Conference 7.286::sports_90

    
    	Ummm, restaple?  I don't think that'll work too well on
    	slate.
    
    	Thanks for the tips though ... the "rail shots" are the
    	only ones I can't do that well.  I've practically master-
    	ed the cross-side and cross-corner, as well as the "all the
    	way back to the corner shot" off the bank.
    
    	[Once I did a double-bank shot, knocking the object ball
    	into the corner.  My friend was amazed ... actually, so was
    	I!!]
    							GTI
    
    	[My friends call me GTI ... but you can all call me Shawn.  8^)]
    

    
    	Really?  The original green is glued to the slate.  I
    	figured that was the only way you could do it.
    
    							GTI
    

    So,
    
     Any of you Wizards out there know a good rule book on Snooker ??
    I need a Title/Author so I can order on.  I was taught by a 
    friend of mines brother a while back but I wanna make sure I'm
    playing by the real rules not "Brown Rules"......  
    
    Thanks In Advance,
    
    Jack "Big Game" Hunter

I played some snooker while I was in Australia recently.  Let
me tell you that's one BIG table.  I'm not much of a pool player
to begin with, and when it came to shooting a ball on the other
end of the table, I was hopeless.  Sure I could usually make 
contact, but accuracy was just a rumor.

Are there snooker tables here in America?  Are the tables
really, really big as well?

Dan

    Yea Dan,  There are Snooker tables in America.  I was out 
    playing with Chris the other night !
    
    Big Game

Chris?  Could he see over the edge of the table?

Dan

    > "Erin go braghless"
    
    You're just borrowin' that p_name, right Shawn?  Cause I got that baby
    tm'd many, many years ago.......  And, I only use it once a year on a
    certain day.......
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Hawk

I had the opportunity to watch a *lot* of snooker last year while 
in France.  Every Tuesday evening on SUPER channel, it's on for 90 minutes
I think.

Anyway, this tremendously dry British announcer (no offense to all my
friends on that side of the pond ;^)) would drone on and on about how
exciting it was...

SERIOUSLY, while at first it was about as exciting as watching mildew
form, once I got the hang of it, it became quite fun.  Watching Steve
Davis, the best in the world, I got some idea of the game.  From what
I gathered, the point of the whole thing is in positioning the cue ball
after the shot.  Not being an experienced pool/snooker player, I was
amazed at the way these guys did this...PLUS they had to wear a
bow tie while they did it...

That table is HUGE, too.  And the referee wears white gloves...(heh heh heh).

Snookeringly yours,
Chainsaw

    Sooooooooooooooooooo.....  who knows of a good rule book for
    Snooker....???
    
    Big Game

I don't have one in mind...

Perhaps I'm way oversimplifying, but you have to pocket a red ball before
you can go after the colored balls.  I know that reds are worth 1 point,
black is high with 10.  

If you pocket a colored ball, then you must pocket a red before going
after another colored ball.

I don't know the deal on a scratch....

If I'm way off, someone bash me, but it's been a while since I've
seen the game...

Chainsaw

    Sounds like the rules I learned....  I have heard that there
    are variations on the game though...  Plus,  I was taught by
    a friend from South Dakota.......  Who know what rules thay 
    play by up there.  
    
    Big Game

    The only time I ever played snooker was in Scotland a couple years ago. 
    What I remember of the rules are:
    
    	1.  Enter snooker hall, order 2 pints each to start the game.
    	2.  A Scotsman shoots first, then time for another round of pints.
    	3.  By the 3rd shot of the game, bladder must be emptied like a 
    	    racehorse.  Pick up another pint on the way back.
    	4.  My turn.  Haven't a clue.  No problem, we down another pint!
    	5.  Hit wrong color ball.  No problem, .........
    
    Hope this helps.  :-)
    
    Hawk

    Yea !!  I guess thats about right.  Oh well, there must not
    be a rule book for this game,  I like yours anyway.
    
    Big Game

Big Game --

Try sending some mail to Dougie (AYOV18::DROBB) Robb.  He and I usually
trade books for CDs.  He might be able to help you out.

HTH,
Chainsaw

    
    	From what I remember:
    
    	There are a whole mess of red (or brown) balls on the table,
    	and 4 or 5 "colored" balls.
    
    	You sink a red/brown ball, then a colored ball.  The colored
    	ball is returned to the table after being sunk, the red/brown
    	balls remain in the pocket/return chute.
    
    	Once the red/brown balls are all sunk, the colored balls are
    	sunk (in order, whatever it is).  They all have different
    	point values.  The winner is the one who gathers the most
    	points throughout the course of the game.
    
    	Back to "real" pool:  8^)
    
    	I've been working on "lining up the next shot" after sinking
    	a ball, and it's difficult at times.  A combination of top-
    	spin (or bottom spin) and left or right spin works wonders
    	for setting you up for another ball.
    
    	RE: Hawk
    
    	Yeah, I was going to change the p_n today ... I got it from
    	another conference last week.  It's all yours.  8^)
    
    							Shawn L.
    

       Big Game,
          I mosied on over to the BOOKS conference and entered
    a request for a snooker book pointer. Hopefully this will
    eliminate the need for your constant begging for rule 
    assistance :^>   
          When they respond, I'll post the info.
          
    Please, no thanks are necessary :^>
    Bull
    

     Oh Thank you Great Pumpkin  !!!  I knew you'd come through.
    
    ;^)
    
    Seriously,  Thank alot for the help.  I would have even asked
    in here but I've been everywhere in town.  Even the pool hall
    pro-shops.
    
    Big Game

    
    RE: Great Pumpkin
            With my physique I resemble that remark :^>
    
    Bull
    

    Sorry,   Didn't know !!   Don't want to offend anyone you know..
    
    BiG Game

    Don't worry about it Big Game.  Just take a soft, lint-free cloth and
    buff ol' Bull's head a few times to make him feel better!  :-)
    
    Hawk

    
       Hey, hey, hey. Watch it there guys. I know that you are dead
    serious with these comments (that smiley didn't fool me Hawk and
    I know that you really meant what you said Big Game). If you guys 
    insist on keeping up this barrage of Junk Notes upon my person, I 
    shall be forced to sending whining-type mail to the moderators 
    insisting that your keyboards be repossessed.
    
    With tear-filled eyes,
    Bull
      
        

While it was not exactly a pool bar we were in, I feel it only
fair to warn my fellow noters, that Bull and I are the only two
people in the history of the world to get shut off in The Fifth Alarm
in Springfield...

Not men who are easily trifled with....

Chainsaw

     `Saw,
    
     From what I hear, you have to be almost "Brain Dead" to get
    cut off at the Fifth Alarm....   Do you qualify ??  ;^)
    
     Bull,
    
     Sorry I called you the Great Pumpkin,  I don't know what to
    say except that it was before I was converted into a Kinder&Gentler
    noter.  Seriously though,  THX.....
    
    
    KG_Big Game

Well, Big Game, Bull and I were "fairly well preserved" but I think
we got jobbed by the bartender....right Bull?

Could we call him a Clemsuck(tm) bartender?  Perhaps...

You've got to get on out this way, and the three of us can try
to make it two in a row at the Alarm....

later,
Chainsaw

PS  I'm heading out to the mall this weekend, and they have some
    pretty extensive bookstores.  I'll see if I see anything on Snooker
    for ya....

     `Saw,  That would be great !  I know I could get us 
    cut off at the alarm, or at very least, thrown out !!  ;^)
    If you do see something on Snooker,  get the title and 
    author form me.......  I'll make it worth your while.
    I could send you a autographed picture of Mr. Ed or 
    something along those lines.
    
    KGBGH
    

    Hey !!!!
    
     I found the damn rule book for snooker......  If anyone is interested
    in the title/author  send me mail
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Big Game

Where????  

     An out of the "Way" pool supply joint.  The book cost
    a whole $1.25 and has complete rules for about 20 pool
    games.
    
    Big Game

Just wonderin'....

I was at the Mall a couple of weeks back, and I did look in 
a couple of bookshops, but didn't find nothing....

Chainsaw

PS  Glad you found it after your Hunt-er, your search...

    Real funny, `Saw.......
    
     Big Game

[lotsa smilies, because it's Vacation - 32 hours!!!!]

It's just as manly, dude...

It's very english, and I get my inherent manliness from the proponderance
of the Scottish blood coursing through my vains.  Couple that with
the germanic derivation from my mother's side, and you have a
force to be reckoned with ;^)

Hunter has got to be Scottish/English...so we're basically on the
same side...

(And I agree, I was pretty funny there.... Beauty, eh? ;^) ;^))

    
    	RE: Frank
    
    	Geez, you're making me sick.
    
    	8^)
    
    	RE: book
    
    	Hmmm, now that you mention it I might have one of those ...
    	I got it at that sports/hobby shop in downtown Marlboro a
    	few months ago.
    
