Conference 7.286::boston_celtics

   
Leventhal's top 75 NBA draft picks

   By Don Leventhal
   Special to ESPNET SportsZone
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
   Here is an early ranking of the top 75 prospects for the 1997 NBA
   Draft (as of January 28, 1996):
   
No. Player                 Pos.  Ht.      Wt.     School
 1     Tim Duncan          C     6-10     248     Wake Forest
 2     Ron Mercer*         F-G   6-7      210     Kentucky
 3     Tim Thomas*         PF    6-9 1/2  240     Villanova
 4     Keith Van Horn      SF    6-9 1/2  235     Utah
 5     Jacque Vaughn       PG    6-1      195     Kansas
 6     Danny Fortson*      F     6-7      260     Cincinnati
 7     Brevin Knight       PG    5-10     173     Stanford
 8     Tony Battie*        F-C   6-11     225     Texas Tech
 9     Alexander Koul*     C     7-1      296     George Washington
10     James Cotton*       SG    6-5      200     Long Beach St.
11     Antawn Jamison*     SF    6-8      216     North Carolina
12     Cory Carr           SG    6-4      200     Texas Tech
13     Brian Skinner*      PF    6-10     245     Baylor
14     Anthony Parker      SG    6-5      185     Bradley
15     Tracy McGrady#      F-G   6-8      195     Mt. Zion Christian (NC)
16     Kelvin Cato         C-F   6-11     255     Iowa State
17     Jason Lawson        C-F   6-11     235     Villanova
18     Shea Seals          SG    6-5      210     Tulsa
19     J.R. Henderson*     SF    6-9      223     UCLA
20     Matt Harpring*      SF    6-7      228     Georgia Tech
21     Maurice Taylor*     F     6-8 1/2  235     Michigan
22     Reggie Freeman      SG    6-6      200     Texas
23     Austin Croshere     SF    6-9      230     Providence
24     Marc Jackson*       PF    6-9      270     Temple
25     Jelani McCoy*       PF    6-10     220     UCLA
26     Derek Anderson      SG    6-4      200     Kentucky (Injured)
27     Chauncey Billups*   PG    6-3      202     Colorado
28     Jerald Honeycutt    SF    6-8      245     Tulane
29     Keon Clark*         C-F   6-11     220     UNLV
30     Alvin Williams      PG    6-4 1/2  180     Villanova
31     Andre Woolridge     PG    6-1      190     Iowa
32     Chris Anstey        C     7-0      235     Australia Pro League
33     Maceo Baston*       F     6-9      215     Michigan
34     Toby Bailey*        SG    6-5      205     UCLA
35     Scot Pollard        PF    6-10     250     Kansas (Injured)
36     Isaac Fontaine      SG    6-3      215     Washington State
37     Charles O'Bannon    F-G   6-5      209     UCLA
38     Serge Zwikker       C     7-2      265     North Carolina
39     Eric Washington     SG    6-4      190     Alabama
40     Lorenzo Coleman     C     7-1      295     Tennessee Tech
41     Kenny Thomas*       PF    6-8      263     New Mexico
42     Ronnie Fields*      SG    6-3      185     Rockford (CBA)
43     DeJuan Wheat        PG    6-0      165     Louisville
44     Miles Simon*        SG    6-5      195     Arizona
45     Kiwane Garris       PG    6-2      183     Illinois
46     Odell Hodge         PF    6-9      280     Old Dominion
47     Ed Gray             SG    6-3      210     California
48     Johnny Taylor       SF    6-8      215     Tennessee-Chat.
49     Peter Aluma         F-C   6-10     240     Liberty
50     Garth Joseph*       C     7-2      291     St. Rose
51     Nate Erdmann        G     6-5      195     Oklahoma
52     Rodrick Rhodes      SF    6-6      220     USC
53     James Collins       SG    6-4      190     Florida State
54     Tunji Awojobi       SF    6-7      235     Boston U.
55     Mark Sanford*       SF    6-8      200     Washington
56     Jared Prickett      F     6-9      235     Kentucky
57     Dedric Willoughby   SG    6-3      190     Iowa State
58     Harold Deane        PG    6-1 1/2  175     Virginia
59     Damon Flint         SG    6-5      205     Cincinnati
60     Ace Custis          SF    6-7      217     Virginia Tech
61     Edgar Padilla       PG    6-1 1/2  175     Massachusetts
62     Eddie Elisma        PF    6-9      210     Georgia Tech
63     Charles Smith       SG    6-4      194     New Mexico
64     Jerod Haase         SG    6-3      185     Kansas
65     Bubba Wells         SG    6-5      225     Austin Peay
66     Greg Newton         PF    6-10     220     Duke
67     Mikki Moore         PF    6-11     220     Nebraska
68     Keith Booth         SF    6-6      222     Maryland
69     Danya Abrams        PF    6-7      265     Boston College
70     Stais Boseman       SG    6-4      200     USC
71     Shaun Igo           PF    6-11     225     Rice
72     Antonio Daniels     PG    6-4      195     Bowling Green
73     Jeff Myers          PG    6-2      185     Drexel
74     Lee Wilson          C     6-11     260     Arkansas
75     Kirk King           SF    6-8      236     Connecticut (Suspended)

*-Underclassman
#-High School Player

   Note: While certain players, such as Colgate's Adonal Foyle,
   Stanford's Tim Young and Kansas' Raef LaFrentz and Paul Pierce would
   be rated very highly among this group, I am not listing them at this
   time because I do not believe they're leaning toward making themselves
   available for the 1997 NBA Draft. The underclassmen and high school
   players that are listed are those that I believe are giving a lot of
   consideration to making themselves available for the '97 Draft.
   Undoubtedly, many of the underclassmen presently listed will make
   themselves available for this year's draft, while some will decide to
   remain in school. Only time will tell.
   
   Don Leventhal has been writing draft previews for more than a decade.
   He returns this season for ESPNET and he will update his rankings
   periodically leading up to the NBA draft. For further information on
   purchasing his two-part draft report (including 60 total pages),
   contact him at 800-950-3201.

    So much for Danya Abrams!
    
    If this stayed the way it's listed now, and the Celtics picked first
    and eighth, I'd be ecstatic with Duncan and Tony Battie.  I've seen
    Texas Tech three times this year, and Battie has been tremendous each
    time I've seen him.  He could swing behind Duncan and Dino, and Walker
    could start at the 3, with WIlliams as his backup.  What - no spot for
    Rick Fox?  Wadda shame!  ;-)
    
    NAZZ

	I agree on Tony Battie ... but I doubt he lasts until the
	eighth pick ... personally, I think he could move all the
	way up to Number 2 ... he is tall and still growing, right
	now he has the Marcus Camby type build, but he is very
	young and will probably fill out quite a bit ... 

	It would be a dream come true if the Celtics got both Duncan 
	and Battie ... it would be great if the Celtics got Duncan ...
	Battie would be my fall back pick ...

	Vinny

    Nazz, the way Fox has been playing, I think I would think
    twice about getting rid of Fox instead of getting rid of Dino.
    I suspect that when Dino get back he is going to have lost
    a step on his already too slow running ability let alone his
    leaping ability. Plus the fact that Dino is more of a single
    dimension player than Fox has shown, and I personally would
    rather have Fox than Dino on netxt years sqaud.
    It baffles me as to why you continue to persist that Fox can't
    hack it. You're certainly entitled to your oipinion, but the
    eveidence seems to show a higher value quotient for Fox over
    Dino, even if you take past years numbers on the Celtics, let
    alone this seasons cotributions. Of course this discounts injuries.
    If however one wishes to factor in the injury quotient, one could
    argue that Fox has shown himself to be a more durable player than
    Dino.
    That my take anyhoo. :-)
    
     2
    b

    Fox is 6-6; Dino is 6-10.  Dino can play some center; there are a half
    dozen guys on the Celtics now that could play small forward.  Fox is
    rarely a clutch player - he seems to panic in close games.  He goes a
    lot of things pretty well, but nothing very well.  Is he an outstanding
    3-point shooter?  Defender?  Rebounder?  Ballhandler?  The answer to
    all of those is no, but he's pretty good at all of them.  Fox would be
    an excellent swingman on a veteran team, where he could play 20-25
    minutes and not have to make shots at crunch time.  He'd be great on
    Miami, for example, filling the role Dan Majerle has.  He'd be a nice
    fit for Atlanta, backing up Ty Corbin and Steve Smith.
    
    Dino is going to make $5+ million for the next three years.  Fox has an
    option in his $1.8 million contract this year - he can opt out, or get
    about $2 million per for the next three years.  I'm betting he'll test
    the free agent waters, and the Celtics will have to pay him more than
    $2 million to get him back next year.
    
    NAZZ

Current Standings:

                     W    L    PCT  GB
Eastern Playoff Teams:
 1) CHICAGO         48    6   .889   -    
 2) MIAMI           42   13   .764   6 1/2
 3) DETROIT         40   13   .755   7 1/2
 4) NEW YORK        40   15   .727   8 1/2
 5) ATLANTA         35   18   .660  12 1/2
 6) CHARLOTTE       34   21   .618  14 1/2
 7) CLEVELAND       30   23   .566  17 1/2
 8) ORLANDO         27   25   .519  20    
------------------------------------------
Western Playoff Teams:
 1) SEATTLE         38   15   .717   -    
 2) UTAH            38   15   .717   -    
 3) LA LAKERS       38   16   .704     1/2
 4) HOUSTON         36   19   .655   3    
 5) PORTLAND        29   26   .527  10    
 6) MINNESOTA       27   27   .500  11 1/2
 7) SACRAMENTO      24   30   .444  14 1/2
 8) LA CLIPPERS     22   29   .431  15    
------------------------------------------
Non- Playoff Teams:
                                            Post trading deadline comment:
    INDIANA         25   28   .472  22 1/2  * Possible playoff team
    MILWAUKEE       25   29   .463  23      * Possible playoff team
    WASHINGTON      24   30   .444  24      * Possible playoff team
    GOLDEN STATE    20   32   .385  17 1/2  * Status quo
    PHOENIX         20   36   .357  19 1/2  * Improving from poor start
    TORONTO         19   35   .352  29      * Status quo
    DALLAS          18   34   .346  19 1/2  * Totally new team, less talent,
                                              better team attitude
    DENVER          17   39   .304  22 1/2  * Looking to rebuild next year
    NEW JERSEY      16   38   .296  32      * Improved talent base
    PHILADELPHIA    14   39   .264  33 1/2  * Coleman healthy?
    SAN ANTONIO     13   40   .245  25      * Where is David Robinson??
    BOSTON          11   43   .204  37      * Terrible road trip
    VANCOUVER       11   47   .190  29 1/2  * Not eligible for top pick

	IMO - It looks to me that Vancouver, Boston, San Antonio, Philadelphia,
	Denver and possibly Dallas will compete for the worst record in the
	NBA this season ... 

