Conference 7.286::boston_celtics

	Same story, different night ...

	The Celtics lost a close one at New York last night, 109-107 ...

	Lets see, over the past couple of weeks they have lost by two
	to the Knicks (at NY), a close one at Atlanta, overtime at Orlando,
	a close one to 76ers, a close one to the Bullets ... anyone
	notice a pattern here? They scrap and claw and play hard, but they
	just can't get over the hump ...

	Gotta give this team credit, they are undermanned and undersized ...
	They have one of (if not the) worst record in the league ...

	Yet they come to play hard every night ... no matter what you say
	about ML Carr and his coaching/gm abilities, you gotta give him
	credit for getting the boys to play hard night in and night out, 
	especially with all these heart breaking losses mounting ...

	And you gotta give the players credit for busting their butts ...
	they know that this season is lost, and they know how hard it will
	be for them to win games with the lack of size they have, but they
	keep plugging away ... this is definately a team I can cheer for ...

	And, if we could just plug Tim Duncan in the middle of Walker and
	Williams ... Dino Radja off the bench ... Wesley and ??? in the
	backcourt ... I could see the playoffs on the horizon ... gotta
	stay positive ... the good times are even better when you are loyal
	through the tough times ... 

	Vinny

    Couz & T had a graphic up on the screen some time during the
    game lasted night. It showed that if the lottery was to be
    drawn right now, the C's would pick #2, so take any way you want
    but they don't have the worst record, and wouldn't pick #1 as
    yet.
    On the game last night, it was another "entertaining" game to watch
    for the most part. The Celtic lineup kept getting parts swapped
    in all night long to wear down the Knicks. Several time one got
    a closeup of Celtic players on the bench and they were huffing &
    puffing after a stint on the floor. It also seemed to be working
    as attested by the faces of some of the Knick players. 
    However the lack of a true go-to guy on the C's is what is keeping 
    them from winning the close ones.
    The C's also are still making real dumb decisions on shot selection.
    In particular, Todd _ay continues to show his skeels (or lack of
    mental skeels), with his shot selection at critical points in a game.
    One trip up the floor late in the game, someone kicked it out to
    Todd with lots of time left on the shot clock, instead of passing
    the ball back in to an open Conlon on the baseline, he heaves it
    up for a 3pt attempt that misses of course. Later in the 4th he
    gets another attempt at a 3-ptr with only seconds on the shot clock,
    and he throws it up and makes it. He in particular, (but there are
    others as guilty), has to learn to shoot smarter. Otherwise, I really
    don't wish to see him on this team next year. He's too much of a ball
    hog, who doesn't know how to play smart.
    
    On the injury newsfront. Dee Brown late in the 4th quarter was working
    the ball up the court, and was doing some cutting/dribbling back and
    forth to shake a defender, when apparently pushing off in what looked
    like a sideways direction on the replay they showed, hyper-extended
    his big toe on his right foot. He went immediately to the locker room,
    and then to a local hospital for precautionary x-rays.
    Also some time earlier in the game, Antoine Walker took an elbow
    to the nose, and Ed Lacerte was shown wiggling Antoine's nose back
    & forth checking for a broken nose. Couz & Tommy made mention of
    the roughness that the Knicks continue to use, several times during
    the game.
    Antoine continues to really impress me. He is constantly showing
    new moves. Most importantly, he may have finally turned the corner
    on his free-throw problems. Late in the game, he made 2 separate
    pairs of free throws, and you could see the real satisfaction on
    his face when he made the first of two shots. he's been working hard
    on this in practice, along with his outside shooting.
    There were a couple of times when working under the boards at the
    offensive end, he did a remarkable job of carving out space for
    himself against Ewing and Oakely, and making the basket or tip-in.
    His baseline moves also continue to improve. Eric Williams also
    deserves mention, as he also shows signs of not making as many
    mental mistakes as he was earlier in the season, probably because
    he's worked himself back into better shape.
    The running game is the only way that the Celtics can stay in the
    game. The Miami Heat game saw the Celtics definitely wearing down
    the Heat, and in particular Rony Seikaly who was really huffing
    & puffing as a running game isn't his style. :-)
    
     2
    b

>>    Couz & T had a graphic up on the screen some time during the
>>    game lasted night. It showed that if the lottery was to be
>>    drawn right now, the C's would pick #2, so take any way you want
>>    but they don't have the worst record, and wouldn't pick #1 as
>>    yet.
 
	Right now, the Celtics and Philly each have 8 wins, but the
	76ers have more losses, so they have a worse record than the
	Celtics ... but remember a couple things, this is a LOTTERY,
	so the worst record does not guarentee the number one pick,
	all non-playoff teams (except the Canadien franchises) have a
	weighted chance at getting the top pick ... and if the Mavericks
	don't make the playoffs, the Celtics get their chances
	as well ... 

	Just a hunch, but if the Celtics don't get the top pick, they
	will probably get the number three pick ... I predict that
	Vancouver will finish with the worst record (giving them the
	most chances for the top pick), but since they cannot win the
	lottery, they will get the number two pick ...

	Unfortunately, after Tim Duncan, I don't see any real franchise
	players out there this year ... its kinda like the Patrick Ewing
	draft ... number two gets Steve Stipanovich ...

                                                        2
	On the player front, I'll echo the opinions of b ...
	Walker is really impressing me, especially with his rebounding,
	ball handling (yeah, he makes rookie mistakes, but that is what
	this year is for - to gain experience) and hustle ... once he
	learns to settle down (he is a little hyper - in a good way)
	he will be an all-star ... and Williams has really come on
	lately ... after his slow start (because he was out of shape)
	he has turned into a solid contributor ... Wesley is the
	other key to this team, night in and night out he has shown that
	he is the leader of this team on the floor ... and I like
	Rick Fox, he is a consummate professional and a good team guy,
	hope he is still here when the C's turn the corner, he deserves it

	Dee Brown and Todd Day both run hot and cold ... one minute
	looking spectacular, the next minute like a CBAer ... Conlon
	is a journeyman who gives what he has ... Szabo gives a couple 
	minutes here and there ... the rest are injured ...

	Wow, not many players available! And I think that helps ML,
	he doesn't have many choices to make ... and the players know
	they will get minutes ...

>> The Miami Heat game saw the Celtics definitely wearing down
>> the Heat, and in particular Rony Seikaly who was really huffing
>> & puffing as a running game isn't his style. :-)
    
	Time warping again? :-) Rony plays for the other Florida team
	now, the Magic ... the Celtics get the Miami Heat (and Alonzo
	Mourning) this week ... too bad Isaac Austin (power forward,
	backup center for the Heat) didn't lose all the weight when
	he was in the Celtics camp ... we could use a banger like him
	now ...

	Vinny

    It's amazing to me that this team plays as hard as they do every game,
    despite being outsized at every position and having almost as many guys
    injured as they have available for a game.  They have 15 guys under
    contract, and for the last few games, only 8 of the 15 have been
    available to play.  I would wager that no other team in the league has
    this many injured players.
    
    While ML certainly is no Pat Riley, as someone else noted the team is
    playing hard for him, and there is definitely something to be said for
    that.  I would like them to pull out a few of these close games, just
    for the mental stability of the guys out there on the floor.
    
    NAZZ

    RE: .80 
    
    Ditto on that!
    
    RE: .79
    
    >     Time warping again? :-) Rony plays for the other Florida team
    >     now, the Magic ... the Celtics get the Miami Heat (and Alonzo
    
    Sheezz I don't believe I said Miami...yes I did. Yeah I must have 
    been time-warping big time. Yes, I did mean the Magic. :-)
    
     2
    b

Okay, so now if Couz and Tommy did their assessment the Celtics WOULD have
the worst record in the league!  Celts are .013 behind Philly now with the
loss to Miami and Philly's win over Toronto.  Also, as I understand
it the expansion teams can't have any of the first 3 picks.  Vancouver actually
has the worst record but can't pick any higher than 4th.  Can anyone else
verify this?  

Last night the Celts had only 6 healthy players!!!  What is going on here?
I don't know that I've ever seen an NBA team so depleated.  The starters were
Fox, 'ay, Wesley, Williams and Walker.  Szabo and a hobbled Lister came off
the bench.  I'm amazed that they only lost by 20!  Conlon hurt himself against
the Knicks and couldn't play but had to dress anyway because of an NBA rule
where a team must have a minimum of 8 players to start a game!  

I'm not even sure they can sign any more CBA players because you can only have
3 players on IR.  So, they can have 12 players on the active roster with 3
on IR for a total of 15.  They certainly want to keep Radja, Barros, Minor
Brown, Hamer and Ellison on the roster.  Brickowski should be healthy soon
and is probably better than anything they could get from the CBA at the 
Center
or Forward spot.  So, Radja, Hamer and Ellison would be your 3 IR people.
They can't bring in a CBA player without waiving one of the other 4!  They
could waive Szabo but that would be a 1 for 1 swap for someone who didn't
know the system.  And, after today, they'll have to pay Szabo for the remainder
of the season since his second 10-day contract is up.  

I don't think you can "blam" Carr for this and I don't see what he can do to get
out of it!

Dan

>> Also, as I understand it the expansion teams can't have any of the 
>> first 3 picks.  Vancouver actually has the worst record but can't 
>> pick any higher than 4th.  Can anyone else verify this?  

	Close ...

	The two most recent expansion teams cannot get the number one
	pick in the draft this year, they can get the second and/or
	third picks (like they did last year - Marcus Camby to Toronto,
	Shareef Abdur-Rahim to Vancouver) ...

	Also, only the top three picks are true "lottery" picks ... in the
	old "ping pong balls" terms ... the commish pulls a ping pong ball
	from the hat, that team gets the number one pick (provided it is
	not Toronto or Vancouver), then he pulls a second ball and a third
	ball ... after that, the teams are seeded in the reverse order of
	their finish ... so the worst record in the league is guarenteed
	to pick no less than fourth ...

	USA Today has a small piece on Celtic fans ... it appears that
	the majority of Celtic fans want the C's to play hard, keep
	the games close, and then lose so that the Celtics can get the
	top pick in the draft ... when they asked Rick Fox about this,
	he said he understood completely and if he were a fan, he would 
	probably think the same way ...

	Gotta give ML some credit for keeping this team motivated with
	all the injuries and losses mounting ... there may be a hidden 
	agenda there yet ... ML is being the company guy, guiding the team
	through the rough "deconstruction" phase ... taking all the
	criticism on himself and deflecting it from the players ... then 
	next year, with two high draft picks and some seasoning for 
	Walker, Williams and Wesley, ML steps aside for a new coach to 
	start the "rebuilding" process ...

	You gotta have faith ...

	Vinny

	btw - noticed a blurb in the Globe today ... did you know that
	the C's were out drawing the Heat in attendance?  Now, which
	team is in first place, and which team is in last place?

    
    I've had a chance to catch the better part of the last two Celtics
    games.  It's actually been my first sustained look at Antoine
    Walker.  Geez, can he play!  Too bad this team is overmatched at
    just about every other position.  Come on, lottery pick!
    
    Lou
    

    Wait til the Celtics get a decent center back from either the
    IR this year, or in the next year or so they can come up with
    a serviceable center, Walker will truely shine in the power
    forward spot. Hell, he's doing what he's doing now while playing
    the center spot against guys he shouldn't have to be spotted
    against. He's doing a remarkable job of carving out real-estate
    against biger & stronger guys.
    
    BTW wasn't it Golden State a couple/few years ago that had half
    their lineup on the IR? It was a couple of years or so before they
    self-destructed when Nellie was the coach.
    I think Atlanta had a year where players were falling like flies
    back in the late 80's. But this Celtic year has to be the worst
    I can ever remember it for injuries.
    Last night, it looked like the Heat actually felt sorry for them
    and backed off a little. :-)
    
     2
    b
    

	The agony and the ecstacy ...

	On Friday night the Celtics came back from a 23 point defecit
	to defeat the Portland TrailBlazers ... it was one of the most
	enjoyable Celtic games in recent memory ... the team played hard,
	they played well, and they WON!

	Rick Fox was absolutely immense ... he played one of the best
	games of his career ... 32 points, 5 of 6 on threes, 6 steals ...
	he did it all ...

	Other little tid bits ... Steve Hamer, the Celtics second round
	draft pick, made his professional debut ... he was sucking some
	serious wind after just a few minutes of action ... guess he
	didn't peddle that bicycle enough! :-)

	For Portland, wow, what a front line ... even with Sabonis and 
	Wallace out ... Dontonio Wingfield was a rock down low, Gary Trent
	played like a mini Karl Malone, Jermaine O'Neil is a very
	active youngster and Cliff Robinson ... with Kenny Anderson and 
	Isiah Rider in the backcourt, this team has lots of talent (but,
	they may be lacking in basketball smarts) ...

	Then, after all that positive energy from Friday night, they 
	pull a real stinker on Sunday night, losing to the Vancouver
	Grizzlies - who had lost 8 in a row and 18 of their last 20 ...

	Uggghhhh! They couldn't slow down 'Big Country' Reeves, they
	couldn't contain Sharif Abdur-Rahim, and they made Roy Rogers
	look like the next Bill Russell (shot blocking and rebounding) ...

	Vancouver is one of the worst defensive teams in the league, yet 
	the Celtics had a terrible shooting percentage and turned the
	ball over ... they also got crushed on the boards ... 

