Conference 7.286::sports_90

   This was Ted Turner's brain child. I think it's a good idea, but the
   rest of T.V. never bought into it (they could have). Caught a little
   bit - at least I think it was Goodwill Games - it was scrawny girls
   doing floor exercise gymnastics, which I don't like: I think the things
   they can do are amazing (of course, I think people who can put their
   toes in their nose are amazing to begin with), but I don't find it very
   interesting to watch.

   Mike JN

   PS - HI Kev!

    CALL YOUR CABLE COMPANY AND COMPLAIN!!  I think that *must* be what
    happened in my town, as Friday night we had the junk movies on TBS, but
    Saturday I got the Goodwill Games.
    
    Commentary so far is pretty good.  The central staff is kinda hokey,
    but the individual sports announcers mostly know their stuff.  Lots of
    familiar faces, mostly the good ones.
    
    The performances by the atheletes themselves have been great.  The
    Russian men have been outstanding in gymnastics.  The US is cleaning up
    in the pool, mostly.  Matt Biondi lost to the guy from Surinam in the
    100m butterfly - again (this was a replay of the '88 Olympic race). 
    The 100m free had a *tie* for first place!  Janet Evans came in 2nd in
    the 400 individual medley, to a girl who will be her teammate at
    Stanford next year.
    
    I'm enjoying it tremendously - but then I'm an Olympics junkie from way
    back.  The atheletes themselves seem to be taking it very seriously. 
    Kind of a mid-way checkpoint to see how they're doing between Olympics. 
    And for those of you in Seattle, the city is coming across as a great
    place.  Hope you get to see some of the action.
    
    A&W

       Cablevision in Leominster doesn't have TBS, just TNT. The Games were
    on C-SPAN II part of the weekend though.
                                          denny

It seems that quite a few big name European basketball stars are not
going to attend this version of the Goodwill games. Missing, supposedly,
include:

Saruna Marciulionis and Arvida Sabonis will not play for USSR.

Vlade Divac and Drazen Petrovich, both NBA players, will not play for
Yugoslavia.

Toni Kukoc, who was drafted by Chicago, will play and will supposedly
turn down the Bulls and continue to play in Europe for the next couple of
years.

TTom

    Melvin Stewart of Charlotte won the 200 meter butterfly the other night
    and set the American record.  He's closing in on the world record held
    by E. German Michael Gross (aka The Albatross).
    
    Yesterday, something very unusual happened in the 400 Individual Medly. 
    Dave Wharton (USC), the American record holder in the event, and E.
    German Patrick Kuehl both touched in at 4:17.74.  Double gold.  I've
    never seen a tie race in anything longer than 100 yards.
    
    	--dan'l

    	Larry King seems out of his element as the host.
    
    	Scott

    
    
    	Actually, I like Larry King as host.  I think he is doing a
    great job.  Of course, I like Larry King anyway on CNN, so putting
    him in the control seat is O.K. with me.  And, since he is not the
    sportscaster "typo", I think the average viewer is treated to more
    rounded type telecast.
    
    re: cable companies
    
    	The cable company here in Springfield Mass does not carry TBS
    either (does carry CNN and TNT), but they are carrying the Goodwill
    feed on one of their "bulletinboard" channels.  So, we don't get
    the whole TBS schedule, but we do get the Goodwill games when it
    goes live.  So, there is really no excuse (at least not a good one)
    for a cable company to not show it.  
    
    re: general
    
    	As for the games themselves, remember that this is only the
    2nd edition and most countries don't know the value of these games
    yet.  Granted, there are some big names missing, but there are plenty
    of world class athletes around to make the games interesting.  At
    least it's better than watching re-runs or watching the Red Sox
    ground into another DP!!
    
    
    							bill..g.
    

    I'll try to give a perspective from Seattle.
    
    The games have been hyped beyond belief here for the last 8-10 months,
    at least.  The ticket situation was a fiasco and severely pissed off
    almost everyone who ordered tickets.  First, they said you could get
    brochures to order tickets at any US Bank or Ernst Hardware.  You
    could never find them there.  I finally got a copy of one that someone
    had lucked into getting.  I ordered tickets for about 5 events.  The
    brochure said there were plenty left for all events I ordered.  About
    4 months later, I got 2 of the 5 events I had asked for.  The service
    charge was $1.75/ticket.  They sent a letter saying I only got the two,
    but didn't include the tickets or say when they'd be on the way.  
    About a month later the tickets arrived.  Now, they are trying
    desperately to sell tickets to all events, including ones I was denied
    in the first place.  It seems that they held out big blocks of tickets
    for tours that never materialized.  Well, as far as I'm concerned, they
    can stick them.  I would have taken them before, but not now.  
    
    I have also heard stories from people who volunteered to help out at
    the events.  They all say that it has been an extremely unpleasant
    experience.  One guy wanted to work at a sporting event.  He finally
    got called two weeks before the games. They wanted him to lead tours
    for an art show!  He declined.
    
    I think the games can be successful, but the way they were oversold
    locally led to alot of disillusionment amongst the locals, me included.
    You couldn't turn on the TV or read a paper for months without some
    breathless article on how Seattle was going to be the focus of the
    world, or some such sappy crap.  Alot of people had to chuckle when
    polls came out showing that the vast majority of Americans had no
    idea what the Goodwill Games were.
    
    It's also funny to see Steve Largent as the local tour guide on TBS.
    He didn't live in Seattle.  He lived in Tulsa while he played here.  
    He did a good job the time I saw him, though.
    
