Conference hbahba::cam_sports

I wonder if Al Davis' strong comments yesterday about Marcus Allen
had anything to do with Allen now being a free agent.  He's shootin'
him in the back as he walks out the door.

I hope Allen has a great year next year.

    Well another SuperBowl blowout has come-and-gone, and as usual, the AFC
    representative just withered away before our eyes. Does anybody else
    out there think that there might be some corelation between the NFC
    dominance thing (over the lasted 9 years) and the fact that in 6 of
    those it's been either the Buffalo Broncos, or the Denver Broncos
    representing the AFC ... :-} 
    
    I guess the AFC won't get another Lombardi 'til the Raidahs, Steelers,
    or 'Phins get back there.....oh well!
    
    Carloski ?
    

      You mean its going to be another 10-12 years?

    
       The Raiders were the last AFC team to win the BIG ONE. Something
    that the Donkeys or Bills will never acheive, and if the Donkeys or
    Bills represent ( BOTH LOSERS) the AFC, the next team to win it will
    be the last AFC team that won it!!!!!
    
    
        Regards,
    
        Magnum

      Double entry for the same far fetched note.    Magnum,  we have been
    through this before.  The faiders aren't even going to get there until
    Al finds a QB and quits bringing in has beens (Montana excluded if he
    does go to faids).
    
      There are other teams out there.  KC, Chargers & fish.  AFC central
    teams, na!
    
      Tim

    Here's a look at the Raiders' 1993 Home/Away schedule (not including
    their AFC West rivals...of course):
    
    Home: NY Jets, Cleveland, Green Bay, Chicago.
    
    Away: Cincinnati, Buffalo, Minnesota, Tampa Bay.
    
    Not too tough (especially compared to lasted years schedule), but not 
    that easy either....  no dates for these games are available yet, but
    I'll post 'em (if I'm still here :-) when they're available.
    
    Carloskiwitz
    

      I'm assuming you mean back in '94?  The '93 SB has already been
    played;^)
    
      Its a bold statement unless they get a QB!
    
      That schedule (other than AFC west)  does look somewhat simple going
    by last year.  Then again,  losses to Clevland, minni, buff and chicago
    are most likely.  Of course 2 losses to denver, SD, and KC each would
    mean a 6-10 record.  Now this is not a prediction yet!
    
      Tim

    
    >>Chiefs, and Chargers goes....well, don't hold your breath too long
    >>because the faids had a bad year lasted year (when most other teams
    >>have bad years they go 3-13, 4-12, etc.. but the faids go 7-9 :-)
    
    I wonder, after the Faiders go 4-12 this year, whatcha'll callit,
    Carlos, what, a "rebuilding year??"
    
    Or sumthin like that, eh??
    
    JaKe
    

    Yeah but.....this was their 'rebuilding year' and they went 7-9.
    
    That was my point, when other teams have bad years (a.k.a. rebuilding 
    years, or whatever else you wanna call it) they go 4-12 (1-15 etc...)
    but the faids, when they're experiencing bad times (rebuilding) go 7-9,
    8-8, etc..... 
    
    Life is beeeeutiful peering through Silver & Black colored contact
    lenses.                   :-)
    
    Carloski

    SO, who they gonna "rebuild" into a decent QB????
    
    Doesn't seem to me that they have a SB caliber QB there now.
    
    COme to think of it, I don't know that either of the STEELER QB's are
    SB caliber, either.
    
    JaKe
    

    Now wait a doggone minute!  There's no way us Steeler fans could stand
    to see Brister in a Raider uniform....
    
    
    NOT!
    
    Bill

    Perfect match, the Faids take Brister, give teh Steelers a coupon fer a
    free fill-up fer the company car, and two packs of crackers at a
    mini-mart, and head straight fer the 5-11 record wif Brister at the
    helm.
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    
    BTW, FWIW and all those letters, I wouldn't touch Majkowski wif a ten
    foot pole if'n I was a GM in the NFL.  The guy could probably get hurt
    in a baby pool by getting hit wif the wake from a pudgy kid fallin' in.
    
    JaKe
    

    I was able to extract a complete list of all the NFL free-agents
    through the Inter-net, and to answer my own question, here's a list of
    all the QB's that will be free-agents:
    
    Mike Pagel - Rams
    Scott Secules - Dolphins
    Mike Buck & Bobby Hebert - Saints
    Hoss & Simms - Giants
    Chris Miller - Falcons
    Jim Harbaugh - Bears
    Mike Tomczak - Browns
    Steve Beurlein - Cowboys
    Erik Kramer & Chuck Long - Lions
    Don Majikowski - Packers
    Cody Carlson - Oilers
    Mark Vlasic - Chiefs
    David Archer & Jim McMahon - Eagles
    Bubby Brister - Steelers
    Bob Gagliano - Chargers
    Steve Bono & Steve Young - 49'ers
    Kelly Stouffer - Seahawks
    Vinny Testaverde - Bucs
    
    
    Quite a list huh ??   I'd love to see Hebert playing for the Faids!
    I also think the Faids would be better off nexted year if they'd dump
    Shredder and go after any of the following: Hoss, Simms, Chris Miller,
    Majik, McMahon, Bono, Young, or Testaverde. Young won't be available,
    and by the way Dan Reeves and Sam Wyche talk, neither will Simms or
    Testaverde. I don't know why Montana isn't on this list, but I'm pretty
    sure his contract is worded so that he can decide each year whether he
    wants to play for the 49'ers or not. He'd be good for a year or two,
    and maybe Marinovich could benefit from having Joe around....hasn't
    hurt Young or Bono any!
    
    Carloski

    Also...here's a list of all the Raiders that are eligible for
    free-agency:
    
    
    NFL
    EXP  Pos.  LA Raiders
    
    12   Rb    Marcus Allen-301yds, 4.5y/c, 2 TD...28rec, 277yds, 1 TD
    5    WR    Tim Brown-49 rec, 693yds, 7 TDs
    6    LB    Aundray Bruce-3.5 sacks
    11   RB    Eric Dickerson-729yds, 3.9y/c, 2 TD...14 rec, 85 yds, 1 TD
    10   LB    Riki Ellison-1 sack, 2 fum rec
    8    T     James Fitzpatrick
    6    RB    brent Fullwood
    11   WR    Willie Gaut-27 rec, 508yds, 4 TDs
    14   DT    Bob Golic
    12   P     Jeff Gossett-42.3 gross avg, 36.5 net avg.
    6    WR    Sam Graddy-10 rec, 205yds, 1 TD...17 yds per KR.
    13   S     ronnie Lott-1 int, 1 Fum rec
    11   T/G   Reggie McElroy
    10   S     Elvis Patterson
    10   QB    Jay Shroeder-48.6%, 5.83y/a, 11 TD, 11 Int fr 63.3 rate
    7    FB    Steve Smith-129 yds, 2.9y/c...28 rec, 217yds, 1 TD
    11   T     Steve Wright
    
    HtH.....
    
    Carloski
    
    

Re: Herbert with the Raids

I can see it now. Good ole Bobby whinin everytime he'd manage to 
get the ball near a receiver and he didn't catch it and then walking 
off the field after yet another INT with that "gee, those things 
happen look" on his ugly puss.

A great whining tandem in Herbert and Dickerson.

daryll

      Wait a minute,  Carlos, I thought you said something to the effect
    that Todd was the second coming of the snake?  Give hime 2 years and
    all that BS?  The faids have been re-building for 8 years^)
    
      The donks would like to have Wright and Golic if they went to a 4-3.
    
    
      Go for Testy , Hoss or Majik, sure losses for the faids!
    
      Tim

    
    
         Todd Sips!!!

    
     I'll second, third, and fourth that one, Chappy...
    
    BG

I think that they ought to sign Beuerlein, and give him big bucks to
boot.  How much you wanna bet this'll never happen?

Jerry

      Beurline already was a faider and sucked,  what makes you think that
    he wouldn't suck a second time?
    
      Beurline isn't as good as some think IMO.
    
      Tim

    I don't think so Tim...  Beurline is a good QB.  Uncle Al blew it
    when he pined him and eventually traded him away.  Beurline won't
    go back to Al.
    
    BG

    Oh yeah....BTW, lasted week the faids named T. Brown & T. McDaniel as
    transition players...which just means that they (the faider org.) have
    the right to match any offers made to either of these two knuckle
    heads.
    
    Carloski
    

    In today's faider news...the faids named Ray Hamilton to be the Defensive
    line coach.
    
    Don't ask me who he is though.......
    
    Carloski
      

                                                 
    > In today's faider news...the faids named Ray Hamilton to be the Defensive
    > line coach.
    > 
    > Don't ask me who he is though.......
    
    Boyhood idol of mine while growing up in Norman, OK, and later with the
    Patriots.  Geez, you Raider fans live in your own little world, huh? ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    I'm surprised the Pats let him get away after they coaxed him out of
    retirement to help fill seats during the strike.

Ray "Sugarbear" Hamilton.  Former DL (70s, 80's) and DL coach for the Patriots.

Pretty solid DL, who has the claim to fame of a key and controversial roughing
the passer call against the Raiders, in the playoffs of 19(mumble-mumble).
Every Patriot fan alive will tell you it was a bum call.

=Bob

    Dang right it was a bum call. Cost the Patsies the game. Roughing the
    passer BS agin Sugar Bear that put the ball on the Pats 1 fer the
    Raiders. Twas in 1976, the first Raider SupahBowl.
    Y'all oughta say a rosary every night for Ben Dreith who done reffed
    datt game, made the call that catapulted the Raiders to the title.
    
    8^)
    MikeL
     

>> Boyhood idol of mine while growing up in Norman, OK,

	Wow, Glenn, that expains alot.  

	Billl

|                     -< Is Norman, OK, near Muscokie, OK? >-
|
|>> Boyhood idol of mine while growing up in Norman, OK,
|
|	Wow, Glenn, that expains alot.  


In the immortal words of Ronnie Van Zant:

	I want you to meet someone from Oklahoma.  Watch out,
	I'm gonna sick a ol' Okie on ya...


'Saw

    >                 -< Is Norman, OK, near Muscokie, OK? >-
    
    Naw, relative to Muskogee, Norman was definitely hippie/pinko/yuppie-
    by-now country.  Country jukebox strictly optional.  Our old friend
    Cowboy from Stillwater would've set you guys straight on this...
    
    glenn
    

    
    
    re-1
    
       Muskogee Oklahoma U.S.A., 
    
    one town that helped make Merle famous.
    
    Cadzilla

     Re. 31
    
    	The ball was not put on the 1 yd line, the Raiders drove
    there, then Stabler ran it in. The ball was put around the
    30 yd line.
    
    
    Vinny

    Wrongo Vinny,
    The ball was on the 30 yd line when Stabler threw to the end zone
    looking for Branch. Pass incomplete, way outta bounds. Ben Dreith
    throws the flag, roughing the passer against Sugar Bear. Ball placed
    on 1 yd line. Oh, I'm wrong. Sugar Bear kicks ball, another flag
    for unsportsmanlike, ball on 1/2 yd line. Stabler runs left, sneaks
    into end zone. Raiders win. Oakland fans give refs standing O
    as they run through tunnel.
    
    HTH,
    MikeL
    

    
    	Roughing the passer is only a 10 or 15 yd penalty, to put
    the ball on the 1 it would have been pass interference, right?
    
    Vinny

    
    
    
      Raiders signed Gerald Perry Offensive tackle to a 3 year deal.
    He played the last two seasons with the LA Rams
    
    
    Mike

    Thanks for the good news Mike, the signing of Perry should help out
    quite a bit this year, as this was one of the biggest problem areas the
    faids had lasted year. With Mosebar, Wiseniewski (sp), and now Perry on
    the O-line, the faids should have one of the better O-lines around.
    
    Now if they could only sign Tim Harris and/or Sam Mills to help out the
    linebacking situation, and Montana, or Hebert,( or maybe even Majik,
    Bono, or Testaverde ) to help the QB situation, and the faids are just
    about a lock for nexted years championship....:-)
    
    Carloski
    
    PS - Thanks for the info on Sugah-bear...
    

    My mistake Vinny,
    I don't exactly recall what yard line the raiders were on when Stabler
    threw that pass and they called the penalty on Hamilton. Suffice it to
    say it was a 15 yd penalty and an automatic first down. At least one if
    not two "unsportsmanlikes" were called on the Pats after that. Bottom
    line is that the dang ball ended up on the one or two yard line without
    the benefit of an "red zone" drive by the Raiders. At least that is how
    I remember it ( I think!)
    
    MikeL
    

      Ha,  Gerlad Perry and Testaverde would be a great combo!  Another
    never to be QB would make sure the faids won't get it done on
    offensive.  The rest of the west would like it!
    
      Perry should fit right in.  Of course he's been in LA for 2 years. 
    Has he been beating up prostitutes out there like he did in Denver?
    
      Tim

 Big Game, if you're out there could please do us a favor and find out 
 Uncle Hootsie's feeling about Perry the Raider...If I'm not mistaken
 wasn't he one of Hoot's favorite Broncos?????///

 mike

    
    	Exactly what I was thinking MikeyC.  Big Game, ask him 
    	what he thinks of the "Denver Death Grip" master joining
    	the faids....... :^)
    
    Claybroon

    re- last .2,
    
      Funny!  I forgot about that.

    	Rams are claiming that the Raiders tampered with Officer Perry
    prior to March 1st.
    
    				/Don

    
    >	Rams are claiming that the Raiders tampered with Officer Perry
    > prior to March 1st.
    
    'Course it was Upright Uncle Al who delayed the ratification of the
    bargaining agreement in large part because of his objection to the
    length of the signing period, so wouldn't you know that after they got
    this rule straightened out and on the books he'd be the first to break
    it...
    
    glenn
    

    Bye Bye Ronnie Lott....

