Conference 7.286::sports_90

    Dale - 
    
    I thought that Al Davis made a VERY GOOD POINT at halftime, 
    in saying that the Broncos never established any rhythm.  They seemed
    herky jerky.  I think he's right on this point.  Fortunately, Elway 
    has enough "sand-lot" in him to wing it and still win the game.  
    
    I also liked the shot of Reeves on the sideline after a score with his
    clenched fist, yanking it back and forth, as if to say
    "AAAHHHLLLright!!"
    
    It was a good game and pretty darn entertaining.
    
    Oh yea!  Now with NBC not doing anymore football, Bobby Bethard can get
    to work as the Charger GM.
    
    Live from Charger Central....
    
    Glenn

    	Before annointing Elway look at the last three games the Browns
    played.  Moon, Kelly then Elway all looked like God in cleats against
    the supposedly talent laden Cleveland secondary.  Two of these three
    Qb's had sub-standard years.  The Broncos defense didn't look that
    impressive.  Many of the Brown's receivers were wide open, but Kosar
    did his best Tony Eason impression yesterday.  I bet the Broncos
    and didn't feel comfortable until late in the 4th quarter.  As far
    as the Niners go I said last week that if the Rams defense played
    like they did against the Giants it would be a blowout.  They did
    and it was.
    
    				/Don

    
    I though Everett did a better Eason, Sacking himself.....
    
    can elway get his head through the door today>?????/
    
    boy wasn't he just the picture of niceness there with the reports
    after the game/////

    	Mike, that Everett "sack" was pretty funny.  Tony Eason was the
    first word out of everyone's mouth.
    
    				/Don

     Typical of a Dawg fan !!  Can't give credit where credit is
    due.  I have one thing to say to you Pound Puppy fans....
    The Broncos are going to N'oleans and the Dawgs are going to
    the Pound,  Again  !!!!
    
    
    Go Broncos
    
    
    Big Game
    

       Another Big10 QB chokes in the big one!
                                          Denny

    
    Steven, you probably enjoyed the shots of his wife too...
      
    you're right on about that Browns' defense though geez I thought
    it was the oilers out there... ;^)
    
    
    ;^)
    
     when are these teams going to learn keep that boy in the pocket....
    
    

    
    easy Steven, I was yankin your chain with the mrs ed stuff....
    
    
    
    cause thanks to the french poodles, I can't yank it on the game....
    
    mike

    Hey Mikey......
    
     See ya changed you P-Name !!
    
    ;^)
    
    Big Game

    
    yeah Catci, I made a special trip in saturday just to make sure I got
    done before the game so I could get in some fional digs without the
    p-name and I had missed the note that said the system would be down
    over the weekend.....
    
    so what do ya think of what I offered JBC? same for you.....
    1 week vs a month think about it.........
    
    mike

    No Way, Aye !!!   Take off you Hoser !!
    
    Big Game

    Why was Cleveland penalized when Elway got speared? Just 5 minutes
    before, Kosar got the same treatment and there was no call.
    
    Rich
    

    
    Because it was in Denver.

RE: .15

>    Why was Cleveland penalized when Elway got speared? Just 5 minutes
>    before, Kosar got the same treatment and there was no call.

Although I never saw the replay, I would have to assume it was because
Elway slid baseball-stye (feet first) and Kosar DIDN'T (he attempted some
sort of half-roll, half-hook slide, but didn't try it soon enough).  No 
favoritism at all involved.

This is one rule I could live without anyway.  I think anyone that puts on 
the pads, is by default, willing to accept the pain/pleasure that goes with
hitting/being hit.  Now I'm not talking about having open season on QBs
just 'cause they have pads on, but there has to be a better way of letting
the players play.

I DO however agree with protecting the QB when he is in the pocket.  Especially
if he's being blind-sided by someone like LT.

Besides, Elway's one of the toughest QBs to ever play the game.  He's taken
some monstrous hits this season and always comes back; 'course his scrambling
makes him more vulnerable than most (save for Cunningham).