    							Shawn L.
    

>>    	RE: Frank
    
>>    	Geez, you're making me sick.
    

Shawn, I'm engaging in two well known SPORTS activities.

Craven Pandering, and Exuding Greatness...


HTH,
Chainsaw    

    
>Shawn, I'm engaging in two well known SPORTS activities.
>
>Craven Pandering, and Exuding Greatness...
    
    
    	Well, there must be something wrong with your output stage
    	because I don't see a darn thing.
    
    	Hee hee!!
    
    	8^)
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    Does anyone know of a poolhall in the Lowell area?  I'd like
    to get back into the swing of things.
    
    The Wizard

     Well `Saw,
    
     You make my day sometime too.
    
     You're right,  I do have some Scot in me....
    
     Big Game

    
    > You're right,  I do have some Scot in me....
    
    
    	Really?  What's his name?
    
    	Kinda personal, isn't it?
    
    							Shawn L.
    

     Ok, Ok.....  I left myself open for that one
    so I won't get pissed.  You are obviously new 
    to this note and have not been informed about
    our "Valuing Differences" program.  Remember,
    This is a kinder & gentler notes file. BTW,
    FWIW,  I'm not one of those persons that might 
    be concerned about a comment like that.   ;^)
    
    Big Game

    HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHA!!!!!!
    
    Cactus Jack got burned!!!!! Just like when he plays football.
    
    
    I'm roooolllliiinnngg!!!!

    
    	I do have a rule book at home ... "Minnesota Fats on Pool"
    	or something like that.  It's an instructional-type book
    	with a section devoted to game rules.
    
    	Do you know what "snookered" means?  It means you don't
    	have a clear shot at your object ball, and you therefore
    	have to bank the cue.
    
    	BFD - I prefer bank shots to straight shots anyways!!
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    Hey Shawn .....   You're a JERK !!  ;^)
    
     I owed you that from yesterday
    
    Big Game

Re: Shawn on prefering bank shots

Yeah, Shawn, it gives you a built in excuse for missing the shot. :^)

Pete

    
    	RE: ::HUNTER
    
    	You must be new to this conference, and be unaware of the
    	"Valuing Differences" policy.  Jerks are people too.
    
    	8^)
    
    	RE: Pete
    
    	Yeah, but I've used that excuse too many times.  Believe
    	it or not, I can do a cross-side easier than I can do a
    	shot which covers alot of green.  I have to work on my
    	cross-corner (long, that is - the "short" cross-corner
    	shots are just like a cross-side) shot.
    
    							Shawn L.

    RE: Shawn
    
    This makes a little sense if you think about it.  Assuming that
    you know that as long as you don't use english the ball will 
    rebound at the approximate angle you hit the bank, then the
    'distance' of a banked shot will usually be less than the 'long'
    shot, therefore giving you more margin for error.  
    
    Of course, if you use english then everything changes and practice
    will make one better than the other.
    
    The Wizard

    
    	RE: Wizard
    
    	Well, when doing a cross-corner (long), the distance will
    	be more than a straight shot with alot of green.
    
    	The only time I use "english" on the cue is when I have to
    	make a bank shot and avoid an obstacle (like another ball
    	that's in the path of the cue).
    
    	I tried using "russian" on the ball but the cue wouldn't
    	even budge until it had permission to do so.
    
    	8^)
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    RE:  Shawn
    
    Obviously I've never seen you play, but from your statement of your
    use of "english", I'd say that you should use it much more often.
    I find that the number one use for it is to set up the second shot,
    making it easier, rather than sinking the first and hoping that
    the ball stops in an appropriate place.
    
    > I tried using "russian" on the ball but the cue wouldn't
    > even budge until it had permission to do so.
    
    Very true.  You should watch out for players that use "muslim"
    though, they seem willing to sacrifice themselves to be at
    FATS side.
    
    The Wizard

    
    	RE: Wizard
    
    	Oops, you're right ... I meant to say "I usually use
    	'english' to avoid obstacles".
    
    	I've been working on setting up my next shot, so as soon
    	as I can master that I will be THE force to be reckoned
    	with.
    
    	8^)
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    I too am working on my game, and that is why I requested information
    as to the whereabouts of a poolhall in the Lowell area, but alas
    noone seems to know.
    
    8'(

    Well, I cain name a ton o' bars in Lowell........  :-)
    
    Hawk

    
    	RE: Hawk
    
    	Lemme guess ... everyone carries pool sticks into the bars
    	whether there are tables or not?
    
    	8^)
    
    	RE: Wizard
    
    	I know of a few "pool halls" (most in bowling alleys), but
    	I don't know Lowell at all.
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    RE: Hawk
    
    I'd rather avoid the type of people who reside in the bars in this
    area.  They, how shall I say it, don't behave the way I would hope.
    
    RE: Shawn
    
    Name them, maybe they're close enough to travel for a game.
    
    							The Wizard

	I think there is one of those new yuppie type pool halls on 110 in
chelsford.  Next town over.


mc

    
    	Route 9 - Shrewsbury
    
    		Town and Country Bowling Lanes
    
    	Route 20(?) - Marlboro
    
    		[some new place downtown]
    
    	The others are near RI.
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    
    	Of course, if you're ever near the MA/RI/CT border then
    	you can always arrange a time to play on my table.
    
    	Most of my "Mass. knowledge" is concentrated towards the
    	southern part of the state.
    
    							Shawn L.
    

	Unless you can learn to play pool in Biker Bars, Cowboy Bars, Redneck
Bars, and other establishments sometimes considered less than `genteel', you
will never be a serious competitor, and will miss out an many of the finer
nuances of the game.

Mike JN

PS This is true

    I completely agree with you, but I'm not playing pool for money,
    rather for the sheer enjoyment of playing the game.  It doesn't
    matter if I became so good I never missed, I would still never
    play a game for money.
    
    The Wizard

    Hey Wiz, even if you were playing for someone else's money??
                Exploding Mines want to know :-)
                         Raider_Rich
    

I might be wrong, because my memory is a little hazy, but in Snooker,
you have to hit the object ball with the cue ball w/o banking it.

Thus, if you are able to position the cue ball such that your opponent
cannot do that (i.e. chances are you just played a safety) then you
have snookered him, and he has to play a safety.

Steve Davis, probably still the #1 ranked Snooker player in the world,
was really good at this when I was watching the matches lasted year.

Chainsaw

     That is correct `Saw....   
    
    Big Game    Gawd...  I'm still sick to my stomac !!
    
    Go Broncos !!
    
    

    re .62
    
    Does "have to hit the object ball with the cue ball w/o banking
    it" mean that the cue ball must go directly into the object ball
    without hitting a bank FIRST?
          
    If so, then no, you don't need to hit the object ball before a bank.
    It's the name of the game - if you couldn't hit the bank before
    the object ball then you'd have to swerve around the ball(s) behind
    which you are snookered every time, and that's pretty hard to do.
    
    rick                                      
    
    Some pool games use the rule, however.

    I think thats what was meant....  At least thats how I 
    understand it...
    
    Big Game
    
    Go Broncos in 1990 !!
    
    

    Big Game,
    
    My Gawd, this is like a project meeting:
    
    He thought that you said what he meant about what I said.........
    
    Are you trying to say that we all agree?
    
    rick

    
    	Well, I got my first "shutout" last week ... I was play-
    	ing better than usual and my opponent was playing worse
    	than usual.
    
    	Yay!!
    
    							Shawn L.
    

Rick --

What I meant was this....

From the Snooker I've watched, if you snooker your opponent, he
cannot play the object ball from behind the obstacle.  This accomplished,
he is forced to play a safety (ie a shot that will hopefully put the
cue ball in a poor position for you)...

So, it's like this.

I'm shooting, shooting, shooting, and all of a sudden I end up in
an untenable position.  Then I play a safety, to put the ball in
a position that you can't play from easily.  If I can put that ball
behind a ball that you're not supposed to hit (one of the colored balls)
and you can't hit one of the red balls w/o banking first, I've snookered
you.  All you can do is play a safety....

Get it?

Chainsaw

    
    	But why would a bank shot be illegal?
    
    	Isn't that more of a challenge than a straight shot?
    
    	It sounds ridiculous to me.
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    > ....I got reply #69!!
    
    Oh yeah?  Check out the MUSIC conference, note 1111.  I started that
    note last week.  The strange thing about it is that the note was
    entered at 11:11.  Beat that!  :-)
    
    Hawk

From what I got out of watching snooker, the rules state that
you have to hit the object ball directly.  The object ball can
then bank....

Here's the basic overview from what I remember (I could be wrong).

A player starts by shooting at a red ball.  If he pockets it, he
can then shoot for one of the colored balls (worth varying points with
black being the highest).  If he pockets it, the judge replaces the
colored ball on the proper spot on the table.  Then the player must
shoot for a red ball again.