    As far as I'm concerned it's just more of the same old anti-Al
    propaganda. The media justs eats that stuff up, but you gotta know that
    if he was even half as crooked as they make him out to be, he'd have
    been behind bars a long time ago. Just cause Uncle Al happens to know
    what the heck is going on, and the Rams are in a little pain now that
    they've realized what they just lost (so they cry foul play), is no
    reason to paint that same old tired picture of Uncle Al as some sort of
    Mafia-Crime Boss of the NFL. If Perry meant that much to the Rams they
    shoulda protected him instead of whining about it now that he's gone.
    
    HtH
    
    Carlos
    

      Maybe Al should go out and find as many Heisman winners as
    possible;^)   That should get them a ring...
    
      Now that Lott is gone,  who will be the backbone of the defensive
    backfield?  I have seen games where Lott seemed like the only faider on
    the field.
    
    
      Where is Joj_*?  I figured with this news,  he would be in here...
    
    
      Tim

    Lott has been in the NFL for 12 years.  How much could he possibly have
    left?

    
    
      Re Backbone of the Backfield....
    
       Try Eddie Anderson...
    
    Chappy

    Now where have I read this before...
    Lot(t) going to the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah(sp)
    
    

   > Well, I don't know, but two years ago when the faids picked him up   
   > people were saying 'he's been in the NFL for 10 years.  How much could   
   > he possibly have left?'
    
    I was one of those people questioning why the Raiders signed him to 2
    years.  I thought at the time that he had a year left, and that's all
    the niners thought, which is why they would only give him one year.
    
    brews

    Jets reportedly signed Lott for 2 years.  
    
    If a 34 year old man is the backbone of your defensive backfield,
    doesn't that tell you something about the rest of your backfield?

    
>    If a 34 year old man is the backbone of your defensive backfield,
>    doesn't that tell you something about the rest of your backfield?

 I don't know Mac what does it tell you? I think it takes just a bit more
 than athletic ability to be the backbone. Lott as a safety is like LT as
 a LB, a 1/2 of either player is better than 75% of the rest of the league...

 mike

 ps. JoJ has left ::Sports because he doesn't work here and shouldn't be in
 here. I believe he just got back from a week of skiing with Riggen. So maybe
 Jeff can tell us how he feels....

    That one 34 year old man I wouldnt want tackling me :-)
    I think he play 2 more years (and play good enough)
    
    						MaB

    The faids will be entertaining QB, Bobby Hebert of the Saints nexted
    Tuesday & Wednesday, Hebert is also trying to work out a deal with N.O.
    to stay with the Saints...and his agent seems to think he's worth 3 to
    4 million bucks per year....hmmmmm?
    
    Carloski
    

    Not to sure, cause I missed the beggining, but I think I heard ESPN
    reporting this morning that the faids would also be talking to
    Hostetler sometime soon ????  IMHO, both Hebert and Hoss are better
    than Shredder, but I think the faids would be alot better off going
    after Joe...who's probably got another good year or two left in him,
    and would also serve as the best possible example for TM to follow.
    
    Carloski
    

	Jo Wyoming would not fit in with the Raiders. Al's teams have always
been long bombers. Jo could'nt live in LA after throwing all those dink passes
in the SF/Walsh type of short pass offense. Look at the Raider greats. Lamonica
Stabler,Plunkett, even though Stabler did have the long ball arm. All big play
long bomb QB's 

  Cadzilla

    Yeah but..that's why he'd fit in so good, TM's not exactly the long
    ball type either......although both can get it there if'n they have to.
    
    If TM is to be the Raiders future QB, then there is nobody better for
    him to learn from than Joe (because of their similar playing styles)
    and possibly nobody worse for him to learn from than Shredder (also
    because of their playing styles...or lack there of).
    
    
    Carloski

      Hoss better than Shredhead?  Not much of a comparison.  They both are
    average QB's IMO.  Hoss chokes like Jay when preasured, or at least the
    times I've seen him play.  Hebert would be better,  but then again, the
    saints OL is better than the faids IMO, so who knows how he would do?
    
      Uncle should just stay with TM!  TM will be worthless if Al doesn't
    go a full season with him.  Montana would help the faids.  Couldn't
    hurt them,  thats for sure!  Now that Joe has rested his arm,  he still
    may have a long ball left.
    
      Tim

    Raghib 'Rocket' Ismail has received permission from the Argonauts
    to talk with Uncle Al and co. about possibly playing in the NFL.
    Uncle Al should sign the Rocket and get Joe down there too IMHO.
    Could you imagine Tim Brown on one side, with the Rocket and Willie
    'butter fingers' Gault on the other, with Joe as the delivery boy?
    
    Carloski
    

    
    
           TM Sips.....

You're dreaming Carlos. The Raiders may end up with the fastest receiving
corp. but that's about it. The Rocket doesn't know how to run a pattern
and his hands are suspect, how good could Wright be if the speed demon
himself JJ cut him loose and Gault's always been unrealiable so that
leaves Brown as the only real threat and he's hurt 1/2 the year...

mike

ps. Joe can't throw a bomb. All of his big plays wre due to Rice or Taylor
running 40+ yards with the ball

    Raiders :== Has Been Haven
    
    
    JaKe
    

    I feel I must come to the defense of Jake after Caloski's vicious
    attack.
    
    Jake is certainly not a has been
    
    You have to be something first to be a has been.

    Thanks a helluva lot, MAC!!
    
    I too am/was something, my Dad always told me, but I think what he used
    to tell me I was would get set hidden in here.   (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    Always glad to help you out, Jake.

Are we seeing a kindler and gentler MtM??

The Crazy Met

Mike,

Johnson let Wright go because of his work ethic. That and the 
fact that he can't run a route or catch the ball. He sure is 
quick tho....

    Anybody else heard the rumors that the faids are close to signing
    Hostetler......?
    
    Not to sure yet, but if they do sign him, I don't think he'll be the
    answer to their prayers....although he cain't be any worse than
    Shredder (can he ??).
    
    Carlos - Who thinks they could have done better....but, could also
             have done worse...
    

    Yo Carlos,
    Three ND main wif Joe and Rocket wif Brown. Cain't go wrong. But
    Childsey is right. The only pattern po' Rocket can run is da fly.
    
    MikeL
    

    It's official.....Hostetler will be the QB of the faids nexted year!
    He signed a three year contract worth $8.(something or other) million
    bucks. I just hope the faids change their style to match Hoss'
    abilities instead of trying to make Hoss conform to their ways.
    
    So far the faids have addressed two of their three biggest needs (IMHO) 
    thru the free-agency market; the QB position, and the offensive line.
    Now Uncle Al, and Shell need to go out and get Sam Mills or Tim Harris,
    to help out the linebacking situation.
    
    Carloski
    
    

>    It's official.....Hostetler will be the QB of the faids nexted year!

Well, you got a QB, but you didn't get a leader...


>    He signed a three year contract worth $8.(something or other) million
>    bucks. I just hope the faids change their style to match Hoss'
>    abilities instead of trying to make Hoss conform to their ways.
    
Well, they should flood half the field with their receivers, because
Hoss only looks at half the field before getting happy feet and taking
off.  If they send a receiver to the half of the field he doesn't
look at, he'll be lonely all day 8^)



Good luck....


'Saw    

    
    
         Now that we got a starting QB. When will TM be waived? I can't
    wait.
    
    Chappy

    
    
             DEAR CARLOSKIWITZHEAD
    
                  First of all Shredder is not my hero. :-)
    
    
              Second of all TM will never, I repeat never be one of the
    best QB's around. Sooner or later you'll see it, but he hasn't got the
    Arm and he's got happy feet......
    
    Chappy

>    but he hasn't got the
>    Arm and he's got happy feet......
    
Sounds like Hostetler.....

    Apparently the delay in signing Hoss was due to the Eagles' brass
    contacting Unca Al about a possible trade for Randall....which is most
    likely not gonna happen no more seeing as how they did go ahead and
    sign Hoss.
    
    Also, Unca Al will be talking to the Rocket's agent this week....
    
    Carloski-head
    

    
    
    Carloskiwitzhead (tm)

      8 mil for Hoss?  Thanks for todays humor!

      Hoss didn't win that game,  Norwood did;^)

    Should be kinda interesting to see how much the faids defense changes
    this year. Not only did they get a new defensive line coach (Hamilton),
    but they also got a new linebackers coach that's supposed to be a
    pretty bright young guy, his name escapes me right now but I'll try to
    put something in here about him later. Also, the faids are often
    credited with being the old-timers of the league, but they've got some
    good young talent that should be taking over soon. Between Chester
    McGlokton, Nolan Harrison, Anthony Smith, and Willie Broughton the
    faids could have one of the youngest defensive lines around.
    And if you consider that if Stacy Toran, and Scott Davis were still 
    around. Plus it don't hurt at all that Howie's coming off a pro-bowl
    season, and Townsend's still around. 

      Thats a good one Caritos!

    
    
    
    
        free agents signed by AL Davis
    
    
    OT Gerry Perry
    QB Vince Evans
    QB Jeff Hoss (sp)
    P  Jeff Gossett
    
    
    Mike

    
    
    
>        free agents signed by AL Davis
    
    
>    OT Gerry Perry
>    QB Vince Evans
>    QB Jeff Hoss (sp)
>    P  Jeff Gossett
    
    
  I'll bet the rest of the West is shivering over these signings...

 mike

    
    Yabbut I got .100!
    
    I remain,
    making shivers at the prize!
    Kev
    

    
    >>Yabbut I got .100!
    
    >>I remain,
    >>making shivers at the prize!
    >>Kev
    
    That's nuthin.   Why don't we see if we cain get this note up to .10000
    by nexted Friday!!!!!
    
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Yabbut mebbe we cain try but firsted,
    
    where's JD?  He could make it A LOT easier on us, donchaknow!
    
    I remain,
    .9998 ta go
    Kev
    

    
    
    >>I remain,
    >>.9998 ta go
    >>Kev
    
    Wrongo Kevster, .9897 to go now.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
   >  ROYALT::FORGET "LA Raiders #1" 
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    It's been so long, it ain't hard to forget

      Thanks for the laugh Mike C!!!!
    
      Sheet,  with Geratol Perry and his death grip,  the faids will be
    penalized so much,  Hoss will have to throw the ball more than 10
    yards.
    
      And as to Hoss sceering the west,  c'mon!  I don't give a HOOT,
    regardless of his ring!  The faids will be #4 in front of the
    seachickens this year.  They still don't have LB's worth talking about.
    
      Watch for wrong way Jay to be starter come mid season,  if he is
    still with them!
    
      Tim

you want a good laugh Tim, check out my last reply over in WWF::Wrestling...

;^)

    
    Yabbut HEY!  I'm in SALES!  I ain't no stinkin engineer!  I don't need
    no stinkin 'rithmetic!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    creatively contemplating 2+2=?
    Kev
    
                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 46.103                    Los Angeles Raiders                    103 of 106
PFSVAX::JACOB "Reality, 4 people who can't face dru" 11 lines   8-APR-1993 16:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    >>I remain,
    >>.9998 ta go
    >>Kev
    
    Wrongo Kevster, .9897 to go now.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Kev, are you really in sales, or still one of those Competitive Hotline
    sales wannabees?  8^)
    
    brews

    
    Brews,
    
    
    Yabbut now ya did it!  I am now forced to admit publically that I have
    been living the lie of Tyhipocracy and have been yankin yer collective
    chains.  I am (borrow line from the end of Tootsie) NOT really in
    sales,  rather, I am part of (gasp & get ready to duck the tomatoes)
    
    
    
    
    
    	Marketing!!!!
    
    Honest, really, we're part of marketing so I guess I'm a pseudo sales
    wannabee?
    
    I remain,
    with haid down in 'barrassment and shame,
    Kev
    

    
    I thought so.  So self respecting sales-ster would ever ask Riggins for
    help, and surely would never admit it.
    
    brews

      I don't ever recall defending Perry.  If I did,  it must of went
    something like,  he only had 1 holding call this week,  which is good
    for him.
    
      Now when it came to the HOOT & PARROT show,  well enough said!

Well, the Aints have gone off and signed future HOF Wade Wilson 
and declined to offer Herbert a contract, so the Raids are free to 
whine and dine him...

They'd be better off starting Evans.

daryll

    That's zactly what I was thinking Daryll.....well kinda....I don't
    think they'd be better off starting Evans. But I do think it would be
    nice to have Hebert around....
    
    I think the aints are gonna miss him this year...
    
    I also think the Chiefs or the Cards would be better off going after
    Hebert instead of Montana....
    
    Carlitos

      Starting Evans?  I didn't know they let FB players use canes when
    they are on the field;^))))))

    Yabbut (sorry 'bout that Kev), didja see that grampa burning up the
    field in the Raiders final game against the 'Skins! ...And besides,
    you're in no position to talk, old Bucky's getting a little long in the
    toof himself ('course he was proberly that way since he was two years
    old, but that's besides the point).
    
    Also, the Raiders traded a third rounder to the doinks for Gaston
    Greene. I guess he became excess baggage after they signed Bernstine,
    and DelPino? I like this trade though, maybe now they'll get rid of
    Dickerson and just go with Greene and Bell.  The Raiders also picked up
    free-agent linebacker Joe Kelly. He was a former firsted round pick of
    the Bengals in '86, and spent the lasted two years wif da Jets. He'll
    proberly be used as a MLB'er for the Raiders.
    
    Carlitos

      Carlitos,  Evans was playing when I was in Jr. high school!  or so it
    seems.  I'm 30.
    