	Gotta look at the bright side, this game improves their chances to 
	land Tim Duncan ... on to Toronto tonight ...

	Vinny
	

    Last night was depressing.
    
    Vancouver's front line:  7-0, 6-10, 6-10
    Boston's front line:  6-8, 6-8, 6-6
    
    Is it any wonder Big Country, Shareef, and Roy Rogers had a field day
    against the Celtics?  I also noticed David Wesley hit the preverbial
    wall lasted night, having to ask to come out of the game once and
    having ML sub for him a couple of other times, leaving a backcourt of
    Rick Fox and Todd Day.  ARGH!!!
    
    Seems to me the Celtics should go after some CBA point guard, just to
    give Wesley a bit of a breather, especially since after this Wednesday
    night, the Celtics go on a nine game road trip.
    
    NAZZ
    
    

    I recall reading in the paper earlier this winter something to 
    the affect that "Thanks Dad" evoked some kind of moratorium on
    the Celtic's scouts from taking road trips to scout out draft picks
    or for that matter CBA material, all in the name of saving some 
    pocket change. I think this is going to hurt the Celtics in the
    long run. "Thanks Dad" has got to let out the reigns enough to
    let these guys do their jobs. Not being able to scout the prospects
    in a deliberate methodical and cost effective fashion is not going
    to cut it in the NBA. Allowing the Celtic scouts to only watch
    video is not an effective way for a professional sports team to go
    about their business of looking for grass-roots talent.
    
     2
    b

	I don't think the Celtics lack of signing a back up point guard
	is a monetary issue or a scouting issue ... I think it is an NBA
	issue ...

	You are only allowed to have 12 signed players, plus 2 more on 
	injured reserve ... the Celtics have already received a special 
	OK from the league to have an extra player on injured reserve ...
	so they have 15 playrs under contract ... unless they get another
	exception from the league, they cannot sign another player ...

	They have basically chosen to have Brett Szabo on the bench
	instead of a backup point guard ... my guess, is that they
	think either Dana Barros or Dee Brown will return from injury
	before any of their injured big men ...

	So, we have ...
	(playing) David Wesley, Todd Day, Rick Fox, Eric Williams,
		  Antoine Walker, Marty Conlon, Alton Lister, Steve Hamer,
		  Bret Szabo

	(injured) Dee Brown, Dana Barros, Greg Minor

	(surgery) Frank Brickowski, Dino Radja, Pervis Ellison

	
	Vinny

	btw - Unlike Nazz, I hope that Rick Fox stays with the team, 
	I like his hustle, drive and professionalism, he brings good 
	things to the team ... 

>>	I don't think the Celtics lack of signing a back up point guard
>>	is a monetary issue or a scouting issue ... I think it is an NBA
>>	issue ...

That's what I was saying in .82.  They'd have to waive one of the existing
players who's probably better than what you'd get from the CBA.  
BTW, what roster move did they make to bring Hamer up?  I didn't see that.
The only thing I could think of was that they took him off IR and put either
Brown, Minor or Barros on IR.  

Nazz, in your scenario, I think Fox would move to shooting guard as a backup
to Minor.  Fox can certainly hit an open jumper and I think he has some of
the quickest hands on the team (for stealing a ball in the post).  Yea, I 
know, Michael Smith moved well without the ball, too, and what good did that
do!

In general, I don't think you can use this season to judge ANY of the
current Celtics players because all of them, aside from Wesley, are playing
out of position!

Dan

	Lose at home to Vancouver ... then win on the road 
	at Toronto the next night ... as the Grateful Dead 
	said "What a long strange trip its been" ...

	The Celtics are now tied in the win column (11) with two
	other clubs, a couple games ahead of the Grizzlies ...
	if they continue on this torrid pace (two wins in their 
	last three games) they will lose any chance they had of 
	getting the top pick (tongue firmly in cheek with that 
	last comment) ... the good news for the lottery watchers 
	is that San Antonio (one of the teams that also has
	eleven victories) will be getting David Robinson back 
	after the All-Star game ...

	Eric Williams set a career high in points scored (27),
	David Wesley kept 'Mighty Mouse' (Damon Stoudamire) in
	check (he really had to work for his 26 points, and David
	stole the ball from him on multiple occasions), and the 
	rest of the team finally showed up in the fourth quarter
	to wrestle the win from the Huskies (it was throwback
	uniform night) ...

	Opposition players of note: where was Marcus Camby? He
	had one big time block and one monster jam (which were
	probably shown on every local sportscast), but otherwise,
	he was pretty invisable ... Sharif Abdur-Rahim was much
	more impressive the night before ... not trying to be a 
	Camby basher, but what is going on with Marcus? I know
	he has suffered through lots of injuries, but he doesn't
	seem to have settled into the NBA yet and the other rookies
	seem to be having more of a positive impact on their teams
	(Iverson, Abdur-Rahim, Marbury, Walker) ... the only one
	I can't speak of that was drafted high is Ray Allen, and he
	is playing with two potential all-stars in Baker & Robinson 
	so his stats should be lower ... 

	Vinny

    I guess it depends on what you're looking for/at.  Camby was 6-16 but
    he missed some bunnies.  He ended up with 6 fouls, the last with < a
    minute but the ones I saw were rookie fouls.  This is just a passage of
    time thing, something the nba refs have instituted for virtually all
    rookies.
    
    The strength of Camby is his height/speed/ability combination.  Also a
    unique ability to make the big play which will be eventually very
    important when the Rockets can force close games.  Personally any
    offensive disappointment was far outweighed by the way Camby can play
    the game.  This would be far more important in the playoffs than
    regular season.
    
    The nba long ago made a decision that it was an entertainment business
    first and sport second.  Therefore you have the anomoly of a Karl
    Malone being a successful star and Camby apparently struggling whereas
    on neutral ground Camby can play rings around Malone but in the sport
    of basketball not the business of nba hoopla.

    Is anybody else getting sick and damned tired of watching
    Todd <glare>"what did I do?" _ay, on every whistle, turn
    around, glare at a ref, all indignant, as if he could never
    possibly commit a foul, or any other type of rule infraction?
    I know I am! Good grief! Every frigging game I watch *he*
    does *nothing* worthwhile with his incessant scowling, and glaring
    at referee's just trying to do their jobs. Todd *really* ought to
    look at some of the video for Celtic games, and see how *truely*
    silly and asinine he looks when he *repeatedly* does this for the
    duration of the time he is on the floor. Another pet peeve (while
    I'm on a role here), is when Todd is up at the defensive end of the
    floor after an opponent has scored, and it's just him and one other
    Celtic player, *and* he is the closest to the ball, he seems to go *out*
    of his way to avoid being the one to in-bounds the ball. Meanwhile
    the other team gets plenty of opportunity to get back into position
    on defense. Todd exemplifies a very lazy, immature player, and in 
    addition has no true understanding of what "smart shot selection"
    means. Although he seems just thrilled to want to only play one
    way (don't bother flipping a coin when deciding between offense
    and defense), he makes absolutely no effort to learn even half-arsed
    well how to play smart offense! Pass the ball to possibly get a
    higher percentage shot?
    Unfortunately, until more warm bodies get back from the IR, Todd
    will continue to get far more minutes than he deserves IMVHO of
    course!
    
    
    Wew! Now I feel much better. That ought to last me the rest of the
    season. :-)
    
     2
    b

>>    I guess it depends on what you're looking for/at.  Camby was 6-16 but
>>    he missed some bunnies.  He ended up with 6 fouls, the last with < a
>>    minute but the ones I saw were rookie fouls.  This is just a passage of
>>    time thing, something the nba refs have instituted for virtually all
>>    rookies.

	I am not looking for anything in Camby, just doing a little
	comparison of his play against *his fellow rookies* ... that
	should be a fair comparison ... and was pretty easy this past
	week since we got to see Camby, Iverson, and Abdul-Rahim 
	all play against fellow rookie Antoine Walker and the Celtics ...

	What I saw was Iverson dominate a game from the point position,
	when he was "on" he was blowing by Wesley ... he has *a lot* to 
	learn (shot selection would help) but you can see that he has the
	skills to play the pro game ... Abdul-Rahim has a strong offensive
	game, with a variety of moves and a nice jump shot, he will be
	an offensive force in the league as he matures ... Walker has
	shown a lot this year, especially on the boards and with his ball 
	handling ... Camby on the other hand, didn't show me anything
	special - he had some nice blocks when he helped out from the
	weak side, but most of his offense was put backs or easy hoops
	when Stoudamire dribbled in and dished off (look at the stats for
	Slater? and Jones, very similar to Camby) ... I don't recall 
	Marcus creating anything on offense on his own, either by dribbling 
	or spotting up for jumpers ... this isn't meant to be critical,
	just observation ... but either through the coaching or his play, 
	Marcus isn't showing anything special in the NBA yet ... not 
	enough to warrant the hype and praise some of the media (like
	Bob Ryan) heaped upon him before the draft ...
	
	Vinny

    Methinks you're looking at Marcus through BC-tinted glasses, Vinny!
    
    Camby runs the floor extremely well, can hit the 15' jumper, leads all
    rookies in blocks, and provides severe matchup problems for many teams.
    He definitely needs to get stronger, but as far as rookies go, he's
    just about where he should be.  Remember, you saw Abdur-Rahim on a
    very good night for him and an extremely poor one for the Celtics.  As
    a guy who owns Shareef on his DRIBBLE team, I can tell you that he has
    not been a great scorer or rebounder so far this year.  He's had a lot
    of 2-11 and 3-14 nights.  He does get to the line a lot, though.
    
    NAZZ

>>    Methinks you're looking at Marcus through BC-tinted glasses, Vinny!
  
	Not me ... :-)

	Seriously, I just don't see anything special in Marcus Camby's
	game ... nothing that warrants Bob Ryans gushing article last 
	year or one particular noters Bill Russell comparison ... yeah, 
	he blocks a fair amount of shots, but he isn't rebounding that 
	great, he isn't scoring that much, and he doesn't create his 
	own shot ... most of his offense is coming from lay downs from 
	Stoudamire (heck, CBAer Slater scored MORE than Marcus against the
	Celtics) ... personally, I think that at his best Marcus can be 
	a Larry Nance, and there is nothing wrong with that - an all-star 
	caliber player who runs the floor well and blocks a lot of shots 
	from the "small" forward position ... at his worst he is Brad 
	Sellers ... more than likely he will fall somewhere in between ...
	if he stays healthy ... for someone so young and athletic, he 
	sure has had lots of mysterious injuries ...

	A question: when Marcus played at UMass, did he play with his
	back the basket on offense (like a low post center) or did he 
	face up to the hoop (like a small forward)? And, has he had to
	change his game for the pros?

	And, as for my BC glasses, yeah, I root for them, but I don't
	let that cloud my judgement ... and to prove it, I will state
	that Danya Abrams will NOT do anything in the NBA ... he has a
	wide body and plays a solid low post game, but he plays below
	the rim and is not exactly fleet of foot ... Charles Barkley
	he ain't ...

	Vinny - who thinks Antoine Walker will be a better pro than Marcus
	        based on his rebounding and ball handling ...

    My comparison of Camby with Russell had to do with speed up and down
    the court for a big man and defensive quickness and shot blocking
    ability.  By the 60s Russell was doing a lot of walking but early in
    his career he'd start a fast break and end up finishing as the trailer.
    
    Camby is not even being used as the 3rd option by Toronto.  Although he
    played a lot of back to the basket with UMass he also played a little
    outside with Weeks in the middle.
    
    Barring injury you are going to see Toronto in some big playoff games
    in a few years and Mr. Camby will be the key.  To say Antoine Walker
    will remind folks of Dominque Wilkins would be a high compliment in
    some venues but not what Boston fans are hoping.
    
    ML Carr could and would swap Antoine right now for Camby in a hearbeat
    but Toronto wouldn't dream of making that deal.  I doubt they'd Camby
    for anyone in the league.  I thought in terms of "player" Camby looked
    much better than Walker the other night.

    Last year, Marcus played mostly low post.  And the offense didn't
    necessarily run through him.  He got a lot of his points on the break
    and on follow-ups.  He developed a nice turnaround on the baseline
    and could pop out and take that foul line jumper like Tyrone Weeks does
    this year.
    
    I think it was me a couple of years ago who first made the Marcus
    Camby/Larry Nance analogy, and I think it still fits.  Marcus is in a
    good situation in Toronto with a guy like Popeye to do the dirty work,
    so Marcus can do what he does best - run the floor, shoot jumpers, tip
    in rebounds, and block shots.
    