This alternation continues until the player misses.  Obviously, as
with any cue game, the real skill is getting the cue ball set for the
next shot.  When the player misses the next player takes over.

The game ends when all the red balls are gone, and the player pockets
all the colored balls.

If a player cannot make a shot, he may play a safety.  Playing the
safety is to put the ball into a spot from which the opposing player
will have difficulty pocketing a red ball.  If you play a safety
such that your opponent has no legal shot, then you've snookered him.

He must play a safety...

Get it?  It's an english game....;^)  (No offense to all my friend from 
the UK 8^))

later,
'Saw

    
    >Get it?  It's an english game....;^) 
    
    	Oh ... so it isn't SUPPOSED to make sense.
    
    	8^)
    
    >(No offense to all my friend from the UK 8^))
    
    	And I echo this also, so I don't get in trouble.
    
    	8^)
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    You Got It, `Saw.....
    
    Big Game
    
    PS  When I get a chance I'll transcribe the rules into the 
        note..

    re:  'Saws explanations
    
    Great explanation a few notes back (saved the need for an
    intercontinental summit on this one....).  Now I understand what
    you mean, but it leaves me with a question:
    
    You mentioned that you must hit the object ball straight on (two
    notes back), and then the object ball can go off the bank or in
    the whole or off the table.....  If it were illegal to hit the bank
    first with the cue ball, which hits the object ball only after hitting
    the bank, how the devil would you ever get out of a snooker (hook
    in U.S.)?
    
    
    re .72
             
    Absolutely right!  Very little does make sense in the U.K.
    
    
    rick
    

    BTW, I've been wondering if the object of Nine Ball as a pool game
    is simply to get the Nine ball??
    
    rick

    >I've been wondering if the object of Nine Ball as a pool game
    >is simply to get the Nine ball??
    
    Yes.  Usually a game consists of the best 7 out of 13 racks.  Any
    combination, provided you hit the object ball, that sinks the nine
    ball can be considered a 'win'.  However, if you don't call it,
    someone might call it luck and hurt you.  8^)
    
    The Wizard

    
    
    	Re. A few back
    
         Having played this game for some 25 years, I do not recall
    not being able to bank the cue ball into a red or the object ball.
    I do admit I have never set down and read any rules books on the
    subject. A missed shot constitues a scratch, which cost the shooter
    a minimum of 4 and a max of 7 depending on the ball shot or ball
    hit by mistake. 
    
    Cadzilla

    
    	I have to put something in this topic, because every time I
    	get in here and check this note I see reply 78.  Not that
    	there's anything wrong with it, but it's getting boring!!
    
    	8^)
    
    	I was looking through my "rule book" and found a pretty
    	good game ... "One Pocket", I think it's called.  You pick
    	a pocket, and your opponent picks a pocket ... and balls
    	dropped into these pockets count for the person "owning"
    	the pocket.
    
    	We divided the table in half (lengthwise) and played that
    	way ("Three Pockets", I guess you could call it) for a
    	couple games.  It's pretty challenging.
    
    	The only bad thing about it is that if your opponent gets
    	the right set-up he can clean up (we played "any balls".
    	We should try "One Pocket - High/Low" or something like
    	that).
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    
       Shawn,
           I've seen a variation of that one pocket game. It's
    the same as hi-low but, whichever pocket you make your last
    hi/low ball in is the pocket in which you have to make the 8.
    Your opponent has to pocket the 8 wherever he/she makes their
    last ball.
    
    Bull~
    

    I knew there was something that I wanted to put in here.....
    
    I heard a radio ad for this new pool hall opening-up tomorrow in
    Nashua, NH.  It boasts of having 30 quality tables, and for it's Grand
    Opening, there'll be an exhibition by King James Somethingorother, an
    8-time Straight Pool World Champ.  Also, as a Grand Opening Special,
    tomorrow, all day, playing time will be $7/hour (don't know what the
    regular price/s are).
    
    Directions to get there are the same as the directions for Jordan's
    Furniture that we've heard a zillion times- take Exit 1 off Rt. 3,
    right on Spit Brook, right on Daniel Webster Highway (at traffic 
    lights).  This place is 1/4 mile on the left, directly across from
    McDonald's.  Sorry, I still don't remember it's name.......
    
    Enjoy,
    Hawk

re .79, .80:

	Sounds like pocket pool to me.....

    
    After that last reply, I'm not sure if I should ask 
    if any of you guys ever play three ball?
    
    Bob V.
    

    re:  last few
    
    Hawk, what is Straight Pool?
    
    Shawn, are you talking about playing one-pocket on a pool table or
    snooker table?
    
    We used to play a game called Golf on a snooker table.  Each guy had
    his own cue ball and object ball (all different colours of course so as
    not to confuse who was who) and the game started with the first player
    shooting his cue ball out of the D at his object ball on the black
    spot.  (The order of pockets was always the same:  from the left hand
    pocket at the bottom of the table to the side pocket followed by the
    two corner pockets at the D end of the table, around to the other side,
    concluding with the right hand corner at the bottom of the table.)
    Anyway, the first player would just sort of touch the ball occupying
    the black spot so that he would have an easy shot into the left hand
    corner pocket the second time around.
    The second player would come along and do the same thing with his own
    cue ball and object ball.  Of course, there is nothing to stop you from
    moving anyone balls with yours (hrrrrrrrrrrmph!), so you could wait
    until someone had a dead on shot to sink his object ball and then zap
    him just before it was his turn.
    Anyway, the long and the short of it was that you sunk your object ball
    in each pocket in it's turn, going around the table.  You always had to
    leave your cue ball somewhere around the black spot pointing hopefully
    in the direction of the next pocket.
    Now the kicker:  Once you sink your object ball you start counting how
    many strokes it takes for each guy to make his ball.  The first man
    collected, say, a nickel a stroke from everyone; the second paid the first
    but still collected from everyone else, and so on.
    One last thing:  there were skittles on each of the spots from yellow
    through to pink inclusive, and if you knocked one over you had to start
    over on that hole!
    The winner could pocket 20 bucks no problem if you had four players.
    Great game:  every bit as frustrating as real golf...
    
    rick
    
    

    Just thought of another great one we used to play on a snooker table
    using the numbered balls (well, someone said there weren't enough notes
    in here...he'll soon be sorry):  cribbage.
    
    You rack 'em up as usual with the 15 ball in the middle of the rack and
    smash 'em up as usual. 
    
    The object of the game is to make 2 balls *in succession* which
    together add up to 15 (like 15-two in the card game) - e.g. the 7 and
    the 8, or the 12 and the 3, etc..  As you can imagine, it's a challenge in
    shape (English-English say "position") playing as you getting the first
    one is easy, but having to go all over hell's half acre to get a good
    shot on the second is not so simple...  Each time you make 15, you
    collect a pre-determined amount from each player (it was a quarter when
    we played).
    
    The kicker is to get a good shot on the 15 ball, which of course makes 
    15 all on it's own.  Not only that, but when it is sunk, it gets pulled
    back up like any ball, but gets put on the black balls' spot (all the
    others go on the pink spot - one behind the other if necessary).
    Therefore, if the cue ball is about halfway between the corner and the
    side pockets fairly close to the rail/cushion, you can just carry on
     alternating from side to side shooting the 15 in, collecting quarters 
    from each turkey every time.  These days you'd probably play a dollar a
    go, which translates into four bucks for every 15 ball if you are 5
    guys.  Now just make 8 or 9 in a row four or five times in an
    afternoon....
    
    rick
    

Rick....

Does it help in understanding those rules if you read them when you
are thorougly drunk?  If so, I'll go home and get blitzed tonight and
read them again ;^)


And how can I confuse you guys if I'm confused myself?

(Now, where's that sheep)

Chainsaw

    > What is straight pool?
    
    Beats the daylights outta me!
    
    BTW, that new pool hall is called Maximillians.  Take exit 1, right on
    Spit Brook, right on Daniel Webster Highway......  Thank you Elliot, or
    is it Barry?  :-)
    
    Hawk

Interesting thing on ESPN on Saturday.  ONly caught part of it
because I had to wash the truck, but it was a Pool/Snooker
playoff between Mizerak and a snooker player (George Jones(?))

Anyway, the set up was best-of-3 in Straight Pool, best-of-3 in
Snooker, best-of-3 in eight ball.

The straight pool they were playing was like this:

	Shoot until you miss.  Leave the last ball on the table,
	rack the rest, leave cue ball in last position.  Must
	pocket last ball while breaking.

I didn't see the snooker or 8 ball part.

I'm not familiar with the Jones fellow.  Now if it had been
Steve Davis, I might not have washed the truck but watched instead.

Steve Davis is to snooker what Michael Jordan is to hoops...

