Conference hbahba::cam_sports

re: .0 contents - be careful what you ask for, you may get it.
I wish :-)


The Crazy Met

    Ewing:M.V.P.  No Way!
    
    SHAQ eats him up every time they play.
    
    
    JORDAN the eternal M.V.P.
    

    Hey, I thought April fools was over...
    
    REK
    
    I would like to see the head-to-head stats between Shak and Ewing...

Wouldn't call it lunch-eating.  These two have played quite well against each
other, although O'Neal has shot very poorly against Ewing (<40%) and neither
has shot fouls well.  Ewing's averaged 26.8 points against Shaq, while Shaq's
averaged 21.0 points but has more blocks and rebounds.  All in all, pretty
even, with the edge going to Ewing because of his scoring.

j.

Team Player             PO GP MIN   FG  FGAT  FG%   FT  FTAT  FT%  
---- ------------------ -- -- ---- ---- ---- ----- ---- ---- ----- 
NYK  Patrick Ewing      C   4  162   47  107 0.439   13   20 0.650 
ORL  Shaquille O'Neal   C   4  160   33   83 0.398   18   33 0.545 
                                                                   
         OREB DREB REBT ASST  PF  STL   TO  BLKS PTS  3PTR 3PAT PPG  DPPG
         ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Ewing       7   45   52    7   19    3   15    9  107    0    0 26.8 44.5
O'Neal     16   42   58    7   20    3   14   19   84    0    0 21.0 42.8

    ouch Knicks lose to Indiana. Bulls win. Teams are tied at 55-22 with 5
    games left. knicks have 3 H, 2 A; Bulls have 2 H 3 A. Knicks away games
    are Charlotte and Philly. Last game of the season could be a doozy. I
    think a few years ago Celtics and Hawks met in the last game of the
    season that decided home court.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Rivers was last seen picking on Isiah, causing him to get ejected from
    the game on Saturday.
    

    Way I saw that replay Isiah was stopming all over Rivers.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Looks like the Bulls took all the hype out of the final game yesterday.

    That was the national feed... see what led up to it?
    

    re: .9
    
    Only saw the highlights (lowlights?), not the whole sequence.
    
    re: .8
    
    Last game could still mean something even if both teams win there next
    3 games. It all depends on what the tiebreaker is after conference
    record. If the Knicks win that tiebreaker then they only need to win
    there next 3 games and Sunday's game would mean something in the mental
    game but nothing in standing in the conference.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    If the bulls and Knicks win all there remaining games and meet in the
    last game to decide best record, the bulls will get the #1 seed. 
    According to NBC the #3 tie breaker is record VS playoff teams for
    this season and the bulls win that tie breaker.  So there still
    something to play for.  The Knicks play Miami tonight and NJ on
    wednesday.  They should win both, but Im hoping Miami can do the
    bulls a favor and pull this win out of a hat.  Plus NJ is still in
    danger, they could still take the #4 (very doubtful) but if they
    were to lose there last 3 (New York, Orlando and Detroit) they could
    fall as low as the 8th seed ????  Chicago has no easy stretch either.
    Philly tonight (should be a win) but last 3 are Detroit, Charlotte and
    then NY.  This can still go either way,  I believe Cleveland #3 and
    Boston #4 are the only spots that wont change (and NJ at #5).
    
    This last week will be intresting in the east, I dont think Orlando or
    detroit have much hope left being 2 full games back on Ind/Atl.
    
    Will be a fun last week....
    							M.air.B

Jeff or Mike, can you post the records of the Knicks and Bulls against the
other teams in the league?

M.air thanks for providing the 3rd tie-breaker. A game that means something
on Sunday would be awesome, but if the Knicks lead by 2 games at that point
I won't complain. 

The Crazy Met

    Remember the bulls will be playing this week without Pippen....
    If they fall behind I bet Pippen will stay out untill the playoff's
    start, and jordan will see limited action down the stretch.  IT will
    be intresting, if Chicago wins tonight, they can watch tomorow and
    see how NY does against NJ.  If they lose to NJ then the bulls will
    play more aggresive down the stretch.  Without pippen home court now
    becomes more difficult.  
    
    Also I think whoever ends up facing Indiana will have the easier road
    to round 2,  I hope its chicago, Id like to see Charlotte and Atlanta
    make it thru round 1 (Unless its against chicago :-)...
    								MairB

>    If they fall behind I bet Pippen will stay out untill the playoff's
>    start, and jordan will see limited action down the stretch.  IT will

The Hornets faithful certainly hope this is the case Friday night when
the Bulls come to town. 

TTom

re: .14

so do Knick fans.

The Crazy Met

I heard on Imus this morning that there is a lot of controversy over the
cartoon in the Daily News this morning.   I have not seen this cartoon,
but according to Imus, the cartoon portrayed the Knicks in a manner which
made them "look like the New York Sambos".   Imus said that the only
other racist thing missing from the picture was them dribbling a watermelon
instead of a basketball.

Has anyone seen this cartoon?  Is it as bad as he said it was?  


'Saw

    
    Knicks beat Miami 109-87 tonight. Chicago keeps pace by massacring the
    76ers by 124-94. Pistons lose. Orlando wins. Hawks beat the Pacers.
    
    The Cray Met
    

NBA tie breaker rules:

If 2 teams tie:

	1. Results of games against each other
	2. Winning percentage within conference
	3. Winning percentage within division (if in same division)
	4. Winning percentage against playoff opponents (own conf.)
	5. Point differential in games against each other
	6. Better point differential between offense and defense

If more than 2 teams tie:

	1. Best cumulative winning percentage in games involving
		all teams tied
	2. Winning percentage within conference
	3. Winning percentage withing division (if in same division)
	4. Winning percentage against playoff opponents (own conf.)
	5. Best point differntial between offense and defense

	Note: If a multiple team tie is reduced to a 2 team tie at
		any point with the above, go to rules of 2 team tie

Knicks massacre the Nets 105-74. Next game is in Philadelphia on Friday.
Bulls play Detroit tonight. Hopefully Detroit will want nothing better than
to deny Chicago the #1 spot in the East. I won't complain if the Knicks
have the #1 seed wrapped up by Sundays game against Chicago.

The Crazy Met

    Just out of curiousity, what is the road record of the Knicks vs.
    Eastern playoff teams?  I have this much info, maybe TCM can fill in
    the blanks...
    
                   Overall      Road             Home
                   -------      ----             ----
    Chicago         2-1         2-0 (1 w/o MJ)   0-1  (1 to go)
    Cleveland       3-1        
    Boston          4-1        
    New Jersey      4-1        
    Charlotte       3-1        
    Atlanta         2-2         
    Indiana         3-1         1-1              2-0
    --------------------------------------------------
                   21-8         

Here is my best recollection. Chicago data in .20 is incorrect. Knicks won that home
game by 30+ points. They lost in Chicago in December. Their 4 home losses
have all been to playoff teams. Mike, do you have the data for Chicago
against these teams (just total, no need for home and away)

                   Overall      Road             Home
                   -------      ----             ----
    Chicago         2-1         1-1 (1 w/o MJ)   1-0  (1 to go)
    Cleveland       3-1         1-1              2-0
    Boston          4-1         2-0              2-1
    New Jersey      4-1         2-0              2-1 (might be other way?)
    Charlotte       3-1         2-0              1-1
    Atlanta         2-2         1-1              1-1
    Indiana         3-1         1-1              2-0
    --------------------------------------------------
                   21-8        10-4             11-4

    If what Mike H. posted is correct than the Knicks are 21-8 against
    playoff opponents, Bulls are 19-9. If both win tonight and Bulls win
    on Sunday, both would have identical overall records, identical
    in-conference records, and idenitcal (21-9) records against playoff
    opponents. Unless the Bulls win by a very large margin on Sunday Knicks
    would seem to win that tie breaker. Also, if Chicago loses to Charlotte
    tonight then it doe not matter what the Knicks do in their next 2 games
    since they would end up with a better record against playoff opponents
    and could do no worse than be in a tie in the overal, head to head,
    conference records.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Knicks beat 76ers 99-84 while the Bulls lose to Charlotte by 1. Game on
    Sunday between the Knicks and Bulls thankfully means nothing; sure it
    would be nice for the Knicks to get 60 wins, but even nicer for Ewing
    and Company to get some rest before the playoffs begin.
    
    Chicago still has to be at least a co-favorite to win the Eastern
    Conference playoffs. As I said elsewhere the Knicks chance to beat the
    Bulls depended on having home court. In addition they will only have to
    play Cleveland or Chicago, not both; assuming form holds for the 1st
    round. Knicks could play Indiana, Orlando, or Detroit. If Indiana wins
    tonight they get the spot; Orlando needs a wind and Pacers loss;
    Detroit needs the other 2 to lose and then win tomorrow against the
    Nets. Nets basically need a win to get the 5th seed.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Knicks get to the 60 win mark by beating the Bulls 89-84 in the season finale.
Hopefully they do not pull a Broons in the first round of the playoffs.
Knicks play Indiana in the first round. Game 1 is on Friday night.

The Crazy Met

    Has there been 2 60+-game winners in the finals since the
    Celtics-Lakers matchups?  I'm not sure if the Bulls and Blazers did it
    when they recently met.
    
    A Suns-Knicks matchup would also be interesting in the fact that nobody
    other than the coaches and Ainge have finals experience.

I think Pistons-Blazers finals was between 2 teams that had 60 or more wins.

The Crazy Met

    I thought the Blazers won 59 that year?  Didn't they win 60 the
    year Los Angeles knocked them out?
    
    				/Don

>    I thought the Blazers won 59 that year?  Didn't they win 60 the
>    year Los Angeles knocked them out?
    
 
 another reason to hate the Cryblazers(tm)...

 mike

    Now that I have all the date, here are the numbers:
    
                       Overall      	Road            Home
                       -------      	----            ----
        Chicago         3-1         	1-1		2-0
        Cleveland       3-1		1-1		2-0
        Boston          4-1		2-0		2-1
        New Jersey      4-1		2-1	        2-0 
        Charlotte       3-1		2-0		1-1
        Atlanta         2-2		1-1		1-1
        Indiana         3-1         	1-1             2-0
        ---------------------------------------------------
                       22-8            10-5            12-2
    
                       Overall      	Road            Home
                       -------      	----            ----
        Phoenix         1-1         	0-1		1-0
        Houston         1-1		0-1		1-0
        Seattle         1-1		0-1		1-0
        Portland        1-1		0-1	        1-0 
        San Antonio     2-0		1-0		1-0
        Utah            1-1		0-1		1-0
        L.A. Clippers   0-2         	0-1             0-1
        L.A. Lakers     2-0             1-0             1-0
        ---------------------------------------------------
                        9-7             2-6             7-1

Not starting a note about a team is no proof that someone is not a 
life-long fan. I don't see a Yankees note but I still believe that Chappy
is a lifelong, albeit misguided, Yankees fan.

The Crazy Met

    
    
        Yo Crazy Cubfan.
    
          Check note 45.    I hate proving a Met fan wrong. :-)

Try to find a note about the Boston Celtics. I guess Tommy and 
others in here are not life long Celtic fans.

The Crazy Met

    
    re .33
    
    A team as great as the Celtics can't possibly be covered by one
    measly note so we have a whole damned conference!
    
    BTW - TCM, don't tell me that you're gonna be the first to declare 
          yourself a "lifelong Knicks fan". 

    I've been a Knicks fan all my life.  Dat's da troof.  Favorite games
    sitting up in the rafters as a kid were against Buffalo and of course,
    Baltimore....
    
    JD

    
      They's coming outta da woodwork!

    
    
        I've always liked Patrick Ewing.... :-)
    
    
    
    Chappy

real weak excuse Tommy.

Nope I'm the second to say that I have always been a Knicks fan - JD
beat me to the punch. Favorite games were watching the Knicks play
the Bucks while sitting in the blue seats; this was when Milwaukee
still had Alcindor/Jabbar.

Growing up in NYC and being a Knicks fan is a logical scenario; oops sorry
Tommy, I forgot that this is ::sports and logic has no place here.

The Crazy Met

    
      Weren't no one declaring themselves "lifelong Knicks fans" when
     they stunk worse than the stench of urine that hangs over Manhattan
     like Pigpen's cloud of dust. Now they're the hottest ticket in
     town and the stars are out at night in MSG. Now, what does logic
     tell me?
       

	If'n yunz read TCM's football notes lately he's poised to be
	a "lifelong" Jets fan, too.


	billl

'ya know when the Pirates were stinking it up in the NL East as were the
Penguins, I don't remember Bill doing a whole lot of talking.