    
      Gaston may be better suited for the faids than the Broncos.  A power
    runner he isn't.  He will fall over with just a nudge.  If he has a
    hole to run through,  then he can be dangerous.  Of course if he has
    Bell as a lead blocker,  who knows? 
    
      I think he will be a bust all together.
    
      Tim

    Evans was back up to Bob Avallini for the Bears.  I'm 30, and I believe
    Bob was the bomber when I was in Jr. High too...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach
    
    P.S.  I was always a Vince Evans fan, if the Bears had a receiver back
    in 'dem days Vince might have had a shot fer a ring...

Psst, Green was traded to the Rams....

daryll

    For what or who......?
    
    Carlitos
    

> Psst, Green was traded to the Rams....
>
> daryll

  Psst, the Atlanta papers are saying he was traded to the Raiders.

      daryll,  he was traded to the faids.  The local rag made a big deal
    out of it since it was an inner division trade,  which Denver
    typically doesn't do.  They just wave them and other teams pick um up.
    
      Tim

Yeah, the local paper was a typo.

never mind....

daryll

    I hope OL, Willie Roaf or LB, Marvin Jones will still be available for the
    Raiders nexted week. The Raiders have the twelfth pick in the firsted
    round.....so I think Roaf might still be there, but I don't think Jones
    will. OL, Lincoln Kennedy is also a possibility, but I think he'll be
    gone right away....and even if both Kennedy and Roaf are available in
    the 12th, I'd rather see Roaf in Silver and Black.
    
    Carlitos

    Dear Mr. Montana, welcome to the AFC Wested, I'd like to extend my
    personal wishes for a successful end to great career wif da Chiefs.....
    but unfortunately I cain't, seeing as how you proberly won't even make
    it through the year. :-) Considering you'll be facing the LB's of the
    doinks, the Chargers tough defense, the DL of the Raiders, and also
    having a 300+ pound Cortez Kennedy on your butt....I think it's gonna
    be a long year Joe.
    
    Lasted year Krieg got sacked 48 times, and now (thanks to free agency)
    the Chiefs are without one of their better o-linemen, Dave Lutz. Also, 
    Mike Baab is still up for grabs....I think the faids oughtta grab him
    just to make life a little rougher for Joe. :-)
    
    
    Carloskiwitz

    re-1
    
    
       Ha ha ha ha ha...I love it!
    
      So KC lost just 1 OL?  I thought it was 2, but if Baab is still
    marketing,  then who knows.  
    
    
      Good greeting card Carlos!
    
      Tim

    
    
           Great first rd pick by the Raiders yesterday. Patrick Bates S
    Texas A&M. This guy can flat out hit. He's in the mold of Tatum and
    Lott. Anyone know why they passed on there 2nd rd Pick?
    
    
    Chap

    I gotta agree with you Chappy, if Bates is even half as good as all the
    draft analysts make him out to be the Raiders done good. I also think
    they done alright with most of their other picks:
    
    Olanda Truitt, wr, Miss. St. - good pickup
    Greg Biekert, ilb, Colo.     - should help alot
    Greg Robinson, rb, NE Lou.   - this guys got some speed
    
    Billy Joe Hobert, qb, Wash.  - strong arm, but needs more experience
    James Trapp, db, Clemson     - never heard of him
    
    Carloski
    

    Dave Waymer died today.  Unknown causes... He was 34... If you want
    to move this to the RIP note or the Notre Dame note, feel free...
    

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Subject: NFL star Dave Waymer dead at 34
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 93 11:03:20 PDT

    	MORRISVILLE, N.C. (UPI) -- Los Angeles Raiders safety safety Dave
    Waymer died of unknown causes Friday after being taken to a medical
    center near his North Carolina home. He was 34.
    	Verna Bennett, a spokeswoman for the Lake Norman Regional Medical
    Center, said Waymer was in cardiac arrest at 8:20 a.m. when he arrived
    at the hospital 30 miles north of Charlotte. He was pronounced dead 20
    minutes later.
    	She said an autopsy was scheduled to be performed at Baptist Hospital
    in Winston Salem, N.C., to determine the cause of death.
	Greg Campbell, his Los Angeles-based agent, said Waymer was playing
    with his son when he collapsed at his home.
    	Waymer was a standout at Notre Dame and a 14-year NFL veteran. He
    played 10 years with the New Orleans Saints, earning Pro Bowl honors in
    1987. He moved on to the San Francisco 49ers as a Plan B free agent in
    1990 and led the club in interceptions for two sessons.
	When San Francisco drafted Dana Hall out of Washington, Waymer was
    allowed to move on to the Raiders as a Plan B free agent. He was
    currently under contract with the Raiders.

      Well this ought to make the faider faithful happy,  it looks like
    Wrong way Jay Schraeder is now a Bengal and will back up Klingler.  How
    quickly he changed his attitude from demanding to be a starter to being
    a backup with a bad team.
    
      So I guess this means that Todd (howdy doody) Marinovich is still the
    #2 Qb for your faids.
    
      Tim

    So long Shredder......BTW, I think Marinovich is still the #3 qb behind
    grampa Evans......unless Billy Joe Hobert beats him outta that. In a
    recent article in the Raider News Paper, Art Shell was saying that he
    felt they might have rushed TM lasted year, and now with the aquisition
    of Hoss, he feels the Raiders have two quality veteran qb's (Evans
    being the second), and the Raiders can take their time developing TM.
    He also says that throwing TM into the fire lasted year should turn out
    to be a positive experience for him. 
    
    Carlitos

    
    
            First of all (my obligatory)
    
                      TM SIPS.
    
          With Hoss as your #1 and Evans as your number 2, look for Hobert
    to make the team as the number 3 QB and an apprentice to Hoss. Maybe
    let TM play up in the CFL til he's "ready". Looking at Hobert's career
    highlights it looks like he has more talent than TM.
    
    JMO
    
    Chappy

    Here's a look at the Raiders 93 schedule:
    
                            LA Raiders
            Sept. 5  -- Minnesota, 4 p.m.
            Sept. 12 -- at Seattle (Sun.), 8 p.m.
            Sept. 19 -- Cleveland, 4 p.m.
            Sept. 26 -- Open
            Oct. 3   -- at Kansas City, 1   p.m.
            Oct. 10  -- NY Jets, 4 p.m.                          
            Oct. 18  -- at Denver (Mon.),  9 p.m.  (been 10+yrs since last     
            Oct. 24  -- Open                                   MNF at home)
            Oct. 31  -- San Diego, 4 p.m.                 
            Nov. 7   -- at Chicago, 4 p.m.
            Nov. 14  -- Kansas City, 4 p.m.
            Nov. 21  -- at San Diego, 4 p.m.
            Nov. 28  -- at Cincinnati, 1 p.m.
            Dec. 5   -- at Buffalo, 1 p.m.
            Dec. 12  -- Seattle, 4 p.m.
            Dec. 19  -- Tampa Bay, 1 p.m.
            Dec. 26  -- at Green Bay, 1 p.m.
            Jan. 2   -- Denver, 4 p.m.
    
    Carlitos

>            Oct. 18  -- at Denver (Mon.),  9 p.m.  (been 10+yrs since last     
                                                     MNF at home)

The Faids haven't played a home game on Monday night in 10 years??  That's odd
- anyone know if there's any particular reason?

Joe

    That 10+ yr. figure might be a little off, but it's definitely been
    approx. 10 yrs.
    
    Carloski

    
    
          Yup, Monday Night football is only played in Stadiums that have
    Full Houses. With the LA Coliseums capacity over 100,000 they don't
    have sellouts.
    
    
    Chappy

      I think its because of where they play.  Typically the networks like
    the stadium to look full,  and its not easy filling a stadium of 100k+.
    
      You would think they would sell out in LA seeing how what seems like
    every other teenager/young adult wears the raider garb, but in
    actuality alot of people that wear raider garb aren't really raider fans,
    and some of them don't even know the basics of the game. They just wear
    this stuff for "attention".
    
      tj

      Blame uncle Al if they faids lose out.

    Any of youze Colorado guys know anything about this Biekert kid the
    Raiders just drafted? 
    
    Carloski

    I would not blame Uncle Al for the reason they do not sell out as much
    as I would blame the configuration of the L.A. Coliseum. I lived out
    there when the Raiders moved to town and I remember a statistic that
    stated that only 30% of the seats are between the 20 yard lines. I
    believe that this is one of the reasons that the Rams left for Anaheim
    a few years earlier. If you notice the track that surrounds the
    football field extends way past the end zones at the end of the field
    that the columns are at. I think this is the end where the Olympic
    torch was placed. The coliseum was originally built for the olympics
    and not for football.
    FAST EDDIEF

    
    Did they build the Coliseum after the Raiders moved there and AL didn't
    know what it was going to look like?  How can you not blame him?
    
    
    brews

    
    
         Mac, there is no problem. They have the best record in the whole
    league on Monday night.
    
    
    Chappy

    Actually, the Coliseum was built for football. The Coliseum has been
    home to the University of Southern California football team since it
    opened. In fact, the Trojans beat the Pomona College team in the first
    football game played at the Coliseum back on October 6, 1923. Primary
    construction on the Coliseum was completed on May 1, 1923. Right now..
    ...as we speak, the Coliseum is undergoing the most extensive
    renovation since it was built. Previously, fans that were seated in the
    first few rows were pretty much at ground level and had a hard time
    seeing anything over the players that were standing on the sidelines or
    sitting on the benches. Also, the field, over 120 feet from the stands
    at the fifty yard line, was too expansive. It was never intimate
    enough. When the renovation is complete, the Raiders will have again
    have home-field advantage like the Doinks enjoy now, and like the
    Raiders used to have in Oakland. Changes that should be completed by
    the start of this season include:
    
    *The track being removed and the playing field and surrounding areas 
     being excavated down to a depth of eleven feet.
    
    *Whole sections of some of the least desirable seating have been
     eliminated, downsizing the stadium's capacity from over 92k to ~88k.
     (this will make it possible for sellouts to occur, and the broadcast
      ban to be lifted)
    
    *Fourteen new rows of seats have been added in front of existing rows -
     reducing sightlines from 120 feet at the fifty yard line to 54 feet,
     and tapering down to 30 feet at the endzone.
    
    *Greater handicap access and more seats for physically challenged.
    
    *Four times as many restrooms, and greatly improved concessions areas.
    
    *In 1994, even more work will be done. Luxury suites, and many other
     improvements are scheduled to be added.
    
    "Lowering the field allows for a better perspective for every seat in
    the stadium, especially the ront rows." said Don Webb, the renovation
    project manager. Instead of being at ground level, as it was before,
    the first row of seats will be four feet above the playing field. "The
    fans will get a much better view of the field. Their perspective will
    be greatly improved. I like to use the analogy of taking a piece of
    paper with writing on it and putting it on a table. If you try to read
    the paper when your eyes are on the same level as the table, you can't
    -- even if the paper is only an inch away." "However, if you lower the
    table a foot you'll be able to read the paper easily because you'll
    have a much better perspective. That's what happens when we lower the
    field. It improves everyones sightlines." Perhaps just as important is
    the fact that the crowd will be physically closer to the field --
    thereby making their presence and support that much more tangible to
    both teams on the field. "The  players are going to appreciate being in
    a more intimate facility with our fans," said All Pro CB, Terry
    McDaniel. "They'll be much closer to the action and I'm looking forward
    to hearing that roar of the crowd from Raider fans. Particularly on
    defense, it's going to be great to hear that support."
    
    HtH
    
    Carloski
    

sigh

Another track and field facility nuked for the almighty bucks of pro football.

    
    re -1   kwitcherbitchin.  If T&F was popular enough to support the
    facility, football wouldn't be able to determine what got built there.
    
    re -2  People really think that going from 92k to 88k is gonna allow
    sellouts?  There ain't enough people in LA who care about the games to
    sell them out consistently.  What is the largest crowd the raiders have
    seen?  You could buy playoff tickets to tomorrow's Laker game
    yesterday.
    
    brews
    

>    Any of youze Colorado guys know anything about this Biekert kid the
>    Raiders just drafted? 
    
   Greg Biekert is the classic overachiever. Nobody recruited him when he
   came out of high school. He sent video's of himself all over the country
   to try to get a scholarship but nobody was interested. When a Colorado
   player got injured and had to drop off the team, Coach Mac decided to give
   a scholarship to Biekert because he was a local kid. He only went on to 
   become a 3 year starter and the 2nd leading tackler in CU history(next 
   to Byron Wizard White). The pro scouts all say he's too small or too slow 
   to star in the NFL. But his football instinct's are as good as you'll 
   find. He always seems to be in on tackles and forcing or recovering 
   fumbles. He's even played great on special teams. He has the attitude that
   every coach loves to have on his team. He could be a total bust or 
   continue to overachieve in the NFL. 

		Keith

    Re: Raiders and the best Monday night record
    
    Too bad that most of their games are played on Sunday where they aptly
    demonstrate their inabilities as a football team.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    
    
           Plus, in rebuilding years the Raiders at least have some pride
    and finish 6-10 7-9. They don't become the laughing stock of the NFL
    and finish 1-15.
    
             They also don't have to moniker themselves as Amereica's team
    as the Cowadholescents did in the late Seventies to get more of a fan
    base. And don't say the Media came up with that either because a friend
    of mine has a team Media guide distributed by the Cowboys in either 77
    or 78 and the Title reads. "DALLAS COWBOYS AMERICA"S TEAM.
    
    
    

    Re: Raiders and rebuilding
    
    The Reindeers have done nothing other than rebulit themselves to
    mediocrity.  If that is something to pride then be my guest.
    
    The Cowboys took everything apart, and built a steady foundation
    and getting the best out of deals with other teams, especially the
    Reindeers.  The moniker of "laughing stock of the NFL" belongs to other
    teams which shall (Broncos,Partiots) remain nameless.
    
