Conference 7.286::boston_celtics

Where I mostly differ from Maj is in the early years.

I don't see the Celtics getting much better nexted year, not in terms of
wins. Similarly, I think it will take 3 years to get back into the
playoffs.

After that, I can see the rest of the timetable as likely, where
the odds are around 50-50 for this success.

TTom

	I won't start predicting records/timelines until after the
	lottery drawing on May 18 ...

	I can honestly see a Larry Bird type turn around for the Celtics
	*IF* they land the number one pick and another top three pick ...

	In this watered down NBA there is no reason a lineup of
	Duncan / Walker / Radja / Wesley / Mercer with Williams,
	Barros, Brown, Ellison off the bench couldn't win half their
	games (which would be about 25 games more than they did this 
	year) ...

	On the other hand, if the Celtics crap out in the lottery and
	end up with the fourth and eighth picks, then next year should
	be a salary dump year ... trade any player that doesn't fit
	into the long range plans for a practice ball and a roll of
	trainers tape ... suffer one more down year and then look to
	the free agent market next off season ...

	Most likely we will get something in the middle of those two
	extremes, but only time will tell ...

	Vinny

    
    You don't want too much of an improvement in the w/l's...or it would
    nullify a decent draft position. 

    
    
    
       Best case scenario....
    
       We get Duncan and our 2nd pick pans out. 
    
       30 wins next year.
       35-40 the following
       40-50  "    "
       45-60  Contenders..
    
      Worst case we get Mercer and the 8th pick.....
    
       Rebuild again next yr and get Lafrentz....

    I will merely predict they make the playoffs.  Duncan would be a big
    help.  Since I can't hurt my reputaion for going overboard I will say
    now that getting Thomas may be as good as getting Duncan.  My feelings
    on tt are very strong.
    
    Camby btw was far and away the best of the rookies and only behind
    Garnett in the young player group.  And a full training camp could end
    that.  I haven't changed on Marcus at all and would trade the draft
    pick for him tomorrow.

    They could reach .500 ball next season but in the East that doesn't
    get them a playoff spot...  I think they will try and do something
    THIS YEAR to get themselves a Decent Free Agent, of course I have no
    Idea who/what is left in there salary cap.
    
    The GREAT thing is as the bulls start to LANDSLIDE BIGTIME the Celtics
    could be in great shape to pick up where they left off....
    
    							MairB

    
    
    
    	A few notes back, something was mentioned about trading their
        second pick ( a possible 6th ) and Dee Brown, for a late first
        round pick! I don't see the logic to that...Can someone explain?
       
        RM
    
    

    
    RM,
    
    Whether or not you and I agree with the logic, here is the basic gyst. 
    Dee Brown has no desire to play for the Celtics and probably won't. 
    Since he gets (notice the lack of the word, earns) over $3 million per
    year, the thought was the Celtics trade a player they couldn't trade
    for in any other way, dump salary for the cap, and only lose 3
    positions in the draft, which shouldn't really affect anything.  The
    other team would be forced with Dee's contract, but get a slightly
    better pick as compensation.
    
    I seriously doubt this will happen, but it certainly wouldn't surprise
    me anymore.
    
    Marc
    

    The reason I would oppose that move is the C's need talent more then
    they need to get rid of Dee (or Dino,or anyone else). If Pitino
    improves the C's they probably will be in the lottery one more year
    after this. Take two top players this year, one more next and by the
    time Dee's contract runs out they'll be in the position to contend.
    Fans have been after the C's to lose to get top lottery picks.
    It would make little sense to deal down now that they have 2.
    
    Mike

By looking at successful teams of late, they did not necessarily rebuild through
the draft, but rather through proper salary cap managment.  The Lakers were able
to get Shaq, the Rockets were able to get Barkley and Drexler, Miami got
Mourning and almost got Howard...

The draft helps get a team out of the lottery, but to get to the top level
requires proper management of the salary cap.  Since the retirement of the
Big Three, the Celtics have done a poor job of that.  My original fear was
that Paul Gaston (The owner formerly known as Thanks-Dad) wasn't interesed
in spending the money to get the high caliber free agents.  He's beginning to
make me think otherwise.

Dan

     The Globe had a little article with Dee Brown saying that he has
    reconsidered his trade request, now that the Celtics have a real 
    coach.  I think it was on 5/7.  
     If healthy Dee could be useful backing up both 1 & 2. It might be 
    worth having him play so his trade value increases from absolutely
    nothing.
    
    Damon

    <----   I think this is what Pitino may have in mind. The reset
    in personel may be the trigger to help motivate Dee to be at least
    serviceable, and as mentioned to improve his trade/exchange value 
    to something greater than its current negative number. :-)
    
     2
    b

    
    I predict that Dee will be "reborn" under Pitino.
    
    Lou
    

    Well, basically with all the changes that have occured on the
    Celtics, it will almost be the same as Dee being traded to another
    team. Unfortunately for the Celtics, if Dee truely is "reborn"
    and can contribute to the Celtics, then fine, great. Otherwise his
    salary will continue to be a liability for the Celtics.
    Based on Dee's performance lately, as we've all been saying in here,
    it would be better if Dee is traded to another team for his sake,
    get into another environment, and be removed from the Celtics
    salary cap. So even if Dee is "reborn" he may still only fit in a 
    partial sense into Rick Pitino's plans, and as such because of
    his inflated salary, be a continued cap liability.
    So if Dee really wants to play for Pitino, he's going to have to 
    turn things around in a truely drastic and dramatic fashion. At Dee's
    current age, I don't see him changing his ways significantly.
    
