Conference 7.286::sports_90

    In today's USA Today, the Walpole (MA) High School football team is 
    rated at #15 in the nation.  No too shabby for a team that wasn't
    supposed to beat the big, bad Brockton Boxers in the Div. I Super Bowl!
    
    Oh, and the big, bad Boxers didn't even rank an "honorable
    mention".......
    
    Hawk

    Could you print the rest of the top 25?

    A 6'5" junior going to my H.S. is supposed to be one of the top 3
    H.S. women hoop players in the country.  She's averaging 41.5 ppg.
    Wonder where she'll go next year.
    
    -Walt

>    A 6'5" junior going to my H.S. is supposed to be one of the top 3
    
    Do you see her in the hallways often, Walt?  She must be hard to
    miss.  Do you two have any classes together?
    
    

    Is Bruce... I ain't there anymore... just came back from the 10
    year reunion as it is...  win an FFL title and you STILL get no
    respect... and no **'s needed on this or any other one...
    
    There was a write up in the paper about her when I was home.
    
    -Walt

    I was wondering if anyone could tell me about the status of the 
    girl that played center for Nashua High's Number 1 in the USA
    team of 1987...Her first name was Celeste and she ended up 
    going to Stanford...She should be a junior there now...I know
    she was putting in minutes last season, but I haven't heard a
    thing about here this season...
    
    We have a group of guys here at ZK that play hoop during lunch
    down at BG in Nashua, Celeste came down and used to play with
    us...A great player, and certainly competitive...I try to follow
    her in the boxscores, haven't seen her at all...
    
    
    -Mike

    Way to go Winchester high  hockey team.. first win in 5 yrs last
    night.
    
    
    dinz
    

    I'll find out what I can about Celeste.  Stanford was a preseason
    pick for #1 and has been doing well.
         
    Bruce

    Thanks Bruce, I'd appreciate it...I can't remember her last
    name..I'm sure it's French...She was a great player and the 
    primary reason why Nashua only lost one game all 4 years
    she was there....
    
    -Mike

    
    Standford is currently undefeated and ranked #2.  They crushed
    defending national champ Tennessee a few weeks ago.
    
    Bruce

Stanford, eh Bruce....I know how well they're doing...Anyone hear anything about
what Celeste is doing?

-Mike

      Catholic Memorial (Mass.) defeated Mount St. Charles (R.I.) in the
  finals of the annual Providence Journal Xmas (high school) Hockey
  Tournament last night ... 6-1.

      This was a mild upset, as it is the first year a non-RI team has won
  the tournament. CM has been in the tournament 5 years without a win. MSC
  did not win this tourney last year, but has been RI state champs 12 (13 ?)
  years in a row, and has been ranked nationally in previous years by a rating 
  service out of Minnesota.

      CM had won Mass Div I hockey 3 years in a row until knocked off in
  finals last year (by Don Bosco, I think). CM is now 7-0-0, and Mount is
  now 6-2-0 (I believe), having lost in OT to Lasalle Academy a few weeks ago.

      The only public HS in the tourney was Toll Gate (Warwick, RI), who won
  in the opening round, lost to CM in a close 2nd round game, and then won their
  consolation game. TG won last year's Xmas tourney, knocking off CM early.

           PaulB

    And St John's blew a %*^$*&# 3 goal lead against Mount St Charles
    in the semifinals.
    
    John

    Went to the Lowell holiday tournament to see Dracut win the Class B
    title 41-39 over Greater Lowell and Cambridge R&L come from 12 down
    at the half to take Springfield Central and Travis Best 78-74.
    
    I also saw Central in their first round game against WIlbur Cross of
    CT, and they blew them away 104-82, but it wasn't that close.  Central
    led 67-40 at the HALF!  Best and Giddal Padilla had 31 each in that
    game.
    
    Best shot very poorly against Cambridge, and Omo Moses got hot in the
    second half.  Moses (who's going to Pitt next year) is a strong 6-1
    guard with NBA 3 point range.  He hit three of them in the third
    quarter to pull Cambridge even, and foul trouble held Central back
    down the stretch.  Best fouled out, and Giddal's brother, freshman
    starting guard Pedro Padilla also fouled out, in the Third quarter.
    Best lasted until the last two minutes.  Moses led all scorers with
    26 points.
    
    Central is a team to watch, as they start only one senior (Giddal 
    Padilla), two juniors, a sophomore, and a freshman.
    
    NAZZ

      RE: .12, .13


          That St. John's / Mount game was a thriller. It was still tied 
      5-5 until the tail end of the 3rd period, and then StJ took that
      bench penalty ... I never did get it straight as to what they were
      complaining about. But MSC took advantage of the situation quickly,
      scoring on the power play and then an open-netter at the end ... tough
      way to end a good game.

          Thinking back (see .12), StJ defeated Toll Gate in the consolation,
      didn't they ? So Toll Gate went 1-2 in the tourney, not 2-1.

              PaulB

    
    re: Nazz
    
    	I've got all the poop on Central!!  Most in here should remember
    a couple of years ago when I was talking about this kid (Travis
    Best) in Jr. Hi.  Now, Travis is a junior and according to Digger
    Phelps, is the best point guard in the nation (I think he just wants
    Travis to go to ND, because Travis is good, but he isn't the best
    point guard, YET!!).  Travis was one of 5 underclassmen to get invited
    to the Nike Pro Camp where the top seniors (for the upcoming year)
    come to play against each other.  According to a national rag scout,
    Travis tore the camp up.  He excelled at every positon and every
    combination they put him with.  He really is a great ballhandler,
    passer and penetrator, only his long range shooting needs work.
    	I got the pleasure of working a Central JV game this year and
    just happened to dress in the A.D.'s office.  You should see the
    letters this kid has gotten (please excuse me for peeking...but,
    how can one resist when they are all over the place??).  Duke, St.
    John's, Peperdine, NC etc..you name the school and he's gotten a
    letter, that is, except for Georgetown!!  I know the JV coach a little
    and asked him where he was leaning and nobody really knows.  It'll
    be wild and crazy here in Springfield for the next 2 years just
    watching the circus of recruiting!!
    
    	As for Central, they are interesting because their tallest player
    is only 6'3''!!  They are quick and boy can some of them jump!!
    There could be a re-match between Cambridge Ridge and Latin and
    Central for the State title,  at least Central would like it..they
    are looking for some revenge.
    
    				       			bill..g.

    Repl to .6
    
    Cleleste Lavoie, is her name. I read in the Nashua Telegraph, that she
    left Stanford this year. The article said that basketball was taking to
    much time out of classes that she wanted to take. True or not she not
    there anymore.
    
    Keith

    	In last night's Nashua Telegraph, they mentioned that
    	Nashua 120 game in-state wins record was just broken.
    
    	Later in the article, Marcie Byrd was mentioned. She's
    	the younger sister of Stephanie Byrd, who played with
    	Celeste Lavoie.
    
    	My daughter played basketball with Marcie in the Nashua
    	city league. Marcie is one of the best basketball players
    	I've ever seen. Stephanie told me that Marcie was better
    	than she was.
    
    	Scott

    Celeste Lavoie....Thanks guys, I couldn't remember her name...Gee,
    that's amazing that she'd leave like that...I wonder whether it 
    was just too tough for her out there......She really was a good
    ball player...
    
    
    -mike

Very interesting development happened in Connecticut yesterday.

One of the HIGH SCHOOLs in Stamford, Ct, was place ON PROBATION
for (get this) recruiting violations.

It seems that the basketball coach secured a loan for a student
who lived outside of the school district to rent an apartment
near the school, so he could play on the basketball team.

Unbelievable. 

A $3000 fine was levied against the school, $500 of which was charged
to the coach.

I didn't catch all the details of the effects on what teams, and
what the actual penalties were, but for some reason 3 year sticks
in my mind.  I'll have to read the paper when I get home tonight,
and see.

This was the first I've ever heard of this happening, but they did
report that two other schools have been put on probation in the
past:  Uncasville, and ?, both in CT.


These kids must be gearing up to go to Clemson, or SMU, or one of
*those* places ;^)


Chainsaw

    Hmm...I'm from that area originall (Westport, CT...Attended Staples
    High in Westport)....Unless I'm mistaken there are only two High
    Schools in Stamford, Stamford Catholic and Rippowaum (sic)...If you're
    not familiar with the name Rippowaum, then think of this name.....
    Bobby Valetine...he was the greatest athelete during his time...
    Was a great baseball player and now is the manager of the Texas
    Rangers.
    
    
    -Mike

Mike --

It wasn't the Catholic school...must've been the other.  I'm sure
I've recycled the newspapers on that by now...

Oh well,
'Saw

        Mount St. Charles (R.I.) hockey team lost to Hendricken (1-4) last
    Saturday evening ... outplayed throughout, but not by much ... a
    great game.

        The Mount has now lost once to each of their 3 fellow MET-A teams,
    plus to Catholic Memorial (Mass) in the Xmas tournament.

        I believe Mount has 3 games left over next 2 weekends ... 2 vs.
    LaSalle (they've split 2 overtime games so far), and 1 vs. Tollgate
    (Tollgate has won 1 of the 3 (?) played so far, and lost season
    opener at Mount by only 2-1).

        This year's MET-A playoffs could be quite exciting, with each of
    the 4 teams capable of knocking off the others. Mount has won the R.I.
    championship 12/13 years in a row ... that streak is definitely in
    jeopardy this year!

           PaulB

    
    
    	Travis Best of Springfield's (Mass) Central High scored his
    1000th point tuesday night in only his 39th high school game.  With
    the remainder of this year and next (counting the state tourney,
    if they make it), he could reach the 2000 point mark.  He is averaging
    25 a game this year, but would need to average 30 in his senior
    year to reach the 2000 point plateau.  Actually, he could average
    40 a game if he wanted, but he is a very unselfish player....as
    evidence of that is that one of his teammates passed the 1000 point
    barrier last friday (he is a senior, while Travis is a junior).
    If it weren't for Travis, this other kid wouldn't have gotten close
    to the 1000 point mark.
    
    	Central is also averaging over 90 points per game!!
    
    							bill..g.

    
    His name excapes me but the top rated high school RB has committed to
    Ohio St. 

    Did anyone catch the story on the girl from Ingleside HS in California.
    She scored 101 points in 1 half of a game. The opposing team walked
    off the floor after the half.
    
    Mike
    

================================================================================
Note 8.522                     Official NBA topic                     522 of 523
COOKIE::MJOHNSTON "Life'sAfemaleDog!? WhatayaMean?"  18 lines   9-FEB-1990 13:32
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	This isn't NBA, but I just saw an article about a high school girl who
scored 101 points in one half last night.

	They said the record was 105, in a GAME!

	Evidently she thought she had tied it, because the other team refused
to come out for the second half (it was like 110 to 24, or something like
that). The Refs called 4 Technicals, which she sank, but it was later ruled
that if the team didn't come out for the second half, the score at the half was
the final score, so she ended up with `only' 101 points.

	There was also some speculation by the league about the coach being
suspended for refusing to bring his team out. Evidently, refusing to come out
and subject your team to the complete humiliation of a 220-30 loss is not good
sportsmanship. Somebody's got some pretty screwy ideas about what constitutes
sportsmanship.

Mike JN
    

    I read that the other team only had 6 players and two of them had
    fouled out by halftime.
    
    John

    Hey goose - 
    
    Is Giddal Padilla (the 6-5 forward from Central who scored his 1,000th
    point the other night) going to college?  Is so, where?
    
    Thanks for the help.
    
    NAZZ

    
    
    	Adding to the only 4 players left was the fact that I read that
    one of those was hurt!  An 80 point lead at halftime...if I was
    the other coach, I gotta ask the coach why he kept her in the game??
    Another unsportsman(girl)ship act.  I'm glad the beaten coach pulled
    his team.  Why go out there to simply be more embarassed..isn't
    an 80 point lead enough??  I have to question the winning coaches
    integrity.  Record or not, she shouldn't of been playing with a
    40 point lead let alone an 80 point lead.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    
    re: Nazz
    
    	Yep, Padilla is the one who scored his 1000th last week.  I
    haven't heard a thing on where is going..frankly, I've seen him
    play and I'm not impressed.  He is 6'3'', not 6'5'' with little
    range.  He is a slashing/driving type player who mostly finishes
    off the break.  A lot of his points come from Central's press in
    which he plays the inbounding baseline, so he picks up a lot of
    garbage.  Not that this type of play is bad or that he can't make
    it, it just seems like he doesn't have all the tools to play well
    at the Div.I level.  He also plays HORRIBLE D..  As I said, if it
    weren't for Travis' playmaking, Padilla would be hard pressed to
    get a Div. II offer.  (just my opinion though..)
    
    
    							bill..g.
    

    I only saw Padilla in the state championships last year and the
    Lowell tournament this year, but he seemed to have good range up
    to about 15 feet on his jumper, and was very quick.  For a skinny
    guy, he rebounded very well.  I agree with you about getting a lot
    of points off the press, and I wonder if he's strong enough to play
    college ball, but from the limited exposure I had to him, it looked
    like he could play small forward for a good Division II prorgram,
    or maybe off guard for a lesser Division I school.
    
    NAZZ

    
    Question:
    
    The girl that scored 101 points in the first half...
    
    If the other team refused to play the 2nd half wouldn't that be a
    forfeit? If it was a forfeit then her points wouldn't count in any
    statistics/record books. Isn't a basketball forfeit scored as either 
    1-0 or 2-0?
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    
    	re: Hoot
    
    	True, a forfeit would result in a 2-0 score, but I don't believe
    the game was called a forfeit.  Technically, there is a provision
    where the coach can term the game "a gross mismatch" (my words)
    and pull his team, legally.  It was just done here in western Mass
    by a girls coach whose opposition continued a fullcourt press after
    the game had become a traversity.
    
    	If a team forfeits during a game, and if the team is losing,
    the score at the time of the forfeit would stand.  If a team forfeits
    and is leading, then the score would be 2-0 in favor of the other
    team.  If the game if forfeited before the game starts, then the
    score would also be 2-0.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    Need inputs on the following:
    
    	Have a 7th grade basketball player who is really good, he's
    starting five on Jr. High team. Excellent team player, been playing
    with the same group of kids since 3/4 grade program. Did not play
    with them last year as he was 6th and they were all 7th and school
    doesn't have 6th grade on jr. high as does some schools. This one
    7th grade stayed back in 2nd grade and this is why he did not keep
    up with the others. These kids are winners as a group, record this
    year:
    
    		18-2 regular season
    		25-4 overall
    		been in three Jr. high tourneys to-date:
    			1 Championship
    			2 runner-ups (1 loss was by 2 points, 1 by 10)
    
    QUESTION:
    	How does it benefit this group to stay together as a team? Does
    it?
    	How does a J.V. coach justify bringing this eighth(next year)grader
    up to play on the high school J.V. team so to keep this team intact?
    	Will it benefit the player in question to stay another year
    on a Jr. high team ?
    	Will it hurt the player in question to move up and play J.V.
    ball next year?

    re .36:
                   
    I'm no coach or basketball expert, but my $.02 anyway...
    
    Question:  Would the player in question be likely to start if he were
    brought up to the JV team next year?  If so, then it might be worth
    considering.  If not, then I think he might be better off staying with
    the Jr. High team, where he would start and get a lot of playing time,
    than going to the JV team where he'd see only limited action.
    
    This was a guideline the coaches at my old high school used when
    debating whether to put a freshman on the JV team (we had a freshman
    team as well as a JV team), or to put a sophomore on the varsity;
    it seemed to work out well.
    
    
    py 

    Hey Lee timmons,
    
    I was back easted lasted week, and staying with some friends in
    Atkinson, NH.  They get the Haverhill Gazette, and I saw the feature
    sports story on your daughter, Kelly.  Pretty impressive.  You must
    be one proud papa!  Congrats.  She must have been pretty excited
    to get the story and the big picture in the paper.
    