	Vancouver is young, with a decent frontcourt, but not much of a 
	backcourt ...

	Boston was a mediocre team last year that has been hurt by injuries
	this year (Ellison, Radja, Minor, Brown, Barros) making them a 
	very poor team ... 

	San Antonio has been devastated by injury (Robinson, Elliot, C Smith,
	C Person) ... and I bet they let Robinson sit out longer than
	neccessary to improve their draft position ...

	The Philly backcourt of Iverson and Stackhouse is inexperienced
	(currently) overrated, both players have terrible shooting percentages
	and high turnover to assist ratios ... not good ... and Coleman
	has been out with various injuries all year ... they could improve
	if Coleman plays to his potential (chuckle) ...

	Denver is playing for next year ... trading Jackson was a salary
	cap move ... I look for them to fall in the standings ...

	New Jersey will win more now than they did earlier ... Kittles is
	a very mature rookie ... Jackson, Gatling and Gill all have
	talent ... and McDaniel, Kleine and Cassell know how to win ...

	Dallas is an enigma ... I am positive that they gave up more talent
	than they got back, but team chemistry is important ... Michael
	Finley has really stepped up his game since Mashburn was traded
	away ... Bradley leads the league in blocked shots ... Harper
	and Green are respected veterans with pride ... there may not be
	much in this cupboard, but you can never rule out heart, and whats
	left in Dallas does have heart and a desire to play hard ... and
	a lot of nights that is the difference between winning and losing
	in the NBA ... still, I think New Jersey will pass them in the
	standings, and only Boston, Vancouver, Denver, San Antonio and
	(possibly) Philly will finish under them ...

	Vinny

    I hope you're wrong about Robinson.  Without him, there is no doubt
    that San Antonio will battle Boston and Vancouver for worst record in
    the league.
    
    And I hope you're wrong about Dallas, and they slowly sink to the
    bottom.  In my opinion, this is a four man draft - Duncan, Battie,
    Mercer, and Van Horn, in any order you wish for 2, 3, and 4 (and
    that's assuming Battie and Mercer come out).  Even if Vancouver
    doesn't finish first, they'll finish second and take Mercer, since
    scoring points from small forward or shooting guard appears to be their
    biggest weakness (Blue Edwards?).  If Dallas even does OK, that will
    push the Celtics pick to 7th or 8th, in the Brevin Knight, Jacque
    Vaughn, Tim Thomas area - certainly a major step down from the top
    four.
    
    NAZZ

    
    	Rick Pitino said that Ron Mercer was declaring himself eligible
    for the draft. Pitino feels that Mercer will be a top 4 pick.
    
    Ron

>>    I hope you're wrong about Robinson.  Without him, there is no doubt
>>    that San Antonio will battle Boston and Vancouver for worst record in
>>    the league.

	Judging by the USA Today report ... I think I am right about 
	San Antonio and David Robinson ...

SAN ANTONIO SPURS - Part-time starting shooting guard Vernon Maxwell (anemia) 
has missed several and is day-to-day. Backup small forward Monty Williams 
(strained right wrist) has missed several games and is day-to-day. 

Starting small forward Sean Elliott (right knee surgery) is expected to be 
sidelined until at least early April and will likely sit out the remainder 
of the season. 

Starting center David Robinson (surgery to repair broken left foot) is on 
the five-game injured list (went on 12/25) and is now expected to remain 
sidelined until at least sometime in March. 

Starting power forward Charles Smith (swollen right knee) is on the five-game 
injured list (went on 12/18), is out indefinitely and might miss the entire 
season. 

Key reserve small forward Chuck Person (back surgery) is eligible to come 
off the five-game injured list (went on 10/30) and may return to action by 
late February or early Marsh. 


Looks like we need (gulp) Dominique Wilkins and Vinny Del Negro to carry
the Spurs the last couple months of the season ...

	Vinny

btw - cynical people have always thought that the NBA lottery was fixed
      (ie. Patrick Ewing ending up in big market New York while Indiana
      gets Steve Stipanovich ... Penny Hardaway going to Orlando so that
      media creation Shaquille O'Neil gets his much needed point guard, etc)
      
      personally, I have never bought into this ... but if it were true,
      where do you think the NBA would like the "next great player" to
      start his career? In tradition rich Boston? With a young and improving
      club? Or San Antonio? With a team that already has an All-Star center?
      Would we see the next incarnation of the "Twin Towers"? Or Philly?
      To combine with bad boys Coleman, Stackhouse and Iverson?

    Does anyone know anything about that kid J.K. Sannii (sp) from Rice?
    
    He looked decent last night. Dunno what year he's in.
    
    I could handle a #1 and a #4 pick this year....pretty soon we'll all be
    looking at the remaining schedule and marking off potential LOSSES for 
    Dallas and Boston.
    
    Maj

All I could find was:

 40  Jarvis (Kelley) Sanni F    6-9   215     JR

He's averaging less than 19.0, less thab 9.5 rebounds, less than 6.0
assists, less than 2.4 assists and less than 2.8 steals. Or in other
words, he's not on the NCAA leader board.

TTom

    Jarvis Sanni was known as Jarvis Kelly when he played for Arizona.
    Changed his name when he transferred.  He's a junior, first year of
    eligibility.  The BMOC at Rice is supposed to be the 6-11 senior center
    Shaun Igo.
    
    NAZZ

    I've been thinking about this for quite a while.  Assuming the best for
    the moment and getting Tim Duncan with our first pick, what do we do
    with the Dallas pick?  Right now, it doesn't look like that pick will
    be any better than 6th.  I go back and forth over what the Celtics will
    really need, given who's injured, who's playing where, and who's coming
    back.
    
    Part of me wants Jacque Vaughn as a backup for David Wesley.  Part of
    me wants Anthony Parker as a legitimate shooting guard.  Part of me
    wants the next best center, whoever that is.  And part of me wants the
    best player available, regardless of position.  My question is, should
    the Celtics draft based on who they have coming back, or how a player
    projects into the future without regard for the current team members?
    
    NAZZ

    I say draft the best athlete available and fill the remaining needs
    during the summer via free agency or trades.

	Wow ... I agree with Mike ...

	*Providing* the Celtics get the Number 1 pick with their
	own pick, the Celtics should take the best player available
	with their second lottery pick (the Dallas pick) regardless
	of position ...

	The last time the Celtics drafted for position over talent, we
	passed up Eddie Jones for Eric Montross ...

	Get the best players you can, then use trades, free agents to 
	round out the roster ...

	Vinny

I think the answer to that question depends on whether they can sign 
David Wesley before the draft.  THAT should be ML's top priority.  They
have no one else who can play point guard on that team!  If they lose
Wesley they'll need to get a real point guard from somewhere.  I'm not
sure what the free agent crop looks like.  Hey, is Sherm Douglas a FA? :-)

Dan

    I'd go with the best guard available. They are loaded with guys who
    play the 3 and the 4 slots so I'd try to bolster the backcourt with the
    best shooting guard available.
    
    Maj

I'm not sure Maj.  I think that Minor and Fox should be able to handle the
2 spot.  Fox is a more natural 2 than 3.  He was a very good backup for
Reggie when he first came up.  I also believe that Minor has the ability
to be a Byron Scott-like 2 guard.  He needs more confidence with that outside
shot, though. 

IF they get Duncan, and Wesley stays, I think they should look for another
big front-court player.  Somebody with a lot of muscle!  Dino does NOT like
to bang around under the boards and Duncan even seems to be a David Robinson
type of center.  He may even be better off playing power forward instead of
center.  I think they need another big guy!

As Red always said, "you can't teach height!"

Dan

    Hey maybe they can get Ri Myong Hun :-)  There's an article in today's
    USA Today, this Guys 7-9 and scored 27pts vs the USA Olympic team...
    (He's 28years old)...
    
    Dallas is the 7th worse team so unless something flukie happened
    they Celts would get 2+7 Unless they can blow a few more close 1's
    and get the 1st pick overall...  It be something if Boston/Dallas 
    picked 1+2 :-)
    
    							MaB

    Danny,
    
    Fox a 2??? Remember....his nickname is "Brick" Fox.
    
    I'd like to see them get a pure shooter as well as a big man. If they
    can't get Duncan I'd settle for either Battie or Foyle.
    
    Maj

    With Foyle coming out, this might change their thinking if they don't
    get the #1 pick.  If they end up with #2 and #6, for example, they
    might take Mercer with the #2 pick and hope either Battie or Foyle is
    still around at #6.  I think Foyle will be, and he's a natural low post
    player.
    
    NAZZ

Question for the pundits:

Is Adonyl Foyle any better at this point than Yinka Dare was? Obviously,
Dare played against a much better group of players and teams than Foyle.

TTom

>>    Fox a 2??? Remember....his nickname is "Brick" Fox.

Yea, I know!  But he's been playing out of position for the past few 
seasons.  Most of these guys are probably confused as hell out there
because there roll keeps changing.  I think he'd be a very nice backup
for Minor.  Who's going to back up Duncan or Radja?  Pervis?

Dan

    Dan,
    
    I think they are all confused about their roles. I just don't see
    Fox as a confident shooter.
    
    * * * * * 
    
    Maj

    After watching Van Horn last weekend I'd love for the C's to get him.
    But how many big guys is too many? Radja is still 5 mill in cap. Unless
    you could deal him (doubtful) and you have a lot of big bodies. Duncan,
    Dino, Walker and Williams is a nice front line which you could rotate
    nicely so you wouldn't need another big guy. I like Vaughn. He seems to
    be a winner.
    
    Mike 

    Adonal Foyle is the real deal.  Incredibly athletic, quick off his
    feet, nice turnaround jumper (but only up to 8-10 feet), powerful
    rebounder, great shot-blocker.  Needs to work on his FTs (under 50%).
    
    NAZZ

	My take on the top draft picks (only counting seniors and those
	who have declared for the draft, will change as others declare):

	1. Tim Duncan
	2. Ron Mercer
	3. Keith Van Horn
	4. Adonal Foyle

	The rest are late lottery and mid first round picks ... for the
	Dallas pick to be valuable, the C's need the likes of Tim Thomas,
	Tony Battie and Raef Lafrentz to be in the draft ...

	Vinny

	btw - Here's a thought, the Celtics win the lottery and draft
	Tim Duncan ... if Adonal Foyle was still available with their
	second first round pick (not far fetched, most analysts have him
	in the 5-8 range), would you take him?? 

    
    Why not?  An athletic big man is a hot commodity.  At worst, you end
    up with a surplus and trade one for what you need.  It seems to be 
    easier to get productive guards than it is to get productive big men.
    
    -R

    As you know, you can't teach height!
    
    NAZZ

Maybe you can put one more into this mix:

Tracy McGrady just declared for the NBA instead of college. McGrady plays
for semi-local Mt. Zion Christian Academy in Durham.

