Conference hbahba::cam_sports

Olympic Track Champeens Jackie Joyner Kersee and Kevin Youny, along with
gymnast Vitaly Scherbo are finalists for the 1993 Jess Owens International
Trophy Award.

JD

    I thought Scherbo was from Russia?
    

Scherbo is from the CIS.

Young competed for USC or UCLA, I fergit.  

JD

Mike -

Actually, in the past, it was dominated by the Pac-10.  However, the
storied teams of USC and UCLA haven't been as strong, and teams from
Arkansas, LSU, etc., have actually been top programs.

The Pac-10 has a strong tradition in T&F - with Oregan being known
for distance running, WSU for bringing a strong african contingent
(including the great Henry Rono) in the past, and of course, the
storied USC/UCLA teams.  IN the 70's, the USC/UCLA dual meet was THE
track meet of the year in the USA.

JD

>Mike -

No confession.  Just fact.  Any T&F fan knows about those teams.  Why
teh USC 4x100M team, which had one Orenthal James Simpson and Don
Quarrie (future 200M olympic champ) held the collegiate record and
I believe world record (but not U.S., since Quarrie was Jamaican) for
a while.

Oregan, of course, gave us Steve Prefontaine, and for Mass. folks,
in later years featured Alberto Salazar.  

Stanford had some good weight men in the past.  Warm Weather schools
are at a distinct advantage in recruiting sprinters and jumpers.

JD

    OJ Simpson was on the team also.  Question is, "who was #4?"
    
    I remain,
    I dunno,
    Kev
    

    I thought teams like Tennessee and UTEP and Villanova were big track
    schools.  I'd say the PAC-10 might up there, but I don't know about
    a dominator or a leader...
    

    I always thought Orenthal James Simpson and OJ Simpson were the same
    person. Now I find out they were just teammates. Just goes ta show ya.
    
    Chris

Kev,

O.J. And Orenthal James Simpson are the same person...

Walt:

You are right.  For a long time, USC/UCLA were real powers.   
Villanova, thanks to the "Irish" connection, has always been
strong.  Ohio State also usually had a good team.  Tennessee,
LSU, and Arkansas have class programs.

JD

    Yabbut,
    The "Irish" at 'Nova had curfew, no? Keep 'em outta the pubs, right?
    
    
    
    MikeL
    

    ...and in the '80s, Arizona St. was pretty good in Track & Field as
    well.  Not too mention National Champions several times in wrestling
    (the real stuff, not WWF) and golf.

Off the track - Arizona State, and Wrestling Titles?  Seems to me its
always Iowa, Iowa State or Oklahoma State.  When did the Debils win the
Ncaa wrassling champeenship?  I'm interested.

Arizona State had Herm Frazier, great track man, with a funny haid.

JD

    
> Off the track - Arizona State, and Wrestling Titles?  Seems to me its
> always Iowa, Iowa State or Oklahoma State.  When did the Debils win the
> Ncaa wrassling champeenship?  I'm interested.
    
    Git with it, JD.  These weren't those bogus championships that are 
    decided on the mat.  Arizona St. has dominated in dastistickal
    wrassling champeenships.  You know, the kind of victories that 
    propelled the Sun Debils to an 11-0 record in football this year, 
    with big dastistickal wins over Nebraska and Washington, and that 
    allowed the Pac-10 to dastistickally dominate this year's bowl 
    games in general.  ;-)
    
    My record shows that Arizona St. has won one NCAA wrestling
    championship, in 1988.  Almost every single other one has been taken by
    the aforementioned three schools, plus Oklahoma.  The Pac-10 pretty
    boys don't know wrassling!  Wrassling is almost the exclusive property 
    of the big boys from the Midwest, the Big 8 and Big 10...
    
    glenn
    

    What are your sources Glenn?  I could've sworn they won at least 3 in
    the last 7 years.  I do know for a fact that they are ranked #1 right
    now.  They've have been ranked in the top 3 at least 5 of the last 7
    years along with Iowa St. and Oklahoma St.
    
    Mike

    
    > What are your sources Glenn?  I could've sworn they won at least 3 in
    > the last 7 years.  I do know for a fact that they are ranked #1 right
    > now.  They've have been ranked in the top 3 at least 5 of the last 7
    > years along with Iowa St. and Oklahoma St.
    
    Info Please Sports Almanac, through 1990.  Iowa won every year from
    1978-86, Iowa St. in 1987, Arizona St. in 1988.  Did Arizona St. win in
    the last couple years?
    
    glenn
    

Glenn,

I think Oklahoma State won two years ago (I remember Cowboy (?) putting
a note in *every* single topic about it - perhaps someone else
remembers).

I believe one of the Iowa's won it all lasted year.

JD

    OSU must have beat ASU for the title in '91

Back to track.

Some of you may remember the great Kenyan runner Kip Keino.  Well
his son Bob Keino attends high school in New Jersey, and this past
fall, he won the New Jersey state champeenship, as well as going
undefeated for the season.  After he won, someone complained to the
state, and the State Athletic Association stripped him of his title
and banned him from competition.  Their reason?   They claimed he
came to the states to attend high school for purely athletic
reasons, and not academic.

Keino's lawyers have filed an appeal.

Some background:

All of Kip Keino's children have come to the United States to get
degrees, I believe 3 of them have received  college degrees.  Bob is
the first to show any of the athletic prowess that his father had.
Keino's sponsers have claimed the charges are not true, since Keino
lives right near a Kenyan school famous for turning out olympian
caliber athletes (including his father Kip, Ben Jipcho, and other well
known Kenyan runners).   If he wanted to accel in only athletics, he
didn't have to leave Kenya.  He's a top notch student.

Also, Keino has gone through a growth spurt this year, which made him
a much improved runner.

Speculation is that some parents started the complaint (evidently mad
that some Kenyan was beating their little surburban spawn), and it 
spread from there.

IMO, since Keino is a student, his family has a legacy of sending the
kids over here to get educated, and he's the same age group as the 
kids he's beating, that he shouldn't be banned, and his title given back

In interviews with kids he competes with and against, they all decry
the ruling.

JD

    
    Geez, JD, isn't this where you're supposed to say that a rule's a rule, 
    that Keino's SOL (sniff), and that you suspect that book and movie
    rights are in the works?  Forget about intent, individual rights and 
    all that...
    
    glenn
    

Glenn -

There is, IMO, no (none, nada), similarity between Keino, a High School
Athlete, and some wizened wind bag out in Payola Moneymount (TM).

Keino has broken no rules or violated any sanction.  The NJAA has
simply decided that he went to High School in the U.S. for purely
athletic reasons, and not academic - although there is a wealth of
information contradicting that.   

What it does seem is that either some whiney parents or some jealous
coach has decided to go on a vendetta to punish this 'outsider'.

If Keino was older than the competitors, not a good student, and obviously
at the school to help it win (and I don't think the *school* won
the state champeenship, but Keino the *individual* title), then he
should be banned.

And Keino is not the only foreign student competing in athletics in
New Jersey - he just happens to be the only one who has *won* a
state title.   My guess is if he finished second, there would be
no sanctions.

JD

    
> There is, IMO, no (none, nada), similarity between Keino, a High School
> Athlete, and some wizened wind bag out in Payola Moneymount (TM).
    
    Obviously.  The two cases are distinctly separated by the presence of
    age and/or gender discrimination (both of which there are laws against,
    which the NCAA all too often seems to forget).  On top of that, it's
    obvious that a 44-year-old woman who has never competed professionally
    poses no threat to competition at the upper echelons of college track.  
    There are no mitigating circumstances, only the merit of the case
    against "a rule" (in Keino's case, same as exists within the NCAA, the 
    rule appears to be "whatever judgment we make about individual foreign 
    competitors, goes"-- sounds like ACChris' "hired gun" legislation).  
    Only you have chosen to assume that there are some bizarre ulterior 
    motives in one case, and purely the virtue of athletic competition 
    within an academic setting in the other.
    
    FWIW, I agree completely that Keino has been screwed.  Individual
    rights should count for more in this country than rules made by
    governing bodies which have absolutely no legal authority...
    
    glenn
    

    
    Seriously, I think the kid got the royal shaft, based on what JD's
    saying being true.  I wonder if Bob had a different name, say like
    "Hunt" and not one of the most famous names in T&F history if his title
    would have still been taken away.
    
    Humorously (after all, it IS Friday), I wish MrT was still around. 
    This is jucy enough to be the 1993 version of "Moochy Matt"!
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    wondering what his winning time was anyway?
    Kev
    

Glenn -

Glad we agree on Keino.   The woman is 48 FWIW, not 44 (isfh).

JD

The thing that bothers me is that there seems to be a trend of late
towards strict interpretations in "rules", regardless of the context
of the case.

Each case is different.  If rules are to be applied strictly in all
cases, without consideration of mitigating circumstances, then we would
not need a legal system, merely an enforcement arm.

That Keino would be stripped of his champeenship is heinous.  That some
parents would be petty enough to raise this issue is even sadder.


Jeez, sometimes I think society is getting worse instead of better....


'Saw

The New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association's decision
to strip 1992 state high school cross-country champeen Bob
Keino will stand, but the state will allow Keino, a junior, to
compete in outdoor track, starting April 1.   They upheld the
title stripping on the basis of not following 'rules for transfers'.

Keino's coach said Keino is "A lot bigger than the awards he's
won."   They will not appeal the decision.

IMO, I still think it sucks, but he's a junior, and hopefully he'll
destroy the comp next year and win the title again.   And I
hope he kicks butt doing it.

JD

Sounds like the people who made the decision were trying to 
make everyone happy.  

Craven Panderers, every one.....


'Saw

Saw -

IN his heart, and in the heart of his competitors, they will know
he was the state champeen.  He may not have the award, but he has
the finish.  

And, as I said, he's a junior, and he'll get his chance to win
again (unless the NJIAA comes up with a new rule nexted year).

I'm also glad that he and his guardian and coach have decided to
not make a legal case out of this.  I love that quote, basically
saying that Keino is about more than awards.

Oh, there's a lesson to be learned in this lawsuit happy world.  

JD

    Yabbut
    
    It certainly will be interesting to see how the "record books"
    reflect the race.  Do you think they'll just erase Keno's name from the
    book and put the #2 guy in as if he was actually the first to cross the
    line?  Will they then give #3 the #2 spot (and medal) and so on and
    so on or will there be a_asterick added?
    
    JD, 
    re: " ...may not have the award, but he has the finish."
    Most excellently written.  Although it's been 20+ years since school, I
    can still vividly remember "the finish" of many of my races.  It's the 
    memories of what happened that give me pleasure, the medals are truely
    secondary to the memories.
    
    I remain,
    tellin ya I saw Addidas Gazelles in "Foot Locker" store a week ago!!!!!
    Kev
    

Kev

Addidas Gazelles?  Yer kiddin?   Are they the old ones, or do
they have that torsion bar thingie?

JD

JD,

AS Kev said, well put.  And it sounds to me like Keino has such potential
to reach great heights that this little incident may be nothing more
than a footnote on the final scroll.

What burned me was the way that the powers that be tried to make everyone
happy.  I mean, it's kind of sad in a way.  They didn't want to offend
the other (nitpicky) parents who complained, and they didn't want to
offend Keino, so they went middle of the road.

I also agree on the suit thing.  Keino's future accomplishments will say
more than any lawsuit....


'Saw

    
    Addidas Gazelles:
    
    The actual real mcCoy!  Brushed blue suede uppers, genuine rubbed gum
    rubber soles, not real padding (compared to today's shoes anyway)!
    
    They brought out a oldie but a goodie!
    
    Of course I'm hoping they bring back the "Olympia" - white leather
    upper, black stripes, gummed sole, circa '67-'68.
    I still have a pair (which I wear) but they're getting a bit ratty!
    
    I remain,
    remembering it was at the Auburn Mall but
    not remembering if they wanted ~$40 or $60 for them.
    Kev
    

    
    He must be working so I'll don my official "Jimmy Olsen Bow Tie"
    for a few.....
    
    
    Ethiopian Addis Abebe broke the World Record for the 10,000 meters
    (that's the 10K to track buffs:^), with a time of 27 minutes 40 seconds
    (27:40).  The old record was 27 minutes 41 seconds (27:41) and was set
    in 1986.
    
    In other news, Australian Steve Moneghetti won the Tokyo City
    Half-Marathon for the second consecutive year, covering the 13.08 mile
    course in a course record 1 hour 6 seconds (1:00:06).  In the "I
    couldda been a contendeh Department", 'Merican Todd Williams came in
    second with a time of 1 hour 11 seconds (1:00:11).  [for those poor in
    math, that's 5 seconds behind the winnah).
    
    Did I mention that Addis Abebe won $500,000 (half a million bucks) for
    setting the World record?  Oh, I didn't?  OK, "Addis Abebe won a half
    million bucks for setting the world record in the 10 thousand meters".
    
    Moving along......
    
    Ana Quirot, Cuba's star middle-distance runner was reported in critical
    but stable condition from extensive burns sufered in what was reported
    to be a houshold accident.
    
    
    
    I remain,
    yer occasional cub-reporter!
    Kev
    

    
    Well, it's February and it's almost zero degrees outside (or at least
    for lasted week) so naturally, you know that it's indoor track time!
    
    I think it was Friday night when the <mumblefratz sponsor> Millrose
    games were held at Madison Square Garden.  Courtesy of that revered
    newspaper, the Woostah Telegram, we can happily give you a report of
    the report that appeared in the Telegram.
    
    Greg Foster, one of the all-time great hurdlers, competed in his last
    Millrose game as he will retire from T&F at the end of the year. 
    Foster, 34 years old, won the indoor hurdles for his 9th win!
    
    
    That's it folks, don't look for more.......
    
    I remain,
    suprised they spared that much space!
    Kev
    

    > Well, it's February and it's almost zero degrees outside (or at least
    > for lasted week) so naturally, you know that it's indoor track time!
    
    Typical NorthEastCorridorChestPuffery.  Assume everybody on the easynet
    is someplace where it's zero degrees (i.e. New England).
    
    Bah.  It was 70 degrees in Atlanta on Saturday; gonna be 60 and sunny
    today.  So thare!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Crispie,
    
    I took my son skiing yesterday & we had a most memorable time.  He
    cain't wait to do it again!
    
    So what did YOU do with yer loinal fruit?  Cain you take them skiing?
    
    

    Oops, sorry Mr.Moderator.  Obviously I got my Geographic Correctness
    backwards.  It's GeographicallyCorrect to be from NewEngland;
    GeorgraphicallyIncorrect to be elsewhere.
    
    Humbly asking forgiveness ....
    
    
    - ACC Chris

     re .39
    
     What's that have to do with track and field ?

>              -< Switch in Administrations has me all confused  >-
>
>    Oops, sorry Mr.Moderator.  Obviously I got my Geographic Correctness
>    backwards.  It's GeographicallyCorrect to be from NewEngland;
>    GeorgraphicallyIncorrect to be elsewhere.
>    
>    Humbly asking forgiveness ....
    


What's this got to do with anything?

People tend to talk in terms of where they are.  When I'm in a notesfile
based in England, it's not unusual to hear something like "Well, since
its 8 degrees and foggy".

It's not unusual in here to hear Mike Heiser or Brews talk about how
hot and dry it is.....


So what's the big deal?


'Saw

>
>    Oops, sorry Mr.Moderator.  Obviously I got my Geographic Correctness
>    backwards.  It's GeographicallyCorrect to be from NewEngland;
>    GeorgraphicallyIncorrect to be elsewhere.
>    
>    Humbly asking forgiveness ....
    

And I forgot to say, remember this piece of wisdom:

	
	Wherever you go, there you are.

    Laugh while you can, Monkey boy....

Milrose Games Results (***NOTE*** Apologies to Mr. Sensitivity, ACCrook,
because the Milrose Games were held indoors, in New York.  I realize
this discriminates against Po, Po Accrock, but let him know that
yesterday there was a major indoor track meet in Farifax, Va...)


60 Meters:  Michael Green, Clemson 6.79
400:   Butch Reynolds  47.16
500:   Andrew Valmon   1:03:34
600 yards:  Mark Everett  1:08.89
800 Meters:  Freddie Williams, Canada 1:50.31
3000:   Joe Falcoln  7:55.94
Mile:   Noreddine Morcelli, Algeria 3:55.06
Masters Mile:  Eamonn Coghlan, Ireland 4:05.95
Mile Walk:  Allen James 5:50.44
60 Hurdles:  Greg Foster, 7.81
Pole Vault:  Bill Dearing, U of Miami  18'1/2"
High Jump:  Tony Barton, 7' 4.5"
Shot Put:  C.J. Hunter  63' 11.75"
35 pound weight throw:  Lance Deal, 81' 5.25"  - world record

JD

>Masters Mile:  Eamonn Coghlan, Ireland 4:05.95


Eammon Coghlan continues in his pursuit to become the first man
over 40 to run a sub-4 mile.

He's been bothered by a hamstring injury.  I'm wondering if he wasn't
slightly injured if he could have done it last Friday night.....