    JD

    Reply, thanks, JD.  Yeah, it was nice at the time.  But, since then,
    we've had some bad news.  She had an MRI done on the knee, and it
    showed that her left knee has suffered a complete tear of the anterior
    cruciate ligament.  It's gone.  And, she's having a lot of pain
    in the knee.  So, she missed the last three games of the season
    due to the injury, she made all conference but had to sit out that
    all-star game last Sunday, and now, with this new information, she's 
    definitely out of the state tournament games, which start tomorrow night.
    It's tough, as she's the only senior on the team, and captain as
    well.  The starters were 1 senior, 1 junior, 2 sophs and 1 freshman.
    Now, I guess it will be 3 sophs.  They're good, but have little
    tournament experience, which usually results in being too excited
    to play to their potential.  It does speak well for their future,
    but Kerrie's highschool career is over.  This also takes care of
    softball for this year, which she is a co-captain of.
    
    We've been talking to doctors and trainers, and it looks like 
    reconstructive surgery will be done.  The knee pops out quite a
    bit, even when just standing on the leg.  
    
    Lee
    

       Sorry to hear that Lee, I remember seeing her on TV last year.
    Is she going to try to play college ball? 
                                          Denny

    JD, her name is Kerrie, not Kelly!  Who were you thinking of?  :-)
    
    Being a Haverhillite, or Hillie, as we're commonly called, I've had the
    pleasure of watching quite a few Haverhill High basketball games, both
    boys and girls.  Last year's girls team was one awesome group of
    players, as evidenced by their easy final victory to take home the Div.
    I State Championship.  I watched Kerrie progress through the season,
    starting out as a player who only played during "garbage time" to the
    "6th man" who often logged as much, if not more, time as the starting
    guards.  She developed into a quick, scrappy defender, the type that
    was not afraid to dive 10 feet for a loose ball.  She also handled the
    ball very well under pressure, forcing few turnovers, but her strength
    was definitely her defense.
    
    This year's girls team is very different than last year's State Champs. 
    I believe the starting 5 were all seniors, including 2 of the best
    players in the state.  It was obvious that Kerrie would have to be the
    leader.  And she filled that roll extremely well, keeping a group of
    less-experienced juniors and sophmores still very competitive in a
    tough league, a league in which all teams were seeking revenge against
    Haverhill for their domination in the past 3 years.  I also have to
    give credit to the coach for getting the most out of this year's team.
    
    I went to a game a couple weeks ago and noticed right-off that
    something was not right with this team.  They were confused.  They were
    sloppy.  They were sloppy in their confusion.  What was going on?  Then
    I saw Kerrie sitting on the end of the bench in "street clothes",
    looking dejected, as her teamates struggled to pull out a win, only to
    fall apart in OT in game they could have one easily with their leader
    in there.....
    
    I'm sorry to learn about the seriousness of the injury, and how it's
    going to keep Kerrie out of the playoffs and especially, the other
    sport she's trained so hard for, softball.  With no floor general with
    the leadership and playoff experience that Kerrie has, the Lady Hillies
    will be lucky to go beyond the 1st or 2nd round.  I don't think that
    Coach Woelfel has any more rabbits to pull out of a hat....
    
    Lee, wish good luck to Kerrie for me, and I hope she can come back 100%
    from the surgery.  Seeing the amount of desire and determination that
    she displayed on the basketball court, I have no doubt that she will!
    
    Hawk

Yeah, Lee, for once in here I'll be serious and ditto Hawk's wishes
about your daughter's knee.  Knee operations are no fun.

re JD...

	Guys, you've got to realize that JD is just pining away for 
	Beth out there.  Seems the girl had to go on a Business
	Trip, and JD is just all alone for a couple of weeks.  So,
	to pass the time (in a platonic way I'm sure) I sent
	Kelly out to cheer him up.

	Of course, the slip he made was Freudian, no doubt....

Chaisnaw

    Thanks for your wishes, guys, and Hawk, a special thanks for your
    kind words.  I'll be sure to show Kerrie your note.
    
    Denny, I guess college ball will depend on the success of the
    operation.  The H.S. trainer is looking into the success rate for
    me, as I don't know much about knee reconstruction, as it's referred
    to.  Although, I've been told that most often when a person blows
    out the cruciate, they also have some cartilage damage, and hurt
    an exterior ligament as well, called the "terrible trio", or something
    like that.  Thankfully, Kerrie only has the one injured part.
    
    Anyway, both that trainer and the one that's helping her with therapy
    have mentioned that those pro's who elect to wear a brace rather
    than have the surgery are often sorry aboaut their decision later
    on in their careers, as the brace really just provides protection
    for additional injury, while a successful operation can completely
    restore a players capabilities, provided the long and often grueling
    therapy is carried out.
    
    Obviously, Kerrie won't become a pro player, but the operation,
    with the therapy, should allow her to play as she did, and also
    reduce the chances of her becoming increasing crippled as life goes
    on.  I'd hate to see her have to wear a brace just to walk around
    in, never mind play.

    Lee

    Lee:
    
         I too saw your daughter play against Marlboro in last year's
    State Title game, and was saddened to hear about her injury.  In
    1980, I tore the anterior cruciate ligament in my left knee while
    playing in the DEC basketball league, and in 1985 finally had the
    reconstructive surgery your daughter is contemplating.  Clearly,
    for an athlete the surgery is the only alternative.  In 1980,
    surgical techniques were not as advanced as today, and I elected
    to rehab with extensive weight lifting and bike riding, and to
    wear a Lenox-Hill brace for sports.  This approach worked reasonably
    well for five years until I injured the knee again while Telemark
    skiing.
    
         In October of 1985, Dr. Mark Steiner of Sports Medicine, Inc.,
    Boston, reconstructed the knee using a piece of tendon from the
    under side of the knee, and I couldn't be happier with the results!
    Granted the rehab was long and difficult, and I was restricted from
    playing sports for roughly 6 to 8 months, and not back to 100%
    mobility for about a year, but it is much better than the alternative
    .... a knee that gives away at the most inopportune times.  In fact,
    I'm going in this evening for a five year check up and Cybex test
    on my left knee!
    
         If either you or your daughter have any questions on the
    surgery, the rehab, or the ultimate results you can expect, I would
    be happy to share my experiences.  (DTN 264-8167, H - (508)433-9422)
    
    Russ
        
    (note:  We're all lucky given the advances made in sports medicine
            in recent years.  10 years ago an ACL injury would effectively
            put an end to an athlete's career.  Dr. Steiner rattled
            off the names of 10 or so professional athletes who were
            done in at an early age thanks to a blown out ACL.  Billy
            Cunningham of the Sixers is one name which comes to mind.

It is a fact that surgical techniques have advanced light years
in the last five to seven years.  My brother is a surgical tech, and
he's told me that it is amazing the amount of work they can do
inside the body with the smallest of incisions.

Used to be they'd lay you open from stem to stern, or in the case
of a knee, take it all apart.  Now the trend it towards smaller
and smaller incisions.

Seems like surgeons have finally realized that the less you muck
around with, the quicker the recovery.

Best of luck, and well wishes....

Chainsaw

    
    
    	News from Westen Mass is that Travis Best was named to Parade's
    All-American team (2nd team).  Travis is only a junior and still
    has another year left.
    
    	The rumor mill and I should say rumor with a capital "R" is
    that Padilla will attend Seton Hall on a "full boat".  Travis Best
    is "said" to be looking at Pitt seriously.   Again all are rumors.
    
    	Central is the no.1 seed in the Western Mass tourney (Div. I)
    with Cathedral being the second seed.
    
    							bill..g.
    
    
    

    One of the best high school tournaments in the country begins this
    Thursday noon.  The Minnesota State High School Hockey Tournament is
    one of the most exciting, popular events in this area.  Most sessions
    will be sold out in the 18,000+ St. Paul Civic Center.  If you like
    hockey - minus the sticks, fighting and general chippy play this
    is where it's at.  Unfortunately my HS lost 1-0 last week at The
    Met in the Sectional playdowns.
    
    
    Spud
     

    Thanks, Russ.  At the present time, we're deciding on which Sports
    Medicine surgeon we'll see.  Our present doctor was very up-front
    with us in saying that he's no expert on this type of operation,
    and that he's willing to refer us to anyone we chose.  He does lots
    of operations, but not for athletes.  He recommends that we select
    a surgeon who's proficient in this type, and seek a second opinion
    from him/her.  
    
    What's surprising is that the rehab programs vary so much from surgeon
    to surgeon.  I think the operation is fairly clearcut among them.
    Some opt for a fast recovery, while others tend to select slower,
    longer periods.  From what I've read so far, the longer rehab usually
    results in less re-injuries.  Of course, I'm no medical expert,
    so I could be wrong.
    
    So, we'll leave it up to the experts.  Right now, Kerrie's main
    concern is NOT being in a cast for her Senior Prom in June!  Sorta
    changes my perspective when she shows such concern for her Prom
    rather than the upcoming softball season.  :*)
    
    Lee

    
    Anyone, besides myself catch the District E Boys Semi-finals at
    Holy Cross last night , specificly the second game between #1 seed
    Gardner (19-1) vs #4 seed Worcester Voke (17-2)? Voke has been called 
    one of the best Division II teams in the state, but due to overall records,
    seeded 4th . Anyway, it was one of the best high school games I've
    ever seen and I've played in,coached and seen many . Gardner won
    67-65 in overtime, as Vokes last second shot rolled around the rim
    and out . It had all the excitement Georgetown-Syracuse game , well it 
    did for me anyway (can you tell I'm a Gardner Alumist ?) Even Vokes
    coach, Norm Van Lier (yes, of NBA fame) was impressed .
    Next stop, WPI on 3/10 at 6:15 for the District title .
    
    Brian

         What happened to Springfield Central and Travis Best last
    evening?  Worcester Burncoat eliminated Best and Company from the
    State Tournament by a score of 66 to 61.  Burncoat must play killer
    "D" to hold high scoring Central roughly 30 points below their
    ppg average!
    
         According to folks in the know, (Worc. T&G Sportswriter Nick
    Manzello) this Burncoat team is one of the three best to come out
    of the city in the last 25 years, the others being Marvin Safford's
    Holy Name team of the mid-70's and the Worcester North team featuring
    the Hampton brothers.
    
    Russ
    
         

    Is Springfield Central the old Springfield Commerce? Commerce Had
    some great teams in the 70's? 

    
    
    	I attended the Central/Burncoat game last night and to be frank,
    it really wasn't that great of a game.  It was exciting, but I believe
    both teams really didn't play that well.  I've seen Central play
    all year and that is the worst I've seen them play in the past 2
    years!  I really can't speak for Burncoat, but they looked a little
    tight too.
    	Burncoat did a good job of Travis Best (parade 2nd team
    All-American) by using a 1-3-1 and triple teaming him once he started
    to drive.  Travis would dish the ball to the wings, but Central
    couldn't convert the 15 footers with an regularity.  
    	Central had a 5 point lead with 4 minutes to go but their stupid
    coach didn't pull the ball out to force Burncoat out of it's defense
    so in turn, Burncoat converted while Central didn't.  Central tied
    the game at 61 with 2:39 left but was held scoreless for the remainder
    of the game.  They had plenty of opportunities to score, but the
    shots just wouldn't fall.  Burncoat held Travis to only 14, but
    that's also the worst I've seen him play ever (I've seen him since
    he was in 8th grade).  Actually, Travis is his own worst enemy.
    He is just to unselfish.  Instead of trying to take control of the
    game, he seemed content to pass off and give the shot to someone
    else. 
    	As for Burncoat, they have a real nice team.  They go 6 deep
    and they play real well as a unit.  Their quickness also showed
    against Central's.  They are on a role and it will be interesting
    to see if it will carry over to the state title.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    
    re: .52
    
    	No, Central was built to combine Tech and Classical High Schools
    which were pretty run down.
    
    	Commerce is still around, but their teams are no longer what
    they once were.  Central is the place to be, and most of the talent
    in Springfield goes to either Central or Cathedral.
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

    
    
    	Well, another one of my "soon to be stars" has come through.
    Remember, I was the one who mentioned a certain 8th grader that
    had the potential to become a great Bball player and so far, Travis
    Best (junior, voted 2 Team All-American by Parade) is on course.
    	Then, last year, I mentioned a kid named Cary Kolat of Jefferson
    High which is next door to my old High School in SW Pa., who became
    only the 9th freshman to capture a state wrestling title.  He also
    won a national grecco roman title along with a world amature title for
    his age group (15-16).  He went something like 125-1 last year.
    Well, he has just won another Pa. state title (as a soph.) while
    compiling a 32-0 season (he is now 65-0 in HS competion).  He is
    also 14-1 while competing in the WVa. Open and Midlands Open
    tournaments while competing against COLLEGE wrestlers!  He wrestles
    at 125 lbs.
    	Mark it down, this kid is going to be a GREAT one!  He could
    even possibly make the olympic team after completing his senior
    year of HIGH SCHOOL in '92!!

    							bill..g.
    

    Mass HS Champs:
    
    Hockey
    
    Division 1:  Catholic Memorial 7, BC High 1
    Division 2:  Arlington Catholic 3, St Johns, Shrewsbury 2
    Division 3:  Pittsfield 8, Bourne 3
    
    Hoops:
    
    Boys:
    
    Division 1:  Cambridge Rindge and Latin over Worcester Burncoat
    Division 2:  Salem over Gardner
    Division 3:  Smith Academy over Mission (Smith, of Hatfield, has
    only 39 boys in the entire school, smallest school in the state)
    
    Girls:
    
    Division 1:  Bridgewater-Raynham over Fitchburg
    Division 2:  Milton over Oakmont
    Division 3:  Lee over Seekonk
    
    John

    Re.56
    
      I also heard that only two of the starters on Smith Academy
    are seniors.  One is a fresheman.  Not a bad program.

I saw the Div I hockey game.  I was impressed....  Must be quite a
program there....

'Saw

    Catholic Memorial, which was more known as a basketball school through
    the sixties and early seventies, has won 4 of the last 5 State Division
    1 hockey titles.  It lost to Don Bosco in last year's title game.
    CM was the first team in many, many years to go undefeated during
    the Catholic Conference schedule and its only loss was to Mount
    St Charles of Woonsocket, RI.
    
    John

    
    	There was quite a scarry incident following the Arlington Catholic
      win over St. Johns on Friday. It seems the coach of AC was being 
      interviewed by NESN, when the interview was over he was walking back
      to the locker room for the victory celebration. While he was walking
      across the ice he happened to walk on a surface that had just been 
      cleaned by the zamboni. He took a mean spill, from what I was told
      it was actually quite funny to see this nearly 300lb guy flop down.
      He didn't get right up and then people realized that he was hurt.
      He had been knocked out and received a 15 stitch cut to the back of
      his head. He was unable to remember who scored the goals so he was 
      put in Symmes Hosp. in Arlington overnight. Too bad he didn't get to
      enjoy his biggest moment as a coach. I did hear though that the team
      doctor did let him sneak out for a couple of hours. What a way to win
      a state championship.
    

>        <<< Note 88.59 by FSHQA2::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 292-2170" >>>

>    Catholic Memorial, which was more known as a basketball school through
>    the sixties and early seventies, has won 4 of the last 5 State Division
>    1 hockey titles.  It lost to Don Bosco in last year's title game.
>    CM was the first team in many, many years to go undefeated during
>    the Catholic Conference schedule and its only loss was to Mount
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>    St Charles of Woonsocket, RI.
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

           Catholic Memorial's only loss was to Plymouth, which was a colossal
     upset given that Plymouth is a public school and they did not lead their
     own league. CM defeated Mount St. Charles handily in the Providence
     Journal Xmas tourney, which should enable them to be ranked #1 in New
     England without much argument.