Chainsaw

    Chainsaw,
    
    So what happened late last week?  Did you understand golf and cribbage
    better before or after getting drunk?
    
    Never mind, you've confused us (i always look forward to Mondays for
    this!!).  In the straight pool paragraph you mention that the last ball
    is left on the table and must be pocketed on the break.  What happens
    if you don't pocket it?  How do you actually win/finish a game of
    straight pool?  When you rack 'em up while the last ball is left where
    it was, which spot in the rack is left empty?  When you break do you
    smack the pack or the last ball left from the previous frame?  What is
    the capital of Guatemala?
    
    BTW, Steve Davis is seen as sort of the Ivan Lendl of snooker.  So
    booooooooooooring....  I much prefer the fantastic, unbelievable Cliff
    Thorburn from you-know-where.
    
    Oh, well, we're all confused, but Shawn L. is happy since he's not
    looking at note .78 any more.
    
    rick

Rick,

Such intense questions!  That's almost like asking why the 
adrenal gland is placed on top of a kidney and not beside it.  You
could argue that one all day!

But, seriously, I don't know what happens if the last ball isn't
pocketed.  I don't know how you win (I assume achieving a certain
point total.)

Since I was going on this killer date on Sat night, I had to wash the
truck.  If it was going to be yet another boring Sat night spent
sharpening the chainsaw, or dissecting the animals my wolf leaves on
the back doorstep, I would have continued to watch.

I like Steve Davis.  True, he's the typical stoneface in a sport
that's about as exciting as watching one's toenails grow, but he
certainly is accomplished.  And I'd bet he's good with thing other
than a pool cue, since his fiance (wife by now perhaps) is the
epitome of the term smash fox....

Yes, Shawn has had something good to read.....(not as good as Sir
Walter Scott or Kurt Vonnegut though....)


chainsaw

    
  > Such intense questions!  That's almost like asking why the 
  > adrenal gland is placed on top of a kidney and not beside it.  You
  > could argue that one all day!
    
    'Sawbones,
       Any pseudo-doctor worth his weight in beer knows that if the
    adrenal gland were beside the kidney it would slide down onto
    your hip.
    
    Dr Bull~ 
    

    OK, OK!!
    
    Sorry for all those picky questions (@$!#%ing analytical types!!)!!
    
    Great description, Mike.  I've even played the game a few times a long
    time ago - when you explained how to break out the rack little by
    little I remembered.  It seems to me that you need to leave the last
    ball and the cue ball in such a way as to be able to pocket it on the
    first shot of the next rack, and at the same time bust out a couple of
    balls and get shape on them so that you can continue.  Same principle
    as snooker, really.
    
    Now for the game of Life (move in closer Chainsaw...):  I suppose it
    can be played on either a pool or (preferably) a snooker table. 
    Firstly, each player chooses his own personal ball - usually you take
    the snooker balls and, if, say, there are five players, you take the
    white, yellow, green, brown, and blue (doesn't matter as long as they
    are different).  To start, the white goes on the black spot and the
    player with the yellow ball shoots it at the white out of the "D" in an
    attempt to sink the white or move it close to a pocket, while at the
    same time leaving his yellow ball SAFE.  Next, the player with the
    green shoots it out of the "D" at the yellow, which has now become
    object ball.  Then the next guy shoots the brown into the green, the
    next player the blue into the brown, the next shoots the white (which
    was originally on the spot) into the blue, and so on.
    
    Just as in real life, you shoot at someone and then someone else shoots
    at you (well, in real life sometimes you shoot nobody and someone STILL
    shoots you...).  Each player is normally allowed 3 lives - i.e. once his 
    ball has been pocketed three times he's out of the game.  Each time you
    pocket the ball of the player in front of you, you can then shoot any
    or all of the other balls remaining, thusly zapping everyone (this is
    difficult since everyone is always playing his ball safe).  If you
    succeed, the ball you started off with goes on the black spot and you
    shoot it out of the "D" in an attempt to take his second life in a row.  
    If you don't clear all the balls, then those players who were zapped shoot 
    out of the "D" when their turn comes.
    
    The winner is the last one to have a life (or lives) left when everyone
    else is dead - sort of like Rollerball.  He then smartly collects the
    ante from each sucker and laughs.
    
    Tee hee, I can imagine 'Saw with his face stuck to his terminal trying to
    get this one... 
    
    rick 

Quick, someone get me a knife...my right eyeball is suctioned
onto this damn terminal screen.  Didja ever try to type looking
out of just your left eye????

Actually I get it.  The adrenal gland is on top of the kidney so it
doesn't wind up on your hip, and your pituitary is nestled up near
your brain so it don't wind up in your ear.  

If that's the case then why are those other two thing just dangl...
aw, never mind.  Guess I'll just stick to Crazy-Eights....

Chainsaw

    OK, OK, I knew this would happen.
    
    I was saving this one for when you would really start to lose interest:
    
    Ready?
    
    Pea-pool.  That's right - pea-pool.  Not pee-pool, where everyone picks
    a pocket and......
    
    'Saw, this one's so easy you can just break out a couple of six packs
    before reading it tonight...
    
    You get a plastic bottle shaped object and 15 little round wooden
    balls, of which each has  anumber from 1 to 15 on it.  
    
    Each player picks one, keeps the number a secret.  
    
    The first player to sink the ball with the same number as on his 'pea'
    wins the ante from everyone.  
    
    Simple, eh??  Just when you thought it was getting complicated.
    
    rick
    

Uh, Rick....are those numbers decimal, or hex? ;^)

>>Uh, Rick....are those numbers decimal, or hex? ;^)

Awright, awright, got the message.  No more games.

You'll be sorry later on in life, 'Saw.........

Just yankin' yer chain there, Rick ;^)

Actually, I kind of enjoyed those games you were listing, and in
fact I've been thinking about developing some of my own.
The only problem is is that they're a little X-rated 8^)

Always keep s GOOD CUE and you'll never be sorry ;^) ;^)


'Saw

Ya, Ya, 'Saw, I knew you were havin' me on - my sarcastic sense of humour
doesn't go over the network I guess.

Hope my cue stays straight so I can learn some of those games you're 
talking about - teach those sweet young ladies that go to the pool room
on Sunday afternoons....

rick  8^{)

    
    	Ha ha ... I finally did it!!
    
    	Cue right on the dot, nailed it with some top-spin, hit the
    	rack nice and square ...
    
    
    	... 8-ball all the way back to me, in the left corner, off
    	the break!!
    
    	Yay!!
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    > 8-ball all the way back to me, in the left corner, off the break!!
    
    In nine ball, that's easy 8^)
    
    Seriously, it has been a while, but I do believe that the official
    rules DON'T say this is an automatic win.  This is just a sunk ball,
    that is taken back out.  Because of its difficulty many houses 
    adopted the automatic win rule to spice up the game.  However, like
    I said, it has been a while since I read the rules.
    
    The Wizard

Well, Shawn, I'm proud of you anyway  8^)

    
    	Thanks, Frank.  I was pretty darn happy.
    
    	We do count that as a win (house rules) ... I'll have to see
    	whether or not it's actually "the rule" as fas as 8-ball
    	(or "Hi-Lo", or "Solid-Stripe") goes.
    
    	What we don't count as a loss is a scratch off the break ...
    	we'd be re-racking after every 3rd break.
    
    	8^)
    
    							Shawn L.
    

Waydago Shawn,
 
It's more fun somehow with houserules like that - shore'nuff somebody will do
it when it's a big game...

I think the official rules would state that putting the eight in off the
break means *losing* the frame, not winning it.

rick   

    
    	I forgot to look up the "official" rule last night ... may-
    	be I'll remember tonight.
    
    	Well, I think it should count as a win.
    
    	8^)
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    
    	I brought in "Minnesota Fats on Pool" today ... I'll be back
    	in a while with some details on "Solid/Stripe (8-ball)".
    
    							Shawn L.
    

Hey Shawn

I recall reading Fats' autobiography/how to book - think it was called "The
Bank Shot".  I don't have it any more and would love to get my hands on it.
He tells a whole score of anecdotes about big bucks games that is really 
hilarious - he comes off in print just like he talks.  Then a second section
of the book is all about how to use English (make great Butlers), snookers,
bank shots, etc..

Mebbe you can have a look where you found the Pool one and let us know....

Finally, didja know that Fats is (was?) SWISS, of all things??

rick

One of the greatest rivalries in pool was the Minnesota Fats - Willie 
Mosconni "feud".

The way I've heard it, neither one of these two greats could stand the
other.  But boy could they shoot pool....

Just some mist for the grill, er, uh, grist for the mill...
'Saw

    re: -1
    
    	Feud??  Mosconni's main gripe was that Fat's really wasn't the
    real Fat's and that he stole the name from the movie _The Hustler_.
    
