Conference 7.286::boston_celtics

    Thank you Don Nelson.  Seems to me that somewhere in your subconscious
    a little Celtic pride remains!
    
    After this latest trade, the Mavericks have a chance to finish with the
    worst record in the league!  In any event, they probably will finish no
    better than 5th worst, giving the Celtics two of the top five picks in
    the draft.  And while the senior class is indeed weak, there are some
    very good underclassmen, such as Tony Battie, Ron Mercer, Tim Thomas,
    Danny Fortson, and Antawn Jamison, who most likely will come out and
    are candidates for being picked very high in the draft.  
    
    I would love to see the Celtics emerge with Duncan and Ron Mercer. 
    Getting Mercer to team with former Wildcat teammate Walker on the
    Celtic frontline would be terrific.  Then Rick Fox could exercise his
    option and become a free agent, and the Celtics would help him out the
    door.  A Duncan-Walker-Mercer frontline with Dino and Eric as backups
    would be terrific on the floor and a hell of a lot of fun to watch.
    
    NAZZ

>>    Thank you Don Nelson.  Seems to me that somewhere in your subconscious
>>    a little Celtic pride remains!

	I said "Thanks Don Nelson" in a previous note, after his Jamal
	Mashburn trade ... after his blockbuster trade with New Jersey,
	I have to say "THANKS DON!" ...

	Incredible, not only did he severly weaken Dallas (talent wise)
	for the remainder this season, thus improving the Celtics draft
	position, but he strengthened New Jersey, one of the teams competing
	with Boston and Dallas for draft position!

	And while we are at it, congrats to John Calipari ... at the
	beginning of the season I noted that John would have a tough
	time quickly turning around the Nets because of their terrible
	salary cap position ... well, in one move, John greatly raised
	the talent level on his team (adding Gatling, Jackson and Cassell)
	AND he improved his salary cap position by unloading Pack and 
	Bradley ... this was definately a no-brainer for the Nets, they
	probably couldn't say yes fast enough ...

	Lineups after the deal?

	Dallas: Robert Pack (or Derrick Harper), Sasha Danilovic, 
	        Sean Bradley, Samaki Walker, Michael Finley
		with Ed O'Bannon, Kurt Thomas (ir), Khalid Reeves, 
		Martin Muuresepp

	New Jersey: Sam Cassell, Kerry Kittles (or Jimmy Jackson),
		    Eric Montross, Kendall Gill, Jason Williams
		    with Chris Gatling, George McCloud

	Dallas looks WEAK ... New Jersey has a decent eight man rotation,
	although a little heavy at the 2 and 3 spots ... 

	Vinny

There are several rumors predicting that Coach Cal has some more trades
in the works.

Jimmy Jackson and George McCloud were mentioned on ESPN.

Assuming Cassell plays the point that puts a glut at 2 and 3 with
Kittles, Gill and Jackson.

And of course, the real downside of this is it leaves a major hole in the
middle as Bradley leaves the Nets with Montross and Yinka Dare. Extremely
scary prospect.

TTom

    I don't know about you guys but I continue to root for Philly, San
    Antonio, and Denver to win while rooting against Dallas and the boys
    in Green.
    
    * * * *
    
    Still not sure about Duncan being the best center...could be a good
    4 but not sure if he can mix it up with the big boys in the NBA.
    
    Maj

>>    I don't know about you guys but I continue to root for Philly, San
>>    Antonio, and Denver to win while rooting against Dallas and the boys
>>    in Green.

	So do I Maj, so do I ... was bummed last night when Starks
	made that shot against Phoenix ... would like to see the Suns
	put some distance between them and the Mavs ...

	btw - anyone else think that the Spurs are keeping David Robinson
	on the IR longer than necessary now that their season is
	just about over? He was originally scheduled to come back
	right after the all-star game, but I haven't seen any mention
	of him ...
    
>>    Still not sure about Duncan being the best center...could be a good
>>    4 but not sure if he can mix it up with the big boys in the NBA.
    
	Disagree with you there Maj ... if Alonzo Mourning can be a dominant
	NBA center, then so can Tim Duncan ... and I like Duncan's
	attitude a lot more ... he carries himself very well, both on
	and off the court ...