    NAZZ

	1996 FIRST ROUND ROOKIE STATS, AS OF FEBRUARY 3, 1997

 # Player       Min   FG FGA PCT 3pt 3pa PCT  FT FTA PCT REB AST  TO ST BL  AVE
 1 Iverson, PH  1568 311 771 .39  78 247 .31 216 316 .68 170 282 190 90 16 22.9
 2 Camby, TOR    741 145 296 .49   1   9 .11  76 110 .69 148  33  53 32 58 13.1
 3 A-Rahim, VAN 1596 302 685 .44   0  13 .00 212 288 .74 304  86 113 49 50 17.0
 4 Marbury, MN  1080 181 443 .41  56 150 .36 115 157 .73  84 235  97 33 10 16.2 
 5 Allen, MIL   1376 206 481 .42  60 153 .38  99 128 .77 180 120  81 46  4 12.7
 6 Walker, BOS  1360 256 584 .44  11  44 .25 104 187 .56 353  94 102 49 27 14.6
 7 Wright, LAC   756  94 209 .45   1   3 .33  36  65 .55 173  19  31 21 14  5.6
 8 Kittles, NJ  1717 255 616 .41  80 222 .36  87 115 .76 169 140  71 89 16 15.4
 9 Walker, DAL   266  44  96 .45   0   0 ---  20  37 .54  67   8  18  7 11  5.4
10 Dampier, IND  695  87 222 .39   0   0 ---  67 100 .67 191  30  58 13 56  6.2
13 Bryant, LAL   528  87 206 .42  25  69 .36  64  80 .80  72  40  61 22 16  7.1
15 Nash, PHO     569  62 143 .43  19  47 .40  40  49 .82  50 118  54 19  0  4.6
18 Wallace, NY   574  85 168 .51   1   3 .33  56  79 .70 108  29  56 18 21  5.5
22 Rogers, VAN   952 142 282 .50   0   0 ---  29  50 .58 209  20  49 11 99  6.4
29 Knight, LAL   568  66 130 .51   0   0 ---  27  50 .54 163  21  24 13 29  4.1

NOTE:  11 Todd Fuller GSW, 12 Vitaly Potpenko CLE, 16 Tony Delk CHA, 
17 Jermaine O'Neal POR and 24 Derek Fisher (LAL) are playing but have not 
accumulated enough playing time to warrant their inclusion here.  
19 Walter McCarty NYK, 25 Martin Muursepp MIA, 26 Jerome Williams DET,
27 Brian Evans ORL, and 28 Priest Lauderdale ATL have received very little PT.
14 Predrag Stojakovic and 23 Efthimus Rantzius are playing in Europe.  
20 Zydrunas Ilgauskas CLE and 21 Dontae Jones NYK are injured, out for the year.




    

    Top five rookies in each category:
    
    Minutes      FG%         3PT%        FT%         Rebounds      Assists 
    1 Kittles    1 Wallace   1 Nash      1 Nash      1 A. Walker   1 Iverson
    2 A-Rahim    2 Knight    2 Allen     2 Bryant    2 A-Rahim     2 Marbury
    3 Iverson    3 Rogers    3 Kittles   3 Allen     3 Rogers      3 Kittles
    4 Allen      4 Camby     4 Marbury   4 Kittles   4 Dampier     4 Allen
    5 A Walker   5 Wright    5 Bryant    5 A-Rahim   5 Allen       5 Nash
    
    
    Turnovers    Steals      Blocks      Points/Game
    1 Iverson    1 Iverson   1 Rogers    1 Iverson
    2 A-Rahim    2 Kittles   2 Camby     2 A-Rahim
    3 A Walker   3 A-Rahim   3 Dampier   3 Marbury
    4 Marbury      A Walker  4 A-Rahim   4 Kittles
    5 Allen      5 Allen     5 Knight    5 A Walker
    
    NAZZ

	I read that the Celtics signed some CBA point guard, 
	Michael Hawkins (?) to a 10 day contract ...

	What roster move did they make to clear room for this guy?

	Also, Dana Barros had surgery on his ankle (bone spurs)
	and will be out 8-10 weeeks recovering ... (did this allow
	the C's to place him on IR as well?) ...

	The infamous west coast road trip starts tonight in Clipperland ...

	Vinny

	btw - anyone see the rookie all-star game Saturday night? I read
	that Iverson got the game MVP, that Kobe Bryant scored 31 points
	and that both Antoine Walker and Marcus Camby put up some decent
	numbers ...

The current roster according to ESPNET.SPORTSZONE shows 4 players on IR.  I
didn't think they could do that.  Maybe something opens up during the second
half of the season. 

Injured Reserve:
	Radja, Barros, Brickowski, Ellison

Roster Players:
	Wesley, Fox, Walker, Williams, Day, Minor, 
	Brown, Conlon, Lister, Szabo, Hamer, Hawkins

That's 16 total.

Regarding the rookie game, Walker had 20 points to lead the East.  Bryant's
31 lead the West and he also won a pretty lame Slam Dunk contest.  Kerr
won the 3-pt. contest.

Dan

    The Celtics asked for and received from the league an exemption that
    allowed them to place a 4th player on IR.
    
    NAZZ

From a USA Today review of the NBA by David Dupree, in which he had the
Celtics rated at 27 outta 29, ahead of Philly and Vancouver: 

27. Boston Celtics

MVP:			Antoine Walker - The present and the future rest
			with him. He's versatile, eager and improving by
			the game. 

Key Concern:		Are the Celtics' fans going to stick it out?

Most telling stat:	NBA worst 2-18 on the road.

First-half grade:	(F) they seem to be floundering with
			little direction.

>> 27. Boston Celtics
>> MVP:			Antoine Walker - The present and the future rest
>>			with him. He's versatile, eager and improving by
>>			the game. 

	While I agree that Antoine Walker is a BIG part of the
	Celtics future, I think that for this year, David Wesley
	is the team MVP ... he controls the entire C's offense
	from the point guard spot, when he is off the floor they
	look really lost ...

>> Key Concern:		Are the Celtics' fans going to stick it out?

	Yes. I saw a stat the other day that showed the Celtics
	with better attendance figures than the first place Miami Heat ...

	I bet that lots of Celtics fans are actually happy the team is 
	bottoming out, they would prefer a very high draft pick over
	a low lottery or "first round and out" playoffs run ...

>> Most telling stat:	NBA worst 2-18 on the road.

>> First-half grade:	(F) they seem to be floundering with
>>			little direction.

	Gotta be optomistic ... ML does have a master plan, he is in
	charge of deconstruction ... he is tearing the team down, 
	Antoine Walker and Eric Williams are getting loads of playing
	time and the team will be adding two lottery picks next season,
	thats when ML acts as the ultimate company guy and steps aside
	for the coach who will "rebuild" the team ...

	In order for this plan to work perfectly all the C's have to do
	is (1) resign David Wesley (2) win the lottery :-) and 
	(3) use the two draft picks properly ... then its Duncan vs Shaq
	in the NBA finals in 99!

	Vinny

	btw - thanks for the Michael Hawkins answer, now, what happened to
	Eric Williams last night? He wasn't in the lineup ...

    Vinny,
    williams was sent home to be checked out for feeling faint. There
    checking his heart.
    
    Mike

I caught a glimpse of ML missing a shot from the courtside. Airball,
baby!~.

TTom

    The new kid from the CBA had a really nice game last night - 14 points
    in 17 minutes.  I know nothing about him at all, but it's nice to see
    he can really make a contribution.
    
    NAZZ

Shaq will miss the nexted 8-10 weeks. Just as he came back from one knee
injury, he hyper extended the other and did a buncha damage to the knee
and ligaments.

TTom

	Well, what can you say about the current Celtics road trip?

	They have lost to Sacramento, LA Clippers, Phoenix, Vancouver
	and Portland ... ouch ... and they have Seattle next ... 

	On the bright side, Eric Williams is back with the club with
	a clean bill of health ... nice to see that the Celtics aren't
	taking any chances with their players ...

	Also, in the good news department, thank you Don Nelson!
	The new Mavericks GM traded Jamaal Mashburn to the Miami Heat
	for Sasha Danilovic, Martin Muursepp, and Kurt Thomas.
	Sasha plays two-guard (same position as Jimmy Jackson), 
	Muursepp is an untested rookie, and Thomas is injured ... 
	this will (hopefully) assist the Celtics draft pick position ...

	btw - a Dallas newspaper gave its mid-term grades to the
	Mavericks ... Eric Montross got an "F" ... his low point and
	low rebounding numbers not being worth the price they paid
	to get him ...

	In the rumor department ... the Lakers and Pacers are supposedly
	interested in Rick Fox ... LA offering Sean Rooks, Indiana
	offering Eric Dampier ... I would DEFINATELY stay away from Rooks,
	but Dampier makes me think a little ... he would start for the
	Celtics this season, and could be a good backup if the C's
	landed Tim Duncan ...

	Also in the rumor (bad news) department ... it looks like
	David Wesley wants to test the free agent market ... I like
	David and think he is a good fit for the Celtics ... I hope
	he stays with Boston (at a reasonable price) ... but after
	what the likes of Kenny Anderson and Chris Childs got in 
	free agency, I am nervous ...

	Vinny

>        David Wesley wants to test the free agent market ...

I'm refering this to Bob Bass and the Charlotte Hornets.

TTom

	Another road game ... another loss ...

	Chris Mullin posted a triple-double and Latrell Sprewell 
	scored 40+ points to lead the Golden State Warriors past
	the Celtics Wednesday night ... it was the C's seventh
	consecutive road loss ... two more games to go on their
	season long nine game road trip ...

	Quick hitters:

	- today (6:00 pm) is the NBA trading deadline

	- Mullin is rumored to be on the block, last night could have been
	  his farewell game for Golden State ... Chris tied the team
	  record for games played last night ...

	- this road trip has made it *painfully* obvious that the Celtics
	  second biggest need (after Tim Duncan at center :-)) is a BIG
	  two guard who can defend ... look what Rider, Sprewell, Person
	  Richmond etc. have done to the Celtics ... uggghhh ...

	- my new dream draft scenario has the Celtics getting Tim Duncan
	  (center) and Ron Mercer of Kentucky ... could he handle the 
	  two guard spot instead of small forward??

	- the huge Dallas / New Jersey trade is on hold ... Khalid Reeves
	  has a possible heart murmur and may not pass his physical ...

	- Andrew DeClerq looked good for the Warriors last night ... I wanted
	  the Celtics to grab him in the second round two years ago, instead
	  Boston got Junior Burrough :-(

	- looks like Philly and San Antonio has the prime competition
	  for the worst record in the league ... I still think the Spurs 
	  are milking the David Robinson injury ... he went out on 12/23
	  and was supposed to be out six weeks ... its been eight weeks ...

	Vinny

The only rumored trade that the Hornets are supposedly involved with is
shopping Scott Burrell around to see what they can get, hopefully at the
point guard.

He had been rumored for some deal with Sam Cassells which still might
happen even though ol' Sam is now in New Jersey.

TTom

>> He had been rumored for some deal with Sam Cassells which still might
>> happen even though ol' Sam is now in New Jersey.

	Unless New Jersey has another deal planned, I can't see this 
	happening ... the Nets are loaded at the two and three spots
	with Gill, Kittles, Jackson, McCloud, Williams ... but they
	only have Cassell for the point (now that Pack and Reeves
	are - supposedly - off to Dallas) ... 

	And no, you can't have David Wesley ... 

	Vinny

	btw - speaking of David, anyone else notice that his production
	has severly slipped on this West Coast trip? Is it the large
	number of minutes he has been forced to play? Or is it the
	competition (Kenny Anderson, Kevin Johnson, etc)?

    How many people have gotten triple-doubles against Boston this year?
    KJ did it in the first half last week and Ainge said Larry Bird is 
    the only other person he has seen do that.

Just read the local rag and they're rumor monderging about a real
barn-burner of a trade:

	George Zidek to the Clippers for Dwayne Schintzius

Big George gets to go back home and ol' Dwayne is reunited with Cowens.

In terms of the cap, it would help the Bugs but I don't know if'n that's
a good enough reason to bring that stiff to town.

TTom

    
    
       Back home?
    
       Isn't Zidek from Poland???

Actually he's from Czechoslovakia by way of UCLA.

TTom

re: Dallas - New Jersey deal

It's back on. Evidently, Reeves passed his physical or at least so says
Sprotszone.

TTom

    Rumor I heard was that the Cavs desperately want Jackson and are
    willing to part with Phoenix's #1 pick and Bobby Sura.  If I were
    the Nets, I do that in a minute.
    
    Another Net rumor I heard is that Cal wants to try Kittles for at least
    part of games at PG and use Cassell as a third guard.
    
    NAZZ

    Jackson would be good for Cleveland too from a marketing standpoint.

Wail, I guess you could say that they helpd themselves a bit. 

Too much Tim Richmond and Olden Polynice.

TTom

    That's Mitch Richmond, of course.
    
    Seemsd ta me that after a fella has hit three straight 3-pointers, you
    wouldn't go double down on Michael Smith to leave him wide open to hit
    another 3, but what do I know?
    
    NAZZ

	Ouch.

	Friday nights loss at the FleetCenter to the Pistons had
	to be the most painful of the season ... and this has been
	a very painful season ...

	The Celtics played the Pistons tough for the whole game, and
	when Rick Fox hit a little two foot putback with .3 seconds
	to go, it looked like the Celtics 11 game losing streak
	would be over with ... but it wasn't meant to be ... Grant Hill
	threw a perfect alley hoop pass to Lindsay Hunter (?!?) 
	allowing Detroit to tie the game ... then they went on to win
	in OT ...

	On the final play of the game, it was the Celtics two young guns
	who got burned, Walker and Williams, Hunter used a screen from
	Terry Mills to pop out behind the three point arc, Williams chased
	him, Hunter cut back to the hoop, Williams couldn't get back
	fast enough and Walker didn't switch ... hopefully, they will
	learn from this ...