           Following is from note posted about CM's win over MSC:

>===============================================================================
>Note 88.12              Official High School Sports Note               12 of 60
>FDCV06::BURDEN "Paul"                               22 lines  29-DEC-1989 16:05
>                -< CM defeats Mount in XMAS Hockey Tournament >-
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>      Catholic Memorial (Mass.) defeated Mount St. Charles (R.I.) in the
>  finals of the annual Providence Journal Xmas (high school) Hockey
>  Tournament last night ... 6-1.
>
>      This was a mild upset, as it is the first year a non-RI team has won
>  the tournament. CM has been in the tournament 5 years without a win. MSC
>  did not win this tourney last year, but has been RI state champs 12 (13 ?)
>  years in a row, and has been ranked nationally in previous years by a rating 
>  service out of Minnesota.
>
>      CM had won Mass Div I hockey 3 years in a row until knocked off in
>  finals last year (by Don Bosco, I think). CM is now 7-0-0, and Mount is
>  now 6-2-0 (I believe), having lost in OT to Lasalle Academy a few weeks ago.
>
>           PaulB

    oops, Paul, you're so right, a thousand pardons please.
    
    The athletic director at Hingham HS is trying once again to get
    the Catholic schools ousted from the tournament.
    
    John

>        <<< Note 88.62 by FSHQA2::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 292-2170" >>>
>    
>    The athletic director at Hingham HS is trying once again to get
>    the Catholic schools ousted from the tournament.
>    
>    John

         I saw an article in the Globe about that. I guess the evidence points
     at it being a reasonable idea. There is just no way that most public
     schools can ever hope to win a Division championship given that they can
     only use players from their own locale. There are other factors, also,
     which work against public schools, but that has got to be the main
     problem. Same situation exists in Rhode Island, of course.  Perhaps they
     should just rename the Divisions ... instead of I, II, II, they could
     have Public I, II, III and Parochial/Private I, II, ...

          PaulB

    High school hockey has its own particular problems, most of which
    are due to money.  Hockey is really expensive and it's getting to
    the point where it's mostly the affluent families that have children
    playing the game.  The other problem is that high school hockey
    is a convenient target for school committees and athletic directors
    in cutting the budget.  So fewer public schools have hockey teams
    every year.  And with the overall cutbacks in public education in
    this state, most families with money who have hockey playing sons
    send them to the Catholic schools or the prep schools.
    
    It's more a matter of economics than it is a matter of drawing from
    various areas.  I agree with the MIAA stance that since the Catholic
    schools are members in good standing of the MIAA then it's wrong
    to exclude them from the hockey tournament.  My argument is and
    always has been that the public schools can keep their kids in the
    system by doing a better job and offering more and not my simplistic
    solutions like not allowing information for Catholic school entrance
    exams to be posted in the schools (which my hometown did).  With
    the way this state's finances are going, that's not practical anymore.
    
    I do hope they can figure out a way to solve the problems without
    excluding the Catholic schools, because it's not a problem in the
    other sports, only in hockey.
    
    John

Is there much lacrosse played up there?

For years down here in CT, lacrosse was only played by the prep schools
and those public schools in really affluent areas (Simbury, Avon,
West Hartford are some).

Then, as the evil Yuppie influence spread to my hometown (Glastonbury),
lo and behold they got a lacrosse program going...

What's it like in MASS???

'Saw

    	The only lacrosse we have up here 'Saw is the professional kind.
    Good sport.  Everybody gets drunk, and the players beat each other
    over the head with sticks.  I cain't see Yuppies playing this game!
    
    				/Don

    Lacrosse is becoming more popular on the high school level and not
    just in the affluent towns either.  2 advantages for lacrosse over
    hockey is that there's no ice time involved and no expensive youth
    programs that a kid has to be in for years to get good enough to
    play in high school.
    
    John

lacrosse will replace track & field as the big time spring sport in the next
10 years in high school.

I predict Lacroose youth leagues in 3-4 years springing up all over the area.

While it's not as cheap to play as soccer it has many things that parents like
to see in a youth sport. for example, No size factor, no speed factor, 
non-contact variations of the game and the kids get to run around for long
periods of time and come home exhausted so ma & pop love it.

Lots of clubs (after college) in the area as well as a newly formed (2 years ago)
DEC LAX club...


Metz

    	The nice about lacrosse is you can do all that stuff on the
    field and not go to jail.
    
    				/Don

Well, I wish they'd have had it when I was in H.S....

When you come right down to it, it's really the only true American
game.

Down here, the emphasis has always been on lacrosse in prep schools,
then the traditional yuppie schools had it (Simsbury, West Hartford,
Avon, Canton, Farmington), now it has slowly branched out, pretty
much following Yuppie-dom...

The contact versions make it a manly sport in my book...

Chainsaw

    Western Mass. has a large following of high school lacrosse.  I believe
    Agiwam usually has a pretty good team.  Lincoln-Sudbury is also pretty
    good.  Used to live with a couple of guys who were playing college
    lacrosse.  Crazy sumbitches; almost rivaled hockey players.  
    
    					Steve

    Longmeadow is the big high school lacrosse power in Massachusetts
    and UMass is the big college lacrosse power here.
    
    John

The comment about lacrosse effecting the track and field team is right on the
money.  I graduated from Ithaca, NY High in '75 and it was just beginning to be
a big deal there.  Both local colleges, Cornell and Ithaca College had very
good teams.  Ithaca High's track team, which was always one of the best, was
devistated.  In the past the only real competition for the good athletes was
baseball.  I'm sure it had some effect on the baseball team as well but not
nearly as much.  It seems that about the only people who really like track are
the distance runners (and they would really rather run cross-country all year)
the majority of the track team is made up of the natural athletes with no other
sport to play.  Once Lacrosse came along it was good-bye track team.

    Metz, and .74
    
    Where I went to high school in NY - all the schools had lacrosse,
    and track and field teams.  The lacrosse team was mostly fielded
    by football, wrestling, hockey, and some hoop players, along with
    some soccer and a few simple-only lacrosse players.  I never heard
    of a track athlete leaving track to play lacrosse.  I'd be seriously
    surprised if it 'replaced' track and field.  It may at a few schools
    but not wholesale - or else it would have happened elsewhere in
    large numbers.
    
    JD

jd,

In my high school the track and field team consisted mostly of football players
and a few other thrown in( distance runners that ran x-c in the fall). Most
of the sprint events were taken up by the football RB's and the field events
by the bigger players...We had no LAx then...

The Baseball team was mostly the soccer & b-ball only players...

When My little brother was in high school the school started a LAX program. It
appealed to the football players because they thought they could hit people and
the fringe baseball players (mostly the guys that like speed sports but were
bored with the idea of running just to run)...

The Lax team got extremely popular and interest in track and field and baseball
has waned....


Just letting you know what happened in my town....

Metz

    re .76:
    
    > In my high school the track and field team consisted mostly of football
    > players and a few other thrown in( distance runners that ran x-c in the
    > fall). Most of the sprint events were taken up by the football RB's and
    > the field events by the bigger players...
    
    Excuse the digression, but the comment on football and sprinters
    brought back to mind my old high school track team.  The assistant
    track coach (who also happened to be the football coach) for some
    bizarre reason always entered all the weight men in the 440.  You'd
    have the regular 440 people at the usual starting line, and then a cast
    of assorted linemen/shotputters/linebackers/discus throwers lined up
    about five yards back.  Maybe the coach figured it would put hair on
    their chests, I don't know....then there was the time a couple of
    weight men decided to hide in the bus during the 440 -- they got caught
    and were promptly entered in the mile!  Don't think I've ever seen any
    other mile race where one of the entrants got lapped twice...
    
    
    py

    So are you guys all ex-laxers?
    
    When I was in high school, we didn't have lax!
    
    AND WE LIKED IT!!!

    Some of you LaCrosse fans should come to Upstate NY. LaCrosse
    is HUGE here. Syracuse U is #1 in the country in Div. I.
    Hobart, Rochester Institute of Technology (thats right Sean), and
    Nazareth are 1,2, and 4 in the coutry in Div. III. Hobart has won
    something like 9 STRAIGHT national titles, most of any college in 
    any sport at any level. Just about every HS in the area has a team.
    If LaCrosse ever gets to the professional level that the other
    Big 3 have, look for Western NY to dominate the rosters.
    				Rich
    

    	SO THERE BABY!!!   Owwww!!!!!  
    
    [simulated air guitar jam]
    
    EXCELLENT!
                                  
    sean

    Hey Saw, indoor lacrosse is called Box Lacrosse, FYI 8^
    			Rich
    

>        <<< Note 88.64 by FSHQA2::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 292-2170" >>>

>    It's more a matter of economics than it is a matter of drawing from
>    various areas.  I agree with the MIAA stance that since the Catholic
>    schools are members in good standing of the MIAA then it's wrong
>    to exclude them from the hockey tournament.  My argument is and
>    
>    John

         
         I don't think they should be excluded either ... after all, the kids
     playing hockey in private/parochial schools are no different than the
     kids playing for public schools. However, the extenuating circumstances
     in hockey (of which you stated some ... you left out recruiting by the
     p/p's, etc.) make a good case (IMO) for simply having another division.
     We already break hockey down by divisions according to student body
     size, so one more breakdown isn't going to hurt ... at least then there
     would be a title for Div. I public schools to shoot for ... realistically. 

            PaulB

         Follow-up to my last note ... Rhode Island has effectively done
     exactly this, with their MET-A Division consisting ONLY of 3 parochial
     schools and 1 public (Toll Gate of Warwick, who VOLUNTEERED to go into
     MET-A a couple of years ago, I'm pretty sure ... it was not forced upon
     them.

         This same system could work in the Mass. hockey program.

                 PaulB

>     <<< Note 88.48 by ITASCA::WIERSBECK "The Fabulous MN Barking Ducks" >>>
>                      -< Hockey madness about to begin! >-
>
>    One of the best high school tournaments in the country begins this
>    Thursday noon.  The Minnesota State High School Hockey Tournament is
>    one of the most exciting, popular events in this area.  Most sessions
>    
>    Spud

           So who won ? Do you still have the results from quarter-finals
     to finals ?

           Last year this was on Cable here (Mass.), but I didn't spot it 
     this year.

           My understanding is that next year Minn. will break the tourney
     down by school size, and that the proposal has come under fire from
     many traditionalists. Any word on that ?

           I know loads of GREAT hockey players have come out of that 
     tournament.     

           Thanx ... PaulB

    While I'm not so naive as to think there is no recruiting by the
    Catholic schools and the Prep schools, I have to say that most
    of the reason kids go to these schools, at least in Massachusetts,
    has been and continues to be the decline of the public school systems.
    Between the state's budget cutbacks, Proposition 2 1/2 and the
    declining support in state-supported anything here in the Bay State,
    the public schools are going downhill and the parents who are able
    to do so are sending their kids out of the public schools.  The
    effect of this shows up worst in hockey.
    
    There is an interesting realignment proposed for Essex County here
    in Massachusetts.  The Northeastern Conference, which consists of
    Beverly, Danvers, Gloucester, Lynn Classical, Lynn English, Marblehead,
    Salem, Saugus, Swampscott and Winthrop has accepted applications
    from 5 schools to join its ranks in forming a large school/small
    school format.  Three schools are Peabody, Everett and Revere
    from the Greater Boston League.  The GBL, which also consists of
    Medford, Malden, Arlington and Somerville is essentially merging
    with the Suburban League.  Peabody should have been in the Northeastern
    Conference 15 years ago but was kept out because it was so much
    bigger than the other schools.  The other schools being considered
    are Bishop Fenwick, a coed Catholic school in Peabody and my alma
    mater, St Johns.
    
    I think this is great.  It makes more geographic sense for St Johns
    and Fenwick to be in this league.  When I was in school, we played
    all the public schools and it was a lot more fun than playing the
    other Catholic schools.  In football, we had at least one guy who
    was from the city or town we were playing and everybody on both
    sides got pumped up - us to win it for whoever, the opponent to
    beat the rich kids.  I see most of the Catholic schools in Eastern
    Mass going this route.  Outside Eastern Mass, it's been done this
    way for years, with Springfield Cathedral and the Worcester area
    Catholic schools playing local public schools.  It also makes sense
    for scheduling in all sports because it's getting harder for the
    Catholic schools to fill their schedules in all sports.
    
    I still think the Catholic schools will dominate hockey but not
    quite as much because the competition during the year won't be as
    tough.  St Johns will probably dominate the NEC in hockey during
    the year but won't be as tournament tough when the time comes. 
    I also think that if the Catholic schools play essentially a public
    school schedule during the regular season then there is no way the
    MIAA can ban them from the tournament.
    
    John

    Anyone got today's Globe?  Does it have the girls All Scholastic
    basketball team in it?  I'm now at NSO and they don't have the Globe
    on sale up here.
    
    Kerrie made the 2nd team, which I feel is quite an accomplishment
    considering that she missed 7 games this year due to injury.
    
    If anyone has it, could you let me know if it's in today's edition?
    If so, I'll buy a few after work.
    
    Thanks,  
    
    Lee

    Lee,
    
    Congrats!  And to Kerrie also.   Glad to hear it.  Wasn't in USA
    TODAY or the Seattle papers ;-0
    
    Lee "Richard" Timmons
    
    JD

    Thanks, JD.  But, what's with the "Richard" bit?
    
    Lee

    Lee, I'm in a Chris Berman "It's cold outside" kinda mood - so 
    I'm bermanizing everyone's name.
    
    Strange days, indeed.
    
    John Devlin "made me do it"

    	Nothing in today's Globe Lee.  Congrats.  I can say that because
    Wardle isn't around.
    
    				/Don

    Thanks, sLASHER.  I can type that way cause Dinz isn't around, either.
    He's a tall.
    
    Well, guess I'll have to wait until next Tuesday for that Globe.
    
    Lee

    hi don,
    
    how goes the battle?
    

    Lee, it's already been out.  It was in the Sunday Globe from April
    1 or April 8.
    
    Or if not there, it was in last Tuesday's Globe.
    
    The School Sports report comes out on Wednesday this week anyway
    because of the vast amount of coverage given to Opening Day.
    
    John

Congrats Lee (and Kerrie too).

And because JoJ's not around I cain say it:

	No flies on that girl....8^)

latereth,
'Saw

    It's in today's (Wednesday's) Globe, just got one.  There was a
    small notice in yesterday's paper about having the highschool special
    on Wed.
    
    Thanks to all,
    
    Lee

    I was wrong.  I had seen several All Scholastic teams over the last
    couple of weeks and thought I'd seen the girls hoop team listed.
    Sorry.
    
    John

    Back to high school hockey in eastern Mass. Although hockey is an
    expensive sport I still have a hard time understanding how such
    perrenial (sp?) hockey powers like Melrose, Needham, Walpole, Norwood,
    Auburn, Hudson, Hingham etc have almost vanished from the scene.
    Arlingtom seems to be the only public school in Div I which still
    vies for the title every year.
    
    Going back 20 years or so we still had Malden Catholic, Catholic
    Memorial, Don Bosco (annual doormat), and Archbishop Williams in
    the tourney every year. Some years they won it all and other years
    they didn't.
    
    But many of the old public school powers are affluent towns. They
    have solid youth programs and the kids stay in the public schools.
    Is it the coaching in the Catholic schools? Is it that much better?
    
    Coming from Walpole I realize that a few kids end up in Xavarian.
    But there is alot of pressure for good players to stay in the public
    school because of it's rich hockey tradition. And most of them do.
    I would assume the same is true in Norwood, Melrose and Hingham.
    
    The sad thing, to me, is the loss of competition from city schools.
    Boston Tech and Charlestown used to ice some great teams in the
    50's and 60's. Add to that Lynn English, South Boston and the old
    Cambridge Latin and you had some real good inner city hockey. It
    is essentially gone now.
    
    Rich
    

    Rich, one of the other problems besides the cost is declining
    enrollments.  The Globe had a list of the public schools in the
    MIAA and it's really surprising to see how much the enrollments
    have dropped.  For example, Peabody, where I grew up, had a public
    high school with an enrollment of over 3,000 students in 3 grades
    when I was in high school.  It's down to around 1,500 now.  Brockton
    used to have over 6,000 kids, now it's down to 3,200 or so.  At
    the same time, the Catholic schools have either stayed stable or
    increased, and at the time I was in high school, these schools were
    declining or closing.  St Peters of Gloucester and Keith Academy
    in Lowell both closed when I was a freshman.  St Johns had a total
    enrollment of 800 when I was there, now it's up to around 1,200.
    