He's 6-9, 215 lbs, averaged 25 pts, 8 boards, 7 assists, 3 steals and 3
blocks per game, leading Mt. Zion to as high as #8 prep rankings.

He's also only 17.

TTom

>> Tracy McGrady just declared for the NBA instead of college. McGrady plays
>> for semi-local Mt. Zion Christian Academy in Durham.

	Funny that he turns pro today ... I was just reading about him
	on one of the Celtics mailing lists ... his high school coach
	stated that he was the second best player in North Carolina
	(after Tim Duncan) ... although Mr. Rice and Mr. Mason in 
	Charlotte may have something to say about that! :-)

	The only problem with drafting a high school player - NBA rules
	limit the team/player to a three year contract, so the Celtics
	would spend the three years developing him, then when he is
	ready to contribute, he has the chance to leave as a free agent ...
	This is concern for all NBA teams drafting youngsters, not just
	the Celtics ...

	Depending on who else declares (Battie, Thomas, etc), I would
	put McGrady in the mix for the Celtics second first round choice ...

	Vinny

    Is Kansas center Raef La Frienz(sp?) coming out this year? I'd take him
    over any big man out there.  I've seen highlights of this guy and he'd
    really help the Celtics. 
    
    Duncan is too soft in my opinion!
    
    JW

    If these kids can land on an nba team and get some actual playing time
    it's hard to argue against them going.  It's so athletic that the young
    bones are just as well jumping in the nba as in a very much different
    type of game, college, not to speak of all the up and down in college
    practice.  Not to speak of the non-nba habits they have to unlearn (not
    bad, just non-nba).
    
    Other sports like track and field have > 22 year old stars.  Baseball
    in its history had players like Bob Fella, Ty Cobb starting in very
    young (18-20).  The nba union probably didn't think this out before
    signing their agreement though.  Perhaps a professional minor league
    setup is aborning.

    McGrady, from all indications, is nowhere near as developed as Kevin
    Garnett was at the same time.  He also plays small forward, the one
    position where the Celtics need little help.  Lamar Odom, the other HS
    kid rumored to be turning pro, is not ready to contribute either, but
    he's at least a legit 6-9 and 220 pounds.  McGrady is 6-7 1/2 and about
    180.
    
    NAZZ

    At first glance, 215-220 seemed a little light to me for someone who 
    is 6'9".  Then I noticed that Larry the Legend was the same height and
    weight.

	Re. Tim Duncan

	Its funny, there are definately two schools of thought out
	there ... 

	(1) You have the local media yahoos who start the Celtic 
	    section of each sportscast with the "Tim Duncan Lottery"
	    watch ... these guys (and many fans) think that the Celtics
	    will draft Tim Duncan and he will turn the franchise around
	    in one year the same way that David Robinson turned around
	    the Spurs ...

	(2) The second school of thought is that Tim Duncan is too soft
	    (the ONLY knock I have heard about Tim) and that he reminds
	    people of Brad Daugherty ...

	Are either of these accurate? Personally, I don't think so ...
	But if I had to choose sides I would lean towards the savior
	more than the softy ...

	Tim Duncan is the best player available in this years draft,
	period. He would have been the number one pick last year,
	and he will be the number one pick this year. He is a two time
	first team all-American and will win most (if not all) Player of 
	the Year Awards. He is the closest thing you can get to a sure
	thing to come out of the draft in a while.

	He is an intelligent, mature young man who has his priorities
	straight. He is personable and well liked. I haven't heard a 
	negative thing about him. And the man can play basketball.

	And, if the worst thing anyone can say about him is that he
	reminds them of Brad Daugherty, then that person should be
	reminded that Brad was an All-Star center who averaged better
	than 20 points and 10 rebounds a game, defended well, and
	knew how to pass. Those aren't bad things.

	Foyle has potential ... La Frentz is a good player ... Mercer
	could be an explosive scoring force in the NBA ... but Duncan
	is the prize of this draft ... and unless he ends up in San Antonio
	(with David Robinson) he will be a CENTER in the NBA (and even
	in San Antonio he might play center with the Admiral moving to
	power forward) ...

	Vinny - hoping the C's get to draft Tim, anything more is a bonus,
	        anything less is a consolation prize

The final playoff spot in the east currently belongs to:
 8) ORLANDO         33   28   .541  20 1/2

The final playoff spot in the west currently belongs to:
 8) LA CLIPPERS     26   34   .433  18    

The lottery teams:
 INDIANA         29   32   .475  
 WASHINGTON      28   33   .459  
 MILWAUKEE       26   36   .419      
 PHOENIX         24   38   .387      
 GOLDEN STATE    23   38   .377  
 TORONTO         22   40   .355      
 DALLAS          20   41   .328  
 NEW JERSEY      18   43   .295  
 DENVER          18   44   .290      
 PHILADELPHIA    16   45   .262  
 SAN ANTONIO     15   47   .242      
 BOSTON          12   51   .190  
 VANCOUVER       11   53   .172  

So, Boston lottery fans are (obviously) rooting for the Celtics and
Mavericks to lose ... and for Vancouver, San Antonio, Philadelphia,
Denver, New Jersey, Toronto and Golden State to win ...

A couple huge games in lottery land this week as the Celtics take on
Dallas (who do we root for in that game? the optomist says someone
has to lose, the pessimist says someone has to win :-)) and San Antonio ... 

Vinny

>So, Boston lottery fans are (obviously) rooting for the Celtics and
>Mavericks to lose ... and for Vancouver, San Antonio, Philadelphia,
>Denver, New Jersey, Toronto and Golden State to win ...

Unfortunately, the Mavs beat the Knicks, Vancouver lost to the Bugs, the
Sixers lost to the TWolves, and the Nuggets lost to the Magic.

At least we should give a tip o' the hat to Mike Heiser as the Suns let
Toronto win ;-)

TTom

    Thanks a lot, Knicks - thanks for nuthin!
    
    First time in my life I root for the Knicks last night, and look what
    happens!!!  Then Denver blows a lead, the Sixers blow a bigger lead....
    
    NAZZ

    I had my misgivings when Dallas made that trade.  Perhaps too many
    people were too sure that a guy like Nelson had lost his marbles.  I
    will agree that perhaps he could have had more for the names involved,
    but perhaps not.  But I feared at the time that he had indeed made that
    team a lot better for 1997 and who gives a fig about Dallas > 1997.
    
    Now I'm afraid they'll make a run at the playoffs.  The phrase "There
    are five of them and Rick Smits" can now be changed to "and perhaps
    Bradley".

re: McGrady.

McGrady is a guard, at least that's the position most often cited for
him, as in:

 "The 6-foot-9, 200-pound senior guard at Mount Zion Christian Academy"

He aspires to be the nexted Penny Hardaway.

TTom

    At 6-9 and at best 200 lb, McGrady's a real skinny guard. 
    He's too skinny, too young, and as a result, too imature
    for the NBA at the age of 17. 
    I wouldn't touch him.
    
     2
    b

    Camby hit the game-winner in Phoenix too.

    Not with either of the Celtics' #1 picks, that's for sure.  If I were a
    team that was reasonably stable, and wanted to invest in the future, I
    might take a flyer on this kid with a #1 pick in the 18-24 range.
    
    NAZZ

How big/heavy was Kevin Garnett when he entered the league?

I'm not saying to take McGrady just that I wouldn't worry all that much
about his height/weight. 

How he plays the game is the principal concern.

TTom

    Garnett was listed at 6-11 220 when he came into the league, but he's
    supposedly at least 7-1 now, but doesn't want to admit that he's more
    than 6-11 (kinda like Bill Walton, who thought if he were 7', he'd be 
    thought of as a freak, so he had himself listed at 6-11 even though he
    was 2-3 inches taller).
    
    NAZZ

    
      I heard on the radio yesterday that ML Carr called the NJ Nets to see
    if they wanted to TRADE #1 picks. According to the announcer, the Nets
    thought ML was fooling. ML explained if they made the trade, the other
    teams wouldn't figure the C's were losing games to have the chance to
    get the #1 pick of the draft. Is ML playing with a full deck ?
    
      Jim

    Sounds like whoever on the radio attributed that comment to ML 
    isn't playing with a full deck.
    
     2
    b

    I heard it also. It was ML talking, not someone attributing it to ML

    Somebody needs to fire him quick.

    Re: .78
    
      It was ML actually speaking, so it wasn't someone else passing the
    story or rumor on.

    .79
    
      Guess you beat me to the punch... You answered .78 with the same
    reply.

    
    
      It was ML but it was back in November before the season got started.
    Weei had a big story about it yesterday. 
    
    
    
    Chap

    The logic being that neither team would then be accused of tanking when
    they lost close games.  As noted, this proposal was suggested months
    ago, not last week.
    
    NAZZ

	Everyone is assuming that Vancouver will get the second pick
	in the draft and select Ron Mercer from Kentucky ...

	But, I just read that the Grizzlies may be intersted in moving
	that pick for a veteran ...

	This could be a GREAT place for the Celtics to try and work 
	a deal ... the Celtics have veterans to spare :-), the Grizz
	are under the salary cap, and the Celtics have an extra draft
	pick to deal with ...

	Wonder if Stu Jackson would be as bad a general manager as he is
	a coach? :-)

	Vinny - 12 games to go and counting

	Victor Page of Georgetown has declared himself eligible for
	the draft ... my only question is 'WHY?!?'

	He is a 6'3" shooting guard with a 38% shooting percentage ...
	Isn't that what the CBA is full of?

	Reading between the lines (comments by Page, Thompson), it
	appears that Page may not have been cut out for the
	'strenuous' acedemic requirements of life at Georgetown ...

	Not someone who should effect the draft order of lottery bound
	teams ...

	Vinny

    Re: .86
    
    Please.........say it isn't so.....a Georgetown player not able to
    cut the academics???????  We must be turning a new page.  Aw shucks...
    I remember lots of guys at that school studying hard all night up
    until mourning.  And if you should get in late from partying, you 
    do what I did at test time......ewing it.  
    
    I can't quite put mutumbon it, but I'd say that Coach Thompson 
    should be able to prop 48 of these guys up at any one time in order
    to make sure they get to their tutoring sessions.  In fact, 
    i'verson who would like to go to college some day, only I hope he 
    doesn't party hard at college and find that he's too sleepy to 
    take the test.
    
    Can any of you folks remember any other Georgetown players having
    this problem???? 

    Victor Page will be fortunate if he is a first round pick.  But when
    you've already dropped out of school and think your sh*t don't stink,
    you see the NBA as your only option.
    
    NAZZ

    
    Victor Page?!  My grandmother could have scored 20 on 6 for 32
    shooting.  He just kept shooting brick after brick, and he still
    kept shooting!  The only times he didn't shoot were when he was
    on the bench resting his arm.  And what amazed me about all of
    this was that John Thompson didn't even scold him for any of it!
    Victor heaved bricks throughout the Big East tournament and the
    one NCAA tournament game.  I can't see him going in the first
    round.  I can't even see him being drafted!  Just MHO.
    