	On Saturday, the flat Celtics lost a yawner (does Cleveland play any
	other kind of game?) to the Cavs ... thirteen losses in a row,
	tieing a team record for futility ... the Celtics try to snap the
	streak this afternoon at Toronto (the last team the Celtics beat) ...

	A couple non-Celtic lottery related notes:

	- the Spurs have lost Dominique Wilkins to a hamstring injury,
	  they will definatley vie with the C's and the Grizzlies for
	  the worst record in the NBA ... and I don't expect to see
	  David Robinson in uniform any time soon ...

	- the Mavs are playing hard, but fortunately, they are still
	  losing (thanks Danny Ainge!) ... hopefully, once the adrenaline
	  from the post trade shake up settles down, and the losses
	  continue to mount, they will lose even more ... New Jersey
	  (and possibly Denver) still have good shots to pass them in the
	  standings ... 

	Vinny

    I haven't been that disappointed in a loss in a long, long time.  That
    was as depressed as I've been after a game since the Reggie Lewis era.
    To have played as well as the Celts did, against a team as strong as
    the Pistons, to get the lead with only 0.00:3 left on the clock, and to
    allow an alley oop layup just ripped my heart out.
    
    I have absolutely no idea what Eric Williams was thinking when he
    followed Hunter beyond the foul line.  He must have known the time, and
    known what you can an cannot do with that little time left.  Yet he
    stupidly chases Hunter out past the foul line, then gets hung up to dry
    when Hill passed him the ball.  Steve Hamer was no help on the
    inbounds pass, as he stopped waving his arms for some reason just
    before Hill made the pass.  One deflection and the game was over.
    
    And the sellout crowd (4th of the season) was really into the game. 
    They were loud for the entire 4th quarter, and not too many of them
    were thinking of lottery picks when (B)Rick Fox made the layup.
    
    NAZZ

	And the streak is over ...

	For the third time this season and the second time north of
	the border, the Celtics defeated the Toronto Raptors ... 
	ending their franchise long losing streak of 13 games ...

	Todd Day led the C's with 27 points ... but still made a 
	bonehead play in the final minutes (stupid foul) ...

	Walker had 21 points and 10 rebounds, Williams chipped in
	with 20 points ... Wesley played all 48 minutes and Fox only
	sat out a minute and a half ...

	The C's are now a game ahead of Vancouver for worst record in
	the NBA, and only one game behind the Spurs ... the Tim Duncan
	hopefuls are getting anxious ...

	In other lottery news, the Nets dropped a road game to the
	Kings, missing a chance to gain ground on the Mavericks ...

	And the Mavs have a rough stretch ahead of them, lots of
	games against playoff teams, and lots of games on the road ...
	They have already completed the "easy" part of their schedule ...

	Vinny

	

The Bugs should beat San Antonio tonight.

TTom

>>                            -< trying to help ;-] >-
>> The Bugs should beat San Antonio tonight.
>> TTom

	Hopefully the KOD will work, but I doubt it ... just read
	this on the USA Today page ... hate to say it, but looks
	like I was right, don't count on the Admiral returning to
	save the Spurs ...

	Vinny


Spurs try to pick up the pieces

Some frustrated fans are starting to refer to them as the Sorrytonio Spurs. 

That's the kind of season it has been for San Antonio. The Spurs, who won 59 
games last season, fourth most in the league, are a dismal 13-44. Only Boston 
and Vancouver have fewer wins. An endless series of injuries, mostly to
key players, has left the Spurs in a jangle-less heap: 

     Star David Robinson (fractured foot and strained back) already has missed 
     51 games, and it's uncertain when or if he'll return this season. 
     Sean Elliott is out for the season (knee surgery) after playing in only 39 
     games. 
     Chuck Person (back surgery) hasn't played this season. 
     Charles Smith has played in only four games (arthritic knee) and his 
     return also is uncertain. 

Robinson, of course, is the key. 

''It's at least a couple of weeks before David gets cleared to do anything on 
that foot, as far as on-the-court
activities, and at that point the main concern will be his back,'' coach and 
general manager Gregg Popovich says. 

''So it's going to be well into March before we are able to even evaluate the 
situation. In short, his return isn't
imminent. What I'm concerned is that he is healthy. If that isn't until next 
year, fine.'' 

No Robinson means points are scarce. The Spurs are coming off their two-lowest 
totals of the season - 73 in a loss
at Orlando Friday and 72 in a loss to Miami Sunday - and have lost five in a 
row. 

They had another five-game skid earlier this season, along with two six-game 
losing streaks and a seven-gamer. 

The wins might not be forthcoming, but the injuries are. The latest casualty is 
leading scorer Dominique Wilkins,
who strained his right hamstring Friday and will miss at least four games. The 
Spurs play at Charlotte tonight. 

''The team is still in its prime, and it's no time to panic,'' Popovich says. 
''It's just one of those years where we're
going to have a real hard time. I think the guys are dealing with it the best 
they can.'' 

The Spurs hope history will repeat itself in one respect. They made Robinson 
the first pick in the 1987 draft, even
though he had to sit out two seasons while serving a military commitment. 

The Spurs won only 21 games in the 1988-89 season and ended up with the third 
pick in the draft. They took
Elliott. He and Robinson were rookies in 1990-91, the Spurs won 56 games and 
they haven't had a losing season since, until now. 

They almost are guaranteed a top pick this year. Expansion teams Vancouver and 
Toronto are ineligible to get the
first pick, so the Spurs have a shot at Wake Forest center Tim Duncan. Utah's 
Keith Van Horn and Kentucky's
Ron Mercer also are franchise-type players who would go nicely with a returning 
Robinson, Elliott and Person. 

That certainly would turn things around again in a hurry. 

>>	Todd Day led the C's with 27 points ... but still made a 
>>	bonehead play in the final minutes (stupid foul) ...

I was listening to the game on the way home last night and Max was really
giving it to Day.  Day had the ball on a fast break and stopped for a 3-pointer.
Max yelled, "Oh, that's a horrible shot!"  And he added, "I'd have his butt
on the bench after a shot like that!  Maybe that's why I'm sitting here and not
coaching anymore."

>> the Admiral...

Well, I remember when Bird had his heel surgury and was out most of the year.
I was really hoping that he'd sit out the entire season to avoid further injury.
But if I remember correctly, he came back for the playoffs and the C's didn't
make it past the second round.  Similar situation with Robinson.  Obviously,
the Spurs fans are hoping he waits till November.

Dan

    It's interesting to see how the Celtics do play hard every night,
    despite their injuries, and the Spurs, with similar injuries, have made
    almost no pretense of the fact that they are tanking the season.  I
    would be surprised if the Spurs win five more games the rest of this
    season.
    
    NAZZ 

	Same story, different arena ...

	The Celtics play hard, the Celtics play well enough to win,
	but they lose on the road (yet again) ... this time at
	Indiana ...

	Last time in Indiana it took a last second shot by Reggie Miller
	to sink the Celtics ... this time it was Mark Jackson making
	his free throws down the stretch ... not nearly as painful,
	but still depressing ... no matter how much my head says
	"losing is good for lottery position", my heart still wants
	these guys to win the game - especially against the likes
	of Reggie Miller and Mark Jackson :-)

	btw - was thinking about the rumored Eric Dampier for Rick Fox
	trade last night ... on paper, it made sense for both clubs,
	Indiana would definately be improved at small forward with Rick
	Fox instead of Duane Ferrell, and they don't play Dampier that
	much anyway with Smits starting and either Davis being able to 
	back him up ... and the C's could use a big young center - Dampier
	would start for the C's this year, and even if we won the lottery,
	he could back up Duncan next year ... still, not sure if I would
	have pulled the trigger on the deal because Dampier hasn't shown
	much in the games I have seen him play ... and its not like he
	was getting over matched by the Celtics centers :-)

	Vinny

    Anyone else think Rick Fox had one leg out of bounds when he pulled
    that baseline inbounds trick play last night?
    
    Maj

The clips from Sportscenter sure looked like it.

And it looks like ol' Rick got a bit carried away at the end and tried it
one more time with less successful results.

TTom

>>    Anyone else think Rick Fox had one leg out of bounds when he pulled
>>    that baseline inbounds trick play last night?
    
	There is no doubt that Rick got away with one ... even if his foot
	wasn't out of bounds, there is no way that both feet were established
	IN bounds before he grabbed the ball ... 

	But it was a sweet play! Just grazed the ball off Mark Jacksons head 
	while he had his back turned ...

	Vinny

    Didn't get to see the trick play. What did Fox do that was "unique"?
    Can someone describe the play in better detail?
    
    
     2
    b

>>    Didn't get to see the trick play. What did Fox do that was "unique"?
>>    Can someone describe the play in better detail?
    
	In the final minutes of the game, the Celtics were to inbound the
	ball under the Indiana basket ... Mark Jackson was supposed to
	guard Rick Fox, who was inbounding the ball ...

	Jackson turned his back on Rick, to try and double any Celtic
	breaking towards the inbounder ... Rick (gently) threw the
	ball OFF Jackson's head ... the ball grazed Mark's head and was
	still in the air when Rick stepped in bounds, grabbed the
	ball and layed it in the hoop ... a really heads up play by
	Rick ...

	The play is legal, but Rick must establish both feet IN bounds 
	before he is allowed to touch the ball, he clearly didn't do that,
	so the refs could have called him for a violation ...

	One of the few Celtic highlights recently ...

	Vinny

OK. So they lost another one despite the semi-heroic efforts of Marty
Conlon.

This is one they coulda almost shoulda won but it wasn't meant to be. Too
much Glen Rice, Anthony Mason and Vlade Divac.

TTom

    
    	They C's have probably lost about 15 close games this season. Games
    in which, if healthy they probably would have won. Plus, add in the 
    2 rookie's next season. They have the potential to rebound to a .500
    team next season.
    
    Ron

I think you hit it right on the nose, Ron.  I think I remember Tommy saying
that the Celtics have lost 15 games this season by 4 points or less.  

db

	A good weekend for the Celtics draft position ... :-(

	After ending their franchise tying losing streak in Toronto
	last week, the Celtics have gone on to lose at Indiana (in
	a very tightly contested game), lose at home to the Knicks
	(after blowing a 20 point first half lead) and get blown out
	at home to the Atlanta Hawks (down 19-0 to start the game) ...

	The Celtics played well in Indiana and they had a great first 
	half against the Knicks, but in the second half the Knicks 
	turned on the defensive pressure ... but yesterdays performance
	against the Hawks was an embarrassment ...to be outscored
	19-0 and 23-2 to start the game ... ugghhh ... and adding insult
	to injury, Antoine Walker severly sprained his ankle and is
	questionable for Tuesdays game against the Bulls ...

	Looking for the silver lining department:

	- Dallas continues to lose, they are at 19 wins and holding ...
	  Both the Nets and the Nuggets are only one win behind ... and
	  the 76ers are only three wins back ... in addition, Toronto has
	  moved up to 21 wins ... 

	- San Antonio won TWO games in a row and now have 15 on the 
	  season! Despite the Spurs self admitted tank job (read the
	  article in the Chicago paper in which Popovich admits to
	  holding David Robinson out of the lineup longer than necessary)
	  the Spurs have put some distance between themselves and
	  the Celtics ... 

	  There is a big percentage difference in lottery chances if the
	  Celtics finish with the worst record than if they finish with
	  the third worst record ... especially if Vancouver has the
	  second worst record ...

	- Great weekend for college hoops, congrats to BC for their first
	  Big East Tournament Title ... it couldn't have happened to a nicer
	  guy, Jim O'Brien deserved it ...

	- And a great weekend to scout the "future Celtics" ... got to
	  watch Tim Duncan, Ron Mercer, Keith Van "At the" Horn, and
	  Tim Thomas all in action ... 

	Vinny

    RE: future Celtics
    
    Tim Duncan was *immense* on Saturday - Wake wouldn't have even been
    in the game 10 minutes in if it wasn't for him.
    
    He looked *very* polished down low.  Of course, Serge Zwikker was
    defending him...

    Celtics are 3-17 in games decided by 5 points or less, and have only
    lost 7 games by 20 points or more.
    
    NAZZ

	What a crappy night for basketball! :-(

	- The Chicago Bulls defeat the Boston Celtics at the FleetCenter ...
	  (ok, not a totally bad thing for draft position)

	- Micheal Jordan passes Hondo (the highest scoring Celtic) for
	  sixth place on the NBA all-time scoring list ... side notes:
	  Dominique Wilkins culd also pass Hondo this season if he
	  averages slightly more than 20 points per game the rest of
	  the year - and he returned to action for the Spurs last night ...
	  and Jordan is on pace to pass the Big O for fifth place, just
	  about the time the Celtics play Chicago in April ...

	- the Dallas Mavs upset the Knicks! *&^%*&^%*^%*^ New York, even
	  in losing they manage to hurt Boston! Just proves once more that
	  scheduling DOES have an effect on a teams record, it is obvious
	  the the Knicks suffered a major let down after beating the
	  Bulls on Sunday ... 

	- and Philadelphia blew a 14 point lead late in the fourth quarter
	  to drop a game to the Minnesota Timberpuppies ... Marbury 
	  schooled Iverson late in the game to steal the win for Minnesota

	- and Vancouver lost a close one to the Charlotte Hornets
	  btw - Dave Cowens should get serious consideration for coach
	  of the year ... I honestly believe he his not in Boston coaching
	  right now because (1) The Celtics couldn't handle his honesty
	  and truthfulness (they don't want to hear how bad they are) and
	  (2) Cowens would have won a lot more games than ML, but not
	  enough to make the playoffs ... so we would have been stuck
	  in the low lottery netherlandss for another year ...