'Saw

    JOHNSON FACES LIFETIME BAN:
       The sprinting career of Canada's Ben Johnson is in jeopardy 
    with another possible drug violation. The doping committee of the 
    international track federation (IAAF) will review Friday in Paris 
    a Johnson test result from January. According to foreign reports, 
    Johnson has a testosterone:epitosterone ratio of slightly more 
    than 10:1. If found guilty, his second violation means a lifetime 
    ban.

    re: .12 
    
    Having checked in for a while. The star of those great USC relay teams
    was Lennox Miller who was second to Jim Hines in Mexico City and may
    have also medaled at Tokyo. I believe he was from Trinidad.
    
    HTH

Article: 10186
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.sports.top
Subject: Money brings athletes together
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 16:15:27 PST
 
	TORONTO (UPI) -- Athletes and their agents were to meet Thursday night
to press demands for prize money at events like the World Indoor Track
and Field Championships, which begin Friday.
	A number of marquee athletes are not competing at the event, citing
injury and other reasons, but it's felt at least some are boycotting the
event because appearance money is available at other events in Europe.
	``This is our livelihood, this is what we do,'' said U.S. decathlete
Dan O'Brien, who will compete in Toronto in the seven-event heptathlon.
``We're definitely not getting our fair share of the money.''
	U.S. long jumper and sprinter Carl Lewis, U.S. heptathlete Jackie
Joyner-Kersee, Ukrainian pole vaulter Sergie Bubka, British sprinter
Lynford Christie all opted to bypass the Toronto event.
	Tom Jennings, executive secretary of the International Association of
Athletes' Representatives, said he and other agents will meet Thursday
night to discuss money and other matters.
	``We believe the athletes should be paid by the IAAF and not by their
individual associations. After all, there is a big pile of wealth that
must be shared,'' Jennings said.
	Jennings said his association wouldn't call for a boycott of the
world outdoor championships being held in Stuttgart, Germany this
August, but they would attempt to educate athletes about money.
	Those who support the awarding of prize money point to the four-year,
$91 million television contract between the IAAF and the European
Broadcast Union.
	Only two national federations, the United States and Italy, have
publicly said they will pay athletes who win in Toronto.
	The U.S. federation reportedly said it would give $5,000 to gold
medalists, $1,500 to silver medalists and $500 to bronze winners.
	The Italians reportedly will receive $50,000 for a gold medal.
	Jennings and other agents want athletes to receive $100,000 for
winning a gold medal at an outdoor event, down to $5,000 for eigth-place
finishers.
	Some reports indicate that winning athletes in Stuttgart will receive
cash ``gifts'' of up to $40,000.
	IAAF President Primo Nebiolo told a Thursday press conference that
prizes will not be awarded at world class events, and that there are no
sponsors to supply cash ``gifts.''
    

Article: 10211
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc
Subject: O'Brien stars at Track and Field Championships
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 21:51:01 PST
 
	TORONTO (UPI) -- Dan O'Brien, the decathlete who missed the U.S.
Olympic team but struck it rich with a series of shoe commercials, may
have the last laugh at the World Indoor Track and Field Championships,
as he remains on a torrid pace to smash the indoor points record in the
hepthalon -- the indoor counterpart to the outdoor decathlon.
	O'Brien, a native of Portland, Ore., has a total of 3,800 points
after four of the seven events. France's Christian Plaziat's 1992 total
of 6,418 points at the Europena Indoor Championships is the record
O'Brien is shooting for in the final three events Sunday at the Skydome.
	In the men's 1500 meters, three-time world indoor champion Marcus
O'Sullivan of Ireland added a fourth indoor crown with a solid 3.45.00
gold-medal effort. David Strang of Great Britian made it close with a
3:45:30 silver-medal run, edging Croatia's Branko Zorko (3:45:39), who
earned a bronze.
	In other action, the women's 3,000 meters was won by Yvonne Murray of
Great Britain, who raced to an early one-lap lead and easily
outdistanced the field en route to the gold-medal time of 8:50:56, the
fastest indoor time run this year.
	The margin of victory was nearly 13 seconds over the second-place
finisher, Margareta Keszeg of Romania, who clocked a 9:02:89. American
Lynn Jennings, the 33-year-old Princeton graduate who won the 10,000
meter bronze medal at the 1992 Summer Olympics in Barcelona, gave Keszeg
a run for the silver, but ended up third at 9:03:78.
	Murray led at the bell in the 1992 Summer Games, but ended up eighth,
so the Toronto victory provided a bit of consolation for the 28-year-old
Musselburgh, Scotland native.
	``I did my homework on the opposition,'' Murray said. ``The victory
is for both Great Britain and my family.''
	Jennings said she ``wasn't thrilled with her race,'' and that ``it
was a bit perplexing when Yvonne flew away from us.''
	In women's high-jump action, Stefka Kostadinova of Bulgaria and Heike
Henkel of Germany both cleared 2.02 meters, but the tie-breaker gave the
edge to Kostadinova, who cleared her first jump at two meters, while
Henkel missed on her first attempt but cleared the second time. Both
jumpers missed the 2.04 meter height. Inga Babakova from the Ukraine
finished third with a leap of two meters.
	In the men's 4x400 relay, American star Butch Reyolds elected not to
run, but the final result was still a U.S. victory (3:04:20). The
Americans led from the sounding of the gun, led by Detroit-native
Darnell Hall, second leg by Brian Irvin, third leg by Jason Rouser and
anchored by Mark Everett. Trinidad and Tobago took second (3:07:02) and
Japan, third with a 3:07:30 mark.
	In the women's equivalent 4x400 relay, the Russian entry ran away
with the gold with a time of 3:28:90, while Jamaica nipped the silver
(3:32.32) over a determined American squad (3:32:50), who took the
bronze.
	In the triple jump, France's Pierre Camara hopped, skipped and jumped
to a distance of 17.59 meters for the gold, edging Maris Bruziks of
Latvia (17.36) and Nikolay Raev of Bulgaria (17.27).
	In the women's 3,000-meter walk, Russia's Elena Nikolaeva breezed to
victory with a 11:49.73 mark, while Kerry Junna-Saxby of Australia and
Ileana Salavador of Italy finished second and third with times of 11:53.
82 and 11:55.35, respectively.
	In the pole vault, Rodion Gataullin of Russia took advantage of
Ukrainian legend Sergei Bubka's abscence by vaulting to a gold-medal
height of 5.90 meters. Grigory Yegorov, representing the former Soviet
republic of Kazakhstan, came in second, clearing 5.80 meters, as did
third place finisher Jean Galfione of France.
	In the long jump, Ivan Pedroso of Cuba took the gold with a leap of
8.23 meters, followed closely by American Joesph Greene, who won the
silver with a jump of 8.13 meters. The bronze went to Daniel Ivanov of
Bulgaria with a mark of 7.98.
    

Article: 10218
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.sports.top
Subject: Reynolds runs to gold, away from trouble
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 93 16:14:17 PST
 
	TORONTO (UPI) -- Butch Reynolds ran away with the gold medal in the
400 meters final Sunday at the World Indoor Track and Field
Championships, then ran away from any controversy.
	Reynolds, competing in his first international meet in three years
since testing positive for a banned substance, was at his diplomatic
best after the race.
	The U.S. sprinter's battles with Primo Nebiolo, President of the
International Amateur Athletic Federation, were for the moment forgotten
as Reynolds toned down his anti-IAAF remarks considerably.
	``I'm starting by saying that I'm back, and I'm too legit to quit,''
Reynolds said. ``The vindication has been very important from day one. I
did the legal work I had to do, and the work I had to do on the track,
that was the hard part.''
	Reynolds and the IAAF have waged a bitter battle in and out of court.
Reynolds challenged his positive drug test and subsequent ban in court.
He actually won a judgment of $27.5 million from the IAAF, which laughed
off the verdict.
	Reynolds, openly bitter towards the IAAF before the meet started,
afterwards sounded like he was ready to compromise.
	``I'm trying to solve this matter in the most diplomatic way I can,''
Reynolds said. ``I think the IAAF and myself want what's best for the
sport. Putting the conclusion of this Butch Reynolds saga (behind us) is
important to track and field.''
	An IAAF official huddled with the American runner for five minutes
before he entered the press area for his post-race news conference. But
Reynolds was quick to brush off suggestions that he was under a gag
order.
	``I can say what I want to say, this is my choice,'' he said. ``We
all know the problems that track faces. (Now) it's time for solutions.''
	Accompanied by one of his lawyers, Reynolds even chuckled when asked
if he was disappointed Nebiolo didn't present him with his gold medal.
	``I'm just happy the IAAF official was there,'' Reynolds said. ``That
was an honor to me right there.''
	Reynolds was also happy with his race time of 45.26 seconds, a
championship record and just .24 seconds off the world mark.
	``It was a good race for me, Reynolds said. ''Sunday (Bada) got off
to a strong start but I was able to catch him. Now I have to get ready
for the outdoor meets...there's another group of very fast runners
there.``
	Reynolds and Nebiolo have battled over the last two-and-a-half years
over Reynolds' positive drug test. Reynolds has staunchly denied his
guilt during the ongoing controversy surrounding his IAAF-imposed two-
year doping suspension.
	In 1990, two years after his silver medal win in the 400-meters
during the Summer Olympics in Seoul, Reynolds tested positive for the
anabolic steroid nandrolene during a Grand Prix meet in Monte Carlo. But
Reynolds maintained his innocence, and another test one week later was
negative.
	Nandrolene, an oil-based steroid, was most often used by athletes
because it remains in one's system for approximately one year. Reynolds
claimed that it was impossible for him to have injected the drug and to
be clean one week later, as the drug remains traceable for an extended
period of time.
	The IAAF rejected Reynolds's appeal, stating there is a water-based
nandrolene, though it is largely disputed that such a steroid exists.
Reynolds challenged the governing body's doping policy, maintaining to
this day it is flawed. Reynolds also lambasted the IAAF's urine sample
security and the accountablity for the sample once it leaves the
athletic venue.
	Reynolds persisted in court and sought damages in the amount of $4.5
million, and compensatory damages in the amount of $4.5 million. Judge
Joseph Kinneary, citing the vindictiveness of the additional suspension,
tripled Reynolds' reward to $27.5 million.
	But Nebiolo scoffed at the award, and refused to pay on the basis the
London and Rome-based IAAF, an international governing body, is not
subject to U.S. Supreme Court jurisdiction. But the battle rages on.
	Nebiolo gave Reynolds a Feb. 23 deadline to retract all lawsuits and
offer a public apology. Reynolds did not comply and Nebiolo refused last
week to discuss anything specific about Reynolds.
	``I don't want to make any comments on the Reynold's case,'' Nebiolo
said during the pre-meet press conference in Toronto. ``Let him compete
in tranquility and serenity.''
	Reynolds apparently went out and did just that.
    

Lynn Jennings, IMO the single most dominant runner in the world over the past
three years, failed in her bid to win her fourth straight World Cross Country
Championship.

In the race held in Spain, Jennings came from deep in the pack to finnish third
to {mumble-mumble} from Spain, and {mumble-mumble} from Ireland.  According to
quotes from her coach, John Babington, Jennings never felt or looked
compfortable, and pulled out third on guts and determination.

I was fortunate enough to have seen Lynn win her third straight lasted year, 
and I assure you she is no ordinary athlete.  She has that killer competitive
attitude unmatched by the "big sport" athletes of today.  I'm sure she'll be
back on top next year.

=Bob=

    Will people interested in High School track please go to 16.74
    

    
    Yabbut for those of us who are deening to wonk(tm), howabout those
    who are doing the Hopkinton->Boston thingie nexted Monday let us know
    that they're doing it and some (DEEP VOICE) "UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL"
    stuff like anticipated time, official entry or "just fer fun", etc.
    
    BobM, don't bother, we don't like you anyway!
    
    I remain,
    knowing Bill Rodgers resigned/retired from marathon running yesterday!
    Kev
    

    
    Oh yeah,
    
    Thisted years race has only 9,000 legal entries, down from 9,600 lasted
    year.
    
    I remain,
    datistically OK with numbers!
    Kev
    

My buddy Chris is running....

I think his time will be between 2:45 and 3:00, so we should be able to
see him after da game......


'Saw

    I know Bobby McCullough tol' me he'd be around 2:30 to 2:40.
    That was before Needle axed him to run slower so's we could watch the
    whole ballgame!
    
    MikeL
    

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc
Subject: Canadian track star in critical condition
Keywords: track & field, women's professional
Message-ID: <richardson-briscoeU3y56pe@clarinet.com>
Date: Wed, 5 May 93 15:10:57 PDT
ACategory: sports
Slugword: richardson-briscoe
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 296/294; Id: z5757; Sel: xxswo; Adate: 5-5-6ped
Approved: clarinews@clarinet.com
Codes: ysworxx., tnrb...., txia....
Lines: 30
 
	CALGARY, Alberta (UPI) -- Canadian track star Jillian Richardson-
Briscoe remained in critical condition Wednesday with head and internal
injuries sustained in a one-vehicle accident the day before.
	Police said Richardson-Briscoe, who was not wearing a seat belt,
sustained the injuries when she was thrown out of the pick-up she was
riding in as a passenger after it left the road and tumbled down an
embankment. She is bleeding in and around her brain and has a lacerated
spleen.
	Her husband, William Briscoe, 27, was driving the vehicle but
sustained only minor cuts. He was wearing a seatbelt at the time.
	Police said Richardson-Briscoe was not wearing her seatbelt when the
couple's Isuzu pick-up went out of control on an off ramp, tumbled down
an embankment and landed on its roof.
	Calgary police Staff Sgt. Rod Jarvis said weather conditions were
sunny and clear with good visibility.
	Richardson-Briscoe finished fifth in the 400-meters last year at the
Summer Olympics in Barcelona, Spain. She also ran for the 4x400 women's
relay team.
	Richardson-Briscoe reportedly had just returned from a meet in
Kingston, Jamaica, where she placed third in the 400-meters with a time
of 51:20, her fastest time for a first race of the season.
	She was planning to compete in the world outdoor championships this
August in Germany.
	She has been one of Canada's top track and field athletes, competing
in three Olympics and two world championships.
	She took 1991 off to have a baby, and spent 1992 in heavy training to
regain her form.
	Richardson-Briscoe was asked to leave the 1990 Commonwealth Games
because she wouldn't stay in the same quarters as most of the other
athletes.

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.sports.top
Subject: Drummond edges Lewis in 100 at NY Games
Keywords: track & field, men's professional
Message-ID: <nygamesU3yM620pe@clarinet.com>
Date: Sat, 22 May 93 15:21:00 PDT
ACategory: sports
Slugword: nygames
Priority: major
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 956/1083; Id: z4382; Sel: xxswp; Adate: 5-22-620ped; V: sked
Approved: clarinews@clarinet.com
Codes: yswprxx., &swprxx., tnrb...., txia....
Lines: 94
 
	NEW YORK (UPI) -- Jon Drummond surprised two-time Olympic champion and
world record holder Carl Lewis in the 100 meters and Mozambique's Maria
Mutola ran the fastest women's 800 meters in the United States Saturday,
highlighting the fifth annual Reebok New York Games at Columbia
University's Wien Stadium.
	Drummond, 24, turned in a time of 10.16 with Lewis finishing third in
10.20, the same clocking as his Santa Monica Track Club teammate, Mike
Marsh.
	Mutola, 20, fought off a stretch challenge by her 18-year-old cousin,
Tina Paulino, to set a New York Games record and a personal-best mark of
1:56.56. It was the first time the cousins ever have run against each
other.
	In other notable men's events, Mark Crear bested a strong field in
the 110-meter high hurdles in 13.31, Quincy Watts overcame bad room
service and a worse taxi ride to capture the 400 in 45.02, Kevin Young
took the 400-meter hurdles in 48.71 and Algeria's Reda Abdenouz covered
the 800 in 1:47.34.
	Sandra Farmer-Patrick hit the tape in 54.69 to lead a women's 400-
meter hurdles field that included Jackie Joyner-Kersee while, in field
events, Russia's Denis Petruschinsky won the pole vault at a height of
18-feet, 11-inches and Mike Conley jumpoed 26-feet 2 1/4 inches to
capture the long jump.
	Drummond, who beat Lewis in in 1987, said his victory was not an
upset.
	``It's too early in the year for that,'' Drummond said. ``You know
what would be an upset? When I go to the USA Track and Field
championships, win the 100, go to the World championships and win that
100, then you call it an upset.''
	Drummond ran a near-perfect technical race, especially with his
strong start out of the block, giving him enough to hold off an on-
coming Lewis at the wire.
	``You know Carl is going to come. That's his forte,'' Drummond said.
``But I wasn't looking for him for a change. I didn't see him coming. In
fact, I always close my eyes at the finish line.''
	The animated Drummond, who yells and hops around before he gets into
the blocks, was asked if fellow competitors think he's a hot dog?
	``No, they think I'm crazy,'' he said. ``My strategy is to stay away
from everybody unitl the gun sounds. And when the gun is up, take off
and try to win the race.''
	Lewis, whose world mark of 9.86 seconds was set in Tokyo in 1991 and
who had won all four previous 100-meter races in the Games, came out of
the blocks poorly and was still running next to last in the seven-man
field midway through the race. He challenged only in the final 15
meters.
	Despite the loss, he was pleased with his race, especially since it
was only the second time he's competed since hurting his back in a
February auto accident when another driver ran a stop sign.
	``It was a typical thing that happens early in the season,'' said
Lewis, who will not compete in the long jump this year because of the
back problem. ``I've only run one 200 and one 100 this year, but the
main thing you look for is to run well. I didn't start well at all, but
I felt that I ran well and just as fast as I've ever been. By the
National Championship, I expect to be ready to roll.
	``I think Drummond's victory is great,'' Lewis added, ``because we've
had a drought of young sprinters coming up and America needs that.''
	Mutola, who first made a name for herself in the New York Games two
years ago and who finished fifth in the 1992 Olympics, ran comfortably
ahead through through 600 meters before her cousin made her move. Mutola
turned her head, then strayed out of her lane nearing the tape, forcing
Paulino wide, enough to stave off the challenge.
	``I didn't know it was my cousin until I looked back in the last 20
meters,'' Mutola said. ``I knew somebody was there, but I thought it was
Joetta Clark. She surprised me.''
	Clark, whose father Joe Clark gained national fame as the bat-
weilding Newark school principal, finished third in 1:58.17, the best
ever in the USA.
	There were four false starts in the first heat of the men's 110-meter
high hurdles, each committed by a Who's-Who of world-class hurdling --
Crear, Greg Foster, Tony Dees and Roger Kingdom.
	When they finally got a legal start, Crear ran his personal best to
edge three-time world champion Foster (13.50) while Courtney Hawkins was
third. Two-time Olympic champion Kingdom finished fourth and Dees, a
silver medalist last summer in Barcelona was fifth.
	``I don't feel this was an upset,'' Crear said. ``I think the media
and some other people only know the big names, but I think if you ask
the other hurdlers, they respect me and they know I'm up and coming.''
	``The knee is back,'' said Kingdom, who had a knee operation one year
ago. ``I just have to get back my mental toughness.''
	Watts was laid out after his 400-meter triumph, ice packs applied to
the back of his neck and under his arms after collapsing soon after
hitting the tape. He apparently had to wolf down breakfast after room
service was late with his order and then he and Young got lost on a New
York cab ride after getting out at Columbia University instead of the
school's stadium further uptown.
	``It was a difficult race for me,'' he said. ``I didn't get the time
I needed to prepare because of the cab ride. But I know I have some
adjustments to make. This is a meet you use for the national
championships.''
	Young said the cab ride made him a little nervous and forced him to
do change his pre-race ritual.
	``I talked to my coach, John Smith, this morning and ended up doing
exactly the opposite of what he said,'' Young explained. ``He wanted me
to do a long warm-up, take a break and then short warmups. This was my
shortest warm-up and the fastest time for warm-up.''