    Lou
    

	Good news for the Celtics lottery odds this weekend,
	the Celtics lost to Philly on Friday night, the Mavs
	lost to the Bulls and the Cavs, the Nets defeated the
	Knicks (double dose of good news) and both Philly and
	Denver won on Sunday ...

	The Celtics are standing at 13 wins with 10 games remaining,
	one game ahead of Vancouver ...

	The Mavericks are still at 22 wins, one win behind the New
	Jersey Nets and only two games ahead of the 76ers and the
	Nuggets ...

	And, in the rumor of the day department ... a Boston radio
	station reported this morning that *if* the Kentucky Wildcats
	win the NCAA Championship, ML Carr will be stepping up to
	the front office and naming Rick Pitino the next coach of the
	Boston Celtics ... another rumor, Mitch Albom (Detroit NBA
	writer) called Larry Bird as Celtics gm a "Done deal" ...

	They may be bad, but they certainly aren't boring!

	Vinny - Who thinks that ML should get boat loads of credit
	 	if all this comes to pass, he has been the ultimate
		company guy and taken tons of criticism, but one
		lucky bounce of the ping pong ball and the whole
		franchise could be turned around ...   

    Vin,
    
    I more or less agree with you, but...
    
    	...is it really good to have the fortunes of a multi-
    	million dollar enterprise riding on the bounce of a
    	Ping Pong ball?
    
    :-)
    
    Roland

>> but one lucky bounce of the ping pong ball and the whole
>> franchise could be turned around ...   

Vinny, I wish I could feel this optimistic!  But, I really believe that the
Celtics will be hard pressed to be a championship contender unless Thanks-Dad
Gaston either sells the team or removes himself from any and all team
decisions.

I really don't think the guy has any interest in building a championship
team, especially if the cash keeps rolling in.  They may make it as a playoff
team in a couple of years but we won't be returning to the glory days unless
he's out of the picture.

I hope I'm wrong!

Dan

    So what do the Mercer fans think now?  Looked to me like he's not in
    shape for the NBA schedule.

	Re. Gaston

	Hey Dan,

	Funny you should mention Gaston the way you did ... I have
	different views about him ... I don't think he cares about 
	the Celtics (similar to Jeremy Jacobs and the Bruins) but
	I have never viewed him as cheap ... as a matter of fact,
	I kinda thought the opposite ... the reason the Celtics are
	in such bad shape salary cap wise is becuase they have 
	OVER spent on so much mediocre talent (Brown, Barros, Ellison)
	his problem is that he did not put the right people in the
	right positions ... Volk, Gavitt, Carr ... the Celtics need
	a solid basketball person running the show, and that they
	don't have ...

	
	Re. Mercer

	My opinion of him hasn't changed ... he was not at his best
	last night, but that doesn't mean he isn't a great player ...
	while the announcers harped on the "two games in three nights"
	angle, I have to wonder how much the legs cramps he has been
	suffering affected his game ... and last night I saw something
	that made me drool ... the way Mercer would draw the defenders
	out to him at the perimeter, and then pass nicely into the
	low post ... I could envision a Mercer - Duncan outside - inside
	game on the Celtics ... then I woke up! :-)

	So let the rumors begin, will he or won't he? Pitino stays at
	Kentucky or comes to Boston (or goes to another NBA club)? 
	Bird in as gm?

	May 18 - six weeks away ...

	Vinny

    I don't view Gaston as cheap, but rather indifferent, especially to
    salaries as they pertain to performance.  Even with the payroll they
    had last year, the Celtics netted $10 million or so, which means to me
    that Thanksdad isn't sweating the nickels and dimes.  Which also may
    mean that he isn't concerned about a team that could lose 70 games in a
    season.  Which also may mean he will keep ML Carr on as both
    coach/director of player personnel.  Almost any other coach in any
    other sport would be fired for the abysmal won-lost record Carr has
    posted, despite the injury factor.  I doubt Gaston will fire Carr,
    which is too bad for us, the Celtics fans.
    
    NAZZ  

	Add Danny Fortson (power forward, 6-7 260) from Cincinnati and
	Mark Jackson (center/power forward, 6-9 270) from Temple
	to the growing list of underclassmen eligible for the draft ...

	Fortson may effect the C's second first round pick, but Jackson
	is rated as a middle-first round pick ...

	In draft lottery position news ... the C's lost to the Bulls
	last night in a game that had all the intensity of an exhibition
	game (Pippen 24 minutes, Jordan 27 minutes), the Mavs lost
	to the Pistons and the 76ers won their third in a row! Philly
	is only one game behind Dallas in the win column ... unfortunatly, 
	the Grizzlies lost again ...

	Coming down the stretch, we need the Nets to stay ahead of the
	Mavs, for the 76ers to catch the Mavs, and the Grizzlies to catch
	the Celtics ... this would give Boston its best odds in the
	May 18th ping pong ball drawing ... (I have given up on the
	Nuggets catching the Mavs) ...

	And, in free agent news, the Bulls signed Brian Williams (he of
	Magic/Nuggets/Clippers fame) to a contract for the remainder of
	the season ... the Bulls sign him now, he gives them Dennis
	Rodman / Bill Wennington insurance for the playoffs ... then after
	the season the Bulls cut Dennis loose and re-sign Williams to the
	big buck contract he was looking for ... smart salary cap management 
	by the Bulls ...

	Vinny

                  -< Still, a shooter or a backup PG is a need >-
    
        As you know, you can't teach height!
       
    The Lakers were incredibly successful in the middle 80s with a team
    where almost everyone was around 6'9", with the exception of Kareem. 
    The way they were able to switch on defense, therefore, was a major
    advantage.  The Lakers were able to do this because most of these big
    men were also mobile - eg. Michael Cooper, Magic Johnson, A.C. Green,
    and goggle-face (I can't believe his name escapes me!) :-)
    
    The Celts of the 80s were also incredibly successful, and it was all
    because of their height.  The Cs did it mainly with power, the Lakers
    did it more with speed, but both had the size, and nobody else at the
    time could compete with either team.
    
    I think we should go for talent first, but if at all possible, we
    should look FIRST for BIG talent, and go with whatever is left when the
    best of the big is gone.
    
    Brian    2-APR-1997 11:32:10
    

    If M.L. Carr blows the lottery by winning at this point he should be
    fired from both posts.  As it is, normal life begins after the draft
    when M.L. becomes accountable again for winning and this painful but
    necessary cure for "Milwaukee disease" ends.

    re: .97  goggle =  Kurt Rambis
    

    re .99,
    
    	I think .97 is thinking about James Worthy.
    
    Ron

    In the Globe today there's a report that Bird has talked to Pitino
    about coaching the C's when/if Larry is the GM. Gaston supposedly ok'd
    this. I wonder what's up?
    
    Mike

    Okay, they've spun those balls and San Antonio is a big upset has
    pulled out #1, Vancouver has #2, the Celtics #3.  Perhaps, M.L. and the
    brain trust say, SA will swap.  They have a center.
    
    What'll it take and what would you give up?
    
    Would you give up the Dallas pick to swap with Spurs?

    I heard Lobel at 11 lasted night claim that he had heard a story
    saying that Bird had an interview with the LA Clippers for a
    coaching job. Who's kidding who? Does the Boston media take
    themselves so serious that they have to report every crackpot
    rumor they think will draw attention to their station?
    It's really getting down right crazy with the media. It doesn't
    matter whether it's politics, or sports, don't bother checking your
    sources. If the story has some drama, or controversy, play it out
    and worry about your credibility later.
    
     2
    b

    Well the Pitino story wasn't a rumor. Pitino confirmed that LB has
    talked to him twice about it. Once during the season and once this past
    week. LB is forcing Gaston's hand. 
    
    Mike

    Except LB contacted Pitino at the express wish of Gaston.  There
    certainly is a power play and the Glove now reports that Red is ticked
    off at Bird ostensibly because of a comment he made about 'always
    disagreeing with Red'.
    
    I'd say it's now the Red/M.L. camp vs Bird with Gaston willing to dump
    M.L. if Bird can land Pitino.

Celtics fans, take note. There's been a David Robinson sighting.

He caddied for Corey Pavin in yesterday's Masters practice round. When
asked what in the wide wide world of sports he was doing there, he
claimed he was rehabbing.

Not to worry, though. San Antonio is a full 8 games back in the loss
column in the lottery race.

TTom

	Reportedly, God Shammgod, point guard for Providence,
	has put his name in for the NBA draft ...

	Personally, I think Shammgod would have benefitted from 
	another year in college, but apparently, some people got 
	into his head and convinced him he is ready ... then again,
	this kid has never lacked confidence ...

	May be a factor for the Celtics if they choose to use
	the Dallas pick to unload salary and trade down in the
	first round ...

	One scenario I heard mentioned was, if Larry Bird was calling
	the shots, the Celtics would take Duncan with the top pick
	(assuming they get the top pick), then trade the Dallas pick
	with Dee Brown to some team for their lower first round
	draft pick, which they would use to select Austin Croshere
	from Providence ... this gives the Celtics two good players,
	helps eliminate the log jam at shooting guard, and gives
	Boston salary cap room ... sounds like a winning proposition
	(and a realistic scenario) to me ...

	Vinny

Vinny, 

I heard that God hasn't signed with a_agent so he'd be eligible to return
to Providence if he doesn't like where he goes.

Croshere's play in the NCAAs helped his stock a lot.

TTom

    Vinny,
    
    I'm looking for a decent guard in this draft and that could mean that
    you'd want to stay in the top 12 picks. If they could dump Dee Brown
    and the Dallas pick for a lower pick hopefully they could grab someone
    like a Reggie Freeman, Cory Carr, or Shea Seals. 
    
    I'm not convinced that Croshere will do well in the NBA.
    
    Maj

|I heard that God hasn't signed with a_agent so he'd be eligible to return
|to Providence if he doesn't like where he goes.
    
    I always thought Providence was but one aspect of God ;-)

TTom,

>> I heard that God hasn't signed with a_agent so he'd be eligible to return
>> to Providence if he doesn't like where he goes.

	I thought they did away with this rule ... I know that Shawn Respert
	used it, but after that, the NBA/NCAA abandoned this option ...

>> Croshere's play in the NCAAs helped his stock a lot.

	Sure did ... I don't see him as a perennial All-Star, but I would
	compare him favorably to Tom Gugliotta ... inside and outside
	scoring, passing, rebounding, a complete player ... would be
	a very complimentary player to any team ...

Vinny

	Maj,

>>    I'm looking for a decent guard in this draft and that could mean that
>>    you'd want to stay in the top 12 picks. If they could dump Dee Brown
>>    and the Dallas pick for a lower pick hopefully they could grab someone
>>    like a Reggie Freeman, Cory Carr, or Shea Seals. 