	Time to re-look at those lottery standings ...

	Grumble, grumble ... at least the NCAA starts tomorrow!

	Vinny

    What was with David Wesley lasted night? I tuned in very late in
    the 4th quarter, and heard Tommy muttering about David a couple
    of times, but didn't see what had transpired earlier in the game.
    Apparently David got very upset at some point in the game at 
    something, and continued to glower at officials, and MJ the rest
    of the night. What happened?
    
     2
    b
    

    Michael bumped into him and stripped him of the ball (right in front of
    me, btw).  For most players, it would have been a foul.  Not for
    Michael, of course.  Wesley stared down the ref big-time, to no
    discernable effect.
    
    Also David started the game shooting 1-9 or so, so it wasn't his best
    effort ever.  Not to mention Todd Day's 0 for his first 8, or Walker
    missing at least six layups en route to an 8-22 shooting night.
    
    NAZZ

	Well, lost in all the NCAA hoopla, the Celtics dropped a
	tough one at Dallas last night ...

	The good news, the C's are still in the running for the
	top pick ... the bad news, the Mavs are inching away from
	Denver and New Jersey, thus lowering the value of the
	Celtics second first round pick ...

	Whats gotten into Shawn Bradley? Looks like he is really trying
	to shake this soft label ... seems like he is getting into it
	with someone every game since he joined the Mavs, last night
	he pushed Rick Fox in the back after Rick made a layup, completely
	unneccessary ... and, of course, when Rick pushed back, he got the
	technical, the refs always catch the retaliation ...

	Don Nelson was right, Bradley can change the game even without
	scoring, many Celtics were intimidated going into the lane
	last night ... and when Bradley can score like that (a Mavs record
	for points scored by a center - 31),  he is a real force ...
	of course, the Celtics were trying to defend him with the likes
	of Brett Szabo, Alton Lister and Marty Conlon ...

	And speaking of Denver, if Chauncy Billups declares for the draft
	(point guard from Colorado, rated higher than Vaughn of Kansas
	or Knight of Stanford), look for the Nuggets to scoop him up ...
	so, if the Celtics want him (to back up or replace Wesley), they
	need the Mavs pick to be better than the Nuggets pick ...

	Back to scouting the NCAA tournament ... more rumors that Tim
	Thomas of Villanova (28 points against Long Island) will come 
	out early ... and why haven't we heard much about Kelvin Cato?

	Go Spurs!

	Vinny

    Dallas wins AT Sacarmento yesterday!?!?!?!?
    
    NAZZ

>>    Dallas wins AT Sacarmento yesterday!?!?!?!?
    
	Don't look now, but Dallas is only five games out of
	playoff contention in the watered down West ... with
	about 15-18 games remaining for each of the teams ...

	But hey, New Jersey has now defeated Chicago and New York 
	in the last week and they are only two games behind the Mavs!

	Vinny

>>           -< Two weeks from tomorrow is the ping pong ball drawing >-
	
	Scratch that ... two MONTHS from tomorrow (May 18) is
	the lottery drawing ... at halftime of one of the
	playoff games ...

	Vinny

	Celtics win! Celtics win!

	St. Patricks day proved to be lucky for the men in green
	this year as the Celtics defeated the Milwaukee Bucks
	last night at the Fleetcenter.

	Williams, Walker and Fox all had 20+ point games ... Wesley
	chipped in with 15, and Brett Szabo had a career high 10 points
	on 4-for-4 shooting (all dunks) and 2-for-2 from the free throw
	line ...

	For the Bucks, Glenn Robinson, Vin Baker and Ray Allen all
	had 20 point games, but Robinson and Baker both fouled out ...

	The Bucks have to be the most underacheiving team in the NBA,
	they have loads of offensive firepower (Robinson, Baker, Allen)
	but they are pathetic defensively ... its one thing not too have
	the talent, but these guys have the athletic ability to play
	defense, they just don't have the attitude ... Chris Ford just
	cannot get them to play 'd' ... and rumor has it that Chris is
	on thin ice in Milwaukee, the players are rebelling against his
	taskmaster coaching (gee, where have we seen that before?) ...

	Milwaukee is the perfect example of how NOT to rebuild through
	the lottery, they have six consecutive trips to lottery land,
	and they still haven't made the playoffs ... and they probably
	won't again this year ...

	Celtics play Utah next later this week ...

	In other news:

	- WABU Sports talk show (Butch Stearns) reported last night that 
	  Rick Pitino would NOT take the Boston coaching job under any 
	  circumstances, don't know where he got his information, just 
	  thought it was interesting considering all the Pitino rumors
	  floating around (take this with a grain of salt, this is the
	  same guy who thought Christian Laettner would be a better pro
	  than Shaquille O'Neil)

	- One of the reasons that Antoine Walker did not advocate the
	  Celtics drafting Ron Mercer is because they are not exactly the
	  "best of buddies" ...

	- If the Celtics go for a point guard with their second first
	  round pick, I hope they look at Antonio Daniels out of
	  Bowling Green ...

	- Or, the Knicks are said to be looking to move their first round
	  draft pick (they don't want to lock in an unproven rookie to
	  a three year contract) ... wonder if a couple second round
	  picks (no three year guarenteed contract to second round picks)
	  could grab this pick from them ... it could enable the Celtics
	  to grab another point guard prospect, someone like Andre Woolridge
	  from Iowa or Kiwane Garris from Illinios ...

	Vinny

    I got to sit in front of the tube and watch the whole game for
    a change. :-)
    Antoine Walker has made huge strides in improving his stroke
    at the FT line. He also shows some awsome moves to the rim
    in the paint. However he is showing some difficulty in finishing.
    He is missing a lot of shots he ought to be making. Given though
    that he injured his ankle recently, and that it is still for
    the most part on the mend, I'll assume that is what is affecting his
    ability to finish more of his shot selection in close to the basket.
    Eric Williams is showing a lot of finesse. He has shown a remarkable
    tenacity to get defenders off their feet, with his double pumps.
    He's got veterans around the league even leaving the floor with
    his double pumps. This is a skill that doesn't come readily to 
    young players, but he seems to make it look easy for him.
    Both Brett Szabo and Conlon chipped in with some quality minutes
    in lasted nights game. One thing I did notice though is how easy it
    was for Baker to muscle Williams in the paint. There were several
    times when Vinny should have been called for the offensive foul.
    The refs seemed to swallow their whistles at times during the game. :-)
    
     2
    b

    I read the article where Walker talked about Mercer.  One could opine
    that he didn't like Mercer or that he was just talking Celtics needs vs
    his business opinion of Mercer's talent.  Did Butch have any thing
    specific on this "feud"?  Walker probably thinks of himself as a
    scoring forward and sees the need for a strong rebounding forward.
    
    I like Szabo a lot because of his attitude and hustle.  Just how tall
    is he vs the program.
    
    Tim Thomas of Villanova looks very, very good and his quality is masked
    by Lappas and his surroundings.  I might take him ahead of even Mercer
    who really impressed me against UMass last year in the semi-final.
    
    

>>    Antoine Walker has made huge strides in improving his stroke
>>    at the FT line. He also shows some awsome moves to the rim
>>    in the paint. However he is showing some difficulty in finishing.
>>    He is missing a lot of shots he ought to be making. 


	I have noticed disturbing trend as well ... but I have seen
	him doing it all season, so I don't think that it can be 
	attributed to the ankle ... the Cous and Tommy seem to think 
	that it is his over zealousness, that he tends to rush things
	in his desire to play well ... hopefully, he will become a 
	better finisher with more experience ...

	Vinny

	btw - anyone catch the article in the Globe? Vin Baker wants
	to play for the Celtics ... he becomes a free agent in two more
	years (99) ... which Celtics contracts expire in two years
	(besides Antoines)? 

>>    Tim Thomas of Villanova looks very, very good and his quality is masked
>>    by Lappas and his surroundings.  I might take him ahead of even Mercer
>>    who really impressed me against UMass last year in the semi-final.
  

	I am now in the anti-Tim Thomas camp ... I don't want him on the
	Celtics ... after watching him play in the Big East Tournament and
	in the NCAA Tournament I have some major doubts about his
	attitude and desire ... there is little doubt that he has the
	skills to excel at the NBA level, but I don't think he has the
	mental/emotional makeup to drive himself to be a better, more complete
	player, he seems content to just coast through the game, relying on
	his superior athleticism, shooting jumpers and looking to make the 
	highlight film ... if I were to compare him to a current NBA player,
	then Glenn Robinson would come to mind ... Robinson may put up
	all-star numbers on the offensive end, but he still hasn't brought
	his team to the playoffs ... other NBA players I see (again, IMHO)
	with this type of attitude include Chris Webber and Derrick Coleman,
	very talented players who seem to turn it on or off depending on
	their mood ... 

	Vinny

	(but, I still hope that Thomas comes out early, so that some
	other team will draft him early and the Celtics can get a better
	player with the Dallas pick) 
    

    God, I hate to agree with Vinny, but I also am in the anti-Thomas camp. 
    It seems to me we have a player with his skills, and Antoine Walker has
    had a year in the pros already.
    
    Speaking of Walker, it is true that his shot selection is suspect, and
    he fancies himself a ballhandler too much of the time, and he commits
    too many turnovers.  But he plays hard, he's very athletic, he a very
    good rebounder, he's not afraid to bang underneath, and he's very quick
    for a man his size.  And as noted previously, he has improved his free
    throw shooting (unlike some other NBA players, who apparently don't
    think that's important).
    
    Also, a word of praise for Eric Williams.  He has lost that extra
    weight he was dragging around at the start of the season, and has
    continued to show few forwards can guard him in the post.  He's way too
    quick for the big ones, and has enough moves to beat the small ones.
    His outside shot has improved, as has his fre throw shooting.  He still
    does not rebound, but with a legitimate center, that wouldn't be as
    much of a problem.
    
    NAZZ

    Speaking of players who have lost some pounds, did anyone
    else see the svelte Sherman Tank out there? :-) Heck, I wouldn't
    mind having Sherman as a backup to Wesley, or equal playing time
    as David. Of course I wouldn't want him for the chunk of change
    it would take. :-)
    On Walker's ability to finish, I think what has hurt the Celtics
    to work on aspects such as this with the big men is the absence
    of Don Casey. He was an excellent teacher for the big guys, and
    I think the C's lack a quality coach in this area. Don allegedly
    had some very unique drills to help the big guys in practice.
    I have no way of knowing if the Celtics still use his practice
    drills & approach, or whether they have gone off in another different
    direction.
    
     2
    b

    Now that Nellie has done his deed for the cause, what do you think
    about the Celts making him a coach?

>>    Now that Nellie has done his deed for the cause, what do you think
>>    about the Celts making him a coach?

	No thank you.

	Nellie did great job in Milwaukee, but he has had difficulties
	in his last two coaching positions ... in Golden State he had
	the Chris Webber fiasco and in New York he couldn't work with
	Patrick Ewing ... so his reputation has taken a little bit of
	a beating ...

	Personally, I want someone who can relate to, work with, and most
	importantly teach, young players ... someone who has head coaching
	experience and can trun this team around ... Rick Pitino would
	be my top choice ... he took Providence to the Final Four, he
	turned the Knicks around, and he has an NCAA championship at
	Kentucky ... he also plays an agressive full court game that
	emphasizes trapping defense (not slow ball or thug ball) ...
	he is a team first, player second coach who gets his players
	to work hard ...

	If not Pitino, then someone else with similar qualifications ...

	Or, if Larry Bird takes over as gm, then maybe Dennis Johnson,
	a proven winner on the court as a player who now has some
	experience as an assistant coach ... he knows the team, is
	relativley young, is respected, and has been considered for
	other head coaching jobs (Washington for one) ...

	I just hope that the Celtics don't keep ML for another year ...
	If he was in charge of "deconstruction" then he did a great job,
	he was the ultimate company man in taking all the heat and getting
	this team in a position to rebuild from the bottom up ... now
	it is time for him to step aside and let the next guy start the
	rebuilding process ...

	Almost as bad would be bringing in one of the many retread 
	coaches, like Dick Motta, Bill Fitch, etc ... no thanks ...

	Too bad Dave Cowens had to accept the Charlotte position, timing
	is everything, he would be great as Celtics coach NEXT year,
	though I am glad he wasn't coach this year (we would have won
	too many games and not been in the running for a top draft pick -
	we would be in lottery land limbo like the Bucks) ...

	Vinny

    I agree with the "no more retreads" premise, but if Pitino plans to
    honor his contract at Kentucky until 2000, and the Celtics definitely
    want him to coach their team, even if they have to wait that long,
    perhaps a caretaker retread would be appropriate.  Someone with a lot
    of experience would help the youngsters, earn the respect of the older
    players, and accept his role as long-term interim coach until Pitino
    gets here.  Perhaps the Celts could even consult with Pitino to see who
    he thinks would be able to perform that job.
    
    NAZZ

>>                 -< Chuck Daly for 2-3 years wouldn't be bad >-

	He is on the short list for the Orlando job ... along with
	Rick Pitino ... the Magic ownership want a "big name" coach ...