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc
Subject: German champion wins South African marathon
Keywords: track & field
Message-ID: <marathon-safricaU3yV11ae@clarinet.com>
Date: Mon, 31 May 93 8:02:25 PDT
ACategory: sports
Slugword: marathon-safrica
Priority: daily
Format: daily
ANPA: Wc: 250/261; Id: z2601; Sel: xxsw.; Adate: 5-31-11aed
Approved: clarinews@clarinet.com
Codes: ysw.dxx., tnrb...., txia....
Lines: 25
 
	JOHANNESBURG (UPI) -- German marathon champion Charly Doll won the
South African Comrades Marathon over 56 miles Monday in a time of 5
hours 39 minutes and 41 seconds.
	The 39-year-old German 62-mile champion survived painful thigh and
calf muscles on the jarring downhill run in South Africa's Natal
province to cross the finish line 2 minutes 38 seconds ahead of local
runner Theophilus Rafiri.
	Speaking through an interpreter, Doll, who saw the course for the
first time Thursday, said the marathon was the ``greatest run I had ever
run.''
	The German is ranked seventh in the world for 62 miles on the all-
time list with a time of 6:29:34 achieved in 1990. He also holds the
world skiing ultra-distance record of 137 miles in 12 hours.
	Doll, the first foreign runner to win the Comrades in 21 years, said
he hadn't been confident of success in the race which drops from
Pietermaritzburg in the Natal midlands, more than 2,300 feet above sea
level, to the Indian Ocean city of Durban.
	``I never expected to win the race, especially as downhill running is
one of my weaker points,'' Doll said, ``At a stage when running down (a
steep section of the route) with 12 miles to go I experienced muscle
pains and was overtaken.
	``When the course became even I managed to overcome those problems
and regained the lead.''
	More than 13,000 runners started the race, regarded as the most
prestigious in South Africa.

    TNT's 'U.S. Olmypic Gold' will feature a two-hour special this Saturday
    June 19th of the USA/Mobil Championships in Eugene, Ore.
    
    Other TNT televised track meets will be the Indy Games on June 26th and
    a meet in Stockholm on July 10th.
    
    TS:

USA Championships Results:

Eugene, Oregon  

(Top 3 with qualifying standards make the World Champeenships in
Stuttgard, Germany, August 14-22)

100M  (Wind Aided) Andre Cason  9.85; Dennis Mitchell 9.85; Carl
Lewis 9.90

200M (Wind Aided)  Mike Marsh 19.90; Carl Lewis 20.07; Jason Hendrix 20.17

400M  Michael Johnson 43.74; Butch Reynolds 44.12; Quicny Watts 44.24

800M  Mark Everett 1:44.43; Johnny Gray 1:44.67; Jose Parilla 1:45.12

1500M Bill Burke 3:42.74; Mark Dailey 3:42.92; Jim Spivey 3:42.92

3000M Steeplechase  Marc Davis 8:20.93; Marc Croghan 8:21.37
Brian Diemer 8:21.41

5000M  Matt Gjusto 13:23.60; Bob Kennedy 13:25.51; Ken Martin 13:44.68

10000M  Todd WIlliams 28:02.05; Steve Plasencia 28:02.41; Dan Nelson 
28:02.44

110Hurdles  Jack Pierce 13.19; Tony Dees 13.21; Mark Crear 13.33

400Hurdles  Kevin Young 47.69; Derrick Young 48.69; David Patrick 48.95

20KM Walk  Allen James 1:29.09; Jonathan Matthews 1:30.45; Douglas
Fournier 1:31.25

HJ:  Hollis Conway 7'7"; Tony Barton and Rick NOji 7' 4.5"

PV:  Scott Huffman 18'8.25"; Dean Starkey 18'8.25"; Mike Holloway 18'6.5"

LJ (wind aided)  Mike Powell 28'0"; Erick Walder 27'9.25"; Joe Greene 27'4"

TJ: MIchael Conley 58'.5" (wind aided); Kenny Harrison 56'8"; Reggie
Jones 55' 11"

SP:  Randy Barnes 69'9.75"; Michael Stulce 69'4.25; Kevin Toth 66'7.25"

Discus  Anthony Washington 207'6"; Micke Buncic 202'6"; Michael
Gravelle 200'6"

Hammer  Lance Deal 256'3"; Jim Driscoll 235'4"; Kevein MCMahon 225'11"

Javelin  Tom Pukstys 272'6"; Art SKipper 251'4"; Edward Kaminski 239'11"

Decathalon  Dan O'Brien 8,831 points; Steve Fritz 8,176; Rob Muzzio 8,057

WOMAN:

100M  (wind aided) Gail Dever 10.82; Gwen Torrence 11.03; Michelle Finn 
11.07

200M (wind aided) Gwen Torrence 22.57; Dannette Young 22.68; Michelle
Finn 22.81

400M Jearl Miles 50.43; Natasha Kaiser-Brown 50.93; Michele Collins 51.77

800M  Joetta Clark 2:01.47; AMy Wickus 2:02.22; Julie Jenkins-Donley
2:02.23

1500M  Annette peters 4:11.53; Alisa Hill 4:12.43; Gina Procacio 4:12.51

3000M  ANnette Peters 8:48.59; Shelly Steely 8:52.99; Sheila Carrozza
8:55.03

10000M Lynn Jennings 31:57.83; Anne Marie Letko 32:00.99; ELAINE VAN
Blunk 32:07.19

110Hurdle (wind aided) Lynda Tolbert 12.72; Gail Devers 12.73; Dawn
Bowles 12.89

400 Hurdles  Sandra patrick-farmer 53.96; Kimberly Batten 54.57; 
Tonja Burford 54.63

10KM Walk Debbi Lawrence 45:55; Teresa Vail 46:04; Sara Standley 48:16

HJ  Tanya Hughes 6'2.75"; COnnie Teaberry 6'2.25"; Sue Rembao 6'2.25"

LJ Jackie Joyner-Kersee 23'.5"; Sheila Echols 21'10" (wind aided); 
Sharon Couch 21'6.75" (wind aided)

TJ  Claudia Haywood 45'5.75" (wind aided); Sheila Hudson 44'9.75";
Cynthea Rhodes 44'2.75"

SP  Connie Price-SMith 62'5"; Ramona Pagel 58' 1.75"; Stevanie
Wadsworth 56'3"

Discus Connie Price Smith 208'5"; Krisin Kuehl 197'4"; Carla Garrett
193' 4"

Javelin   Donna Mayhew 206'7"; Heather Berlin 182'8"; Erica Wheeler 181'1"

Heptathlon  Jackie Joyner-Kersee 6,770 Points; Kym Carter 6,038; DeDe
Nathan 6,038

JD

    Lewis is not participating in the Long Jump this year due a back injury he
    sustained in a car accident.

    Carl Lewis has decided not to participate as a member of the 400-meter
    relay team at the World Championships in Stuttgart, Germany in August.
    He has decided to concentrate on the 100 and 200 meter events.
    
    His withdrawal elevates teammate and friend, Leroy Burrell into the top
    four, joining Andre Cason, Dennis Mitchell, and Jon Drummond.
    
    Jackie Joyner-Kersee and shot put world record-holder Randy Barnes will
    head the U.S. team for a dual track meet against Britain July 2nd at 
    Edinburgh, Scotland.  Joyner-Kersee will compete in only the 400-meter
    relay at the meet.  The team also includes seven other national
    champions, four NCAA winners, one Olympic gold medalist, one former
    world record-holder, and one American record-holder.
    
    Tom Pertranoff, the former world record-holder in thejavelin, won the
    first gold medal at the African track and field championships. 
    Pertranoff a former US resident now living in South Africa, hurled the
    javelin 240' 4" on his first throw.  In the other final, Christy Opara
    of Nigeria won the women's long jump at 21' 6 3/4".
    

    Richard Chelimo of Kenya broke the world record last night in the
    10,000. His time of 27:07 averages to 4:22 a mile. And he's only 20
    years old. WOW!! His next goal is to break 27.

Beat me to it Dave!  He actually averaged 4:21.98 per mile ;-)

JD

    	what was the old 10K record?
    
    	scott

27:08.23 by Arturio Barrios in 1989 

    The 27 minute barrier was pierced over the weekend but it wasn't
    Richard Chelimo. Another Kenyan,Yobes Ondieki(Lisa Martin's husband)
    ran an incredible 26:58.41 at Bislet. That's a shade over 4:20 a mile!
    
    How many of us can do one 65 second quarter? Alright that eliminates
    most of us. He ran 25 in a row!
    
    How many humans can run a 4:20 mile? He did 6 of them!
    
    His first 5K was 13:28! He "slowed" down  to 13:30. for the last 5K.
    If I had run by PR of 39:09,I would have been lapped almost 8 times!

    
    Yabbut Dave, ya gotta remember that he's what 20 years old?  Hail, when
    I was 20 years old I could run 2 quarters at <65 seconds!  Now, being
    twice as old as him, I figure I should be entitled to 2x65 per lap to
    make things equal!
    
    Notice how I avoided the probable difference in stride length too.
    I should get something for that handicap?
    
    I remain,
    reallly impressed though, that's some great accomplishement
    Kev
    

The big question is did he use the proven right-left method or did he stir 
things up by using the controversial left-right. 

 

Kev -

The new 10k Record holder is 32 years old.  Chelimo was 20.   

Simply amazing stuff.  

Kenyan distance running rules.  They have a stable of youngsters ready to
break oout in the next few years (including Kip Kieno's son...)

A tradition of excellence.

JD

    That is amazing JD.
    
    Edumacate this here ignoramous on the Kenyan regimen. What makes them
    so great at distance running? Well, the African runners(Tanzania) in
    general. They all have rich running traditions.
    
    MikeL
     

    Last year at the Asbury Park 10K,one of the best road races in the
    country,the Kenyans took the first 8 places and none of those guys
    made their olympic team.
    
    The Kenyan olympic trials are the best distance running meet in the
    world.

MikeL


I saw a documentary on it once.  For one thing, running was a way of life.  It
wasn't abnormal for them to run 30-40 miles in one day - going back and forth
from villages, etc.   

I think it was Ben Jipcho (another great Kenyan, circa late 60's, early 70's) 
who ran to school every day - something like 12 miles each way, over rough
terrain, hills, etc.  When he got to secondary school, all he needed was some
coaching, and wham!  I believe he won the Olympic Steeplechase in 1968.

Many native tribes, from different locales, have this trait.  Using their
legs as the primary mode of transportation, they become accostomed to 
running great distances every day.  So, perhaps theres some hereditary trait.

Now, it seems the Kenyan runners get coaching either in Kenya, or here in the 
states, and explode onto the scene.  I believe the great distance runners
all come from the Rift Valley Region.  Kenya, Ethiopia, and Tanzania are in
that region.

Kenya has also, for the most part, not been devastated by famine and war as some
of her neighbors (such as Ethiopia).  Also, runners are regarded as national
heroes.   

JD

Dave -

Saw some other results from the Meet in Bislett.  I think the Kenyans took
6 of the top 7 steeplechase spots - with American Marc Crogan the only non
Kenyan able to crack them.  

jd

    They had a pretty disappointing olympics last year-Shut out in the 
    marathon,a silver in the 10,a bronze in the 5 and nothing in the 1500
    or marathon. Only a steeplechase sweep and 1-2 800 finish saved face.

Dave -

So true.  That was fairly shocking.  I've noticed that Kenya is starting to
produce good 400M runners - not in the US class  - but very good nontheless.

JD

    
    Fascinating stuff...where's the soccer note?
    
    brews

Frank DeLeo covered 134.6 miles (without benefit of a motor) to win the 
Ted Corbitt 24-hour run that ended in Roosevelt Island in New York. (Personally
I think Frank and the other competitors are a little daft...)

JD

I was watchin' something on PBS the other night on computer enhanced athletic 
ability they were talking about the track in Japan that 6 sprinters all finished
under 10 seconds in the 100M was called the "MAGIC carpet" this is the same 
place that set the world record long jump. 

Well seems that some man made motor driven type polymer was added to the surface
and this caused all of these atheletes to exceed the normal abilities....


they banned this stuff cause it's now illegal...  Kind of like drilling a hole
in the Carb huh ?

ok what is your excuse for  watching PBS??? 

The Crazy Met

I saw the same show....  It was about biomechanics.

One of the reasons they banned that track surface was the it was so hard
it could have caused major injuries to middle distance and distance runners.


'Saw

                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 42.0                 Official Track and Field Note               85 replies
CUPMK::DEVLIN "RAY What now? I'm Going to Disneyworld!"  4 lines  11-JAN-1993 16:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the official track and field note.  Discussions on training,
marathoning, and road racing will be allowed.

JD

    Speaking of JD, (in memoriam) this news bit is posted.
    
    For anybody who really,really cares, the World Track and Field
    Championships will be held in Stuttgart Germany starting thisted
    Friday (8/13) and will lasted until nexted Saturday (8/21).
    
    Rumor has it that thisted is a real sport since there's no machines or
    engines doing all the exertion!
    
    I remain,
    Kev_for_JD!
    

    
    Kev, is pole vaulting gonna happen here?  If so, in the purest sense,
    it is a machine, and does all the work.  I think JD's gonna have to
    change sports to something more reflecting his style--soccer!
    
    
    brews

    
    Yabbut Brews,
    Is the pole used in vaulting truely a machine?  It has only one part
    and it (by itself) doesn't even move!  No moving parts makes a
    machine?????
    
    Using that line of logic, then the shot put is a machine too.  So is
    the discuss!
    
    I thnk JD_logic says that as long as it's human powered it qualifies
    as a sprot.
    
    Of course that then raises the searing question around hunting (with a
    gun) as a sprot!  After all, it's the bullet(s) that does all the work,
    gets "tossed" (like a shot put or discuss).  Me? I don't think hunting
    is a sprot.  It's just a activity........  :^)
    
    I remain,
    still wondering about if tossing vertically-challenged people is a
    sprot?  Is the tossER or the tossEE the athelete?
    
    Kev
    

    Most pole vaulters could kick butt on most hunters man-o-man.

    
    say this 3 times:
    
    How much butt could a vaulter kick if a hunter could't shot?
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    fond of Mother Goose (oven roasted)!
    Kev
    

    
    I figger a the pole is used by the vaulter a lever, which is a machine.
    
    brews

The pole vaulters pole is an adjunct.  It is something that allows the
vaulter to perform his vault.  It is not powered per se, even human powered.
What the vaulter powers is himself, and then the pole is used as an adjunct
to get over the "wall".


Personally, I like to watch the "weight" events -- shot and hammer.
True, discus and javelin are classified as weight events, but to me it's more
form and technique with those events, than raw strength....

Hammer is a mean event....


'Saw

>    Sounds like 'Saw better repeat Physics 101.


I never took Physic 100, never mind 101.  It was just that my vocabulary
word for the day was "adjunct" and I wanted to use it a few times to
get used to it.....