	I think that Celtics could drop to the early teens and still get
	a decent player ... but please, stay away from the Reggie Freeman's
	of the draft, the guy scores a lot, but his shooting percentage is
	terrible!

	If you want to go 2-guard, check out Derek Anderson (Kentucky)
	if he is completely healed or Cory Carr (Texas Tech) or 
	Anythony Parker (Bradley)

	Cleveland would be a great place to look to trade with, they have two
	picks (their own, and I think, Phoenix' pick) in the late lottery/
	early teens and could afford to take on a player to move up ...
    
>>    I'm not convinced that Croshere will do well in the NBA.
    
	Disagree with you ... probably not an all-star, but a valuable
	contributor who could help any team ... besides, Providence has
	a tradition of turning out good forwards ... Otis Thorpe, Michael
	Smith (the good one, not the Celtics player), Marty Conlon :-) ...

Right now, the top prospects for the draft are (imo):

1. Tim Duncan
2. Ron Mercer
3. Keith Van Horn
4. Tim Thomas
5. Adonal Foyle
6. Danny Fortson
7. Chauncey Billups
8. Antonio Daniels
9. Brevin Knight
10. Tracy McGrady
11. Kelvin Cato
12. Cory Carr
13. Jacque Vaughn
14. Shea Seals
15. Austin Croshere
16. Derek Anderson
17. Anthony Parker
18. Andre Woolridge
19. Reggie Freeman

There are four levels to this draft:
Top level:    Tim Duncan
Second level: Ron Mercer, Keith Van Horn, Tony Battie (if he enters),
              Adonal Foyle, Tim Thomas (rep over production)
Third level:  Forston, Billups, Knight, others I listed above
Fourth level: Everyone else

You can move a couple players up or down a level, but don't change the top
level ...

Vinny

    Ol' God make be quick on the court, but he's not so quick goin' to the
    library.  He is a Victor Page type entrant, in that he might have no
    other option since his grades are so bad.
    
    NAZz

    At this point I will predict that Thomas goes number two although if
    San Antonio gets #1 they might swap Duncan for Thomas and the Celtics
    #6 (maybe a player involved or future draft).
    
    But it seems Thomas isn't my secret anymore.

	News reports are indicating that the two Kansas forwards,
	Raef Lafrentz and Paul Pierce are staying in school,
	and that Tony Battie WILL be declaring for the NBA draft ...

	This is very good news for the Celtics, should they not win the
	lottery on May 18, they would still have a shot at drafting a
	talented big man ...

	Vinny's Updated Top Ten (two of which will become Celtics):

	1. Tim Duncan
	2. Ron Mercer
	3. Tony Battie
	4. Keith Van Horn
	5. Tim Thomas
	6. Adonal Foyle
	7. Antonio Daniels
	8. Chauncey Billups
	9. Danny Fortson
	10. Cory Carr

    Vinny,
    
    I wouldn't mind Cory Carr in green.
    
    Maj

from http://www.nba.com

1997 NBA Draft Lottery Chances

Team		Record	Chances Pick 1	Pick 2	Pick 3
Vancouver	14-68	 250	 0.00%	 45.96%	 18.43%
Boston		15-67	 200	27.51%	 11.77%	 16.85%
San Antonio	20-62	 157	21.60%	 10.24%	 15.41%
Denver		21-61	 120	16.51%	  8.43%	 13.20%
Philadelphia*	22-60	  89	12.24%	  6.59%	 10.65%
Dallas**	24-58	  64	 8.80%	  4.93%	  8.14%
New Jersey	26-56	  44	 6.05%	  3.49%	  5.85%
Golden State	30-52	  24	 3.30%	  1.95%	  3.33%
Toronto*	30-52	  23	 0.00%	  4.23%	  4.00%
Milwaukee***	33-49	  11	 1.51%	  0.91%	  1.56%
Sacramento	34-48	   7	 0.96%	  0.58%	  1.00%
Indiana		39-43	   6	 0.83%	  0.50%	  0.86%
Cleveland	42-40	   5	 0.69%	  0.42%	  0.72%
			1000	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%
   
   * Philadelphia has the right to "swap" picks with Toronto. Also,
   Toronto has the right to "swap" its pick (or Philadelphia's pick, if
   Philadelphia "swaps" picks with Toronto) with Dallas for Minnesota's
   First Round pick.
   
   ** Dallas pick traded to Boston

   *** Milwaukee has the option to convey this pick to Phoenix.
   
   NOTE: Per their expansion agreements, Vancouver and Toronto can not
   select first in the 1997 or 1998 NBA Drafts. In the event one of those
   teams qualifies for and wins the 1997 NBA Draft Lottery, that team
   will be entitled to the second selection in the 1997 NBA Draft.

Good luck to the Celtics and their fans. 

By Monday we'll know where Tim Duncan is headed.

TTom

    The celtics have NO LUCK at all when it comes to the draft... They had
    a 36% chance of the #1 pick, finished with the 2nd worst record and
    they end up with the 3rd and 6th picks... Have to see just how good
    Patino is, either trade up for Duncan or come up with 2 solid picks
    and a Free Agent...
    
    							MairB

    I couldn't figure out how the Celtics had a greater chance of getting
    the third pick and not the second pick. That's what the Sunday Boston
    Globe was saying.
    
    After the initial knee-jerk reaction of cursing the NBA and San Antonio
    (like the Celtics the Spurs kept key people on the sidelines, Like
    Robinson with season ending injuries) and Philly, God I hate
    Philly....I started to rationalize what the Celts should do.
    
    Regardless of what everyone says there are no guarantees that Duncan
    will be as good as everyone says. Unless a blockbuster deal is pulled
    off Duncan will play in SA. Assuming that let's move onto Philly. With
    Stackhouse and Iverson in place they need to go for a center and Battie
    is the obvious choice.
    
    The Celtics are next and although there are a lot of Van Horn fans out
    there I would guess that Mercer would be the prize. The Celts need a
    big guard who can score and not be a defensive liability. Mercer fits
    the bill.
    
    I think with the 6th pick I'd go with either Cato or Foyle. Cato
    probably played against better competition. Either way, regardless of
    who the Celtics were going to get for their big man I was looking for
    someone who could deliver double figures in points and rebounds every
    night. If that means 15/12 and a half dozen blocked shots per game that
    sits well with me.
    
    In no way would I give up #3 and #6 for Duncan or trade #3 to SA for 
    Robinson.
    
    Little did i know that when I had read the Globe yesterday and wondered
    about the probability of getting #3...that it was gonna happen.
    
    Maj 
    

	Ouch.

	Well, the announcement that the Celtics will draft #3 and #6
	took a little of the air out of the optimism balloon yesterday ...

	Looks like the rise from cellar to championship contender will
	take a little bit longer time and require a little more work
	on the part of Rick Pitino ...

	First order of business for the C's: hire a general manager ...

	Then, start weighing your options ... try to trade for Tim Duncan?
	(Rick has already called the Spurs - and I would trade #3&#6 for #1) 
	... evaluate who you are going to draft (Battie, if available at #3,
	but he probably goes to Philly, unless they trade Stackhouse, that
	leaves Mercer ... Foyle at #6?) ... determine the status of Wesley 
	(probably back) and Fox (probably gone) ... try to clear salary cap 
	room ...

	Lots of work to be done ... 

	Vinny - So, anyone else think Larry Bird will draft Austin Croshere
		and trade one of the Davis boys?

    
    
       SA won't take the # 3 and #6 for the number one.

    
    	The Celtics did get lucky, they could have been picking 4th and
    6th. Unbelievable that San Antonio, Philadelphia, and Boston got
    picked before Vancouver. I'd give San Antonio 24 hours to accept the
    3rd and 6th picks for the #1. As far as trading a pick for David
    Robinson. I wouldn't trade a pick. I'd give them Brown and Radja for
    Robinson.
    
    Ron

    
      Keeping the picks doesn't look like such a bad idea.  At 3 you will
    be able to get one of the key second tier players:
    
    		Keith Van Horn
    		Tony Battie
    		Ron Mercer
    		Tim Thomas
    
      At 6 you get to take Mr Foyle. Who was once considered every bit as
    good as Camby,(at least in his High School days.)  In addition, some
    fairly good players have come out of small programs. Vinnie Baker,
    Scottie Pipen and Robert Parish to name a few.
    
      Personally, I like Foyle's upside and believe that with some top
    coaching he will make an excellent center.  At first I believe he will
    be better defensivly, but his offence will develop over the next 2-3
    years.
    
      I hope we don't trade our picks.
    
    
    Damon    

    
    	San Antonio has to decide which direction they take to try and win
    a championship. I might have my green glasses on, but I don't think
    putting Robinson and Duncan together, is the best choice. If they want
    to contend for the championship in the next 6 seasons. The #3 and #6
    would upgrade ANY 2 starting positions except center. Making the current
    starters 6th and 7th men. IMO upgrading your weaknesses it better then
    adding to your strength. A combination of (Robinson, Battie/Van
    Horn/Thomas, Daniels/Mercer/Billups) plus what they have. Is better
    then Robinson/Duncan plus what they have.
    
    Ron 

    No way I trade 2 top ten picks for #1 especially 3 and 6th lets face it
    this is a long term project to rebuild the C's I would pick in my spot
    then try something someway in the free agent market amd hope we
    don't make the playoffs next year and maybe get #1 then.
    Harry

    I think #3 and the #6 for Duncan is *TOO MUCH*.  There's nothing saying
    he's going to be a dominant center in the NBA.  He could even play PF
    next to the Admiral.  If it was Shaq or Zo coming out, you might think
    about trading both picks, but not Duncan.  
    
    If Pitino was smart, he'd offer a current player plus the #6 for the
    #1.

    
    Add my name to those few of us who don't think Tim Duncan is an
    automatic for the Hall of Fame.  It would have been nice to get
    the first pick and draft him, but all is not lost without him.
    Trading our #3 and #6 to San Antonio for their #1 is foolish, even
    if the Spurs agreed to it.  If we stick with our picks, I'd take
    Van Horn and Foyle.
    
    Lou
    

    You better not be one of those people who backs MR. Foyle because he 
    can't run and chew gum at the same time.  TIMMY D. is the only worthy
    player to invest in.  Van Horn is the next Michael Smith from BYU, 
    you remember that wise draft pick.  #3 and #6 Radja, Brown and Pervis
    for the #1, IMHO.

    I've only seen Foyle play on TV twice (and never in person), so I'm
    hesitant to comment on how good he is or how good he can be.  I do know
    that he had some big games against very good competition in Colgate's
    non-league schedule.   For example, this year Colgate's non-league
    schedule included Nebraska, Bowling Green, Syracuse, Indiana, St.
    Bonaventure, and Canisius.  Not too bad.  I think Colgate lost all
    those games, though.  As a sophomore Foyle averaged over 20 ppg, 12 rpg
    and almost 6 blocks.  I don't know his numbers for this season, but
    they were better.  Still, it's hard to project how good he could be in
    the pros.
    