The Crazy Met

>      Weren't no one declaring themselves "lifelong Knicks fans" when
>     they stunk worse than the stench of urine that hangs over Manhattan
>     like Pigpen's cloud of dust. Now they're the hottest ticket in
>     town and the stars are out at night in MSG. Now, what does logic
>     tell me?
    
    that Noo Yawk is the Hollywood of the East.

    	Did you see all the celebrities that were "life long Knickerbocker
    fans" at the Garden for Sunday's game with the Bulls?  Guess they
    were giving those front row seats to charities when the Knickerbockers
    stank.
    
    				/Don

    I seem to recall that the Celtics weren't all that successful at
    seeling out their games until Bird came along and the yuppies
    gravitated to the Celtics.
    
    The Crazy Met

    Hey TCM,
    
    your mail router screwed up or sumpthin???
    
    Tried to send ya mail to axe ya sumthin and keep getting it back
    undeliverable, and with some messages about something or other being
    unbalanced.
    
    
    JaKe
    

	re:.41

	Could it be that he didn't work at DEC at the time????


	billl

I'll second Billl on that one.

I don't know how long he's been at DEC, but he ain't been active in SPORTS
for all that long, so you cain't ping on him on that score, TCC....


'Saw

    
    Yabbut,
    
    FWIW, hth, snort schnot skleps, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah
    
    Does 6-27-88 as a DoH mean anything to anybody?
    
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    not only yer social director BUT also a bit o' a historian!
    Kev
    

    
    	What the hail is a "Knickerbocker" anyway?  Aren't they those
    	cute little pants that golfer's wear?
    
    Claybone

>    	What the hail is a "Knickerbocker" anyway?  Aren't they those
>    	cute little pants that golfer's wear?
    
Actually, in the early part of this century, knickers used to be required
wearing for young men.  When they reached a certain age they were allowed
to wear long pants.

I have photographs of my dad wearing knickers as a young lad.



The origin of the word Knickerbocker, as far as I can trace it with my
references here, is from Washington Irving.  Irving's "History of
New York" was penned under the name Diedrich Knickerbocker, a supposed 
Dutch author.

Since the Dutch settled lots of New York, the word has been associated with
them....


hth,
'Saw

    Tommy -
    
    Sorry son, but I've always been a Knicks fan.  You cain check past
    version of Sports.  When they sucked, they sucked, and I was a fan. 
    Hated some of the bonehaid drafts they made.   
    
    Unlike other noters, I didn't switch allegiances when I moved to a new
    part of the country - it would have been *easy* for me to claim
    allegiance to the Lawwy Biwd, et al, Celtics during my 12 years in
    Beantown - they were good and da Knicks sucked.   I stuck with them.
    Its nice to see them competitive and winning - but until they get a
    banner, it is just that - nice.  
    
    Why should I switch Tommy?   It took da Giants 30 years to win a NFL
    champeenship.  I'm still waiting on da Rangers and da Red Sox.  Mets
    had 17 years between 'ships, and its been 19 years for da Knicks.
    
    Heck, I called my father from Launceston, Tasmania, to get the final
    score of the Bears/Giants playoff back in 90 (Jints, 31-3, FWIW) -woke
    him up - but hey, that's da way it is...
    
    JD

    
    Tommy -
    
    Also, agree on ya about the hottest ticket syndrome.  Kind of like how
    the Boston Garden became "hot" and "Popular" with Larry, Kevin and da
    rest.  Don't remember it being packed for bob McAdoo and Curtis Rowe...
    
    JD

I'll vouch for JD being a Ka-nicks fan.   As long as I've known him,
which is 7 years now, he's been Ka-nicks, Rangers, Giants and Red Sox
fan.....

'Saw

    
    Mike Turncoat Heiser making a note in here.  I remember back when Mike
    was a Celtics fan - of course, the Celts were winning Champeenships
    then.  Celts have gone downhill, and the Suns uphill, and amazingly,
    Mike ahs seen the light and is now a long time Suns fan.   What team
    will be nexted?
    
    JD

    
      re .51 & .52
    
       Sure you were. You and the rest of the New York glitterati. You 
     just never felt compelled to mention it until they became title 
     contenders. Ain't that right, "son"?
    
    
     BTW - I had to fight off the urge to point you to note 73.10009 of
           ALPHAX::SPORTS_91.

>    Unlike other noters, I didn't switch allegiances when I moved to a new
>    part of the country - it would have been *easy* for me to claim
    >
>    champeenship.  I'm still waiting on da Rangers and da Red Sox.  Mets

    Mike -
    
    Been a Red Sox fan since birth.   My father was a Sox fan - hated the
    Yankees - same as I do.   Stems from My dad's fther and my father being
    NL fans - esp. Brooklyn Dodgers, and thereby hating Yankees - both were
    big Teddy Ballgame fans.   I was raised a Sox fan.   Even made trips to
    Fenway to see games.   Always went tothe Stadium to see the Sox and da
    Yanks....
    
    Of course, you might have been raised a Suns fan...
    
    JD

>    Mike Turncoat Heiser making a note in here.  I remember back when Mike
>    was a Celtics fan - of course, the Celts were winning Champeenships
>    then.  Celts have gone downhill, and the Suns uphill, and amazingly,
>    Mike ahs seen the light and is now a long time Suns fan.   What team
>    will be nexted?

    There goes JD again, trying to negate the fact that he's a New Yorker
    rooting for the Red Sox, despite his claims of never changing allegiances 
    when moving.

    Nothing has changed here.  It would be awesome to have a Celtics-Suns 
    rematch in the finals.  I've supported both teams since I moved here.

    
      For the record, I see absolutely nothing wrong with my homey,
     Mike Heiser, being a Suns fan as well as a Celtics fan. The Suns
     are *the* team in Phoenix. If you live there you  either gotta love 
     'em or hate 'em (I'm assuming). Mike happens to love 'em. Nothing
     wrong with that. Unlike, all the faux Knicks fans coming out of the
     woodwork.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Thanks Tommy.  And just to elaborate on what he said, a quick browse
    thru the archived versions of this conference and the CELTICS
    conference show that I've been supporting both teams for as long as
    these conferences have been online.  
    
    You didn't see me jumping on the Suns bandwagon now that they're a
    contender.

re: .45

JaKe,

the problem is that in your personal name in mail you had a :-) or
something like that. When VMSmail sends stuff out it pusts a set of ( )
around the personal name. My machine then sees a set of unbalanced
( ) and barfs. I used my workaround this morning so it should have stopped
bouncing. The kicker is I get your message over and over again as well.

The Crazy Met

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (DEAN SCHABNER, UPI Sports Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.sports.top
Subject: Ewing's eyes are on NBA Championship

	NEW YORK (UPI) -- A small hand rested on Patrick Ewing's shoulder when
he was asked about his prospects for winning the league's MVP award.
	This was on a Sunday in March, just after the New York Knicks had
overwhelmed the San Antonio Spurs for their ninth straight victory.
Ewing, as he typically had done since mid-January, had dominated the
opposing center when it mattered most. On this Sunday, though, the
opponent was David Robinson, who with Ewing and Hakeem Olajuwon, is one
of the three elite centers in the NBA.
	Robinson is quick, graceful and strong, but Ewing had been quicker
and stronger, and Robinson's grace was lost the first time the Knick
seven-footer left him flat-footed on a drive to the hole.
	In the locker room, Ewing deflected questions about his performance
against Robinson to talk about the team. Now the MVP question was
brought up. Ewing looked at his nine-year-old son standing beside his
locker. The boy paid no attention to the crowd of reporters hanging on
his father's response. And Ewing seemed to consider the boy more than
the notebooks, the cameras and microphones.
	``Ever since high school or college, I don't get voted for anything.
When you have to vote me into something, I don't get the recognition,''
he said. ``But I don't worry about that.''
	It was not a complaint. What Ewing, who finished the season with
averages of 24.2 points and 12.1 rebounds, wants most is something he
and his teammates can only get for themselves.
	``My job is to win a championship,'' he said. ``I've been playing
eight years and I haven't won a championship. That's my goal.''
	It's a goal that is within his reach for the first time in his
career. Team president Dave Checketts and coach Pat Riley got busy in
the offseason, bringing in seven new players while hanging on to the
core of what the Knicks did best last season. Added to the hardnosed
defense of Charles Oakley, John Starks and Anthony Mason, came savvy
veteran point guard Doc Rivers, 20-point scoring forwards Charles Smith
and Tony Campbell, sharpshooter Rolando Blackman, rookie shooting guard
Hubert Davis and veteran center Herb Williams.
	It hasn't all worked out. Blackman, injured most of the season, has
provided only glimpses of the kind of player he was with Dallas. Only in
the final weeks of the season did Smith begin to seem comfortable in an
offense that was not centered around him. Campbell never seemed to fit
in and Davis, despite his sweet touch from outside, has earned only spot
playing time.
	But New York was able to win with defense early in the season, even
when Ewing's sore knees limited him to fallaway jumpers and the Knicks
seemed to have to re-learn how to score on every new posession.
	Gradually, though, the offense has come up to the level of the
defense. Starks is now a genuine threat, a player who cast off much of
his former wildness with the ball, without losing his creativity.
Oakley, making defenses pay for leaving him to concentrate on Smith,
Mason or Ewing, has flourished by hitting his unexpectedly soft jumper,
and grabbing any rebound that gets away from Ewing.
	They stumbled through a stretch when the Knicks lost four of six --
capped by a loss to Houston in which they squandered a 13-point fourth
quarter lead -- when their lead over New Jersey in the Atlantic Division
shrank to one-half game. Since then, the Knicks went on a 38-8 run to
the best record in the Eastern Conference, 60-22, assuring them of the
homecourt advantage at least through the East finals. Against any
Western Conference team but Phoenix, New York will hold home court in
the NBA Finals.
	Just as importantly, the Knicks' record means they will not have to
face Chicago or Cleveland until the Eastern Conference finals.
	Ewing's part in the season-ending run cannot be overestimated. He and
Oakley called a team meeting after the loss to the Rockets. In that
meeting, the two co-captains said there could be no more excuses for
losing. Ewing has backed up his talk with action. In 26 of those 46
games he led the Knicks in both scoring and rebounding. He was was the
high scorer in nine others and leading rebounder six times.
	``He's simply one of the best in this game,'' said Riley, who says he
would not have taken the Knicks job if Ewing were not on the team. ``His
team is flourishing; he's flourishing. I've always said I thought he was
the best center in the league.''
	For the first time he has a team around him, with a coach who has the
respect of his players. The Knicks pass the ball, they look for one
another on the break, they move without the ball, and when the ball goes
to Ewing in the post, they find positions where he can get the ball back
to them when he's double- and triple-teamed.
	``Everybody contributed,'' has become Ewing's mantra, when he's asked
about his team-high statistics night after night.
	For the first time in his pro career, his standard response rings
true. As a result, for the first time in his career, he has a shot at
what he wants most of all.

    
        Patrick deserves the MVP. Alonzo deserves the ROY. Neither
       one will get an award.

    Mike -
    
    I was a Sox fan in New York.  Were you a Suns fan in Massachusetts?  No
    you weren't.  Nice try though.  
    
    MY backyard has always been clean.  Perhaps you should look out the
    window at yers....
    
    JD

    
    Yabbut anybody know Dan Rowan or Dick Martin?
    
    Cain they be persuaded to give Patty and 'zo "The Fickle Finger of
    Fate" award?
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    sweet as a peom by Henry Gibson!
    Kev
    

    
      My friend Cliff who lives on Looonng Island and works in Manhattan
     tells me that even earlier this year getting tickets to a Knicks game
     wasn't much of a problem but toward the end of the season the scalpers
     were getting exorbitant prices (that's NY exorbitant not your average
     everyday exorbitant). This was after all of the yuppies and pseudo-
     "lifelong Knicks fans" realized "Gee whiz, these guys are good!" Kind 
     of sad that the biggest city on the East Coast, a city of 16 million 
     that to a lot of folks in the rest of the country *IS* the East Coast 
     so closely mirrors the kind of band-wagon jumping that we see out in
     tooty-fruity land with the haphazard Lakers and their long-gone celeb
     fans. I always wondered why there were so many empty seats in MSG,
     given the size of metro NY, when the Knicks stank. I guess it's be-
     cause people down there don't really want to see the Knicks or even
     basketball. They just want to be at an event. There probably ain't
     more than a handful of *real* Knicks fans on the entire planet. I know
     I've never met one.

    
    Same thing happened with the Yanks and Mets, Tommy.  It's a crying
    shame...
    
    glenn
    

>    I was a Sox fan in New York.  Were you a Suns fan in Massachusetts?  No
>    you weren't.  Nice try though.  
    