    Start with fewer kids.  Add rising costs.  Fewer kids and rising
    costs mean less overall support for public school systems.  There
    is a real breakdown of the generational compact in our cities and
    towns, where the elderly support the school systems while the younger
    people support the elderly programs.  Now there's a feeling of "I'll
    only support the programs that matter to me."  Not only are there
    fewer children in our towns but fewer families have children.  When
    I was growing up, there were literally two dozen children in our
    age group, now when I walk around my parents' neighborhood, I seldom
    see any children.  The single homeowner such as myself was an exception
    now it's a rule.  (and I have no obvious incentive to support public
    education other than knowing it's the right thing to do and it
    ultimately helps my property value ...)  School department budgets
    used to be sacrosanct in every city and town, now they're scrutinized
    very closely.
                                                                     
    Something else that's a very real problem in this state is the special
    education system.  Public school systems are required to foot the
    bill for whatever private school education may be required for a
    child with special needs.  Some of these residential programs can
    cost upwards of $100K/year.  This comes right off the top before
    any regular needs kids can be taken care of.  Usually what happens
    between these rising costs and the budget cutbacks is that programs
    for gifted kids and extra-curricular activities get cut first. 
    Then there are the basics, school supplies and so on.
    
    Public schools are no longer allowed to teach any moral or ethical
    values.  My cousin, who lives in Danvers, has a 4-year old and a
    2-year old.  Despite the fact that she can see the local public
    school from her house, she will make the time and money sacrifices
    to send her kids to parochial schools because of this very fact.
    She wants her kids to grow up with some sense of right and wrong.
    
    The City of Boston public school system is a special case in and
    of itself.  It seems that unless a kid goes to an exam school (Latin,
    Latin Academy or Tech) s/he is doomed to a second rate education.
    There is also no support politically for the schools in Boston.
    The parents who have the money get the kids out.
    
    It's almost getting to the point in this state where the parent
    of a child who has serious college aspirations has no choice other
    than to send that child to a private school, because I predict soon
    it will be a rare kid coming out of a public school in this state
    who can go anywhere other than one of the public colleges and/or
    universities, and given the state of public higher education in
    this state, that'll be no prize either.
    
    It's more than just the cost of hockey.
    
    John

Wow, 63 lines, and not one mention of a beach ball, the wave,
or Ninjas...

Guess John's back to normal...

    John, 
    
    the decline in enrollment has hit high school's hard all over. 
    When I graduated, we had 309 seniors in my class.  67 seniors are
    in the Class of 1990, and the High School has less than 300 students.
    They moved the 8 graders to the high school to try to fill it up
    a bit.
    
    That, coupled with the rising costs of competing (equipment,
    transportation, maintenance of facilities, etc) and the rise in
    insurance rates (the USA - land of the lawsuit) has hurt athletics.
    My old high school coach also says kids are more interested in making
    money than competing - it is harder to train than to work - and
    they need income to stay competitive in the important things - style
    ($100 sneakers, neon jackets, special hair cuts, CD portables....)
    
    
    JD

    That's true too about kids working.  I see a lot more kids working
    now than there used to be.  In fact, when I talk to my HS football
    coach, he laments the fact that he can't get kids to be team managers
    anymore because everyone has to have a job.
    
    It's not just for luxuries either.  In some cases, the jobs are
    for necessities.
    
    John

    John, I must really BLAM you for your knock against public education.
    
    Ethical values most certainly ARE taught at every public school that
    I know of; moral values to a degree as well.  Religious values as
    espoused by the Catholic Church are what is not taught, thank God
    for that.  As a once and future public school teacher, I take strong
    offense at the insinuation that Catholic schools uphold some type of
    ethical and moral high ground.  As someone who suffered through 12
    long years of nuns and brothers, I would never put my kids through
    that ordeal!  I know for a fact that the quality of education at
    local Catholic elementary schools does not come close to matching
    what a typical public school provides.
    
    NAZZ

    I hear ya there, Nazz.  I've been staying out of this myself until now.
    I went to parochial school for my first four years of school, and if
    you could see some of the waste that that school produced it's amazing.
    
    My wife and I know of a few people in our town that are now sending
    their kids to parochial school, "so they won't have to sit next to a
    'minority'."  I would say that same feeling is the majority in Boston.  
    Brilliant reasoning.
    
    I do agree that Mass. public education is going through a very rough
    time.  Our oldest will be getting ready for kindergarten next year, and
    public schools it will be, unless something drastic happens in the
    meantime.  Communication between parents and teachers is necessary no
    matter what type of school we're talking about.
    
    					Steve

    I should be blammed for my statement of public schools not being
    allowed to teach moral and ethical values.  I apologize.  That's
    not true and I'm sorry if I insulted you, Nazz.
    
    I was lucky.  I avoided Catholic schools for 8 years and then went
    to a Catholic high school, so I didn't have to put up with the nuns
    for a long time and then by the time I was listening to the brothers,
    I was a little less gullible.
    
    Looking back, I feel there are some benefits I would have had from
    a public high school education - diversity in the student body,
    wider range of courses (I would have loved to have taken shop classes
    for example), less of a commute, girls - but overall, I know the
    education I got was far, far better than I would have had if I'd
    stayed in my home town public school system.
    
    Public school teachers have a nearly impossible job and it's getting
    tougher every year.
    
    John

    Especially girls!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    It was really hard getting dates in high school when the crowd
    you hung around with was all boys!  That's why I got a job at
    a Friendly's in Dedham as soon as I turned 16.  The money was
    nice, too, but the babes was what I was after!
    
    NAZZ

As someone who was going to be a teacher, here is what I can
offer, from a Connecticut point of view.

Many times, the lay teachers (i.e. teachers that can have sex 8^))
in a Catholic school are second rate.  The parochial schools down
here pay second rate wages, and are not bound necessarily by any
edicts of the State Board of Ed, since they are a private type
school.  Consequently you will get some teachers who couldn't get
in anywhere else.

I don't want to open a can of worms, but it is my contention that
many of the clergy of the Catholic Church, and those who teach
in their schools, are too far removed from the issues of today, and
take an extremely medieval approach to dealing with them.  They
are ill equipped to help young people cope with today's world.

Now, READ MY LIPS, none of this is meant to offend any Catholics.
I've been that route, I've experienced it first hand, so I know
what I'm talking about.

I'm not saying public schools are all that great, necessarily either,
but I can say that many of my peers who went to Catholic school
did not receive as good an education as I did, and I went to 
Glastonbury High School.

One of the biggest problems in education today is retaining highly
knowledgable people who can teach, but possess skills that are better
rewarded in the business place.  Why, for example, should I teach
a bunch of kids how to use a PC when I can make much more money, have
better bennies, and set my own "pace", right here?  Hopefully, in the
long run, the schools will become a more lucrative place to be 
employed, and also some of these programs where businesses pay their
employees to teach courses in the schools will take off...

Just some very humble opinions from a freakin' lunatic,
'Saw

    Saw, you mention public schools in the 'burbs being pretty good.
    Suprise, suprise (in my Gomer Pyle voice) !
    
    It's the inner city public schools that are going to hell in a
    handbasket for a variety of reasons, and where we need to take care
    of business.
    
    Doc

Well, it's been a while since I've been in school, but in my particular
area we had a bunch of programs in Glastonbury to try and help alleviate
some of that situation.

One was Project Concern, which was basically a fancy name for bussing.
But hey, it worked, ya know.

The other was a thing called ABC (A Better Chance).  What this program
did was to take 10 Inner City kids from all over the country, bring them
to G-bury, and put them up in this big old Victorian house.  They lived
together as a family, with two chaperones or whatever you wann call them.
Anyway, they participated in all facets of school and community life.

Not living in G-bury anymore, I don't know if they've expanded the numbers.

Now, I can't speak for Bridgeport or New Haven, but the Hartford Public
Schoool system has made great strides in improving the quality of the
education, the safety of the schools, and the quality of the "school life".
It may not be totally there yet, but they are trying, and in many ways
succeeding.

Again, not living in G-bury, but in a more rural area, I'm not as much
exposed to Hartford issues as I used to be...

'Saw

    I think Hawk hit the key - the parents *have* to be involved, and
    they need to support whatever disciplinary measures the schools
    can hand out.  It doesn't matter if it's public, private, or parochial,
    it's a match in goals between home and school.  With the match,
    you will get kids who get educated, even if money and other resources
    are tight and conditions less than ideal.  Without the match, while
    you may win an occasional battle, you will lose the war.  Right
    at the moment, in general, too many school systems have too little
    support from the parents and surrounding community.  The result
    is now becoming visible.  
    
    A&W

    I'm not Catholic, but I went to a Catholic high school.  My parents
    said the academic experience would be great preparation for college.  I
    knew they were secretly hoping the priests would straighten me out
    (fooled them all!).
    
    If I had the choice again, I would've picked a public high school. 
    Life's too short to be drilled like that, and teens are too young.  You
    should get to enjoy life a little.
    
    Mike

    There is a fine line between enjoying life and not being prepared
    when you get out of school.  I found college easy, not because the
    courses were easy, but because I was piled with homework every night
    in high school (between that and being team manager for 3 varsity
    sports made me learn how to organize my time), and because I was forced
    to develop good study habits, including library usage.  Before high school,
    I was a good enough student where I could do great on talent alone
    without having to learn the right way to study.  Being in a competitive
    high school forced me to adjust and then college was a breeze. 
    If I'd stayed in my home town high school, I probably would have
    had more fun, probably breezed through and paid the price in college
    (as did many of the people who I would have graduated with had I
    stayed a public school student).
    
    I'm also convinced that the Catholic high school forced one of my
    brothers to grow up and stop being a discipline problem.  He'd be
    in jail now had it not been for the atmosphere in our high school.
    
    It's not for everyone.  The brother between me and the one who was
    helped out so much probably should have gone to the local public
    high school.  Kids with special needs should go public, I think.
    My 2 youngest brothers were better off in the public school system
    because they went the vocational route and are making more money
    than I am.
    
    John
        

    Oh, and Mike Heiser, with 4 children at such a young age, the Catholic
    high school indoctrination has probably affected you more than you
    realize.  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)
    
    John

Whatsa matter Mike, Father O'Malley tell ya not to put that little
rubber thingie on the end of your John Thomas....[that Monty Python
sketch cracks me up]


I agree about the parents.  My parents were pretty strict, and it was
one of those deals where you didn't go out to play until homework was
done.  Later in life, you got the privilege of delaying homework to
play, but if you were late handing in an assignment, that priv went
away....

I guess I was one of those fortunate slobs who never needed to study.
For me, simply taking notes in class was enough.  Somehow that burned
it into my brain.

Personally, I think that if Catholic schools up there are run the
way they are down here, your kids would probably get a complex, or
end up anal retentive or something.

And I'd never dispute you John, because obviously you are living testament
that the system works, but some of the wildest, hardest partyers I know
now, went to Catholic school.  I think it's like anything else with some
kids at that age.  If you say don't do it, they do, and vice versa.

(By the way, I'm truly enjoying this discussion...  Oh, and how many
of you are eating meat today...a show of hands please....)

    re .118
    
    Good one John !

    
    'S OK to ea't meat of Fri'dayss' now.
    
    But what a joke that was anyway.  "Son, since this is Friday and
    a day of soul-searing penance, what say we pass on your mom's
    three-day-old leftover 'yakmeat helper' casserole and truck on down
    to the neighborhood market and pick us up a coupla lobstahs."
    
    "I hear ya, dad.  Can we stop off an' go to confession, too.  It's
    been almost two days since I went last and Sister Sal Hepatica sez
    ya can't go often enough, 'specially us prepubescent types with our
    raging hormones and impure thoughts enterin' our heads all the time.
       
    Growin' up Catholic and attending Catholic Schools was somethin'
    else, I tell ya.
    
    -Dick
    

>    Oh, and Mike Heiser, with 4 children at such a young age, the Catholic
>    high school indoctrination has probably affected you more than you
>    realize.  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)
    
    John, no it is all those years of virginity that I'm making up for! 
    Plus my wife is an OH BABY and won't leave me alone (ala Ted Bundy)! ;-)
    
    The first time I realized that I should've went to a public school is 
    my sophmore year.  The whole class had to go to a local monastery to be
    lectured by priests for a day.  This was all too strange for a
    Protestant as it was, but when this priest started saying it was OKAY
    to massage your own John Thomas because he does...
    
    That just took the cake!  Sure I developed great study habits, was
    disciplined, and graduated with honors from a prestigious school, but
    public schools had all the girls!  
    
    Mike

    Proud parent checking in.
    
    My son broke his school's record in the 330 low hurdles last night.
    Did a 33.7, previous record was 33.8, his personal previous best
    was 34.3.  
    
    A&W

    
    	Good Job!!!

	Congrats to A&W jr.!!!  What school does you son run for???

JimH

Musta been steroids!!!!  8^)

Congrats.  I'm no expert runner, but I do know that to take that
kind of time off is quite an accomplishment...

'Saw

    Most people would have trouble running at that pace *without* hurdles!
    
    					Steve

    He runs for Medway High School, here in Mass.
    
    The school got a new track coach this year, and apparently he's
    making a *huge* difference.  Dan's taken more than 2 seconds off
    last year's best time.  Other kids are showing similar improvements
    in their events.
    
    A&W

    A&W,
    
    	330 what?  Yards?  Out here in Colorado, they've gone to
    	the metric system for running events.
    
    Claybone

    33.7 is great!  My friend useta run the 300 Lows and his best was
    34.something. He'd be one of the top 300 low men in this state.

    Claybone -- Yeah, it's probably yards.  
    
    J_Hernandez -- Thanks for the info on how good it really is.  I
    wasn't too sure.
    
    JNA's in general -- Actually, we are near Frankway High.  [I love
    it.]  That's the next town over (well, it's Franklin anyway).
    
    But can Frank coach?  Or just run well when properly motivated?
    
    A&W 

I cain Coach.  

I consider myself a builder of young men's character.  First teach them
the fundamentals:

	a) grip the can boldy with one hand
	b) do not be dismayed by the condensation on the
           side, as your skill will overcome this obstacle.
	c) using index finger of other hand, pull back on the
	   tab until a resonating "pop" is hear.

	d) clear the beerway by ensuring the top is well out of the
	   way
	e) open mouth, insert clear amber liquid
	f) revel in the taste
	g) swallow
	h) repeat steps e thru g until empty
	i) repeat steps a thru h until need to empty bladder
	j) empty bladder by visiting men's room.  Dad should have taught
	   them the fundamentals of that...
	k) repeat steps a through j until no longer functional.

This kind of teaching requires dedication, and an iron constitution.
It's a tough job but someone has to do it...

All the freakin' lunatics of Frankway High(tm) will learn these fundamentals
prior to graduation....

Chainsaw

    
    Hey, ya freakin' lunatic, what was your time on the bleacher hurdles
    on the way to the baffroom olympics?
    
    With your coaching, I'll bet all sorts of running records will be
    set at your school.  I hear /Don wants to do a new video on your
    track team called "Fast Times at Frankway High."
    
    Dickster
    

>    set at your school.  I hear /Don wants to do a new video on your
>    track team called "Fast Times at Frankway High."
    
    Starring Chainsaw as Spiccoli!
    
    "Hey royal ugly Teach doode, want some Pizza doode!"

	Frankway High (tm) will never have a great track team. I know from
experience. I went to a Frankway High night school session last night at the
Sit 'n Bull campus in downtown Maynard and followed the instructions in reply
.137. Today at lunch I ran 6.5 miles, and I can assure you that the curriculum
doesn't absolutely nothing for either you speed or endurance. And thank goodness
I didn't have to clear any hurdles, they could have been deadly!!! Now I'm
planning on being becoming a Frankway High dropout!!!