    I'm going to see track and field tonight and the basketball semis on
    Friday.  
    
    The weather has been phenomenal for the games so far.  It has been a
    little on the hot side, hitting 94 on Saturday.  Today, it's only in
    the 60s and cloudy, but it's supposed to clear up again beginning
    tomorrow.  I hope too many people aren't watching.  They are making
    Seattle look great on TV.  We already have near-gridlock on the 
    freeways.
    
    
    Pete

    Regarding .8
    
    The Largent family lived in the Seattle area during from July to 
    January.  Then they lived in Tulsa.
                        
    

    A&W,
    
    I DID call and complain on Sunday night and was told that "Management
    has been getting a lot of calls about this and they'll probably
    meet on Monday."....
    
    So with great antipation, I waited for tonight....
    
    8:00 the commercials are touting the games.... stay tuned, etc,
    etc.
    
    8:05 - " I was a mailorder bride" with Valeria Bertinelli begins.
     Now Valerie is a real doll but I really didn't wanna oogle her,
    I WANNA SEE THE GAMES!!!!!
    
    So I called the cable company (again) and wanted to know why the
    games weren't on, what could be done, etc, etc. I was politely told
    by the unfortunate woman answering the phone that Greater Media
    *elected* not to show the games, something about their contract
    didn't require their participation.  She *then* said I'd have to
    wait until next year because the decision couldn't be reversed!
    She was sort of suprised when I told her it wouldn't be on again
    for 4 years!
    
    I wanna complain even though it's like spitting in the wind or freezing
    water in Alaska during December.  I was given the name of some jerk
    at Greater Media to write to.  Any Noter who would like to help
    barrage (sp?) the Company can write to:
    
    	Ed Goldstein
    	Greater Media Cable
    	95 Higgins Street
    	Worcester, Ma.  01606
    
    That *sshole probably thinks Soccer is a manly sport too!  ;^)
    
    Wish I knew where he lives..........
    
    If any kind hearted soul has a couple of extra VCR tapes (hint,
    hint) I'm especially interested in the T&F and Basketball games.
    
    Thanks in advance?
    
    KaJ
    

       C-SPAN II had the games on again lasted night.
                                           Denny

    Thanks to Kenny Anderson, the USA pulled out a very tough win last
    night against Puerto Rico.  With the game very much on the line Kenny 
    hit a jumper and then iced the game with a 3 point play the next time
    down.
    
    Alonzo Mourning got tossed in the 1st half (along with some other
    Puerto Rican player).  Ramon Rivas through a real nice cheap shot punch
    that didn't land, yet didn't get thrown out.  Nice one, bub.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

       Carl Lewis got beat in the 100 too. Didn't catch the name of the
    winner though.
                                          Denny

    I Believe it was Burwell...

Kenny Anderson was also largely responsible for the U.S. being in
a close game in the final minute.  The U.S. had a 10-point lead when
Anderson and his teammates got real sloppy and let P. Rico get back
into it.  Anderson has a bundle of talent, but he played last night's
game as if it were a pickup game.  The real hero of the game was Billy
Owens who put on a clinic down in the low post.  This guy is smooth.

BTW, anyone else think it's a bad omen that Jim Boeheim is an assitant
coach on this squad.  With Jimbo on hand, this team is sure to under-
achieve.

Laker_Ken

I agree with Owens winning the game. Anderson, when he thinks about what
he's doing, is almost unstoppable.

Terrible mini-cameo by Hurley: in the closing seconds of the first half,
he fouled the Puerto Rican for a 3 point play and then coughed it up to
them on the way up the court for a layup. A cool 5 points for the other
guy in about as many seconds.

I also like Gatling, from ODU, last night and was really impressed with
Clarence Weatherspoon's High Rise act. He has some serious springs in his
legs.

Lucky for everyone, Jimbo did little coaching last night. He mostly sat
on the bench and gave us that look, you know, that look. Speaking of
Coaching, K gets a special nod for keeping it close. At one point in the
middle of the 2nd half, the US was starting to pull away and bingo we get
a new lineup. Maybe he was getting ready for the Ruskies.

TTom

    There were about 29,000 at Husky Stadium for Track and Field last
    night.  The best race of the day was a photo finish between Roger
    Kingdom (spelled KINGDOME for awhile on the scoreboard) and ???
    in the 110 hurdles.  Both thought they won and took a victory lap.
    Kingdom was the winner when they got the film back from Photolab.
    
    My favorite part was watching Vicki Borsheim, a local high-jumper.
    She wasn't expected to do well, but she came in 5th.  The crowd
    was really pulling for her.  I first saw her at my sister's graduation
    from the University of Washington Dept. of Physical Therapy.  Vicki
    was in her class.  Geez, she's a babe.  Intelligent, beautiful,
    athletic.  Too bad I'm married or I would have asked my sister to
    fix me up.  Did they show the women's high jump on TV?  
    
    Pete

    Justed read in the HOCKEY conference that Segei Federov defected from
    Russia last night during the games last night.  Does anyone have any
    info??????
    
    Federov was a 2nd round Detroit pick 2 years ago.....looks like the
    Wings are gonna get him sooner than they thought was possible!
    
    Wheel

    
    re. -1
    
    Federov did not defect.  He flew to Detroit to discuss contract terms.
    He signed a 5 year deal worth $250,000 per year.  Now he has to get
    permission from the Russian hockey federation to play.  From what I
    understand they are not to happy with him.  They would like him
    available for the '92 Olympic games.
    