    In 1986 I was.

re: .66

What is fasciniating about the Knicks and Rangers is that the crowds
at Knick games tends to mirror how well the team is playing. Rangers games
are almost always sold out or real close to it. Even during some of their
worst seasons in the 1980's it was not easy getting tickets to the Rangers.
Knick tickets were tough to come by in some years, but with enough planning
one could generally get tickets as long as it was not against Boston, LA,
Milwaukee and Baltimore in the early-mid 1970's.

The Crazy Met

    How does Ewing's stats compare to Hakeem?
    

    
     re .69
    
     It may be because hockey fans are more rabid (pun fully intended)
    than b-ball fans. A while back, when KC Jones was coaching, I was 
    lucky enough to get seats four rows back opposite the visitors bench.
    At one point in the game a guy behind me taps me on the shoulder
    and asks me who the curly-haired guy sitting next to KC was. It
    was Jimmy Rodgers who had been a Celts assistant for about five
    years by then. A real fan that guy was. There ought to be a law re-
    quiring some kind of test for seats that good.

> There ought to be a law requiring some kind of test for seats that good.

But there is such a law - in fact 2 of 'em. 

1. who you know
2. how much cash you have

I remain your friendly neigberhood shyster, um I mean lawyer.

The Crazy Met

    
    Yabbut remember
    
    Ken Dryden is a lawyer.  He did it in the post-seasons.
    
    hth(tm)
    
    I remain,
    trivially slithering away
    Kev
    
    

> can I say this in *THIS* note?

this IS ::sports

The Crazy Met

    To repeat someone else's question:
    
        How do Ewing's stats compare to Hakeem ?
    
    I honestly believe that the MVP should go to Hakeem this year.  While
    Ewing has a supporting cast, Hakeem does not.  Heck, even the Shaq has
    stated that he has always wanted to be like Hakeem.  But the Houston
    market is not as big as NY, and we all know what market the NBA caters
    to.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R. 

The Ewing-Hakeem argument doesn't matter since Barkley will walk away
with the MVP this year.

The Crazy Met

    
     Pretty valid there, John D. However, even playing in Hype City
    won't help Patrick. Hakeem can forget about it, too for that matter 
    because the NBA knows the value and the draw of star power and right 
    now Chaz the Spaz is a bigger star and draw than either one of 'em. 
    Now, if'n them New Yorkers had been a little more knowledgeable and 
    if they had jumped on the bandwagon a little sooner things might 
    be different.

Tommy, enjoying yourself??

The Crazy Met

Hakeem, easily:

              Ewing            Hakeem
G           81                82
Min       3003    37.07     3242    39.54
Fg         779     9.62      848    10.34
Fga       1550    19.14     1603    19.55
Fg%      0.503             0.529
Ft         400     4.94      444     5.41
Fta        556     6.86      570     6.95
Ft%      0.719             0.779
3Fg          1     0.01        0     0.00
3Fga         7     0.09        8     0.10
Orb        191     2.36      283     3.45
Reb        980    12.10     1068    13.02
Ast        151     1.86      291     3.55
Stl         74     0.91      150     1.83
To         265     3.27      262     3.20
Blk        161     1.99      342     4.17
Pf         286     3.53      305     3.72
Pts       1959    24.19     2140    26.10
Ppg      24.19             26.10

  >> Tommy, enjoying yourself??
    
     I guess that *is* about enough. Isn't it?

    .77
    
    Charles B. also has a supporting caste, in fact it is tremendous in
    comparison to Hakeem's.  Charles did what he always does, while Hakeem
    has raised his game to an incredible level this year.  Without Charles
    the Suns would have still had a better record than many teams, while
    Houston without Hakeem would rival Dallas for futility.
    
    What a bummer that the award does not go to the Most Valuable Player,
    but to the most Market Valued Player !!!!
    
    John "D Cowboys" R. 

Wow,

That's not even close. Hakeem beat Ewing in every category. Of course we
all know that Charles "Mr Manners" Barkley is going to win the thing...

How about posting Barkley's season stats....


Metz

re: .82

Not having a supporting cast is likely to have given Hakeem the edge in
pts and reb; he had to do more of the shooting, etc.

The Crazy Met

    
>>( ) and barfs. I used my workaround this morning so it should have stopped
>>bouncing. The kicker is I get your message over and over again as well.

>>The Crazy Met
    
    Yeah, I came in here today and had something like 28 new mail messages,
    and 26 of them were the "undeliverable" message I sent ya.
    
    JaKe
    

Here's the 4 leaders for the MVP:

          Ewing             Hakeem            Barkley           Jordan 
G           81                82                76                78
Min       3003    37.07     3242    39.54     2859    37.62     3067    39.32
Fg         779     9.62      848    10.34      716     9.42      992    12.72
Fga       1550    19.14     1603    19.55     1376    18.11     2003    25.68
Fg%      0.503             0.529             0.520             0.495
Ft         400     4.94      444     5.41      445     5.86      476     6.10
Fta        556     6.86      570     6.95      582     7.66      569     7.29
Ft%      0.719             0.779             0.765             0.837
3Fg          1     0.01        0     0.00       67     0.88       81     1.04
3Fga         7     0.09        8     0.10      220     2.89      230     2.95
Orb        191     2.36      283     3.45      237     3.12      135     1.73
Reb        980    12.10     1068    13.02      928    12.21      522     6.69
Ast        151     1.86      291     3.55      385     5.07      428     5.49
Stl         74     0.91      150     1.83      119     1.57      221     2.83
To         265     3.27      262     3.20      233     3.07      207     2.65
Blk        161     1.99      342     4.17       74     0.97       61     0.78
Pf         286     3.53      305     3.72      196     2.58      188     2.41
Pts       1959    24.19     2140    26.10     1944    25.58     2541    32.58
Ppg      24.19             26.10             25.58             32.58

    
> Not having a supporting cast is likely to have given Hakeem the edge in
> pts and reb; he had to do more of the shooting, etc.
    
    But not the advantage in FG%, FT%, assists (most impressive!), blocks,
    steals...
    
    glenn
    

     I'd lean towards Hakeem, but it will go to Barkley. He's got more media
     hype with his antics and quotes, and the media will reward him
     because of that.
    
     For MVP sake, I'd say Hakeem, Wilkins, Shaq, Ewing, Barkeley, Jordan
      

    Thanks for all the stats.  So who do we now consider as the MVP ?
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    They owe to Charles anyway for stiffing him in '89 when he
    single-handedly lead Philly to the Atlantic Division crown.

Mike did you feel that way in 1989 when Barkley was on the 76ers??

Who won it in 1989 - Magic??

The Crazy Met

    Jordan won it and yes I felt Charles deserved it that year.  I could
    probably even find a note in the archives where I said so.

    
    
    
         Bottom line. Who's the best player in the NBA? Who has the best
    all around stats in those stats that were shown? Who would you want
    taking the last shot in a game(honestly not cuz your a Sun fan or Knick
    fan or whatever)
    
           I say.
    
    
             Your Scoring Leader.
    
    
               Sir MICHAEL JORDAN
    
             And when all's said and done this year He will be wearing his
    3rd ring. And I'm not a Bull Fan

    Taking the last shot makes him a clutch player, but not necessarily the
    MVP.  Best player doesn't mean the same as MVP either...

    
    
         Where would Phoenix be w/o Charles...... 4th place in the west
          "     "    NY      "      Patrick       5th              East
                     Chi            Michael       5th              East
                     Hou            Hakeem        7th              West
    
         The point I'm trying to make is how can everyone just write off
    Michael just because the Bulls have slipped? Don't forget injuries
    hurt Chicago alot this year.
    
    Chappy

    How can Michael be ahead of Hakeem, based on your logic?  The Rockets
    are a #2 seed now...

    Chaps,  in regards to Jordan we go back to supporting cast issue. 
    Jordan has Popeye, and Grant to help.  As far as the last shot...
    if the refs called the game the way the rules state, you might 
    not automatically choose Jordan.  Jordan gets away with a lot, 
    because he is the Poster-boy for the NBA.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    

The NBA MVP will go the same way as the ROY which is to follow the media
hype. The winners will be Sir Charles and Shaq. Neither is undeserving.
Nor are the other candidates.

Who made the most contribution, who plays on the otherwise worst team,
who means more, who's the best and all that stuff really doesn't matter,
except possibly to the fans.

TTom

    
    
         Your right TTom. The media already has given the awards to Shaq
    and Charles. So it is a moot point. If they weren't given so much hype
    by the media, IMO Alonzo and Michael deserve it.
    
    
    Chappy

Jordan's biggest problem is that he's being compared to himself. Lasted
year he led the Bulls to the best record in the league. This year he
didn't accomplish that. In some ways, everyone's become used to his level
of performance.

TTom

    
    I don't think Jordan even cares that much anymore.  Three in a row
    would mean more.   I think Hakeem is having more of an MVP year
    considering his high level of play and his supporting cast.  He's doing
    it all.  Barkley just seems due after all these years.  I think the
    vote will be closer than people think.  

    I dont get to see much of Houston but if his supporting cast is as
    bad as it sounds then I would think most teams would be double and
    triple teaming Akeem, if thats true and he still posted those number
    then Id say give it to akeem.  My second choice would be a toss up
    between Michael and Barkley.  I think Barkley has had a great year,
    but is he in fact MVP, can they win without him, can they win without
    KJ ?  Jordan (the bulls that is) have proven they cannot win without
    him (1 win in the history of bulls without jordan, and that was VS
    Dallas this year, so put an * beside that one :-) ).  So if MVP is
    just that Most Valuable Player anyone with slight bball knowledge
    could make a good case for jordan.  Pippen and Grant are good but Id
    say the bulls would have been lucky to make the playoffs this year
    without jordan, the east has some very talanted teams, and the bulls
    without jordan could have won 10-15 less games which would have put
    them out of the playoff picture.  I guess the question is how bad would
    Houston and Chicago be without Akeem and Jordan, pretty bad, who would
    be worse, no Idea... Ewing, sorry I just do see it, maybe with the NY
    market, but I dont see it happening.
    
    	NBA Finals New York Knicks VS The Chicago Bulls, oh yea
    	and then they play a scrimmage against some west coast team :-)

>    I dont get to see much of Houston but if his supporting cast is as
>    bad as it sounds then I would think most teams would be double and
>    triple teaming Akeem, if thats true and he still posted those number
>    then Id say give it to akeem.  My second choice would be a toss up
    
    Teams do double and triple Hakeem, but when the guards are hitting
    their 3's, it's tough to do.  Fortunately for the rest of the NBA,
    their guards a VERY streaky from out there.  When Houston won 15 in a
    row last month, the guards were shooting 50% from 3-point land.

Pacers beat the Knicks 116-93 to extend the series for at least one more 
game. Knicks were leading in the 3rd until Starks pulled an uncalled for, 
stupid, indefensible, bonehead move. He butted Reggie Miller with his head.
Starks got thrown out, Miller caught on fire, the rest of the game was
history. It was good to see Ewing and Riley lambasting Starks immediately.
Starks can be such a great shooter, sometimes he just doesn't get it.

The Crazy Met

Has Starks been suspended yet? In my book and Bobby the Brain Heenan's
book a head butt is a good if not better attack weapon than a punch...

Indiana in three straight would be like an early christmas present...

    	Nice haid-butt by Starks.  And you guys say the NHL is like
    the WWF...
    
    				/Don

    I guess Starks found the loophole in the new playoff fighting rules.

NY thugball at its finest...

Yeah to reiterate no defense for what Starks did last night. 
If he were suspended Ibelieve it would be for 1 game so he would
be available if there was a game 5.

The Crazy Met

    Starks was fined $5K, but no suspension.

>>    Starks was fined $5K, but no suspension.


What a joke....me thinks if Starks was a Pacers he'd be sitting out the
rest of the series. It's incidents like these /er that make NBA playoffs
still second to the NCAA.....

The level of play maybe better but also the lack of real officiating
is as sorry a blackeye as you want to see. 

    	Sure MikeC, tell me Duke didn't get preferred status in last
    year's NCAA playoffs.  Remember Christian's foot in the chest to
    the Kentucky player in Philadelphia?
    
    				/Don

I thought Starks should have been given a 1 game suspension. Sure it would 
have hurt the Knicks, but his action was totally uncalled for and unjustified
in any way.

The Crazy Met

    Knicks close out the series with a 109-100 win over Indiana. Knicks
    were down by 14 early and then by 10-12 late in the 3rd. 
    
    Starks missed an easy put back as time expired in the 4th.
    
    The story of OT was Doc Rivers who hit 3 consecutive 3 point shots to
    put the Pacers away. Next up Charlotte, game 1 on Sunday. Knicks had
    better be ready or the Hornets will STING them.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

     >> Knicks had better be ready or the Hornets will STING them.
    