'Saw

    Yabbut speaking of Anus and Physics, howcome if "for every action there
    is an opposite and equal reaction" when ya fart, yer don't get a
    "inhale" there?
    
    I remain,
    wondering of Galleleo ever pondered dat?
    Kev
    

    
    Kev, You are forgetting that your skin "breathes" too.  Which brings up
    the point that Clinton must have inhaled 8^)
    
    Marc
    

	Frank,  let me give you a hand removing that stilletto from between
	your shoulder blades.



	billl

    
    Yabbut Marc, if'n your skin breathes, howcome when yer swimming
    little bubbles don't come off ya and float to the surface like they do
    when ya expel a little flatulence?
    
    I remain,
    wondering howcome those little buggers don't smell either when they
    pop?
    Kev
    

    Could we at least upgrade this from a 6th grade lockerroom to a high
    school lockerroom?

po' Mac is getting squeamish.

The Crazy Met

    
    6th grade lockerroom - "tiny bubbles"
    
    high school lockerroom - "Let's put a match to the sucker and see if it 
    		              really lights"
    
    
    hth
    
    ;^)
    
    

When I graduated from High School, I was 6' tall and weighed in at a
whopping 145.

When I graduated from college four years later I was 6' tall and weighed
in at a whopping 155.

I have pictures of me in college, and believe it or not, at the time
I was concentration camp thin.  I made JD look like Arnold.

Then genetics took over, and I filled out. 

When they were doing fat testing in the gym, my "ideal weight" was pegged
at around 220, considering the percentages of fat/muscle at the time.

I'm still aiming to get down to 220, and I've lost 15 pounds since 
coming back from vacation.....


In high school, I probably would've been a runner.  Today I'd probably
rather work out till I puke and throw the shot....


'Saw

 >> Then genetics took over, and I filled out.

    So often people try to attribute to genetics and glands what could
    more honestly be credited to pizzas and cheeseburgers.

| >> Then genetics took over, and I filled out.
|
|    So often people try to attribute to genetics and glands what could
|    more honestly be credited to pizzas and cheeseburgers.

Well, it is some of that too, I admit, but it's a trait on my mom's side
of the family.

I have pictures of my uncle just out of Boot Camp during WWII, and he's
a skinny lad.  But then, over time he bulked up to be quite a strapping
specimen of a leatherneck.

I could never put muscle on as a kid, it just wouldn't work no matter
how much I lifted.  Then, when I started working out about a year ago,
I found I added muscle fairly quickly.

My attempt to get down to 220 is taking care of the pizza and burger
part....8^)


'Saw

  I think just about everyone sings that song, Frank. I weighed 140 from
 the about 16 years old to until I was about 24 and then I slowly started
 packing it on. I now weigh about 175. 

    
    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA 
    
    Name THIS tune!!!!!!!!!!
    
    I weight, at the age of 17, one hundred and eighteen pounds(118).  Today,
    rapidly approaching (shhhh) 43, I weigh 123 pounds!!!!
    
    Of course, when I was in the Army, eating 3,000 calories at every meal,
    I ballooned up to a ground shuddering 136 pounds!  And THAT was in
    basic training, you maggot!
    
    You guys just have no self control - Yer lacking in discipline - Yer
    all a bunch of wimps!!!!!
    
    AND, you sing off key too!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    still svelt (but having a JD voodoo experience)
    Kev
    

Oh no doubt we all pack it on, but I never had the "stumps" I've got now
back then....8^)


Maybe it's Kev that's the genetic oddity, then? 


'Saw

    If bein a mains main in a mainly kind of way cause I got self-
    control (!) is a genetic oddity, then so be it!
    
    I remain,
    the same stump I've always been!
    Kev
    

On the other hand...

As a high school senior I was a solid 165 lbs, and played guard on the football
team.  Through college and grad school things like my favorite meal (eggs with
cheese and mayo on a pita) caught up with me, and the muscle turned to blubber.
I then got sick of carrying it around, started running, and eating righ, and got
down to the totally wimpy 135-140 lbs I am now...

    Editor, where are you?
    This entire discussion had nothing to do with track!

>    This entire discussion had nothing to do with track!


Sure it did.  Well, the FIELD part of it, where the real men compete.  8^)

You know, the ones who have mastered something more complex than
right left, right left....



'Saw_for_MrT

    Ah, excuse me Mr. Chainsaw but I believe the left,right,left,right
    was NOT MrT.  
    
    I think it was either Zeke::Saia
    				or
    			      Tommy
    
    as they jousted with JD.
    
    AND all this running around we've had DOES have something to do with
    track.  They run around too!
    
    so there
    
    ;^)
    
    

  >                             -< Whatzupwitdis! >-   
     Editor, where are
  >  you?    This entire discussion had nothing to do with track!
    
    You must be new in here.  8^)

                
 re .116

  Wrong on both tries, Kev. It was ACk Chris at one of his funnier moments.

    Yabbut Tommy,
    
    Who died and made you gawd?  Yer condemming me for "bad" thoughts?
    
    I explicitely said, "I think" and here you are telling me I'm wrong for
    my thoughts.  You Catholic or sumfin?  Am I gonna burn in hail 'cause I
    had one measly bad thought?
    
    :^(
    
    I remain,
    uncomfortable in hot environments!
    Kev
    

    It doesn't always work that as described in here.  I weighed 210 when I
    was 18 and now weigh 190.

 Yeah, you were a real porker when you were 18.

    Yeah I know.  The summer we worked together (May-September of '80) was
    the year that changed my life for good.  I was at 210 when hired and
    172 when I left GenRad in September.  I managed to put on 10-15 by
    marrying an awesome cook and experiencing the side-effects of 4
    pregnancies.  It's not polite to let the lady indulge in her cravings
    alone.

    
    Sliding off the tangent and back to the title topic.....
    
    Olympic champeen, Linford Christie, a 33 year old Brit, won his first
    World champeenship in Germany, running a 9.87 second time.
    
    (not counting Ben Johnson's stricken time) this was the 2nd fastest 100
    meter ever run.  FWIW, 7 runners came in under 10.07 seconds.
    
    Also of note was Carl Lewis's 4th place finish - his 1st ever non-medal
    race in either the W/C's or the 'Pics!  He's 32 years old.
    
    I remain,
    po'd at the tee vee coverage though......
    Kev
    

    I agree the TV coverage did sip.
    
    The biggest upset so far was in the marathon, where American (former
    Soth African Mark Plaatjes won.  He was not expected to medal, and
    inded beat a field filled with the best in the world.  I beleive his
    ime was 2:15:xx.
    
    In the women's marathon, Kim Jones of Spokane, WA took and early lead
    and held it for 18 miles.  This is very contrary to her style, as she
    is usually a late charger.  It apparently backfired on her, however,
    when she was jostled at a water stop (something that happens all the
    time to us middle of the packer), and she eventually faded to eighth.
    
    =Bob=

I think he ran 2:13:xx; impressive under any condition, especially the
heat and humidity they were dealing with.

The Crazy Met

    Jackie Joyner Kersee won the heptathlon by defeating the previous
    leader by 1.5 seconds in the final event,the 800 meters.
    
    Michael Johnson won the 400 in 43.65(#3 alltime) in a race that
    included world record holder Butch Reynolds and 1992 gold medalist 
    Quincy Watts(owner of the #2 time).
    
    American women went 1-2 in 400.
    
    sorry for the interruption.

    Quincy Watts was furious due to the fact that his Nike's fell apart on
    the curve.  The sole at the heel started flapping.  He is the
    centerpiece for the Nike European marketing campaign.  It was noted
    that while he was holding up the damaged shoe the Reebok photographers
    were gleefully snapping pictures.
    
    Can't wait for the next Reebok commercial!
    
    

    Sergei Bubka won the pole vault at 19-8 1/4.  
    
    Keven Young the Olympic champion and world record holder executed a
    well-planned stride pattern (12 steps to hurdles 4 & 5, 13 to the rest)
    to defeat Samuel Matete of Zambia (to whom Young had lost three of his
    last four races).  Young's time was a meet-record 47.18 seconds.  Young
    wore his Nikes around his neck on his victory lap as a rebuttal to talk
    of Watt's shoe inexplicably falling apart Tuesday during his 400-meter
    final.  John Smith, who coaches both, said Young wanted to "show
    everybody that there's not a damn thing wrong with this shoe --- we're
    a Nike family."
    
    But Young admitted, "To tell you the truth, before I left for the
    track, I checked my insole...and the whole nine yards."
    
    Dan Obrien leads the decathlon after the first day by only 4 points,
    4,598 to 4,594 over Germany's Paul Meier, but customarily is stonger on
    the second day.
    
    Merlene Ottey, who in a 14-year career has never won a major title, won
    the women's 200 meters in 21.98 seconds to Gwen Torrence's 22.00.
    Torrence appeared to be upset with her race and refused to attend the
    post-award ceremony press conference.  Irina Privalova of Russia was
    third.
    
    Olympic champion Sally Gunnell, a farmer's daughter from England, set
    the first world record of the meet, shattering the women's 400-meter
    hurdles mark by 2 tenths of a second with a time of 52.74.  It was the
    first world record in a women's track event since 1988.  Sandra
    Farmer-Patrick, of the United States, took the race out hard and faded
    at the end, but still set an American record of 52.79.
    
    Carl Lewis and Mike Marsh won their 200-meter semifinals and will run
    the final today.  Lewis said the race would "almost definitely" be his
    last 200 in a major meet.
    
       

The highlight of this year's Worlds (IMHO) occured yesterday when the United 
States 4 x 400 relay team set a new world record.  Mumble-mumble, Quincy Watts, 
Butch Reynolds and Michael Jackson ran away from the field, and eclipsed the old 
mark by a significant margin.  This on a track that had not been known as 
exceptionally fast (as opposed to lasted year).  Particularly significant was 
contirbution of Reynolds, who is back after successfully fighting a drug 
suspension.  He ran a great third leg, and was more than willing to give up the 
anchor to Jackson, the current best 400 meter man.

=Bob=

    
    Is the relatively poor performance of Germany a surprise?  I would
    expect them to do well at home, but they are fairly far down on the
    medals list.
    
    

    
 >> Is the relatively poor performance of Germany a surprise?  

    Not really, given the end of the East German sports "schools"
    and along with it the end of the world's best drugging program. 
    Also at least one German star, Katrina Krabbe, is serving a susp-
    ension for use of an illegal substance. The real surprise in the 
    World Championships was the Chinese women who are also being accused
    of drug use.
       
    

 The Germans (ie Reebook and Puma) were to busy subdivusing Nike for
 Sneaker control of the world according to Nike spokesperson Mananeeda
 Nimpfomaniack. Nike plans to autosphy Watts' shoes. Another two pairs
 for other competitors received damange Nike claims no responsibilty because
 one guy used a differnt company's insole. If Nike made a good insole why
 would he need another? The other guy's foot got step on so it's not their
 fault? Geez never had my sneakers break when someone step on them...

 mike

Nike makes a terrible product, but pays  big bucks to get people of stature
to wear them.  Ditto Reebok.

The word is that the old (East) German coaches went to China, taking with
them their trainign techniques, and their drugs. this explains Germany's
dissapointing performance, and China's emergance.  I dunno, a place as big 
as China is bound to have some outstanding athletes, butthey did burst onto 
the scene rather quickly (kinda like FloJo did at the 'lympics).

=Bob=

    First of all none of you guys could recognize a track spike if it bit
    your ass!  Nike makes one of the best line of spikes in the
    "Internationalist".  Granted they are behind Mizuno, but they still 
    have won many a race, pro and amateur.  The spike should not matter
    anyway, for it is the runner who makes the spike, the spike does not
    make the runner.
    
    
    Rob
    1991 Mass.  State and New England Champ
    1991 High School All American
          300m  Hurdles
    1992 NAC Champ 400m Hurdles

  >> The spike should not matter anyway, for it is the runner who makes the 
  >> spike, the spike does not make the runner.
    
     Ah! Quoting Shakespeare! You go, Rob!

>    First of all none of you guys could recognize a track spike if it bit
>    your ass!  Nike makes one of the best line of spikes in the
>    "Internationalist".  Granted they are behind Mizuno, but they still 
>    have won many a race, pro and amateur.  The spike should not matter
>    anyway, for it is the runner who makes the spike, the spike does not
>    make the runner.
>    
>    
>    Rob
>    1991 Mass.  State and New England Champ
>    1991 High School All American
>          300m  Hurdles
>    1992 NAC Champ 400m Hurdles


Champ is a relative term.....


'Saw_for_Tommy


[many 8^)]

>>The spike should not matter
>>anyway, for it is the runner who makes the spike, the spike does not
>>make the runner.

	Now I ran track in high school (hurdles) and if you are saying that
	if you are an "exceptional" runner it "probably" would not matter
	what brand of spikes you are wearing, I will agree.  However, if 
	you are a "middle-of-the-packer" the difference between the top of
	the line and the $5.99 P.F. Flyers are like night and day and will
	make a considerable difference.

	Just imagine a 2-miler in cheap spikes that feel like a vise and 
	bring out those massive half-dollar sized blisters.  Now imagine 
	that same runner in a top of the line pair of spikes that feel like 
	pillows are strapped to his feet.  In this case, the spike would
	definitly "make" the runner.
 
>>1991 Mass.  State and New England Champ
>>1991 High School All American
>>      300m  Hurdles
>>1992 NAC Champ 400m Hurdles

	Cool, a noter with a resume!


	billl

>	the line and the $5.99 P.F. Flyers are like night and day and will
>	make a considerable difference.

How quickly you forget.

P.F Flyers had that special wedge that make you run faster and jump higher.


P.F. Flyers, Mighty Mouse, and Flash Gordon serials in the afternoon
are all a beloved part of my youth that I'll cherish forever.


'Saw

 Of course Nike has all those championships, they do it the good ole fashion
 way, they go out and buy em'....

 mike

Uhh, OK Rob, get this track spike out of my ass.

I may not know track spikes very well.  Most of forays onto the track have been 
borderline comical (JD could attest to this based on a 400 I once ran in a 
national meet).  I was baseing my assesment of Nike and Reebok on road training
shoes.  In this area, I have concluded that they are made terribly and designed
for the casual wearer, not the serious athlete.  I picked up the SI with the 
article on Nike.  It's not a coincidence that the lowest single market share 
they had was the running shoe market (albeit an unbeleivable 40%).

=Bob=

1986-90, 1992 Top 1000 finnishers  - Boston Marathon
1987 - 46th place, Boston Peace Marathon
1990 - 76th place, Rhode Island Marathon
...

I'm not a track athlete, and I don't even play one on TV.
I don't know the first thing about track spikes.

But I do know that, on the rugby pitch, when the team has corralled one
of those speedburning, hair-brushing, skinny-legged, fast wingers, and
the only way they can come is by me, I look right into their eyes
before I crunch them.

Their eyes look up at me the same way a possum looks up at headlights.

Then comes the contact.  It don't take a lot of speed to create potential
energy in someone of my size, and when I hit I always make sure to fire
my legs into it.

There's half a second or so when I've realized that they're no longer in
control of their feet, and the image enters my mind of driving their
shoulder blades into the turf.

There's that one final moment of ecstasy when you hear rib cartilege
crunch, and the breath escape their body in a ragged rush.  

That's what props live for....  If we catch you, we'll kill you 8^)


Adidas Flankers, 3/4" cleats.....


'Saw


1992 Beat Rich Gedman in a computer simulated race....just BARELY

>                       -< So, what's yer MPH now 'Saw?? >-

Actually, since I've dropped some weight and started squatting again,
it's probably up there.

One of these days, I'm going to get my brother and his stopwatch, and
go to the football field at the high-school and see what I can do in the
40.

I guarantee it'll be slow, but at least I'll know....

I can also guarantee you that I could level Rich Gedman -- no problem...
Just like Bo's two trains commercial....


'Saw

    

  >> Actually, since I've dropped some weight and started squatting again,

     I don't even want to know.
    

|  >> Actually, since I've dropped some weight and started squatting again,
|
|     I don't even want to know.


Well, that intestinal blockage was really tough, but, Lord willing, I took
it day by day and worked through it....    


8^)


PS  I *AM* back in the gym on a regular basis now, and deadlifts and squats
    are what get me the most psyched....  But I don't like folks slapping
    me in the face before I deadlift 8^)

    re .145
    
    I believe that the marathon is the freakshow of track.  It's a bunch of
    skinny rats who don't have the speed to run with the sprinters and 
    hurdlers so they kill themselves to run distance. Although middle
    distance runners seem decent.
    I do agree with you on the shoes. Nike does gear it's trainers towards
    the casual wearer, this is why I train in Asics, very lightweight and
    cushiony.  But when in the blocks your damn well sure I've strapped on
    my Nikes.
    
    Rob
    (dare I list my credentials again)

   >> (dare I list my credentials again)

      No. Make up some new ones.

>    I believe that the marathon is the freakshow of track.  It's a bunch of
>    skinny rats who don't have the speed to run with the sprinters and 
>    hurdlers so they kill themselves to run distance. Although middle
>    distance runners seem decent.

You're either born with speed or you're not.  So why not make the best
with what you've got...


I asked one of our speed burners one day what it was like to field the
ball, and kick it into high gear and just dodge and dart and finally
turn on the afterburner and blow down the pitch for a try?  I asked
him "Chris, just once I'd like to know what that's like".