    /pjb

    
    
    	Not only that, but the NHL is coming out of this with a black
    eye.  In this new age of "goodwill", why (some would ask) would
    a soviet want/have to defect?  The Soviets are saying that the NHL
    stole the kid and the NHL is stating that they are not pleased with
    the actions of Detroit.
    
    	In another downer, the USA got spanked (again) by the Soviets
    who were minus 3 of their best players (currently playing in the
    NBA, except for Sabonis).  This current edition of diaper dippers
    is incredibly inept.  After just barely beating Puerto Rico in the
    opener, they looked horrible in losing to the Soviets.  Once again,
    the US has no one who can shoot the ball from beyone 2 feet.  For
    all the talk about how the 3 pointer is to close and all these guys
    are such great shooters, I have to ask, where are they?  Why can't
    we get a couple of those great shooters on the squad, or is it just
    a myth that we have great shooters?
    
    	It's becoming more aparent that the rest of the world has caught
    up to the US (in part) in the basketball department.  While we are
    still amazed at all the great paint play (here in the US), the rest
    of the world has developed some fantastic shooters who just don't
    miss.  One of the games most important fundamentals has been put
    on the back burner in the name of the slam-dunk contest.  What few
    fail to realize is that that in-yo-face-slam is only worth 2 points
    and that "gimmie" from 3 point land is worth 3 points.
    
    	Also, it is clear that we cannot continue to send 18-19 year
    old all-star teams to compete with 25-30 year old established teams.
    
    	Tonight we play the I-talians and could very well loose again.
    And to make matters worse, the best team in the whole games isn't even 
    in our bracket!
    
    							bill..g.
    

    re: bill..g.
    
    Agree 100% with your shooting observation.  Mayberry (and a host of
    others) literally shot us out of the game last night.  Horrendous
    perimeter shooting.
    
    The 3 point shot has really changed the game, and I don't think most
    people in the USA have caught on.  For example, it's long been assumed
    that you win by going inside.  Commentators stuff this lie down our
    throats, yet look around.  The Detroit Pistons are 2-time NBA champs
    because of their guards.  Georgia Tech made it to the Final 4 with
    practically no inside game, and while UNLV had outstanding inside
    talent, it was their guard (Hunt) who was the tourney MVP, mainly
    because of his 3-point shooting prowess.  The Soviets inside game wasn't 
    exactly setting the court on fire last night - yet their shooters
    simply do NOT miss an open outside shot.
    
    In sum, it simply seems to me you've gotta have good, consistent
    outside shooters to win at ANY level where they're using the 3-point
    play.  
    
    For what it's worth, I don't necessarily hold Coach K to blame for our
    lack of outside punch.  There are guys on the team who traditionally
    can knock that shot down.  (Mayberry in particular.)  But last night it
    simply wasn't to be.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    From what I saw (which was only the final few minutes), there was a
    definite lack of leadership on the court.  No matter who K put in, it
    seemed like five guys playing street ball.  
    
    IMHO
    
    	--dan'l

Having watched the team look absolutely terrible against P. Rico 
the night before, I wasn't at all surprised that they got their
tails kicked by the Soviets last night.

Agree with the previous comments about the lack of outside shooting.
However, what was even more embarrassing was the ease with which the
Soviet guards repeatedly blew by the U.S. defenders in the half-court
offense.  If the U.S. team played solid defense, they might have won,
regardless of their ineptitude to knock down the trey.

Christian Laetner has so far played like a dog.  One of the guys on
the Soviet team -- Titkenenko (or something like that)  is ugly enough
to be on the Celtics.

Laker_Ken

    
re .22
        
>    For what it's worth, I don't necessarily hold Coach K to blame for our
>    lack of outside punch.
    
    It ain't worth much Chris. You and others crucified Thompson for the
    same thing. Now that it one of your ACC boys (and a geeky one at that)
    coaching, "we can't hold him to blame" ......
    
    Yeah right - HAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!
    
    DrM

    
    
    	Well, the USA avoided another loss and buried the I-talians.
    I'm not impressed though.  Next up is Brazil.  I wonder if Oscar
    is playing for Brazil?
    
    	As for coach K, I agree with Brooks.  Coach K had a good talent
    pool to pick from and once again, we end up with a lot of politics
    instead of picking the best available.  Duke has two people on the
    team and clearly shouldn't have any.  Of course, this all started
    a long time ago and seems to be pretty much the norm.  Maybe if
    they used a committee or picked the team a year early (so that they
    could get more playing time together) that would help.  But it really
    is a joke to see coach x pick players that he is currently coaching,
    who clearly don't belong.  This is not a developmental squad IMO!
    
    	If the team does not produce, you have to look at the coaches.
    They ran Thompson through the ringer, and "k" should be no different.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    
    Who won the long jump?
    
    
    
    Steve

    
    RE. -1
    
    Carl Lewis on his last jump.
    
    

    Anybody who thinks we lost to the Soviets 'cause Coach K kept Laettner
    and Hurley on the team has their head buried in the sand.  For the
    record, I can't stand Coach K.  He's a nerd, a twit, a BobbyKnight
    disciple, a whiner, etc, etc.  But he's also a pretty decent
    coach who's taken his to 4/5 Final 4's, which a pretty impressive feat
    in this day-and-age of parity.  Laettner is a solid player who's
    playing like dog-meat.  I wouldn't say he's underserving of being on
    the team though.  (Seem to remember a Gougetown game a year or so ago
    where he totally outplayed Mourning.)  Hurley is definitely one of
    those "take your own point guard" type moves, which has advantages
    which have been previously discussed.  Unfortunately though, he's
    looked fairly horrid out there as well.  :^(
    
    The fact is DocZero, your SWC buddy Mayberry shot us out of the game 
    against the USSR.  Horrible from outside.  That and the fact that the
    Soviets couldn't miss (partly the fault of some lousy defense on our
    part) led to the "L".
    