        That's pretty damn clever there, TCM, "Hornets" and "sting".
       What the hell would you have used if they were playing the
       Cavaliers next?    
    

    	The Knicks better buckle down and not approach this series with
    a cavalier attitude.
    
    				/Don

    What is the schedule for this serires?
    
    REK

figured you come back with that one /er...sure the NCAA screwed up, and
it tends to look like we may see more of the same as they try to emulate
the NBA who set the tone and established the 'protected' player/franchise
BS!!!!!!!!

The thing is in any NBA game you're going to see the preferential
treatment but not all NCAA games have protected 'players'....

mike

    Neither does the NBA, Mike.  Fer instance, when Sacratamatoe plays
    Dullass.
    
    hth,
    brews

    TCM, I'd be nervous if I were you.  Folks in CELTICS are saying the
    Knicks will sweep the Bugs.

I've never worried about what folks in ::celtics say.

The Crazy Met

    	Riley Inc. is going to bury the Bugs in 5.
    
    				/Don

I'll take a win in this series. Hail give me 2 and I get to see 3 home
games.

TTom

you'll all eat crow when the Hornets do it in 6.......

mike

    	Hey MikeC, you wouldn't feel like making a CrazyMetFoolish P-Name
    bet on that prediction, would ya?
    
    				/Don

/er 'ya beat me to the punch. So what about it
 Mike "call me sooooo confident" Childs??

The Crazy Met

man look at all the vulture come out of the woodwork will ya....TCM's
probably the only guy in here with a worst track record than me when it
comes to p-names...nothing  and repeat nothing will ever be lower than
the one the Cacti hung on me last year so you're both on.....

 a week vs a week.....

 mike

    	Tell ya what MikeC, if the series goes six games and the *Knicks*
    win I'll call it a wash.  If the series goes seven games, I'll wear
    your P-Name regardless of who wins the game.  Even the CrazeCurse
    can't hurt me, 'cuz I got the NBA, NBC, Pepsi, Nike, Bill&Hillary
    and the Military Industrial Complex on my side!
    
    				/Don

>    	Tell ya what MikeC, if the series goes six games and the *Knicks*
>   win I'll call it a wash.  If the series goes seven games, I'll wear
>   your P-Name regardless of who wins the game.  Even the CrazeCurse
>   can't hurt me, 'cuz I got the NBA, NBC, Pepsi, Nike, Bill&Hillary
>   and the Military Industrial Complex on my side!
    
 why that's right manily of you there Slasher....maybe I'll take that in to
 consideration when i draw up your p-name....

 you're right though it'd those three goons in the striped shirts that
 work for all those above mention folks that have me worried.... 

      I think that the Hornets stand a good chance of beating the
    knickers. If 'Zo can slow/minimize Ewing,  then its very possible.
    
      I would laugh it it happened!
    
      Tim

    Lets talk match-up...
    Ewing-Mourning.... Knicks
    Oakly- Johnson.... Bugs
    Smith-Newman....   Knicks
    Starks-Gill....    Even
    Rivers-Muggys      Knicks
    
    bench
    Mason-Wingate.... Knicks
    Blackmon-Curry... Bugs
    Smith-Gattison... Knicks But Smith has been moving to C.
    Anthony-(Some white guy) Knicks
    That leaves Campbell, Williams and Davis vs Gminski, and 2 other people
    on the bench...
    Game 1 102-86 Knicks
    Game 2 98-89  Knicks
    Game 3 105-101 Bugs
    Game 4 96-93 Knicks
    Game 5 110-96 Knicks in 5....
    
    REK
    
    PS I'm going to Disney World and won't be back until May 27th. So if I
    have to eat crow please freeze it until I get back.....(Well, I'm
    leaving May 12th....

    You're on MikeC.
    
    Knicks win game 1 111-95 after being don by 10 as late as the middle of
    the 3rd. Then the defense kicked in and game was over. Mourning
    basically did a disappering act in the second half. But the Hornets
    were in the game until 8-9 minutes left in the 4th; the experience can
    only help them.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    btw - /er is definitely a nicer guy than I am, I don't accept his game
    7 terms. However, if it does go 7 games and the Knicks win I'll call it
    a wash.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

whatever TCM. So nice of you to accept my bet after winning the first
game...  ;^)

just yanking I realize you're a busy man and probably didn't have a chance
to check in sooner....

Mourning didn't disappear, but with Muggsy unable to hit the 15 footer,
the Knicks just colasped on Mourning. 

mike    

>                     -< time for thug ball to go home.... >-
>you'll all eat crow when the Hornets do it in 6.......

Mike, Mike, Mike..."thug ball" ???  All those years cheering for Georgetown
and you have the 'nads to call the Knicks "thugs" ????  And you honestly think
the Hornets have a chance in this series ???  I'm concerned about your b-ball
analysis skills and/or objectivity.

We're talking young-punks vs. veterans in-or-around prime...kids
tasting the playoffs for the 1st time vs. a team that nearly took
out Chicago last year and is on a mission this year.  We're talking
Riley vs. Bristow...the best defensive team in the NBA having the
homecourt advantage....Charlotte's backcourt against the Knicks' backcourt.

Just take a look at Charlotte's total destruction in the 4th quarter
in game 4 vs. the Celtics and you'll see that they aren't going to
beat the Knicks in crunch-time, at home or on the road.

It ain't goin' beyond 5 games.

It ain't thug ball I mind as much as Riley, Joe. You know the guy that
claimed it to be the worst sin on the planet at one point in his career.

Knicks won game one that's all they haven't won the series yet. The Knicks
were thrashed the whole game except for the 4th guarter. Hopefully the
Hornets learnt what it'll take. 

mike

    The 4th quarter and OT of game 2 were a tale of 2 teams. One young an
    hesitant; a team that once again blew a large 4th quarter lead only
    this time on the road and against a team that won 60 games in the
    regular season. This young team had 2 24 second violations called on
    them late in the 4th and missed shots when the 24 second clock was
    running down. The other team made the big shots in the 4th, including a
    3 to tie things up with under a minute left. Ewing hit a jumper with
    time running out on the 24 second clock in OT. Knicks hit their free
    throws, Charlotte did not. These are the reasons why the Knicks will
    win this series, though I still expect Charlotte to take them to 6
    games; if it goes less than 6 all the better.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    It could spell trouble for the Knicks having to win like this
    regularly.  They've had very competitive games in both series so far.
    
    Peter Vecsey said on the air tonight that many of the Hornets,
    especially Gill, were irate with Bristow for playing it conservatively
    late in the game (i.e., calling plays instead of letting them play the
    style that got them the big lead).
    
    Mike

    
         New York seems intent on keeping the other team in it and 
        Charlotte/Bristow doesn't know how to twist the knife once
        they stick it in. The combination of the two should make for
        some close games with the Knicks winning because they/Riley
        know how to finish.
    
         After watching last night's game, it is my opinion that no
        New Yorker has any right to rag on Pens fans because that was
        one lame ass crowd in MSG last night. And this isn't *just* an
        opportunity to rag on New Yorkers. They are easily the quietest
        crowd I've seen so far in the playoffs. At points during the game
        last night when the crowd should have been in it, they were so
        quiet you could hear Grandmama's support hose run. I've seen more
        raucous crowds at christenings. A possible explanation may be that 
        most of them are late arrivals on the bandwagon and are unfamiliar 
        with the team, the sport and the arena. Judging by some of the staid, 
        yuppified faces lining courtside, I'd venture to guess that most of 
        them may have been a bit intimidated by the sight of that many large 
        black men and may have been to busy clutching their valuables to clap 
        their hands. Thought it rather sad too that the Knicks, as good as 
        they are, have only sold out 23 games in a row. Just 23! A team that 
        good in a city that big. It's a shame. 

    .140
    
    I hope your comments do not turn into a color rathole.  Maybe the fans
    felt nervous when they saw that the young Hornets were not intimidated
    by the Knocks and quite possibly could have won the game.  Young teams
    like the Hornets can be so unpredictable and their athleticism can
    compensate for youth and inexperience.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

 Hey TCM, if Gill was wearing a white uniform that shot was good...sure
 looked to me like the buzzer sounded with 1 on the clock to me, and I'm
 certainly not bias or nothin'....

 Been a long time since I screamed at the TV....%^&*^())__+!!

 mike

re:.140

JD a piece of advice, just ignore Tommy in note .140

re: .142

It was a very close call - I assume you mean the shot by Gill late in
the 4th. But Charlotte should have never been in the situation of being in
that position after leading by 13 or 15 midway through the 4th.

The Crazy Met

     >> JD a piece of advice, just ignore Tommy in note .140
    
        Ignore it all you want but you can't ignore the fact that there
        are remote villages in Micronesia with more electricity than was
        exhibited by the crowd last night at MSG. I haven't seen that many
        stuffed shirt, tight-assed yuppies outside of a Brooks Brothers
        store. 

yawn, ho hum.

The Crazy Met

   >> yawn, ho hum.
    
      Hmmm. With all that enthusiasm, maybe you really *are* a true Knicks
      fan.
    
       BTW, TCM. What's up with those outfits on the Knicks cheerleaders?
       They should have let Larry Flynt design 'em instead of Oscar De La
       Renta. They look like they belong in the opening credits of the
       old Mary Tyler Moore Show.

    oooooooooh good come back, TCM.

Hmm, missed the cheerleaders outfits.

Thanks Brews, I always appreciate your support and enthusiasm.

The Crazy Met

    TCM, I guess it's easy to find fault with playoff teams when you don't
    have one.  Then again, maybe I should keep quiet now that he's on your
    case ;-)

      re .149
    
      Ha! Pretty funny there, Mikey!
    
     >> -< no yuppies in Phoenix crowds >-
    
        Nope, there aren't. But there are an awful lot of folks that make
        that banjo player in Deliverance look like a city slicker.
         

    There aren't ANY fans in Tempe, watching the PHOENIX Cards, are there?
    Do they need a new stadium and a blockbuster deal to get them
    motivated?
    

No sweat MikeH; Tommy is putting out bait waiting for a bite. The Knicks
have looked less than awesome against Charlotte; of course since I did
expect this to be a tough series it is not all that shocking. I just
hope that the Cavs give Chicago a run for their money.

The Crazy Met

    
  >> No sweat MikeH; Tommy is putting out bait waiting for a bite. 
    
     No, I'm not. I honestly belive that the Knicks have the lamest fans
     this side of Michael Bolton. 

    The Cards earned their empty seats by being a poor excuse for an NFL
    organization/team.  I'm sure that will change this year.

    Fans shouldn't be frontrunners... they should fill it not matter what,
    if they're good fans, right?  What were the Suns attendance figures
    before last year?  
    
    I agree, you should sell out playoff games.  Did Cleveland sell out
    game 5?
    

    Suns have been sold out for 5+ years (over 260 consecutive sellouts).

    
      There's no comparison between Suns fans and Knicks fans in terms
     of loyalty or vocality. Suns fans raise the roof during tough play-
     off games. Knicks fans are too busy reading their programs trying
     to figure out which team is which.

>    It could spell trouble for the Knicks having to win like this
>    regularly.  They've had very competitive games in both series so far.

Doc Rivers' injury played a part in the Knicks going from +9 to -13.
And they've probably had 78 "competitive" games out of the 88 they've
played so far.  Knowing how to win close games is a big plus in the
playoffs.


>    Peter Vecsey said on the air tonight that many of the Hornets,
>    especially Gill, were irate with Bristow for playing it conservatively
>    late in the game (i.e., calling plays instead of letting them play the
>    style that got them the big lead).

Gill provides ample evidence of inexperience with that statement.
Another example of a player blaming a coach for the players' inability
to execute.

The Bristow-Gill relationship is a major factor in Kendall's problems. It
goes back to when Bristow was in the Hornets front office and tried to
either break Gill's agent's neck or emotionally embrace him, depending on
who you talk to.

One of the rumors going around is that getting rid of Bristow is high on
the list of demands Gill is making to the Hornets as part of the price to
pay to keep him in Charlotte.

At this point in the Knicks series, I'm unimpressed with both of them. 

TTom

    
    Tommy -
    
    Didn't see the game, so can't comment directly.  However I'll agree on
    the Cheerleader outfits.  LAME.  Very Lame.  Game I did see did have a
    Boston Celtic looking crowd - you know, Lawyers and the like.  
    
    As for th ePhoenix crowd - no yuppies - yeah right.  Arizona and the
    whole southwest is turning into one of the meccas for Yuppies and New
    agers.  That crowd looks like a Yuppie recruitment poster.  Lots of
    Chads and Chips in that crowd.
    