    As far as America's team, I would rather see the Cowboys carry that
    baggage instead of the favorite insignia of drug gangs.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    > The Raiders DON'T rebuild, they just reload!
    
    If the Raiders were a gunfighter, they'd be a rotting bullet-ridden
    corpse lying up on Boot Hill by now...
    
    glenn
    

    I see the Raider fans are showing their vast knowledge of ancient
    history again.

    Well we can't really brag about the future since it hasn't happened
    yet, now can we?  :-)
    
    Carloski

    
    
       
           The Raiders like other teams have made there mistakes while
    reloading. I.E. Schroeder,Marinovich,Wilson. But they have also made
    some outstanding picks and acquisitions. See... Marcus,Plunkett,Lott,
    The Rocket (real soon)
    
            I realize these players don't rate up there with those great
    picks of Russell Maryland (man he's tearing up the league on first
    down) and players like Fryar, Eason, Mandarich etc......
    
        Re-Mac... Ancient History?   Mac did you know that the Spartans in
    ancient grease were known as the first Raiders and that would prbably
    make the Atenians the first Patriots.... Al Davis's ancestor was
    probably Copernicus due to his Shrewd dealing.... But than again thats
    all ANCIENT history.
    
    Chappy

    
    
       
>>           The Raiders like other teams have made there mistakes while
>>    reloading. I.E. Schroeder,Marinovich,Wilson. But they have also made
>>    some outstanding picks and acquisitions. See... Marcus,Plunkett,Lott,
>>    The Rocket (real soon)
  
    Huh? Is Rocket going to the Raiders?? Teach him some pass patterns,
    willya!  
           
    
   
    
   >     Re-Mac... Ancient History?   Mac did you know that the Spartans in
   > ancient grease were known as the first Raiders and that would prbably
   > make the Atenians the first Patriots.... Al Davis's ancestor was
   > probably Copernicus due to his Shrewd dealing.... But than again thats
   > all ANCIENT history.
    
   > Chappy
    
   Chappy, the Norm Crosby/Prof. Irwin Corey of ancient history. Whoaaa.
    keep the day job and git some Funk@Wagnalls. 
    
    8^)
    MikeL
    

    
    What did Copernicus (sic) ever deal for besides a couple planetary
    sightings for a jail term?  I think your knowledge of history is as bad
    as your spelling.
    
    brews

Brews, wasn't it Galileo that got into all sorts of trouble??

The Crazy Met

    Galileo got in hot water with one of the Popes. Copernicus wrote about
    the sun as the center of the universe, no? Anyhoo, I don't remember
    Copernicus as being such a shrewd bidness main. He musta been thinking
    of Cardinal Richelieu or Peter Minuet. 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    They both did for declaring the earth revolved around the sun.

>    They both did for declaring the earth revolved around the sun.

Yeah, the NERVE of those guys.

Everybody knows that the earth revolves around Michael Jordan  8^)


'saw

    
    
       BTW the Spelling mistakes were on purpoise......
    
           I didn't Say Copernicus was a shrewd business man I said he was
    shrewd. He Kneww thigns(Knew things for you spell checkers) before others.
    
    Shrude:  Discerning; astute. Cunning, Cagey.
    
    
    Chapy( " " )

thanks Chappy and Carlos for reminding us all of the 1-15 Sowboys....
brought an instant smile to my face....

mike

    thanks Chappy and Carlos for reminding us all of the Super Bowl
    Champion Cowboys....brought an instant smile to my face...
    
    (paraphrased without permission)
    
    John "D Cowboys" R. :)

    Other teams have won the SuperBowl, but have any others ever sank to
    the lowly depths of 1-15 ????   Just wondering.
    
    Carlitos

    
    > Other teams have won the SuperBowl, but have any others ever sank to
    > the lowly depths of 1-15 ????   Just wondering.
    
    So what?  Nobody ever made the outrageous assertion that the Patriots
    are just in a 10-year "re-loading" cycle.
    
    glenn
    

    Carlitos,
    
    Bragging about being over .500 in the AFC is nothing to write home
    about.  Granted the Reindeer are the only AFC team to have won an '80s
    SB, but since then NADA, ZIP, SQUAT.  
    
    The Reindeer will need to overhaul their team if they are serious about
    any type of AFC winning %.  What in your mind are ares of concern on
    this team, and what are the stregnths of this team ?
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    Biekert is highly regarded?  The reply I read about him said he is an
    overachiever considered by most to be too small and slow to play in the
    NFL.

    All kidding aside, I agree that the offense is the primary area of
    concern, esp the OL.  Re: Wright, don;t expect him to catch the ball 
    but he can sure run, so leaving him in as KR or PR is probably your
    best bet, or else use him as a decoy.
    
    BTW, what's the word on RB ?  
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    
    P.S.  You were right about the 2 SB in the '80s.

    > The
    > other noter was alledging that the Raiders have been in the rebuilding
    > cycle for the lasted ten years.                                  
    
    I used your term, "re-loading".  You said that the Raiders don't
    rebuild, they re-load, and assumed that you meant that they re-load in
    a pursuit of a championship, not a trouncing in the AFC title game.  I
    stand by what I said: the Raiders are no closer to a championship than
    they were 2 years ago, 5 years ago, or since they won their last one
    10 years ago.  Unless there's some method to the madness of the
    revolving door strategy at QB, head coach, etc.
    
    glenn
    

So are they going to stop yanking Nick Bell around like a yo-yop and give him 
some decent PT this year? He's only been impressive every time Shell lets him
in the game for more than 5 carries and yet the next game he's riding pine.

Either he has some really crappy practices or Shell wouldn't know a good 
running back unless Al told him.


Metz

      All these replies in here in 1 day?  Look what you've gone and done.
     
      You still need help at WR.
    
      Sam Graddy has been around for what 5-6 years.  He's scared to catch
    the ball and never made an impact with either the Donks or Faids.
    
      The Rocket is not proven,  so you can't even include him even if he
    was signed.
    
      The others are rookies.
    
      Gerold "Death Grip" Perry may help, but I doubt it.  HOOT would
    scream if he heard of you saying Perry will strengthen the OL.
    
      
       Tim

    
    
              I feel the Raiders have no weakness at WR. Tim Brown is one
    of the best Wr's in the game,(if someone not Schroeder not Marinovich
    can get him the ball.) Willie Gault is Old but still one of the fastest
    men in the game and makes alot of clutch receptions. Graddy can prove
    to be a real good reciever if he can stay healthy. With Wright's speed
    he will demand a great cover guy opening that up for the other reciever
    (brown) to be covered by another DB. Overall the recieving corp. is
    adequate if Hoss or Hobert can get them the ball. Where the Raider
    weakness is, is in the LB corp. The Raiders need that hard hitting
    speedy LB who can stop the run.
    
    Chappy

       What the Rocket has done in the CFL doesn't mean squat in the NFL. 
    The field is smaller in the NFL, and of course the caliber of players
    is better, thus IMO he would have a tougher time at doing anything.
    
       I forgot about Fernandez at WR.  
    
      Tim

    
    
         Thats true other great CFL players all sucked too. IE Warren Moon,
    
    
              The Rocket will be a "good player in the NFL. But for those
    of you who said that the recieving corp. is weak I believe
    Corloskiwitzhead and myself have thoroughly proved, your wrong. Lets
    move on shall we?
    
    
    Chappy

    
>    Not proven! Why he's practically been carrying the Argos the lasted
>    couple years.
    
    And did you happen to notice where Toronto finished last year?
    
    
    Joe

    Mervyn Fernandez (wr) got traded to the 49'ers for an undisclosed '94
    draft pick.....at least we know it's gotta be an eighth rounder or
    better.  :-)
    
    Carlitos

    
    
    
      The Raiders over the weekend have obtained James Lofton again.
    Lofton has played the last few seasons with the Bills.  Also in
    yesterday Boston Globe, they said QB Todd Mavrioch (sp) has spent the
    off season on a surf board, rather than in the gym.  And he supposely
    not gonna report to mini camp.
    
    
    Mike

    Good news about Lofton (hopefully), but bad news about Fernandez.
    Everybody keeps on waiting for Lofton to slow down but he just keeps
    going, and going, and going......(where's that energizer bunny when you
    need him?). Also, don't worry 'bout TM not showing for training camp,
    he'll be there if his paw says he'll be there! :-)
    
    Carloski

Seems that the OLDEST team in the NFL just got older by signing Lofton. 

This team has a solid defensive line but it isn't very deep if Moss or Howie
are injured they have to mix up the line up to cover the gaping hole left. 

Offensive line is probably the greatest strength of the team. Now if Art Smell
would only play smash mouth football for four quarters. Seems that they start 
throwing for no other reason than to let this O-line have a chance to hold onto 
the defense for a 10 yarder.  

RB/FB good talent if they forget Dickerson/Allen and play Smith ?

WR/TE one of the better TE's with Ethan Horton can he carry the load  ?

CB/S Ronnie Lott is gone the remainder should get hit with several stupid 
penalties this year late hits spearing. Along with the offensive penalties this
should still be the most penalized team in the NFL. 

QB Toad/Hoss/Billie Joe/Evans... They should just snap to Steve Smith off 
tackle 
Prediction 4-11 behind the Seahawks. 

       4-11 doesn't add up. They play 16 games. I think that record could 
    apply to the donkeys since they usually don't show up for at least one
    game. Raiders should go 12-4 with out any problems, and go to the Super
    Bowl and win it.
    
                         Magnum

       Prediction - Raiders 11-5 or >???
    
      You been sippin' that home made wine again?
    
      Whats an ablet Carlos?
    
      Tim

    
    	<sniff>.....
    
    	Cuz it smells like a Raider fan over there.  Gotta wait
    	for the air to clear.....
    
    Claybone

    
    			Pre-season Schedule:
                         (All times local)
    
    Raiders -vs- Packers at Canton Ohio (HoF game) Sat. July 31, 3 p.m.
    Raiders -vs- 49'ers at Palo Alto, Calif. Sat. August 7, 4 p.m.
    Raiders -vs- Cowboys at Dallas, Sat. August 14, 9 p.m.
    Raiders -vs- Colts at Indianapolis, Fri. August 20, 8 p.m.
    Raiders -vs- Rams at LA-Rams, Sat. August 28, 9 p.m.
    
    Carlitos

    Reggie McElroy, T, signed wif da Chiefs....he's 6'6", 190 lbs. and he's
    been in the league for 11 years.....he proberly won't be missed to
    terribly much...unless the faids have alot of injuries like lasted
    year.
    
    Carlitos
    

    190?  and he's a tackle?
    

    oooops!, shoulda read 290.....sorry.

    Marcus Allen is gone....signed wif da Chiefs....you know he'll be
    having some good games against the Raiders too....big mistake Unca AL, 
    big mistake.....Dickerson will likely be waived, leaving Nick Bell, and
    Gaston Greene as the starters....Also the Raiders gave Raghib "Rocket"
    Ismail a 45 minute workout yesterday and were said to be impressed,
    expect him to be signed before the season opener...
    
    Carlos

      Why do the Chiefs want Allen?  They have 3 other good backs, unless a
    trade is coming.  Allen won't be a starter.  Maybe the he will be a
    Roger Craig type for Joe smoe...
    
      Tim

 
 I would think they'll be trading one of the other three probably Okoye.
 
 Looks like like Hunt is trying to buy himself one more SB appearence
 in his lifetime. As one of the big shots amoungst the "good ole boys"
 he must be loaded....

 mike

    Allen will come in to catch passes out of the backfield, a la Craig...

    Also, there's no body better than Marcus at getting the ball into the
    endzone on short yardage situations.....(he's got that patented 'diving
    over the top' thing going still).
    
    Okoye would be a good pick up for the Raiders if'n the price ain't to
    high.
    
    Carlos 

    Looks like Al's gambling on the Rocket...
    
    
    
    You've got to know when hold 'em,
    Know when to fold 'em.
    Know when to walk away... and know when to run
    You better hold(?) your money, when sittin' at the table,
    there'll be time enough for countin, when the dealin's done.
    

    So was Johnny Rogers...
    

      Take this country crappola to the junk note.  Oh never mind,  it is
    in the junk note;^)
    
     Tim

So was renaldo Neamiah...

 But he still wasn't a good reciever in the NFL...

Metz

    
    I'm not sure he'd have been the #1 pick.  At the time, people were
    still laughing at the last heisman winner from ND that the RAiders had
    drafted.
    
    brews

    
    Current thinking in the NFL is that any 1st rounder, except QB's,
    should be a starter, their rookie year.  Brown wasn't.
    
    brews   

    Rison, Rice, Taylor, Irvin, Barnett, Reed, Sharpe, Haynes, Givens,
    Jefferies... there's 10 I'd take ahead of Brown... maybe top 10 AFC.
    

>    Moon, or Rice and Taylor without Montana and Young, or Irvin without
>    Aikman (matter o fack, a couple years ago when Aikman got hurt and

     Rice and Taylor have both done well with Montana, Young, Bono ...
     They'd be good with any QB in the league, Shredder included.    

  <<< Note 46.216 by MIMS::ROLLINS_R "Paying for decades of Demo.Congress" >>>

>    Moon, or Rice and Taylor without Montana and Young, or Irvin without
>    Aikman (matter o fack, a couple years ago when Aikman got hurt and

>>     Rice and Taylor have both done well with Montana, Young, Bono ...
>>     They'd be good with any QB in the league, Shredder included.    


Betcha Johnny Smellway could find a way to over-throw them, make em' look
bad....

    Suffice it to say that Rice and Taylor are in the stratosphere.
    
    I think Brown is a solid receiver and could be in the Top 10 Club
    (so subjective) this year.
    Now if he can only teach fellow ND'er Rocketmain how to run a decent
    pass pattern....
    
