Conference vmsnet::car$note:carbuffs

When buying new cars, I keep it simple.  I find out the Edmunds Dealer's Cost
and offer that. Salespeople/managers can whine all they want about advertising,
shipping, profits, paperwork, etc.  Not my problem. They meet my offer or I
walk - and I DO walk. It is not_so_basic_negotiations, but in the end, I offer
a very quick deal. Let them make their profit from either the holdback or from
someone else who is less hardnosed.  To let them save face, I have no problem
with them adding in any amount they want and then giving it back to me on my
trade-in - (I have already accurately assessed the market value of my trade by
getting "bids" from at least three used car lots in the area). 

Actually, I shake hands with the salesperson, sit down with the Edmunds book, 
price out the vehicle on the lot that I want, pull out my checkbook and write 
out a 10% deposit for that vehicle. No test drives, no BS, just meet the price
and here is my check; I'll pick it up after it is washed.   When someone 
finally decides to take me up on my offer, I make sure I line out everything in 
the P&S agreement I don't like and that the bottom line is what we agreed to.

The system has worked, well for me buying 13 new cars (me and family), of
Japanese, Swedish and American manufacturers for almost 30 years.  Of course, I
have to put up with my spouse's grousing about how long it takes to get what we
want and how embarassed she is by my negotiation tactics.

Luck,

Dave

    RE.: last few
    
    Mass Buying Power tells you that their price is the best you will be
    able to do and that you don't need to bargin with the sales man. Don't
    believe it. Use Mass Buying Power price as a STARTING point for you
    negotiations.
    
    Bottom line, in my case....I bought my car for about $500 under the
    Mass Buying Power price which is very close to the 'real' invoice
    price. The dealer, of course, should still get the 2% dealer holdback
    from the manufacturer at the end of the quarter.
    
    Ray

    I agree - Mass Buying Power, Auto-by-tel etc. are all marketing
    gimmicks to make you think you're getting a great deal, but you can do
    better. Find out the invoice price, and start from there. I just bought
    a 97 Maxima for $200 over - thats what I offered and after the usual
    whining they agreed. That did include their "regional marketing costs"
    or whatever they called it, and delivery charge.
    
    BTW, you can get the invoice prices on the Internet in great detail,
    retail and invoice for all the base models, options etc. I'm sure the
    dealers hate that, the more info you have, the less they can BS you.
    
    Steve
    

Do you know where on the internet?

    www.kbb.com
    www.edmunds.com

http://www.edmunds.com/

    I don't even start with invoice, I start with (real) dealer cost and
    work from there. As far as I'm concerned, invoice is in the same
    category as MSRP - a smokescreen to separate you from as much of your
    money as they can.

    
    How do you figure (real) cost?  From my experiences this isn't easy
    information to obtain (given holdback, "secret" incentives, volume
    discounts, etc).  

    Edmunds lists any incentives or programs currently underway and their
    expiration dates.  To find the dealer cost...
    
    Invoice - holdback - incentives + shipping + advert fee = dealer cost.  
    
    A car with a 3% hold back and a $1,500 rebate could be figured like
    this.  Assume 20K invoice and 25K MSRP and 3% hold back.
    
    $20,000 (invoice)
    -   750 (3% of $25,000 MSRP)
    - 1,500 (rebate)
    +   225 (advert. fee)
    +   450 (shipping) 
    =======
    18,425  (dealer cost) 

    
    	If you bring a notarized letter stating that you never saw this
    	vehicle in a commercial, or if you did, the commercial had no ef-
    	fect on your decision to buy same, then you don't have to add the
    	advertising cost either.
    

    Funny, I didn't need a notarized letter.

    
    re: .82
    
    While I am a big fan of Edmunds, I personally know that their list
    of incentives is not always accurate. I checked for Nissan Maxima
    incentives when shopping for a car. At the time there was a $1500 
    factory to dealer incentive on Maximas and some other models. Not even
    a listing for any Nissans on Edmunds.com. (FWIW, looks like the domestic
    listings are updated more often.)  The dealer was fairly open with this 
    information but would not verify the amount (until after the deal was
    done...still not sure it wasn't more either :^). The dealers really
    love it when you whip out those Edmunds listings too :^).
    
    BTW, I have never bought a new car and let them add any advertising fee to
    the price. Destination (shipping) is about it besides straight profit
    and rebates...  
    
    I think the only person that knows the *true* cost of the cars to any
    given dealership is the accountant (maybe the owner too ;^). With volume/
    cash discounts, hidden incentives, and who knows what else, there are
    too many variables involved. I will say that in most cases, the formula in
    .82 is pretty accurate (but get rid of advert. fee...at least for some
    makes). I'm a fan of any formula that comes up with a number less than
    invoice :^). Just remember a rebate that the consumer isny privy to can
    throw a wrench into that cost formula...
    
    /Charlie