    It's not over yet though.  If we can play with the same intensity as
    last night I'd say we could easily bring home the gold.  In fact, I'll
    go out on a limb and predict it.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    The fact is DocZero, your SWC buddy Mayberry shot us out of the game 
>    against the USSR.  Horrible from outside.  That and the fact that the
>    Soviets couldn't miss (partly the fault of some lousy defense on our
>    part) led to the "L".
 
   While K doesn't have all the time in the world to teach these kids 
   defense, they certainly have beened schooled well enough to know
   how by now. If the coach can't motivate the guys he has on the floor
   to play defense he can certainly sit their butts down and put someone
   else out there who can. K's to blame.

   Also given you can't find fault with ole Deanho it's easily understandable
   why you can't with K. His 4 out 5 has more to do with having excellent
   players and the sweet draws they've received in the NCAA's than his
   ability.

   I will agree with you though that Laettner belongs on the team but Hurley
   looks like a lebo clone to me....

 mike

    > K's to blame
    
    And if we win the Gold, then I assume "K's to credit"?  
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

If K wins the gold he gets the credit. Sure, how else would it work?

Right now, K gets the discredit for not preparing his team for play with
these international teams. He has fielded a decent college-all-star-type
team and has spent a lot of time working on defense. When it comes to
offense, it looks like they don't even have plays, much less practice
them.

For the Laettner detractors, he showed some good hustle last night
against Italy, which the US beat easy. He pounded the boards and made a
couple of very good saves of balls going out of boundds.

For the Hurley detractors, he looked slow and confused. He's continuing
with his late first half lapses, insisting on turning the ball over on
the last possession of the half.

TTom

    Re hoops, haven't read through all the notes, but as I said after
    the Olympics, the USA cannot simply throw a bunch of kids together
    anymore and whip the world in hoops.  As I said, I haven't read
    the notes, but has MrT, ACCrisp and the rest been lighting the cross,
    tying the knot, and getting ready to hang Coach K from the nearest
    tree as they were for John Thompson, or is this excellent loss
    different (I realize the Goodwill games pale in comparison to the
    Olympics, stature wise, but it's close enough). 
    
    Hoops isn't the only sport that the USA used to dominate simply
    by showing up.  Other sports have suffered the same fate.  Track
    and Field is a prime example.  By merely showing up, the US used
    to be guarenteed golds in all the sprints, the relays, the decathlon,
    the pole vault, the long jump, the shot, the discus and were competive
    in everything else.  This is no longer true.
    
    Anyway, I've been to the games track and field comp at the stadium,
    and except for a ton of unknowledgeable fans, it's been a pretty
    good competition.  The 10K was great last night, as was the women's
    1500M and the men's long jump.   The decathalon was a great 2-day
    battle between Johnson and O'brien.   
    
    Track and field ends tonight with the relays being the featured
    events.
    
    FWIW, Carl Lewis won the long jump last night with a leap of 8.38
    meters.  It was his 64th straight victory in the long jump.
    
    JD

 Sorry Chris but no obstucating on my part if they win he certainly deserves
 credit for doing a good job. Given his track record thought, I don't see
 this happening.

 mike

    What was the final score of the USA-USSR game in baseball
    last night, looked like a whippin' was given to the ruskies.
    
    Andy
    

    	The game was called on some kinda "mercy rule," or
    	something like that. If one team is more than 10
    	runs ahead of another team, the games over.
    
    	Scott

    The track and field portion of the games ended last night with a
    bang.   Very good races and jumping events.   The relays were all
    pretty close, with the most exciting being the 4x100 relays.  In
    the mens' final, Mitchell of the USA ran down the Cuban anchor leg
    after getting the baton about 5 meters behind.   After the race,
    Mitchell went nuts, but the Cubans thought they won, and started
    a victory lap.  While the Cubans were taking the lap, the official
    replay was shown on the big screen, showing that Mitchell had indeed
    outleaned the Cuban at the tape.  The US team then went for the
    well deserved victory lap.
    
    In the womens' 4x100, it was close at the anchor leg, but Evelyn
    Ashford, the best women sprinter ever in the US, IMO, blew away
    the Russian anchor.
    
    In the Mens' 4x400, Tim Simon ran a 44.4 anchor to secure the victory.
    
    Overall, a great night of competition, and a great track and field
    crowd.  Really knowledgeable, no Carl Lewis groupies, and a crowd
    the athletes obviously appreciated.  
    
    JD

    	JD,
    
    	Did it look like Simons' shoes were untied by the time he
    	finished his leg? I'd swear I saw a lot of shoestring
    	flapping in the breeze.
    
    	Scott

    Scott,
    
    I didn't really notice.  The unofficial splits were 46.0, 44.6,
    44.6, 44.4 - and this wasn't the USA's best team.   In both men's
    relays, the lead leg didnt' run that well.   I thought Pettigrew
    in the 4x400, running the 3rd leg was the key.  He opened it up
    and buried the 3rd place team, Cuba - which was important, since
    Ramon Hernandez was anchoring.
    