He said to me "What's it feel like to absolutely crush someone with
all the mass in your body, and feel them quiver a little one the way
down"

I smiled and said "It's the BEST feeling in the world"

"That's what it's like to have speed," he said...


>    I do agree with you on the shoes. Nike does gear it's trainers towards
>    the casual wearer, this is why I train in Asics, very lightweight and
>    cushiony.  But when in the blocks your damn well sure I've strapped on
>    my Nikes.
    
Some shoes don't work for some folks.  I can't wear Brooks (even they
even still make them) since I got wicked, wicked shin splints.  The
only shoes I've found that are comfortable for me are New Balance.....



>    Rob
>    (dare I list my credentials again)

Nah, we're barely taking you seriously as it is  [many 8^)]


'Saw

Well, I guess I need to defend my sport again...

The marathon is not the "freak show" of track, but a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SPORT.  
I hold sprinters in a certain awe since I could never, not matter how much I 
trained, compete against them.  As 'Saw said, you are either born with speed, 
or you never have it.

On the other hand, the dedication and hard work it takes to compete in the 
marathon is unprecidented.  You have to be exceptionally dedicated just to
COMPETE, not to excell.  A sprinter blesed with natural ability can go long 
periods of time without training hard, jump into a competition, and not be 
humiliated.  If a marathoner did that, he would be endagering his life.
Becoming good at the marathon is something most runners take years to do.  
Learning how to train, how to strategize the race, how to eat, how much to
rest, etc. takes experience yourself, and the collective experience of your 
training partners.

There seem to be two types of runners at road races these days.  Folks who have
run all their lives, and worked their way up from, say the mile to the 10K to 
the marathon; and folks like me, who started running for fitness, and it 
became a more important thing to them.  I'm the first to admit, I have very 
little athletic ability (just ask the guys I play basketball with at lunch), but
through years of hard work, I have become a reasonably successful runner.

I don't pretend to know where Rob is coming from here, but there is a lot of 
jealousy in the higher echelons of the sports, because the marathon gets more 
press, more glory, etc. than T&F.  All I can say is that the average marathoner
realizes that it is a different sport, and holds true blue T&F guys in high 
esteem.  So give it a break Rob...

re: shoes

I ran exclusively in Asics for about the past six years, but I find their prices
are skyrocketing, and have found myself picking up an occasional pair of 
Sauconys.  They seem pretty well made, I haven't determined if thye will last 
as well as Asics do.

=Bob=

[need I list 'Saw's credentials again...]

    Marathon runners:==long on stamina, short on brains??????
    
    (8^)
    
    JaKe
    

>    Marathon runners:==long on stamina, short on brains??????
    

Hardly.

To hold concentration throughout 26.2 miles, to maintain pace, and,
if you're world class, determine strategy takes quite a bit of mental
sharpness.....

I can't tell you how many glazed-over eyes there were on Patriots day
when MikeL, Glenn and I watched the Boston Marathon.  If you can stay
sharp, especially in the last 6, it'll pay off.....

But the marathon runners in here can attest to that.....


'Saw

[What credentials?]
    

>    Marathon runners:==long on stamina, short on brains??????

Yea, I nver claimed to be as brilliant as you, Jake.

    
>>if you're world class, determine strategy takes quite a bit of mental
>>sharpness.....
    
    Lessee, strategy in running 26+ miles just to puke yer guts out:
    
    "Ok, left foot, then right foot then left foot then right foot, and
    every now and then, we'll try the left foot 3 times in a row to give
    the right foot a rest, then in another mile, the right foot 3 times in
    a row to give the left foot a rest...."
    
    
    (8^)
    
    JaKe
    

    My kinda marathon:
    
    
    Trying to drink 26.2 beers in under 3 hours!!!!
    
    Schnorttt Schittt Schleppps
    
    JaKe
    

Hey Jake, how'd you like to become my coach?

    
>>      <<< Note 42.160 by CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH "Melanie is one year old!!!" >>>
>>            -< What's jaKe doing here this time of day, anyways... >-

    Just logged in from home fer sumthin else and decided to get into
    SPORTS.
    
>>Hey Jake, how'd you like to become my coach?
    
    Fer which, the running marathon or the beer marathon???
    
    JaKe
    

    Rob,
    
    Nice accomplishments. (seriously)
    
    Did you make it to the Golden West meet?
    
    Ah, spikes.....I've had Adidas, Puma's, Patricks, Tigers.  Never had
    Nike's probably they weren't in bizness when I ran.  The best were the
    Adidas (Tokyo and Mexico City lines).  Incredibly light and flexible
    with just the minimum amount of heel protection.  Of course, you being
    a middle-distance kinda sprinter, you'd need more heel protection.  We
    50 and 100 yd. MEN did it on our toes!
    When I moved up to the middle distances too (440IH, mile relay) I
    needed more heel protection and I like the Puma's (they held up better
    but you paid the price in weight).
    
    Patricks were too damm heavy and the Tigers were too stiff.
    
    I know (from personal experience) that when a spike hits me in da ass,
    I know the difference    :^)
    
    I remain,
    in posession of a full shoebox full of medals, including
    
    1967 NYC 440 relay Champ (outdoors)
    1967 NYC 640 yd. relay Champ (indoors @MSG)
    
    1971 NJCAA Div 3 3rd place - 440 hurdles
    1971 Penn Relays Mile Relay 3rd place
    
    and a bunch of others......
    
    Kev
    

	I'll have to check the papper again, but in the Manchester Union
	Leader the other day a familiar name showed up in the race results
	for a race in Milford.

	Finishing second in the Mens 30-39 was none other than our own,
	well used to be, John Devlin, alias JD.


	billl

re: JD

Twas likely the very one.  Last time I checkd, JD was getting into very 
good shape, and planning to run a marathon in the Sept/Oct tiem frame.

>Twas likely the very one.  Last time I checkd, JD was getting into very 
>good shape, and planning to run a marathon in the Sept/Oct tiem frame.

JD is my inspiration.

I look at those AWESOME lats, and I go to the gym and do lat pulldowns, and
rows, and all sorts of stuff.  When I get tired, when my back is screaming
at me to stop, I just think of JD, and the look on the faces of those
Japanese schoolgirls, and those people he dumped iced tea all over at the
Meadowlands, and those awesome lats, and just press on.....


He's cool......


'Saw

  >> The spike should not matter anyway, for it is the runner who makes the 
  >> spike, the spike does not make the runner.
    
    
    Yabbut while you may have a point, I gotta interrupt and disagree (cain
    we do that in thisted file?)  ;^)
    
    At practice during the week, our coach forbade us from wearing spikes. 
    We had to train in flats.  Spikes could ONLY be worn for meets.  While
    you say that spikes don't make the runner I gotta tell you that on meet
    mornings after warming up (in flats) there was no greater adrenaline
    pumper than sitting down and lacing up yer spiked shoes.  The special
    snug fit, the sharp points, the just plain feeling of knowing you were
    gonna be FAST because of the spike's biting action in the track.  I'm
    sure it cain't be measured but IMO, the psychological impact of putting
    on the spikes and the associated adrenoline had at least a 0.2 sec
    benefit to me (on the 440 relay).  
    
    Remember carrying a bunch of "extra" spikes?  Long ones for soft cinder
    tracks, medium ones for the harder surfaces and of course, the teeny 
    (1/4"?) ones for the Tartan/board surfaces?  How many times did ya
    install the wrong size?  Ask somebody to borrow their spike wrench?
    
    Oh yeah, we never wore spikes in cross-country (mostly to first aid
    reasons) probably 'cause of the cost of replacing them vs. how long
    they'd last (not very).
    
    As the (typically) first runner (lead-off for trackkies ;^) in the 
    relays, I almost always had to run my leg in lanes, hence I never 
    got spiked but I've seen some real doozies.
    
    What's NOT fun though is running the 440 hurdles on a cinder track and
    after clearing a hurdle, having your lead foot land in the hole created
    by a relay runner.  Those suckers would dig out a depression so they
    would have a "pseudo starting block" for faster accelleration. 
    Unfortunately, nobody would go back and fill'm back in and after a
    couple of races, the track would look like a mini mine field.  I almost
    busted (or that's how it felt) my freeking ankle when I landed in one.
    As much as I don't like "all-weather" track surfaces, I gotta admit
    that not having gopher holes in them is kinda nice.
    
    I remain,
    a hurdling anomoly (at 5'5")  ;^)
    Kev
    
    

>    pumper than sitting down and lacing up yer spiked shoes.  The special
>    snug fit, the sharp points, the just plain feeling of knowing you were
>    gonna be FAST because of the spike's biting action in the track.  I'm
>    sure it cain't be measured but IMO, the psychological impact of putting
>    on the spikes and the associated adrenoline had at least a 0.2 sec
>    benefit to me (on the 440 relay).  

There is something psychological about putting on a pair of shoes like
that.  I've felt it with my boots.   Personally, I think it goes back
to girding your loins for battle.

When you finish lacing them up (your shoes, not your loins), your head
is ready.  

I always leave the shoes for last.  


I never benefit in a speed sense from putting on my shoes.  I mean, for
me, .2 seconds and 20 seconds are roughly the same, you know.  But I'm
READY in other ways.....


(Tell you a secret thought.  Somedays when I do roadwork I feel like
the WIND!)


'Saw


    
    

Yabbut Kev, yer fulla wind!

Us "roadies" do the same thing with shoes.  You wear training flats which weigh
between 10 and 12+ ounces for all your trainign runs, then slip into racing 
flats at 7 to 9 ounces for the race.  Feel like you're running barefoot.

Of course, sometimes in the late stages of a marathon, every step feels like a 
hammer on your foot,and you long for your heavy training shoes.

=Bob=

>Us "roadies" do the same thing with shoes.  You wear training flats which weigh
>between 10 and 12+ ounces for all your trainign runs, then slip into racing 
>flats at 7 to 9 ounces for the race.  Feel like you're running barefoot.
>

Us "Clydesdales" who do some roadwork can't go to flats.  I need all the
shock absorption I can get.   Granted, I'm below 235 now, but I can still
wear out pair of shoes fairly quickly -- then I just toss them in the
Salvation Army box.  Usually the shock absorption is gone, but the
uppers and soles are in great shape.....


'Saw

    
    Yabbut regarding the best feeling......
    
    There's nothing in the world to compare to being the lead-off runner on
    an 11 lap/mile indoor track with banked turns and winning the start! 
    Ya start in the middle of the "straightaway" and run the firsted turn
    in your lane then you can cut to the inside lane, blast 40 yards on the
    other straightaway and hit the banked turn, never slowing down.  Drop
    yer left shoulder as ya go through the banked turn and just pump
    through.  Usually ya run either 1 full lap (for the 4 lap relay), 160
    yards or 1 1/2 lap for the 6 lap relay.  If you don't have the lead
    coming off the firsted turn, you can usually forget it because passing
    on a 11 lap track is vewy, vewy hard.  The straights are short, passing
    on a banked turn makes ya run further than yer opponent ('cause he's
    got the inside AND he can move out (up higher on the turn).  I've found
    that regardless of how long your race leg is, the entire race boils
    down to the firsted 60 yards (start and 1st turn).  There's nothing to
    compare to a great start and whooshing 1st turn and finding yerself
    a stride or more ahead of the other runners.
    
    It's also sorta comical seeing big guys who never ran on a banked track
    try to blast around the turns.  Talk about w-i-d-e up_the_bank
    running.....they probably run a_extra 4 yards on every turn......
    
    I remain,
    getting pumped from the memories!
    Kev
    

>    Yabbut regarding the best feeling......
>    
>    There's nothing in the world to compare to being the lead-off runner on
>    an 11 lap/mile indoor track with banked turns and winning the start! 


Except for maybe running over toads with the lawnmower......

    
    Yabbut from the dirty tricks department.....
    
    Anybody (else) ever run in a relay race and find themselves either neck
    and neck or just slightly behind the lead runner just as ya go to hand
    the baton to the nexted runner?
    
    Anybody ever sorta "WHACK" the hand/baton of the other team causing it
    to be dropped?
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    devilishly nasty sometimes.....
    Kev
    

>    Anybody (else) ever run in a relay race and find themselves either neck
>    and neck or just slightly behind the lead runner just as ya go to hand
>    the baton to the nexted runner?
    

They didn't let me near the track when they were runnign relays.....

Just remember:  Cheaters never prosper.    That being said, if you can
get away with it, do it.




They repaved North Street yesterday, and I did a 3.1 mile run last night.
I couldn't help but think about all of your speed burners with your spikes,
and how much time the spikes would take off your time.   The reason being,
that, as I was running up this newly laid tar, my shoes would make this
like sticky sound, kind of like velcro being undone....  (How come bra
straps aren't done with velcro????)

Anyway, it was great on the hills cause it would "pull" me up the hill.
But on the flats I'm sure I was being held back...

The worst part though, was that in places only one lane had been paved.
Cars flying by would kick up these little pebbles of asphalt that would
then take on ballistic characteristics and hit my legs.  The faster the
car, the more deadly the shot.   


It was fun.  Almost got hit in the boys once, but turned my hip quick enough.


'Saw
    

'saw

Funny you should mention new tar.  Don't tell any of my clients (like MikeyL) 
but I did a kinda long run today at lunch, and they were paving one of the 
roads I was on.  Scrunch, scrunch, scrunch - took two more miles before my shoes
didn't stick.

Also, speaking of Clydesdales (as we were in another note), a lot of races have
"Clydesdale" divisions.  I think that the cut off is over 190 lbs. for men, and
175 for women.  Just think, you could win your division, get your name in the 
paper, become a celebrity, and we can say we knew him when...

>Funny you should mention new tar.  Don't tell any of my clients (like MikeyL) 
>but I did a kinda long run today at lunch, and they were paving one of the 
>roads I was on.  Scrunch, scrunch, scrunch - took two more miles before my shoes
>didn't stick.


I had to take my shoes off just inside the door last night.  I didn't have
the ambition to look at the bottoms of them -- I can only imagine what
I'll find there..

>Also, speaking of Clydesdales (as we were in another note), a lot of races have
>"Clydesdale" divisions.  I think that the cut off is over 190 lbs. for men, and
>175 for women.  Just think, you could win your division, get your name in the 
>paper, become a celebrity, and we can say we knew him when...

Well, at 234 I guess I'd be a Clydesdale, but I remember JD giving some
kind of "purist" argument against this....

'Saw

  I thought that was just another foolish JD crusade that made absolutely no
 sense and the less sense his crusades were the more passionate he was about
 them. He was apopletic about this one.

>  I thought that was just another foolish JD crusade that made absolutely no
> sense and the less sense his crusades were the more passionate he was about
> them. He was apopletic about this one.

Well, JD was/is a very serious runner, and sometimes their attitudes are
slightly different than folks who run for fun.

Personally, all the reward I've ever needed for running was 

		a) seeing my time come down
		b) talking to some babes during the race
		c) the almost unequaled taste of a cold one right
		   after the race....


'Saw

    
    To quote da Three Stooges:
    
    Bobby "Get back to woik like ah told ya!""
    
    
    8^)
    MikeL
    
    P.S. See if'n I offere to run wif ya agin. Last time ya emarrasked me
    by running backwards whilst I was strugglin'!!
    
    
    

>    P.S. See if'n I offere to run wif ya agin. Last time ya emarrasked me
>    by running backwards whilst I was strugglin'!!


Leave the bottle of Bushmills in the car then, when you run.....8^)    
    
    

 >> Well, JD was/is a very serious runner, and sometimes their attitudes are
 >> slightly different than folks who run for fun.

    I miss JD as a sparring partner BUT he had those attitudes about alot 
    more things than just running. Like his attitudes about motorsports and 
    Jordan and Ali and younameit. His attitude about women's running made
    absolutley no sense to me. If you don't think there should be women's 
    races or women's divisions then what about women's sports in general?
    Either compete with the men or don't comptete at all? It's neanderthal.

Many of JDs "opinions" were entered in ::SPROTS just to stir things up.

Imagine that...

  >> Many of JDs "opinions" were entered in ::SPROTS just to stir things up.

  >> Imagine that...
    
     People really do such things?

    
    I should have run him over with my bike !	His comments were not to be
    believed...
    

They struck right and true to the heart of your "sport", eh?

 re .185

 Mike, he was just baiting you. JD's basically alright but sometimes he 
 just doesn't know when to quit. That's another thing we have in common.
 If you read some of his opinions on other things you would have let his
 opinion on bike racing slide.

    
    Tom,
    
    Thanks, It's just I hear it all the time when it comes to roadracing. I
    try and open people up to it, and offer a free ride to the track with
    front row seats. He would'nt budge and I feel as though I put forth a
    good faith effort.
    
    I just got my video of the on Racecam, Hope it came out as expected.
    
     

    
    Metz, not sure if I follow you ?

    Nourdene Morcelli of Algeria smashed the world record in the
    mile,Sunday night Sept.5 at Rieto,Italy with the incredible time of
    3:44.39.That is almost two seconds better than Steve Cram of Britain
    ran in 1986. He AVERAGED 56 seconds per quarter. 

    
    
       >> .. with the incredible time of 3:44.39.
    
    
      Geez, that's fast.
    
      Tim Noakes has a chart in his book that shows the time for the mile
    progressively faster as time passes, and this is pretty much 
    on schedule. I believe it ends up with a 3 minute mile
    somewhere around the year 2000.
    