	And how many "big boys" are there? Other than Shaq (who the Celtics
	only play twice a year now)?

	Hakeem? Robinson? Their games are based more on speed and quickness
	than size ... Duncan is gonna be a real good one, and I will be
	dissappointed if the Celtics don't land him in the draft (although
	Battie wouldn't be a bad consolation prize) ...

	Vinny
	

    
    DALLAS	NETS		Winner
    ------	----		------
    Bradley	Montross	Dallas, No brainer here 
    Pack        Cassell         Dallas, slight advantage
    Reeves      McCloud		Nets, slight advantage here
    O'Bannon	Jackson		Nets, no brainer here
    - CASH      Gatling		Nets, no brainer here
    
    
    Overall, I think Dallas was the short-term winner and that hurts the
    Celtics this year.  Even though the Nets have built themselves a goo
    dcore of players for the future, I'd say that from today to the end of
    the season, I think Dallas will win more games.
    
    Marc
    

    Vinny,
    
    What about this kid Battie? He hasn't gotten much press so he may be
    a secret...much like Abdul Rahim last year.
    
    I think he goes about 6' 11". If the Celts and Mavs end up getting the
    1-2 I would probably go with Van Horn and either Battie or Duncan.
    Pitino is making noise about Mercer leaving Kentucky.
    
    Maj

>>    What about this kid Battie? He hasn't gotten much press so he may be
>>    a secret...much like Abdul Rahim last year.
  
	I like Battie, and if the Celtics don't get Duncan, I hope they
	get him ... he was not that highly touted coming out of high school
	(since he was "only" 6'7"), but he has grown four inches while
	in Texas ... and he is still filling out ... 

	But I think the Celtics will have a hard time landing him, and here
	is why:

	Tim Duncan is everyones number one pick, no matter who gets the
	top pick, Duncan will be chosen ... so if the Celtics win the
	lottery, they take Tim ...

	Vancouver will probably have the worst or second worst record
  	in the league, but they are forbidden from having the number one
	pick ... odds are that they will get the number two pick (since
	if they are chosen number one, they slide down to number two) ...
	would they take Battie, even though their best players are all in
	the frontcourt? would they draft a guard that high? or would
	they trade down? This is were the apprehension comes in ...

>>    Pitino is making noise about Mercer leaving Kentucky.
  
	I mentioned in another note that Mercer is the second player I
	would like the C's to grab ... and I would like to see them
	gamble on the "other" Kentucky player (Anderson, who is injured
	right now)  with their second round draft pick ...

	Vinny

>>    Overall, I think Dallas was the short-term winner and that hurts the
>>    Celtics this year.  Even though the Nets have built themselves a goo
>>    dcore of players for the future, I'd say that from today to the end of
>>    the season, I think Dallas will win more games.
    
	Couldn't disagree with you more ...

	In the *long term* Dallas could be the winner - both Bradley
	and Pack are signed for four more years (and even that is 
	questionable, Bradley is a big time salary cap hog with his
	contract) ... and Bradley, if used properly, could develop 
	into a very unique NBA player (and we all know how much Don 
	Nelson loves unique players and different lineups) ...

	But New Jersey definately got more immediate help ... Gatling
	and Jackson are the better players in the trade (right now) and
	McCloud and Cassell aren't bad ... it also gives the Nets many
	other options to make more moves ... but, Cassell, Montross and
	McCloud can (or will) be free agents at the end of the season ...
	this can be viewed as a good thing (salary cap freedom) or a
	bad thing (New Jersey loses the players to another team and gets
	nothing in return) ...

	The only way this helps Dallas is better team chemistry, but
	a bunch of "good guys" can only take you so far, they have to
	have some basketball talent ...

	Vinny

    I disagree with both of you - Dallas is the BIG, BIG loser both short
    term and long term.  Here's why:
    
    Short term - They stink.  Their personnel is the worst in the league,
    without a doubt.  They are old (Harper, Green)), injury prone (Pack), 
    inept (O'Bannon), and lack skills (Dreiling).  Their best player is
    probably Thomas, and he is on the injured list.  They will be lucky to
    win five more games the rest of the season.
    