    NAZZ

    Re:248.129
    
    I would gladly trade 3,6, Radja, Brown and Pervis for #1.  If they would
    take Barros I would add him to the trade.  This would open up cap space
    in a major way and next year you could pick up a free agent of your
    choice.
    
    However, a trade has to work both ways and this one wouldn't.  I agree
    it is time for a reality check.  However this one is a little green.
    
    
    Damon 

    
    Why in God's name would San Antonio take on Brown, Radja, Pervis
    #3 & #6????  You have 3 average players at best, who are all
    waaaayyyy overpaid.  Brown is on the cap for $5+ million, Dino
    is $5.5 million and Pervis is on for $3 million.  that's roughly
    13.5 million PLUS $2.7 million for the #3 pick and another $2.2 million
    for the #6 pick per the collective bargaining agreement.
    
    No team in the league is stupid enough to take on that load.
    
    
    CF

    Every year the scouts, coaches and press moan about how the draft is
    weak, everyone stinks and there is nooone worth drafting. I'm not a
    huge Duncan fan but he is the best pick this year. BUT unlike a Bird or
    even a Danny Manning, Duncan did not pull his team to deep into the
    NCAA his Senior year. Didn't his team lose to Van Horn and Utah? Their
    supporting casts were almost equal I believe. And last year when he
    went against Camby he sure didn't blow Camby away. 
    So I'm not too upset that Duncan is headed to San Antonio. I'm more
    upset that the incompetent 76ers can get another high draft pick to
    blow. Battie is probably headed there. So the C's if they dont'deal
    will probably get two from Van Horn, Thomas, Billups and folger.
    Are these kids All Stars next year? No. But with Pitino as a coach and
    knowing that he probably played against (or in Mercer's case for) most
    of them I think he'll come away with 2 players who'll have a bright
    future. Or maybe he deals the picks for some young players who might be
    looking to move on after next year (Vin Baker). How about Baker and the
    Bucks #1 (9th) for the #3 pick and Williams? 
    The Spurs may have the #1 but the C's enter the draft with alot of
    ammunition.
    
    Mike
    
     

>    ... Didn't his team lose to Van Horn and Utah? ...

Not quite. Wake and Duncan lost to Brevon Knight and Stanford who then
lost to Van Horn and Utah.

It seems that the previous raves for Duncan when the Celtics mighta got
him are fastly being replaced by variations on not all that great.

TTom

	Not all of us have changed our tune TTom ...

	Put me in the 'dissappointed' camp ... I was really hoping the
	Celtics would get the #1 pick and a second high lottery pick
	this year ... I think that Tim Duncan is going to be a GREAT pro
	player, a player that will give it his all every night, a
	player that any fan would be proud to cheer for ... I see a 
	lot of David Robinson in him (ie. the way he carries himself)
	and, championships or no championships, this is the kind of
	player I enjoy watching and cheering for ...

	The Celtics with Tim Duncan, another high lottery pick, 
	the return to health of some of last years players, and the 
	addition of Rick Pitino as coach would have made the Celtics 
	legitimate playoff contenders NEXT year, and would have given 
	them a solid foundation for the future ...

	Now? Who knows? They still may get that foundation, but it isn't
	as clear cut (to me anyways) ... the #3 pick may end up being 
	Ron Mercer (provided Philly takes Battie) and in a dream scenario
	this could be another draft like the Olajuwon/Bowie/Jordan draft ...
	Now THAT would be great! :-)

	I agree with Larry Bird and Kevin McHale on their philosophy of
	building a team ... in todays salary cap NBA you need to get 
	THREE stars, then fill in with complimentary players around them ... 

	The 80's Celtics had Bird/McHale/Parish ...
	Their counterpart Lakers had Magic/Kareem/Worthy ...

	The 90's Bulls had/have Jordan/Pippen/Grant(then Rodman) ... plus
	an assortment of one dimensional or limited players, ranging from
	old man Cartwright to Longley at center, BJ Armstrong to Ron Harper
	at point guard, Kerr and Kukoc off the bench ... 

	McHale has Gugliotta, Garnett and Marbury as his foundation, he 
	needs to add a rebounding/defensive center and a two guard who can 
	spot up and defend to 'fill in' ... the Celtics have (maybe) Antoine
	Walker as one of their pieces ... they need TWO more STARS
	before they fill in around them ... if they had gotten the #1 pick,
	Tim Duncan would have been the second star, then they could take a
	chance with their #6 pick (like Antonio Daniels) or they could
	have used the pick to unload a bad contract, freeing cap space
	and thus setting themselves up to get their third star thru free 
	agency ... you need stars to win in todays NBA, Tim Duncan will
	be a star, one or two of the other players in this draft may turn
	into a star, but which one(s) will that be? This is where Rick will
	have to earn his big bucks, its his job to determine who of the
	Battie's, Mercer's, Van Horn's will be a star in the future ...
	
	I am still hopeful for the future, but my optimism has been tempered
	
	Vinny

    Chicago and Utah are playing in their conference finals and neither
    team in my opinion has a strong center. With that in mind I say that
    the Celts go for Mercer at #3 and the best player available at #6.
    
    And who else knows more about the draft personnel than Pitino? He knows
    exactly what type of player will fit in his scheme of things.
    
    Vinny I'm with you...the kid from PU is right up there at the top of 
    Bird's list....because Larry feels he may be the best available when
    his pick comes up...I'm not convinced he'll be the best available but
    Bird may think so.
    
    Yeah everyone had Duncan at the top of the list because the kid has a 
    head on his shoulders. A lot of GMs prefer getting the college senior 
    instead of the college freshman. On average it works better...except in
    the case of John Wallace I guess. Not to change the subject but does
    anyone else think Charlie Ward's career may be checkered after this 
    series with the Heat?
    
    Maybe you give San Antonio either the #3 or #6 and next year's #1. I
    would not give them both. 
    
    Who's to say that Pitino will just think about drafting a big guard and
    a big forward and alternate his forwards in the center spot? Danny
    Ainge showed that at times having four quick guards on the court can be
    very productive.
    
    
    Maj

    If I were a betting man (which I'm not), I would bet money that the
    Celtics will be involved in entertaining MORE inquiries in the days
    leading up to the draft than will San Antonio.  Pitino has a bunch of
    options that he can go to by virtue of the fact that he has two of the
    first six picks.  This is a wonderful position to be in.
    
    Tim Duncan would have immediately filled the Celtics need at center if
    he were available to the C's.  However, I'm tickled about the
    possibilities that the Celtics do have.  They are likely going to end
    up with two guys who can also help them right away, that they can add
    to their young stars already on the roster, like Walker and Williams.
    If they re-sign Wesley, they will have five young guys who can all
    contribute.  No offense to Tim Duncan, but, I can easily visualize
    building a Kentucky-style attack & defense with these five guys just
    like Pitino has had over the last two seasons.
    
    My own personal preference would be to use the picks on a big guard and
    a big power forward.  That would make Radja and Day expendable, and
    Minor as well.  Then, on draft day, Pitino has a whole bucketload of
    forwards and guards, both existing and recently drafted, and he can
    wheel and deal from a position of strength, because he can deal with
    teams looking for players at the positions he is rich in, rather than
    trading the pick(s) to teams who don't know if they will get a player
    at their needed position or not.
    
    In other words, don't be surprised if at least one of the Celtics picks
    ends up wearing another team's hat by the end of the night.
    
    Not getting Duncan pops our balloon dream of getting a long-term center
    which the C's desperately need.  But let's not lament.  Every other
    team with the possible exception of San Antonio (and I do include
    Philly) would probably give their eye teeth to be in the position that
    Pitino is in.
    
    This is going to be both interesting and fun.  I'm psyched.

    I didn't want to come off as I didn't think Duncan wasn't the top pick
    because he is. But there was too much gloom and doom about losing
    Duncan that it sounded like people thought the C's wouldn't get
    something positive out of the draft. 
    From what I've read and heard that after Duncan and Battie (who could
    be better down the road then Duncan, there is 6 or 7 players at the
    next level. Van Horn, Mercer, Billups, Thomas, Foyle, Daniels and the
    kid coming out of High School McGrady.Van Horn would probably be the
    safest pick at 3. 
    
    Mike

    
    
        Well I too am very disappointed the Celts didn't get that number 1
    pick, but life does go on and 3 and 6 isn't to shabby. This is how I
    see the early part of the draft shaping up unless someone impresses big
    time at the pre draft camps.
    
    1 San Antonio       Tim Duncan    EASY ONE
    2 Philly            Tony Battie   Philly needs a big man.....
    3 Boston            Ron Mercer    A 6'7 2 Guard is hard to find!!!!
    4 Vancouver         Tim Thomas    A reach could be a washout....
    5 ??????            Probably Van Horn The old best athlete available
    6 Boston            Tracy McGrady HS Kid Pitino loves him he could be
                                      great. A good gamble at this point.
    
          We may be better off with these two picks in the long run believe
    it or not. With Duncan we were gonna win 25-40 games next year. With
    these two player we still may only win 18-23 and we might get Rafe
    Lafrentz next year if the balls bounce right. I think Lafrentz is gonna
    be the best player in the league in 5 or 6 yrs!!!
    
      Well I can dream can't I???
    
    
    Chap

    I dunno Chappy...something about HS kids kinda scares me. I think we
    all agree that Mercer is #3 but I don't see a consensus for #6.
    
    They could go with a number of players. I think the #6 pick will be
    Foyle, Thomas, Cato, or possibly Van Horn. It will definitely be either
    a center or a forward.
    
    Maj

    Mercer may be the pick by the Celtics at number 3 because of the Pitino
    connection or not for the same reason.  Rick has a pretty good track
    record at judging talent and he's seen the crop a lot more than I have.
    
    But as for "all agree" on Mercer, I repeat that Tim Thomas is the guy
    that most will wish they picked when they look back.  I used to like
    Mercer a lot and perhaps Pitino's system wore him down quite a bit.

    I was just gonna ask about Tracy McGrady after seeing the ABC news
    special on him last night.  I don't agree with high schoolers in the
    NBA, but he's awfully talented.

   I find it 'interesting' that a lot of folks, especially the
   media/press, have Duncan pencilled in as a bonafide NBA all star
   before playing one game. And it's even more intersting if you
   factor in his performance in the NCAA tournament. 
 
   I'm not suggesting that he's not worth the #1 pick but I don't see
   the reason for such hype. It almost shades of the "Patrick Ewing
   draft" back in 198?. Ewing clearly dominated the NCAA but did Duncan ?

    RE HS players
    
    With the NBA draft becoming more like the NHL Draft (most early picks
    take 2-3 years to develop because they are so young) teams must be able
    to scout the HS ranks. Looking back Should the C's have taken Sean Kemp
    instead of Michael Smith. The TWolves made out big time with Garnett
    and Kobe Bryant and Jermaine Oneal have shown promise. None of them
    played College ball.
    Pitino has to decide if he wants the kid or not. I hope they don't pass
    him up solely because he never played college hoops.
    