      
      Steve
    
    

    
     A Chinese woman, Wang Junxia, shattered the world record in the 10k by
    42 seconds yesterday. Prompting more specualation about improprieties
    in Chinese athletics programs. The woman's time of 29 minutes 31.78 
    seconds was more than a minute faster than her previous best.

>     A Chinese woman, Wang Junxia, shattered the world record in the 10k by
>    42 seconds yesterday. Prompting more specualation about improprieties
>    in Chinese athletics programs. The woman's time of 29 minutes 31.78 
>    seconds was more than a minute faster than her previous best.

Sure does make you wonder, doesn't it?

           <<< Note 42.193 by CAM3::WAY "Hers for the taking...." >>>

>>>     A Chinese woman, Wang Junxia, shattered the world record in the 10k by
>>>    42 seconds yesterday. Prompting more specualation about improprieties
>>>    in Chinese athletics programs. The woman's time of 29 minutes 31.78 
>>>    seconds was more than a minute faster than her previous best.

>>  Sure does make you wonder, doesn't it?


 If they just made it legal you wouldn't have to wonder......

 mike

There seems little doubt in the T&F world that the Chinese women are juicing.
Lynn Jennings (the greatest 'Merican athlete today {IMHO}) was quoted as saying 
that she "lost some of the joy for th sport" when she heard about Wang.  The 
circumstantial evidence is as strong as in the case of FloJo.  New coaches from
a program that was rumored to be dirty (the former East Germany), and a drastic
improvement in a short period of time for the entire program.

Too bad.

Why the hell would they make it legal?

=Bob=

 Making steroids and human growth hormone legal would only increase the number 
of Lyle Alzado type cases down the road. We now only have a small sample of
the negative effect of steroids. Make them legal and we'd get a real taste of
just how much damage they can do. Making them legal would also make it imposs-
ible for athletes who refuse to take drugs for personal reasons to compete.
What's more it'd eventually come down not necessarily who's the best athlete
but who has the best combination of athletes and chemists. Frankenstein un-
leashed. I agree that some of the drug laws in this country are draconian 
but legalizing steroids would seroiusly damage fairness in sport.

    
    Yabbut ya think that maybe the 'nese are doing a variant of blood "aka
    Lassie Verin" dopping?  I wonder if they could "juice-up" stuff in the 
    blood pouch to enhance performance.  If I recall, most of these
    'nese accomplishments are in the mid to longer races, right?
    
    Does the logic/science fiction play out?
    
    I remain,
    
    <exit>
    

    
 >> Weren't there questions surrounding the performance of swimmers as
 >> well?
   
    Yup. And their rowers,too. The Chinese deny that they're using 
    coaches from East Germany's notorious drug program but few believe 
    them. And these women are coming, literally, from nowhere and burst-
    ing onto the scene. What's more is these same women show incred-
    ible burts of improvements over very short time spans. Any one of 
    these things alone would be rather fishy but taken all together 
    and the sirens go off and the red lights start flashing. It makes 
    you wonder what the psyche of the women who have to compete against
    them is when they know that their opposition has an illegal edge.
  

    Sounds just like the East German woman swim team in the 1976 Olympics.
    One US swimmer won 4 silvers and a gold and probably would have won 5
    golds if the East Germans weren't using steroids.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

   I saw a piece on that, Craze. I think the US swimmer was Shirley 
  Babishoff (sp?). Anyways, Shirley said that all of the other women knew
  that the East Germans were using something but the losers were port-
  rayed as poor sports and no one paid them any heed. As part of the 
  piece they showed footage of the East German women standing poolside
  and (my goodness!) they couldn't have worn sandwich boards that said
  "STEROID USER" and been more obvious. They had incredibly muscular
  shoulder carriages and legs, manly facial feature , they had all 
  showed the same rapid improvement and when Shirley said she talked to
  one of them the woman's voice was huskier than Lou Rawls'. Years later 
  when the Wall came down, papers were found at one of EG's more notoroius
  sports factories with conclusive proof that the EGs had a very soph-
  isticated drug program and the swim team was part of it. Shirley Babishoff
  will never get the satisfaction of being the female equivalent of Mark
  Spitz, though.

    Wang Junxia sliced another 6 seconds off the 3,000 meter world record,
    running Monday's final in 8 minutes, 6.11 seconds at the 7th Chinese
    National Games.  Her third world record in six days...hmm!!  Such a
    speedy recovery every other day...hmm!!  The Chinese coach Ma Junren
    said that his runners have been tested for drugs daily during the
    National Games.  He did not say what ther results were, but that there
    have been no reports of any athlete testing positive for banned
    substances during the games...hmm!  Sounds to me like they have an HGH
    that is undetectable or an unbanned substance that produces the similar
    results as the banned ones.
    
    Michael Johnson celebrated his 26th birthday Monday easily winning the
    200-meter in 20.38 seconds, a meet record at the ITC International
    Athletic Meet in New Delhi, India.  Butch Reynolds won the 400-meters
    in 44.87 and Mike Powell won the long jump in 27 feet 2 inches (also a
    meet record).
    
    BTW...Any Masters T&F competitors out there???

I heard on the news last night that she drinks a "health tonic" made out
of caterpillar fungus.

Now, I'll be the first to admit I'd like to be healthy, but caterpillar
fungus?  

Yeah, RIGHT.....


'Saw

    She's probably on 'roids... check out how much she sweats...
    

>    She's probably on 'roids... check out how much she sweats...

Does she sweat as much as Dominque?
    

Supposedly the secrets training techniques include...

Running a marthon a day at high altitude
drinking soup made from soft shell turtles
Drinking an elixir made from catipillar fungus

and

Studying the running "techniques" of the minx deer and the pelican...


My guess is some new water based 'roid that flushes out of the body fast enough
to avoid detection....

Metz

>              -< 'saw studies the "technique" of Rich Gedman... >-

I've worked hard to perfect that low-center-of-gravity, stumpy leg
motion running style.

It's not easy, but it works for me......


'Saw

    I dont know, they seem to have a natural mix to cure anything, who's
    to say they havnt stumbled apon something to increase a human bodies
    performance... 
    
    You just might see turtle soup and Bug Fungas on the menu's of some
    local sport teams RB,WR and LB.. :-)
    
    								MaB

    nah, they'll first test those thing sout on Rugby players.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Yabbut doncha know
    
    Caterpillar fungus
    
    
    
    is a lot like rugby!
    
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    <exit>

    Sorry, TCM, but professionalism hasn't crept that far into Rugby Union
    yet.

Article: 15689
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.sports.top
Subject: Eleven Chinese athletes test positive for banned substances
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 13:39:04 EDT
 
	BEIJING (UPI) -- Eleven Chinese athletes who participated in last
month's National Games failed doping tests, but neither of China's two
new middle-distance record holders was among them, organizers said
Thursday.
	The announcement is expected to raise international suspicion of
China's sports program and the meteoric rise of coach Ma Junren's female
runners, who broke three world records in a three-day span during the
games.
	Chinese officials stressed that neither of the controversial new
world champions, Wang Junxia or Qu Yunxia, were among the 11, while
admitting the women's performances ``aroused suspicion among some
athletic coaches in other countries,'' the official Xinhua news agency
reported.
	``Eleven were found to have tested positive among the 534 athletes
who received doping tests during China's Seventh National Games last
month,'' a games spokesman was quoted by Xinhua as saying.
	The spokesman said the 11 ``did not include the Chinese girls Wang
Junxia and Qu Yunxia, both world champions in Stuttgart, who set new
world records in the 1,000 meters, 3,000 meters and 1,500 meters races
at the National Games,'' according to Xinhua.
	All 11 athletes testing positive for controlled substances would be
punished ``according to the rules of the international and Chinese
governing bodies of the sports (concerned),'' the spokesman said.
	Chinese Olympic Committee Secretary General Wei Jizhong condemned the
athletes, saying ``the COC strongly denounced the use of any banned
drugs by Chinese athletes for enhancing their performances, which is
against the Olympic spirit,'' Xinhua said.
	The dispatch did not reveal what substances were found in the
athletes, who they were, or the sporting events in which they had
competed.
	Since Wang and Qu, who are known as coach ``Ma Junren's army'' for
their rigid training regimen and spectacular results, won their races at
the World Championships in Stuttgart in July and went on to claim their
world records, international scrutiny has focused on them and their
possible drug use.
	But at a press conference following the games, Ma derided his
detractors, saying none of his athletes ever had taken any banned
substances. He said the secret of their success was a Chinese herbal
concoction made from caterpillars.

    
    	Yabbit I think it was on Monday, when the "normal" world had the
    day off that in Boston, Lynn Jennings won her 6th (and 5th in a row) 
    wimmins <mumblefratz> 10K.
    
    I think this race had someting like 13 Olympic medal winners and/or
    world record holders.
    
    Congrats Lynn!
    
    I remain,
    ::Sports belatedly late occasional reporter!
    Kev
    

    	Wimmins <mumblefratz> 10K = Tufts 10K
    
    	This is the old Bonney Bell race, I believe.
    
    	Scott

    	She also said "If I'm the figurehead, that's fine. I'll
    	be back again next year."
    
    	Scott

    
    
    	and now, in the news......
    
    It's been reported in the Woostah paper that ex-great track star
    Marty Ligouri ran a mile in 4:43 earlier this week.
    
    Marty's suffering from leukemia for the last 2 years.......
    
    
    Get well soon Marty
    
    I remain,
    remembering watching him run x-c when he was in high school
    Kev
    
    
    
    

>     remembering watching him run x-c when he was in high school

boy you're old :-)

The Crazy Met

    
    
    Yabbut so yesterday was the Marine Corps Marathon in dee cee.  What's
    been reported so far is:
    
    	a)  The winner, <don't remember his name> has been accused of
    cutting the course & shortening the distance he ran by somethang like
    35 yards.  He's actually said he did cut the course but he went on to
    say somethang like "but everybody in Europe does that".
    
    	b)   Some 58 year old guy died of a heart attack during the run.
    
    
    
    Does anybody know if anybody we know happened to make his annual
    trip to Dee Cee thisted year?  ;^)
    
    I remain,
    eager to get a lost_toenail report
    Kev
    

I didn't make it thised year, and this is the first report of this I hear.  
I'll have to do some investigation, and report back to the managing editor.

=Bob=

    re: -2
    
    Two Atlanta DECcies participated that I know of but I've not heard
    their feedback on the race.
    
    	Laura Elkins@ALF	&	Joe Robinson@ALF
    
    Tony S.

Dr. George Sheehan, medical editor of Runner's World Magazine, and noted health
expert died Monday of prostate cancer at (I beleive) age 74.

Dr. Sheehan had battled back from the disease for the past six years, to the 
point that he was running and racing regularly.  His columns often dealt with
his recovery and reoccurances, and what it meant to his life.  He had a great 
perspective on it.

He was a great runner himself.  When he was in college, he had run a 4:19 mile, 
at the time only seven seconds off the world record.  He set a flock of age 
group records wehn he was over 60, most of which still stand.

=Bob=

Amen =Bob=. I'll miss his columun in RW. snif snif...

mike

    	Man, Sheehan knew how to write, too. My wife and I both thought
    	his books were very well done.
    
    	Scott

    
    
    Yabbut on Sunday morning they're gonna run the NYC Marathon (again).
    
    Anybody here gonna be running in it thisted year?  Mr. Lazarus perhaps?
    
    I remain,
    not gonna be able to watch it live on the tee vee  ;^(
    Kev
    

    
    
    Yabbut we interrupt our lastest ND/BC/Jesuit/HC Fathers LDUC to bring
    you this important news break!
    
    
    
    
    
    	ABC Sports has announced they ain't gonna put the NYC marathon on
    tee vee anymore.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    You may now resume your regular tantrums......
    
    
    
    ;^)
    
    

    
    
    >> no NYC marathon on TV.
    
    
      Makes sense.
     
      We, (the U.S) finally get an American to briefly lead and
    finish second, so yank it off the air.
    
      Anybody know if Lynn Swann finished the run?
    

    
     Lynn Swann finished in about 4:20 or so. He said it was the most
    satisfying thing that he's ever done in sports.

    
    Good, maybe they can have some real sports on now, like ballet of the
    network stars.
    
    brews

Yea, I had heard the bad news about the NYC 'thon.

From my own standpoint, I always hope for good ratings for NY, so ABC will bid 
for Boston, on the condition that they move it to Sunday (there was serious 
talk of this when the money sponsers came in a few years ago). If they did that,
I could still run and attend my firsted ::SPROTS Patriots Day Red Sox 
Extravaganza.

Pragmatically, I know that the appeal has been limited, since the casual viewer
has no idea who the elite athletes from East Africa, Mexico and Asia are.  Maybe
when the single most dominant athlete today, Lynn Jennings, moves up to the 
marathon, the appeal will be renewed.

=Bob=

    re: .231
    
    Hey boC isn't it time you muddled over to note 50?? and just in time
    for Thanksgiving dinner. hehehe.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

 >       Hey boC isn't it time you muddled over to note 50?? and just in
 >   time for Thanksgiving dinner. hehehe.        
    
 >   The Crazy Met
    
    boC don't read this note, doesn't have to enter anything in 50 anyway.
    
    brews for boC
    

Manchester Road Race happens tomorrow.

As is my Thanksgiving Tradition, I'll be "pit crew" for a couple
of runners -- one a mutual friend of mine and Bob's.

The race will end and they'll gather round the pickup and
suck down a couple of icy colds ones to "warm up" for
dinner later....

'Saw

    
    
    Yabbut doncha know that over the weekend, =Bob='s fantasy babe,
    Lynne Jennings won the US X-C Champeenships (again)?
    
    I don't remember her time (turkey dressing blockage) but she won by ~18
    seconds.
    
    I remain,
    passing up the turkey trot for another kind of trot!
    Kev
    

John Gregorick won the Manchester Road Race, in a thrilling finish.
He beat a guy from Finland and another from Zimbabwe in a sprint to the
finish.  Pace was two seconds shy of a the course record, 21:28....

Mary Decker Slaney won the women's race, and course record holder
Judy St. Hillaire was second.


It was wicked cold (only about 18F at race time) but even still the
beers tasted great after the race.....


'Saw

PS =Bob=, Chris ran a 31:45, but he'd been sick for two weeks and just
   went out for an easy run....  I guarded the beer cooler....

    
    
    Yabbut sheesh, Gregorick is still around?  He got outa high school
    ~1971!!!!!
    
    Natcherally, he's a Lawn Guyland native too!
    
    I remain,
    nativelly glad I left there 2
    Kev
    

>    Yabbut sheesh, Gregorick is still around?  He got outa high school
>    ~1971!!!!!
>    
>    Natcherally, he's a Lawn Guyland native too!
    

Yeah, he's a regular at the Race, along with John Tracey and of course,
Amby Burfoot, who still runs it every year, along with Charlier What'shisname,
the guy who runs it barefoot.

Bill Rogers runs it on occasion, I had a chance to talk with him two
years ago.

Mary Decker Slaney said she's coming back because it was a fun race to
do.


'Saw

    
    
    >> As to me and Boston:  surely you jest!  8^)
    
    
      Why not?  Nobody says you have to win it...
    
    
      What a goal!! 
    
      C'mon Saw, I bet you could do it.
    
    
      On the downside, once you start training and start seeing 
    results (on the scale and in performance), you'll be hooked.
    You'll become a lifelong member of the "left right society"
    
      Chew on it for a week or two...... 
    
    

They had the coverage of the Iron Man Triathalon on Saturday.  That event
still astounds me.

At any rate, Mark Allen, (aka The Grip of Death) won again, in a very similar
fashion to his win last year.   He stayed closed and then passed the 
leader in the second half of the marathon....

Tough stuff.....


'Saw

    
    
    	Yabbut wasn't that a great show?  Wasn't that Allen's 6th IRT
    win?
    
    Of course, some of the "up close and personal" stuff was a waste,
    especially the dude with the weird hair-do.
    
    I remain,
    thinking he's probably a s/w type of guy too!
    ;^)
    Kev
    

>    
>    	Yabbut wasn't that a great show?  Wasn't that Allen's 6th IRT
>    win?
>    

Something like that.

>    Of course, some of the "up close and personal" stuff was a waste,
>    especially the dude with the weird hair-do.

Agreed.

    
>    thinking he's probably a s/w type of guy too!


Only if he can really CODE.  We don't allow people to be weird unless
they can back it up.  Otherwise, we make their lives so much hell they
commit suicide......    

    
    
    	Yabbut just in case anybody really cares, lasted Friday was
    the xth Millrose games in MSG.  My brother drove from Providence
    to see some friends and attend the meet.
    	While I don't have much in the way of race results to report, my
    brother commented that it was probably the worst track meet he's ever
    seen (and that covers ~25 years).  First, the meet was sponsored
    by one company, like the "Citibank Wannamaker-Millrose Games", each
    event was sponsored by someone else like "The Cheese Whiz Pole Vault"
    and the "Motts 3,000 meter relya".  Way too commercial.
    	Then there's the track.  If'n ya didn't know, it's an 11
    lap-to-the-mile variety, with banked turns, 140 yards per lap.
    NOBODY knows how to run on banked turns anymore!!!!!  My brother 
    said that he thinks there are only about 6 tracks like it in the
    entire country.  Almost everybody now runs on a 220 yd (or 200 meter)
    flat track found in the "fieldhouses" proliferating the country.
    Too bad too.  Contests on the 11 lap track have provided some of the
    most competitive and enjoyable races I've ever seen.
    	Race times were horribly slow and it seemed like the "grandaddy
    of indoor track meets" was, in fact, nothing more than a geriatric
    meet.  Guys like Dwight Stones, 40 years old competing in the Masters
    Division!
    