    MikeL
    

Subject: Lawyer says 'Rocket' to land with Raiders
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 15:15:40 PDT
 
	TORONTO (UPI) -- The agent for Raghib ``Rocket'' Ismail said Monday
the former Notre Dame star who spent the last two seasons playing
professional football in Canada is very close to signing with the Los
Angeles Raiders.
	Ismail, who spurned the NFL in 1991 to join the Toronto Argonauts of
the Canadian Football League for a four-year, $20 million deal, had a
private workout session last Tuesday at the Raiders' training facility
in El Segundo, Calif.
	Attorney Bob Woolf called the chances of Ismail returning to the
Argonauts ``slim-to-none'', and he also said he has met with Raiders
owner Al Davis to discuss the terms of a contract between Ismail and the
Raiders.
	``The talks are going very good,'' Woolf told UPI in a telephone
interview from his Boston office.
	Woolf would not say how much Ismail is seeking, but he has told
reporters he is looking for a multi-year deal at more than $1 million
per season.
	``We are hoping for a figure that equals what the Rocket's talent is
worth,'' Woolf said.
	Ismail, who signed a series of four one-year deals with the Argonauts
on the eve of the 1991 NFL entry draft, was brought to the CFL in hopes
he would be a high-profile player who could raise awareness and revenue
for a sagging team and league.
	Ismail signed a personal services contract with Argonaut owners,
Bruce McNall, Los Angeles Kings captain Wayne Gretzky and actor John
Candy, which obliged him to make promotional appearances and perform
public relations duties for the team.
	McNall said through a spokesman Monday he is refusing comment until
all negotiations are finalized.
	The speedy and explosive receiver and punt returner had performed
well on the field for the Toronto Argonauts, but his reclusive nature
has made him a failure as the off-field marketing tool the team and
league desperately need to survive.
	Woolf said the personal services contract has been discontinued but
he said the Argonauts still owe Ismail money guaranteed in the contract.
The Argonauts say they owe Ismail nothing since he did not live up to
his off-field expectations.
	Argonauts general manager Mike McCarthy said Ismail had a tremendous
impact on football in Canada with his on-field success.
	``Attendance went up, there was an awareness of Canadian football (in
Canada and the U.S.) and his on-field performance was elite,'' McCarthy
said from the Argonauts' training facility in Guelph, Ontario. ``People
actually knew where Canada was (because of Ismail).''
	Ismail, second in the 1991 Heisman Trophy balloting to Brigham Young
University quarterback Ty Detmer, was touted as a high first-round pick
by many NFL scouts before he signed with Toronto. Despite his signing,
the Raiders drafted him in the fourth round.
	In his first season with the Argonauts, Ismail had 3,049 all-purpose
yards and became only the second player in CFL history to gain over 3,
000 all-purpose yards in a single season. He led the team to a victory
in the 1991 championship game over the Calgary Stampeders, and he was
named the game's Most Valuable Player.
	Last season, Ismail recorded almost 3,000 all-purpose yards despite
missing four games with injuries, but the Argonauts missed the playoffs.


    carlos (the soon to be G-man)
    
    

>    carlos (the soon to be G-man)
    
	Care to elaborate?
    
    

Smart man......

      You mean another faider faithful leaving?  Chappy might be the only
    one left to "harrass"?  It just won't be the same.
    
      Tim

    .....even more interesting Raider news....I could just about swear that
    earlier this morning I heard on ESPN's Sports Center that the Raiders
    were also very close to signing Majikowski (sp?)...? Also, the Toronto
    newspapers are reporting that the Rocket has landed in LA, but Rockets
    agent is denying it, and the Raiders aren't saying anything...
    
    Carlitos

    
    
        Yes this must mean they have finally given up on that
    SuckbagNonarmHavingfu#$head..... TM
    
    
    Chappy

      Now all they needs is 3 more RB's to top off that powerful offense
    led by death grip Perry;^)

Heard the Majkowski rumor - would be a blow to the Pack, but he is awfully 
expensive for a second string QB.

    
    	Good luck Carlos!
    
    Claybone

      Though we havent always agreed on everything or anything at that,  I
    do wish you good luck on your new adventure.  Hopefully DEC, or DIGITAL
    for the new mindset, will pay you to leave, just like it has for many
    others, that way you leave with a smile and another job!
    
      Tim

      Now back to it,
    
      It won't matter who the starter is,  he will be benched every other
    week until the Uncle can figure out who is better.  Besides, Al is used
    to paying the big bucks to guys getting splinters in the rear.  He
    probably still won't use Nick Bell to the potential that he has.
    
      Vince Evans must be ready to finally hang the old jock strap up.
    
      Tim

      Read that Aaron Wallace is in trouble for raping a girl in Dallas
    during his college days.  I wonder if he and Gerald (I didn't force
    her) Perry hang out together (no punn).
    
      Tim

    I think that's ancient history already isn't it? I thought he got
    aquitted or something like that.  Still no official news on the
    'Rocket'. Seen something about Troy Aikman though, that kinda caught my
    eye......lasted year he was the SuperBowl MVP, but a couple of years
    ago when he got started, he lost his first eleven games. I wish the
    Raiders woulda shown that kind of patience lasted year with Marinovich. 
    TM hasn't even had eleven games yet, but he's already got four
    victories under his belt. (I think he lost about six?) If old Chappy
    woulda been a Cowboy fan, he'd proberly have been crying for Aikmans
    head too..?  (  many :-)    )
    
    Carloski  (who still thinks TM's gonna be a good QB)
    
    

      Carlos,  make up your mind on Howdy Doody will ya?  He won't get a
    chance now that Hoss and Majik are the qb's (assuming Majik signed). 
    Maybe Seattle or the sqeelers will pick him up as a starter(seattle)
    or backup(pitt).
    
      Has he stayed outta trouble so far this offseason?
    
      I agree a "future" qb needs playing time, no matter who it is.  Alot
    of what are now good/great qb's started with losses over their 1st year
    or 2.
    
      Tim

Why the hell would Seattle pick up another (virtual) rookie? They've already
got Mirer and McGwire for QB's with absolutely no experience.

Metz

      Metz,  old habbits are hard to break.  Don't forget Stouffer.  He was
    a virtual rookie since he held out his 1st season with the cards.  
    What about that other guy from last year that brought back the hapless
    hawks against the on-the-road donks?
    
      Is Jim Zorn available;^)
    
      Tim

      I guess calling for his head (figure 'o speech) last year doesn't
    mean your anti TM.  I know you stuck up fur him for his 1st 6 or so
    games,  then if I remember correctly,  you were even having your
    doubts.  Weren't you agreeing with Chappy on his TM feelings? Thats
    what I meant by makin' your mind up.
    
      Yeh the Uncle wants to win now,  not 2 years from now,  so unless the
    other qbs get hurt,  then TM will ride pine.
    
      I don't know if this was posted,  but Eric Dickerson reportedly
    signed a 1 year worthless piece of paper with the falcoons and is to
    make 1.3 mil.
    
      Nick Bell will get his chance now,  'cause Green won't do the job
    IMO.
    
      Tim

     
          Good riddance Dickerson. Carlos is this still your last week?
    It's gonna be tough fighting off all these Bruncow, fans by myself but
    I'll try. Hey nexted year when TM either goes to jail or he is cut
    outright by the Raiders think of me and say I guess Chappy was right
    :-).
    
    Chappy

    
    
         Carlos is right he has never put down TM. I think he loves the
    guy. :-)
    
    
    Chappy

    
    Hey if it is any consolation, I will try to help defend against these
    Broncos fans.  The reason I haven't posted too often is I am in
    Colorado and fighting the great fight in person instead.  Hell you may
    recall that I said that the Rockies would finish with a higher winning
    % than the Broncos (to which Joe Cotach came up to my cube and said I
    was nuts...possibily 8^) and I'm sticking by that prediction.
    
    Marc

 good luck Carlos. I'll do my best to slap the Donks every chance I get...

 mike

      Mike won't do any Biffy slamming,  heck I could dig up a couple
    p_names that proves he's an Elway fan!;^)))
    
      As to you not antiying TM,  then my appologies.  I guess its seems
    too long between seasons.....
    
      Carlos,  you would be suprised how many faider fans there are around
    here, seeing how 1/2 of the people that work at CX0* are transplants or
    other people living in C. Springs are gang member wannabees.  Some sad
    days indeed.....
    
      Tim

    Eric Dickerson is officially gone now to the (Raider wanna-be) Falcons.
    He signed a 1 year deal for $1.3 Meg., and the Raiders will proberly
    end up with a 6th round pick nexted year.....unless Dickerson goes over
    1000 yds, then they'll get a 5th rounder.
    
    Carloski
    

    
    You gotta love the Raider fan mentality.  Praise the washed-up stiffs
    as they're coming in, and slam them on their way out.  Al Davis knows
    what he's doing.  Uh-huh.
    
    glenn
    

    
    
             That's because the Majority of the time when they come in they
    still have something to offer... ie (Plunkett, Alzado, Lott,
    Gault,Lofton) When they go out they usually have no more usefulness.
    
       And on Al Davis... I realize he isn't as shrewd as Lou Gorman, Glen
    but you gotta agree he still gets the job done.
    
    
    
    Chappy

                        
    > Plunkett, Alzado, Ben Davidson, Otis Sistrunk (sp?),
    > etc....etc... that come in from other organizations that considered
    > them washed up, and have contributed to the Raiders success.
    
    Ancient history.  In those days the Raiders were able to supplement
    with unwanted castoffs a solid team built on solid drafts that for 
    almost 20 years never faltered.  Those days are gone, and in their
    place is desperation.  Ronnie Lott may be an exception to the rule in
    recent years, but it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, because the
    Raiders were not legitimate championship contenders with or without him,
    and he'll be comfortably in retirement before they are again.  You can't 
    build an entire team that way.  Hostetler, Majkowski, Lofton?  Forget it.
    A large part of was left of the team's future died with Bo Jackson, and
    hasn't been replaced.  Just being objective...
    
    glenn
    

    glenn, the Raiders ain't doing things that much different now then they
    were 10 or even 20 years ago....IMHO, it's just that they've ran into
    some bad luck with unforseen accidents or events......they've also made
    at least one semi boneheaded trade....consider where they might've been
    if (like you mentioned) Bo hadn't got hurt.....or Scott Davis hadn't
    decided to retire....or Stacy Toran wouldn't have gotten killed in an
    auto accident....these are all players that were drafted by the Raiders
    that would be playing pretty near to pro-bowl level football right
    now.... but as fate had it they're not, and the Raiders have had to go
    out and try to replace these players through the draft, plan-b, & free
    agency...and if they wouldn't have had to replace these guys, they
    could've gotten other players at other positions and kept the ball
    rolling smoothly.  Also consider where they might be if they would've
    kept Lachey and continued developing Beurlein.....although at the time
    I was glad to see Schroeder after having Marc Wilson around...
    BTW, Lott is not the only recent success story either...Max Montoya has
    performed very (with the exception of last year due to injuries), so
    has Elvis Patterson on special teams, Mervyn Fernandez at WR, Bob Golic
    DE,......just to name a few more.....
    
    Carlos    

that a boy Carlos go out swing!!!!!!!!!

;^)

Carlos -


I've been a Raider fan forever - and what they have done as an organization now pales
with 10 or 20 years ago.  The teams of John Madden and Ken Stabler were built via
the draft.  That team was mostly draft picks.  With good acquisitions off the
scrap heap.  Otis Sistrunk was a semi-pro player, hence the University "NONE" 
notation in the lineup.  He wasn't a cast off from another team.

Stabler, Branch, Belitnikoff, Upshaw, Davis, Buehler, Davis, Van Eaghan, Hubbard,
Villapiano, Tatum, Atkinson, etc - all were draft picks I believe.

This team lost it soul when it moved to LA.  It took a few years for the Oakland
part of the team to fade away, hence the early LA success.  But since then, they
haven't built the team like they did in the past.

JD

Marv Hubbard also played semi-pro ball, I think.  He played in the 
same league with the Hartford Knights, and I *think* he played for the
Pottstown Firebirds, but I could have that wrong....


'Saw

    
    
    
    well this Saturday Afternoon is our first look this season at the
    Raiders.   
    
    
                           Hall of Fame Game
    
                           Los Angeles Raiders
    
    
                                   vs
    
                            Green Bay Packers
    
                                               Canton, Ohio   3:00pm

    
    
    
    well the Raiders looked good against the Pack, but not so good
    against the 49ers.  Does anyone know if Howie long has signned yet?????

    
    Howie signed yesterday.  Heard some LA reporter on the radio talking
    about Al.  Basically, he said that he has lost it, that the reason Lott
    and Allen left were because Al is gonzo.  Said Tim McKyer was ready to
    sign with LA as a FA, until Lott told him not to.  He went on to say
    that players as well respected as Lott and Allen will prevent Al from
    signing any decent FAs. 
    
    brews

     Uncle Al has been "Gonzo" for a long time :-)

    
    
      
    
                 L.A. Raiders & Dallas Cowboys 8/14 ESPN

    
    
      
    
                 L.A. Raiders & Dallas Cowboys 8/14 ESPN
		 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

		Bring an old TV and lots of veggies and fruits
		this one promises to be a stinker.....

 mike

The Crazy Met

    
    
    YIPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
    YAHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    YIPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
    YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    
    Todd Marinovich was Cut today.
    
    Yippppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    
    Uncle Al I still got faith!!!!
    No arm coke sniffin never was never will be!!!!!!
    
    
    Chappy

    Marijuanavich's Raider career goes up in smoke...
    

  I heard a rumor that the CFL(Columbian Football League) wants to sign him
  up.