    Long term - They are stuck with Bradley for four more years of a $44
    million contract.  They are stuck with Pack for four more years of a
    $22 million contract.  Those two players take up just about half of
    their salary cap!  So they are like the Celtics of 1994-95, with
    little maneuverability and a long road to mediocrity.
    
    NAZZ

re: Bradley

Wail, according to him and Nellie, that was the main ingredient to this
trade. Bradley claims that he had previously talked with Nelson when he
was with the other teams.

If'n Bradley doesn't greatly improve, Dallas will be the loser of this.

TTom

    
    We shall see...
    
    As of yesterday:
    
    Dallas 	17  32  .347
    Nets	15  36  .294
    
    Marc
    

    
    
       Philly wins.
    
    Dallas and Boston lose  YeeHah!!!
    
    

    Nazz, Joe, anyone watching Brian Skinner of Baylor?  He looks like he's
    making a late charge to the lottery but brief looks on espn is all I
    have.  Whats the "skinny" on this kid.

    Given, that hope springs eternal I am just wondering what next years 
    line up will look like?  For that matter what will the next
    Celtics championship line up look like?  Any opinions?
    
    Damon
    

    I have not seen Skinner play.  I've seen him listed as a 10-15 pick
    this year, but I know nothing about him.
    
    NAZZ

    Hmm - next year's lineup - here's an educated guess:
    
    GONE - Brickowski, Hamer, Lister, Ellison, Day, Brown, Hawkins
    
    C - Duncan, Szabo
    PF - Radja, Walker, Conlon
    SF - Williams, Fox
    SG - Minor, Mercer, Barros
    PG - Wesley, Garris or some other rookie PG
    
    NAZZ

    Seems like if Dallas and Boston have two of the top four picks then we
    can look forward to a 2 player combo from the Duncan-Battie-Van
    Horn-Mercer quartet.
    
    It'd be nice if Denver and SA went on a win streak.
    
    Maj

    
    >It'd be nice if Denver and SA went on a win streak.
    
    SA will start winning once Robinson comes back, as for the Nuggets,
    have you seen their trades?
    
    Marc
    

    I predict Denver, with the #2 pick, trades it to Utah for Bryon Russell
    and three #1 picks in 1997, 1999, and 2001.
    
    NAZZ

    
    Yesterday I would have said that there was no-way Denver would get the
    #2 pick.  Now I'm not so sure.
    
    Marc
    

	A couple comments about Nazz' future lineup:
    
>>    GONE - Brickowski, Hamer, Lister, Ellison, Day, Brown, Hawkins

	Agree that Brick, Hamer, Lister and Hawkins are gone ...
	But I don't think they will be able to move Brown or Ellison ...
	Todd Day is an enigma, they may re-sign him if the price is right ...
    
>>    C - Duncan, Szabo

	So, Boston wins the lottery? I like that idea ... but I see
	Ellison and/or Radja as the backups ...

>>    PF - Radja, Walker, Conlon

	Walker starts, Radja off the bench ... Conlon is a nice bench player

>>    SF - Williams, Fox

	Agree ...

>>    SG - Minor, Mercer, Barros

	Hey, you stole my idea (Mercer at two guard)! The Celtics would have
	to win the lottery (for Duncan) and get the second or third pick
	to get Mercer ... if he declares, he will be a top three pick ...

>>    PG - Wesley, Garris or some other rookie PG

	*If* the Celtics can re-sign Wesley ...

	I think the ML Carr regime will be defined this off season, with
	just a little luck ML has the chance to completely re-build the
	team for the next century ...

	What ML needs to do:
	- Use the two lottery picks wisely (obvious) ... hopefully, the
	  C's will get the number one pick (no-brainer - Duncan), but
	  what he does with the second pick will be almost as important,
	  does he pick a Scottie Pippen/Karl Malone or does he draft
	  a Chris Washburn/Michael Smith?
	- Make decisions on free agents David Wesley and Rick Fox
	- Try to unload some of the salary-cap-eating-bench salaries
	  (not easy, but possible)
	- Make a decision on Eric Williams (there is a window this
	  summer to extend his rookie contract, which has one year 
	  remaining on it)
	- Name the coach in charge of rebuilding - ML was the good company
	  man and took all the heat for "deconstruction" ... he will need
	  to step aside for the next coach to start the up swing ...