    JD

>    tickle.  In defense of Cardinals fans, if there are any, they have
>    one of the highest ticket prices in the league.  
    
    /er, the Cards have lowered their prices considerably since the 1st
    season. I believe they are in the middle of the pack now.  The problem
    with not drawing is that they have no history here.  It's not like they
    are an expansion team that grew up wit hthe city, they just showed up
    one day.  With all the people from "somewhere else" who already were
    fans of another team, and the front office screw-ups, the city never
    got really behind them.  George Boone is gone, and Ackles seems to be
    making some smart moves, so maybe things will change.
    
    JD, as usual, you are talking about something you know little about. 
    Phoenix is not "yuppified."  It is generally a blue-collar town, with a
    low percentage of professionals in the work force.  As a matter of
    fact, the lack of professional (read: yuppie) work being attracted to
    the are is a major bone of contention for the state of Arizona. 
    Because the average pay here is much lower than the rest of the nation,
    there seems to be no problem attracting low paying, unskilled jobs, but
    the professional jobs are what is needed to see some real economice
    growth.
    
    brews 

    JD is only an expert on washed-up, brain-dead hockey coaches trying to
    impersonate a color commentator.

Still, with a metropolition population of between 16 and 20 MILLION, you would 
think filling up the stadium for a championship contenda would be a cinch.
What are the ticket prices like?   $50 a seat?

Give the Woody Allans, McEnroe's, Nickelson etc credit, they can smell a decent game
when there's one around.

    Knicks playoff games have all been sold out; not sure where the
    mis-informaation came from. Knicks have sold out their last 23 home
    games so they must have sold out for all their playoff games.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Knicks win another close game to lead series 3-1. Hornets won in double
    OT on Friday. Blackman hit a jumper with 6 seconds left for the game
    winner. 
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    Knicks win another close game to lead series 3-1.

It should be over (4-0), with the Knicks preparing for Chicago.  No-nad
zebras hurt 'em at crunch-time Friday night.  Ewing's had just 2 FTs
in last 2 games.  Hopefully they'll get the home-court officiating
tomorrow night and end this thing.

>It should be over (4-0), with the Knicks preparing for Chicago.  No-nad
>zebras hurt 'em at crunch-time Friday night.  Ewing's had just 2 FTs
>in last 2 games.  Hopefully they'll get the home-court officiating
>tomorrow night and end this thing.


 Ewing's been getting away with plenty of crap, now you want him to get
 even more Joe???

 mike

      >> Game I did see did have a Boston Celtic looking crowd - you 
      >> know, Lawyers and the like.  
    
         The Celtics do have far too many suits and ties sitting court-
         side but that's where the similarity between the Boston and
         New York crowd ends. First of all, the New Yorkers are much better
         dressed. Secondly, the New Yorkers look like they're watching
         Dustin Hoffman in Death of Salesman not an NBA playoff game.
         A lot of pensive looks on the yuppies at courtside MSG. Hard
         to tell whether their contemplating the beauty of a John Starks
         three pointer or the power lunch they had that afternon at
         La Cirque. The most glaring difference is that the Bostonians 
         have been supporting their team longer. Any New Yorker with 
         any sense (oxymoron?) would have gotten season tickets when 
         they drafted Ewing but them fools didn't even support the team 
         this year until it was obvious to even the most addled brained 
         of New York's winos that this team has a legitimate shot at it 
         all. Nope, Boston fans don't rank all that high on the noise meter 
         but comparing 'em to Knicks fans is like comparing Marilyn Monroe
         to Madonna.
         
    

Before Bird (BB) Boston fans didn't fill up the Gahden every night. It
was the Yuppies and Yuppie wannabes that started getting season tickets 
after Bird came aboard. Next year the sell out streak should come to a
screeching halt; if Lewis does not come back people will think that 1979-80
was a good season.

The Crazy Met

    
    Hey TCM, who'd you lose to this time to have to wear that most
    embarrassing p-name?   What's next, "Prez-- Bobby Bo Fan Club"?
    
    glenn
    

See Glenn, I believe that one stays a fan through the bad times
as well as the good times; I guess Red Sox fans only know about the
bad times :-), and soon enough we'll know if Celtics fans feel
the same way, right Tommy? 

As I stated earlier, the Isles-Pens series was real
tough to root for anyone, sort of like the 1986 WS for Yankee fans.
Since the Isles and Pens could not both lose their series I went with the
lesser of 2 evils - this year. In another year it might have been the
other way.

The Crazy Met

    
    re .171
 
    The Celtics were always third behind the Sox and the Bruins in 
    the hearts of Bostonians. Bird helped elevate the 'Tics past the
    Bruins and sustained success would have vaulted them past the
    lackluster Sox but that doesn't look like it will happen what with
    the men in green looking pretty lackluster themselves. However, 
    it should be noted that before Bird and Magic and marketing genius 
    David Stern, Boston wasn't the only town that thought the NBA was 
    about entertaining as painful rectal itch. Except for small market, 
    one sport towns like Phoenix and Portland, the NBA couldn't draw flies
    if it were a spit roasted Branch Davidian before the Big Three
    made basketball THE sport. New Yorkers in the meantime have been
    conspicuously absent from the hoopla (pardon me) surrounding the
    explosion in popularity of basketball. That is in large part due
    to the fact that until recently the Knicks plain stunk but that still
    doesn't explain why the team has only a 23 game sell out streak and
    not a 46 game streak.

    

> See Glenn, I believe that one stays a fan through the bad times
> as well as the good times; I guess Red Sox fans only know about the
> bad times :-), and soon enough we'll know if Celtics fans feel
> the same way, right Tommy? 
    
    There's no mutual exclusion between being a fan and being a realist.
    But then again, I guess you never did say what it is that the boys in
    blue and orange are doing in "Mets <CENSORED> in '93".  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

The Pittsburgh fixation is more a product of certain elements in this notesfile
than anything else; same with the Phoenix Suns.

The Crazy Met

 I refuse to wear it.....

 

 unless physically forced too....I'm taking the "Dinz" on this one...

 ;^)
    

The Crazy Met

 one can only hope that the hapless Knicks are as overconfident as you
 guys...

 IT AIN'T OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 mike

We can be confident. No way Riley will let the Knicks be
overconfident. Besides after 4 close games they don't need Riley
to tell 'em that.

MikeC I am considering being somewhat merciful, so I'd be real careful
if I were you about makeing inflammatory comments.

The Crazy Met

    Knicks win 105-101 and take the series 4-1. Knicks led most of the way
    though Charlotte made it close.
    
    MikeC, it is time to pay the piper. You could cop an insanity plea, but
    in ::SPORTS that just won't work. One could also argue for forgiveness
    on the grounds that you know not what you are doing, but if we did that
    how would you learn from your mistakes?? But then again one should show
    mercy, at least on occasion. You actually lost p_name bets to both /er
    and myself. We have not yet finalized your p_name, but we will come
    to a quick agreement on it tomorrow. 
    
    Although we NY'ers have a bad rep we have an abundance of good
    qualities; on of them is the ability to be very merciful.
    Therefore, I have decided to let the term you
    owe me run concurrently with the one that you owe /er. It will be a 
    very painful p_name for you to stomach, but at least you will only need 
    to wear it for a week.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Yeah Yeah whatever...Hats off to Oakley, Ewing and Starks who carried the
rest of these guys to the Finals. Oakley done punished Grandmama. Ewing was
clutch and Starks was more consistent than he has ever been. When he sunk that
3 last night it was like a dagger in my heart. If nothing else atleast the 
p-name bet got me emotional about the series, that and Mourning. The Rook may
have hit a wall but he reached down last night and found a little more inside
of himself just like a great one is expected to do...

I hope someone on NY ends Pippen's career..  :^) ahahahahahahaaaaaa

      One would expect a tight-assed crowd dominated by gray suited 
     businessmen like the one at MSG to show a little more class
     than to chant "Hey hey hey good-bye" at the end of the game
     to a young and gutsy Hornets team that played their hearts out
     all series long. Our resident faux-fan expert from New York need
     look no further than his own backyard for the ultimate in faux
     fandom. New York style. Every pan of the crowd looked like a 
     snapshot from the Harvard class of '63 reunion. Not one blue 
     painted face. Not one short fat guy wearing a Patrick Ewing 
     Jersey. Not one basketball on one head. Plenty of Brook Brothers 
     suits, though. Plenty of approving nods and smiles but no wild 
     displays from the haves when the former have-nots down on the 
     court perform those spectacular athletic feats that just come 
     naturally to them. Plenty of folks glancing at their watches and
     wondering if they can catch the last seating at whatever is the
     latest power restaurant when the game is deadlocked with 6.5
     seconds left. Faith healers don't get crowds that lame.
    

    I'd be careful about rubbing in that p-name bet, TCC.  You're about due
    for another excellent loss...

    	Bulls (unless MICHAEL is out) in six.  Hey TCM, I never agreed
    to that.  I made a tough bet.  If the Knickerbockers had lost last
    night all I get is a push and if the Hornets/Bees go to seven I
    lose the bet.  Much like Shylock, I want my pound of flesh (nearest
    to the heart, of course).
    
    				/Don

Tommy the Knicks are still in the playoffs; I mean that crowd at Boston Garden
was deafening last night, wasn't it????

/er don't worry you're getting your pound of flesh, I'm just giving up
part of mine this time.

Bulls in 6? You're kidding, right?

The Crazy Met

    Hey the BULLS in 6 is an Insult, anything less then a Sweep is
    Unexceptable.  I agree with a previous note, if the Bulls dont
    take either game 1 or 2 it will be a long battle.  Go back to
    NY for Game 5 down 3-1 will be tough on the bulls (I think NY
    will take 1 in chicago if the bulls done take one in NY). But
    hopefully the Bulls will split at NY then take back to back home
    wins and close it out in game 6 :-)....  Will be fun to watch that
    sweaty bald guy...
    							MairB

    
    *THE* sweaty guy with no hair (bald ain't in the 3 yr old vocabulary)
    plays for Phoenix.  For the first time in the playoffs, he played like
    the sweaty bald guy who plays for Chicago.
    
    brews

  >> Tommy the Knicks are still in the playoffs; 
    
     Yeah, the Knicks must still be in it due to the amazing support
     they get from all those faceless suits in the stands. After all,
     hey, they've sold out 24 whole games in a row including playoffs!
     And in dinky little metropolitan New York! Even Jane Russell doesn't 
     get that kind of support. Besides you could barely hear the PA
     announcer last night over the cries of "Drop 'em like a pile of IBM 
     stock!" and "Hey, Johnson, you're Grandmama invested in Penn Central!"
       
  >> I mean that crowd at Boston Garden was deafening last night, wasn't 
  >> it????

     If Boston being out of it is the best defense you can muster for that 
     collection of Gordon Gecko wannabees you've got in the stands at MSG 
     then hang it up. Of course, everyone of them is probably a "lifelong 
     Knicks fan" just like the two we have here in SPORTS!


     BTW - is it a strict rule that you must wear a conservative suit to a
           Knicks playoff game or could I wear a "Mike Milken Was Rail-
           roaded" t-shirt if I wanted?
         
    

    
    It's good to know that when the company loses valuable employees kuke
    MrT, we have someone like Tommy, the Master of Metaphor, Brydie to take
    his place.
    
    brews 

    
        Truth be known - I've actually been rooting for the Knicks
       all playoffs long (Honestly!). I've followed Pat Ewing's
       career ever since he was a school kid around these parts
       and wish him nothing but the best. John Starks is another
       personal favorite. At times he lets his emotions overtake
       him and commits stupid fouls that are often interpreted as
       dirty but I really think he's just emotional. Then there's 
       Doc Rivers who already seems to be the heart and soul of 
       this team because he has so much of both. Throw in Charles
       Oakley the quintessential tough guy and Anthony "All I Do
       Is Play Hard All The Time" Mason and it's tough *not* to
       like this Knicks team. Their fans, however, are another 
       story.

Tommy it's time to can it. You got what you wanted way back when
you first started the thread and frankly your notes here are getting
very repetitive and very boring. Of course you can continue as long
as you wish but you'll probably be just talking to yourself.

The Crazy Met

    Hey, I kind of like Tommy's notes.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    
     re .194
    
     Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. Ha!
    
    
     BTW - TCM, how many Knicks fans does it take to change a light bulb?
    
    
    
           Two. One to change the bulb and one to hold the other guy's glass
           of Merlot while he does it. Ha!

    	Hey I think Tommy's notes are funny too.  Is it just me or does
    Anthony Mason look like a younger, skinnier Godfrey Cambridge?  Bulls
    win this next series and I'll wager a P-Name on it!
    