	They are also rumored to be waiting until the summer to 
	start their search in the hopes that Phil Jackson decides
	to leave the Bulls ...

	Vinny

	btw - Nazz, you agreeing with me twice in one day? whats going
	on here! Next thing you know you are going to be wearing
	maroon and gold humming "For Boston, for Boston ... "

    
    	Vinny,
    
    		I wouldn't want the C's to pick up another 1st round pick
    from the Knicks or anybody. For the same reason those teams don't want
    the player. They are guaranteed 3 year contracts which effect your
    salary cap. Last year Chicago drafted Travis Knight and asked him to go
    play in Europe. So they could evaluate him, without signing him to a 3
    year deal. He said know, so Chicago released him.
    	There is speculation that teams will just PASS in the draft and not
    even select in the 1st round. Which would move the C's 2nd round pick,
    into a late 1st rounder anyways. Without the burden of a 3 year
    contract.
    
    Ron

    I'd second (as I think I said a year or two ago when he might
    have been available), having Dave Cowens here in Boston next
    year. One never knows in the NBA who will be moving where, so
    who knows what might happen. I recall though that Cowens signed
    a multi year deal with the bugs...maybe TTom can verify this eh?
    
     2
    b

    Mike only one problem on that Nelson thank  you, since the trade Dallas
    has improved.
    
    Thomas had a great BE quarterfinal pulling Villanova past that good
    Providence team.  BC singled him out and 'nova didn't counter.  He came
    on at the end but too late.
    
    I see him as a guard presenting big time problems.  He will be a bigger
    star than most of this and the previous year's crop, bigger than
    Stackhouse I'm predicting right now.
    
    Speaking of predictions how are Phoenix chances for the playoffs? 
    Don't Kidd me now.

    If everyone stays put, there aren't a whole lot of choices out there.
    
    Bill, if Phoenix wins tonight they are tied for the 8th spot.

    Vinny, I'll be long dead and buried before I sing that proud refrain.
    
    NAZZ

    Well in the obscure second verse there is a line
    
    "Till time shall be no more and thy work is crowned"

	Back to the draft pick discussions ...

	The Dallas pick took a turn for the better last night as the
	Bullets nipped the Mavericks 86-85 in Dallas ... 

	And Marcus 'Cotton' Camby led the Raptors to another victory, 
	moving them two games ahead of the Mavericks in the standings ...

	Dallas has a very difficult schedule remaining, with most of 
	their games on the road, and many of them against playoff 
	contenders, here is hoping the Raptors can hold them off and 
	the suddenly respectable Nets can catch them ...

	btw - with the recent Globe article mentioning that Vin Baker
	would like to play for the Celtics, the Celtics mail list
	and newsgroup have been coming up with all sorts of dream
	trade scenarios to land Baker before he becomes a free agent,
	the logic beeing that the Bucks would like to get something
	for him before he leaves town and they may need to do a Dallas
	type house cleaning anyway ... realistically, what could the
	Celtics offer? And where would he fit in with the Celtics?
	Assuming we get Duncan in the draft and keep Antoine Walker,
	could we play a Duncan/Walker/Baker front line (no outside
	shooting there) or would one of Walker/Baker be willing to
	accept the sixth man role? ...

	Vinny

    Would you give up Dallas' #1 pick, Rick Fox, and Dino Radja for
    Baker and Milwaukee's #1 (looks like the 10-11th pick)?
    
    NAZZ

>>    Would you give up Dallas' #1 pick, Rick Fox, and Dino Radja for
>>    Baker and Milwaukee's #1 (looks like the 10-11th pick)?
    
	Can't trade Fox now ... he is a free agent ...

	And that is basically the trade I would propose, 
	Dino and the Dallas pick for Baker and the Bucks pick ...

	From the Celtics point of view, this is a no-brainer, make
	this trade immediately ... Milwaukee may want to sweeten
	the deal a little bit, if they even consider it ...

	Vinny

    No, Fox is NOT a free agent.  He has three years remaining on a
    contract that will pay him slightly less than $2 million a year.  What
    Fox does have is an option to get out of the deal at the end of this
    year and become a free agent.  It's his decision - he has something
    like 30 days after the end of the season to let the Celtics know what
    he's gonna do.
    
    NAZZ

    I'm a little rusty being out of this note for so long, but.....am I
    missing something here??
    
    If Vin Baker wants to play for the Celtics, why not just wait until he
    becomes a free agent and then sign him.  That way, you don't have to
    make the decision about trading #1 picks and players to Milwaukee.
    
    After you sign him, then you make your salary cap decisions later.
    
    Someone help me understand this better please?

I guess no one caught the reply of WEEI's interview (Ordway and I forget who else)
with DJ.  I did not hear the entire interview, and, while DJ said he has not talked
about being the Celtics coach with ML, he definitely did not rule out the option for
next year either.  It is hard to project "body language" over the radio, but he was 
more receptive to the idea than I've described above.  DJ coach, a stronger presence
from LB behind the scenes - kinda interesting eh?  With two good draft choices, it's
almost time to find those green tinted glasses..

WL

    I got dizzy trying to wrap my eyeballs around the back of the
    monitor....reformatted for 80 columns. 
    
     2
    b
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
         <<< HUMANE::DISK$SCSI:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;3 >>>
                 -< Welcome to the Boston Celtics Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 246.172            1996-97 Celtics Games Discussion              172 of 172
WRKSYS::LEICHTER                                      9 lines  20-MAR-1997 12:39
                       -< Back to the Coach question... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess no one caught the reply of WEEI's interview (Ordway and I forget 
who else) with DJ.  I did not hear the entire interview, and, while DJ 
said he has not talked about being the Celtics coach with ML, he definitely 
did not rule out the option for next year either.  It is hard to project 
"body language" over the radio, but he was more receptive to the idea 
than I've described above.  DJ coach, a stronger presence from LB behind 
the scenes - kinda interesting eh?  With two good draft choices, it's
almost time to find those green tinted glasses..

WL

    In answer to your question a few notes back - 
    
    There are a couple of problems with the scenario of just waiting for Baker
    to become a free agent.  The major one is that the Bucks, if they are
    convinced they cannot re-sign Baker, may trade him to at least get some
    value for him before he leaves.  There are 27 options other than the
    Celtics where Milwaukee can ship Baker.
    
    Also, there is the salary cap problem.  By 1999, the Celtics may well
    have re-done contracts for Walker, Wesley, and Williams, signed at
    least three high draft picks, and perhaps picked up a free agent or
    two.  There may not be room under the cap for Baker.
    
    Lastly, by 1999 he may have become injured or developed a chronic
    problem that could make him less desirable.
    
    NAZZ

	The Celtics lost to the Utah Jazz last night, the final score
	was 113-100, but the game was not nearly that close ... the Jazz
	took control in the second and third quarters and coasted to the
	win ...

	The most interesting part of the game (for the draft watchers)
	was late in the game when Gorman and Heinsohn started discussing
	draft possibilities ...

	They agreed that the Tim Duncan would be number one, but they
	were not optomisitc that the Celtics would have the top pick,
	they pointed out (correctly) that the Celtics only have about
	a 30-40% chance of landing the top pick ... they started their
	discussion with the premise that the C's would be drafting
	third (or fourth) ... they thought Mercer would go #2 to Vancouver
	... they liked Van Horn, but couldn't see the Celtics drafting 
	another forward ... Gorman thought that Battie would be coming
	out this year and that he would be a possible pick ... was surprised
	that they didn't mention Foyle ...

	Anyway, only 15 or so games remain ...

	Vinny

>> re: Vinny.
>>that the Celtics only have about a 30-40% chance of landing the top pick

I heard that, too, Vinny.  The number was actually 39%.  That means that there
is a 61% chance that a team other than the Celtics will be picking first.
Also, both Gorman and Heinsohn agreed that Van Horn was NOT an NBA center.
Some people seem to think that's where he'll play in the NBA.

>> Vin Baker

The other advantage to having your own player become a free agent is that you
can sing him at any salary regardless of your current cap status.  Otherwise,
as Nazz mentioned, you have to have room for his full salary within your cap.

Dan

    I like VanHorn a lot, but I think he'll do best in a program where
    there already is an established center.  For example, I think he'd be a
    great addition to the Grizzlies.  Put him on a front line with Reeves
    and Abdur-Rahim, and you've got something.  In Philly, I think he'd
    have a tough time.
    
    Mercer looks like the real deal, but I can't see the Celtics taking him
    with their overload at small forward/shooting guard.  I think they will 
    go big with both picks, and say goodbye to Ellison, Brickowski, Lister,
    et al.
    
    NAZZ

>            -< How about Bobby Jackson with our second round pick? >-

Put me down as a fan o' Bobby Jackson, too. He got a lot of people's
attention lasted night.

TTom

	Quick hitters:

	- After what Kentucky did to Van Horn, I am questioning how
	  highly he is rated ... it could be that he doesn't have the
	  teammates to get him the ball or take some of the pressure
	  off him, but he was shut down by Kentucky's quickness, and 
	  in the NBA, there are LOTS of players with that type of 
	  quickness ... 

	- Mercer looks better and better the more I see him ... I don't 
	  care if Antoine doesn't like him, if the C's have the number
	  two pick, they can't pass him up ... take Mercer and then
	  Battie/Foyle, heck, Kelvin Cato to fill the hole in the middle

	- You can have Vaughn, the guy passed up an open three pointer
	  with the game on the line to pass to a covered teammate ...
	  big time players step up and take (the great ones make)
	  that shot ...

	- Antawn Jamison is a better player than I thought ... he took
	  over the NC / Cal game in the second half ...

	- Nightmare on Causeway St : Someone in my NCAA traveling party
	  envisioned the Celtics drafting Serge Zwikker ... I give up
	  all hope if that happens ...

	- The Nets are gaining on the Mavericks, and the Grizz is only
	  a game behind the C's ... could push the odds over 40% for that
	  top pick ...

	Vinny

	The Celtics lost again last night, this time to the Washington
	Bullets in their final visit to the US Air Arena ... the Bullets
	(soon to be Wizards) will have moved into their new arena by
	the time the Celtics visit again ...

	Eric Williams started out the game on fire last night, making
	some brilliant offensive moves in the paint ... he scored 12
	first quarter points ... but the C's didn't get him many touches
	after that and he finished with 24 points ... 

	The Celtics still have not won an Atlantic Division game this
	season ... no team in the NBA has ever gone a full season without
	winning at least one game within their division ... upcoming
	games against the 76ers are the Celtics best chance to break
	this streak ...

	In the good news department, Dallas lost again, and the Nets won ...
	the two teams now have identical records ... and both teams trail
	the Raptors and Warriors by three games in the win column with
	only 13 games remaining ... looks like a sixth or seventh pick
	for the C's (barring any wild ping pong ball combinations) ...

	No comments in here about the Larry Bird comments? Hey, I know
	its slow, but that was Celtic news that could seriously affect
	the future of this club ... hopefully, 'Thanks Dad' was listening
	and makes a move before it is too late ...

	Vinny
	

    Vinny, I took Larry's comments as an endorsement of ML Carr.  He was
    basically saying that he would not coach the Celtics for two reasons;
    1. ML is the coach and he supports him, 2. Larry has seen how the
    fans/media have turned on ML and forgotten his success in his playing
    days.  Larry doesn't want to tarnish his image of playing days by
    coaching.
    
    Don

The comment I heard was that he does want to coach but he would not coach
THIS Celtics team!  He would want to put his own team together.  We'll see
by draft time if Larry is more active with the team.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the Mav's ping pong ball came up first!  Now that 
would be a sign that the luck of the Irish was back with the Green!

On another note, I heard that the NBA might be looking at moving the 3-point
line back to the original distance.  If that happens I think Todd Day will
be out of a job!  On second thought, he may be out of a job anyway.  He's
had way too many games like last night.  He couldn't even make a layup!

Dan

    I took Bird's comment exactly the other way.  I think that while he was
    saying that ML was his teammate and he wouldn't want to have anything
    to do with ML getting the boot, that's exactly what his comments are
    set up to do.  If Gaston listens to Bird, he will "promote" ML to some
    phony front office job, make Bird head of basketball operations, and
    let Larry hire his own coach and mold this team the way he wants.
    
    NAZZ

    I'd be estatic if the moved the 3-pt line back. There is waaaay
    too much emphasis being put on the 3-pt shot all because it's
    so much easier to make it than when it was further out. The Todd
    _ay's of the NBA would all then be out of a job, & would become 
    CBA'ers where they belong. Moving the 3-pt line out has done 
    nothing for the Professional game except slow it down, and lower
    the average points scored by teams. I find it truely boring to
    watch a team bring the ball up the floor, and with all of 15-20 
    seconds still left on the shot clock, some goofus who thinks he
    can shoot treys throws an air-ball up, it results in a turn-over.
    The average shooting % of teams is also down. If all teams would
    concentrate on getting the ball closer into the basket for a higher
    % shot, and put less emphasis on the 3-pointer, it would grestly
    improve the game IMVHO....and I'm not talking about promoting more
    dunking either!
    
     2
    b

	I like what, and how, Larry said in the most recent interviews ...

        He is ready to assume a more active role in basketball once
        again, either as a general manager or a coach ... he would
        consider coaching, but not the Celtics ... 