	Keith    

Is he gonna be signed up for the practise squad after they expand the rosters?

Hard to believe he was beaten out by Billy-Joe ($50k loan...I didn't know it
was against NCAA rules) Hobert. Does this mean that Vince "old Man" evans is
still a backup?

What ever happened to the Snake Jr. and other accolades? 

KC or Tampa should sign Marinovich...

Metz

    re: .265
    
    That is a precious, precious, note. A Stankees fan talking about a coke
    sniffin player. hah!
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
          Are you saying that Yankees sniff cocacola.

>          Are you saying that Yankees sniff cocacola.


Howe could someone EVER think such a thing?????

    
    
    
    also waived yesterday was Kicker Jeff Jaeger & punter Paul Gossebar
    and WR James Lofton.  Raiders signed Rocket Ismail to a 2 year deal
    
    
    Mike
                                                                       

      I knew you would be a happy Chappy!  I don't know why they cut
    their 2 pro-bowl kickers (if I remember that right).
    
      MikeL eating crow in Feb!!!  The rocket will most likely get hurt.
    
      Tim

    
    
          2-0 baby. Brownies next week woof woof woof.
    
    Hostetler looked real good(First time in awhile I could say that about
    a Raider Qb in a long time).
    
        Tim Brown was everywhere.
    Anthony Smith 3 sacks and about 4 more hurries.
    
    
    Chappy

>    Hostetler looked real good(First time in awhile I could say that about
>    a Raider Qb in a long time).
    
I mentioned this in the NFL note, but Hoss's game has improved tremendously.

He's scanning both halves of the field, and he's gotten his "happy feet"
problem under control.   He lead the team well last night, and that
was my biggest gripe with him in NY -- he didn't lead.

Perhaps coming into a situation where there was no strong QB was the
best thing for him, and allowed him to develop a rapport with the players
and become a leader....


'Saw

    can someone tell me when/if the rocket signed ?  What his contract
    is, and some sort of verification that he indeed is under contract
    in the NFL.. Thanks in advance...
    								MaB

    He was activated this week...
    

    Some folks are real sleaze/wimps. They can gloat over the Yankees tainted
    win yet can't seem to face the music when their team BLOWS IT BIG TIME.
    Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen any comments from Chappy about
    his beloved Raiders collapse against the Browns.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
         Nice P_NAME TCW! :-(
    
    
     
             I was so miffed at Shell's playcalling yesterday in the 4th
    quarter that I just couldn't respond. Thaey just handed the bBrownies
    the game.
    
            BTW please don't use my name and anything todo with yours on
    the same screen. I can't stand Welchers and I don't want anything to do
    with them.
    
    
    Chappy

chappy, chappy, chappy - is that enought times for you?? this has real potential

The Crazy Met

    
    
    Getting 6 1/2 tonight is like taking candy (corn) away from Kev. The
    Raiders will win outright vs them overated Donks. Look for Smellway to
    get sacked at least 5 times.
    
    
    Chappy

      Elway will probably be sacked, but 5x?  Monday morning coffee being
    rough on thou head?
    
      Faids win outright?  Come on,  if Hoss is playing,  then look for a
    loss Chappy.
    
      Tim

    
    
       I don't think so Tim!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
           Did the Donks leave there Offensive line in GB?
    BAHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
    
    Anthony Smith plays alot like Donnie Basball.
    
    
    Chappy

    
    	Exactly Chap.  The new OL we purchased sure looked good last
    	night didn't they?  We want Gerald Perry back.  At least when
    	he got beat he'd pull 'em down from behind so BBJ wouldn't
    	get killed!  
    
    	The only guy showing any heart last night, for Denver, was
    	Bernstine.
    
    Claybone

        The donks were on the road last night right?
    
        OL sucked, special teams lacked, and the DL didn't put enough
    pressure on Hoss,  though he did get pounded once.
    
        Tim

game was in Denver.

The Crazy Met

    
    
         Yeah you know Denver, the Raiders second home! :-)
    
    
    
    
    Chappy

    
    
          But I tell ya. Terry Robiskie must be a Donk fan though cuz the
    way he was calling plays last night he wanted the donks to stay in it.
    The passing game was working great Hoss was getting all kinds of time
    and he keeps running the damn ball. I musta threw my remote control at
    Fluffy Too at least 5 times. They do great than they shoot themselves
    in the foot.
    
    Chappy

    So thats why you were so upset that Fluffy Too might be gone, nothing
    to throw the remote control at :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Road kill cats are great cuisine, prepared properly.  The best ones are
    the ones who got their haid run over.  Then, ya just take a good knife,
    whack the haid off, clean out the innerds, skin it(keep the pelt, cure
    it, makes a nice small throw rug, or pillow cover).  then ya wash out
    the insides with scalding water, stuff it with yer best "catnip"
    stuffing, back at 275 fer about 2-1/2 hours, basting frequently.
    
    Tastes just like chicken.
    
    If the cat got run over in the midsection, it'll already be gutted, so
    just skin it, an cut the meat in strips, coat in beer batter, and deep
    fry them, again, tastes like chicken strips.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Well the Broncos are 19-4 in their last 23 home games.  Three of those
    four loses to the RAIDERS 8^)
    
    Marc
    

      re-1
    
      Lunch isn't sitting well already (ate in the dec cafe) and now this! 
    I'm runnin' to the nearest restroom......

    
    >>  Lunch isn't sitting well already (ate in the dec cafe) and now this! 
    >>I'm runnin' to the nearest restroom......
    
    Well, if ya gotta hurl, do it in a resealable container and send it to
    the advocacy group bitchin about the Phillies being called fat and tell
    them you're supplying dinner.
    
    JaKe
    

It gets worse. Denver is something like 7-14 against the Raiders in Mile High;
They have a huge advantage over everyone else.

The Crazy Met

    
    
    
        :-)

      The faids have had the donks number for years, actually make that
    forever.
    
      There was this stat in the paper yesterday about Shell vs AFC west:
    
      7-1 vs donks
      7-1 vs seachickens
      3-4 vs chargless
      1-7 vs un-pc (in some opinions) Chiefs
    
      The donks have at least 3 chances in 94 to beat them!!
    
    

    
       SLIM CHANCES,
    
    
           MAGNUM

      Man,  sure is quite in here!!  Uncle Al must be having a stroke over
    this loss to the worse team in the NFL.
    
      I just wish I could have seen HOOT's, Parrot (aka Monty) and Carlos'
    faces over this loss when they heard/seen the score.  Chappy must be on
    vacation (-)
    
      Tim

At the Start of the Donk's Seahawks game Charlie Jones asked Todd about 3 times 
about the Raider loss. The only thing Todd could talk about was how good 
Denver played... HA !

    This was a huge loss, talk about a gimme game, this pushes them out
    of the playoff picture and they have to play at Buffalo next week.
    This team will be lucky to hit 9-7 and this might not be good enough
    to make the playoffs.  Id prefer to see the raider's over Denver but
    if buffalo has to make it then I hope Buffalo, NYJ and Pitt are the
    WC teams (or houston if Pitt wins the division).  Denver please stay
    home :-)  Id enjoy every playoff game with those 6 teams, and if Buf
    can somehow slip out of the playoffs I hope the Raider take there
    place :-).... I dont want buffalo representing the AFC once again,
    I can rewatch one of the past 3 years to see them blow a SB how about
    someone else getting in there.  The Raiders without Marcus Allen are
    just not that much fun to watch, and Hoss is an ex giant.. .Sorry
    Raider's, just no fun watching you this year... :-)
    
    not that anyone cares...
    								Mab

    Chappy watch day 1
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
         Shaddup!!!!
    
           Just moved our plant to Nashua. Hard to read notes never mind
    reply. Yes it was a devastaing loss, but with Terry Robiskie calling
    the plays and no RB this team is just a defense with no offense. The
    Yanks start soon don't they? :-)
    
    
    
    Chappy

    They shoulda lost to da bearz, too...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

      And the Jets....
    
      As to the faids being in the playoffs,  do they deserve to go?  Na!
    
      I thought Nick Bell was the next Larry Zconka(sp?)??  Or this new
    rookie was great?  I assume the OL is falling all over themselves?
    
      Tim

    
    10 of the last 12 meetings between these two teams ended within 5
    points.  Obviously the Bronco-Raider classic matchup was upheld again
    yesterday.
    
    First half saw Denver score on 5 out of 5 drives (made it 6 for 6 early
    in the second half) while the Raiders could barely move the ball.  Yep,
    Denver kicked some Raider butt, but in true Bronco-Raider fashion the
    Raiders made a great comeback in the second half (the Broncos were
    Hossed around 8^) and tied the game with no time on the clock.
    
    Overtime saw Jason Elam miss a 40 yard field goal that would have given
    Elway his 33rd "game saving drive"  Wide to the left.  Raiders drive
    and kick a 39 yarder of their own that wins the game and insured a
    playoff spot.
    
    Next week, the rematch...Denver at LA for the wild card game.  Should
    be another classic game.
    
    Marc

    
    
    
               Donks choke again in typical Denver fashion!  :-)
    
    
            It was nice spotting them 17 than pulling victory out of the
    jaws of defeat.
    
         We own Denver and look for another win vs the Donks nexted week.
    
    
    Chappy

    Yup,
    
    Had to be well over 50F, Raiders win!
    How about that typical over-hyped, no-talented ND alum, Tim Brown, huh
    Childsey??
    
    MikeL
    

After 4 years Tim Brown is finally getting the hang of it and I'm supposed to
chew on it? Can I expect another one of these replies in 1999 when the Rocket 
finally "gets it"?

mikey

    Tim Brown has been an exceptional receiver the last two years or so,
    Mike. 
    Now "Rocket" ain't never gonna git as a receiver. At ND, he never ran
    good pass patterns, but relied on speed. He was a great versatile
    player at ND; flanker, TB, punt/kickoff returner. As a receiver
    (technically speaking) he's average.
    
    MikeL
    

    Will Tim Brown still be a raider next year ?  Any news in LA on
    weather he'll be catching balls from hoss next year or in some other
    city (hopefully on the other coast and to the north).
    
    								mab

    
    As far as I have heard, communications broke down quite some time ago
    and both sides agreed to wait until after the season.
    
    Marc
    

    
    
        Happy to announce that......
    
        Mark Matthew Jr. was born at 5:45 January 4th. :-)
               (Chappy II) :-)
      Mother and son is totally healthy.
    
       And we watched our first Sportscenter together last night!!! :-)
    
                 Chappy.....
    
    

    
    >"What should Jr. wear #23 or #75
    
    My choice would be #75 8^)
    
    Congradulations, hopefully he will grow up to be an outstanding citizen
    and root for the Raiders too.
    
    Marc
    

Get used to being awake for Sportscenter...

The 2AM one.

    wouldn't he wear 16, Dwight Gooden's number?
    
    congrats...
    

    
    
    
          Not unless Yoseff's been around my house about 9 months ago?? :-)
    
    
    Chap

    Congrats Chappy... Too bad about the name though.... :-}
    
    
    REK

congrats Chappy!

#16 does sound good.

The Crazy Met

    
    	No way he could be a good citizen AND root for the Raiders.  The
    	two are mutually exclusive!  :*)
    
    	Congrats Chappy!
    
    Claybone

    Just what this world needs -- another Raider/Yankee fan .... NOT!
    
    Congrats anyway Chappy.

    
    
     Make sure to get Silver and Black diapers, since that is 
    the only thing those colors are good for.
    
    
     Congratulations.
    
    

    Its O.K. we sent Vince Evans over long ago to inject subliminal
    suggestions that make all Raider fans closet Bear Fans...  The
    young Chap has a chance!
    
    Congrats.
    
    Chip

    
>>  <<< Note 46.319 by WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M "Mark Matthew Jr. 6lbs 6 ounces." >>>

    
    
    
>>          Not unless Yoseff's been around my house about 9 months ago?? :-)
    
    Yoseff I wouldn't believe, but if'n ya told me it looks sorta like
    --dan'l, I'd damn well believe that.
    
    (8^)*
    
    Congrats alla yer family
    
    JaKe
    

      Congrats!
    
      And what Claybone said!
    
      And don't force your kid to being a faids fan.  Let him make his own
    choice...
    
      Tim

    He lives in New England, let him choose accordingly.  The sins of the
    father should not be forced on the son.

>    He lives in New England, let him choose accordingly.  The sins of the
>    father should not be forced on the son.
    
    exactly why I don't root for Detroit teams.  

    At least you'd be able to claim a couple of champeenships that way...
    

Of course he could also end up like Mike Paciello who roots for the:

Yankees,Dolphins,76ers,Canadians 

and still lives in NE.

The Crazy Met

    
    
    
       No I'll give him the choice of either loving the Yanks and Raiders
    or getting OUT!!!!!!! :-)
    
    
               He's already got 2 pinstripe outfits and a S+B outfit on the
    way. Plus when I mentioned Wade Boggs name yesterday he spit up so he's
    well on the way.
    
    
    
    Chappy

    when my nephew gits done wif his ND outfits in a year, I'll forward
    them to ya Chappy. Then he'll be a fan of a REAL righteous institution.
    
    MikeL
    

      Speaking of spitting up,  hopefully Hoss will do that with the ball
    this weekend.  He had to much time last week,  and that must change if
    the BRONCOS want to win.
    
      I'm sure Elway won't get as good of protection as he had last week. 
    The OL has been to inconsistent to give him 2 great weeks in a row
    against one of (if not) the best DL in the NFL.  I hope I'm wrong...
    
      Tim

    
    
    
        Mike he came out with a red streak in his hair doing the tomahawk
    chop. Even he knew who was #1. :-)
    
    
           Look for Hoss to have another great game. And for Elway to get
    pressured alot more. 
    