JimH

>	a) grip the can boldy with one hand
>	b) do not be dismayed by the condensation on the
>           side, as your skill will overcome this obstacle.
>	c) using index finger of other hand, pull back on the
>	   tab until a resonating "pop" is hear.
>
>	d) clear the beerway by ensuring the top is well out of the
>	   way
>	e) open mouth, insert clear amber liquid
>	f) revel in the taste
>	g) swallow
>	h) repeat steps e thru g until empty
>	i) repeat steps a thru h until need to empty bladder
>	j) empty bladder by visiting men's room.  Dad should have taught
>	   them the fundamentals of that...
>	k) repeat steps a through j until no longer functional.
>
>This kind of teaching requires dedication, and an iron constitution.
>It's a tough job but someone has to do it...
    
    O.k so you teacheded them the endurance events but you left out the
    sprint events. Shotgunning, Funneling, chug relays, Shot (of tequila)
    put, and don't forget the belch and boot medley. You need to teach
    these things, how do you expect them to compete in todays college
    environment?

My assistant coach, Kelly Bundy, handles all the speed events.

She simply tells the athletes that the one who chugs the fastest will
win a "prize".  The "prize" is her one-on-one tutelage after hours, 
working on all the muscle groups involved...

I haven't forgotten that stuff, it's just that I'm an endurance man.
In the events that I like, speed, and finishing QUICKLY is sometimes
frowned upon....

Hope this helped,
Coach Chainsaw Spiccoli

    Hey Chainsaw,
    
    	Listen to this.....<thump thump thump>
    
    	That's my skull dude!
    
    
    Cool waves and tasty Buds,
    
    Claybone

    Way back in whatever, where I reported how good my son was doing,
    I kinda screwed up a little.  So's I don't cause major heart attacks
    among more knowledgeable members of this file, corrections ensue.
    (I am one of those folks who are absolutely *horrible* at remembering
    numbers - can't do it.)
    
    Add 10 seconds to the kid's times.  I got the last digit and the
    fractions right, but not the tens place.  (It's still the school
    record, and he's qualified for the state meet at the end of the
    season, just ain't superman quite yet.)
    
    A&W

Well, what's 10 seconds more or less among friends, right?

If they give him anyt sh_t about it, send him over to Frankway High.
We'll lairn him there real good.

In fact, we have a guest instructor (or should I say destructor) coming
in this next semester to teach beach ball annihilation....  In fact,
he's someone we all know...  I can't say who, yet, though, as we're
still working out a contract to see if he cain't team teach with another
person we all known (clue: Yassir Arafat)...

You heard it here first...
Chainsaw

    So he's running 43's? How big is his school?
    
    Congrats on the record.

    I know USA Today's National High School rankings don't prove that
    much,but the performance of Elizabeth(NJ) High School is still pretty
    amazing this year. 
    
    Their football team was 12-0,no 1 in NJ,  and ranked near the top of
    the USA Today football poll. I know they were in the top 5.
    
    In basketball,led by 7-2 Luther Wright,they were again first in the
    state,losing once to an  Arkansas school in a Christmas tournament
    in Arkansas. Again,they wound up in the final top 10 nationally. 
    
    Now in baseball,they are number 1,16-0 and supposedly have four major
    league prospects. Their track team is also the best in the state,with
    several nationally ranked performances.

But what I wanna know is how's their marching band, and what
are their cheerleaders like?

Deen to wonk,
'Saw

    4 year high school, total student body is around 420, junior class
    is 109.  Pretty tiny.
    
    A&W

    
    Must be something about Elizabith, NJ that breeds superior athletes.
    
    Hmmmm.....have any of you seen "The Toxic Avenger"?
    
    Dickster
    

    The National High School Rugby Championships were held May 19-20 in San
    Antonio, TX.  The teams qualifying for the finals were:  Alamo City
    (San Antonio), Highlands HS (Utah), Boyleston HS (PA), El Camino HS
    (CA), North Bend HS (Ohio), Douglas County (CO), Liberty HS (Seattle,
    WA), and West End HS (VA).
    
    In the final, Highlands High beat Alamo City.
    
    On a side note, the Alamo City team is the only high school rugby team
    in Texas.  The Alamo City RFC (a Division II men's club) started up a
    side made up of high school players from around the city.  They have
    not been able to get a high school in San Antonio to sponsor the team.  
    Because of the lack of high school rugby in the rest of the state,
    these kids primarily play scrimmages amongst each other and the less
    experienced/younger players of the Club side.  For this team to place
    2nd in the National Championships under these circumstances was quite
    an accomplishment.

    High School football in Eastern Mass has realigned based on league-wide
    enrollment.  The Merrimack Valley League and the Old Colony League
    have moved up to Division 1 while the Bay State League and Middlesex
    League move down to Division 2.  The Northeastern Conference moves
    to Division 3 and the Dual County League moves up to Division 2.
    The Cape Ann League moves down to Division 4.  Can't remember the
    other changes.
    
    John

    John, I missed this in the paper today. With the Bay State League
    moved to Division 2 in football that mean the only teams to beat
    Brockton in the last decade or so in the Super Bowl (Walpole, Norwood)
    plus Natick and the new combined Framinham HS should clean up.
    
    In Walpole's case it almost makes sense. In nearly every sport except
    hockey and football Walpole is competing in Division 2. Since it's
    10-12 erollment is around 750-800 this makes sense. But Natick in
    Division 2? Framingham in Division 2? The new Wellesley in Division
    2? Dedham, Braintree, Milton, Needham, Norwood?
    
    Rich
    

    It wasn't in the paper today.  It was in late last week and I'm
    just now getting around to posting it.
    
    I don't completely understand the rationale either.  In football,
    there's always been a rule that an entire league must be in the
    same division for playoff purposes.  This is unlike basketball,
    baseball and so forth, where the members of the league compete on
    their own individual level based on enrollment.  Because of the
    way the football playoff system works, all the teams have to be
    on the same level.
    
    Prior to doing this, the division was based on the strength of the
    league rather than the enrollment.  Neither system makes sense however,
    because of the wide range of enrollments within a league.  I knew
    about how much smaller Walpole was compared with the rest of the
    Bay State League and I agree Walpole should be a Division 2 school
    - not all the others (and I didn't know Framingham North and Framingham
    South were merging, I knew Weymouth North and Weymouth South were).
    
    The only thing that makes sense is for all new leagues to be drawn
    based on enrollment but that will never happen in the interest of
    preserving traditional rivalries, and also because this state is
    so damned provincial it won't accept the need for long-distance
    travel to play high school games.
    
    The Bay State League won't necessarily clean up, however.  Keep
    in mind that the games within the league will all cancel out for
    purposes of making the Super Bowls.  It's the non-league games that
    really matter.  If the BSL plays Division 1 non-league opponents
    and wins then they'll clean up.
    
    John

    According to the Lowell Sun, if you went by enrollment alone, only
    Lowell, Lawrence, Haverhill, Chelmsofrd, and Central Catholic would
    be in Division 1 from the Merrimack Valley Conference.  Methuen and
    Andover would be Division 2, Dracut and Tewksbury Division 3, and 
    Wilmington would be all the way down in Division 4.
    
    NAZZ

    John - in basketball, baseball, softball, wrestling, tennis, golf,
    etc, Walpole plays a regular Bay State League schedule but come
    playoff or tournament time they play in Division 2. So, essentially
    they play a Division 1 schedule in baseball against the likes of
    Braintree and Norwood but then go to Division 2 for the playoffs.
    I agree, there's not much sense in this.
    
    Going back to the pre-John Lee days when I was going to Walpole
    High we were told that the only reason we were in the Bay State
    League was because of our hockey team. Except for the Butch Songin
    years in the early 50's, Walpole got clobbered in football and we
    had one great basketball team in 1960 - won the Class B Tech Tourney.
    
    I have heard that if a massive override does not pass in Framingham,
    the high schools will merge. I assume it will be into the newer 
    North high school. I have also heard that neither school is close
    to capacity today so it would not be as drastic a move as initially
    thought.
    
    If enrollment is the sole method for determining league makeup,
    however, some long standing rivalries will be gone for good. There
    is no way that Walpole can match the rest of the Bay State League
    in enrollment yet their athletic department is one of the better
    ones in the league. The Rebels were in the softball, baseball, tennis
    playoffs this spring, won the Division 1 Super Bowl and were in
    the hockey and girls' basketball playoffs as well. 
    
    Rich
    

    Nazz and Rich,
    
    I've been saying the same thing all along.  The current setup is
    unfair to the smaller schools because they end up playing in leagues
    with schools that are much bigger than they are.  True realignment
    based on enrollment will mean more balanced competition but it will
    mean the end of traditional rivalries, it will mean an increase
    in travel costs and it will mean longer road trips.  The schools
    have to decide what they want.  They'll probably just bitch about
    the Catholic schools, as usual. (set sarcasm off)
    
    It makes no sense for Walpole to play an all-Division 1 schedule
    in most of their sports and then end up in the Division 2 tournament.
    It makes no sense to drop the entire league down to Division 2 in
    football because a couple of schools are smaller than the others.
    The merger of the Framingham high schools will mean Walpole loses
    its Thanksgiving Day since it's almost certain that whatever Framingham
    school is left will play Natick, just like it did before the schools
    broke up.  I also wonder what's going to happen in Weymouth.  For
    years, before the schools broke up, their Thanksgiving Day game
    was against Brockton.  When they broke up, the schools started playing
    each other.  Will the series resume again?  Who knows?
    
    Nazz, the Merrimack Valley is a perfect example of what needs to
    be done.  Granted the schools are all close together and have been
    rivals for years.  But to have Wilmington in the same league as
    Lowell is absurd.  It's unfair to a school that may lose out to
    Lowell for the Super Bowl because Lowell won't play a real Division
    1 schedule.  It's unfair to Wilmington to have to play in a league
    where the odds are stacked against them.  What's even worse would
    be if Wilmington managed to qualify for the Division 1 Super Bowl.
    They could because they'd be playing a Division 1 schedule.  Can
    you imagine how ugly a Wilmington - Brockton game could be?
    
    Short-sighted expediency will probably overrule the move that makes
    the most sense from a competitive viewpoint.
    
    John
    
    

    They went to a true enrollment based league in the county I went
    to high school from.  There was too big a disparity in school sizes.
    Male enrollment ranged from about 289 to 3000+ - needless to say,
    the size helped the larger schools...
    
    At first no one liked the new makeup - which has spread to most
    of hte other counties in thatregion, but now, most like it.  Some
    old, natural rivalries went by the wayside, but competition is fairer
    and the smaller schoools don't get beat up by the big schools every
    weekend.
    
    JD

    JD, that's exactly what needs to be done in this state.  But what
    do you expect from a state where native Bostonians consider anything
    outside Rt 128 to be the sticks and anything past 495 to be a foreign
    country?
    
    A couple of months ago, the Globe published enrollment figures from
    many of the schools in Massachusetts.  I didn't take a close look
    at it, but did notice that Brockton, Durfee and New Bedford were
    kind of out of whack enrollment-wise with the rest of the state.
    Durfee and New Bedford have been playing their neighbors but are
    far bigger than the surrounding schools.  Those two will be a problem
    no matter how a realignment plan is written.
    
    I'm going to write to the MIAA today requesting enrollment figures
    state-wide to come up with two realignment plans of my own - a
    state-wide scheme, and one that maintains the integrity of the 3
    regions in the state - Eastern Mass, Central Mass and Western Mass.
    Might be something fun to work on.  I'm also going to try to find
    that old issue of the Globe and get the enrollment figures from
    there.
    
    John

    GO BEDFORD GALS.. PLAYING ASHLAND FOR  DIV  3  CHAMPIOPEENSHEP [TM]
    
    hope i didnt jinz  them
    
    dinz
    

    Jinz?  Is that short for "jinx by Dinz"?
    
    Better tm that sucker.
    
    Mark.

    < Note 88.164 by COBRA::DINSMORE "Madonna and ASICS.. A WINNING COMBO" >


>    GO BEDFORD GALS.. PLAYING ASHLAND FOR  DIV  3  CHAMPIOPEENSHEP [TM]
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    In my haste to tm jinz, I missed this gem!

    Congrats, Dinz.
    
    Mark.

    youre welcome  marcus..
    
    way to go bedford
    

         I saw in USA Today that Travis Best took his act south of the
    border and stuck in 31 in a Connecticut High School All-Star Game.
    Did anyone happen to see a box score?  I would be interested in
    knowing if Mike Williams from Hartford's Weaver H.S. played and
    if so, how he did.
    
    Russ 

I got the handbook from the Mass Interscholastic Athletic Association (MIAA) in
order to do a little research on Massachusetts high schools and the ever per-
plexing problem of balanced competition.  The results were very interesting.

I have to pay credit to Alison "A&W" Waskom because when I began to show her my
    research, she told me that in her opinion the problem is too many high
    schools that are too small, and the answer is more regionalization. 
    She was absolutely right with her hypothesis.  That is the problem.

There are 346 high schools in Massachusetts (given the merger of the Framingham
high schools and the Weymouth high schools, and the closing of Christopher Col-
umbus High School in Boston) ranging in size from the 3420 at Brockton down to
the 33 at Medieros Hall, a private school in Braintree.  I've broken the school
sizes down into divisions by dividing the total by 5 and coming up with roughly
equivalent numerical breakdowns, without taking into account vocational schools
which are always treated differently by the MIAA.  For the single sex private
schools, I doubled the enrollment to place them fairly.

Division 1	(72)	Division 2	(73)	Division 5	(67)

3000 and up	3	1100-1149	7	300-399		31
2500-2999	0	1000-1099	21	200-299		19
2400-2499	2	900-999		19	199 or less	17
2300-2399	0	800-899		26
2200-2299	1
2100-2199	3	Division 3	(67)
2000-2099	2
1900-1999	2	700-799		25
1800-1899	1	600-699		42
1700-1799	2
1600-1699	5	Division 4	(67)
1500-1599	9
1400-1499	10	500-599		33
1300-1399	7	400-499		34
1150-1299	25

The average school size is 809, and the closest school to the average is Marl-
boro with 810.  The point at which there are half the schools above and half the
schools below is Westford at 877.  I don't remember the formula for standard de-
viation off the top of my head, but the range of numbers above the midway point
is 3 times what the range is below.  If things weren't so badly skewed, the av-
erage and mid points should be in the low thousands.  There will always be a lot
more little private schools dragging the numbers down then there will be strange
cases like Brockton dragging the numbers up.  The problem really hurts the big-
ger schools because in order to get roughly equivalent numerical divisions, the
range in school size goes from 1150-3420.  That's not fair to the small schools
who get stuck in Division 1.

Indiana went through a forced realignment back in the late fifties and I think
Massachusetts is due for the same thing.  It saves administrative overhead and
so forth, and also enables schools to offer more courses and more innovative
things.  Will it ever happen?  I doubt it.  Until regionalization is addressed,
there's no realignment plan that will really work.  Schools also have to be wil-
ling to form leagues over a wider geographical area than they do now.

Just for kicks, here's what the divisions would look like if they were done
strictly by the numbers.  Schools are in order within the divisions.  There are
schools whose enrollment is as many as 3 divisions off than the division they
actually play in!