    				/Don

      A recent survey* of Knicks fans revealed that:

      63% thought that Herb Williams really hasn't done 
      much since he left the Tijuana Brass.

      57% considered wearing brown shoes with a blue suit
      an offensive foul.

      32% thought "Yeah, Cotton Fitzsimmons. But then again, 
      cotton fits just about everybody." 

      48% think the Knicks turnaround can be directly attributed
      to Pat Riley and Giorgio Armani.

      53% said they like MSG. 30% didn't care for it. And the 
      other 17% said that they had an allergic reaction to it 
      and usally specified no MSG when ordering.

      61% predicted the Knicks to go all the way. 30% said that
      they wouldn't. And 9% thought the Cowboys would be tough 
      to beat.

      
      * - this survey has an accuracy of +/- 5%.
   
    

I have to agree that I like Tommy's notes.  He seems to have a
rather adept insight into the inner workings of those folks who
sit at courtside in MSG.

Lately, I've been hearing Atlantic Bell advertising that their cellular
phone customers now have the ability to make a mobile phone call from
a) Nassau County Coliseum (from behind the goal no less) b) Penn Station,
and C) Brendan Byrne Arena.

Now, I'm wondering why it is that those fine exhibits of geekery courtside
at MSG are not phoning their brokers on their cellular phones during the
game?


Enquiring and all that.....


'Saw

    
      >>61% predicted the Knicks to go all the way. 30% said that
      >>they wouldn't. And 9% thought the Cowboys would be tough 
      >>to beat.
      
    In this day and age, I should hope they'll wear a condom if they're
    going all the way.
    
    JaKe
    

I liked the lightbulb comment.

The Crazy Met

    
  >> I liked the lightbulb comment.

  >> The Crazy Met
    
     Kinda takes the fun out of it for me if you like 'em, TCM. 
     

    po' po' Tommy
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    MikeC,
    
    /er has spoken:
    
    your p_name for one week from the time that you first use it is:
    
    "JohnElway-CantonIsCalling"
    
    The Crazy Met
    

      re-1  Speaking future facts TCM!
    
      Is your stomach upset today MikeC?
    
      Tim

I got mail from MikeC saying that he is

1. becoming a RON

2. that people will forget after a while so he'll be able to come back in

There is nothing worse than a persons who welshes!

The Crazy Met

	Hey it was hard coming up with a mutual P-Name considering that TCM 
and I have diametrically opposed rooting interests.  But embarrasing MikeC
was paramount, thus the P-Name.  Unlike Bosnia-Herzegovina we could work
our problems out.

				/Don

Yeah /er wanted a p_name that had Auerbach and Riley in it, I refused to 
see AUerbach in it and /er wouldn't go along with only Riley. But
Elway did prove to be the easy choice; we did think about things like
Gerogetown Hoyas sip

and the like, but /er final suggestion was just too brilliant to pass
on. Now where IS MikeC??

The Crazy Met

    Being an ObjectiveSportsAnalyst (tm) I have been paying close attention
    to the crowd ad Madison Square Garden during the first half of the
    Knicks-Bulls game. Now I'm not sure what Tommy has been watching but I
    saw very few people wearing ties and a crowd that was going crazy when
    the Knicks went on a 7-0 run in the 2nd. 
    
    Maybe Tommy was watching folks in the Red Sox 600 Club (not to be
    confused with Pat Robertson's 700 Club) and confused baseball with
    basketball; that is about the only explanation I can think of for
    Tommy's obviously incorrect analysis.
    
    HtH
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Game 1 was amazingly enough a clean hard played game. Knicks got
    the lead to 10 points midway through the 4th and then never let it
    get closer than 6. This series will be a long one. Starks came up big
    with the 4 3-pointers in the 4th; the one he canned with Jordan in his
    face was a pleasure to watch - and yes Tommy you could even hear the
    crowd roar its appreciation.
    
    Real interesting to hear Phil Jackson say that the Knicks had been
    playing clean basketball in the playoffs; and they can still win, what
    a shock. :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

> Nice try, TCM, but Tommy's analysis is backed up in Sunday's Worcester T&G.

Oh yes a paper with a real reputation for deep analytical reporting-ha ha ha.

The Crazy Met

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.local.los_angeles,clari.news.lifestyle
Subject: Riley can cash in on Bulls' three-peat

	CHICAGO (UPI) -- Talk about a conflict of interest.
	If the Chicago Bulls manage to defeat the New York Knicks on the way
to three-peating this season as NBA champions, who cashes in? As it
turns out, Knicks Coach Pat Riley stands to make a pretty penny.
	After coaching the Los Angeles Lakers to back-to-back NBA
championships in 1987 and 1988, Riley coined the term ``three-peat''
when he led the team into the 1989 championship series. The Lakers lost
out on their three-peat bid, but Riley registered the term as a
trademark in 1989 and now owns its use on shirts, jackets and hats.
	So, if the Knicks win the title, Riley earns $35,000 and a
championship ring. If the Bulls win their third straight NBA title and
if a company uses ``three-peat'' on its licensed goods, they must pay a
royalty fee to the NBA, which turns that money over to Riley. One
souvenir company executive said it could be a $2.5 million windfall for
Riley.
	Because of the royalty fee, at least one manufacturer, Salem
Sportswear, said it avoids the term ``three-peat'' on signature items,
such as the official locker room T-shirt that will be produced for the
NBA.
	``We're trying to avoid that to keep the retail prices down,'' Mike
Bordeaux, a spokesman for Salem, told the Chicago Sun-Times. ``But Pat
Riley, if (the Bulls) win, will do very well.''

    I was rolling while reading Tommy's notes.  Funny thing though, he
    wasn't like that the last time we worked together.  He must've taken an
    Evelyn Woodhead course since then.

                                                      
    I read about that.  Leave it to a slick, marketing-savvy business exec
    posing as a basketball coach to go out and trademark a dumb concept 
    like "three-peat".   Challenging his team (the Lakers) to "three-peat" 
    got Riles into some trouble with his players in the first place.  I'm
    sure this just enhances Riley's image in the eyes of some of his
    biggest fans in here, like Mike C and Bob M... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

The Crazy Met

    
    	His *week* shouldn't start til he enters a note bearing
    	that wunnerful p-name!
    
    Claybone

    
    I was surprised at the numbver of ties and suits at the game yesterday. 
    I was really surprised that so many stockbrokers and corporate lawyers
    were at the game after working so hard on a Sunday.  And it must be
    tough for all the Hollywood types to make that cross-country flight. 
    Dyan Cannon was about the only one missing.
    
    brews

re:.220

His week starts when he first enters a note bearing the p_name. He just thinks
that over time people will forget about the p_name he owes. Methinks he is
very misguided.

The Crazy Met

    
    Hey, it's probably not that easy for Mike.  Roger lost to the YAnks
    Saturday, and he can't comment.
    
    brews

Brews,

.223 is a beaut of a note! I didn't know you sales droids could be
so creative :-)

The Crazy Met

Mike's week starts when he enters his first note.

Nobody mentioned anything at all about a deadline on WHEN he
had to enter his first note.

Therefore, if he has not entered his first note, then he can't
be welching...

If he enters his first note without the p-name, then he's welched.....

Simple logic.

'Saw

'Saw,

In absence of any by-laws or regulations on such matters, precedence tends
to be the determining factor. Unless someone has been on vacation, the payoff
on p_name bets has begun immediately after someone has lost. Hence, Mike
is a welsher.

The Crazy Met

>In absence of any by-laws or regulations on such matters, precedence tends
>to be the determining factor. Unless someone has been on vacation, the payoff
>on p_name bets has begun immediately after someone has lost. Hence, Mike
>is a welsher.

Try this: 

	You can't dictate when someone has to note.  Mike could note
	four months from now, (like some other noters have done in
	the past) and as long as he's carrying the p-name, it's cool.

'Saw

Thanks Saw but give it up. I'll let them have their pound of flesh...

mike

>Thanks Saw but give it up. I'll let them have their pound of flesh...

Oh, okay.

I hadn't seen the other notes.....

I didn't know that a province in China was interested in Elway?

'Saw

    
    	Knowing how MikeyC feels about Elway, I'd say it's more
    	like a whole laig rather than just a pound of flesh!
    
    Claybone

    
>    	Knowing how MikeyC feels about Elway, I'd say it's more
>    	like a whole laig rather than just a pound of flesh!
    
 
My my my, you certainly have been hot lately their Clayward!!! %^&%*(&*^^&

mike

    
    Mike, you had me skeert for a few seconds, thought you were dinzin' on
    us.  Didn't think you were that type.
    
    Dontcha have a lot of important business meetings this week?
    
    Brews, who doesn't like to see the p_name up there anymore than you do 

> Brews, who doesn't like to see the p_name up there anymore than you do 

you going Sensitive on us??

The Crazy Met

>you going Sensitive on us??

And what's wrong with being Sensitive?????

    
    	Rat on 'Saw!  Nuthin' wrong with being sensitive.  In fact,
    	I feel bad MikeyC. has to wear that p-name.......
    
    :^)
    
    Claybone

Yeah, I mean, it kind of chokes me up, you know.

I went home last night feeling really bad about the burden Mike has
to bear.  It just weighed heavily on my mind....


"Go down Moses, let my people go"


'Saw

 don't feel bad for me, I knew what I was getting into and the odds of
 winning. My greed to stuff at Slusher and The Crazy Marlin overtook
 my better judgement. I knew going in the NBA marketing was heavily
 against me but I had hope that Mourning was next Russell. He did
 perform like it but it take a team effort and Grandmama shit the
 bed on me.....

 I'm just happy that they didn't bag my real achilles heel....

 mike

    
    
        Mike TCM was asking for advice on your P_name. I sent him a good
    one but he didn't accept it. It went something like this. "Georgetown
    Hoyas the team of the ninetys." :-)
    
    Chap

    >> Now I'm not sure what Tommy has been watching but I saw 
    >> very few people wearing ties and 

       That's because it was Sunday. Sunday is Polo by Ralph Lauren
       Day at MSG. Watch tonight's game and see the return of the 
       gray swarm then report back, Mr. Objectivity.

    >> Starks came up big with the 4 3-pointers in the 4th; the one he 
    >> canned with Jordan in his face was a pleasure to watch - and yes 
    >> Tommy you could even hear the crowd roar its appreciation.
    
       Let's see - John Starks nails 4 HUGE 3-pointers in the fourth, does
       an incredible job guarding Jordan and the Knicks take a 1-0 lead
       in the series. And for that the crowd roared its appreciation.
       Boy, them New Yorkers is knowledgeable!
    
        
    

    If y'all had polled moi, I coulda told ya Mikey's Achilles Heel.
    Nexted time, consult me and you'll really see a major league welsh!
    
    MikeL
    

    	It will be 1-1 after tonight.  You know if Mia Farrow really wanted
    to get back at Woody Allen she would go after his Knickerbocker
    tickets.  Wonder who Spike Lee is rooting for?
    
    				/Don

they'd fall second MikeL....now if they had a real big league basketball
team with a despicable coach they could vault into the number 1 posistion.
With basketball being numero uno in my preference list of sports that's the
key to the heel....

mike

Unfortunately I will not be here tomorrow or Thursday to enjoy discussing
tonights game. I do hope that /er begins to eat Crow after tonight.

The Crazy Met

    These quotes from today's paper accurately show Knick feigndom's expert
    analysis and support Tommy Brydie's accusations:
    
    "Gotta go with my man, Jordan.  He can't be stopped.  But don't forget
    about Patrick Ewing, either.  He can do some serious damage.  It's
    going to be a war." - Spike Lee (filmmaker)
    
    "Knicks in 7.  They're too tough at home and match up well against
    Chicago.  Besides, Riley's a much better dresser (than Jackson)." -
    Phil Simms (Giants QB)
    
    "Knicks in 7.  Goaltending will be the key." - Neil Smith (Ranger's GM)
    
    "Knicks in 7.  Scottie Pippen is a wimp." - Chris "Mad Dog" Russo (WFAN)

    
    
         Great great game by the Knicks last night, particularly by
        Charles Oakley. If Chicago is to stand a chance of three-
        peating then they had best do a little better in the Oakley
        vs Grant matchup than last night's mismatch. By game's end 
        last night, Horace Grant had not one rebound and two measly
        points while Oakley was running wild at both ends of the 
        floor. Starks held his own against Jordan again last night.
        I have no idea what Mike's shooting percentage was last night
        but it had to be in somewhere in the mid to lower 40's. At times
        last night he couldn't buy a bucket while Starks was just brill-
        iant at the defensive end and more than adequate on the offensive 
        one. Pippen played well until he was tossed out for holding the
        ball too long after getting called for a foul and then tossing
        it very rudely at the ref. Even if he hadn't gotten thrown out
        Scottie's shoulders are much too narrow to carry that Bulls team.
        Anthony got tossed too for a flagrant "intent to injure" foul that
        just looked like he wasn't gonna give up the easy shot to me but
        it was probably a makeup for Pippen. I'm sure New York would take
        that tradeoff every day. Another good solid game by Charles Smith 
        who's really sheding that soft image of his in this series. The
        series heads back to the Windy City with the Bulls up against it
        and with the inferior coach. I think the reaign of His Airness
        may be nearing an end.
    