    Mike

    Jermaine O'Neal of Portland seemed to have some regret last night on
    skipping college.

    I'd pass on McGrady. I listened to him last night on Nightline.
    I came away with one strong impression. He's on an ego trip.
    I didn't hear him say one thing that smacked of being the right
    thing to say for someone in his position to say. He did seem
    to show one thing quite clearly, and that is that he hasn't
    yet faced humility, nor has he been humbled. For his sake at
    his tender age, I hope he experiences one or the other real soon.
    Otherwise his ego is going to crash so hard, he may not be able
    to recover from it.
    Yes, he has some wonderful talent, but against whom has that talent 
    been playing up against? I'd rather see him play some ball against
    some college level talent naturally picked from the best from the
    high school crop. Then I'll feel more comfortable about evaluating 
    his potential for the pros.
    McGrady is the high school basketball equivalent of Tiger Woods
    in terms of raw talent. However from what I've seen and heard of 
    McGrady, he appears far far less prepared to become a professional
    athlete than Woods was at the same age.
    
     2
    b

    Glad Peter May of the Globe isn't pulling the strings. He's talking Van
    Horn and McGrady for the Celtics. I think I'd go with Mercer/Foyle
    before Horn/McGrady.
    
    Maj

    Yup, I'd either go with Mercer/Foyle or Mercer/Thomas.
    
     2
    b

    
    	I'd go with Mercer and Daniels, imagine the C's with a backcourt
    of 6'7" and 6'4".
    
    Ron

    For starters Tim Thomas is a much better prospect than Antoine Walker
    was.  Much more polished player with excellent passing and playmaking
    skills.
    
    I have this feeling that this draft could be like the one where Detroit
    was stuck with Hill and everyone wanted Robinson.  Unquestionably even
    I would take Duncan first but Pitino will make a big mistake if he
    doesn't take Thomas.

    OK with who they have and who they can get what are some potential 
    starting 5 (and top 3 bench spots).  Grabbing best athlete is nice
    but they need 5 on the floor and a few key folks off the bench.
    What does/can center look like ?  Who will be back ?
    
    Guards: Wesley/Brown			Minor/Barros
    Forwards: Walker/Radja/Fox/Williams		Lister/Conlon/Driggers
    Centers: Ellison/Hamer/Szabo
    
    I know there's a few guys they want to keep and then there's a few
    guys they HAVE to keep if you start with them what are there biggest
    needs and can they fill them ????

	Hit and run time:

	- The worst thing about not getting the top pick? Having to
	  listen to the laughs and taunts of the Celtic-haters out 
	  there ... I can hear Dr. Midnight laughing at Lechmere now ...

	- I have faith in Rick Pitino ... this is the guy who turned 
	  Mark Jackson (a first round draft pick in the teens, I 
	  believe) into a rookie of the year ... he has been coaching
	  or coaching against the players in this years draft, he 
	  knows who the players are and who the pretenders are ...

	- New course of action: let Wesley walk, let Fox walk ... bring
	  in young players, develop a system, see who pans out, then 
	  build around them ... patience is still the key, we will not
	  have an instant turn around, it will take a few seasons ...

	- I have said it before, and I will say it again, Tim Thomas 
	  is NOT the answer ... the kid hasn't won anything at any level
	  (high school, AAU, college) ... he has all the physical skills,
	  but he is SOFT ... he prefers to hang out at the perimeter ...
	  he reminds me of Glenn Robinson ... he will put up great
	  offensive stats, but will not mix it up underneath, will not
	  defend, and will not be a "winner" ...

	- Players I like in this draft (after Duncan) include Mercer,
	  Battie and Daniels ... Foyle has that infamous 'potential'
	  tag and is intriguing ... give me any two of these guys and
	  I would be happy (curious) with the draft ... just stay away
	  from Thomas, Fortson, Cato please ...

	- Draft strategy should be "draft the best players available", period 
	  the Celtics need to subscribe to the three star theory, assemble
	  three star players, then build around them, regardless of
	  position ... the Celtics have lots of role players, but they
	  have only one potential star player - Walker - and even he
	  has question marks ... 

	Looking forward to the rebuilding process ... all the difficulties
	will just make the next championship even sweeter ...

	Vinny

    
    re .150   Do you think Thomas will be there at #6?? How big is he? A
    guard or forward?  
    
    And whats wrong with Van Horn, he looks to me from the games I've seen
    to be the real deal.....whats he 6'10??  Van Horn, Walker, Williams
    with Thomas and Wesley??  Young 5 but could be interesting.....
    
    Now for Mercer, did someone say him and Walker don't like each other?
    And is he really as good as they say, Who was the guard that got hurt
    for Kentucky that the announcers were saying was the real leader for
    them??  
    
       I'm just not sold on Mercer.....but I am for keeping the picks and
    rebuilding rather than trading but Dee Brown and the #6 for Vin Baker
    is interesting.....
    
    /Westy
    

>    Jermaine O'Neal of Portland seemed to have some regret last night on
>    skipping college.

He really had no choice. He couldn't get into Div I. So if'n he wants to
regret something, how about preparing himself for passing the SATs.

FWIW, I think he's doing fine with his decision. We get some press
locally about him cause he's from just down the road a bit.

TTom 

    The big reason people do not like Van Horn is Michael Smith. I saw him
    and I liked his range and his rebounding. For 6-10 though he didn't mix
    it up in the middle too much. Someone will pick him and he'll be fine.
    
    FOX Sports last night reported that Pitino offered the Spurs their 2
    first rounders this year and a future #1 and ANY Celtic except for
    Walker and Radja and were turned down.
    
    Mike

	>> Do you think Thomas will be there at #6?? How big is he? A
    	>> guard or forward?  
    
	Thomas may be available at six ... he is one of the players
	Pitino was talking about ... group him in with Van Horn, Mercer,
	Battie, and Foyle as guys who could all go from #2 to #7 
	depending on who is drafting ...

	Thomas is about 6'10 and will probably play small forward in
	the NBA ... he has good shooting/passing skills but plays
	a soft game ...

    	>> And whats wrong with Van Horn, he looks to me from the games 
	>> I've seen to be the real deal.....whats he 6'10??  

	Nothing is wrong with Van Horn ... he is a 6'10 tweener ... is
	he a power forward or a small forward? His skill set is very
	comparable to Antoine Walkers, so why duplicate the one good
	player you have?
    
    	>> Now for Mercer, did someone say him and Walker don't like each other?

	Taken out of context ... Walker (coreectly) pointed out that
	the Celtics had lots of guards and that their biggest need
	is a big man ... and anyway, they don't have to like each other
	to play together ... Larry Bird and Kevin McHale were never
	good buddies, but they did all right on the court together ...

    	>> Who was the guard that got hurt for Kentucky that the announcers 
	>> were saying was the real leader for them??  
    
	Anderson ... look for him to be drafted somewhere in the first
	round ... a two guard with skills, but a questionable injury
	history (two different leg injuries) ... btw - it was his injury
	that helped Mercer make his decision about going to the NBA,
	Ron didn't want to jepordize his pro career after seeing his 
	teammate go down like that ...

	btw - Anyone else notice that three of the Celtics salary cap
	contract anchors expire in three years (Radja and two others)?
	the same time that Duncan becomes a free agent ... :-) Now
	if we could just clear Barros, Ellison, Brown off the books ...

	Vinny    

Jerry Stackhouse, Joe Smith, Rasheed Wallace, Damon Stoudamire, etc., are
all available for the bidding in another year.

NBA rookies will be coming off their prescribed 3 year contracts ever
year.

It's really gonna change things because up to this point, the major
rookies had typically signed for 5 or more years.

TTom

    Vinny,
    
    Nice to see someone else who also is anti Danny Fortson. Fortson is
    like Danya Abrahms and whatisface from Arkansas (I forgot his name).
    
    In college they fit well but in the pros they are either too
    small/light to play up front or too slow to play in the backcourt.
    
    If I'm an NBA coach next year and my team is playing Van Horn's team
    I'm gonna test the kid physically....and I'm not sure Keith will be up
    for that.
    
    The key is to get someone big, fast, and physical. I think Mercer/Foyle
    is the combo.
    
    Last week at this time the Celtics were looking at Duncan and ???? now
    I'm sure they're looking at Mercer and ???
    
    Maj

Corliss Williamson.

If'n you wanna play this tweener game, ya gotta have the heart and hussle
of Sir Charles. Fortson is no where near this. Hail, he's no where near
LJ.

I'd say the Fortson would be a good fit for say Dallas.

TTom

    Hey Breen - you can keep tryin' to sell the rest of us on Tim Thomas,
    but there are very few knowledgable noters buyin'!!!  Thomas did NOT
    come to play every night at Villanova, and that is the one thing that
    Pitino continually stresses when talking about "young people".  He
    wants to see full effort every night.  Thomas was inconsistent at best,
    and rarely played any defense.  He's a thin 6-8 1/2, so he must play
    the small forward.  Is he going to be a better player than say Eric
    Williams?  probably, but Williams will be better in a Pitino system.
    
    As for the draft, word I heard today is that Philly likes thomas, and
    if they can move either Stackhouse or Weatherspoon could take Thomas
    at #2, leaving Battie for the Celtics.  If Battie goes to Philly, I
    look for Pitino to trade out of the #3 spot, maybe to Golden State in
    a package for Joe Smith or to Milwaukee for Vin Baker.
    
    NAZZ

    Re -1
    I'd be very disappointed if Pitino doesn't do a lot of wheeling and
    dealing. I don't think any team has had 2 picks in the top 6 in the
    past 10 years. I think Golden St is concerned Smith may leave next
    year. 
    My hope if they stay where they do is, Battie and Billups. Next best
    would be Mercer and Foyle.
    
    Mike 

    I didn't see Thomas playing "soft" as much as I saw him drift while
    Lawson and the upper classmen did their thing.  Mercer as a frosh was
    not in the main mix at Kentucky although he was critical in the big
    UMass win.
    
    But if you're hearing Philly talking Thomas then the cat's out of the
    bag and the Thomas discussion is moot.
    
    Now this coming year Camby is going to be a dominating player, far
    better than the likes of Walker, Iverson (ugh) and the other rookies
    who laughably finished ahead of him in rookie balloting.  You want soft
    I'd check out Rahim.  But Camby will put Toronto right up at the top
    plus they'll have a top 10 pick themselves.
    
    Then will come the Tim Thomas development.  The full package including
    a stopper on defense.  Unfortunately he's going to that pest hole
    Philadelphia and could become another lost talent.  But he's not one
    dimensional like Stackhouse this kid along with everything else can
    shoot lights out.