Dale

    Not so, Dale, Bernie performed what is known as a hook slide which
    is supposed to be acknowledged as a "save the QB" slide. In addition,
    the Denver player who hit him did so with his helmet ala "SPEAR".
    
    If you saw the replays between the two hits (on Elway and Kosar),
    they were nearly identical. I supported the penalty called on Cleveland
    because it was an obvious spear. What I didn't support was the lack
    of a call on Denver.
    
    As far as Elway being a tough QB, I will agree that the guy can
    take a hit. But I would have to say that Warren Moon takes the most
    vicious hits in the entire NFL due to the cheap tactics emplotyed
    by many of his teammates. Majkowkski takes some bad ones up in Green
    Bay, too. Add Steve Grogan, Ken O'Brien and Vinny Testaverde to
    the list along with Phil Simms and Jack Trudeau.
    
    John Elway is a tough QB but please refrain from this "toughest
    in the league" hype. Terry Bradshaw or Joe Namath took harder hits
    in 1 year than Elway has taken in his entire career.
    
    Rich
    

RE: .18

>   Not so, Dale, Bernie performed what is known as a hook slide which
>    is supposed to be acknowledged as a "save the QB" slide. In addition,
>    the Denver player who hit him did so with his helmet ala "SPEAR".
    
If in fact he did spear KOSAR, then you're right.

>    If you saw the replays between the two hits (on Elway and Kosar),
>    they were nearly identical. I supported the penalty called on Cleveland
>    because it was an obvious spear. What I didn't support was the lack
>    of a call on Denver.
    
As I said in the previous reply, I didn't see the replay (and it didn't look
identical at full speed), but the ref obviously thought Bernie didn't hook 
fast enough.
    
>    John Elway is a tough QB but please refrain from this "toughest
>    in the league" hype. Terry Bradshaw or Joe Namath took harder hits
>    in 1 year than Elway has taken in his entire career.

Not to turn this into a pi%%ing contest, but I said Elway was ONE of the
toughest QBs to play the game.  And I don't see how Namath might have taken
harder hits in one year that Elway has his whole career.  Joe Willie had
the quickest release of any QB (except maybe Marino), so it's hard to recall
whether he took all that many cheap shots.  Bradshaw though, I can see taking
more than his share of hard hits in the early years.

Dale
    

    Elway is the toughest QB to ever play the game !!!  ;^)
    
    Jim Everett is a girly mon....  Looked just like Tony
    Eason
    
    
    Jack

    Yeah, that play were Everett fell down skeered was really bad, so bad
    that Madden was even embarassed!
    
    Hawk

       Namath took more hits because they didn't have all the sissy
    Qb rules back then. 
                                           Denny

    	Right on Denny!  That was back when "real" men played football.
    Remember when they first started the "protect the quarterback" rules
    and Jack Lambert said they ought to put a dress on 'em?  Heh, heh,
    heh...
    
    				/Don

    re Dale
    
    Joe Namath had one of the quickest releases ever. But, unlike Marino,
    Namath hung in the pocket and released at the last possible second
    taking the hit. Namath was one of the first to wear a flack jacket
    because of the beating his ribs were taking. Namath's knees were
    cannon fodder for onrushing lineman because he didn't have the quick
    feet of Elway. 
    
    Elway has played with the flack jacket since he came into the NFL.
    Namath played quite a few years without one.
    
    Sorry but I don't see Elway staying in the pocket the way others
    have and do. This does not make him worse or better. In some instances
    he creates offense by buying more time for his receivers. The Bronco
    receivers have benefitted more from Elway's style than anything.
    
    Conversely, Marino, Unitas, Namath depended on precision routes
    by receivers and pinpoint accuracy of their passes.
    
    Please don't misunderstand, Dale, I think last Sunday was an excellent
    example of how good a QB Elway can be. But I still can't see him
    in the same company as some of the others who have played the game.
    