    JD

    There was a 4-6 liner in that esteemed example of journalistic
    excellence, the Worcester Telegram yesterday which stated that this
    Sunday a track meet is being held in NYC and it's called the New
    York Games (I think).
    
    Anyway, Fred Lebow, meet director stated that they are offering
    a $50,000 bonus if the 4x100 world record is broken.  I didn't get
    the names of the entire team but Burwell and Carl Lewis are on it.
    
    As a trivial note, Lewis was on the Olympic gold medal world record
    setting team in '88.
    
    KoT (Kev on Track)
    

    Kevin,
    
    Yep, the New York Games are this week.  In fact, originally,l Lewis
    and his Santa Monica TC mates had said they were going to go for
    the world record at the Goodwill Games.  Lots of excitement was
    built.  Then Lebow and company said we'll give ya a big bonus if
    you do it at our meet.  So the Goodweill Games had the B team in
    the 4x100 - and they won and provided an exciting race.
    
    Also, Kev, the USA team that ran the WR was at the 1984 Olympics,
    when Lewis ran what is considered the greatest relay leg inhistory,
    and the fastest anchor in histroy.  If memory serves me right, he
    ran like 9.4 for the last 100 meters.  Carl's worst part of sprinting
    is his start, so the relay is suited for him perfectly.  Lewis and
    mates believe then can run in the low 37's, the current world and
    american record is 37.83.  
    
    The New York games should provice some great performances, but I
    doubt they will be on TV, unless one of the smaller cable outfits
    picks it up.
    
    JD

    Thanks for the facts Sarge!
    
    Please however, excuse me from the part of "..most people believe...".
    It might be FrankWa's 'shrooms having an effect on me but for 30+
    years I've believed that Bob Hayes ran a 7.8 (!!!) 100 in the Rome
    Games. ('course it was probably hand timed and Lawdy only knows
    if they clocked only after he got the stick, or when he was crossing
    the passing zone or whatever).  Lewis is, without a doubt, a fantastic
    runner but in my mind, Bob Hayes is the all-time fastest human.
    
    (Besides, he also played the manly game of football.  Will Carl?)
    
    Hey 'Saw, why doncha call your buddies at ESPN and make sure that
    they have a camera crew at the meet?  They could show highlights
    of the meet on "highlights"!
    
    JD, is the meet being held at Randall's Island?
    
    Anyway, Thanks for the shlep
    
    KoT
    

    kev,
    
    I forgot about Hayes' leg.  Also, I think I made a mistake and Lewis'
    split was around 8.4....
    
    Anyway, they are both fast dudes.
    
    JD

    re .33
    
    Agreed with you 100% JD. I was pointing out in the name of fairness,
    that Coach (Unspecial) K should get the same roasting that JT got. 
    
    In fact, if the US should bite the big one with either/both an ACC or
    Big 10 coach, you can expect MrT(oodles), Cyst, et al to come around to
    your point of view.
    
    The facts are, that the rest of the world is catching up to the U.S. in
    a hurry, and raw talent isn't going to cut anymore. Lots of prep and
    coheision are gonna be needed.
    
    DrM 

    re .43
    
    I heard that Bob Hayes ran a 8.2-8.3 in the Rome games ....
    
    Any way you cut it - un-------believable ....

    Anyone know when the hockey competion begins? Or has it all ready?
    News paper coverage is terrible!

    U.S. Men's Basketball takes home another silver as they lose to
    Yugoslavia in the final.

   1) I was alternating my attention yesterday (at a SPORTS BAR), between
   a White Sox game, a Red Sox game, and Boxing in the Goodwill games.
   Some good matches, U.S. looked strong. [Also had a conversation about
   gunsmithing, but they let me stay, anyway.]

   2) Then women's floor exercises came on. They have competition using
   hula hoops, then one using a rubber ball, then one using a stick with a
   ribbon on it. It looked pretty silly. Does anyone have a list of what
   all the competitions are? I get the feeling there must be some strange
   ones... maybe I WASN'T kidding when I talked about Synchronized Jello
   Moulding!

   3) White Sox - Brewer's game was a good one, finally rain delayed in
   the eleventh inning @  6 - 6. Anybody hear what happened? Final score?
   Did it resume, or was it delayed? If delayed...`til when?

   Thanks
   Mike JN

    	The competition with the ball, stick and hula hoop is called
    	rhythmic gymnastics.
    
    	I think it's silly, too. 'Course, I think any sport is
    	silly where you let a bunch of judges decide how well you
    	did.
    
    	On another note...
    
    	What about the move by the Russians to get Svetlana Boganskaya
    	back in the all round? It seems that, while on the uneven
    	parallel bars, she fell. This more or less removed any chance
    	for her to win a medal in the all around.
    
    	Surprise! Friday evening, one of the other soviet gymnasts
    	comes up lame (just like the excuse). The rules allow an
    	injured gymnast to be replaced. Guess what?!?! The injured
    	gymnast is replaced by Boganskaya.
    
    	I have to assume that the replacement either starts out with
    	no score or starts with the score of the person she replaced.
    
    	Scott

    On Boganskaya.  Personal opinion, I doubt if the displaced girl was
    truly hurt.  I believe that Boganskaya carried in the score which she
    had from the team competition, not someone else's.  Could be a part of
    why she wound up 2nd, instead of 1st, in the individual all-around.
    
    Does anyone understand the scoring that was used?  I've never before
    seen gymnastics go to 3 decimal places.  New rule?
    