    	Adding to that was the glaring fact that "Fat's" was never a
    great player as was Mosconni.  Mosconni is considered one of the
    two best pool players to ever live.  Irving Crane being the other
    legend.  Fat's is just a fat loud mouth who can play a little. 
    Mosconni buried him everytime they met and rightly so.
    
    								bill..g.
    

Agreed Bill.  I personally thought that Mosconni has a ton of style,
and I've preferred players who let their play speak, not their mouths.

Still, to hear the two of them get on each other during a match
was kind of fun....it was pretty subtle the times I saw them...

'Saw

    
    	The book says:
    
    	Balls pocketed off the break count.  If one of each ball group
    	is pocketed, the player has his choice of solid/stripe.
    
    	The player having solids must pocket the "1" in one of the
    	side pockets, and the one having stripes must pocket the
    	"15" in the opposite side (appropriate sides were specified,
    	but I don't think it really matters, as long as it's decided
    	before the start of the game).  If the "1" or the "15" is
    	dropped into the wrong pocket, the ball is spotted.
    
    	[The book says the "15" must be dropped in the left side
    	pocket, while the "1" has to be dropped in the right side
    	pocket.]
    
    	All combinations (I guess that means you can combo off of
    	an opponent's ball, which our "house rules" prohibit) are
    	legal unless you're shooting for the "8".
    
    	You must call the ball you're aiming for, but calling the
    	pocket isn't necessary.  (Our house rules also specify
    	that you must call the pocket).
    
    	If, after a scratch, there are object balls within the
    	head of the table, the one closest to the head spot is
    	spotted at the foot spot.  (Hmmm, I never knew this ...
    	we don't aim at the balls unless they're beyond the head
    	spot).  If the "8" is the only remaining object ball, the
    	same is done.
    
    	There is nothing in here about scratching on the break, or
    	sinking the "8" off the break.  Oh well.
    
    							Shawn L.
    

  On Fats and Mosconni:

  I've seen the fat man play numerous times in person. There's no question
  Mosconni was/is the better overall player. But for a long time, Fats was 
  one of the best if not "the best" at the games of one pocket and bank pool.
  While Mosconni could beat Fats in every other game, he might not like playin
  the fat man in one pocket or banks. I remember once in 1970, a magazine called
  Billiard news ran an add payed for by Mosconni. In it, he challenged Fats to
  a 1000 point straight pool match for $10,000(a lot of money at the time).
  The next month, Fats put an ad in the same magazine which said "I hearby
  challenge Willie Mosconi to a 1000 point game of straight pool for as much
  money as he can put in a wheel barrel. He gets one pocket, I get one pocket"
  Mosconni never answered the fat man's ad. 

  Fats has a loud mouth but he can be hilarious and has added a lot of color
  to the game. I'll never forget some of his lines:

	You may have heard of a pool player named Cornbread Red. Well, when
	I got done playin Cornbread Red, they called him Nobread Red.

	Mosconni, He's a terrific guy and a really goooood pool player...
	...a little pause.....but he's not gooood enough.

	I once went to Texas to play a guy they called Cannonball. When I
	got done playin Cannonball, they started callin him Beebee.

					Keith

    
    Someone once said Willie Mosconni had more class in his little finger
    than "Fats" had in his whole body.
    
    Got to see Mr. Mosconni put on a exhibition once and learned a shot I'd
    never seen before.  A week later I ran into the same situation in a
    game and, with perhaps a bit of luck, made it.  It brought the house down!
    
    Bob V.
    

re. 111

I thought that the Fat man (fly to the moon, Alice)in the Hustler was supposed
to represent Fats!  Was it indeed another guy that was Gleason was portraying?

re Shawn

Fascinating rules... never heard of the 1 and 15 in the side pockets business -
does it say where they must be in the rack??  Never heard of the spotting
of balls that are behind the break line, either.  Maybe that's to avoid a 
situation where a player would have to shoot uptable and back down at the
8 ball after a scratch by his opponent (here I go again 'Saw...)

Anyway, I recall Fats making fun of what he called "Tournament" players like
Mosconi saying that it was easy when there's no money on a game, and that they
all folded up like a house of cards when the money was on -like that $10,000
story a couple of notes back

    
    re: -1
    
    	The movie _The Hustler_ was supposed to be about fictional people.
    Fat's contends that the movie was made about him, but Willie says
    that Fat's stole the nickname.  Willie also stated that Fat's was
    never around any of the tournaments, so how did they make a movie
    about someone no one ever saw?  In the movie, Willie can be seen
    racking the balls and holding some of the money.  He was the technical
    advisor for the film as well as both Gleason's and Newman's "hands"
    during some of the close-up difficult shots.
    
    re: the 1000 point wager
    
    	Of course Willie wouldn't take that bet, because it is just
    a gimmick!  Fat's could never and still can't shoot straight pool
    which is the true test of a real player.  People forget that Willie
    had the longest run in billards history by running 525 balls without
    a miss.  I believe that record has been broken, but Willie did his
    in tournament play!
    	A long time ago, I saw some footage on Willie where he was doing
    trick shots by jumping tables!  One had him make two balls on a
    table that was seperated by a table (He jumped the ball from table
    1, it flew completely over table 2 and landed on table 3 only to
    pocket the two balls set at the break spot).
    
    							bill..g.
    

Re: Mosconi

	He was always considered the class of the game.

RE: The movie `The Hustler'

	Jackie Gleason was a wizard pool shooter, and the press releases, etc.
said he played all his own shots in the movie.

Mike JN

The neatest thing about pool is that it really is Physics in Motion...

I'm amazed at some of the trick shots and things that happen....

'Saw

    
    	I'm proud of one of my shots last night:
    
    	Cue to object ball.  Object ball off bank, to a combo ...
    	and the "real" object ball went into the side pocket.
    
    	So I guess that's a "cross-side double combo" or something
    	similar.
    
    	And I called it!!
    
    
    	Another one last night, which I wish I would've called:
    
    	Cue down at the foot of the table, object ball right in
    	line with the left corner pocket at the head of the table.
    	I never hit these straight ... I always bank the cue first,
    	so I can get the cue to the middle of the table somewhere.
    	So I banked the cue, the object ball fell, and then the cue
    	hit the ball which was against the bank across the head of
    	the table ... which travelled the width of the table and
    	fell into the right head corner.  Yay!!
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    
    	RE: Frank
    
    	Yeah, some of those shots are beautiful!!  I should get that
    	tape that they're always advertising on TV, and try to learn
    	some of them.
    
    	Gives "English" a new meaning!!
    
    							Shawn L.
    

    
    re: Gleason
    
    	True he was an above average player, but calling him a wizzard
    is a little much.  As for him shooting his own shots, that is
    believable, but Mosconni set up all the hard shots.
    
    								bill..g.
    

 Re: .90

 I've always wondered what straight pool was all about thanks for the 
explaination, I've got a few questions though....

 What happens when you go to re-rack the balls and the last ball from the
previous rack, or the cue ball, or both, are in the way of the new rack ?
What I mean is you can't get the new rack on the correct part of the table 
because it's occupied by the other balls.

Do the balls have to be potted in any set order or are they potted at random ?

If you nominate a ball and miss it completely what is the penalty ? 

What is the penalty if the cue ball goes in-off ? Is the next shot played from
the "D" like in snooker ?

Do you have to call each shot like in the movies or are flukes allowed ?

                          Morrie.

This is pablum compared to the 525 break by Mosconi mentioned a few notes back,
but somebody opened a pool hall in the Geneva area on the weekend, and 
invited a former Swiss champion for a demo.

They racked up twelve tables and he broke each rack and sunk 155 of the 180
balls in one minute.

Not bad, eh?  

I just thought about it and made a little calculation:

Let's say it took him 2 seconds for each break (since he has to walk from 
table to table).  That makes 24 seconds already.  Say he made 2 balls off the
break on each table.  That means he made 11 balls on each table in an
average of 3 seconds.

rick

    
    	I'll "toot my own horn" once more:
    
    	A couple weeks ago:  Behind-the-back combo, off the bank,
    	to the opposite corner at the far end of the table.
    
    	Ta-da!!
    
    	8^)
    
    							GTI
    

    Pretty good Shawn, but can you make the cue follow a grand prix
    course (zig-zag) and knock in the 8 ball.  I can, unfortunately
    it always seems to happen while I still have balls on the table
    
    The Wizard

    
    	RE: Wizard
    
    	You mean a left-right-left-right bank shot, and knock in the
    	8-ball?  Or do you mean an "almost figure-8 from the head
    	spot" and knock in the 8-ball?
    
    							GTI
    

    I mean, don't use any banks or other balls, but have the cue "dance"
    around.  Sort of like this
               _____
      0     0 /   0 \  0
       \_____/       \----->    8^)
    
    The Wizard
    

    
    	RE: Wizard
    
    	Yow!!  I wish I could do that!!
    
