it.  
Even more amazing, discipline was a joint effort as well - rowdy kids simply
weren't tolerated by anyone, and our standards were remarkably congruent.
If any adult put up a stop sign, the bad activity stopped, right then and
without argument.  We stayed together off the field as well as on, while 
watching the kids grow up and get more and more independent.  Even the 
parents with other kids on other teams agree that this team is something
special.

Our first game was Saturday morning at 8:00 am.  This meant we had to be in
the motel parking lot, ready to go, at 7:00 am.  I am not a happy camper at
that hour.  Turned out the boys weren't either.  The game was *awful*, it
was as if zombies had inherited their bodies.  Passes went to the other team,
all defensemen were consistently passed, nobody seemed to have a coherent
thought in their head, they bunched up on the ball or gave up after a first
missed attempt.  General horror show, bad enough that the spectators were
talking about giving up and going home right then and there.  The other team
won by far-too-many to none.

There were two hours before the next game.  We all stayed at the field, the
boys went to get something to eat, and apparently they sat down and talked
out what to do.  Our sweeper moved to striker (!), we shuffled a couple of
mid-fielders, and they generally got themselves pumped up.  Second game was
a complete reversal of the first in terms of play.  Every pass went *to*
somebody, the defense stopped guys in their tracks at about the center field
line, the ball got carried down into the offensive end wide on the wings with
some beautiful crossing passes.  We only got one goal, but it was enough.
Spectators stopped revolting and decided maybe there was hope after all.

Two and a half hours later, we came up against Hartford.  Unfortunately, we
played them earlier in the spring at another tournament, in a poorly
officiated game.  They had destroyed us.  We were still intimidated.  (FYI,
this team carries a semi-deserved reputation as being a 'dirty' team.
There have apparently been instances in the past, although not against us, 
where post-game fighting between this team and it's opponent have required the 
services of police and/or emergency ambulance service for the refs and
players.)  They were bigger and faster than we are, very willing to go for
the push-and-shove, and inclined to do the type of play-acting injury when
on defense that was so abhorrent in the World Cup.  Most of the push-and-
shove was caught by the ref and called correctly.  One player got yellow
carded for offensive language, another for excessive roughness.  We played a 
very defensive game, with most of the mid-field unwilling to go forward in 
support of our forwards when they did manage to get a breakaway.  The result 
was that we lost, 2-0, although the second goal didn't occur until the last 
two minutes, so we were within sight of a tie for most of the game.

Sometime during the afternoon, the Goodyear blimp came over and cruised the
playing fields.  (There were at least 7 full-size and 2 U-8's size fields
in our complex, plus another complex within a mile with about 12 fields.)
This is the first time that I've seen that thing 'up close and personal' 
and it was quite a sight.  Now I know where SF movies get the ominous looking
'enemy' air craft.  A blimp head-on looks remarkably like a large torpedo.
Not as quiet as I had expected either - the motor they use to maintain
direction is quite noisy.

After the third game, we all trooped back to the hotel and gathered around 
the pool.  Boys went off on their own with money in their pockets for supper, 
and orders to be *in their own rooms* by 10:00 pm.  (Yes, they all made it 
back, although there was some hunting by parents for particular kids until 
about 10:30.)  Team shirts were collected by a couple of younger sisters, 
run through the wash by two moms, and returned by younger brother/younger 
sisters to the players (none of these the same family) before dinner.  Then 
the parents got together and went to dinner.  By the way, all but 2 boys
had at least one parent in attendance.  (And 1 brought along his girl 
friend, in addition to his folks.)

Ever try walking into a restaurant with 14 adults and 7 kids at 7:00 on a 
Saturday night, no reservations?  It wasn't like that.  We were seated
immediately, whole meal went smoothly, the food was great, the bill was
paid without problem.  In fact, we had about a 25 or 30% tip when we were
done passing the bill and collecting the money.  Very pleasant, relaxing
evening all around.

Sunday morning, because of our placement the day before, we got the 8:00 am 
game again.  This was the start of the knock-out phase, lose and you go home. 
Again, a beautifully played, attacking game by both sides.  Lots of good
sportsmanship, crisp passing, hard running, good shot opportunities.  This 
was the game that brought home to me just how much we miss the kids who are
on the select teams this spring - they include all the boys who get the goals
during the high school season.  We simply didn't have anyone on the team with
experience in finishing, which turned out to be critical.  We lost 1-0, but
didn't feel horrible about it because the play had been so very, very good.
The result truly was luck, and not a big difference in talent.