	Looking optomistically towards the future ...

	Vinny

    Remember, Todd Day made $3.9 million this year.  There is no way I'd
    pay him half of that, and I'm sure he won't want to take a 50% pay cut.
    
    NAZZ

    Just a gut feeling that ML won't be making the decisions this June.
    Alot of people are saying LB is going to be moving in.
    
    Mike

I wouldn't be surprised if'n Larry Bird stepped in to help out but he
doesn't strike me a someone who's interested in the kinda headaches being
the GM or being the coach can cause.

Somehow I can't see him negotating a $10 mil/year contract with someone
like Derrick Coleman, as a_example, or putting up with some of the stuff
from someone like Derrick Colman, as a_example.

TTom

    And if they have designs on Pitino, Bird would be out of the loop, as
    Pitino would want to run the show himself.  I doubt he and Bird would
    get along as front office partners, fellow executives, or whatever
    you'd want to call them.
    
    NAZZ

>>    And if they have designs on Pitino, Bird would be out of the loop, as
>>    Pitino would want to run the show himself.  I doubt he and Bird would
>>    get along as front office partners, fellow executives, or whatever
>>    you'd want to call them.
    
	Funny, I just heard the exact OPPOSITE ... some basketball insider
	stated that while Rick would like the John Calipari total control
	package, he wouldn't be against working with someone like Larry
	Bird ... Rick wouldn't work for someone like ML Carr though ...

	On the topic of Calipari, while he does have total control, don't
	the Nets also have a gm (Nash?) that really helped make the
	Dallas trade? Give credit to John, he put the right people in the
	right positions to make the Nets a viable organization ...

	btw - Ron Mercer from Kentucky is going to announce that he is
	entering the NBA draft today ... ESPN commented last night that
	the Celtics dream draft would be Duncan and Mercer, possibly with
	Pitino as coach ... they reading this conference??

	Vinny

Sorry Vinny and other hopefuls.

Charlotte beat the hapless Spurs and will prolly do the same to Dallas.

TTom

    TTom - we need the victory over Dallas.  Remember, the more Dallas
    loses, the better their draft pick will be, and the Celtics own that
    pick.
    
    NAZZ

    Speaking of Mercer, he will be taken second in the draft, IMO.  Here's
    how I see the top four going:
    
    1. Boston - Duncen
    2. Vancouver - Mercer
    3. San Antonio - Battie
    4. Philadelphia - Van Horn
    5. big drop-off in talent after those four.
    
    NAZZ

    It would be awesome if one of these lottery picks is the next great NBA
    superstar ala the '78-'79 turnaround with Larry the Legend.

>    1. Boston - Duncen
>    2. Vancouver - Mercer

Supposing that Boston wins the lottery, I can see it working this way but
I'd feel some qualms at seeing Mercer go somewhere else. Duncan will take
some time to develop, is a bit short at 6'10" while Mercer looks at least
as good as say Jerry Stackhouse. And speaking of that ex-Tar Heel, one
name that I wouldn't be too surprised to see in the draft is current
rising start, Vince Carter. Talent can only take so much of Dean.

>    3. San Antonio - Battie
>    4. Philadelphia - Van Horn
>    5. big drop-off in talent after those four.

I'd say there's a pretty big drop off after the 1 and 2.

And of course, there's always value in the later picks. At least that's
what it always seems.

TTom

>> Charlotte beat the hapless Spurs and will prolly do the same to Dallas.
>> TTom

	Nice KOD there TTom ... :-(

	Can you say choke? 

	Vinny - who wishes the other ex-Celtics (Cowens, Ainge) would
	        help out their former club ...

    
    I know that Vancouver can not get the #1 pick, but are they sure they
    will get #2 ? Is it possible for Boston to get #1 and #2 ? Say Dallas
    gets the #1 in the lottery and Boston gets #2.
    
     Jim

    
    Jim,
    
    Yes it is possible.  HIGHLY unlikely, but possible.
    