    	I can't get the ball to spin fancily unless I hit another ball
    	(or the bank) first.
    
    							GTI
    

Well, gents, instead of boring you with these snoozy descriptions, we can
now bore you with snoozy DIAGRAMS!!!  Move in, Chainsaw...

Played snooker yesterday, and is often the case at the beginning of the game,
could only see the pack of reds way down the table after the opponents safety
shot.  There was a red that I could not see because it was behind the yellow.
So I zapped the cue ball off the bank and smashed the red into the far side
pocket.  The turkey even had the nerve to ask me if I played the shot (hrrmph).
Anyway, it's a great shot to play as even if you miss the red will probably
go down and join the rest of the pack while the cue ball will probably be safe.
Goes for pool just as well.

And now for the diagram:

  C -----------------------------n--------------------------------}
  |                             /                                 |
  |                            /                                  |
  |      c         g          /                                   |
  |                          /                      o             |
  |       \                 /                     ooo             |
  |        \       b       /     b              p ooo        b    |
  |         \             /                       ooo             |
  |          \           /                                        |
  |           \    y    /                                         |
  |            \       /                                          |
  |             \     /                                           |
  |              \   o                                            |
  |               \ /                                             |
  C______________________________u________________________________}

c = cue ball
o = reds
g,b,y,b,p,b are green, brown, yellow, blue, pink, and black
C,n,u,}  are the pockets (anyone have any better way to do 'em??)

Yer turn, Shawn!!

rick

re .132:


	That was a totally BODACIOUS diagram, dude!

    
    ...guess we know which movie 'Saw watched this weekend.
    
    
                          
    -Royal Ugly Dude
    

Yeah, that Royal Ugly Dude was totally heinous.  But it was
a TRIUMPHANT adventure anyways....

I was rollward all the way through, especially with Sigmund "Frood"...

Party on dudes!

Chainsaw

    
    	RE: .133
    
    	Yeah, I think that was your best bet ... good shot!!
    
    	Anything else would've been alot harder, and quite probably
    	involving at least one more bank (unless "jump shots" are
    	considered legal).
    
    							GTI
    

    
>>    	RE: .133
  
  GTI,

  Waddyamean, re .133??  There ain't one.  BTW, wheredit go Mr. Moderator?
  Geeesh, maybe these descriptions are so boring that someone......

>    	Anything else would've been alot harder, and quite probably
>    	involving at least one more bank (unless "jump shots" are
>    	considered legal).
 
  I think jump shots are illegal in snooker and pool but I'm not sure.

  Anyway, NOT SO FAST, GTI. 
  Where is your Bodacious Shawn Shot of the Week???  Show us the diagram!!

  rick

    
    	I haven't played in about a week, so you'll all have to wait
    	until I do.
    
    	And, as always, I'll dazzle you with my brilliance.
    
    	8^)
    
    							GTI
    

And besides, when he does, I'm sure it will be a totally heinous
triumphant shot...right Shawn???

    
    	It sure will!!
    
    	[Insert "air guitar thingy" here]
    
    							GTI
    

    
       Last week, Steven Hendry (any relation, John?) won the World
    Snooker Championship. At age 21, the youngest to ever do so.
    
    Bull~
    

    My brother is Stephen Hendry but he's 28.  I don't think he plays
    pool but he does shoot darts and he hunts and fishes.
    
    Since most of my grandfather's side of the family is from Glasgow
    I'm not surprised that there's a similar name over there.  The only
    others with our name I know of are American League Umpire Ted Hendry
    (and I don't know if he's related, I wrote him once and he never
    wrote back) and whoever Hendry county in Florida is named after.
    
    John

What of Steve Davis these days?

Has he married that smash fox that was his fiance yet?

Deen to wonk(tm),
'Saw

    Davis lost his semi-final match to Jimmy White 16 frames to 14.
    He also lost his world no. 1 ranking to Stephen Hendry. 
    
     Davis suffered a loss of form at the start of this season and had
    been struggling up until the World Championship.
    
     As far as I know the World Snooker rankings for next season will
    be :
    
                       Stephen Hendry   1
                       Steve Davis      2
                       John Parrott     3
                       Jimmy White      4
    
    The list goes on but in general the top four are the only ones worth
    bothering about. The exceptions to this are Steve James and Neal
    Foulds who should appear at the top of the rankings in a few years
    time.
    
                                 Morrie.

Hi Morrie,

Where's Thorburn??

He was number 2 for dog's years....

rick

    
    	Well, I got yelled at for not saying anything in here for a-
    	while [and you know who you are!!] ... so here goes:
    
    	Why aren't there any listings for pool/billiard/snooker ev-
    	ents in the May cable guide?  Surely there must be SOMETHING
    	going on ... no?
    
    	Or do I have to glue myself to ESPN for 30 days straight and
    	hope for the best?
    
    							GTI
    

re .147 --

Geez, are you in here *again*!!!!! ;^)

Glad to see you're back, Shawn.  Musta been some pretty heavy duty stuff
going on over there in music and metalmania to keep you out for so
long ;^)

I think pool got edged out of coverage this month by the inaugural
games of the Professional Tiddly-Winks ASsociation season.  Might be
wrong though...

'Saw

    Re: .146
    
     Thorburn has fallen down the rankings quite a bit, he's still the
    same old Grinder but he just can't seem to win very much anymore.
    
     These days people like Stephen Hendry, Jimmy White and Steve James
    are excellent potters and don't put much emphasis on safety play.
    Safety players like Thorburn are finding it hard to compete.
    
     In case your interested here's a list of the World Rankings as
    of March. It's slightly out of date now since Davis has been 
    knocked from the number 1 slot but it'll give you a rough idea how
    things are going.
    
    Steve Davis                 1         Gary Wilkinson          15
    Stephen Hendry              2         Joe Johnson             16
    John Parrott                3         Alain Robidoux          17
    Jimmy White                 4         Alex Higgins            18
    Doug Mountjoy               5         Cliff Thorburn          19
    Mike Hallett                6         Dean O'Kane             20
    Terry Griffiths             7         Tony Knowles            21
    Dean Reynolds               8         Wayne Jones             22
    Dennis Taylor               9         S Newbury               23
    Willie Thorn               10         B West                  24
    M Clark                    11         Silvino Francisco       25
    Steve James                12         Neal Foulds             26
    John Virgo                 13         Cliff Wilson            27
    Tony Meo                   14         P Francisco             28
                                          Danny Fowler            29
                                          Tony Drago              30
    
     
                             Morrie.  (1,000,000 :-)

Shawn, you are hiding in here because you are still amazed and awed at that 
vivid description of cribbage!!  Actually, it wasn't too bad - I only forget
one major rule...  

Thanks a lot for the rankings Morrie.  Do you know who M. Clark and Alain 
Robidoux are??  I've never heard of them although I think Robidoux is a French
Canadian....

Tickled pink to see Hendry number 1 - he is excellent; especially for 20
or 21 years old.  First time I saw that skinny pimply-faced kid in the Ramada 
(with his waistcoat and bow tie) in Reading I thought he WORKED there!!!
Also, I've never liked Davis in the least even though Chainsaw says he has a
good looking lady (I still say he prefers boys...)

Finally, what tournaments are coming up?

rick

Re: .150

 M. Clark is a guy called Martin Clark... I've never heard of him either.
I watched almost all the televised snooker that was on this season and I
never saw him once. He must be winning something though to get himself 
into the rankings.

 Robidoux is a French Canadian and he's pretty good (he almost beat Hendry
in the 1st round of this years World Championship). I think this is his 
first year as a snooker profesional, before that I seem to remember hearing
that he was a pool player in Canada, I could be wrong though. Along with
Thorburn and another guy who's name I forget, he was in the Canadian team
that won this years World team championship.   

 The World Championship marks the end of the season (1989 - 90) so it's
a few months before the new season gets going again. When it does the 
tournament schedule will be...

August 1st - 7th              New Zealand Masters
September 12th - 16th         Regal Masters     
October 8th - 21st            Rothman's Grand Prix
October 25th - November 3rd   Dubai Classic
November 16th - December 2nd  Stormseal UK Open

                      1991
                      ----
December 7th - 16th           Everest World Matchplay  
January 1st - 12th            Mercantile Credit Classic 
February 3rd - 10th           Benson & Hedges Masters   
February 17th - March 2nd     Pearl Assurance British Open
March 9th - 17th              European Open
April 2nd - 7th               Benson & Hedges Irish Masters
April 20th - May 6th          Embassy World Championship
 
                        Morrie.

    
    	RE: Morrie
    
    	Thanks for the schedule.
    
    	Does anyone know when I can see some of this stuff on cable,
    	or do I have to keep checking week after week?
    