    Finally, maybe this belongs in a note of its own, but this has been
    bugging me for a while now.  Why, why, why has "women's" gymnastics
    become "girl's" gymnastics?  My heart aches for these kids, because I
    firmly believe that we are asking too much of children too young to
    have them competing on this level.  Basically, none of these girls live
    at home, and many of them haven't for years.  The maturity needed to
    deal graciously with the press, to say nothing of the competitive
    pressure, is unbelievable.  (Those last two may be inverted.)  The risk
    of injury in a growing body concerns me.  The psychological damage of
    having puberty be career-ending - puberty is bad enough without that! 
    Tennis has faced some of the same problems, and I have some of the same
    concerns.
    
    We know so little of what happens to these girls once they stop
    competing.  Of those I do know about, the picture doesn't seem real
    pretty.  Any thoughts, anybody?
    
    A&W   

Discouraging (not to mention just plain awful) loss to Yugoslavia in 
the Goodwill Games finals.  Here are some random observations by yours
truly:

o As discussed earlier, our lack of shooting ability has been and continues
  to be a glaring achilles heel of amatuer USA hoop teams.  We were 3/23
  from 3-point range the first 3 games of the tourney, then improved
  slightly the next 2 games, and then returned to form against Yugoslavia.
  Billy Owens late 3-pointer is the only one I can remember in the whole
  game.  Again, as discussed earlier, when you're playing with the 3
  point play and you can't make 'em, you're at a disadvantage.

o The disadvantage stated above gets even worse when you stuff the ball
  inside all game to try and get fouled and then can't make your free
  throws.  In a nutshell, we lost last nights game cause we absolutely
  STUNK at the charity stripe.  Hard to believe the best amatuer players
  in the whole darn country can't make a 15 footer with nobody on them
  (and you don't shoot 'til you're ready).

o Based on points 1 and 2 above, I'm not ready to hang Coach K yet, although
  the albatross around his neck is firmly in place.  We'll see how this
  team has developed in the World Games (or whatever they're called).
  Still can't believe a team as talented as ours can shoot the ball
  so badly.  Ugh.

o TBS had the MOST annoying habit of showing replays which resulted in
  missing a good deal of the live action.  Inexcusable.

o Give credit to Yugoslavia.  They've got some players, no question.

o Nice cheap shot in the 2nd half by Day, who went head hunting after
  some poor Yugoslav.  Embarassing.  

o In true Coach K fashion, here's a grade of some of our players:

Mourning		A- (monster player with questionable shot selection)
Owens			B+ (disapeared at times, but what a talent)
Day			B- (played some good D)
Mayberry		D  (shooter who couldn't shoot)
Laettner		D  (lousy tournament, plain and simple)
Hurley			D- (  "      "          "    "    "   )
Smith (Missouri)	B  (solid player who'll be a solid pro)
Smith (UConn)		C  (had one nice shooting streak; otherwise zip)
Anderson		B  (couldn't lead us to the gold)
Coach K			C  (the twerp couldn't bring home the gold. Nuf said)


- ACC Chris
    

    
    RE.  question about the Chisox Brewers game.  Brewers to 3 in the
    11th to take the lead 9-6.  Sox come back in the bottom of the 11th
    with 2.  Brewers win 9 - 8.
    
    /pjb

    So ACCrisp,
    
    How come Coach K gets such nice treatment?  You were ready to tar
    and feather John Thompson.
    
    And when think about the Olympics, since the 72 debacle in Munich,
    the USA and USSR have only competed, at the same time, in two Olympics,
    1976 and 1988, since in 80 we boycotted, and in 84 they boycotted.
    The game has changed world-wide since 72, and the USA continues
    to believe it can win team events by throwing squads together for
    a few weeks and going in and flexing their muscles.  Sorry folks,
    it ain't gonna work.   We need to form national teams that pay/support
    players.  I know we won't get the cream of the crop, they will go
    to the pros, but I still think we'd be able to field a damn good
    team....
    
    JD

    > How come Coach K gets such nice treatment?
    
    I wouldn't call a "C" grade "nice treatment".  On the other hand I
    can't see blaming him for a loss that was largely the responsibility of
    All-Americans (who he didn't coach) who couldn't hit a dang-blammed
    free throw.  (Not to mention supposedly good outside shooters who
    couldn't hit diddily-squat.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I knew the U.S. was in trouble last night when I saw Boeheim on the
bench.   

Tell us again what positive effect Bobby Hurley had on the team... 

Just got back from Seattle and managed to catch one event while I was out there.

TEAM HANDBALL...quite an interesting little game it is. We went in (tickets were
a whopping $5) and sat down..after 2 minutes the wife and I decided we'd better
go see if we can get a program somewhere. Luckily they were distributing the rules
free. 

It's a game a lot like indoor soccer,hockey and lacrosse combined. The brochure 
said it's the second most populat sport in the world. USA lost in the semi finals
to Yugoslavia and the Russians beat Spain in the other semi finals....

To simplify the game...you have 7 men a side and the object is to throw a size 4
soccer ball (about the side of nerf basket ball) into a goal...The goal is 
surrounded by a crease that players can only enter if they are airborn...

You can only hold the ball 3 seconds, take 3 steps with it or dribble it like a
basketball.

It is quite a high scoring game with the goalies only making saves on 1/3rd of
the shots. Players have different positions based mostly on body size..tall 
players make shots over the opposition,shorter players make airborn shots from 
the corners and husky players set picks in the goal area...

The soviets had one guy (I called him the designated Mutant)who was about 6'9"
who only came in on offense and must have scored 15 goals (they scored 29 vs
Spain) by running a pick play in which he jumped up and hummed a shot past the
goalie..then he would go to the bench and wait till they got the ball again...