	The latest rankings from Don Leventhal (ESPNet) have the
	following players at the top:

	1. Tim Duncan
	2. Tony Battie
	3. Ron Mercer
	4. Keith Van Horn
	5. Antonio Daniels
	6. Tim Thomas
	7. Adonal Foyle

	Swap Thomas and Foyle and I can see this being the actual draft
	order ... 

	Supposedly, Daniels has really impressed the Nuggets and, unless
	local product Chauncey Billups blows them away in a private
	workout, they will tab him at their number 5 pick ...

	And, the more I READ (not as good as seeing), the more I like
	Foyle ... he is very athletic and is smart (great GPA at Colgate)
	His downside is inexperience and lack of competition ... well,
	the Celtics need players for the future, not in 1997-1998, so
	I say go for it with the #6 pick ... then build around a young 
	corp of Mercer, Walker and Foyle ... this could lead to the
	re-signing of David Wesley ...

	Vinny

	btw - a rumor on the net is Tim Duncan for Shawn Kemp (plus) trade ...

	If teams drafted players strictly according to their TENDEX 
	rating (a player evaluation system based on statistics) the 
	draft would look like:

	1. Wake Forest center Tim Duncan goes to San Antonio, 
	2. Utah forward Keith Van Horne is selected by Philadelphia, 
	3. Colorado point guard Chauncey Billups is drafted by Boston,
	4. Vancouver gets Kentucky forward Ron Mercer, 
	5. Denver drafts Villanova forward Tim Thomas,
	6. Boston picks Kentucky guard Derek Anderson, and 
	7. Bowling Green point guard Antonio Daniels is chosen by New Jersey.
	Rounding out the lottery picks by TENDEX, 
	8. Golden State drafts Texas Tech center Tony Battie,
	9. San Jose State guard Olivier St. Jean heads to Toronto, 
	10. Colgate center Adonal Foyle goes to Milwaukee, 
	11. Sacramento selects Iowa State center Kelvin Cato, 
	12. Indiana drafts Cincinnati forward Danny Fortson, and 
	13. Cleveland nabs Stanford point guard Brevin Knight.

	Players with a lot of college (TV) hype that should be avoided, 
	according to TENDEX, include Kansas point guard Jacque Vaughn 
	and Michigan forward Maurice Taylor.


	

    What possible statistics could be of any use in evaluating college
    talent.  I could see evaluating the conference the player was from
    putting more emphasis on the Big East over the PAC12 for example (but
    then you'd have to exclude Arizona thinking of Kerr and Stoudamire).
    
    The best statistic I can think of would be to get as many ratings from
    ex NBA'ers on kids they had actually seen, get a history of same to
    determine those who can rate and can't vs actual performances of
    players they have rated highly and vv and then develop a system from
    that.
    
    For example if Cedric Maxwell has a strong history of accurate
    appraisal then his high rating of Thomas and low rating of Foyle would
    be my "Tendex?.

	Well, don't be looking for the Celtics to draft Adonal Foyle
	from Colgate ...

	Unless Rick Pitino is throwing up a smoke screen, his 
	comments would indicate that he isn't overly impressed
	with Mr. Foyle ... he does compliment his intelligence,
	but remarks that he is "only" 6'9 and that he will
	probably be a good power forward in 3 - 4 years ...

	Rick also seemed to indicate that he was leaning towards keeping
	both draft picks, but they were keeping their options open ...

	Vinny - who suddenly has visions of a Mercer/Daniels draft ...

    I'm inclined to think that Pitino is not even considering drafting a
    center this year and may look towards getting the best available
    backcourt duo he can find.
    
    We'll find out in three weeks.
    
    Maj

My view on the top of the draft:

(1) San Antonio. Takes Tim Duncan (really going out on a limb here :-)).
    Yeah, they will listen to the Scottie Pippen or Shawn Kemp offers,
    but they will take the center from Wake to make one of the best (and
    most versatile) front lines in the NBA. 

(2) Philly. Derrick Coleman will be traded, probably to Toronto (near his
    Detroit home town) after the salary cap goes up on July 1. Rumor has
    the Raptors sending their first round draft pick (Cato?) to the 76ers.
    Philly needs size, badly. They are undersized at almost every position with
    Iverson, Stackhouse, Spoon and ????. Logic says they take Battie from
    Texas Tech, but this is Larry Brown, he may take Mercer. 

(3) Boston. Pitino has told Dino Radja that he is not getting traded and
    that he will be playing center. Comments from Dino show he is looking
    forward to the challenge and isn't worried about playing center in
    Rick's scheme. Sounds good to me. The Celtics need talent, pure and
    simple. They go with the 'best player available': Ron Mercer. Unless
    Rick knows something we don't, then he takes Keith Van Horn.

(4) Vancouver. Trades the pick. They want a veteran power forward and a 
    point guard. Have already offered their pick to Indiana in exchange
    for one of the Davis' and their pick. If Van Horn is still on the
    board, look for Utah to package Antoine Carr and a bunch of picks
    to try and get this pick. Whichever one of Battie/Mercer/Van Horn
    still available goes here.

(5) Denver. Takes point guard Chauncey Billups from Colorado. Yeah, they
    are blowing smoke about Antonio Daniels from Bowling Green, but they
    will take the local product who happens to be the highest rated point
    guard prospect.

(6) Boston. Rick has plans for Dino Radja and Dana Barros. Dee Brown wants
    to prove himself again. Those are the big salary cap hogs. It looks
    like Rick will give them a chance before trying to move them, so my
    guess is he keeps the pick instead of using it to help dump salary.
    Rick dumps salary by not re-signing Wesley and possibly Fox. Looks
    like help (and size) at the point guard spot is needed. Celtics take
    Antonio Daniels (6'4) from Bowling Green.

    Tim Thomas, Adonal Foyle, Kelvin Cato are the next three picks, in some
    order.

    Celtics start 1997 with a lineup of Radja, Walker, Williams, Mercer
    and Barros ... with Daniels, Minor, Ellison and Brown off the bench.
    Look for Pitino to go strong after Raef Lafrentz from Kansas next
    year.

    Just mho.

    Vinny

    I read something on the web that Philly may offer the C's their pick
    and Stackhouse to the C's for the 2 #1 picks and Williams or Radja.
    Other bodies would be included to balance the salary caps.
    
    Mike

    That doesn't look like a good deal at all for the Celtics.
    Whoever put that on the web has to be a philly fan dreaming.
    
     2
    b

    So getting Stackhouse and Battie  instead of Mercer and Foyle and Williams
    is a bad deal? Stackhouse is a free Agent next year and wants out if
    Philly. He's a known commodity and with good coaching be a star next
    year. Other then Duncan, Battie is the next rookie who would help the
    C's the most. I'd take it if it were offered.
    
    Mike

    Stackhouse is definitely a known commodity - a shooting guard who
    cain't shoot 40% from the field even though a third of his shots are
    dunks.  A guy who pouted when Iverson got all the publicity and for a
    time wouldn't pass him the ball.  A guy who's gonna want huge money at
    the end of next season.  And lastly, another Tar Heel?!?!?
    
    NAZZ

Word around here is that ol' Jerry is itching to get to Charlotte, not
the least reason being that there Tar Heel thing.

I wouldn't put all that much stock in what he's done so far, especially
not thised year with Iverson. They obviously don't play well with one
another. Split 'em up and I'd look for Stackhouse to show his talents.

If'n only for the money, he's gonna play hard for almost any team other
than Philly.

TTom

    
    
    Stackhouse = Your classic one-dimensional player.
    
    Can drive to the hoop but can't hit from the outside to save
    his life and plays defense a la last years C's team.  Let
    Charlotte have him or hope Phili keeps him
    
    CF

    I'd still take Battie and Stackhouse them Mercer and Foyle or who
    everthe 2 picks would be. Stackhouse will be/is a better player then
    the #6 pick. Getting Battie is the big plus.
    
    Mike

    Bottom line is Stackhouse worth the amount of $$$ He will demand
    next season ?  If so is this away for the Celts to work around the
    cap, add a DECENT ? shooting guard and hope he improves and then 
    next year when he wants big $$$ would he fall into that You can resign
    your own player catagory ?

    I know I keep saying this but then again y'all keep repeating yourself
    too.  Joe and Nazz your dismissal of Thomas is something.  I tell you
    again he should be number two and if #2 don't want him then they should
    trade with someone who obviously does.  You can always get a Battie (I
    haven't seen him it's just hearsay, damned by faint praise).
    
    I'm not sure about Pitino's position on the draft, perhaps he really
    wants Thomas and is playing possum.

    Thanks Nazz & CF for reinforcing my point. Clearly Stackhouse
    is singular in dimension of his playing skeels. I wouldn't want
    him in Boston, and I doubt that Pitino would either.
    Mike you also assume of course that Battie *is* going to be
    picked by Philly. That's not as clear an assumption as it
    would appear.
    
     2
    b

    Philly needs big bodies worse then the C's do. Their Center position last 
    year was manned by Williams and Cage . Coleman started there in games he's
    not a center.  The only worse Center tandem players resided in Boston. Now 
    if Philly wants to turn down Battie then the C's will luck out. But 
    everybody who I hear or read is saying Battie goes to Philly. I'm real
    nervous about this draft. After Battie there's a drop off in talent and
    the 4th pick might get you someone as good as #10. 
    

    Then if it's such a "no-brainer" to pick Battie to solve Philly's
    presume "big bodies" problem, why on earth would they trade him
    away? :-) Doesn't make much sense.
    
     2
    b

    To get quantity picks. Brown thinks he needs more then one body. They
    also want to deal Coleman and failing that probably Weatherspoon. So if
    they end up with the second pick and no deals they pick Battie. If they
    do deal him most teams will want Battie. Like the C's if there is more
    then 3 players currently on their roster still with the Sixers in 2
    years I'll be shocked. So noone will be sacred. 
    

    The Celtics will almost assuredly be rebuffed in any attempt to wrest
    the No. 1 pick from San Antonio's hands. However, the No. 2 pick, now
    owned by Philadelphia, may not be out of their reach.
    
    The 76ers like Texas Tech's Tony Battie, and the Celtics clearly need a
    player of his inside capabilities and potential.
    
    Though there has yet been no hint of conversation between the C's and
    Sixers, sources indicated there is room to talk. It is at least
    possible that a package of the No. 3 and 6 picks plus a player (Greg
    Minor? Dino Radja?) might fetch the No. 2 pick and Jerry Stackhouse.
    The latter is a free agent after this coming season and had thus far
    expressed interest in getting away from Philly.

    The only plus side for the Celtics if the do get Stackhouse is that
    they can let him walk after next season.  One year with another Tar
    Heel on the roster I could stomach (but barely).  More than that and
    it's barf city.
    
    If Stackhouse did come here and did not re-sign, that's a nice salary
    cap spot to fill with the huge crop of free agents due after next
    season.
    
    NAZZ

    
    
        Any word on how Tracy McGrady has looked at the workouts?
    
    
    Chap