    
    	Well, yesterday I finished off a friend of mine with a "behind
    	the back, 8-ball off the bank to the far corner" shot.  HA!!
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	Played about 4-5 hours of pool Saturday night against a kid
    	at my friend's house, and won 10 ... ummm, points.  Yeah,
    	that's the ticket.
    
    	My long shots were right on, my cross-sides were practically
    	perfect, and I even hit alot of cross-corners from the oppos-
    	ite end of the table.  Quite impressive.
    
    	I was up by 14 points at one time, and dipped down to a low
    	of 6.  At one point I had a string of 8 wins in a row.
    
    	I was happy.
    
    							GTI
    

Clearly, Shawn's ego and abilities are reaching Onanesque proportions!

(congrats, dude, on those...points 8^))

'Saw

   I  knew a girl who had a parakeet named Onan....
   because it was always spilling its seed on the ground.

   Troof is stranger than friction
   Mike JN

< Note 87.156 by QUASER::JOHNSTON "WHOA! Death by STEREO!" >
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Another righteous and excellent film, destined to be a cult classic.

It was the first time I'd ever seen the female lead, Jamie Gertz.
That lusty dark beauty does something for me.

I also got a kick out of the two brothers...too funny.


Be excellent to each other,
'Saw

    
    	There were 3 of us playing last night ... me, my friend, and
    	his 10-year old nephew.  Two played, and the winner would play
    	the one who sat out the last game.  I lost once, and then went
    	on to win 8 straight ... 4 against each, alternately.
    
    	Don't you hate smart-*ss kids?  I'm lining up a combo shot,
    	and he suggests that i just "shoot for the one right near the
    	pocket" instead.  I come back with "If you're such an expert,
    	how come I'm playing right now instead of you?".
    
    	8^)
    
    	I even sunk a couple cross-corner shots [which I HATE], and
    	most of my cross-side shots were right on.
    
    							GTI

    
    	We were playing partners last night, and my team won.  I dec-
    	ided to break the next rack, so I did ... dropping 2 solids.
    	In the next 5 shots of my first turn, I dropped the remaining
    	5 solids.
    
    	Now I'm down to the 8.  It's sitting on the edge of the left
    	side pocket, and the 8 is down at the bottom of the table, to
    	the left of the dot.  I figured I'd bank it off the head of
    	the table and brush it in ... but, I missed it by about an
    	inch or so.
    
    	Oh well, their turn.  The first guy gets up to the table, takes
    	his shot ... and the cue ricochets into the 8 and drops it.
    
    	Hee hee hee hee!!
    							GTI

Shawn,

Funny, eh, you really have to have that killer instinct on the 8 ball, when
indeed the tendency is to relax because you've sunk all of yours except for
the last one, and the other guy still has all eight on the table!!

BTW, the way we played in the days when cash was involved was that once you
sunk the 8, you had won the other guy's 5 bucks or whatever.  Then, if you
could sink all of his balls (?) without missing, you collected 10 bucks instead
of 5!!

rick ellis 

    
    	We were going 2 ... umm, er, points (yeah, right) per game
    	per team.  The losing players each forfeit a "point" to the
    	winning players.
    
    	Even if I did sink the 8, I don't think I ever could've drop-
    	ped all of his 7 shots in a row ... and if I did, I don't think
    	I'd be in any condition to walk (after he got done with me).
    
    	8^)
    
    							GTI
    

================================================================================
Note 2933.0*           Announcing SNOOKER Notes Conference            No replies
MACNAS::JMURPHY "It's a Funny Old Game..."           15 lines  24-AUG-1990 04:24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I would like to announce a new conference .....
    
    		MACNAS::SNOOKER
    
    This conference is intended for use by all SNOOKER 
    players and fans to talk and comment on matters
    concerning SNOOKER (ie....players,matches etc.....)
                              
    Author.....Jody Murphy
    		Dec , Galway
    

    
    	There's a pool tournament at Shadows [Route 16, Mendon MA]
    	tonight at 7PM.  A friend told me about it.
    
    	I don't have all the details yet, but I'm thinking about
    	giving it a shot.  If I can get any info, I'll post it here.
    
    	If I do, I'll let you know how I did.
    
    	Anyone else interested?
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	In the next reply, I will enter an original sketch of a pool
    	table.  It can be used to describe shots that you've made,
    	alot easier than explaining them.
    
    	The first one that laughs at it gets a fat lip!!
    
    							GTI
    

	----------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	----------------------------------------------------------------
       :  \___________________________/   \__________________________/  :
       :\             3                                            6 8 /:
       : :                                                            : :
       : :                                                            : :
       : :                                                            : :
       : :      O Cue Ball                                            : :
       : :                                                            : :
       : :                                                            : :
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       :/  ___________5_______________     ________________1_________  \:
       :  /                           \   /                          \  :
        ----------------------------------------------------------------

	Name of the Game:
	Call Shot, Bank Ball, Last Pocket, Eight Ball
    
	Six banks Eight in the corner   #'s 1->6 = spots on cushion hit by cue

  re -.1

Quite a shot!  Cliff Thorburn made the same one on a snooker table a couple
of years ago - best part was that the black was sitting over the pocket right
between the 1 and 2 on your diagram.  So, his 4in-the-corner started off a
nice frame-winning run.

  re GTI

Try moving 2 or 3 balls into position, but don't pocket them until you are
absolutely sure of sinking the 8 as well during the same go at the table.

Then, zap, zap, zap, game over, goodnight Irene!


rick ellis

    
    	Reminder:
    
    	Tonight is the 2nd week for the pool tournament at Family
    	Fun Center in Mendon MA.  $5 entry fee, double elimination.
    
    	[But you might as well not show up, since I plan on winning
    	it all.  8^)]
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	Oh, so close.  The second time in a row I've been 3-2.
    
    	This week, I made it to the semi-final round.  I was down by
    	6 balls, until I cleared the table in 1 turn.  Then I missed
    	on the 8-ball and lost.
    
    	Of course, I had to follow tradition and lose the first game
    	of the night ... hopefully I can reverse that trend next week.
    	The 2nd game I kicked some butt and won by 4 or 5 balls.  The
    	3rd game was close ... came down to 2 or 3 balls and my op-
    	ponent dropped the 8 on a miscalculated bank shot.  The 4th
    	game I got revenge on the kid who beat me in the first game
    	and whipped him by 4 or 5 balls.
    
    							GTI
    

GTI --

Get there early and warm up.  Suck down a beer, get rid of the
jitters, mentally prepare yourself.

All this week practice imaging -- SEE yourself in your mind's eye
wiping the floor with the competition.

Then, after your warmup, leave.  Come back with a suit on and a lackey
to carry your stick (in a velvet lined case).  Rent a couple of huge
diamond rings from Taylor Rental Centers to wear for the match.
This phase is known as the psyche-out.

Finally, kick some ass.....OH, and have *fun*.


'Saw

    
    	It's an under-21 club, so there's no alcohol.  And with my
    	luck I'd get toasted and then get there and see 2 of every
    	ball.
    
    	8^)
    
    	I have a hard case, blue-felt lined, so part of the image
    	is there.  And you're right, I should get there and practice
    	[it takes me a game or 2 to warm up] ... but lately I've been
    	going there right after a softball game, and getting there
    	right at 7:10 or so.
    
    	Next week's my week, I know it.
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	I started out great this week ... got off to a 2-0 start and
    	it was looking great.
    
    	Then I lost the next game, and was 2-1.
    
    	The next game, my opponent eliminated me with 3 BEAUTIFUL
    	bank shots in a row.
    
    	Oh well ... maybe next week.
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	This week was horrible.
    
    	I lost the first 2 games ... oh well, better luck next time.
    
    	The kid that won the last 2 weeks suffered the same fate as I
    	did ... 2 losses, and he was out also.  And since I hadn't ever
    	played him, we took an open table and played a couple "practice"
    	games ... and I won them both.  We were both shooting like garb-
    	age, but I was shooting a little better.
    
    	So at least I didn't go home win-less.
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	Well, this week was much better than the last couple:
    
    	Game 1:	We were both shooting like garbage ... but somehow I
    		shot a little better and came out with a win.  1-0
    
    	Game 2:	We were both shooting fairly well ... came down to the
    		8, and I won.  2-0
    
    	Game 3:	I was kicking some butt, and making some nice cross-
    		corner and table-length bank/corner shots.  I was up
    		by about 4 balls, but then I couldn't get to the rem-
    		aining balls because all his were in the way.  Came
    		down to the 8, and I won this one.  3-0
    
    	Game 4:	Both shooting fairly well ... came down to the 8, and
    		I won this one.  4-0
    
    	Now I'm undefeated, and waiting for the other game to finish
    	so I can try and win again.  I haven't lost yet, and my op-
    	ponent has 1 loss.  He has to win twice, but I only have to
    	win once.
    