All-in-all a pretty interesting evening....


MEtz
 

    > It would have gone differently if Bob was in charge
    
    Possible, but heck, Coach K is a Knight disciple ain't he?
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    I love the typical "If Bob was in charge... " line.  When did his
    holines last coach the team, was in 1984, when the Russians boycotted,
    and when even Jim Boeheim couldn't have lost with the team that
    was there (Ewing, Mullin, etc...)..  Or was it 1976, way back in
    the dark ages when the rest of the world was still far, far away
    from our level....
    
    Chris, you sure are cutting Coach K slack.  Poor shooting also hampered
    John Thompson's Olympic squad, and the loss to injury of top scored
    Hersey Hawkins prior to the Russian game largely goes unnoticed
    by the I Hate John Thompson jihad.
    
    JD
    
    

    So why wasn't The General in charge of this Goodwill squad ???
    
    What is it ???  One shot in 1984 and out ???   If Knight is so great,
    why wasn't he coaching the 1987 Pan Am team, the 1988 Olympic team, and
    this Goodwill team ???
    
    Could it be perhaps that the powers-that-be don't want to have to
    explain another chair toss or back alley brawl or mid-game pullout or
    pounded telephone or ...
    
    Hmmm ???
    
    Bob Hunt

    Actually Bob I believe the way things work (not sure whether it's
    official or not) is that once you've coached an Olympic team, that's
    it.  Time to move over and let somebody else have a chance.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    IN Tuesday's results:
    
    USA took bronze in baseball by beating Canada 10-4 (US was pounded
    earlier this week by Cuba, 16-2....)
    
    USA beat the USSR 3 game sto 2 in a very exciting volleyball match.
    A great comeback in game 2 turned momentum - US was down 13-4 but
    came back with 11 straight points to win 15-13.
    
    US women's hoop team beat the South Korean's 94-70.
    
    JD

    
    
    U.S. women's basketball team beat the Soviets last night.  I watched
    the first half and the U.S. team was down by as many as 12 points.
    Must have been an exciting comeback in the second half.
    

    	This is a little off the topic, but what the heck did
    	the blonde soviet BB player have on her lip? Was it
    	a cut or was it something like a birthmark? I only
    	saw the last minute or two, and couldn't figure it
    	out.
    
    	I know, who cares?
    
    	Scott

    
    -1
    
    It was something stuck there from kissing Neil Bush.
    
    Dickster
    

    	I hadta ask, didn't I?

    And I'm damn glad you did!

    The only events of the Goodwill Games that I watched were the last few
    games of the US/USSR Men's Volleyball the other night.  I probably
    won't watch any others, and I didn't turn on the TV that night to watch
    this one.  
    
    Sort of a shame isn't it?  Why do the Olympic games generate so much
    interest and excitement, and the Goodwill games, which are essentially
    the same thing, almost none at all?
    
    Dan

    One reason for the difference in interest may be in how long the games
    have been running.  This is only the 2nd time the Goodwill Games have
    been held.  The modern Olympics started in 1896, and I believe they
    have only missed being held once - during the height of WWII.
    
    A second reason for the difference may be in the selection of atheletes
    and countries represented.  The Goodwill Games is an invitational, with
    only the top athletes in each sport invited.  Only the US and the USSR
    are represented in every event.  The Olympics allow any member country
    to send a pre-determined number of athletes for each event, regardless
    of their skill level.  (Remember the Jamaican bobsled team?  Or Eddie
    the Eagle?  Or the down-hill skier from, I believe, Costa Rica, who
    basically did a snowplow down the course?  Not stylish, not
    competitive, but he finished on what was clearly the most difficult
    slope he had ever attempted.)
    
    My personal third reason is that fewer events are competed in the
    Goodwill Games.  That may be a plus to some folks.
    
    It's going to be interesting to see how this effort pans out in the
    future.  Personally, I wish it well.  The more venues there are for
    meeting people from other cultures for a common purpose, the better off
    we all are.
    
    A&W

    Sorry about being late on this but I thought I'd give my 2 cents about
    international basketball.
    
    Point #1 is, like many of you have said, the rest of the world has
    improved.
    
    #2 has to deal with the lack of outside shooting. To me, it is direct
    result of the physical shape of the lane - the trapezoid. This style,
    which is used all over Europe, lends itself more to an outside game. It
    promotes shooting accuracy as a necessity for playing the game. US
    hoops has the old rectangle lane which screams for low post work and
    rewards those who excel at it.
    
    Other countries have learned how to block our big guys out down low
    and, essentially, reducing their strong inside game power. Since the
    inside game, or running game, is big in our colleges, it stands to
    reason that the outside shot is NOT a high priority. So, the kids come
    into these world class events essentially on an alien court.
    
    I blame every US coach who works with college athletes on the world
    level for NOT aggresively going after the shooters FIRST. But, no, they
    grab the J.R. Reids and Alonzo Mournings who, to their credit, are
    great inside threats but who tend to stink the joint out when
    confronted with the trapezoid.
    
    Coach K, Coach Thompson....both failed to grasp this fact right at the
    beginning - when they were recruiting for the team. Add to this fact
    that few college teams have OUTSTANDING 3 point artists because it
    isn't stressed that much and you have a recipe for disaster.
    
    Rich
    

Lord knows I'm not an expert, but I kind of have to agree with
what one of our local sportscasters said.