    	Sadly, it looks like another part of this once noble athletic
    competition is going away.  I'll miss it.
    
    I remain,
    fondly remembering my races in MSG in the 11 lap banked track
    Kev
    

it is sad, Kev.
Sadder yet, Suzy Hamilton mis-counted laps in the women's mile,
kicking the entire tenth lap and stopping as the field passed
her for the bell lap.
How can that happen at that level?

dr.a

    	Yeah, my daughter asked, "Why did she stop?"
    	I said, "Because she miscounted the laps."
    
    	Then, she asked me what a rabbit was and why they needed
    	them.
    
    	Scott

    re: 254
    
    	I'm a master (42, second year at this) scheduled to run in my first
    indoor meet this coming weekend.  What should I know about running on a
    banked board track (200 meter)?  
    
    	I'm excited about getting the opportunity to participate in a meet
    where my youngest daughter (9 yrs old) will also be competing.
    

    
    
    	Yabbut that's GREAT!!!!!!  What distance will you be running?
    Is it a relay?  If so, what leg?
    
    There are a few key points you must remember:
    
    Run the straightaway like a banchee and don't slow down (much) when you
    approach the turn.  If you are in the lead when you get to the turn,
    and you have somebody real close to you, you want to run in the
    middle-to-outside of the lane.  This will make the guy following you
    have to run 2-3 more yards than you will.  If you are in the lead (a
    good one) then your track should be as close to the inside of the track
    as possible.  This will shorten the distance you'll have to run.
    
    Running the turns effectively:
    
    You need to drop your left shoulder and "twist" your torso down
    towards the inside of the track.  The more you "lean", the easier it
    will be to maintain your speed.  This leaning will naturally make you
    want to swing your right arm more.  Concentrate on swinging your
    arm.  It will do 2 things for you.  One, maintain pace and two (which
    is probably more effective) it will keep those runners who might be
    alongside you farther away from you.  They don't want to get whacked!
    
    If you are not in the lead, do not try to pass on the turns.  Make your
    move on the straightaway.  Blast out of the turn and pass the other
    runner as fast as you can (before you get to the next turn).  If you
    can, get 1 stride ahead before the turn and cut to the inside.
    
    more later
    
    I remain,
    Coach_Kev
    
    

    
    Thanks Coach!  The banked strategy seems to differ from outdoor flat in
    that I'm told you need to run the turns regardless of position and
    explode out the turn.
    
    I'll be running the 200M, 55M, and maybe the 400M if I get a decent
    rest period between.  My best time on the 200M outdoors was 23.59. 
    Never had a timed 400M.  I normally do the long jump (~20 ft) and
    triple jump (~41 ft) but only the long jump is offered indoors.
    
    Thanks again!!
    Tony S:
    
    PS:  Doesn't anyone out there still perform in track and field, masters
    or otherwise (open)?  There are quite a few meets going on all over the
    country.  I'm trying to qualify for the master's 100 at this years Penn
    Relays at the end of April.
    
    

    
    
    	Yabbut, other than the techniques of running the turns, the other
    major difference between outdoor and indoors it the lanes.  Most times, 
    the 200 and 400 are run all the way in lanes.  In indoor, there's a
    staggered start with only 1 or 2 turns before ya aim for the inside
    lanes.  That's why the start is even more important than it is
    outdoors.  IMO&E, the runner who gets to the inside lane first is
    rarely passed because the 2-3 yard difference with the inside
    lane/outside lane.  If someone is coming up on you on the "straights",
    you gotta hold him off. Don't let him get to the turn before you or
    *you'll* be running the longer distance!
    
    	You can really screw up your opponents and cause them to break pace
    if you run fast on the straights and then change pace as you enter the
    turn and then speed up 1/2 way around the turn.  They chop steps and
    usually, if you accellerate, you catch them off guard.  Be careful
    though, if you slow down too much the guy on your outside shoulder
    *may* be able to pass you on the turn, if he knows the running style
    (low shoulder) and is familiar with board running.
    
    	Be prepared for a good amount of "joshling and bumping".  The
    narrower track forces people to run close together and, if they're not
    familiar with banked turns, the pace will change as they "rubber band".
    
    
    	Good luck and please tell us (me?) all about the races.
    
    Oh, one other thing.  What I've written are very true for the 11 lap,
    160 yd. tracks.  I've never run on a 200 so I don't know how tight the
    turns are.  It's possible the bigger turns, if they are bigger, won't
    have as much of an impact.
    
    
    
    	I remain,
    
    Coach_Kev
    

    
    
    
    
    	Yabbut is seems that JD was playin internet with somebody else too!
    
    
Kev -
Yeah, I saw results from Milrose.  Sad spectacle.  Eamon
Coughlin the big story with the 'Master's Mile'.  I long
said that age groups - especially the Masters division, 
would be the total ruination of the sport.  No one
focus' on the young guys.  

As for the sponsership of events, a few years ago
PBS had a bittersweet 'comedy' on about the 
commercialism of the Olympics.  They had the race call
for the AT&T 4x400 relay - except every facet of the
race had a different sponser:
The Tenneco Start, the Mobil first leg, the Pepsi first
handoff, the IBM second leg, etc.....

Alas, I think track and field is a dying sport in this
country.  Due to our size, we'll always have great
athletes - especially in the sprints, where raw talent
can help you go far, but in the field events and
distances, we are fading fast.  Think about, less than
two decades ago we were the greatest nation of pole
vaulters on earth - now we have a hard time producing a
world class pole vaulter.  In the weights, the hammer has
long deserted us, the USOC ran our best javelin man out
of the country until he became a South African resident,
in the discus we've fallen on hard times, and in the shot,
our last Olympic shot champion was found to be steroidial.

In the 800 up, we have world class athletes, but rarely
do we have a top 5 or even 10 athlete anymore.  
Only the sprints, and the jumps (and the high jump is
an event we are on the verge of slipping into mediocrity,
ditto for the triple jump) leave us with the tops in the
world.

The 100,200,400, LJ, 4x100 and 4x400 and the hurdles are our
strengths, but the world has caught up to us in the 400M
hurdles and is closing in on us in the 4x400.

I ramble on about this, but its sad to see.  Many of 
the best meets are running on their last legs.

And I mourn the lack of folks able to run the banked 
curves.  Oh where or where are you, Martin McGrady, the
Chairman of the Boards.....

Anyway, hope all is well with you Kev.  

JD

Evolution in action...

walking in the footsteps of the dinosaurs,


Metz

    Well, JD, that's life in a global economy.  A few weeks ago I mentioned
    a presentation on sports trends that I saw given by a guy from one of
    the Canadian national sports organizations.  The biggest trend right
    now is the globalization of sports.  There has been a relatively huge
    untapped athletic base until recently.  We're starting to see the
    results of tapping that base -- the African distance runners, Olajowan
    in the NBA, the Chinese runners (better living through chemistry may be
    playing a part, but with that large of a population base, statistically
    speaking they could have tapped into upper tail of the talent curve).

    
    It was ugly...the banked board track had three sections, one on the
    first bank, the other two on the straights, that bounced like a
    trampolin.  It was truly a new experience.  The track was located in
    what appeared to be a horse showplace (rodeo...something or other??).
    It was colder indoors than out.   I only ran the 200M on the track and
    quickly understood why one of my competitors selected the outside lane. 
    He hit the trampoline section of the banked curve first which started it
    bouncing and upset the footing of all others after.  I came out the
    first turn and made up some ground on the straight but didn't negotiate 
    the next turn as well, while the leader was coming off the incline with 
    momentum.  His time 23.9, mine 25.0.  I had beat this gentleman last
    year in an outdoor 200, today he ran better races, he won the 55M
    also with a 6.71 (me 6.81 2nd).
    
    The track wasn't the best but I actually enjoyed the experience... a
    meet with my daughter who did take four firsts (LJ:12'8", SP:22'9", 
    200M:33.1 secs, HJ:3'10") and a 2nd (55M:8.7 secs)... and other Atlanta
    Track Club Masters... and college track athletes and coaches ... and
    youth coaches... and I DID WIN THE LONG JUMP (19'8").
    
    Well, its time to train...I will see my competitor again and I will be
    ready!
    
    Thanks Coach_Kev
    Tony S:
           

    Congrats!!! Go kick that guy's butt!!!

    
    
    	Yabbut Tony,
    
    Congrats on your accomplishments.  Too bad that they didn't take the
    time to level and tighten the joints on the track.  Indoor tracks have
    a bounce but it sounds like this was a bit too much.
    
    Am I correct in guessing that your daughter is ~12-13 years old?
    
    I remain,
    Coach_Kev_who_won't_charge_ya_for_the_advice  ;^)
    
    

    Hey Coach...
    
    She's 9, will be 10 in April...Athletic and full of youthful energy...
    
    The type that when you call her to the 2nd floor from the basement she
    runs the stairs.
    
    Always_grateful_for_advise!-Tony S. 

    
    Kev, the Marv Levy of Sports!!
    
    

    I heard on the news this a.m. that 2 girls teams - one from Weymouth, I
    forgot the other, in track and field were disqualified for not having
    the right uniforms.  Seems the rule is all team players have to have
    the exact uniforms and one girl had spandex on under her shorts and the
    girl from the other team had 3 stripes missing from her uniform.
            
    I know these may sound like 'silly' rules but we in the Worcester Parks
    and Rec.s league faced the same - "Must have exactly the same uniforms"
    rules.  I was hoping to get more details on this latest story...such
    as....did the team player wearing the spandex wear them the whole
    season and is just now being told the rules are being enforced?  Were
    there any 'warnings' or chances to correct the uniforms?
    
    Thanks for your assistance,
    Joyce

    
    The whole team was disqualified, I thought it was only the results of
    those particular athletes that were thrown out.  Did this change in
    recent years?
    
    Marc
    

    The whole team - yup thats what I heard...
    
    but since then I guess both teams have been re-instated - The radio
    station didn't give much detail and I didn't see anything in the
    Worcester T&G
    
    Jt

    
    
    	Yabbut speaking of girls T&F, I heard about a girl, a HS senior
    in Pennsylvania who got impaled in the jaw with a javeliln!
    
    	Other than some plastic surgery, she's supposed to be OK.
    
    

    Small nit:
    
    She was from New Jersey

|   Small nit:
    
|   She was from New Jersey

Gee Dave, are you proud of this?

    
    
    	Yabbut do you think that there should be a ban on assault_javelins?
    
    Remember the other kid about 1 or 2 years ago that got it through the
    neck?  'bout 2 feet of it came through him!
    
    

>    	Yabbut do you think that there should be a ban on assault_javelins?
    
Only if it has a "pistol" grip.

And you only want to ban the Colt JA-15 javelin, not the Ruger Mini-JAV-14.
Ban the AJ-47 Jav, but don't ban the SJS (a chinese made Javelin).

The old, pre-1952 M1 Javelin, while essentially the same, is okay, if
a bit heavier than the newer javelins.


Remember, if javelins are outlawed, only outlaws will have javelins....


'Saw
    

    Emergency meeting of NJ High School Track officials. They want to ban
    the javelin from NJ track meets.

|                               -< Javelins NOT >-
|
|    Emergency meeting of NJ High School Track officials. They want to ban
|    the javelin from NJ track meets.
|

How indicative is this of how wimpy society has become.....What a bunch
of wimps.

Let's BAN the event.  I mean, let's not consider the possibility that


		a) the girl throwing was inept
		b) the girl who got impaled was just f___ing stupid.


Man, that's really rich.


Last week, a dump truck hit a tanker truck in the rear-end in southern CT,
and caused a HUGE explosion.  We'd better hurry up and ban dump trucks
and tanker trucks...  


American Society:  Wimpus Extremis......

	I think they should ban hurdles since I blew out both knees knock...
	I mean, running over them.


	billl

    
    
    	Yabbut donchaknow that Alberto Salazar, former record holder in
    da marathon and various other distance finally, after 10 years won
    another race!
    
    	Seems he won a 50 miler in South Africa.
    
    big deal, I seen Sid run 100 miles!
    
    I remain,
    <blank space>
    Kev
    

    
    
    	Yabbut even thought this is a partially informative note, I gotta
    put it in before the other track follower, Dave Lazarus, beats me to
    it.
    
    Yesterday in a track meet in Switzerland, the world's record for the
    100 meter dash was broken.  The new WW is 9.85 seconds and the old
    record was 9.86 seconds by Car(o)l Lewis.  If'n ya remember, the 
    record was given to Lewis after ol' Ben Johnson was stripped of his
    medals and records.  I didn't catch the name of the new receord holder
    but I think it was a <mumblefratz> Reynolds or something.
    
    I'm sure you'll all thank me for this little tidbit, huh?
    
    I remain,
    wondering if Superman vs. the land speed rocket race would be a dead
    heat?
    Kev
    

Record holder is Burrell (Leroy?) who held the record prior to Lewis.....

    Leroy Burrell 9.85 in Lausanne,Switzerland and he had a lousy start.
    I'm amazed at the longevity these sprinters are showing. Lewis had been
    world class since 1981 and Burrell and Dennis Mitchell have been top
    notch since about 1988. 

    	Burrell looked like he started dead last.
    
    	Also, he does a pretty nice cart wheel.
    
    	Scott

    In a news event that probably only =Bob= and myself care about:
    
    On Friday July 22 at Bislet,Norway - William Sigei of Kenya smashed the
    world record for 10,000 meters with an astounding 26:52,which is 4:20 a
    mile. Running my best 400,I may have been able to stay with him for 400
    meters.

>    In a news event that probably only =Bob= and myself care about:
>    
>    On Friday July 22 at Bislet,Norway - William Sigei of Kenya smashed the
>    world record for 10,000 meters with an astounding 26:52,which is 4:20 a
>    mile. Running my best 400,I may have been able to stay with him for 400
>    meters.

Actually, I'm interested too.

Running my best 400, I'd have been able to stay with him for a whopping
5 meters.  

At that point, I'd have had to elbow the skinny little bastard, and pummel
him into oblivion.  (Those Kenyans may run fast, but they go to pieces
when there's contact involved....)


No, seriously, that is amazing.  The fast mile I ever ran was a 5 minute
mile.   A 4:20 would kill me.  

If a bear was chasing me and someone said I could escape it by running
a 4:20 mile, I'd turned around and take my chances wrasslin' the bear....


'Saw

Amazing.  Hadn't heard that news...

    
    
    	Yabbut 26:52 huh?  Lessee, based on what I think I remember my PR
    being, had I been in that race with him, I figure I only would have
    been lapped about 6.5 times and finished a miniscule mile and a half
    back!
    
    	For you arithmetically challenged, a 4:20 mile is only 4 - 65
    second 11/4 mile laps.
    
    
    I remain,
    hearing the announcer, "William Sigei has showered an left the stadium 
    BUT WAIT!!!!!!  Here comes Kevin Farley with one lap to go!!!!!!"
    :^(
    
    Kev
    

>                      <<< Note 42.289 by CSTEAM::FARLEY >>>
>                        -< Like a CareBear, I care too >-

OOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooohhh.

A Kinder, Gentler, Kev.....


8^)

    	I saw that on ESPN2, I believe. Pretty amazing.
    
    	Saw and the bear wrasslin' is too much.
    
    	Scott

>    
>    	Saw and the bear wrasslin' is too much.
>    

Yep, I don't move too fast, that's for sure...

Actually, one of the props I used to play with on the Wanderers 
wrassled with a bear at an Outdoor Show at the Hartford Civic Center
one time.

The bear was a trained wrasslin' bear, and Doc (the prop) was about
5th back in line.  He noticed that the bear would stand up on his
rear legs, bear hug the wrassler, and then get the guy to quit.

So Doc figured that out and what he managed to do was to hold the
bear's arms apart.  Everytime the bear would try to lower its head to
get some leverage, Doc would head butt the bear right in the snout.

He couldn't pin the bear or get him to submit, so he just played for
the tie.  After a while the bear trainer got tired of Doc head butting the
bear, so he claimed it a draw....

I thought that was pretty cool.....

    
    
    	Yabbut lasted night during dinner we had Ch 4 news on.  I guess
    they're doing a summer thing of "celebrate Massachusetts" by travelling
    around the state and doing "live" beroadcasts.  Lasted night they were
    in Framingham and most of the stuff they covered was about a track meet
    that's held every Wednesday night at Framingham HS for kids.
    
    	I did't see JD though, even though he told us Monday night that
    he's started doing track workouts.
    
    I remain,
    almost tempted....
    Kev
    

I've never been to those track meets, but they are know to get some of the best
young atheletes around.

There is also a series at the Northeastern track in Dedham that attracts 
atheltes ranging from the best of the local runners (Dave Dunham, Steve Sargent
Bob Hodge, etc. [I know, "who?"]), to the elete of the sport (Bill Rogers, 
John Tracey, Lynn Jennings, Joan Samuelson).  It is a fast track, and several 
runners have qualified for he 'lympic Trials there.