John


(V in parens is a vocational school, B is all Boys, G is all Girls)

Division 1			Division 2		Division 3
				
Brockton			Dartmouth		Apponequet
New Bedford			Shrewsbury		Case
Durfee				Acton-Boxboro		Bishop Feehan
Lowell				Stoughton		Taconic
Greater Lowell (V)		Milford			Dighton-Rehoboth
BC High (B)			Sandwich		Stoneham
Cambridge R&L			Diman (V)		Dedham
Shrewsbury St Johns (B)		Natick			Carver
Weymouth			Revere			Watertown
Framingham			South Boston		Blackstone (V)
Plymouth			Newton South		Keefe Tech (V)
Lawrence			Salem			East Boston
Somerville			Marshfield		Masconomet
Brookline			N. Middlesex		Hoosac Valley
Springfield Central		Hyde Park		Scituate
Springfield Cathedral		Dennis-Yarmouth		Foxboro
Greater New Bedford (V)		Whitman-Hanson		Bristol-Plymouth (V)
Silver Lake			Whittier (V)		Mahar
Madison Park			Reading			Milton
Newton North			Burlington		Walpole
Danvers St Johns (B)		Chelsea			Ursuline (G)
Wachusett			Charlestown		Sharon
Chelmsford			Randolph		Cardinal Spellman
Peabody				Fitchburg		Oliver Ames
Xaverian (B)			Montachusett (V)	Canton
Waltham				West Springfield	Holliston
Greater Lawrence (V)		Needham			Mount Greylock
Boston Latin School		Somerset		Mohawk
Billerica			Brighton		Wilmington
Attleboro			Tewksbury		Dorchester
Amherst				Bellingham		Rockland
Medford				Lincoln-Sudbury		Tri County (V)
Lawrence Central Cath (B)	Worcester Burncoat	Triton
Don Bosco (B)			Gloucester		Minuteman (V)
Barnstable			Boston			Blackstone-Millville
Haverhill			Assabet Reg (V)		Nauset
Catholic Memorial (B)		Hingham			Tantasqua
Malden				Wakefield		Turners Falls
Taunton				Oakmont			Drury
Boston Latin Academy		Chicopee		Wahconah
Westfield			Lynn Tech (V)		Hampshire
Leominster			Bishop Fenwick		Newburyport
Holyoke				Norwood			Fairhaven
Boston Tech			King Philip		Marblehead
Worcester Doherty		North Andover		Bishop Stang
Springfield Commerce		Hingham Notre Dame (G)	Oxford
Lexington			Austin Prep (B)		Dom Savio (B)
Lynn English			Bay Path (V)		Hamilton-Wenham
Quincy				Worcester North		Lynn Classical
Methuen				Longmeadow		Swampscott
Northeast Regional (V)		Westford		Archbishop Williams
Bridgewater-Raynham		Northampton		Arlington Catholic
Falmouth			Middleboro		Gardner
West Roxbury			North Attleboro		Wareham
Woburn				Dracut			Worcester Vocational (V)
Malden Catholic (B)		Quabbin			Mansfield
Chicopee Comprehensive		Saugus			Greenfield
Andover				Algonquin		Mt St Joseph (G)
Pittsfield			Minnechaug		East Longmeadow
Southeast Regional (V)		Winchester		Coyle-Cassidy
Agawam				Concord-Carlisle	Nashoba Regional
Beverly				Franklin		Narragansett
Putnam (V)			Belmont			Amesbury
Braintree			Wellesley		Wayland
Shepherd Hill			Northbridge		Hull
North Quincy			Ludlow			Seekonk
Everett				Bartlett		Bedford
Melrose				Duxbury
Boston English			Danvers
Worcester South			Holy Name
Shawsheen (V)			Marlboro
Arlington			Blue Hills
				Burke


Division 4			Division 5

Holbrook			Littleton
Matignon			Mount Everett
Winthrop			North Shore (V)
Hanover				Douglas
Norton				Granby
Bourne				McCann (V)
East Bridgewater		Ipswich
Auburn				Dover-Sherborn
Ayer				Palmer
Westboro			Belchertown
Hudson				Groton-Dunstable
South Hadley			Gateway
Southbridge			Presentation of Mary (G)
Worcester Notre Dame (G)	Bromfield
Pope John			Pioneer
Tyngsboro Notre Dame (G)	Our Lady of Nazareth (G)
Frontier			Kingston Sacred Heart
Old Rochester			Worcester St Marys
Fontbonne (G)			Uxbridge
North Reading			Lee
Athol				Clinton
Millbury			West Boylston
Bishop Connolly			Harwich
David Prouty			Hopedale
Westwood			Lenox
Monument Mountain		Lawrence St Marys (G)
Norwell				North Brookfield
Old Colony (V)			Norfolk Tech (V)
Dean (V)			St Josephs
Quaboag				Nantucket
Smith Agricultural (V)		Boston Cathedral
Cape Cod (V)			Maynard
St Peter-Marian			Lynn St Marys
Pathfinder (V)			Tyngsboro
Hopkinton			Marian
Snowden				Tahanto
Cohasset			Manchester
Cardinal Cushing (G)		Murdock
Nashoba Tech (V)		Nipmuc
Abington			Millis
Ashland				Chatham
Marthas Vineyard		Bancroft
Medway				Westfield Vocational (V)
Franklin County (V)		Malden Catholic (G)
Easthampton			Mount Alvernia (G)
Georgetown			Bristol County (V)
Monsignor Ryan (G)		Mission
St Gregory (G)			Rockport
South Shore (V)			Maimonides
Lynnfield			Hopkins Academy
Monson				Provincetown
Upper Cape (V)			Smith Academy
Holyoke Catholic		St Clements
Westport			Whitinsville Christian
Medfield			Greater Lowell Catholic
Lunenburg			Lexington Christian
West Bridgewater		Avon
Fanning (V)			Weymouth Sacred Heart
St Bernards			Newton Trinity
Weston				North Cambridge Catholic
Grafton				St Columbkille
Southwick			DeSisto
Pentucket			Westfield St Marys
Leicester			Hudson Catholic
Ware				Fitchburg Notre Dame
Sutton				Southbridge Trinity
St Clare			Medieros Hall
    

    In all honesty, I realize that the idea of increased regionalization
    steps on a *lot* of long-time resident's toes.  Medway and Millis (in
    John's division 4 and 5 respectively) recently cancelled a two-year
    effort looking at regionalizing just those two schools.  [The
    regionalization study committee found *no* problems that would be
    attributable to the regionalization.  Grade schools would have stayed
    neighborhood-based, so transport of little tykes wasn't an issue.)
    The combined school would still have been in John's division 4!  This 
    is my son's school system.  Realistically - every school in division 4 
    has about 80 boys eligible to play sports.  You won't get much choice 
    in what you can try playing at with those kinds of numbers.  As
    examples, Medway has only 1 winter sport - basketball - for both boys
    and girls.  My son wanted to try wrestling, but had no where to do it. 
    I know of two other boys who wanted to try gymnastics - the program was
    dropped several years ago because they didn't have enough students to
    support a team.  :-{
    
    Personal opinion.  (For the record, I went to a regional school system
    with a high school population in excess of 4500 students, which is
    probably too large.)  A reasonable mid-point to me is a student body
    between 1000 and 1500 pupils in the high school (grades 9 - 12).  This
    allows for a fair amount of diversity in course offerings (and
    incidentally sports availability) without making the students 'numbers' 
    rather than people.  Looking at some of the info John came up with, I
    believe it is possible for the majority of public schools in this state
    to reach that.  Savings could come from a decrease in the amount of
    administrative overhead (instead of 4 school superintendents/high
    school principals/head librarians/etc).  It also has the advantage of
    allowing for increased course offerings for both the 'smart' kids who
    want to take Advanced Placement course work and vocational/business
    courses for kids who aren't too sure exactly *what* they want to do.  I
    don't expect to see it in Massachusetts in my life-time, but I'm also
    not willing to give up banging the drum from time to time.
    
    A&W

    John - Great stuff. I have extracted your note so that I can print
    it out and comment after more analysis.
    
    re .170
    
    Are you sure Medway does not have an ice hockey team? Living in
    Franklin I get the Country Gazette once a week and I could swear
    that I have seen Medway hockey results in there.
    
    Rich
    

    I don't believe that the hockey team is sponsored by the school, it
    part of a private-effort, league type thing.  (Similar to my son's
    spring soccer team.)  But I won't swear to it, since none of my son's
    friends play.
    
    A&W

    John, thanks so much for the work you've done in .169. 
    
    I agree that regionalization is needed and I think the academic
    enhancements would clearly outweigh the initial resistance to such
    a change from the entrenched set-up of today. 67 high schools with
    300 or less students in a state this size is unthinkable.
    
    I have long been an advocate for a strong county goverment system
    such as the ones used in much of the rest of the country versus
    the 351 separate kingdoms we currently have in Mass. John, you correctly
    stated that administration costs for schools alone would go down.
    Add in county police, fire and public works and your talking
    substantial savings.
    
    Two items from your school listing do jump out at me, though. Dedham
    and Walpole, the 2 foes of Brockton in the last 2 Super Bowls, would
    be in Division 3 of the new alignment. That IS interesting.
    
    I do believe, though, that re-alignment is overdue. And, judging
    by the lists John has provided us with, it would be quite possible
    to keep a regional flavor to new league set-ups. I must admit I
    am ignorant of Western Mass high schools but from what I see of
    John's list I can see where 6-8 team leagues could be initiated
    and not have any travel time of more than 1 hour.
    
    Regionalization of schools, although the right thing to do in my
    opinion, is just about out of the question at this time. To merge
    schools would require new construction which no one can afford now.
    In the case mentioned in .170, neither Millis or Medway HS could
    accommodate their own students plus the ones from the other town.
    They would need a new HS and times are just too tough now to do
    that.
    
    Thanks, John - great stuff, as always.
    
    Rich
    

    Rich -
    
    (Sorry, this is one of my hot buttons.  I encourage most of you to next
    unseen about now.  This probably belongs better in Soapbox.)
    
    In the specific instance of Millis/Medway, the high school population
    of both towns would fit in Medway's current Jr/Sr High, while the
    Junior High (6,7,8) would fit in Millis's current Jr/Sr High.  No new
    building construction would be needed for a period of about 5 years
    (may be longer, I forget specifics) while without regionalization Medway 
    will have to construct a new grade school in the next 3 years.
    
    Whole thing drives me crazy.
    
    A&W

    
    All - Interesting comments. As a member of the Holliston School
    Committee I'm going to see that a certain High School principal
    sees the list you've devised.  The premise has always worked both
    ways regarding realignment. Those that like it as it is always say
    that population alone isn't a good indicator of level of play. This
    list probably gives them some good examples. It also gives some
    for the other side. 
    
    RE: Medway/Millis I was told that the two towns couldn't agree on
    a number "bargaining" type issues and things got rather political.
    Too bad. Would have been a good mix. Regionalization in general
    requires two very similar student bodies and curriculums in order
    to work smoothly. It isn't always in the best interest of the kids.
    Under recent legislation I'ld be reluctant to regionalize a school
    system right now. Small communities lose total control over the
    schools and the State is giving virtually no money to regionalize.
    

    Enrollment isn't the only indicator of level of play, I agree.  In this
    state, however, it seems to be the primary indicator, or at least
    determinant of play level.  I think one reason why schools don't want
    to play Brockton in football is because Brockton has so many more
    students to choose from than other schools.
    
    I have to disagree with you about regionalization, however.  The
    feeling about losing control is one of the biggest problems in this
    state.  Many of the problems on the local level such as trash,
    purchasing, health care and so on are best addressed, I feel, with some
    regional effort and some sort of economies of scale.  I was in town
    politics too (Boxborough Planning Board for 3 years) and found that one
    of the biggest hassles to regional solutions was the fact that 351
    cities and towns really want to control their own destiny.  I believe
    that too many small high schools in the name of local control is very
    inefficient and ends up hurting the students in the long run - the
    entire issue of athletics aside.
    
    John

    re A&W
    
    Again - I thought Medway HS played hockey in the Tri-Valley league.
    
    Thanks for that info on Medway/Millis and the student populations
    at the respective schools. It just goes to show that the old New
    England mindset of local control still pervades over common sense.
    
    John, you and I are on the right wavelength. Perhaps we should run
    for statewide office on a Regional Platform which espouses radical
    reform to get us out of the fiscal mess we're in.
    
    As a true example of how regionalization could work I look at my
    present town of Franklin. Because 2 entire wings of the HS could
    not be filled, they turned that part of the HS into an elementary
    school (K-5). They then closed an elementary school. Could not the
    Medway HS kids have been assimilated into the Franklin HS instead
    of putting 1st graders in with HS seniors?
    
    In athletics I think the biggest obstacle is with the old town jocks
    who just can't stand to see the break-up of traditional leagues. But
    given the fact that this state will never get into wholesale
    regionalization there must be re-allignment. An alumni from Walpole,
    like me, will have to swallow my pride and realize that the only
    Division I tournament we play in is in football. But we can realign
    and be the best in Division III as far as I'm concerned. Needham
    will still play Wellesley on Thanksgiving and Belmont will still
    play Watertown. What's the hang-up?
    
    Rich
     
    

    Among the hangups to league realignment are the following:
    
    1.  Travel distance - most of the leagues, at least in Eastern Mass,
    are based on geographic proximity.  This is fine as long as the schools
    are relatively equal in size.  Eastern Mass natives in general are used
    to not having to travel great distances for shopping, school and so
    forth.
    
    2.  Traditional rivalries - again geographically based.  This is really
    only important in football, but the only high school home games that
    make any money are usually the Thanksgiving Day game, unless two
    unbeaten teams meet late in the season.
    
    3.  The football rating system itself - Because it's based on strength
    of schedule, it's very important that all teams in a league be in the
    same division, otherwise, a Division 1 team in a league (such as
    Framingham) would have no chance of ever making a Super Bowl because
    all its league opponents would be Division 2 or less.  There's no way
    they could ever get enough rating points to make it.  Conversely, a
    Walpole or a Milton in that same league stands a great chance of making
    its Super Bowl because it would be playing all larger schools and would
    pick up a larger amount of rating points than a comparable school in an
    all Division 3 league.
    
    The Boston Archdiocese will face the same situation in the near future
    - too many churches, not enough priests.  Clinton, where I now live,
    has 3 Catholic churches and the town population is around 12,000. 
    That's at least one too many churches.  But try to close one?  Not on
    your life!
    
    Rich, that's an excellent point about what happened in Franklin.  I
    believe a regional scheme would have been better than mixing elementary
    school kids with high school kids.
    
    John

    Rich -
    
    I found a member of the hockey team last night and asked him.  The
    Medway hockey team is in fact school sponsored.  I goofed - a not
    completely uncommon occurance.
    
    I'll shut up on the rest of it - I have a tendency to get boring :-)
    
    A&W

    
    RE: Mixing elementary with High School students
    
    	We should probably take this to the MASSACHUSETTS notesfile
    but since we got started -
    
    	I know of a number of systems that have done this with great
    results. In Holliston one of the results of this was a pilot for
    a national "great books" program that had High School juniors helping
    third and fourth graders read and comprehend classic literature
    (Kipling, etc). The traditional great books program required too
    much teacher involvement. Now a teacher oversees the entire program
    but it is "taught" by pairs of students.
    	There is always great fear of non-traditional grade realignments.
    While the younger kids are exposed to more the older kids appear
    to have a greater respect for what not to expose these kids to than
    do the adults they see every day.
    
    RE: loss of control
    
    	If we could put in place a good county/state system with funding
    done 100% from county/state funds then I have no problem with 
    regionalization. The lack of control over how the regional system
    budgets and spends today is of great concern. If you are currently
    in a regional system you know that a majority of the communities
    must disapprove the budget in order for anyone to get relief. If
    you are the only one who appears to care about it then you're out
    of luck. In the vocational system we belong to there are two large
    fairly well off towns, one medium size financially ok town, one
    small financially ok town (mine), and one small struggling town.
    Two towns consistently vote a smaller appropriation than requested
    while the other three rubber stamp the budget. We almost got one
    of them to change their mind this year but they "found" some money
    at the end of town meeting. 

    It was tough going for most of the game but Leominster beat (duh,
    I can't remember who) 27-3.  Blue Devils are now 2-0.  They beat
    Weymouth 6-0, in week one.
    
    First home game this Friday night.

    Re: .181
    
    They beat Algonquin I believe.
    
    John

    Does Leominster play Brockton this year?
    
    
    py

    Leominster plays Brockton, in Leominster, on 10/26.

    Do they play the real St. Johns (i.e., in Shrewsbury)?