We send out best amatures to the games.  The rest of the countries
are sending what amounts to their version of the NBA.  While not
as good as our NBA, they are a match for our college teams.

It will be very interesting to see what will happen when our
Magics, Jordans and Birds (among others) go up against international
competition....

I also agree with what Rich said....makes sense to me...

'Saw

    If the US only sends amateur BB players to the World and the Olympics
    how come these players ask for more money than the NBA veterans?:):):)
    
    Just needling.

>    If the US only sends amateur BB players to the World and the Olympics
>    how come these players ask for more money than the NBA veterans?:):):)
>    
>    Just needling.

Not sure of what you mean.....

Explain it, and I'll try to needle you back 8^)

'Saw

    Re: Many back
    
    I read while I was on vacation about a proposal to have two levels
    of female gymnastics.  One would be a "girls division", for the
    age level that seems to be competing now, with the premium being
    placed on athleticism.  The other would be a "womens division",
    for the girls to move up to when they get old enough (ie, around
    20 or so), where the premium moving from athleticism to grace and
    beauty.  The 20-year-olds can't compete with the kids and should
    be judged differently, so the two divisions.
    
    John

Reported this morning:

It has been decided that there -will- be another Goodwill Games.

-Andy

    That's right.  The next Goodwill Games will be held in Russia.  ABC may
    even televise some of the weekend events.

    Ted Turner is a joke as a human being.  I hope he loses another $44
    million on the next games, declares bankrupcy, gets his CNN building
    bombed by a terrorist, has Jane Fonda dump him, and gets mugged by a
    Jerry Falwell right-wing religious fanatic.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris,
    
    Without Ted Turner, Atlanta would not be a rising star city, as
    it is now.  Yeah, he's not the only reason the city rebounded, but
    he's one of the biggest reasons.  Yep he's brash, willing to take
    a risk, and take a loss to make something work - something all to
    few US Businessmen are willing to do in this day and age.  
    
    What did poor ol Ted do to you - not like Dean Smith?  Have a 
    <gasp> 'liberal' view on something?  Speak his mind in this supposedly
    "land of the free" that we live in?   
    
    Turner is a visionary - another trait not prevelant in our country.
    
    And you know what Chriss - Ted Turner is far from perfect.  ANother
    amazing trait to have....
    
    JD

    Yup, Ted's a visionary all right.  He's invisioned how to consistently
    put out the worst baseball product in the major leagues, despite a
    cable TV contract that would make everyone this side of the Yankees
    jealous.  He's managed to lose more money ($44 million) on a poor-mans
    Olympics that (apparently) no one wants than 99% of the population will
    ever make in a lifetime.  He's managed to make an utter fool of himself 
    on numerous occasions.  (From the 1977 Americas Cup when he offended just 
    about everybody to his latest incident where he called Christianity a 
    'Religion for Losers'.)  Don't forget about the mediocre Hawks either.
    
    Ted inherited his money from his dad and has financed himself to the hilt
    ala Donald Trump.  His girlfriend's a former (some would even say
    present) national disgrace.  He's had absolutely nothing (ZERO) to do
    with the Olympics.  In fact the AOC made it clear to everyone that he
    wasn't involved, cause if he was I can assure you the Olympics would
    not be coming to Atlanta.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Jane is a national treasure if you ask me. A lot of people besides Jane
 were against the war including yours truly...Atleast Turner ain't wimp
 like the geek in office or Deano who lets his players dish out the punishment.

 mike

>    Ted inherited his money from his dad and has financed himself to the hilt
>    ala Donald Trump.

Where'd you get an idea like that?  You make it sound as if inherited big 
buckaroos when his father died.  Ted took the local billboard company his 
father owned before commiting suicide (which, btw, wasn't doing that well
at the time) and built it into a communications empire.  Not many people 
could have done the things this man has done, with or without that kind 
of start.

-Andy

    Me, embarassed?  Naw.  I just hate Ted Turner that's all.
    
    And why you guys always bringin' Dean into all my notes.  I ain't no
    1-dimensional noter.  :^(
    
    
    - Sports_Fan Chris

Andy,

Poor ACChris has his hands full over in 25. He's obviously a man under a
lot of stress with an acute need to lash out at others and public
figures.

TTom

    Ah yes the Braves.  Ol Ted has made some bonehaid moves - but what
    were the Braves before him?  I know they won the west in 1969, only
    to lose 3 straight to the Mets.  After that, the Braves, as I remember
    them, were mediocre.  I do know they won the West in what 1980 or
    81 with Ted as owner.  He made the mistake of signing average players
    to HUGE contracts, mortgaging his future.  Monumental failures.
    The 'new' Braves at least are approaching rebuilding at the farm
    system level, and I feel they will be more competitive in the coming
    years.  The Hawks?  Well they went the free agent route, and have
    been competitive.  50 win seasons were the norm for a while.
    
    Where would these franchises be if Turner didn't own them?  WHo
    knows - they might be in Denver or Birmingham or Orlando....
    
    I like the ideas of the Goodwill Games - and ABC's decision to televise
    (and therefore defray some of Ted's costs) can only help, IMO. 
    Nothing wrong with another world class sporting event - especially
    one that promotes "Goodwill".   I went to the track and field events
    at this year's games and everyone, including the athletes, seemed
    to be having a good time.
    
    Ted Turner has changed the communications world.
    
    And while Ted had nothing to do with Atlanta getting the bid, rest
    assured that if it wasn't for Ted's monetary influx into Atlanta
    in the 70's and 80's, that the city wouldn't have been in position
    to win.
    
    JD