    
    Chappy

    >    At least you'd be able to claim a couple of champeenships that way...
    
    Walt, the Celtics won more titles than Detroit in the '80s in the only
    sport that counts in my house.

    No Tigers?
    

    Both my boys had Celtics t-shirts on the day they were born.  

    and not the gals?? Mikey, Mikey, Mikey how sexist :-)
    
    I think my nephews have outgrown their Mets outfits. Special delivery
    to Chappy comin' right up.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Not sexist, they're not into sports too much.

    MikeH you said the day they were born. I'm sure you knew then :-)
    
    The Crazy met
    

    
    Hey Claybone, where are you and the other (sorry) Bronco fans going to
    watch the game.  Maybe we can have a western version of the sports get
    together.
    
    Marc

    
    	What?  Me be seen with a Raider fan?  Shirley you jest!  :*)
    
    	I'll be at home with my nose in my Circuit Analysis II book.
    	At least one eye will be on the TV though.  Tim might be
    	able to make a get together though.....NOT!
    
    Claybone

    >    MikeH you said the day they were born. I'm sure you knew then :-)
    
    exactly.  I have these amazing powers that I don't like to talk about.

    does that also include speaking in tongues?
    
    The Crazy met
    

      I'm busy.

    
    
      Have a race that morning, and have a family the rest 
    of the weekend...
    
       
    

    TCM, the bailiff is gonna get ya if ya keep talkin like that.

    Chap.. 
    I know you and Chap_Stick Jr. will be watchin the L.A vs Denver game
    Tammarra...  Please don't Spike the Kid when The Broncos win.  :_)
    
    
    Crazy_Can't_Wait_To_See_Marky_Mark_Jr._Al

    
    
       Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    
    
          There are only 3 guarantees in life Murph. DEATH,TAXES and 
    3 o"clock Feedings.  :-)
    
    
                Chap

    
    who's deleting the notes?  

    
    
        I know a couple are mine?
    
       BTW I believe a couple guys need to go eat some lunch in note
    50.??????
    
    
          Lets go guys, in LA we eat it raw? ;-)
    
    
    
    Chap

We had some disk space problems over the weekend, so any notes written
before I took a chance and deleted some stuff on this disk this morning
didn't make it into the file, although entries for them did....


'Saw

    
    	It was great watching the Bronkos go down!  Good Job Raiders!!!
    
    	I'd like to see the Raiders kick some butt next weekend!
    
    	hw
    

2 sets of obnoxious fans silenced for now: Broncos and Steelers.
Next week: Raider fans.

The Crazy Met

    
    
    
          But at least them Donk and Steeler fans had a chance to be
    obnoxious cuz their teams were in the playoffs. Unlike the noise coming
    out of Jetland and Brownland.
    
    
    Chappy

    I don't think the Steeler fans in here are obnoxious.

In a way I'm bummed...I would have like to have seen a Buffalo - Denver matchup
to see who gets to go to the Super Bowl and get blown out...

Denver is only good at home...

Metz

>>2 sets of obnoxious fans silenced for now: Broncos and Steelers.
>>Next week: Raider fans.
>>
>>The Crazy Met

	Pot calling the kettle black there, TC*?


	billl

whatever. still nice to see the Steelscum lose.

The Crazy Met

    TC*, kwit yer damned gloating, yer making us sick.
    
    At least the STEELERS were there, and played a good game.
    
    JaKe
    

    watssa matter JaKe, can't take it when the shoe is on the other foot??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    i think the steelers should a won... elway is incredible though.
    
                        stig

    
    	Hey!  I'm a Donk fan and I'm not obnoxious.  I'm a jerk.  Get
    	it straight!
    
    Claybone

      re- .360
    
      A New Yorker talking about other people being obnoxious? In some
    cases maybe,  but for the most part, NY still owns that dubious
    honor(-)
    
      Tim  

When it comes to sports teams NY'ers don't have a lock on being
obnoxious. Anyways with NY its part of the cities character and
greatness; with other cities it is just a pathetic display of
bad manners.

HtH,

The Crazy Met

    Dennis Faust is well know for his corollary to Will Roger's remark. 
    Dennis never met an official he liked.

   >>  Dennis never met an official he liked.
    
      And when it involves the Iggles he "turns the game off" 
    
    :-)

      TCM,
    
      How do you get greatness out of being obnoxious?  I won't argue with
    it being the charactor of NY city...

Part of an agressiveness that makes it a town that is always on the
go, at the forefront of new technology and development. You may not
like that kind of a place, but that is what makes it a world class
city.

The Crazy Met

    re: cheap shots
    
    If I remember correctly what I wrote (and I went back and looked at
    it), I said the Raiders probably would have won yesterday. If you
    didn't think the officiating in that game was awful, you need to
    examine the rule book. 
    
    and to MtFM, there are a few officials I like, just not the ones that
    leave the seeing eye dogs on the sidelines. Based on your comment at
    me, I suppose you endorse players in street clothes coming off the
    bench to get into fights, taunting, and blown pass interfernece calls.
    I guess the years of being a Patsie fan have ruined your appreciation
    of what football should be.
    
    Dennis Faust
    

    >>I guess the years of being a Patsie fan have ruined your appreciation
    >>of what football should be.
    
    
    Candidate for "Line of the Year".  It's got my vote.
    
    JaKe
    

    and it's only January.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Based on your comment, unless it was just a personal attack against me,
    I inferred that you thought the officiating in the Bronco game was
    hunky dorey. That would men that you agreed with the events that I
    listed. Pretty simple for one with a logical mind. I could see why
    you're having a difficult time with it.
    
    Dennis Faust
    

    Nothing personal Dennis.  Just an observation based on your comments
    about officiating over the years.

>              <<< Note 46.373 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>   
>    Dennis Faust is well know for his corollary to Will Roger's remark.    
>    Dennis never met an official he liked.
    
    Not quite true, Mac.  I'm sure Dennis loved the refs that gave Philly
    the first Cardinal game.
    
    boC

	Brew, where do you come up with these p-names?  That one's hilarious!


	billl

    D. Faust		2
    MACNEAL		0
    
    If yer keeping score at home
    
    JaKe
    

    MikeH has been smoking the same thing JD has :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    > Brew, where do you come up with these p-names?  That one's hilarious!       
      
    
    >billl
    
    /er gave me that P_name, which I proudly wear as a result of a P_name
    bet that I wanted to lose.  Kinda a long story.
    
    brews  

    took 'ya long enough to start using the p_name.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    One more set of obnoxious fans gone.
    
    Hoping for a major Green Bay miracle tomorrow.
    
    Too bad about the Jints.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    	Tough luck Raider fans.  I was hopping you would pull it out.
    Can't stand the bills.
    
    	hw

    
    
       Quick alltime Raider Team.
    
    
    Chap

     Thank gawd!

    
    
    
             It is with great regret I announce that Howie Long has retired
    effective after the Pro Bowl. He is the last active player tie to the
    old Oakland Raider glory days.
    
    
    Chappy

I was never what I'd call a Raider "fan"... I'd watch them, and
root for them a lot, but I wasn't a fan per se.

I always liked Howie Long.  One helluva competitor and pretty
cool too.....

Gonna miss him....
'Saw

    
    He's a Townie to boot !
    
    

Who was it in this file that got his ass run over by Howie
playing HS football?

I know it was a regular SPORTS noter, and he mentioned it
at one point....


'saw

    
    	Is that anything like Kelly Stouffer knocking 'Saw on his
    	platestacker?
    
    Claybone

>    	Is that anything like Kelly Stouffer knocking 'Saw on his
>    	platestacker?
    
Nah, you got that backwards -- axe JD....

No Bob, there was someone in here, I'm pretty sure, who played against
Howie Long.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so....

     The only thing I remember about him is when he grabbed the Niner owner
    and was getting ready to rip off his haid and  S#$^ down his neck  :-)

    You're not thinking of Pat Sullivan's (Pat's owner's son) run in with
    Howie and Matt Millen after Patriot victory in '86?

    I thought he went after Debartollo(sp) of the niners, anyway he went
    after somebody. Just goes to show you how much I know about the
    Raiders.

    Howie would make a good commontater.

>>    Howie would make a good commontater.
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Lissen, we all know Howie's of Irish extraction, but is there any
    need to call him a_average spud??
    
    
    MikeL
    
    

    
>>Are you confusing that with me, who got my ass run over by Fred Smerlas?
    
    bob, I hate to break this to ya, but with yer size, were he steel alive
    Herve Villachez(sp?) could probably run yer ass over.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe

    rolllllllward bob.
    
    JaKe
    

    The L.A. Coliseum has suffered severe damage from the earthquake and
    has to be rebuilt.  There's talk now that the Raiders will be moving
    back to Oakland.  I think this is good news.  They haven't been the
    same since they moved.

They did win one SB when they were in LA.

On Imus each morning ESPN has a sports minute. Keith Obermann (sp?) did
the one this morning and went through the list of places that Al Davis
has moved or talked about moving the Raiders. Very long list, quite funny.

The Crazy Met

>On Imus each morning ESPN has a sports minute. Keith Obermann (sp?) did
>the one this morning and went through the list of places that Al Davis
>has moved or talked about moving the Raiders. Very long list, quite funny.

Bo Deedle had me laughing so hard this morning I almost drove off the
road.

Earlier, when he first came into the studio, he started talking about
sports and saying that the only thing that was important was the spreads,
never mind who won.

And he also said that if he'd been hired by Tonya Harding, he'd have done
the job right -- by whacking Kerrigan a few times, not just once.  He said
the guy they hired should have given the retainer back.

Finally, they decided that the cast of the TV movie about it would
have Gilbert Gottfried as Jeff Gilooly and Mike Francesa as Shawn Eckert...


I think they should move the Raiders into a trailer park in Oregon, just
so that I'm on track with this note....8^)


'Saw

    Yeah the local version of WFAN (KNNS) also carries those commentaries. 
    I'm surprised people still let Brent Musberger near a mic.

    The only talk about going to Oakland is from Oakland...
    

    
    
    
    Raiders beat Dallas  27-19   :-)
    
    Chap

     Doesn't count

    
    any of you Raider fans out there know where I can get seating info
    for the LA Coliseum? I am going to be going to DECUS in December
    and want to get a ticket for the 12/11 Raiders-Bronco game. I was
    told there are some $42 seats avail. Are all the $42 seats good?!?
    
    Anything on line I could print out would be great.
    
    Thanx,
    
    Joe
    
    DTN 264-4304 x4107

    
    
       BTW,
    
         Hadn't had the time to mention this earlier this week but, YES THE
    PATS WILL BE BROUGHT DOWN TO EARTH THIS WEEKEND. And their fan
    proclaimed god of a QB will be intercepted 3 times. 
    
    Chap

  The Raiders will get ground into hamburger.

  They'll be getting psyched for the post game fight with the GM which won't
happen and they'll forget to play the game. 

  Another close win for the PATS.

  George

    
    
    .............ground into hamburger.
    
    Thats original.
    
        George, who would be the bigger star in Drews backfield? OJ or
    Jim Brown?
    
        Thats not what Tommy said?
    
    Chap :-)

  This is football, you don't have to be original.

  PATS 34, RAIDERS 27.

  George

    
    
      Chappy....
    
     Are you willing to back that "by 14" nonsense up?  If you are just let
    me know.  I'd went at it with no points but sense your offerin.....
    
    Jerry

    
    
        Jerry Jerry Jerry,
    
          Me being the gambler I am even though I am extremely confident
    in my team, would be a fool to make ANY KIND OF BET w/o the just pts I
    deserve. Now if'n you wanna lay the 3 maybe somethingggg can be worked
    out? If not NEXT.
    
    
    chap

	I guess that means NO, he is not, and that he knows he's just
	spouting off.

    
    
         Just covering all angles. I think these P_name bets are stupid
    anyways? Home field advantage is worth at least 3? 
    
    
    Chap

    Chap hanging out in /Don's office?
    

    
    
      Well Chappy if I didn't know better I'd swear you were from
    Cleveland.  But I'll tell ya what see'n the spread is 3 I'll
    give you 2 1/2 and take the push thats the best I can do.  Ya
    up for it????
    
    Jerry

    Hey Jerry...You must be on a mission to dig up the chickens in the
    sprots bar.  Found a couple in cleveland and one in LA...Where
    ya headed to next?????
    
    Frank
    

    
    
    
       Sure why not,
    
    
            Got to keep the P_name all week, got to enter AT LEAST 1 note
    in here a day and must say at least 1 good thing about Raider/Pats
    fans.
    
         YES/NO
    Chap

    
    
      Cool....your on.
    
    Jerry

    
    
        A few Tidbits from yesterdays game.....
    
    
    1. Raiders gave Drew Bledsoe a game ball yesterday!
    
    2. Parcells has been in contact with Al Davis all night. He's been
    trying to acquire Terry McDaniel all night, seeing he is Drew Bledsoe's
    favorite receiver.
    
    3. While we are on Bledsoe, I hear they are now putting his bronzed
    statue in Canton in the closet for at least a couple more weeks.
    
    4. I saw Parcells on rte 2 this morning I said "Bill what are you
    looking for" he replied. "My running game".
    
    5. Massachusetts General Hospital made an announcement that they have
    got a large spike of ankle injuries reported throughout the state. It
    seems everyone jumping off the bandwagon have been crashing into the
    curb?????
    
       More later. :-)
    
    
    chap

It's not my style to bad-mouth or diss an opponenant of
the teams I root for (unlike a certain Raider/Yankee 
fan), so let me say this aobut the Raiders:

Hostedler (sp?) is the real deal.  I was never too  
impressed with him before, but I'd have to say he 
is at his peak right now.  He's beren in the league 
long enough that he has a terrific feel for the game,
but he is still young enough that his abilities have 
not sarted to deteriorate.