    Re: -1
    
    Does that mean the mighty Blue Devils are avoiding the defending
    District III champions and favoring a "cake" schedule? ;-)
    
    Mike

	There was a local (Mass) H.S. football acheivement that deserves some
note in here. In a 10-0 victory of St. John's Prep, Xaverian's placekicker
M. C. Minko kicked a 48 yard field goal. Boy that seems like a looonnnng boot
for H.S., considering most schools in these parts don't have a good enough
kicker to regularly attemp PATs!!!

	John H., do you know if the MIAA keeps a record of longest FG made?

JimH

    Re: -1
    
    Is he free on Sunday's to go to Foxboro? ;-)
    
    Re: -2 & living in the past
    
    Whadda ya expect living 3000 miles away!  My wife was a Blue Devilette.
    I still haven't told her about last year, but she knows about '88 ;-)
    
    Mike

    The MIAA keeps its football stats so inconsistently I wouldn't believe
    any of their individual records they have.  I offered to teach a
    seminar through the MIAA to help the individual team statisticans do a
    more accurate and consistent job and got nowhere.  Most high school
    football stats are kept by the writers at a game, there will probably
    be as many different results at a game as there are sportwriters and if
    my experience with the writers at Patriots games are any indication,
    they don't know the rules anyway.
    
    This is not meant to bash anyone, but the rules of football official
    scoring are not as intuitively obvious to the media and to fans as are
    the rules in baseball, basketball and hockey.  If I were to put
    together a quiz on the rules of the 4 sports and make the questions of
    relatively equal difficulty, I'm willing to bet the lowest scores would
    be on the football quiz.  If you want some examples, I'll be happy to
    give them.
    
    I imagine it's close to an individual record but I'm not sure how
    accurate the individual records are.  The records for wins, losses and
    points scored are probably very good, but not the other stuff.
    
    John

Okay, John.  Don't just tempt us.  

Invite us into the the Statistician's Circle.  Enlighten us with
the rule for dastistically scoring football.

I know it would enhance my viewing pleasure.  Seriously.

Deen to wonk.

'Saw

    LHS pounded Marlboro, 31-0.  Haven't given up a TD yet.  Brockton
    lost 24-6 to #4, in the nation, DeMatha (sp?).

    
    
    When does Leominster play Brockton?

       Leominster has given up a total of 3 points in 3 games.
                                     Denny

    
    Where can I get tickets for the Leominster/Brockton game?

    Get them at Doyle Field, the night of the game.  

       They'll be selling them at the school a coupla weeks before the
    game.
                                               denny

    
    I'll talk to Lafay's bro... he can probably get them for me...

    You guys call this High School Football ?
    
    Come down to Houston ... now THAT'S football !!!!!!

    Can anyone provide me the nickname of the Brocton High football team?

    
    Brockton Bombers?  or am I thinking of someone else?
    
    Dickster
    

    	The Boxers

    
    
    Boxers is correct.....
    
    Named for Rocky Marciano (sp?)
    
    
    Lou

    
    Boxers is correct.
    
    A pair of Shorts is the teams mascot.
    
    JD

    I think it's the Brockton "sure we got a good team 'cause we got
    5000 kids to pick from" or SWGAGTCWG5000KTPF.
    
    NAZZ

    
    
    Re .210
    
    
    What do you expect from a team who has a coach...who when asked about
    a few of his top players having academic problems stated...
    
    I don't care about that, I just want them to play football.
    
    We had a guy here that knew the coach, and that conversation was about
    Harris and the kid that went to BC, and was academically ineligable
    to play the next year.
    
    
    Lou

    Speaking of football, although this pertains to Pop Warner, not high
    school, does anyone know what the heck is going on with 3 or 4 coaches
    being kicked-out and a whole Pop Warner football team suspended for the
    rest of the season?  This, I think is here in Mass.  There was
    something on the 11 o'clock news last night, but I fell asleep just
    before......  Anyone hear of this?
    
    Hawk

    Re: .212
    
    I believe it had to do with a Dedham Pop Warner team and something
    like 6 kids had false birth certificates.
    
    John

>    I believe it had to do with a Dedham Pop Warner team and something
>    like 6 kids had false birth certificates.
    
    There were 6 15 year old kids on the team. A kid from Hull got hammered
by one of the bigger kids and broke his collarbone in 4 places. An investigation
started, and the falsified records were found. The league they play in is
under some type of warning or something from the National Pop Warner
assciation for having a bunch of too old kids on various teams over the
last couple of years. The team has been disbanded for this year, and they
banned the coaches for life. The coaches, or at least one of them was
interviewed, and said: "We never saw any brith certificates, we were handed a
roster, and worked from that". 

	This MAY be true, as it worked this way in my Little League, although
we did supply ages to the coaches. All the same, if the coaches had been there 
for a couple of years, they probably knew who the kids were and whether they
were old enough or not. Bad situation for all involved.

	Jim M

    Not only were the kids too old, but I heard some of them were over the
    weight limit as well.
    
    John

I suppose nothing's been proven yet, but if so, that really pisses me
off.

Youth sports are supposed to be about kids learning sportsmanship,
teamwork, doing the right thing.  Nowadays, you've got all these
adults who just care about kids winning, winning, winning.

I'm not an expert on kids, but at that age a year can make a LOT of
difference.

What's the world coming to.....

'Saw

    > .....collarbone broken in 4 places.....
    
    Ouch!  I know the feeling, although mine only broke in one spot.  My 6
    year old boy right now is recovering from a broken collarbone!
    
    Hawk

    I heard one of the fired coaches on the radio yesterday.  He's quite
    upset over being fired.
    
    He said he coached for something like 10 years, then quit.  He was
    out a few years, and then the league got after him to return.
    Eventually, he did, and claims that the rosters are provided to
    them.  Since he hadn't coached for some time, he wanted to know
    how he was supposed to have remembered these kids having played
    for "x" years.  That's the premise, that the coaches should have
    known the kids were too old because they've played for so many years.
    Also, that they should have known because of the size of the kids.
    
    Whatever, it's a shame as it's totally unfair to the kids who are
    of the correct age.  Not only do some of them not get to play because
    of these overage kids, but I'm sure there were other injuries which
    may have been caused due to being hit by older kids.
    
    And, what about the parents of these kids?  Are they so high on
    the achievements of their children that they just ignored this
    situation, or where they ignorant of the requirements?  I can't
    believe that all of them didn't know of the age limit.  
    
    Gimme sandlot games anytime.  Maybe we didn't have the best equipment,
    and little to no coaching, but we sure had fun.  And, we wouldn't
    play against 17 year-olds when we were just 13 or so.  Unless, of
    course, they threatened us with bodily injury, which did happen
    once.  We played, and we almost beat them.  Boy, were they p*ssed!
    
    Lee

  re -.1

>>    Gimme sandlot games anytime.  Maybe we didn't have the best equipment,
>>    and little to no coaching, but we sure had fun.  And, we wouldn't
>>    play against 17 year-olds when we were just 13 or so.  Unless, of
>>    course, they threatened us with bodily injury, which did happen
>>    once.  We played, and we almost beat them.  Boy, were they p*ssed!
  
That reminds me of our pickup football, baseball, and street hockey games,
Lee.  We were scared skinny when the big kids came to pick on us and
dominate the game.

It never occurred to us that we were gonna get bigger, too.

It sure was funny to bump into them a few years later when size, weight, and
ability were more equal.  In fact, it's even funnier to bump into them now
when I go home!

rick ellis

    Rick, did you ever run into one of them who used to have the biggest
    mouth, and now you find that he didn't grow anymore and he's smaller
    than you?  Makes you want to put on the pads and helmet and get
    one more shot at him on a line plunge!  :*)
    
    Lee

    LHS Blue Devils 42?  Lowell 21.  Brockton game this Friday...

    Karen, where's the Blue Debils-Brockton game being played?  (And,
    where's my punk tape? :-) ).
    
    If the game's in Leominster, can you post directions please?  Oh yeah,
    how much to get in (adults and kids)?
    
    Hawk

    The game is in Leominster.  I have no idea how much tickets are...
    but they are selling them Wednesday and Thursday night, at the
    High School.  
    
    The tape is in the mail.  (-:
    
    I'll get ya directions soon...  'cause I don't know what the exit
    number is off of Rt. 2.    Maybe someone else can put them in.  
    /Slasher?  Denny?

    I'd also be grateful to know the costs of tix for me and the kiddies
    beforehand.  Whether I go, or not, depends on how much I gotta come up
    with....  Also, is it usually a sell-out?  In other words, will there
    be tickets at the gate?
    
    Hawk

    Sell-out?!  No way.  There will definitely be tickets at the gate.
    
    I just called the High School.  3 bucks.  2 bucks for students and
    senior citizens.
    
    HTH.

    How long does one have to be out of high school to be considered a
    senior citizen?  :-)  Maybe I should have LeE buy my ticket!  :-)
    
    > HTH.
    
    It did.  Thanks much.  Now I only need directions......
    
    Hawk

    
    Hey speaking of tapes...Where's my Dead tape from Foxboro?
    
    
    
    Steve

Do any Massachusetts area High Schools play rugby?

I know some do in the Philadelphia area, but I was just curious....


thanks,
'Saw

    >Hey speaking of tapes...Where's my Dead tape from Foxboro?
    
    Hey Steve!  Send me the blanks...  I don't do freebee's  (-: (-:

       Hawk, take 495 So. to Rte 2 West. Take the rte 13 exit. At the end
    of the exit ramp, take a left. Go about a quarter mile or so and take 
    your first right. Jist follow the traffic.
                                       Denny

    Thanks, Denny.  BTW, I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet, but what
    the hail time does the game start?  Also, do the high schoolers still
    bring flasks to the games?  :-)
    
    Hawk

       I think it starts at 7:30, but I'll check. I stand behind the
    end-zone when I go, I've seen a few flasks back there. Don't think it's
    a good idea if'n you sit in the stands though.
                                   Denny

    
    Leominster games usually start at 7:00.
    
    
    Lou

       You're prob'ly right. I stop at the bar first!
                                     Denny

    > I stop at the bar first!
    
    That's so ya don't have to guzzle what's in the flask by the 2nd
    quarter, eh Denny?  Makes sense to me!
    
    Hawk

    
    RE: Rugby
    
    I believe there are some schools that play rugby. Mostly private
    schools. Check the Sunday Globe or call the MIAA in Milford.
    

    Brockton kicked Leominster's butt, 42-21.

       Amazing game eh Karen? Brockton never even punted. The game wasn't
    as close as the score.
                                Denny

    What the heck, might as well mention this here ...
    
    This year, the SportsChannel cable network has been showing selected
    Friday night high school football games and televising them across the
    country.
    
    This Friday night, 2-Nov-1990, the spotlight turns to Rock Hill, South
    Carolina, my new home of about 9 months.   The Rock Hill High Bearcats
    play against the Northwestern High Trojans.   Last year, these two
    teams played two titanic battles.   Their first game was during the
    regular season, both were undefeated, and Rock Hill won in triple
    overtime.  They met again in the state semifinals and Northwestern
    avenged their loss and went on the next week to take the state crown.
    
    This year, Rock Hill has two losses and Northwestern one but they're
    both still in the title hunt so it will be a huge game.  This town
    comes to a dead stop on the night of this game.   Lots of excitement. 
    Big headlines in the papers.  You name it.   And with the television
    coverage this year, it's even more intense.
    
    If you get SportsChannel and you get a chance, check it out.  You'll
    see just how serious these folks take their football in upstate South
    Carolina.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Thanks for letting us know Bob.  I'll probably check it out this
    friday.  
    
    I happened to catch part of the "famed" Moeller High game this past
    friday night.  (Yes, I did not go to the Leominster-Brockton game. 
    Let's just say that PMS had something to do with it).  Anyway, it
    didn't appear to be such a great game, and I wasn't impressed by
    Moeller at all.  Maybe they're not that good of a team this year?
    The part that aggravated me a *lot* was seeing all those stars on the
    Moeller players' helmets.  I'm not against a helmet "sticker" given to
    players for key/spectacular plays made, but you should've seen some of
    these kids' helmets.  Way too much.  Reminded me of how some of us bash
    the Miami Hurricanes for celebrating after each time a player ties his
    laces!  These Moeller kids must all be some kind of athletes!  Unreal.
    
    Hawk

    Re: taking high school football serious in the south
    
    My Pop Warner team, the '75 Clinton Raiders, were undefeated over a 3
    year span.  The third year we were invited to the Spindle Bowl in North
    Carolina, which featured other P.W. teams from all over the East Coast. 
    The local team played in a large stadium and we couldn't believe the
    crowds that came out to watch!  They waisted us too, 28-0!
    
    Mike

    Hawk, hope you're feeling better today!  Sorry you couldn't go to
    the Leominster-Brocton game, tho.  :*)
    
    Lee

    
    Caught part of the Moeller game myself, wasn't impressed either.
    
    They looked too much like Notre Dame! 
    
    :-)
    

    Thanks for your concern, Lee.  :-)  Yeah, that Post Matrimony Syndrome
    sure is a bitch!  But I got over it by the morning.......
    
    Hawk

    	Hawk, if you liked last year's Super Bowl, or Romans throwing
    Christians to the lions, or any Road Warrior 'rasslin match then
    you would've liked Friday's Brockton/Leominister game.  If not then
    you didn't miss much.  Most action of the night was the kids behind
    us spraying their friends with that silly string stuff.
    
    				/Don

    I missed the game, too.  Although, from what the papers said, I didn't 
    miss much.  42 points....  That's the most given up in...what?  more
    than 3 years, at least.
    
    St. Johns is still undefeated.  Hi Mike.  (-:

>    St. Johns is still undefeated.  Hi Mike.  (-:
    
    Was there ever a doubt?  Too bad they don't play Brockton.  They'd show
    the Blue Devils how to get it done!
    
    Mike

    	I'll take Brockton and give 35 points if St. John's ever gets
    enough seeds to play the Boxers.

    /don, you know how RUDE those Catholic schools can be to Boston's
    finest! ;-)  The Pioneers would be all over them like white on rice!
    
    Mike

    Fellow noters - I need your assistance.
    
    Sunday's (yesterday's) Boston Glob had a feature article on the Medway
    soccer team.  By the time I found out, all stores in town had sold out
    of the paper.  If any of you still have the Glob, could you please send
    me a copy of the article?  
    
    Medway won the quarter-final yesterday against Harwich, 4-1.  I musta
    done something right, [ :-) ] 'cause the refs called a reasonable game 
    - seeing the instigating push/shove/trip/nastiness and penalizing *that*, 
    rather than the inevitable retaliation.
    
    A&W

    Final score from Friday' night's SportsChannel nationally televised
    high school game was ...
    
    	Rock Hill 17, Northwestern 0.
    
    This was a mild upset as Northwestern went into the game 9-1 and Rock
    Hill was 8-2.  But Rock Hill shut down the Trojans' passing game and
    ground out a few of their l-o-n-g drives to keep control of the ball
    and the score.
    
    Rock Hill also got a 96-yard TD kickoff return to open the second half.
    
    Did anyone else catch any of this game on SportsChannel ???  What did
    you think ???   The excitement here in Rock Hill was intense.
    
    Bob Hunt

My Alma Mater, Glastonbury High is ranked #1 in Connecticut, and
are undefeated at 14-0-2.


And as an interesting aside, I caught a special program yesterday
on Connecticut PBS about the 1965 Little League World Champs
from Windsor Locks, CT.   The reason I mention this is that
one of the players now resides in Medway MA.  At first I couldn't
remember why Medway sounded familiar... now I do....


'Saw

    I've had someone offer me a copy of the paper.  
    
    A&W
    

    Walpole High, the last Massachusetts team to beat Brockton HS, is
    rolling along at 8-0 and headed for the Super Bowl again. If it can get
    by Norwood, the Rebels will be there again.
    
    Rich
    

    Rich Brake, welcome back!
    
    How's the south?
    
    Mark.