        My opinion, is that he wouldn't campaign for the Celtics job 
        while ML is still there, he respects his former teammate ...
        Gotta like LB for that - he doesn't stab his freinds in the 
        back ... I also think that he really doesn't want to coach, 
        that he would prefer a general manager position (with the
        Celtics) but by making these comments he is opening himself
	up to offers from other teams ... thus, giving himself leverage
	to get what he wants from 'Thanks Dad' ... Larry also commented
        that there were way too many layers of management in the
        Celtics front office ... my guess is that Larry would like
        to come in as gm, name a coach, and then the two of them
        control all personell decisions ... 

        From the bottom line perspective, Gaston would really please
        the fans (ie. paying customers) if he "promoted" ML Carr
        to VP of Public Relations, named Larry Bird general manager
        and then hired a Rick Pitino/Dennis Johnson as new coach ...

        Along with the two draft picks, this would really usher in a
        new era for the Celtics ... one with lots of optimism ...

	Vinny

    
    	In reading Larry's comments I got the feeling he doesn't like how
    the organization is being run from the top down. When it comes to
    drafting players he said that too many people are involved. Meaning
    that all the scouts, assistants, Red, Gaston, etc... are all involved.
    He feels that the scouts should come in give there opinion. Then it
    should be up to 2 or 3 people to make decisions.
    
    Ron

	I just got this article from the Celtics mailing list ...
	some very interesting points ...

	Vinny

     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
   [ISMAP]-CBS SportsLine/Pro Sports Xchange
   
                                Boston Celtics
                                       
   
  HOT TOPICS:
  
   GETTING INSIDE
   
   We hold these Celtic truths to be self-evident -- or at least evident
   to this self.
   
   -- There is more to the M.L. Carr-Paul Gaston relationship than meets
   the eye. We believe it, and so do some of the players.
   
   It was written here after Carr made the million-dollar vertical leap
   up the organizational chart that one should not be surprised if M.L.
   some day headed a group that would buy the Celtics. The only evidence
   at the time was the knowledge Carr had spoken to commissioner David
   Stern about such a move with another club, as well as a general
   feeling about Carr's goals.
   
   Don Gaston (Paul's father and the former chairman of the board)
   laughed and told the writer he had quite an imagination.
   
   These days Carr responds to the query by saying it's as relevant as
   "whether I'm going to be going to the moon next Thursday.'' But Carr
   is by no means poor, and he still keeps close ties with his friends
   from the business community.
   
   And whether or not Paul Gaston is merely taking the marketplace
   temperature, he HAS discussed selling the Celts with potential buyers.
   
   -- One should not look at the lack of player outbursts and assume
   there is happiness within the ranks. Trust me, all that is keeping a
   number of Celts from speaking up about the problems they see is an
   unwillingness to be soiled in the process and a fear they could scare
   off another club's general manager.
   
   Players here genuinely like Carr as a person, but after having played
   for some highly-regarded people, they do question his talents as a
   coach. The issues run from the X and O stuff to the general plan.
   
   Several eyes were rolled Wednesday when Eric Williams scored 12 points
   in the first quarter and then got just five more shots the rest of the
   night while the offense degenerated into the first person down court
   with the ball heaving up a jumper.
   
   -- It is extremely fortunate for Carr and Celtic Nation that the club
   was beset with injuries this season. While there is some interesting
   maneuvering going on now as people position themselves to take bows if
   Tim Duncan turns Green, the move toward the beautiful bottom of the
   NBA pool has largely been happenstance.
   
   Carr was very wise to avoid higher-priced free agents last summer, but
   if Dino Radja, Dana Barros and Pervis Ellison had remained relatively
   healthy, the Celtics would be looking at 25 wins and pocketful of
   draft uncertainty.
   
   Now that the Celts are where most fans have wanted them to be for
   several years, Carr's main job this season has been to develop the
   youngsters. In the two main cases, there are questions. Antoine Walker
   has improved his approach to the game, but he could have used more
   time at his desired point-forward spot. And Williams still lacks the
   outside component he needed the day he walked in the door. As for his
   stated improvement in getting to the free throw line, realize that he
   is attempting a foul shot every 5.5 minutes this season. It was one
   every 4.9 minutes last year.
   
   -- Larry Bird has done everything but break into the basketball
   director's office, plant his flag in the carpet and declare the room
   sovereign territory. He wants the keys to the Celtics, and everyone
   around -- and on -- the club knows it. One factor working against Bird
   is that, if he does get the job, the housecleaning will register on
   the Richter Scale. People are trying to protect their phony-baloney
   jobs.
   
   NOTES, QUOTES, ANECDOTES
   
   M.L. Carr was indisposed for a good portion of the pregame Friday,
   owing to a bad encounter with a herd of Buffalo wings back at the
   hotel. But after an evening of withstanding the Philadelphia slings
   (and arrows), an intestinal rumba undoubtedly seemed like a more
   appealing option.
   
   The Celtics put aside their "at least we always play hard'' badge and
   took a 113-105 dive against the 76ers.
   
   "It looks like we're going out in the sun without a hat,'' said Rick
   Fox. "It seems as though we're settling into a routine based on the
   fact the season's been a rough ride. We were playing hard for most of
   the season, but we're not doing that right now.''
   
   --The C's are 0-21 in the Atlantic Division, dropping their fifth
   straight overall and seventh straight on the road. The Celts are now
   3-34 away from home.
   
   As for the winless mark in the division (with three such tilts
   remaining), Fox said, "For some reason, we usually play those teams on
   nights when we don't come to play.''
   
   Antoine Walker, after scoring 37 points (a career high and Celtic high
   for the season), was not reveling in his performance. After all, he'd
   taken 30 shots from the floor (hitting 15).
   
   "I play to win games,'' he said. "I don't play just to score a lot of
   points. If you love this game and you're a team player and you care,
   then you can't be happy with a personal thing when you lose the game.
   I'm happy I'm getting better, but I play to win games.''
   
   --The Celtics should have felt right at home in the Sixers' new
   building. With the exception of the fact the lower level of luxury
   suites does not go all the way around, it is the same interior
   blueprint as their FleetCenter. The Sixers help to squeeze in a little
   over 2,000 more people for capacity by using their ceiling-level
   "halo'' for private suites. And, by the way, the arena's seats are a
   maroonish red -- not yellow.
   
   --David Wesley had a personal coach on hand. His mother, Ramona, paid
   a visit. She couldn't have been happy when he missed two of his four
   free throws in the first half. It was mom who worked with David in
   training camp and told him pointedly, "There's a reason they call them
   FREE throws.'''
   
   BY THE NUMBERS: 10 -- games left in the season and the only number
   that seems to mean anything to the players these days.
   
   QUOTE TO NOTE: "I'm not going anywhere'' -- M.L. Carr discussing the
   mounting rumors surrounding his job security.
   
   STRATEGY AND PERSONNEL
   
   Dee Brown's return from a hyperextended right big toe lasted five
   games. He was back on the bench in civilian clothing last night after
   aggravating the injury in Washington Wednesday. But he is not giving
   up on the last 10 games of the season.
   
   "I've got to go home and put the boot back on,'' said Brown, who left
   the device figuring he was back in the playing mode. "I'm going to try
   to come back. If I can play one more game, I'll take it.''
   
   GAME MATCHUPS: Tuesday at Chicago -- The Bulls have yet to break a
   sweat while beating the Celtics thrice this season. The margins have
   been nine, 12 and 11 points, meaning Chicago isn't even taking these
   games seriously.
   
   Wednesday versus Cleveland -- The Cavaliers have only beaten the C's
   once this season ... because they've only played them once. The Cavs
   went ahead by 26 in Cleveland on March 1 and never looked back. Though
   Cleveland prefers the slower game against the rest of the NBA, it
   generally stretches out its offense against the Celts.
   
   IN YOUR FACE: Tuesday at Chicago -- The Bulls have won 10 straight
   against Boston.
   
   Wednesday versus Cleveland -- Said Rick Fox, "They seem to lose that
   fear of running when they see us.''
   
   ROTATION: Starters -- Point guard David Wesley (below 50 percent
   shooting in six of last eight); Off guard Rick Fox (double-figure
   scoring in last 20); Small forward Antoine Walker (58 rebounds in last
   4); Power forward Eric Williams (three blocked shots in last six
   games; 10 the rest of the season); Center Brett Szabo (no assists in
   last 19 games). Bench -- First guard Todd Day (6-29 shooting in last
   three); First forward Marty Conlon (two blocked shots in last 28
   games); First center Alton Lister (scoreless in last three).
   
   INJURY UPDATE: Dee Brown (hyperextended right big toe) is
   questionable; Greg Minor (right foot surgery) injured list; Dino Radja
   (left knee surgery) injured list; Dana Barros (left ankle surgery)
   injured list; Frank Brickowski (right shoulder surgery) injured list;
   Pervis Ellison (broken right big toe) injured list.
   

    I read in this morning Globe that DJ went nose-to-nose with
    Bill Oakes. When asked what transpired, DJ said that Oakes
    said something to the affect to DJ, "Don't ever say that to 
    me again". So Nazz (or anyone else), what was the circumstances
    around which DJ got called for the Technical? Oh, DJ told the
    Globe reporter that he said to Oakes, that the Celtics were in
    the game too. I'm going to guess that it probably had something to
    do with lopsided foul calling, or ref's swallowing their whistles.
    
    PS: I noticed that Antoine, got a triple double...
    
     2
    b

    When Antoine was close to the triple double (he needed one more assist
    and three more rebounds), I kinda gave him a questionable one with
    about eight minutes left.  His last two boards were legit, though.  ;-)
    
    I also heard Oakes scream that (Don't ever say that to me again!) right
    in DJ's face.  To his credit, DJ never backed up and never said
    anything back at Oakes that would have make him even more pissed, if
    that was possible.  I still don't know what caused Oakes to momentarily
    go completely insane.
    
    NAZZ

	Bad night for the Celtics lottery chances ... 

	Dallas defeated the Timberwolves (boy, have they struggled
	since clinching a playoff birth) ... the Mavericks now have
	24 wins, same number as the Nets, who lost to the 76ers ...

	In other lottery news, according to ESPN, Tim Thomas will be 
	leaving Villanova after his freshman year for the NBA ... I
	hope the Celtics stay away from this guy, he may be 6-10,
	but he shies away from the paint and prefers the perimeter
	game ... a nice way to say he is soft ...

	And Antawn Jamison is reportedly staying at UNC, seems Fluffy
	(Dean Smith) had a bunch of ex-Tarheels in the NBA call 
	Jamison to tell him that he isn't ready for the pro's just
	yet (and I agree) ...

	Vinny - Two games to go

Vinny,

Jamison's dad was interviewed by the local sports talk guy and he said
that there's a possibility that Jamison might stay for 2 more years.
About ever other word was "education".

He also said Dean advised him that he thought that right now he'd be no
worse than the #7 pick but could be the top pick in '98.

TTom

    Don't worry Joe, The Celtics even with the Dallas pick won't get close
    to Thomas.  Now if Duncan is gone and the C's had the choice of Mercer
    or Thomas that would be tough.  Six months ago, Mercer; now I
    personally would pick Thomas.  He's a sure NBA future all-star.  Forget
    college it's a different game.  It's good to see toughness for power
    forward and to some extent center but Thomas will be a 2 or possible a
    point guard.
    
    Thomas is going to go very,very high.

    At 6-10, Thomas would have to have quite exceptional ball handling
    skills, passing skills, and be able to run, cut like someone 6"
    shorter, before I'd consider him a 2 of point. I'd put exceptionally
    coordinated at the top of the required list for someone that tall
    to be a 1 or 2.
    
    
     b
    b

    Did I watch the same Tim Thomas you people did all year with Villanova? 
    I saw a kid with very good athletic ability, who refused to rebound,
    who ran the floor well but not all the time, who had an inconsistent
    outside shot, and who underachieved for someone considered a superstar.
    
    He may turn out to be a great pro as you folks feel, but I see a
    Derrick Coleman type without the rebounds.  He'll be a lottery pick,
    but not among the top four.
    
    NAZZ

I don't know how much you can blame him for his inconsistency. I saw it
too, but I also saw the whole Nova team underachieve, especially down the
stretch.

Given the proper tutelage and him spenind a lot of time working on his
shot, Thomas has a pretty big up side.

I only saw him about a half dozen times but I din't see anything that
would indicate a Derrick Coleman or even a John Wallace attitude.

In any case, I whatever success he achieves, it'll be at the 2 or 3.

TTom

	If I am going to compare Tim Thomas to anyone currently
	in the NBA, it would be Glenn Robinson ... a tremendously
	gifted athlete who will put up all-star OFFENSIVE numbers,
	and not rebound or play defense with any desire ...

	At 6'10, 240 lbs, this guy will play forward in the NBA,
	mostly the small/shooting forward spot, but sometimes
	the power forward spot, kind of like what Antoine does
	for the Celtics ...

	As for his inconsistencies, I read that a lot of the problems
	with Villanova this year stemmed from the seniors not getting
	along with the "superstar freshman" ... the seniors felt that
	it was their year to shine, but too much attention was given
	to Thomas ... looks like they will all be in the same draft
	anyway ...

	Vinny

    And all those seniors will be taken well behind that freshman, if at
    all.  Latest projection I've seen is Lawson has played himslef into the
    second round and may even go after ALvin Williams.  Kornegay will not
    be drafted.
    
