Conference vmsnet::car$note:carbuffs

This morning, I was driving the 87 740 wagon (147K miles) and the engine was in
the warmup mode.  Suddenly, it lost the power to accelerate and I'm pretty sure
I heard the main fuel pump buzzing (indicating the tank pump stopped working
temporarily).  A minute later, the car was back to normal and the buzzing had
stopped.  This intermittent event has been happening occasionally, but almost
always on cold wet mornings, or cold mornings the day after it rained or
snowed. 

Since the tank fuel pump is over $200, I don't want to just go replacing it for
the heck of it.  What course of action do you recommend?  I was planning to
disconnect the electrical connector to the rear fuel pump and clean the
contacts.  I can also purchase a new fuel pump relay for $20 and see if that
fixes it.  I guess my real question is what is the failure mode for the
in-tank fuel pumps.  Do they go flakey and then finally conk out or do
they just go all of a sudden?  Anyone have any experience?

Jim

    re -.1
    
    It used to be with VeeDubs with Bosch electric fuel pumps one way to tell
    when the pump was dying involved playing with fuses.  The factory
    shipped the cars with a 20 amp fuse for the fuel pump.  It'd run fine
    when not worn with a 10 amp fuse.  When the ten amp fuse blew you'd go
    to a 15.  When the fifteen blew, you'd go back to the twenty amp, and
    go looking for a new pump.
    
    Not sure if Volvos respond the same way or not, but I know my old Volvo
    wagon ate its fuel pump about 135K miles.  Failure mode was
    intermittent almost feeling like vapor lock.  Eventually when the
    weather got hot it did vapor lock.  New mega-buck pump fixed the
    problem.
    
    djc

    Last year, I traded my '83 245 wagon that had had both fuel pumps go
    within a year of each other. The noisy thing may be the impeller that
    is wobbly and telling you it is going to go.
    
    However, earlier in its life, mine also had developed a surging type
    effect that seemed to just cut fuel flow right off (usually while
    driving 50 or 60 mpg on a highway) and then it'd turn on again. That
    problem was cured by the dealer tightening up the inner pump's seal to
    the fuel tank. I had thought this problem would be a kilobuck fix, but
    it took them about 15 minutes and I was on the road again.

>>This morning, I was driving the 87 740 wagon (147K miles) and the engine was in
>>the warmup mode.  Suddenly, it lost the power to accelerate and I'm pretty sure
>>I heard the main fuel pump buzzing (indicating the tank pump stopped working
>>temporarily).  A minute later, the car was back to normal and the buzzing had
>>stopped.  This intermittent event has been happening occasionally, but almost
>>always on cold wet mornings, or cold mornings the day after it rained or
>>snowed. 

I think I might have solved the problem this weekend.  Over the last two 
years, this car has had problems with: bad gas mileage, poor idle, faulty
grounds, poor performance when in warmup mode, poor performance on the highway,
and other misc electrical problems such as flickering lights, etc.  On 
Saturday, I replaced the alternator with once from a 70,000 mile car and
it apppears as if most of the problems have gone away.  The car drives and
idles just like a new car now.  The cost was $50 and that included shipping
from Dallas, TX.  I also have a brand new fuel pump relay coming from the
dealer in Houston and I'll put that in anyway since the old one is 10 years
old.

This new alternator is great, but I'm wondering how long it will last.  New
ones are megabucks for these Volvos, so everyone goes with used or rebuilt.  
I need to do the other car since it has 167K on the original alternator.
To have the old one I just took out rebuilt by a shop in Chelmsford will cost
$120 (includes new voltage regulator).  Another used 70K mile one costs $50,
and a totally rebuilt one off the shelf is $200.  I don't want to rebuild it
myself because the commutator is grooved pretty badly and I have no way of
turning it. What would you suggest doing? 

Jim 

I had a noisy main fuel pump about a month ago. I also thought it was going
out. My original main pump gave up at about 185,000. It's failure mode was
to not start. It happened to me three times, each time it would start after
a 30 minutes or longer wait. The last time it happened in my driveway and
after finding good voltage to the pump but no go, I talked to a mechanic I
use and he suggested tapping on the pump with a hammer. This freed the pump
and then it worked again. Long enough to get to a JY and get another pump.

I talked to the mechanic about the noise and he suggested the pressure
regulator valve at the end of the fuel manifold. Its failure mode is
to not relieve pressure, causing excessive fuel pressure, noisy pump
and very poor gas mileage. That tank I got 16mpg, usually I get 22-25.

On Christmas Eve I bought and put on a new regulator and the noise went away,
the fuel pump is quiet and I am back to the 22-25mpg range.

1985 240 DL, 202,000 miles

Mats Larsson

How much did the fuel regulator cost?

Jim

    Well Jim, your analysis was spot on.
    
    I had the front rotors returned to no avail (pulsing got worse). I
    tried torquing the nuts in small increments without any good coming of
    it. I called IPD and they, as you suggested said chuck the rotors, for
    anything over 30,000 miles cannot be returned with any guarentee they
    will actually work again on the 700 series Volvos.
    
    Calling the brake warehouse in S.C. got me a set set of Brembo rotors
    for $60 each. This is a great price, as I have special oversize Girling 
    brakes. The rotors arrived and looked like works of art. I felt bad
    having to let the salt and water get to these beautiful machined
    rotors. 
    
    Took 20 minutes to install and they worked perfectly right out of the
    box. I still don't understand why they can't machine these rotors square
    again, but hopefull I will not have to find out in the future...