I remain
racing tonight (3.5 mile Corp. Challenge in Boston)
=Bob=

>
>I've never been to those track meets, but they are know to get some of the best
>young atheletes around.
>


One of the captains on the rugby team used to love to include intervals
in our fitness training.   I'd have rather had a barium enema (while 
having an un-anesthitized vasectomy).

The next captain preferred fartlek and Indian Runs.

If you EVER want to kill someone in the most heinous way possible, make
them do Indian Runs.....

Fartlek was bearable because it was more applicable to game situations...


'Saw

Okay, I'll ask...

What are Indian Runs?

    Indian Runs are when the last guy in a group has to run to the front.
    
    Intervals,while not always fun,are a must if you want to improve as a
    runner.

RE      <<< Note 42.297 by OPTION::LAZARUS "David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353" >>>

>    Indian Runs are when the last guy in a group has to run to the front.
    
  It seems that this would only work until the guys were in order from fastest
to slowest. How does the slowest guy catch up and pass all the others including
the fastest guy? 

  George

>
>    Indian Runs are when the last guy in a group has to run to the front.
>    

Yeah.  They'd do a variation on this.  You'd form up into groups according
to position.  Each group would be passing a rugby ball around.  The you'd
start jogging in a big circle.

On the whistle, the group the captain called out would have to run up
past the group in front of it.   

If we'd lose the week before, he'd have a variation where he'd call a group
and then yell how many groups to move up -- that was hell on earth.


>    Intervals,while not always fun,are a must if you want to improve as a
>    runner.

Fartleks work as well, I think.  It's the same idea, fast stuff, a little
"rest" (using the term lightly) then fast stuff again.....

  So as long as the average speed was not that fast, it shouldn't be that
hard. Can't the group just slow down a bit to make it easier?

  George

fartlek vs. intervals

While both are good, intervals are better for pure foot speed.  The faster leg
turnover you get, the more natural speed will come to you.  Fartleks are more
of a strength builder.  Often track or distance runers will start their season 
by doing fartleks or hill workouts, and when they have strength built, go
to the track.

=Bob=

	Am I the only one who has no clue what a 'fartlek' is? And is it
	really pronounced fart-lek?

	Sounds like it has something to do with bus seats.


	billl

    This can go here or in Q&A, I don't care...
    
    The first part of the summer, I strained first my left, then my right
    hamstrings.... I bought compression shorts for protection, but for the
    last week I feel like I'm running around with ankle weights.  My
    hamstrings don't seem to loosen up the way I'm used to.  Yes, I'm
    getting old, but is there anything I can do for it?  I can't rest,
    Jimbo won't like that answer.  (haha)..  Same things for my achilles...
    

Walt

Do you strech before and after you play?  I'd definitely make sure you did.  I'd
also chech your shoes - do they give decent support?  Too often cleats/sneakers
are designed for looks, rather than function.

Just a couple of thoughts.

=Bob=

    Nuprin or Advil are great elixirs. Add that to everything =Bob= said.

From the Rugby Files for Walt:


	a) during your off-nights:

		ice them for 20 minutes
		stretch the out, easy, then hard, for 20 minutes
		ice them for 20 minutes

		repeat above three steps later in the evening before
		bed if possible.


	b) make sure to REALLY take about 30 minutes to stretch out
	   before you play.   As the season progresses, you'll have to
	   stretch for longer, probably, because of the beating your
	   muscles take.


	c) the shoes are important, and if the compression shorts are
	   not helping, get two neoprene supports -- they're great cause
	   they keep your hammers warm.



From the Indian Run file for George:

	The faster the clip the better the fitness.  Early on you
	start out more slowly on average.

	The rugby drills were often dictated by the props, the biggest
	slowest guys on the team.   On good days, we'd try to push
	it just a bit to piss off the other players from other positions.

	On the bad days, a couple of us would drop out just short of
	collapse and just jog till the drill was over.   That was 
	never frowned upon, since we'd at least be getting something.


For Billl:

	Fartlek, pronounced "fart-leck" is a Swedish word meaning
	"speed play".

	It's a type of speed drill where you don't run on a track.
	You might do it on a golf course, or football field.
	The captain calls out "Okay, jog....okay 20 yard sprint".

	Our variations included backwards stuff too, and often we'd
	have to pair up and carry someone on our backs -- try sprinting
	someone on your back.....



For BobM:

	Yeah, I agree with what you said -- we needed more of the strength
	aspect than the raw speed, so I guess that's why we did more of it...


'Saw

    Thanks...

Wail this weekend brings me to another of my short (by
Sid Snyder standards) races.

The Baystate Marathon starts at 8:00 sharp on Sunday 
morning, and makes two loops around the lovely Merrimack
River in Tyngsboro, Lowell and Chelmsford, MA.  Training
has gone pretty well, I've recovered from the injuries ok,
so with a little and good weather, I'm hoping for a good
race.

=Bob=

=Bob=

Best o' luck to you and Chris.....  If your weather is anything like what
they'll have down here, you should have a nice day to race.....


'Saw

Thanks 'Saw

If the weather report holds true, is should be partly cloudy,
high 30s at the start.

>
>If the weather report holds true, is should be partly cloudy,
>high 30s at the start.
>

Oh!  Early morning start, I forgot.

Sunday down here is looking at a high of 62 w/ sunshine.  It's perfect
rugby weather, I know that.....



'Saw

|Oh!  Early morning start, I forgot.

Yea, 8:00 - at least it's over early.

BTW - watch out for Chris, I think he's gonna nail one.

|Yea, 8:00 - at least it's over early.
|
|BTW - watch out for Chris, I think he's gonna nail one.

Okay, =Bob=, if you're in today, how did you do?  How'd Chris do?


This is the time I have to bear down in my training for Manchester on 
Thanksgiving Day....  Chris is bringing the beer this year for the post
race libations, because I promised him I'd run.  The Chainsaw NEVER goes
back on his word, so I'd better get down to it.....  (I've been inconsistent
lately).

'Saw

|Okay, =Bob=, if you're in today, how did you do?  How'd Chris do?

Thanks for asking.

Well, at 37 I thought the days or PR (personal records)
were long since over, but not yesterday!  I ran a 2:51:30,
besting my previous fastest by about 20 seconds, and
placing me 30th out of about 500.  Chris ran a terrific
2:45:xx, placing him 17th.

Gory details:
Chris and I met up at the start, and took off together.  Our
goal was to do 6:20-6:30 miles at the beginning.  We did
our first one in 6:05, and made a panic decision to slow
down.  Well we did for the next mile (6:20), but then
fell into a very comfortable pace or 6:10.  We ducked in
and out of packs for most of the first half, and after
a high five with Lindsey and Melanie at the half way point,
I noticed Chris starting to push a little.  I mentioned it
and he kinda say "well yea".  Well, I managed to stay with
him until 16 miles, and at that point, all I had to do was
run 7 minute miles to get a PR.

The day was perfect, my training had gone well, and I had
no major injuries or sickness.  It was nice to have
everything fall into place.  I was/am psyched...

=Bob= 

 super =Bob=. I owe ya a high five!!!!!!

=bob=

send me mail; I keep getting user unknown at your node.

The Crazy Met

|You'll have to come down and race Manchester (4.75 miles) with us
|some year!  8^)

I'd love to, but somebody has to cook the turkey.  (Wifey has
a habit of drying it out).

Thanks

=Bob=

    Congrat's Bob.  BTW a guy here in Hudson came in 26th.
    
    Jimbo

|    Congrat's Bob.  BTW a guy here in Hudson came in 26th.

Thanks Jimbo.  

What's the guy from Hudson's name?

    Brian Walker.

|    Brian Walker.

That's great.  It must have been a breakthrough race for him.

    =Bob=, =Bob= he's our man....

re dry turkey:

	Don't know what to tell you, =Bob=.  I've never tried my hand
	at turkey....8^)

	Perhaps if you gave her EXPLICIT instructions 8^) 8^) 8^)

Well, they ran the Noo Yawk marathon yesterday.

There was some mixup, I gather, between the two Mexican guys who 
were in front.   One of them took a wrong turn, realized it after
about 10 yards, then raced back to catch up. 

Then the news cut to one of them passing the other -- I don't know if
it was the guy who took the wrong turn taking back the lead or what.


The woman who won it was a 21 year old newcomer.  She won't win any
beauty contests, and needs some SERIOUS dental work, but she won....

The top finishing American was Ann Marie Letko, who finished 3rd in the
women's division.   American male distance running is severely hurting....


'Saw

The guy who made the wrong turn (Silva?) did indeed go on to win... 

German (pronounced kind like Herman) Silva of Mexico won
the race.  He and fellow Mexican (mumble-mumble) broke from
the pack late in the race.  In the last mile, they were 
going through Central Park, and there was a break in the 
barracades along the right.  Silva turned right, and 
mumble-mumble went straight.  With around a half mile to
go, Silva made up the 40 meters or so that he lost, and 
overtook his countryman, to win.  

The woman's winner was a 21 year-old Kenyan.  After running
some 6 minute miles (that's just a tad faster than I run,
thus, mid-pack time), she poured it on late, and blew
away the field by close to a minute.  It was quite a triumoph
for her, since she was running her first marathon, and she
was not particularly acclaimed, even in her own country.
The television people pointed out that she was from a 
different tribe than most of her fellow Kenyan runners,
and thus had been snubbed when naming national teams.

Kudos to WPIX, channel 11 (?) in NY, who provided the
best coverage of a marathon on TV that I've ever seen.  
Yes, they had the ever-annoying Marty Liquori, but for the 
most part they covered the race.  They ran all the cut-away 
"human-interst" stuff before the race, so I didn't have to 
watch.  They had great finish line coverage, and Larry Rawson 
is very good.

=Bob=

Silva and mumble-mumble are training partners and I guess these guys
do something awesome like 190 miles weeks (Geez, two Mexican runners
in search of a life?).

When Silva went by his partner, his partner patted him on the back,
as if to say, "okay, bud, you take it...."


Imus, on WFAN, and his two color-analysts, were wondering aloud what would
happen if the two guys came across holding hands, signalling an
intentional tie.

If I remember right, you can't do that any more.....


'Saw

|Imus, on WFAN, and his two color-analysts, were wondering aloud what would
|happen if the two guys came across holding hands, signalling an
|intentional tie.

Unless you can absolutley cross at the same fraction of a second, you can't
do an intentional tie anymore.  They have all kinds of sophisiticated
timing equipment at the finish line, to detect who breaks the line first

Frankly Frank, it was pretty clear that Silva was stronger, and that
mumble-mumble was just hanging on.  I doubt that Silva would have 
let up, so his partner could finish with him, especailly when the 
difference in prize money is several grand.

=Bob=

BTW, Imus' honey, Deidra, ran quite a race. She went from 4:2x lasted year
to 3:32 thised year, that's quite a breakthrough. 

>BTW, Imus' honey, Deidra, ran quite a race. She went from 4:2x lasted year
>to 3:32 thised year, that's quite a breakthrough. 

Yeah, that's a heckuva improvement....


The Sawmain is back on the regular training trail now too....

|The Sawmain is back on the regular training trail now too....

You cain do it 'Saw.  April 1996 is calling you!

||The Sawmain is back on the regular training trail now too....
|
|You cain do it 'Saw.  April 1996 is calling you!


well, I'm just taking it one day (and one pound) at a time, Lord willing,
and doing the best I can.....

8^)

Did run in and finish the Manchester Road Race on Thursday morning.

The race was won by some guy from Zimbabwe, and the women's winner was
Lynn Jennings.

I had a good time, ran a personal worst (which I fully expected to do)
and it was colder than the temp that most of my training had been at.

Plus, it was the largest crowd ever.  For the first time that I can ever
remember in that race it took me an entire two minutes to get to the start
line once the gun went off.   They had over 11,000 people, and the most
that ever participated in the times I ran it were about 8K.  That extra
3000 made it really crowded.....


Chris Melo, ex-Deccie and friend of mine (and =Bob='s) did not run a 
personal best, but did run an average pace of 5:45 a mile, finishing in
27:21.  Overall he finished 126 out of 11,000.   Not bad for recovering
from a marathon 6 weeks ago.....


'Saw

Forgot to mention that for a while in the first mile I ran with some
US Marine ROTC guys.  They were calling cadence, and I easily fell into
their rhythm as I learned some new and 'interesting' cadences.

But the best part was slogan on the back of their t-shirts.  It's going to
be incorporated into the inspirational slogans I use when I train:


	No one cares less about your ego than a Gunny Sgt with a stopwatch!

    I'll bet is was nice to drop off or continue per your choice.
    
    I'll bet for a sawski that Gunny could have given you a good dressing
    down just for practice.
    
    Cadence sung as twilight on a misty evening, especially with DI's
    singing it counter point and the tramp of the heels in synch can be
    quite pleasant even there in jarhead land.

>    I'll bet is was nice to drop off or continue per your choice.

It was.

It was stirring, to say the least.  I forget the whole cadence they
were doing, but it was roughly:


		Born with a rifle in my hand
		  (Born with a rifle in my hand)
		I'm gonna be a shootin' man
		  (I'm gonna be a shootin' man)
		A shootin' man, a shootin' man
		  (A shootin' man, a shootin' man)
		Cause I was born with a rifle in my hand
		  (Cause I was born with a rifle in my hand)

		Born with a Ka-bar in my hand
		  (Born with a Ka-bar in my hand)
		I'm gonna be a stabbin' man
		  (I'm gonna be a stabbin' man)
		A stabbin' man, a stabbin' man
		  (A stabbin' man, a stabbin' man)
		Cause I was born with Ka-bar in my hand
		  (Cause I was born with a Ka-bar in my hand)

    
		etc. etc etc.

>    I'll bet for a sawski that Gunny could have given you a good dressing
>    down just for practice.

Oh, no doubt.  He would have gone up one side of my sorry fat ass and
down the other for any number of things -- except for my haircut.....8^)

    
>    Cadence sung as twilight on a misty evening, especially with DI's
>    singing it counter point and the tramp of the heels in synch can be
>    quite pleasant even there in jarhead land.

Cadence is cool.  You get into it and the rhythm lulls you and you can
probably march for miles and miles.

Kind of like drum beats too.

And bagpipes.  On the way up the hill in the second mile, they always
have a pipe band, and that always helps to get me to the top.....


'Saw

New England was well represented at the US Cross Country Champeenships in
Portland OR, thised past weekend.  While there were no New England men in 
the top 10 (Reuben Reina of Fayetteville AK won in 30:00 for slightly over 
10K), the women were a different story.

Olga Appell of Albuquerque won the women's race in 18:15 (slightly under 6K, 
but the rest of the top ten included:

2. Gwyn Coogan 18:37, Boulder
While she lives in Boulder, Gwyn spent several years around the New England 
race circuit.  She has really broken through the past 3-4 years.  Yes there 
was a time when ol' =Bob= could have her in sight during a race.  She has 
gotten much faster since then.

3. Lynn Jennings 18:41, Newmarket, NH
The all-time great of women's x-country ran well enough to qualify for the
national team.

4. Sinead Delahunty 18:44, Brighton, MA
Don't know much about her, except that she always seems to be up there.

5. Cathy O'Brien 18:45, Durham, NH
The ever-cute Cathy, once considered a top women's marathon prospect, is 
making a come back from several injuries.

9. Kristen Seabury 18:59, Stoneham, MA
Remember that name.  A recent graduate of Univ. of Tennessee (?), she looks 
to be an up-and-coming star in the world of running.  Peerhaps someday she 
will displace you-know-who as the greatest athelete from Stoneham.

10. Lisa Senatore 19:02, Medfield, MA
A terrific showing for a dominant local runner, making a great show in the 
big time. 

  Use this note to discuss Pole Vaulting.

  George

RE Note 208.19 TOOK::HALPIN "Jim Halpin, 

>    	My point was that you can't compare today's PV records, set with
>    pole made from modern materials (what's in a pole these days, probably
>    graphite?), with PV records of 20 years ago, mostly set with aluminum
>    poles. And before that, what, wood poles???

  As I recall up until a short time ago they used fiberglass. I believe they
still do. Before that the poles were metal and before that I believe they were
bamboo.

  George

    
>  As I recall up until a short time ago they used fiberglass. I believe they
>still do. Before that the poles were metal and before that I believe they were
>bamboo.
    
    	Thanks George, I wasn't sure....
    
    

See 208.24.

The Crazy Met

Whatta wisenheimer...

    Former Digital runner,  Bob McCullough did the Boston Marathon
    yesterday in 3:00:32 (less any delay time that he lost at the start).  

    
    
       Way to go BobM

    Considering it probably took him 10 minutes to get to the START,
    that means a sub-3 hour marathon for =bob=.  
    
    
    billl

    Don't know if this is the place for this, but does anyone know if there
    is still a Digital Running club (or whatever it might be called).
    
    Steve

>
>    Don't know if this is the place for this, but does anyone know if there
>    is still a Digital Running club (or whatever it might be called).
>    

It was in existence at least until Bob McCullough left a couple of month's
ago, because he used to belong.

I'll try and send him some internet mail and see if he has a name you might use
as a contact.....


'Saw

    Digital Running Club is still around
    
    contact Brian Walker asdg::walker
    
    Jimbo

You can also try

	CIMNET::GILL

  There's also a runner's notes conference at NAC::RUNNING_CLUB

	Keith