    NAZZ

    From what I could see with Villanova last year they'd try to win
    without Thomas and then go to him when they're desperate.  He had a
    great, great game vs a good Providence team that almost beat Arizona.
    
    Thomas is very lithe and plays like a 6'4" guy.  Passes exceptionally
    well and shoots extremely well.  An absolute steal if the Celtics could
    ever draft him.  When I say point guard I'm really emphasizing that the
    playmaking can go thru him.
    
    Now a good NBA scout may have determined that there's a kid out there
    that can bang and rebound in the NBA like a Battie.  For those skills
    attitude is everything.  

	And the season is officially over ... 

	On the final weekend of the 1996-97 Regular Season, 
	the Celtics defeated the Philadelphia 76ers and lost
	to the Toronto Raptors ... Boston finished the year
	with a 15-67 record, second worst in the league, better
	than only the Vancouver Grizzlies ...

	The win over the 76ers gave the C's their first win 
	over a divisional opponent THIS season ... Antoine Walker
	led the way for Boston, posting his second consecutive
	triple double ...

	On Sunday, the Celtics mailed it in, getting pasted by the
	Raptors ...

	In other news, the Dallas Mavericks finished the season
	with the sixth worst record in the NBA ... this should
	give the Celtics two great picks in the upcoming draft ...

	Off season questions:

	(1) Should ML stay as general manager? Or should Larry Bird
	    be brought in to replace him?

	(2) Should ML stay as coach? And, if not, who should be
	    brought in to replace him? (Who the gm is will have
	    major impact on this)

	(3) Should the Celtics re-sign free agent David Wesley?
	    If yes, how much should they spend on him?

	(4) If Rick Fox opts out of his contract, should the
	    Celtics re-sign him?

	(5) Should the Celtics re-sign free agent Todd Day?

	(6) May 11 is the last day for underclassmen to declare for 
	    the draft (Tony Battie?)

	(7) May 18 is the lottery drawing, when we find out what picks
	    the Celtics have.
	    
	    After that, we can start talking who to draft, who to trade.
	
	Vinny
	

>	(1) Should ML stay as general manager? Or should Larry Bird
>	    be brought in to replace him?
>	(2) Should ML stay as coach? And, if not, who should be
>	    brought in to replace him? (Who the gm is will have
>	    major impact on this)

    ML should stay as both for *one* more year.  After that, they will have
    a better idea who and what this team is about and be able to make an
    educated acquisition for one or both of these positions.  In my
    opinion, under no condition should Larry be the general manager.  He
    was a hell of a player, but he has absolutely no managerial skills that
    I've seen over the years.
    
>	(3) Should the Celtics re-sign free agent David Wesley?
>	    If yes, how much should they spend on him?

    David is the only point guard that this team has right now.  I'd say
    $1.2 Million should be a starting point.
    
>	(4) If Rick Fox opts out of his contract, should the
>	    Celtics re-sign him?

    If they can sign him for a reasonable amount, I'd take him.  He may not
    be the best player on the floor, but he plays a certain role quite
    well.  I'd say try and get him back.
    
>	(5) Should the Celtics re-sign free agent Todd Day?

    No.  First of all To__ _ay has no defense.  Second, his offense is only
    slightly better.  The Celtics can pick up a dozen CBA players with his
    skills for the league minimum.
    
Marc	    

    ML should take a position in "Ownership" and get out of the day to day
    running of this team. Put all the excuses aside and let's look at the
    record. This is the third year in the ML era. They are probably the
    worse 3 years in Celtics history. The team has gone downhill each year.
    No other GM would ever be rehired with this record. In the two years of
    coaching the C's were outcoached consistently. They have very little
    room under the salary cap to sign any top free agent right now.
    Contracts to Barros,Ellison and Radja as well as Fox have left this
    team with little room to move.
    It's time the team went out and got a top Coach who will work teach a
    young team how to win just like they did when they brought in Bill
    Fitch. Maybe a Larry Brown or a Pitino. 
    Also it's time for a GM who's willing to make some deals to free up
    some cap room. It's going to take some imagination but it can happen.
    
    Mike

	I think its time for ML to step aside as BOTH general manager
	and coach ... move on to ownership or back to public relations,
	but get out of the basketball side of the business ...

	ML did his job - he "deconstructed" a mediocre team into a 
	terrible team ... he defelected criticism from his players
	onto himself, and he has shown himself to be the ultimate
	company man ... now he needs to hand the baton over to someone
	who can build this team from the ground up ...

	The Celtics now have a two solid young players (Williams and 
	Walker) and two very high draft picks to start the job of 
	"rebuilding" ... the Celtics should bring in a coach who 
	has experience working with young players, who can develop
	their individual skills and turn them into a winning unit ...
	hmmm, I see parellels to when the Celtics brought in Bill Fitch 
	to work with a young team made up of Larry Bird, Robert Parrish 
	and Kevin McHale - gasp, could Larry Brown actually be a good 
	fit for next years Celtics?

	As for the free agents, I hope the Celtics renounce their rights
	to Todd Day immedietly ... to retain his rights would cost the
	Celtics over $3 million against the cap (a 20% increase from last
	years salary) until a new deal is signed ... while Todd can be
	a scoring machine, he is a liability defensively, is too 
	inconsistent, and makes way too many bonehead plays ... he has
	the ability to keep both teams in the game ...

	Rick Fox will be looking for $2 million plus a year (since he
	will be opting out of a contract that was scheduled to pay him 
	$1.7 million) ... re-signing him will depend on who the Celtics 
	acquire in the draft and who is coaching next year ... if the
	Celtis picked up a Tim Duncan and a point guard, then I would
	keep Rick ... if the Celtics get Ron Mercer and a forward, then
	I would let Rick walk ...

	David Wesley is going to be a $$$ decision ... he is said to
	be looking for a Chris Childs type deal (ie. $3-4 million per
	year) ... Charlotte is rumored to be interested in him and they
	may have $3 million to spend on a point guard ... would I like
	to keep David on the Celtics? Most definately yes ... do I want
	to tie up $3 million a year for multiple years on an average
	point guard? Not really ... If it is goig to cost that much
	to keep David, I would choose to draft a point guard instead,
	someone like Antonio Daniels from Bowling Green ... if he would 
	sign for considerably less (doubtful, why would he when he sees
	Barros sitting next to him making more, and doing less?) then
	keep him ...

	btw - if you draft an Antonio Daniels to play the point, he
	is about 6'4, then Dana Barros becomes a much more effective
	player, since those two can be paired in the backcourt
	together, unlike Wesley and Barros (two six footers) ...

	Vinny - who has talked himself into a Duncan/Daniels draft,
	        barring the unrealistic dream of getting two of the 
	        top three picks ...

    
    I thought the NBA invoked a rookie salary cap recently?  If so, then
    picking up the point guard in the draft is a cheap option.  Otherwise,
    resigning Wesley may be their only option.
    
    And I agree with Vinny concerning ML being the perfect company man.  As
    such, I think it only fair that they give him the one extra season to
    "show his stuff", something he hasn't been allowed to show in the past
    because of the purposeful "decontruction" of the team.  He did a very
    good job on the way down, who's to say that he won't do an equally good
    job on the way back up.
    
    Besides, who else would you get to be GM?  Larry?
    
    Scary as it sounds, I think Larry Brown would be a good choice for
    coach, but I don't think the Celtics will get him.  I suspect that
    Brown will sign with Philadelphia or, if Cleveland is stupid enough to
    fire their coach, with the Cavs.
    
    Marc
    

    
    	One rumour I heard is that the C's were looking at Larry Brown
    for the short term (2 or 3 years). Then would go after Rick Pitino
    when Larry Brown had enough. Pitino just isn't ready to leave Kentucky
    at this point in time.
    
    Ron

I get the feeling that there is a chess match going on between ML and Bird, with Gaston
sorta encouraging all parties to keep in play.  Bird (gets encouraged) to scout out coaches,
and gets Pitino and Brown(?) to conceptually agree, provided Bird is the management guy.  This
also focused a lot of press attention on ML, who most agree is not the coach of the future.
ML kinda / sorta agrees, it's just a question of when the future begins.

Bird mysteriously (in my opinion, though the press offers legit reasons) takes himself out
of the recent scouting trips, as ML's rumors come up that he may be interested in an ownership
position - sorta lets public opinion win out and places Bird in control with Bird's coach,
but, trumps (chess?) Bird by becoming his boss.  It's a stretch, but I think there's more to
what's going on than the press is either aware of, or in the interests of objective reporting,
letting us know.

    
    	In the paper today, Larry said that he never goes to Portsmouth.
    Plus, he told the team in March that he wasn't going to Phoenix because
    of a prior commitment. He then went on to say that non of the teams 1st
    round picks attended either event anyways.
    
    Ron

    I agree with the comments in .200.
    
    As far as Larry Brown and Rick Pitino go...I say the last thing we
    need right now is a mercenary coach who will opt out of their
    contract at the drop of another team's buck.  This team is bound to be 
    better next year...let's give the young guys a chance to grow (ML's
    forte, IMHO).
    
    Also, Larry Bird should be signing autographs at youth banquets, not
    trying to be the GM for this team.  Every time Larry likes a 
    prospective player in the draft, the guy ends up being a bust (oh boy
    let's get Cuonzo Martin :-) :-))
    
    There's been a lot of ML dumping in this file, but he's done exactly 
    what a lot of us were hoping for, for many years....be bad enough
    to get into the lottery.  The Montross deal is looking super right now,
    and in basketball, more than any other sport, you can rebuild a team 
    quickly through the draft.
    
    Also, the free agent signings that ML has completed are horrible,
    however, he has signed a lot of big guys with that money primarily
    because the Celtics had no one who could play center.  If I had a
    choice between keeping Montross and not signing these other guys,
    versus trading Montross and suffering through the
    Ellison/Brickowski/Lister/Szabo stifforama for one year, I would choose
    the latter.
    
    Finally, the Celtics broke the NBA record for games lost through injury
    this year, and because this happened during a season that they were
    marking time, it made for an unusually bad record.  I'm reading lots of
    quotes from the Celtic players about how ML has managed to keep things
    upbeat through this most difficult of seasons, and I think that
    attitude is of paramount importance for a soon-to-be-even-younger-team.
    I much prefer this approach of living through this and considering this
    season as a sunk cost, rather than watching Chris Ford badger and
    berate the young guys all season long just so the team can get knocked
    out of the first round of the playoffs.

    !. Do not bring back Carr as coach.
    
    2. Let Carr continue as Director of Player Operations or whatever his
    other title is.
    
    3. Sign David Wesley.  He's looking for $3.5 million.  Off him $2.5
    million for four years.
    
    4. Get rid of Rick Fox.  This owuld allow more PT for Williams and 
    Walker at small forward.  They could team with Dino to give the Celtics
    a very good forward rotation, with Marty Conlon in reserve.
    
    5. Get rid of Todd Day.  He served his purpose, which was to rid us of
    Sherman Douglas and his horrible contract.  The Bucks will pay Sherm 
    $4 million next season - HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
    
    6. Get rid of Brickowski, Lister, and Hamer (send him to Europe).
    
    7. Draft either Chauncey Billups or Antonio Daniels with the 6th pick.
    Conceivably, you could move down 3-4 slots and still get one of these
    two guys.
    
    8. Sign Larry Brown as coach.  He'll be perfect for a couple of
    seasons, then when he wants to move on, that's when you bring in
    Pitino.
    
    NAZZ

>    8. Sign Larry Brown as coach.  He'll be perfect for a couple of
>    seasons, then when he wants to move on, that's when you bring in
>    Pitino.

I thought Brown had already turned this down? I was way outta town and
missed a lot so I'd appreciate it if'n someone can bring me up to date on
the latest Larry Brown saga.

In any case, if'n ol' Larry would agree to a definite limit to his
tenure, say 2 or 3 years, it might work out fine for the Celtics.

I'm less sure of whether Pitino would take over then.

TTom

I'd like Fitch back, but that's unrealistic.  Brown may be the best available,
assuming no college coach (ie., Williams) would seriously think, at this time,
this is a better opportunity.

    
    	Read in the paper today that Rick Fox has exercised his "out"
    clause in his contract. Since he is a Canadien citizen, Toronto and
    Vancouver are high on his list.
    
    Ron

	In the latest installment of 'How the Basketball Bounces' ...

	It appears that Larry Brown is "out" as the Celtics top choice
	for coach ... his scheduled meeting with Paul Gaston has been
	postponed indefinately ... and it appears as if it is the Celtics
	who are calling the shots, some media types were reporting that
	Larry would like a shot at coaching the Celtics, but those
	in charge in Boston are dragging their feet/having second thoughts ...

	And, isn't it rather ironic that Larry Bird, acting on the
	Celtics behalf, contacts Larry Brown, current coach of the Indiana
	Pacers, about possibly coaching the Celtics next year ... then Donnie 
	Walsh, Pacers front office man, contacts Larry Bird about
	being Larry Browns replacement??? Weird ...

	Late night sports show last night did not discount the idea
	that Rick Pitino could be back in the running, if he could
	find a "nice way" to say good bye to Kentucky ...

	Three weeks til draft order (and the Celtics future) is determined
	
	Vinny

    I read over the weekend that Bob Hill could also be on the list
    of coaching candidates. Looks like a power struggle is going on.
    
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