    	Game 1:	Blew a couple shots late in the game, and he took it.
    
    	Game 2:	[Down to the wire now] He blew a shot late in the game,
    		and I wrapped it up in 2 shots.  Finally I won!!
    
    							GTI

    GTI, clearly, the key to your success is to paint your cuestick before
    every tourney.......  :-)
    
    Hawk

Laquer that baby, GTI!

Congrats, dude.  No, after waiting so long make that Double Congrats!

'Saw

    
    	Thanks ... I was rather happy.
    
    	I need to put another coat of gloss black on the stick though,
    	because I let the final coat dry in damp weather ... and it
    	clouded the paint.
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	The manager/owner of the Family Fun Center in Mendon MA
    	[where I play pool every Tuesday night] is planning on
    	having an "over 21" tournament every Thursday night.  [The
    	tournament that I play in is all ages, and first prize is
    	a trophy.]$10 admission, double elimination tournament, first
    	prize being 1/2 of the total entrance fees.  An extra $1 per
    	entrant will be contributed to a "kitty" to be won by anyone
    	winning all tournament games that night.  If no one goes un-
    	defeated, the money is carried over to the next week and you
    	try again.
    
    
    	[Since the tournament is double elimination, the way it
    	works is that there will be one undefeated player at the
    	end matched against a player having 1 loss.  The undefeated
    	player only has to win one ... and if he wins the first one
    	he wins the "kitty".  If the player with a loss beats the
    	undefeated player, then the "kitty" carries over to the
    	next week.]
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	By the way, if you'd be interested in playing in the over
    	21 tournament then let me know ... I told the owner I'd
    	check around as far as interest goes.
    
    	Thursdays, probably 7:00 or 7:30 to 9:30 or 10:00.
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	The "Over 21 8-ball tournament" starts next Thursday at 7:30
    	PM at Shadows, in Mendon MA.  Route 16, right in front of the
    	Mendon Drive-In.
    
    	$10 entry fee ... possibly $1 extra gets thrown into a pool
    	to be given to a player who finishes the night undefeated.
    	If no one goes undefeated [double elimination], the pool is
    	carried over to the next week, and so on.
    
    	Be there, should you dare challenge the mighty GTI [who took
    	2nd place last night in the "all ages" tournament].  8^)
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	I was watching a singles/doubles billiards tournament on ESPN
    	last night, including Steve Mizerak and Ewa [something].  And
    	these people can shoot ... they don't miss!!
    
    	In doubles games, they alternate shots.  IE, a player doesn't
    	play out his/her turn ... if (s)he drops a ball, the partner
    	takes the next shot.  I saw Steve/Ewa clear the table without
    	giving the other team a shot through the whole game, at least
    	twice!!
    
    	And you want to talk about backspin?  Take a look at this:
    
    	----------------------------------------------------------------
       :  \___________________________/   \__________________________/  :
       :\                                                              /:
       : :                                                            : :
       : :                   P                                        : :
       : :     O                                                      : :
       : :                                                            : :
       : :                                                            : :
       : :                                                            : :
       : :         C                                                  : :
       : :                                                            : :
       : :                                                            : :
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       :/  ___________________________     __________________________  \:
       :  /            B              \   /                          \  :
        ----------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Steve shoots at the Object ball ... the cue hits the ball, bounces
    	all the way back to the Bank, and ends up somewhere around "P"!!
    
    							GTI
    

    
    	I played in a tournament at "Cocktails and Dreams" in Mendon
    	MA last night ... I finished 4th out of 16 entrants.  There
    	were some great shooters there!!  And I'm talking "running
    	the table".  We played on a 3.5x7 table, which really screw-
    	ed me up ... since my table, and most tables I play on, are
    	4x8.  In my last game, I missed 2 long shots that I know would
    	have fallen on the "correct sized" table.
    
    	There were 3 prizes ... 1st $140, 2nd $65, 3rd $35.  Of course
    	I missed a money prize by one game!!
    
    	There will be another tournament there on 11/18, which is a
    	Sunday, starting at 4:30PM.  Doule elimination, $15 entry fee,
    	all money collected goes back out to 1st 3 finishers.
    
    							GTI

Congrats, dude!

Gee, before you know it,  you'll be whuppin' these dudes, and you'll
be making some money.

Then, they'll be making films about you, and we'll be watching you
in ESPN.  We'll all sit back and say "We knew him when...."

Good luck!
'Saw

    RE: .185
    
    Hey Shawn, playing on the smaller-sized "bar tables" again?
    
    Maybe you should stick to Town & Country!
    
    
    :-)
    
    John

    
    	RE: Frank
    
    	Thanks!!  And when I make it big, I'll remember all the "Lit-
    	tle guys" who cheered me on.  8^)
    
    	RE: John
    
    	Well, WhereTF have you been lately?
    
    	I gave Town and Country the "silent flip-off" by going half
    	on a brand new table, to avoid the $6/hour charge.  I think
    	it's more than paid for itself already, even at a $1300
    	cost [including delivery/installation].
    
    							GTI
    

  Hey Shawn,

>>    	were some great shooters there!!  And I'm talking "running
>>    	the table".  We played on a 3.5x7 table, which really screw-
>>    	ed me up ... since my table, and most tables I play on, are

FWIW, here's a couple of ideas on how to get a jump on the other guys on
the smaller table:

- Play a few frames on your own before the next tourney and practice leaving 
  the cue ball flush against the rail at the end of your shot.  Don't forget
  that the furthest that you can leave your opponent away from his object ball
  is only 8 feet instead of about 8.5 feet on the 4x8 table, so best to 
  force him to shoot from the rail in order to make it as tough as possible.

- Start the frame by taking a crack at one of your most difficult shots
  instead of those hanging over the pockets, but don't risk disturbing your
  opponents balls and placing them in a nice position...  Make sure that your
  weight is *perfect*, so that if you miss (which you probably will since 
  you've picked a hard shot) your ball stays around the pocket.  After two or
  three shots you can cut in half the number of pockets that your opponent can
  shoot at!

- If you leave yourself in a spot where you have only one or two balls left 
  plus the back and your opponent still has five or six, forget it.  On a tiny
  table like that there's so many things in the way you'll be lucky to hit one
  of yours, let alone sink it!  So, what ya gotta do is go for his throat when
  you each have, say, 3 to 5 balls left and win right there without giving him
  a chance.

Good luck!  Let us know what happens!  Mail my cut to me @GEO!

rick ellis

    
    	RE: Rick
    
    	Leaving the cue on the bank after I make my shot is a GREAT
    	idea if I plan on missing the object ball, but what if I'm
    	actually trying to get the thing in??  I mean, I don't try
    	to miss the shots on purpose.
    
    	So if I leave the cue ball on the bank after my shot, then
    	I'm making my next shot harder, instead of my opponent's.
    
    							GTI
    

>>    	actually trying to get the thing in??  I mean, I don't try
>>    	to miss the shots on purpose.

Ya, of course you don't try to miss them, but take a second to calculate if
you think you're gonna make it or not.  Then act based on that.
    
>>    	So if I leave the cue ball on the bank after my shot, then
>>    	I'm making my next shot harder, instead of my opponent's.

Turn it the other way around:  If you don't leave the cue ball in a difficult
position, then you're making your opponents shot easier.  It's not just a 
game of the-guy-who-shoots-best-wins, it's more a question of making your
offensive moves when the odds are best.  Pool/snooker are really heavy 
tactical games and certainly more psychological than they seem at first.   

Making your opponent shoot off of the rail 8 times out of 10 is something
like Chinese water torture - he'll just get frustrated after a while and do
something stupid.  Then you shoot his lights out!  :^{)

Reminds me of something I don't do any more but should:  Take a rack of balls
and put the cue ball against the rail on every shot!  Run off 50 racks like
that and you're bound to improve.

rick

    
    	RE: Rick
    
    	Alright, that makes sense.  But usually, I have a real good
    	feeling that I'll get the object ball in ... and I try and
    	set up the cue for MY next shot instead of my opponent's.
    	But your idea is pretty good ... I'll have to give it a try.
    
    							GTI
    

               <<< VAXWRK::$1$DUS6:[NOTES$LIBRARY]POOL.NOTE;1 >>>
================================================================================
Note 1.0                          Welcome note                        No replies
VAXWRK::SWARD "Common sense is not that common"      13 lines   9-NOV-1990 13:59
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Welcome to the Pool Conference!
    
    This conference is for pool players in the New England area.
    The main purpose is so that we can have a place to discuss the 
    various great games of pool and also the various pool halls 
    that now are springing up like mushrooms in the NE area.
    
    The normal rules for Notes conferences apply, that is, do the right thing.
    
    Peter