    Rich
    

RE: Rich
    
>    Joe Namath had one of the quickest releases ever. But, unlike Marino,
>    Namath hung in the pocket and released at the last possible second
>    taking the hit. Namath was one of the first to wear a flack jacket
>    because of the beating his ribs were taking. Namath's knees were
>    cannon fodder for onrushing lineman because he didn't have the quick
>    feet of Elway. 
    
I know Joe Willie had bad knees but I wasn't aware he wore a flak jacket
('course that was before my time :-) !)
    
>    Conversely, Marino, Unitas, Namath depended on precision routes
>    by receivers and pinpoint accuracy of their passes.
    
Definitely agree here.  In fact you can add Fouts to this category.  As much
 of a scrambler as Elway is made out to be, he still didn't scramble as much
as Tarkenton (or as long in some cases).  Staubach was another part-time 
scrambler.

>    Please don't misunderstand, Dale, I think last Sunday was an excellent
>    example of how good a QB Elway can be. But I still can't see him
>    in the same company as some of the others who have played the game.
    
Elway is going to have win a couple of Super Bowls before he gets the
respect and recognition that others have.

Dale

    
    If John Elway could play every game against the Browns, he would be
    known as the most talented and clutch quarterback to ever play the game.  
    
    Don't know what it is about the Browns (and contrary to popular belief,
    the Browns defense isn't as pourus as people have come to believe) that
    brings out the best in Elway, but he definetly achieves a different
    level against them.  
    
    Too bad he always comes back with a sub-par game in the Superbowl.
    
    /Jeff

    Elway takes monster hits BECAUSE he's a scrambler. A lot of times
    pocket passers get dragged down or taken down by their jerseys.
    But a scrambler gets lined up and creamed much more. Thats why Elway
    and Cunningham type QB's get plowed into the ground. 
    			Raider_Rich
    

    
    re: -1
    
    Frequent calls of quarterback draws don't help matters either.
    
    

    re Raider_Rich
    
    Perhaps you didn't see Steve Grogan knocked unconcious vs the Jets
    this year as he hung in the pocket. Or Ken O'Brien. Or Majkowski?
    Or Phil Simms? Or Warren Moon?
    
    What makes you think scrambling QB's get hit harder? Maybe once
    a year they'll get a good slam while running with the ball. But
    pocket passers usually get swamped 2 or 3 times a game.
    
    Roger Staubach was taken out of a few games because of a concussion.
    In every instance it was when he was nailed in the pocket - not
    scrambling.
    
    Tommy Kramer had a brilliant career cut short, in my opinion, because
    he was creamed too many times in the pocket.
    
    Yet you claim Elway takes Moster Hits and you also claim pocket
    passers simply get dragged down by their jerseys. When you phone
    Dan Fouts and tell him this, please record his laughter for all
    of us to enjoy.
    
    Rich
    

    
>    Tommy Kramer had a brilliant career cut short, in my opinion, because
>    he was creamed too many times in the pocket.
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Beware the Path of Onan!

And behold!  His seed spilleth upon the barren ground and appeareth to
the Lord to be wasted.  Onan was sore afraid.

In his anger the Lord struck Onan blind, and his eyes were filled with
scales.

But, in the days following, there arose from the ground, in the spot
where Onan had spilleth his seed, a mountain of great proportion and
strength.

On the top of that mountain, in a quiet place bathed in golden sunlight
with warm summer breezes, a man was cutteth out of the flesh of the 
rock.  A man whose lifeblood floweth from the strength of the earth,
and whose lungs filleth with air of the heights.

The man, brought unto the world by the wasting of a seed, was hereafter
known as Chainsaw....

So it was written, So it was done.

The Buzzard sprang forth from the belly of the Whore of Babylon...

;^)

    Rich,
    	I didnt mean to imply that pocket passers ONLY get dragged down.
    The thought was that a scrambler take MORE hits, and from different
    angles. Staubach got more than his share of high elbows from 'backers
    and head-hunting DB's.
    			Raider_Rich