Stayed on for a while to watch some of the other teams play.  Watched the
Hartford team lose in another very tough, exciting game.  The refs were
right on top of the play, called *everything*, yellow-carded a player for
abusive language towards a player on the other team.  Hartford lost, and
as a couple of players went to confront the ref at the end of the game, the
tournament organizers were *right there* to get the ref off the field and
the players out of the picture.  Defused what could have been a very bad
situation immediately.

Watched some of a Danish U-14's team play.  (We played a Danish team last
year in Oneanta and were very impressed with them.)  Interestingly, it 
wasn't a great game, but there was a very clear difference in style between
the US team and the Danish one.  The Danes were very disciplined, played
great positional play, knew where each other were supposed to be at all
times.  They had very good ball handling skills.  They didn't do any 
substituting during the game, which leads to a fairly conservative energy
expenditure, especially in the heat and humidity we had Sunday.  (US youth 
soccer allows unlimited substitution on out-of-play balls, which is used 
freely in tournaments particularly.)  They were also totally flummoxed by 
the US style.  The US team didn't have the skill level of the Danes, but
made up for it by running hard, not backing off from contact, and doing
lots of switching and running forward from defensive positions.  I don't
know who won, but it was a zip-zip tie when we left with about ten minutes
to go.

I have the impression that we will see more and more international teams,
particularly here on the East Coast and in the older age groups, over the 
next four years.  When we were at this tournament 3 years ago, there were
international teams, but from fewer countries.  The first time we were in
Oneanta, there were no international teams, last year there was one (and it
is a much smaller tournament).  My guess is that this is part of the 
preparation for the World Cup - get players over here so they find out what
to expect off the field.

I wish I thought I'd have the opportunity to do this again.  It's been a 
fun time fellas - best of luck to all of you, and thank you for teaching
me about a great game.

A&W   

great note...

Brought back some of the tourneys I used to play in.....

John

Glad to see that the ref was on those rowdies from Hartford.

There's no place for that in the game.  The coaches I played 
for would make you run lotsa laps for any expletive stronger
than "damn".

'Saw

    re:  ....those rowdies from Hartford
    
    bunch of animals!!!!
    
    

If the group is chosen from some of the teams I think they are,
then they are pretty bad. (meaning sportsmanship)

I don't condone cheap stuff on a soccer field.  If you can't do it
better than the other guy, don't cheat.

Physical initimidation can work, if the ref isn't controlling the
game.  Psychological intimidation works only if you let it.

If you can't do it clean, don't bother...
'Saw

    'Saw -
    
    You've probably got the right teams in mind.
    
    Throughout the years, over and over, the word that comes back to us
    from tournament officials is that they really appreciate our team's
    sportsmanship.  The boys were taught early and often that teams which
    resort to the 'cheap stuff' are the ones which don't have skill.  And
    I'd rather watch a clean loss than a win through physical intimidation.
    
    A&W

A&W,

When I first started playing I played goalie.  Being a skinny kid (yeah, 
I know you wouldn't know it now, but back then you could count every
rib I had) I used to take a lot of elbows, and get banged around a lot.

I learned two things.  First off, I learned that the more abuse I got
from opposing strikers and midfielders, the better I would play.
If that didn't do it, I'd very descretely dole out a little abuse
of my own.  I only blew my cool and went after a guy once, and
fortunately for me (and maybe the other guy) one of my backs tackled
me before I got too far.

Bottom line though, it's much better to do it clean.

'Saw

The word 'soccer' is said to have arisen out of the habit prevalent
at Oxford University of adding 'er' to certain words like togs (toggers),
swots or mugs (swotters or muggers).

Toward the end of the 19th century, the game was always referred to
as Association Football to differentiate between it and Rugby Football,
but it was at Oxford that they took 'soc' out of Association and then
turned this into 'soccer'.  

The word is often attributed to one of Oxford University's most famous
internationals, Charles Wreford Brown.  When asked one day if he
was going to play rugger, he replied 'No -- soccer'.


-- from Soccer Shorts, by Jack Rollin