    Re: Walpole & Brockton
    
    Which team has more police convictions? ;-)
    
    Mike

    re Mark,
    
    Still in training in beatiful downtown Nashua til December 7. 
    
    re Mike,
    
    Please enlighten me as to your comment about police convictions and how
    they apply to Walpole.
    
    Rich
    

>    Please enlighten me as to your comment about police convictions and how
>    they apply to Walpole.
    
    Just a crack at Brockton's reputation and Walpole being the home of
    maximum security.
    
    Mike

    Mike, since you've been away for so long, you should know that there is
    no such thing as MCI Walpole anymore. It is now MCI Cedar Junction.
    
    Rich
    

    > It is now MCI Cedar Junction.
    
    Yeah, and now there's a railroad in town.  Uncle Joe is the engineer
    and there's some cute girls runnin' around in petticoats.....
    
    HTH.
    
    Hawk

    Lotsa curves, you bet,
    Even more, when you get
    TO THE JUNCTION!!!
    
    
    JaKe
    

    What about Billi Jo and Bobbi Jo?

    I don't care what junction is in Wapole, if they can beat Brockton in
    the SB, they're OK by me!  Is John Lee still the coach?  He was coach
    back when I was in high school, and one year we (North Quincy) did a
    joint football camp with them.  I remember that "Big John" was pretty
    revered by his players.

    Leominster lost to Wachusett, 14-13.  Honest.  (-:

       Wallace the RB had a chance to win it at the end with a 4th and goal
    from the one. He didn't make it. Not coincidentaly he was the Pats
    'student athlete' of the week at the game yesterday. So the Pats are
    even having an effect on the Debils! 
       I'm still trying to figure out why Dubzinski didn't kick the FG, he
    was only down by 1. So what if one was blocked earlier.
                                      Denny

    I heard it was something to do with angles...  Good thing Fitchburg
    lost or it would have been a very interesting Turkey Day game.  They 
    had a chance to make the Superbowl, too.
    
    Don't know how St. John's did.

    I mentioned in the Rugby note that some high school football games were
    cancelled in my area due to the torrential rain.  However, some games
    were still played, notably, the Lawrence High-Central Catholic game.  I
    read in the paper that the decision to play was pretty much left up to
    the players.  Field conditions were poor- sloppy and muddy.  After the
    game, players were throwing themselves on the mudslide at midfield,
    having a good old time.  The Central Catholic commented on how much fun
    his players had and how they'll remember that game forever.  He
    wouldn't be saying that had a player on either team broke his neck and
    became paralyzed for life........
    
    Hawk

    
    So, Hawk, did Spicket High kill The Mill or what????
    
    Dickster, an enquiring mind from Central Catholic '67
    

    How did St. Johns do?
    
    Mike

    
    
    RE ST. JOHNS
    
    
    Beat BC 15-6
    
    
    Lou

    Actually, I'm 50-50 on this issue of whether to play (high school
    football) in conditions such as Saturday's.  Sure, paralyzing injuries
    can and will occur under any condition.  It's just that, someone will
    always point the finger (read: lawsuit) and say that the playing
    conditions were not acceptable.  But, just what is acceptable? 
    Apparantly, high schools that did postpone Saturday's game determined
    that, although, like you pointed out 'Saw, it could've been to
    save the field.  I'd like to think that it was for humane reasons,
    however........
    
    Hawk

    Oooops!  Sorry, Dickster!  Central beat Lawrence, 26-0.
    
    Hawk

    Hawk, I'd be willing to bet it was more to preserve the field.  Perhaps
    it was out of fear for a lawsuit, but I doubt it was out of fear of
    injury.
    
    When I was playing HS ball, I don't remember ever cancelling a game due
    to inclement weather.  I know we would have been pretty disappointed if
    it had happened.  And it would have seemed pretty silly to do so.

Agreed.

In Colt Park in Hartford, we're the only people manly (or foolish ;^))
enough to play in that kind of weather.

But actually, the Parks Dept does not want the Pop Warner football
or soccer leagues playing in that weather, and they tell them that.
They will severely mess up their fields.

However, the field we play on is called "The Rock", and stays hard
even when it's soaked like on Saturday.  It's clearly the worst
field in the park, and they don't care if we chew it up.  

We were so spoiled two weeks ago when we were able to practice
on the field that UCONN uses out in Mansfield...

'Saw

    
    >      Central beat Lawrence, 26-0.
    
    Ooooohhhhh....Ohhhhhhhhhhhh....Uh...Uh....UH! UH! GAWWWWWWWWWD!!!!
    
    I just luv it when that happens!!!!  Now I hafta go dry my pants.
    
    Dickster
    

    High School Super Bowl Pairings for Saturday, December 1:
    
    Western Mass at Springfield College
    
    Division 1	Holyoke (9-1) vs Northampton (10-0), 11AM
    Division 2, Monument Mountain (9-0-1) vs Ware (9-0), 2PM
    
    Central Mass at WPI
    
    Division 3, Bay Path (10-0) vs Narragansett (9-1), 945AM
    Division 1, Shrewsbury St Johns (9-1) vs Leominster (8-2), 1230PM
    Division 2, North Middlesex (9-1) vs Northbridge (9-1), 3PM
    
    Eastern Mass at BU
    
    Division 4, East Bridgewater (10-0) vs Matignon (9-1), 10AM
    Division 5, Nantucket (10-0) vs Greater Lowell (9-0), 130PM
    
    Eastern Mass at Foxboro
    
    Division 2, Winchester (10-0) vs Walpole (10-0), 945AM
    Division 1, Peabody (10-0) vs Tewksbury (9-1), 1PM
    Division 3, Lynn English (10-0) vs Swansea Case (10-0), 4PM
    
    John

    Holy Cow! 
    
    > Division 2, Mounument Mountain (9-0-1) vs Ware (9-0), 2PM
                  --------------------------
    
    My Alma Mater in the Division 2 Super Bowl! Who woulda thunk
    it!  I haven't been following HS sports that much recently, but the 
    Spartans have done well over the last few years, with several league
    titles. Of course, the first league title ever was in 1977, when I was 
    a 150-lb defensive end. We scored 200 points and gave up 12 that year.
    
    Tom 

    Anyone watch 60 Minutes last night?  If you did, you know why I ask, if
    not, it's not worth explaining.
    
    	--dan'l

>    Division 1, St Johns (Shrewsbury) (9-1) vs Leominster (8-2), 1230PM
    
    HA HA HA HA!

    Yeah, I saw 60 minutes, and also read the excerpts from that book when
    it was published in SI earlier this year.
    
    I've become more and more annoyed at 60 Minutes over the last few
    yearI don't know if those old coots are losing it, but they seem to ask
    the LAMEST questions, while overlooking obvious follow-ups.
    
    Anyway, the issue here is that a writer spent a year living in the
    town, getting to know people, doing lots of interviews, and wrote a
    book about Perlman HS's football program. They play in a 20,000 seat
    astro-turf stadium, and have won a billion titles in the last couple of
    decades. 
    
    The premise of his book is that there is little else going on in this
    depressed W. Texas town, now that the oil industry has dried up. People
    turn to football as a rallying point, and a sense of community pride.
    The book, I gather, pointed out some of the negatives, like too much
    emphasis on football, not enough on academics. The mayor pointed out
    that the schools avg. SAT scores were slightly above average state
    wide, but slightly below average nation-wide. 
    
    It turns out that a lot of people in the town are very upset at this 
    author, since he was probably very nice and polite when talking with these 
    people (you don't get too much material if you piss off everyone), yet 
    wrote about the negative side of HS football and life in the town. I
    think there's some truth that criticism is harder to accept from an 
    outsider, especially a damn Yankee from Philadelphia! 
    
    60 Minutes did NOT interview former players of say 25 years old, who
    had been out of HS long enough to be past gridiron glory and on with
    the rest of life. What are these people doing now? 
    They IMPLIED that football players were steered into taking easy
    courses to stay elligible, but didn't come out and say it.
    They also riddled the segment with comments like: "90 percent of the
    students say they would like to go to college".... Hmmm, now if I was
    BillyBob Average, workin' at my part-time job at Mel's Mobil, and CBS TV
    came to me and asked if I wanted to go to college, I sure as hail
    wouldn't want to look stupid, so I'd say "Yess'r, you bet"  Instead
    they should have said what % actually DO go to college.
    
    The recation I got from the segment was "So What? They are getting to
    be just like the colleges." The 60 Minutes piece raised more questions
    than it answered, but then again, that's what most of their segments
    seem to do....
    
    Tom

    re-1
    
    
      People in Texas do not need a depression or any other cause to Rally
    behind the Team. High School Football is a religion in most towns.
    Having 6, 6A 11 man Division's makes for some heavy competition.
    Towns not big enough to field a team will consolidate with other small
    towns to create one. 
    
      You could navigate the state on Friday via the lite stadiums. And you
    better hope you do not get stuck behind a line of Buses caring the Team,
    the Band, the Drill Team, the Cheer Leaders, the Pep Squad, the Boosters 
    Club or the families.
    
    	
    
    	Cadzilla
    
    	One of Hairy Larry's Lion's GHS 1967

    John H. -
    
    I admit that I still do not understand the Mass High School football
    ratings very well and that is why I ask you this question:
    
    Since Brockton did not lose to a Massachusetts team and Tewksbury did,
    why aren't the Boxers going to the Div I Bowl this year?
    
    John Lee's Rebels from Walpole look to extend the state's longest
    unbeaten string this Saturday versus Winchester. Walpole does not have
    the prolific QB of years past when they had Todd Collins, Matt Rogers
    and Bill von Klock. Mannering is more of a running option QB and
    Eldridge can flat out fly. Winchester will, like Brockton, be bigger,
    physically, than the Rebels so Walpole needs to play perfect
    fundamental football to prevail.
    
    Go Walpole - the LAST Massachusetts team to beat Armand Columbo.
    
    Rich
    

    Because out-of-state games count in the ratings, Rich.
    
    John

    Leominster rolled over Fitchburg, 27-0...  
    
    Anyone gonna be at WPI on Saturday?

    re .284 .285
    
    I read the book, and I thought it was well balanced. But the parent's
    priorties are skewed. 
    
    And I'm from a Texas, and went to a H.S. that was a football power.
    
    Bissinger wasn't far off the mark.
    
    Dr Midnight

>    Go Walpole - the LAST Massachusetts team to beat Armand Columbo.
 
	I thought Leominster was the last MA team to beat them?
    

    
    
    Walpole beat Brockton in the Super Bowl last year.
    
    
    Lou

    Peabody		20	Tewksbury	14
    Winchester		23	Walpole		16
    Case		14	Lynn English	 0
    E. Bridgewater 	18	Matignon	 8
    Gr. Lowell		22	Nantucket	14
    
    Leominster		24	St Johns	 3
    N. Middlesex 	45	Northbridge	20
    Narragansett 	31	Bay Path	30
    
    Holyoke		24	Northampton	14
    Monument Mountain	 8	Ware		 6
    
    John

I watched part of the Greater Lowell vs Nantucket game on NESN.

Is there really enough year round population on Nantucket to have
a HS football team?  I was surprised.  I'm sure it's just my ignorance
of how things are done in another state....

It must be hell on away games for them...like ferry to the vineyard,
ferry to the mainland, flight to Boston...8^)

Any info, greatly appreciated!
'saw

    a friend of mine claimed that Nantucket had an enrollment of 250,
    while Lowell had something like 3,000.  Can this be correct?
    and if so, how could they put the team in the same division.
    
    Any info on this would be helpful.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob V.
    

    blame it on the full moon

    Somehow, it looks like that Baypath/Narragansett game was a real dilly. 
    Anyone have any word on how that one went?
    
    A&W 

    
    
    It was a great game.
    
    
    Nar. jumped off to an 18-8 lead. BP made it 18-16 at the half.
    
    Bp went out in front 30-18 in the 3'rd quarter.
    
    Naragansette kept missing PAT's which was killing them. BP kept getting
    their's (4 of 5 2 pointers)
    
    When the score reached 30-18, the mindless fans for BP started singing
    we're number one...still in the 3'rd quarter. It was like a wake up
    call. Gansette came back and made it 30-24. They then intercepted a
    pass around BP's 40, but couldn't score.
    
    BP took over again, but buy now Gansette could taste the victory.
    
    They took over, deep in BP's territory after a bad punt, and with less
    than 2 1/2 minutes to go, ran a draw play from the 31(I believe), and
    Sund ran it in for the score. They finaly gave up on going for two
    and kicked the single PAT for a 30-31 victory.
    
    
    They held, took over the ball, and had it on the BP one, then in a
    classy move, kneeled on the ball, letting time run out.
    
    It was a great game. 
    
    
    Lou

    .....sounds like it was an exciting game for both sides.
    
    A&W

    Vocational schools are in the lowest division in Mass, regardless of
    school size, because most kids at voke schools don't participate in
    sports.  The Boston public schools, except for Boston Latin, are in
    divisions far below what their enrollment calls for - same reasons plus
    inadequate funding plus horrible facilities.
    
    Nantucket is the smallest school in Mass that plays football.  They
    have about 100 boys in the school and about 70 of them are involved in
    football.  Their logistical problems are horrible.  It's a 2.5 hour
    ferry ride to the mainland, so they normally leave on Friday nights and
    go overnight, the only football team in the state that does so.  They
    always have buses waiting for them on the mainland.  Their smaller
    teams fly to the mainland.  Nantucket makes up for it with phenomenal
    community support because once the tourists leave, it's practically all
    they've got.  Martha's Vineyard has similar problems but since they're
    only 45 minutes from the mainland (Woods Hole is where the Vineyard
    ferries dock, as opposed to Hyannis for the Nantucket ferries) their
    problems aren't as bad.
    
    A&W, Stu McRury was named Division 3 Player of the Year by the Globe
    and Wes Truscott was named Coach of the Year.
    
    John

>        <<< Note 88.299 by FSOA::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 292-2170" >>>
>
>    Vocational schools are in the lowest division in Mass, regardless of
>    school size


Is this really true?   I thought there was a big to-do this past season
because Assabet Valley Voc. School in Marlboro was moved up to Divison II
in football?    And I find it hard to believe that some of the Eastern
Mass Voke schools like Minuteman, Greater Lowell, Shawsheen, etc. are at
the lowest division.

>, because most kids at voke schools don't participate in
>    sports. 

That's not true at Assabet.  They have an excellent athletic program... and
always have.    When I coached their JV basketball team, I had to cut a 
dozen freshman and sophmores and kept 14 {probably 2 more than I should
have}.

There are great difficulties with participating in sports and attending a
voke school... When I was a senior at Assabet, I would work at DEC from
7:30 to 2:30 5 days a week, every other week from October to April.... and
then go to basketball or track practice or games right from work.  When we
had away games at places like Whittier Voke in Haverhill, it was a LONG day.

    I was wrong about Voke schools, I guess.  This is based on my
    experience with most of the schools in Eastern Mass.  I really have no
    clue on how Central Mass does things.
    
    John

    
    My mother's alma mater is Bay Path.  It is/was known as a secretarial
    JC.  Congrats to 'gansett on a victory of which they should be proud.
    
    What is the team called?  The 'gansett Grabbers?  The school motto must
    be "life is too short to drink cheap beer."  Hawk must be the team
    trainer.
    
    Bruce

    John -
    
    Thanks for the info on Stu and Wes.  (Can you save the article for me
    if there is one?)
    
    A&W

    Hats off to Winchester and their QB, McGrath. The guy is a super
    Wishbone QB. 
    
    Walpole seemed to believe in their press clippings too much, much like
    Brockton did last year. General Lee's defense also had no effective way
    to stop the 'Bone.
    
    Rich
    

    Greateer Lowell is indeed a Voke school (known simply as "the Voke"
    in these parts).  There are about 600 students there, from Lowell,
    Dracut, Tyngsboro, and one other town that I forget at the moment.
    Lowell High is the place with almost 3000 students.
    
    NAZZ

    RE .306
    
    THANKS NAZZ!
    
    Even in this state 3,000 vs 250 seemed a bit much!
    
    Bob V.