        BTW - has anyone else noticed that travelling seems to for the most
              part have been legalised in the NBA?
    
        ABTW - can there be any doubt thatthis series is the *REAL* NBA
               championship?
    

    
>>        BTW - has anyone else noticed that travelling seems to for the most
>>              part have been legalised in the NBA?

	It all depends upon you're star rating index, Tommy. If you're
        Michael or Patrick it's cool to take 3 or 4 steps but let a Greg
        Kite lift his pivot foot and the call will be made. Hubie or Mr Bill
        said it best when the refs look at as "that's his move"... 
    
>>        ABTW - can there be any doubt thatthis series is the *REAL* NBA
>>               championship?


	No doubt about it. The thing that's buggin me is that I'm actually
	finding myself rooting for the Knicks. Watching Starks, Oakley,
        Mason and Rivers play their hearts out is clouding my judgement.
	To think that Riley and Greg Anthony could be on a championship
        team disgust me but these others guys deserve it. Ewing, I'm not
        too sure about....

 mike
    

    Greg Anthony gets a $5,000 fine for his flagrant foul on Jordan.

Article: 9174
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Anthony, Knicks fined
Date: Thu, 27 May 93 13:47:46 PDT
 
	NEW YORK (UPI) -- The National Basketball Association Thursday fined
New York Knicks guard Greg Anthony $5,000 for a flagrant foul against
Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls during Game Two of the Eastern
Conference championship series Tuesday night.
	Anthony was called for the flagrant foul as Jordan drove to the
basket with 4:16 left in the fourth quarter. Anthony was ejected from
the game, which carries an automatic $250 fine. The Knicks won the game,
96-91, to take a 2-0 lead in the best-of-seven series.
	The Knicks' organization also was fined $5,000 under new guidelines
announced by the league at the start of the playoffs.

    
      If there be such a creature as a true Knicks fan then he would be
     doing himself a big favor if he hunted Greg Anthony down and cut 
     Anthony's achilles tendons so that he'd be unable to play the rest
     of the playoffs. From the moment he launched that gad-auwful 3-point
     attempt on yesterday, he stunk the joint out. Again. If Doc Rivers 
     were healthy this series might well be 3-1 today.

    
>      If there be such a creature as a true Knicks fan then he would be
>     doing himself a big favor if he hunted Greg Anthony down and cut 
>     Anthony's achilles tendons so that he'd be unable to play the rest
>     of the playoffs. From the moment he launched that gad-auwful 3-point
>     attempt on yesterday, he stunk the joint out. Again. If Doc Rivers 
>     were healthy this series might well be 3-1 today.

 or Riley's ego as I assume Greg was his choice. What a wasted pick. Makes
 me not feel so bad that we got stuck with Brick at 22....

 mike

    I liked Vecsey's comment on it being better for the Knicks if Anthony
    was suspended for the rest of the playoffs.

Anthony had one good game in the playoffs (game against the Pacers). Other
than that he has been not effective and at times harmful.

The Crazy Met

    Might be better off for the Knicks, but I would have a real objection
    to that if guys like Pippen can get away with throwing a ball at a ref
    or Barkley going after fans or a ref and not be suspended or fined.

    It is compared to a $5000 fine matched by the team... in addition
    to an ejection...
    

    Who one?

    
    
           Da Bulls won...
    
    
    Chappy

    Da Bulls one agane

      Great game.   The Knicks hung tough,  but everytime they got to
    within 1 or so,  the Bulls would put up points with the Knicks keeping
    pace.
    
      I hate to say this,  but Pippen seemed to be the Bulls MVP for this
    series.  He came thru when I thought he would dissappear.
    
      Tim

that'd because Pat the geenyus had everybody guardin' Michael....

mike

    
    > I hate to say this,  but Pippen seemed to be the Bulls MVP for this
    > series.  He came thru when I thought he would dissappear.
    
    That's known as the JD Jinx.  Works every time... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    Ha ha Glenn.
    
    As I said in da Bulls note, Congrats to Bulls, the better team won.
    Knicks choked it away in Game 5 at the foul line.
    
    Team needs changes, especially a good shooting consistent guard.  A Joe
    Dumars type is what they need (but not joe, he's too old...)
    
    JD

    Yup the better team won this series.
    
    re: .264 welcome back R. Caso.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>   Yup the better team won this series

 I find this incredibly obvious :-) The outcome determines the adjective.
If the knicks had won you would make the same statement....would you not?

Pulling your chain,

Metz

 Just think Knicks' fans you too could be playing Phoenix for the
 championship. 2-0 lead homecourt advantage for shame for shame...

 yes I realize this is late but I just really think we didn't pay
 the Knicks enough of a tribute for the gag they laided.....

 mike

MikeC you seem to be taking the Knicks loss to the Bulls harder than
Knicks fans who knew what the real deal was.

Anyone else get the impression that MikeC never roots for a team or player
but is solely defined by who or what he roots against??

The Crazy Met

 >> Anyone else get the impression that MikeC never roots for a team or player
 >> but is solely defined by who or what he roots against??
    
    No.

 >> Anyone else get the impression that MikeC never roots for a team or player
 >> but is solely defined by who or what he roots against??


	Ha!  This from TCM of the Anit-PittsburgH Jihad!


	billl

Bill there is nothing wrong with rooting against a team; heck you dislike all
NY teams, but you also root in favor of the Bucs, Pens, etc.  MikeC
defines himself more by not liking Clemens, by loathing Childs, by knocking
teams like the Knicks, than by the teams he actually roots for.

The Crazy Met

    Bill, it just looks that way because TCM doesn't root for anyone worth
    cheering.

    
      Isn't Mike Childs a HUGE Bill Russell fan, a Celtics fan and a Giants
     fan? 

You forgot Georgetown fan. But that is besides the point since he spends so much
more time being anti teams than pro some teams.

The Crazy Met

    Yo Mac which team worth cheering have you rooted for in the last few
    years??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    	Not to mention he's a big John Elway fan!
    
    Claybone

    Hey, TCCubbie, when are you going to change your P_N?
    
    REK

    
    Yabbut I think I remember the name of the lasted team MtM rooted for:
    
    
    
    
    
    Da Swedish Bikini Team!
    
    
    I remain,
    having a elephant-like memory!
    Kev
    
    

Change my p_name? for what??

The Crazy Met

    TCC... Do you still hold out for the Mutts to win it
    all this year?
    
    REK
    

My p_name's generally change only when:

1. Mets are mathematically eliminated 

OR

2. I lose a p_name bet

Some other exceptions do occur, but they are very very rare.

The Crazy Met

    
    
    Wow 1 and 2 might coincide this year huh Craze.... :^)
    
    Chappy

    Well? Aren't the Mutts eliminated now?
    
    REK

Actually Chappy, at the rate the Mets and Phillies are going the
mathematical elimination will happen first.

The Crazy Met

  Viacom, which owns MTV, Nickolodeon and Showtime among other things is 
 buying Paramount Corp., which owns the New York Knicks and the New York
 Rangers. Viacom is owned by Boston biilionaire Sumner Redstone. In other,
 words the Knicks and the Rangers will be owned by a Bostonian. Ha!

    And the Celtics are owned by New Yorkers.
    The Bruins are owned by someone who lives in Buffalo.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

      And slowly the Japanese are owning the U.S.
    
      HTH
    
      Tim

Article 9551 of clari.sports.basketball:
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Knicks sign Bonner

	NEW YORK (UPI) -- The New York Knicks have reached agreement with
free-agent forward Anthony Bonner. Terms of the deal were not released.
	The 6-foot-8, 225-pound Bonner was released by Sacramento during the
off-season to make room under the salary cap for first-round pick Bobby
Hurley.
	Bonner, who averaged 14.5 points and 6.5 rebounds for the Kings last
season, was drafted by Sacramento in the first round of the 1990 NBA
Draft (23rd overall).
	He was slowed by a fractured foot in his rookie season, but has
improved steadily over the last two seasons, despite a constantly
changing role with the Kings.

    Bonner's points are slightly off in the news release from the previous
    note.  He averaged 8.6 ppg last season, not 14.5!!!
    
    NAZZ

    I've asked the Knickerboxer fans this question in CELTICS and haven't
    received an answer yet.  Maybe the Knickerboxer fans in here can help
    out.
    
    How big is the NBA Preseason Champion trophy?

Mike, you also haven't seen Knicks' fans proclaiming that the Knicks will
win it all.

Or did you mean that the Knicks had the best pre-season record? did they - I
really have no clue.

The Crazy Met

                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 108.291                     New York Knicks                      291 of 291
METSNY::francus "Mets in '94"                         7 lines   2-NOV-1993 17:27
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really have no clue.

The Crazy Met
    

Isn't it some violation of some policy to edit a note and the repost it
as was done in .292??

The Crazy Met

    God help us all if we're taking nba pre-season seriously
    
    If that were the case then we could have hope for the celtics of which
    the only faint hope is that Reggie's condition way back in regular
    season, 92,93 contributed to erratic play of celts.
    
    Sorry, shouldn't put the celtics patter in this note (of all notes)
    
    Bill

 Are you serious, TCM? Toughen up.

is that better

The Crazy Met

    The preseason doesn't matter.... at least I've said that all along...

re: .297

ditto

The Crazy Met

    Mike, I answered your question. The pre-season trophy is the same size
    as the regular season trophy for the best record.......
    
    
    REK

    I've been hearing all sorts of crap from Knick fans around here,
    especially since NY beat the Suns twice in preseason.  Like Walt, I
    said weeks ago that preseason don't mean squat.
    
>    Mike, I answered your question. The pre-season trophy is the same size
>    as the regular season trophy for the best record.......
    
    REK, you're not a Knick fan, just a dog-lover.  Besides I told ya the
    Conference Champion trophy is MUCH bigger.  Of course, NY wouldn't know
    about that.
    
    BTW - Did ya hear they started making NY Knick Underroos? 
    
    The picture is on the INSIDE!

  I think he means over in the Celtics conference where one whole person
 mentioned that the Knicks were undefeated in pre-season. 

    Mac, Tommy, it wasn't just on the net.  "Around here" means locally
    (i.e., in Phoenix where New Yorkers transplant themselves and bring
    their vile and disgusting opinions).

    
    Mike's just mad that I turned him on to the new sports talk radio
    station that has your typically obnoxious Knicks fan as the PM
    drive-time guy.  It's driving all the Suns feigns crazy here, but being a
    Celtics fan, I just know better.
    
    brews  

    
  >> Mike's just mad that I turned him on to the new sports talk radio
  >> station that has your typically obnoxious Knicks fan as the PM
  >> drive-time guy.  

     Then I can't say as I blame Mike. It wouldn't exactly thrill the hell
     out of me. Then again, I just wouldn't listen to it.

would be nice to get a station like that in Boston. How about we swap
WEEI (except Imus) with that station in Phoenix??

The Crazy Met

    Brews, that ain't it at all.  I have 2 neighbors from NY and both my
    fav pizza suppliers are from there.  They're all so confused!

>    Mike's just mad that I turned him on to the new sports talk radio
>    station that has your typically obnoxious Knicks fan as the PM
>    drive-time guy.  It's driving all the Suns feigns crazy here, but being a
>    Celtics fan, I just know better.
    
    ...and besides, any media person as biased as he, is about as credible
    as a lawyer.

    TCM, this guy used to be on the national SEN network out of Los Wages. 
    If you have a 24-hr sports station, they probably pick up SEN in the
    evenings.  Arnie is a NY diehard fan (Knicks, Mets, Islanders, Jets).

I doubt that WEEI picks it up. WFAN which I can pick up pretty well most
of the time also doesn't pick that show up.

The Crazy Met

    I only taunt them about the Thug stuff and have actually bit my tongue
    since June.
    
    I did have some fun with Mason's ejection from a wheelchair charity
    game though.