=Bob=

I think Hoss is 33.

I didn't see the game.  My main gripe with Hoss was that he didn't display
any leadership ability when he was on the Giants.  But I will say that the
change of team probably did him good.  He definitely appears to be the
leader of the Raiders offense....


'Saw

    
    
    Now that hurt

    Yeah, Bledsoe had something of a dog of a game, by recent standards.  
    It wasn't disastrous, though; he still composed himself enough to 
    bring the Pats back to a position that at one point looked as if it 
    would be insurmountable, until that goal-line fumble (thank god for all
    the Raider penalties before that, though; I have no idea what Parcells 
    was thinking about running the ball on 3rd-and-goal from the 6, etc.).  
    This running-game problem has reached critical mass.  Now that that's 
    been established in the defenses' minds the pass blocking is breaking 
    down, too.
    
    I'm not completely sure I understand the comments about Hostetler,
    though.  He was chucking the ball up for grabs on numerous occasions, 
    too.  The game was a fairly ugly affair all-around.  The Raiders sure 
    don't look like the pre-season "AFC Super Bowl-favorite" they were made
    out to be...
    
    glenn
    

  
|    Now that hurt

Yea, I forgot what a sensitive guy you are...

    
    The Raiders have learned a tactic perfected by the knicks: That refs
    use metrics on number of fouls and the more fouls called then the more
    you can hold and grab etc because the likelihood is the refs don't want
    the metrics to reflect to badly on one team.
    
    So what I'm saying is that game could have had 30 Raider penalties. 
    Also, by having a lot of penalties called it puts a mental block in the
    minds of the refs to try to give the team a break.  So when Turner laid
    the ball over the goal line for the td the line judge anaccountably
    froze.
    
    But to give the Raiders credit in the last 5 minutes they were BC and
    the PATS were Notre Dame (in terms of line play dominance).
    
    Billte

>    The Raiders have learned a tactic perfected by the knicks: That refs
>    use metrics on number of fouls and the more fouls called then the more
>    you can hold and grab etc because the likelihood is the refs don't want
>    the metrics to reflect to badly on one team.
>    
>    So what I'm saying is that game could have had 30 Raider penalties. 
>    Also, by having a lot of penalties called it puts a mental block in the
>    minds of the refs to try to give the team a break.  So when Turner laid
>    the ball over the goal line for the td the line judge anaccountably
>    froze.


One thing I learned from my rugby experience was how to test a ref.
Early in the game, I'd commit a foul -- nothing that would cost the team
points if possible -- usually something inocuous, like barging in a 
lineout or something like that.   If he caught it and called it I wouldn't
do anymore.   If he didn't call it, I'd progressively try to see how much
more I could get away with.

I think it's like that in football too.  If you're a lineman, and hold and
not get caught, then you'll keep on holding till you do get caught, I'd
bet....

'Saw

    
    
        I knew somebody would be bitchin about the refs today so here goes.
    
    
         The officiating was bad, but it was bad for both teams. Andrew
    Glover did not use anyone to propel him up to try and block that FG.He
    landed on someone but noone helped him. Turner's fumble was a TD, but
    his first TD wasn't he never broke the plane. Raiders were screwed just
    as bad as the Pats, but looking throught RW and Blue glasses, I guess
    you'd see it that way!
    
    
    Chap

    Hostetler fumbled that pass they called incomplete on that hit too..
    

    	RE: 46.446
    
    	I sure saw it that way, too. His arm had not started to move
    	forward.
    
    	Lots of bad calls.
    
    	Scott

    >>Andrew Glover did not use anyone to propel him up to try and 
    >>block that FG.
    
    	That's true, but that was not the infraction.  The way it was
    explained to me was that you are not allowed to jump in the air then
    land on top of the pile, which he did.  I'm not saying it's not a
    stupid rule, but it is a rule and he did violate it.  
    
    	I watched 90% of the game and I knew which ever team lost its fans
    would be blamming[sic] the refs.  Each team had some mirage calls made
    for them, as well as against them.
    
    	And to think these same officals were threatening to strike for
    higher pay.  You got ta earn it first!
    
    
    billl

>    
>    	And to think these same officals were threatening to strike for
>    higher pay.  You got ta earn it first!
>    
    
This is the second week I've heard about a poorly officated game.  Does
anyone know if this is the same crew that worked the NY Giants-Saints game
last weekend?

Lately, it seems that the officiating is suffering some quality problems, and
Jerry Seeman, instead of bearing down, has been making excuses for them.
The excuse he made after the unsportsmanlike call on Calloway last week seemed
weak at best....


'Saw

    >>Does anyone know if this is the same crew that worked the 
    >>NY Giants-Saints game last weekend?
    
    Unless I'm mistaken, they move around independently and don't always
    work with the same crew week after week.
    
    
    billl

>    Unless I'm mistaken, they move around independently and don't always
>    work with the same crew week after week.
    
Perhaps I was thinking of umpiring crews in baseball.

Jeez, where's Hendry when you need him?????


'Saw

	As I understand it, the football offcials *do* stick to the same 
	crew all year, they are "graded" after every game, via the game tape
	and the officials with the highest grades for his position go on to 
	the playoffs (were they get bonus money). The playoff crews are kind 
	of an "allstar" official crew who have not worked much together.

	But the regular season crews work together all year long, there may be 
	differnt crews for AFL / NFL, but I don't think so.

	Anyway thats how I understand it.

	Turk

    >> -< Anybody got the real facks... >-
    
    Wow!  Are you in the wrong place!
    
    
    
    billl

                
   >> Wow!  Are you in the wrong place!
    
    
	I gave it a shot....

	Turk

    Hey, I'm not jumping on the bandwagon fer the Faiders, but I will be
    rooting fer them tonight to live down to their reputation, cheapshot
    the hell out of the dis-Chargers, and hurt them so bad that they never
    recover this season.
    
    Go Faiders!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Hey Groaner, don't root too much fer the Chargers, they'll be the ones
    to make the 'Spots have a long ride home with their tails between their
    legs once playoff time comes around, that is, IF the 'Spots make the
    playoffs.
    
    BTW, if things stay the way they are RIGHT NOW, you'll be wearing a
    nice p-name when ya comes back, make that, IF ya comes back, from the
    Christmas holiday.
    
    HAHAHAHAHA
    
    JaKe
    

    The one we made in mail about which team finishes in higher position in
    the division.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
        Get out of 46 and get a room you two!!!

    
>    pname bet, what pname bet?
    
    
                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 32.991           **OFFICIAL** PITTSBURGH STEELER NOTE           991 of 1110
ROCK::GRONOWSKI "Dawgs RULE, Pats SIP!"               4 lines  15-NOV-1994 17:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Straight up bet pname bet for the division title... i'm in this one.
    

    Me and Groaner also made a P-name bet offline fer who finishes higher
    in the division, made it about the end of September.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    
                 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

    	Three "in the neutral zone" penalties on three consecutive
    	plays. Cryin' out loud.
    
    	Scott

    
    
    
    
          JUst Win Baby!!!

    
    
    
          Yep Yep Yep!!!
    
         5 wins over our hated rivals in the past calender year!!! Donks
    hug always have always will!!!!!
    
    
    Chap

    Wish part #1 has come true. Faiders lose and are out of the playoffs.
    Chappy quiet for a while, kinda nice.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    
      last night on ESPN SportsCenter they report that Joe Bungle
    (ex-Cardinal coach, NBC announcer) had lunch with Al Davis.
    Also rumoured a shake up in the Raider's team.

    
    
    
         Please fire Shell, Please!!!

>    
>         Please fire Shell, Please!!!
>


Well, the rap on the Raiders, at least in the papers here in CT and on
WFAN as well as WTIC is that the Raiders are a team with good talent, but
that they are a very poorly coached team.

Could be that the Raiders will get a new coach.....

    
    	How can the Raiders expect to win close games. When they
    averaged 10 penaltys a game, A new NFL record. They dug so
    many holes for themselves this year it wasn't funny. They must
    have led the league in 1st and 20.
    
    Ron

	I thought the ESPN spot said that Shell would be moved upstairs to 
	a corprate job, not fired, but "promoted", and that AL would get 
	replacement.

	Turk

>                   -< Joe Bugel is better than Art Shell??? >-


There's probably some Raiders fans now who feel that ANYONE would be
better than Shell....

    
    
        LA Raiders named Joe Bugel Senior Assistant Coach & Offensive line
    coach.

    wow how many assistant coaches is that.  Few more and they will rival
    Cleveland....  Did they get some new equipment too????
    
    

    Soon they'll have so many coaching slots that they'll offer Chappy a
    job.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	Art Shell has been canned.

	Kevin

    
    
       YES THERE IS A GOD AND HE SMILES OVER ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEE
    
    WALKAWALKAWALKAWALKA
    YUGGAYUGGAYUGGAYUGGA

>>       YES THERE IS A GOD AND HE SMILES OVER ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 Maybe it's a payback for what he did to the Yankees' season. Then again
 what he did probably saved you some misery. It certainly saved us some...

 ;^)

    Rod Rust has been signed as new Raiders coach

    
    
    
    
       Doooooooooooooooop

I don't know.

The new Raiders coach is one of the assistants.  

The rap on the Raiders has consistently been "lots of talent, poorly coached".
With that in mind, why would they name one of the assistants?  I would think
that they would have tried to take the time to find someone from the outside
who could re-vamp the coaching staff.

Any opinions?

    
    
       New Coach is Mike White.
    Former Off. Line coach!
    
       Al likes staying in the family. Thats why he stayed within the org.
    
    
    Chap

    
>>       Al likes staying in the family. Thats why he stayed within the org.
    
  
 No Al like having puppets who bow down to him...........

 mike

    It's not like Mike White is one of the Original Raiders or anything.  
    Not too long ago coming out of Illinois he was one of these rising 
    young talents in coaching.  I don't know what kind of coach he'll be 
    but the Al Davis Stooge label doesn't completely fit...
    
    glenn
    

 well Glenn, people do change and I agree Mike White isn't an original
 member of the family but through osmosis is probably one now. The only
 time I recall Al without a puppet was Shanhan and given how that turned 
 out I don't see Al hiring anything but a bowdowner....

 I could be wrong, it's been know to happen....  ;^)

 mike

  Didn't Madden coach that team at one point?

  Was Al Davis the owner back then?

  George

    
    
        Yes and Yes. And he was no puppet!

During yesterday's pro-bowl, they interviewed on the the Raider's receivers.
Seems like it was Tim Brown, but I can't remember for sure.  Anyway,
the guy had some pretty interesting and pretty candid comments.

Primarily, he said that it was hard to respect a coach when you didn't
know if they were saying what they thought, or just parroting Al Davis.


Jerry

	Report out of LA says that Art Shell has signed on as offensive line
	coach for the Chiefs.

	Kevin

	Announcement (according to CBS LA affiliate) tomorrow saying that
	the Raiders will be moving back to Oakland.  Time to re-name the
	note?

	Kevin

    
    
    		Yup
    
    
    			Heard it on the SPortsBAbe radio talk show,
    		Associated Press is calling it a DONE DEAL!
    
    
    							Shark
    
    
    
    

Since I doubt that the NFL wants to leave LA without a team, the
question then becomes:

	Who's moving to LA?

    the Browns?

     Two questions...

     How much did Oakland have to pay?

     And who will be the first owner to either use the massive LA market 
     as a bargaining chip or strong arm LA for massive concessions in 
     exchange for a move there?
    

  >>   And who will be the first owner to either use the massive LA market 
  >>   as a bargaining chip or strong arm LA for massive concessions in 
  >>   exchange for a move there?
    

	I'd say the Bengals and Patriots are prime canidates for strong arming
	their respective cities right now, the Bengals have been lording 
	Baltimore over Cincinnati's heads for a couple of months now, the 
	empty LA market will only help them to tell Cinci to put up or shut up.

	Gotta figure small markets like Green Bay and Tampa gotta be eyeing 
	the $$$ they could make in LA LA land.

	Turk

    
    
    :-)

    Wil McDonough has also mentioned Seattle as a possible candidate for
    LA. 

    
    I wouldn't be surprisd to see the Cards leave here.
    
    boC

    
>	Gotta figure small markets like Green Bay and Tampa gotta be eyeing 
>	the $$$ they could make in LA LA land.
    
    Well, Tampa, maybe...
    
    Unless Green Bay wants to sell its team, and I can't quite picture
    that...
    
    Joe

I believe the team is publicly owned, and I think a great many of the
shareholders are Green Bay folks.  Maybe it's overly idealistic, but I
can't see the Packers leaving Green Bay in the foreseeable future - they're
the closest thing to a public trust that I can think of in professional
sports.

Tommy Brydie is right - my first thought was Bob Kraft using this as a
bargaining chip, but there are probably 3 other teams that could do so as
well.

The Browns going to LA would be deja vu - if I remember correctly, the Rams
were in Cleveland before moving to LA.  I doubt very much that Art Modell
could claim a lack of fan support, though.

My #1 guess would be that the Bengals would go.  It seems like they're always
operating on a tight budget, and the fans there don't seem to turn out in
droves show particular devotion.

Having two cities looking for teams (LA, Baltimore), with one of them
guaranteed to get one, will make the next couple of months mighty interesting...

Roland

    
    No way the 9er's or Cowboys are movin to Arizona!!!!

    
    
      the Raiders now have the last two SuperBowl MVPS
    
    Larry Brown (cowboys)
    
    Desmond Howard (packers)
    

And you'd think they'd've (can you TM new contractions?) learned their 
lesson the last time they signed a SB MVP.  Uncle Al is getting dumber as 
the years go by.

brews