    
     2
    b

    As far as I can tell, no team has ever won a championship, gone to the
    bottom of the league for several years, then come back to win another
    championship.  The Pistons had one down year, and they got Grant Hill,
    which made them immediately respectable but not championship caliber.
    The Lakers were barely in the lottery once.  The Bulls and Rockets
    haven't had a chance to go down.  The Sixers have wallowed in the
    lottery most of the seasons since Julius Erving retired.  Golden State
    has not been a serious contender since they last won a title, the same
    for the Bullets.
    
    My point is a one-time drop to the bottom of the league standings is
    about all a team can stand if it wants to maintain a winning tradition. 
    The Celtics are in a unique position with Pitino.  His hiring makes the
    rest of what has transpired in the 90s irrelevant.  He naturally
    harkens back to the championship days, even though those teams are only
    a memory.  He has a one year grace period to rebuild the team.  Next
    season they can finish with anywhere from 25 to 40 wins, and people
    will be happy.  His second year people will expect the playoffs, and by
    his third season, they will expect a legitimate title contender.  That
    schedule is ambitious by a full season, but by the 2000-2001 season,
    the Celtics should be in the NBA Finals.
    
    NAZZ

    Isn't that what Boston did pre-Bird?  They won titles in '74, '76?,
    then the bottom of the barrell before Bird came.

    I don't think they had the absolute worst record. I think they picked
    third that year.
    
    Maj

    The lowest the Celtics picked in the Wicks-Rowe era was third, but
    there's a long story behind that.  There was a lot of wheeling and
    dealing going on back there in the late 70s.  Here how everything
    shook out, best as I can recap it:
    
    1) 12/27/77 - Boston trades Charlie Scott to the LA Lakers for Don
    Chaney (he left Boston for a couple of years but finished out his
    career with the Celtics), Kermit Washington, and a 1st round pick (8th
    overall - Celtics selected Freeman Williams).  The Celtics own pick
    in the first round was 6th overall, and we all know who they took!
    
    2) 6/9/78 - Boston trades its 1980 first round pick to Indiana (23rd
    pick overall; Pacers selected Karl Nicks) for Earl Tatum.
    
    3) 8/4/78 - Boston trades Kevin Kunnert, Kermit Washington, Sidney
    Wicks, and the draft rights to Freeman Williams to Buffalo/San Diego
    for Nate Archibald, Marvin Barnes, Billy Knight, a second round pick in
    1981 (Boston selected Danny Ainge), and a second round pick in 1983
    (Boston sent this pick to Seattle in the Dennis Johnson trade).
    
    4) 10/19/78 - Boston trades Earl Tatum to Detroit for Chris Ford and a
    1981 second round draft pick (Boston selected Tracy Jackson).
    
    5) 1/16/79 - Boston trades Billy Knight to Indiana for Rick Robey.
    
    6) 1/17/79 - Boston trades Dennis Awtrey to to Seattle for a 1979
    #1 draft pick (21st overall - Celtics trade this pick to New York).
    
    7) 1/30/79 - Boston trades JoJo White to Golden State for a 1979 #1
    draft pick (9th overall - Celtics also trade this pick to New York).
    
    8) 2/12/79 - Boston trades three #1 draft picks to New York (its own,
    the 3rd overall - NY took Bill Cartwright; 9th overall - NY took Larry 
    Demic; 21st overall - NY took Sly Williams) for Bob McAdoo.
    
    9) 9/6/79 - Boston obtains two 1980 first round draft picks from
    Detroit (the 1st and 13th picks) as part of the compensation package 
    that began when Boston signed Detroit free agent ML Carr.  Detroit 
    obtained Bob McAdoo as compensation for Carr, and sent the two #1 picks 
    to Boston to complete the deal.
    
    10) 9/9/80 - Boston traded its two 1980 #1 draft picks (1st and 13th
    overall) to Golden State for Robert Parish and the 3rd overall pick.
    Golden State selected Joe Barry Carroll and Rickey Brown; Boston
    selected Kevin McHale.
    
    Two other transactions from the early 80s helped to complete building
    the 1984 and 1986 championship teams:
    
    1/14/83 - Boston traded Darren Tillis and its 1983 #1 pick to Cleveland
    (this pick was then traded by Cleveland to Phoenix) for Scott Wedman.
    
    6/27/83 - Boston traded Rick Robey and two 1993 second round picks to
    Phoenix (28th overall - Phoenix selected Rod Foster; 45 overall -
    Phoenix selected Paul Willams) for Dennis Johnson and the first round
    pick that originally belonged to Boston (21st overall - Boston selected
    Greg Kite).
    
    NAZZ
    

>    As far as I can tell, no team has ever won a championship, gone to the
>    bottom of the league for several years, then come back to win another
>    championship.  The Pistons had one down year, and they got Grant Hill,

     wrt to football, The Cowboys did just that but they only enjoyed
     just one season as the worst team in the league. I believe the
     next season, they got Troy Aikman(sp?) with their 1st round pick.

     now, back to your regularly scheduled basketball noting.

    Hmmm this is funny, the Celts did win it all in 76 and then had the
    3rd worst record and picked bird and then won the championship in 81
    Didnt they have the 3rd worst record again this season ?
    
    								MairB

    Second worst - they had 15 wins, Vancouver 14.  Everyone else had
    at least 20.
    
    NAZZ

    For some reason I thought the beat both Expansion teams record wise
    Oh well...  I for one being a Bulls Fan and knowing that they have
    at best 1 good year left in them Hope the Celtics can turn it around
    in 2 years....
    
    								MairB