    Marc
    

Vinny,

Remind me to just shut my face when it comes to these kinda things.

Charlotte's main problem lasted night was that they basically took the
night off. This was their third game in 4 or 5 days. Most of the
principals played 40+ minutes the night before at the Spurs.

And they still had a chance to win it but decided that they'd rather let
Dallas have another possession.

TTom

    As if they needed to play 40+ against the Spurs!
    
    NAZZ

Mason wants to play the whole game, ever game. A couple of minutes a game
is all he wants or needs to rest.

The minutes really affect Muggsy whose knee problems are chronic and
degenerative. Vlade has been logging some serious time as well but Geiger
came back lasted night to spell him.

And, of course, Dell Curry is still suffering the effects of KJ's elbow
and isn't on this Texas trek.

TTom

    Is it me, or am I the only one who's not all that impressed with this
    talk about Tim Duncan?  
    
    Why do I feel that this guy is nothing more than a recycled Sam
    Bowie/Brad Daugherty type (spelled S-O-F-T)?  And why do I think he'll
    probably resemble the former more than the latter?
    
    Then again, I remember saying that Shaq was nothing more than the
    second coming of Bill Wennington.  :-)
    
    
    
    

    Did you watch Saturday's Wake/NC game?  I used to think Duncan might
    be a little soft - not any more...

	Re. Tim Duncan

	Good article about him (and his personality) in todays USA Today,
	check it out online at there web site ...

	Vinny

>    Why do I feel that this guy is nothing more than a recycled Sam
>    Bowie/Brad Daugherty type (spelled S-O-F-T)?  And why do I think he'll

     I have thought the same and was even thinking of Daugherty as
     an example. (yeeks!) Though, in all fairness, I've watched
     Duncan in just two games this season so that's not much to
     based an opinion on. btw, how many collegiate players with
     NBA lottery potential play all four college years ?  Would
     Duncan be rated #1 in a very strong draft ?

     In any event,  me thinks his NCAA playoff performance will 
     speak volumes.

    My knock on Daugherty is not his talent, which he had a lot of, but
    rather his durability (same for Sam Bowie).  I agree that Duncan's
    the best of the big men, but heck...the guy is barely 6'10" and he's
    not a dominating physical force.
    
    I guess my comments refer more to the fact that the media is making
    this guy sound like the next Hakeem, more than the fact that he can be
    a contributor at a position that the Celtics need help in.
    
    In other words, if the ping pong balls fall right, thealmost have
    to take him, but I don't see him as the kind of guy who will add 20
    wins to this year's team.
    
    I'm also still nervous about the way that toothpick Camby ate him alive
    last year.

    BTW...I heard during my drive home that the C's signed Stacey King.
    
    Now I'm REALLY nervous about this franchise.  Who's next - J.R. Reid?
    (sorry Nazz).
    
    I think this team has been here before...let's see now...Sidney Wicks,
    Curtis Rowe....ohhh this is too painful.
    
    What this team doesn't need right now is a bunch of guys with sub-par
    efforts to fill positions due to injuries.  The very least they can do
    is find some guys who will hustle and bust hump.  They'll still get
    beat every night, but at least they won't poison the guys they'll want 
    to keep for next year.
    
    I don't like this.
    

    
    >My knock on Daugherty is not his talent, which he had a lot of, but
    >rather his durability (same for Sam Bowie).
    
    Um - what lack of durability?  Until his back gave out, Daugherty
    was very durable.

    JOe

re: Stacey King.

You have to figger this can only help the Celtics lottery chances.

TTom

    Daugherty played in over 70 regular season games in 7 of his first 8
    seasons.
    
    NAZZ

    Stacey King was signed to a 10 day contract, to fill in while
    Walker presumably healed his ankle. I got home late last night
    and noticed that Antoine played. I'd rather see him sit out
    and rest the ankle, let it heal instead of risking further injury
    or the possibility of developing a chronic problem with the ankle.
    
     2
    b

    RE: Artis Gilmore
    
    Actually, He'd be a very decent role model for some of the young 
    Celtic players.. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the C's in the same 
    role as Lister is. 
    
     2
    b