	Warped rotors seem to be the current trend. I chalk it up to
metallic brake pads. The pads may last forever, but it seems at the cost
of the rotors. My Dakota is tough on brakes cuz it's regularly asked to
stop the truck *PLUS* 3500 lbs of trailer that doesn't have it's own brakes.

	At about 40-50k miles the rotors were severely warped. I had them
turned and managed to get about 20k miles out of them before I just couldn't
stand the pulsing anymore. I then purchased new ones, aftermarket, for a 
pretty reasonable price. (50-65 bucks I think). And now have been running
with those for additional 50k miles. Wonder how long they'll last.....

	As it was explained to me... Once the rotors are turned they have
less meat to dissipate the heat and therefore warp much easier at that
point.

YMMV

Rick

It used to be that rotors were very thick and solid.  They were also relatively
expensive.  You could turn them a number of times over the life of the car and
they would never need replacing. Then came the government regulations regarding
fuel efficiency and the automakers cut way back on the rotating mass of the
wheels to save gas.  Of course this meant creating hollow rotors and taking the
metal down to the absolute bare minimum in thickness.  Rotors then became
disposables like the pads.  The price also came down dramatically as the
aftermarket entered this growing market.  Unfortunately, many mechanics still
try to turn them, thinking they are dealing with a 1960's car.  On my 740, the
rear Brembo rotors were $35 each and the fronts $55 each.  That's only about
10% more than new pads cost! I replace them at every other pad change.  My 
Volvo 740 sedan pulls a 2000 pound pop-up up and down the mpuntains of N.E.
and I have never had a rotor problem.

Jim 

Jim, 

The next brake thing you will have to deal with is the expanding seals in the
Volvo calipers (definitely affects Bendix; don't know about Girling).  As they
age, the caliper seals expand and clinch the pistons tighter and tighter.  Soon
it becomes difficult to stop the car.  The solution is to buy a rebuild kit for
$32 for each front caliper and rebuild them.  It's so straightforward, I don't
even take the calipers off the car.  This weekend, the right front on the sedan
gets done. 

Jim 

   > I still don't understand why they can't machine these rotors square
   > again, but hopefull I will not have to find out in the future...

   It depends on why they warped. If it was due to uneven pressure of the
   pads, then turning the rotors won't be affective unless the pressure
   is balanced (binding caliper ...)

   If they warped do to overheating, the damage has been done to the strength
   of the metal, and removing more metal isn't going to make it any stronger.

   I replace the rotors on my wifes Caravan every other brake change because
   it cost the same as turning, with much better results. The metal wears
   very fast on this vehicle.

   The S10 just had the original rotors, never having been turned, replaced 
   after 180K due to failure to replace the pads on time (read: major grooves 
   from rivit grinding :-)

   Doug.

    
    I need some diagnostic help.  My wifes' 1986 240 DL, Automatic with air
    conditioning has developed a cooling strangeness.
    
    During warmup, the temperature gauge will slowly move towards
    operating temperature.  Normally it would get to the center of the
    guage and stop and this is where it would remain as long as the car was
    running.  Now, the guage will go past center and rise till about 1/2
    way between center and the red zone.  It will stay there for a second
    or two and move back down towards center, stopping just above center. 
    It will then pretty much stay where it is, but does show some slight
    movement in both directions.
    
    I've replaced the temperature compensation module, the radiator, and
    have had the pressure caps checked.  Still the same.
    
    What do you think?  I figure it could be the mechanical fan clutch is
    weak, but I'm not sure how this is suppose to work.  It could be the
    water pump is weak, but its not leaking or making noise.  It could be
    a clogged heater core, but I get plenty of heat.  The thermostat was
    replaced in the fall, maybe a higher temp rating was put in.
    
    Chip  

It sounds like the temperature gauge is broken.  There are some electronic
components associated with the Volvo temp gauge that filter out the small
variations in coolant temperature.  That's why the gauge holds steady pointed
directly up during the summer as well as the winter.  When these electronic
components go, you start to see the needle follow the actual coolant
temperature more closely.  If you are sure the coolant system is working 
properly then you may want to either replace the gauge or just live with
the gauge as it is.  I believe it's about $100 for a new gauge.

Jim

It also sounds like there could be air in the system.  Are you 
absolutely certain that all the air was removed?

Jeff

    
    Follow up note to .825.  It turns out that Volvo makes two thermostats.
    One for a temperate zone that opens at 189F and a cold climate
    thermostat that opens at 198F.
    
    I had the the 198F installed.  As soon as I put the 189F in, the temp now 
    sits in the middle of the guage again.
    
    Chip

I am considering a 1990 Volvo 240 wagon that has 173,000 miles.  I own a
740 with similar mileage, but I was wondering what 240 things to watch
out for on a 240 with such high mileage.  It is a 5-speed with a recent 
clutch job.

Jim

    
    
    	OK, I've finally read all 800+ replies.
    
    	Somewhere back there was a discussion of brakes.  Oh yeah, '86 GL
    	240 wagon.  248,xxx miles.  Front brakes are acting weird, pulling,
    	etc.  One of the last times I was in there, I found a weeping seal
    	on one of the calipers.  Plus the entire fluid system must be 
    	flushed/changed.  
    
    	The question is, just go buy rebuilts or try to rebuild them
    myself?  Almost every other time I've tried to rebuild calipers, some
    boot, or clip, or something didn't quit fit on, etc.  But all in all
    volvos seem to be different about rebuilding stuff.  The price for
    rebuilts I'm getting is about $68 from Sanels in Manchester, NH.
    What's your opinion/experience?