    You can get that network sometimes out of Buffalo (1520) and I've
    heard Philly.  Not in the Boston market.  The station in Buffalo
    carries Bulls games too.
    

    a decent start to the season. Knicks win first 2 games, both on
    the road - Boston and Cleveland.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Until last year the Knicks couldn't buy a win in Cleveland - they lost there
almost all the time. It sure helped that Nance is out. Knicks still needed
a 3 pointer with 1-2 seconds left to send the game to OT. Starks hit the 3 pointer,
he had been 1-10 shooting until then. Ewing was awesome - 44 points.

The Crazy Met

    so what thug tactic got Duckworth ejected last night?

    Got me, didn't show it on ESPN...
    

    Good win for the Knicks, 98-96 over the Suns in NY. Close game all the
    way. Knicks needed this win after losses at home to Orlando and the
    76ers.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Of course we all know how banged up the Suns are these days.

    Suns lack of a goto person in crunch time hurt, they should've went to
    Ceballos or Miller inside more then since they were doing all the
    damage.  Majerle was laying bricks all over the place, despite being
    victimized by Starks' clutch & grab on the final possession.

    I only saw the last 5 minutes or so.  How long was Miller playing
    the point?  Were the Suns trying to force Starks to the bench by
    playing big?
    
    Charles Smith looked like he was determined to make up for the no
    dunk in the Bulls game during the playoffs.
    
    Mike

>    Charles Smith looked like he was determined to make up for the no
>    dunk in the Bulls game during the playoffs.
    
    ...while the Suns continue to give people uncontested layups in crucial
    situations.

good road trip by the Knicks. They swept the 3 games West Coast swing beating
the Clippers (yeah BFD), Sonics, and Blazers. Not sure if injuries played
a role in any of the games.

Good to see Charlie Smith and Derek Harper have some good games.

The Crazy Met

    I think Seattle is healthy.  Portland's been playing without a true
    center since Chris Dudley went down in November.  Then there's Phoenix,
    the MASH team of the NBA.  Despite all this, Joe G. posted in CELTICS that 
    NY is now 10-0 against the Pacific.  Not bad at all.
    
    gotta luv a GM that replaces his point guard with a better and younger
    one.  They still need Hubert Davis back for their outcourt shooting off
    the bench.  Starks and Harper need help out there to make people suffer 
    for doubling Ewing. 
    
    Hize (SPROTS Most Objective Analyst)

    Uh huh...
    

Knicks dominate the Celtics last night, 114-79, in NY. Game wasn't
close after the first 6-7 minutes. One of those games where the Knicks 
could do nothing wrong, the Celtics could do nothing right.

The Crazy Met

    I sense TCM pulling a Hal, here.  Much like Hal who only talks Cavalier
    basketball after a win, TCM is popping in now to report on Knick
    victories...

The best way to deal with ::sprots is to take nothing personally.
BUT comparing me to Hal - that is personal!

.5 :-)

The Crazy Met

    
    	Hey Hey Hey here...
    
    	this is not a true fact at all.  How dare you compare me to the 
    	Crazy man!  Oh, BTW, the Cavs won yesterday and are playing some
    	good ball lately.  Hope it continues after the All-star game.
    
    
             o
    	Go CAVS!

    
    	If they would have known that Jordan wasn't going to come
    back...they probably would have.  Lets remember one thing here...
    Lenny had no clue on how to beat the Bulls with Jordan there.  
    Even the Jordan stopper didn't work.  I'm glad to see Lenny do 
    well in Atlanta.  He will be the coach of the year...mark my words.
             o
    	GO CAVS!

    >  well in Atlanta.  He will be the coach of the year...mark my words.
    
    If things stay as they are, I can't see anyone but Phil Jackson getting
    COY.

	Lenny got win #600 last night.  Only 38 behind Red.

	Kevin

actually, it was Lenny's 900th W

nice p_name, MikeH
dr.a

>>	Lenny got win #600 last night.  Only 38 behind Red.

	Yabbut, should I say it? How many............ has Lenny won??
    
    
    MikeL
    

    Knicks win streak comes to an end in Atlanta. Orlando in NY later
    today.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Knicks probably played their worse half of the season last night. Second
half against Miami was an absolute pathetic display of something resembling
the game of basketball. Hopefully now that they got it out of their system
they won't put on such an inept display again.

The Crazy Met

    >half against Miami was an absolute pathetic display of something resembling
    
    are you talking about the thuggery or the 33 points scored in the 2nd
    half?

the 33 points. btw when they called a flagrant foul on Oakley at the
end the TNT announcers kept saying that it was not a flagrant foul.
The incident with Smith earlier in the game was not pretty, shouldn't
have taken place, little excuse for it.

The Crazy Met

    MikeL,
    
    remember that JD classic about the bus of fans traveling to Fenway
    with the "maybe this year" theme? Fans of the Rangers take a similar
    attitude about that team - fatalistic; something will go wrong.
    
    Knicks - most nights they seem to be able to beat anyone; then they
    have some stretches where they play a number of mediocre games. In the
    playoffs a stretch of mediocre games means summer vacation. It really
    depends which team shows up in May and June. If the Knicks don't get to
    the NBA Finals it will be a disappointing season. It would be real nice
    to see Ewing finally win an NBA championship. There is no player on the
    Rangers that quite fits that category. Some of them have won a Stanley
    Cup on another team (Messier, Graves); many are still young. 
    
    Bulls could be real tough; Atlanta should be tough; guess we just have
    to wait and see.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Oakley named to the AS team to replace Mourning.
    
    
    Spud

>    the NBA Finals it will be a disappointing season. It would be real nice
>    to see Ewing finally win an NBA championship. There is no player on the
    
    Yeah I hope he wins it next year.

    Mike L., what's with all this interest in New York franchises lately? 
    Are you joining the ranks of the New Yorker Wannabees?

    They did have another all-star.  Oakley replaces 'Zo...
    

re: .346

MikeL finally saw the light. Someday Mac may also (could take a millenia :-)

The Crazy Met

    HaHa
    The only "light" I see about NY is constant blue flashers...
    
    Mac,
    I think both NY teams have legit shots at the rings. I like
    both teams' style of play and if they both didn't have that
    grating "NY" about them, I might be inclined to root for them
    after me beloved Beantown teams(this year). I'm just layin'
    back in the tall grass, watching these two teams thrill their
    fans whilst feeling that that old familiar pall will
    descend on Manhatten come spring.  We ought to know that old
    familiar *autumn* pall, no??
    
    MikeL
    
    

    Now that the NY Bricks(tm) are 0-3 vs. the Nets this season, it may be
    time for Starks to take down Kenny Anderson again.

yeah, well sh*t happens. What was the final score?

The Crazy Met

    Did anyone catch Riley's post game tirade? He stormed out answering no
    questions after a two-minute diatribe,stating that the team is nowhere
    near championship level.

    They shot **29%** from the floor and Ewing was 0-for in the first quarter
    when the game was decided.  The Bricks showed they don't have a chance
    when either Ewing or Starks are having an off game.

    Ewing missed his first 14 shots and wound up 6-29.

    Another hot shooting night by the "We can talk a good game but you'll
    never see us win a title" Knicks against Houston lasted night.  A big
    73 points, 29 in the second half.
    
    NAZZ

    Bricks(tm) have't shot over 40% for quite some time.  Is it time for
    Riles to make a change?  How would you Knick fans shuffle the lineup?

Move Hubert Davis into the starting lineup and bring Starks off the 
bench.  Possibly consider doing the same with Derek Harper and Greg
Anthony.  If that doesn't work, take Charles Smith out behind the barn
and shoot him.  Put him out of his, and Knicks' fans', misery.

Ken

    Riley took you radvice Tuesday in Sacramento. He started Bonner in
    place of Smith and replaced Starks and Anthony with Harper and Davis.

Knicks have been going through a rough stretch (4-8 before last nights
game). Since Riley made those changes they have at least been scoring more.
Important win last night in Atlanta, though I wish they would
stop having to make up so much ground (18 points against Detroit, a bunch
late in last nights game). If form holds Knicks needed to know they can
win a game in Atlanta since at the moment Atlanta would have home court
throughout the playoffs in the Eastern Conference.

The Crazy Met
 

    Riley has been starting Bonner,Harper and Davis. Anthony,smith and
    Starks win up with most minutes. Mason is starting to perk up. Knicks
    are happy to see Dominique out of Atlanta. Manning doesn't present the
    same matchup problem.

    No more minutes for Starks any time soon.
    

    
    
    Why?

 out 3 to 8 weeks with an ankle injury I think....

 mike

real tough break for the Knicks. Definitely hurts their chances in
the playoffs if Starks is out 6-8 weeks.

The Crazy Met

    I thought it was his knee...
    

 could be Walt, I was just guessing on the ankle. The only thing I remembered
 was the time expected away and the fact that it was due to an injury......

    torn cartilage in the knee.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    He was supposed to be scoped today.  Any news yet?  Some over in
    CELTICS say Hubert Davis would be an improvement.

    He's out at least 6  weeks. Will definitely miss opening playoff
    series.

    So it looks like they really missed Starks last night.  Maybe Hubert is
    a better player!

And I guess Indiana isn't all that good, huh Mike??

The Crazy Met

    They're better at home (have won 11 in a row there) than on the road.

But a #7 or #8 team has to be able to win on the road to win a series.

The Crazy Met

    They really only need to win 1 on the road per series.

    What were people saying about Davis being an improvement over Starks?

    While Starks can be spectacular and is a far better athlete than
    Davis,Hubert is a far more accurate shooter. Starks goes thru
    inconsistent periods where he doesn't get the big guys into the
    offense. Derek Harper is starting to uplift his game with increased PT.
    
    The Knicks have mainly been home since Starks' injury. Let's see how
    they do on this upcoming road trip. Charles Smith is also back on the
    injury list.
    
    The Knicks current rotation looks like this:
    
    F-Oakley  F-Mason
    F-Bonner  F/c--Williams
    C-Ewing   
    G-Davis   G-Anthony
    G-Harper  G-Blackman
    

and Blackman has been averaging 10-12/ppg since he got more
minutes.

The Crazy Met

    Knicks have won 13 in a row and are 1.5 games behind for the best
    record in the league. The down side is that this is not the best time
    to be peaking. Knicks should have waited another 2-3 weeks before
    starting to dominate like they are doing now.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    Knicks have won 13 in a row and are 1.5 games behind for the best
>    record in the league. The down side is that this is not the best time
>    to be peaking. Knicks should have waited another 2-3 weeks before
>    starting to dominate like they are doing now.
    
Blame the intensity of the New York media and fans perhaps.

A couple of weeks ago they were screaming about how poorly the team was
doing.  Then Riley took them to Reno, and WHAM, next thing you know.....    

    TcM is sand-bagging.
    
    Mark.

    Will Starks ever win his starting job back?

    Knicks make it 14 in a row,beating Charlotte at the Garden. In addtion
    to the injured Doc Rivers,John Starks and Charles Smith,the Knicks also
    lost Anthony Bonner for much of the game. They had to overcome a 13-0
    deficit to start the game. I believe the last 10 victories have been
    accomplished without Starks.
    
    What has driven this winning streak is 
    1) Consistently clutch play by Charles Oakley.
    2)Huge improvement by Greg Anthony who is light years ahead of where he
    was earlier in the year.
    3)Assimilation of Derek Harper into the offense.
    4)Anthony Mason getting his offensive game back.
    5) Hubert Davis making teams pay for doubling Patrick Ewing by nailing
    his outside shots.
    6) Patrick Ewing's consistency.
    7)The absence of any of the tough western teams(San
    Antonio,Houston,Seattle,Phoenix,Utah,Golden State,Denver,Portland)
    
    Winning without 3 of 1993's key starters,Smith,Rivers and Starks shows
    how deep this team is.

> Winning without 3 of 1993's key starters,Smith,Rivers and Starks shows
> how deep this team is.


you just committed one of the cardinal sins of ::sprots ;-)


Knicks have beaten Atlanta, Chicago, and Orlando during this streak. Wins
over Orlando and Atlanta were road wins.

The Crazy Met

    Last I heard, the Knicks were on their way to breaking the Pistons
    1989 record of average points allowed (89.n per game).  Anyone know how
    they stand with 2 weeks left?

I thought they were at about 90PPG - be tough to knock another
point off with 10 or so  games left.

The Crazy Met

 re -1

 Especially if they have to play the Nets again........

 hahaaa

 mike

yup Nets have been very tough on 'em this year. Sort of like the year
the Pistons couldn't beat the Knicks. Hopefully the Nets will end
up 7th and the Knicks 1st, or Nets 8th and Knicks 2nd and then someone
else can knock off the Nets in the first round.

The Crazy Met

    Well Craze,
    
    This could be Manhatten's nightmare; 
    Knicks vs Nets
    Rangers vs Islanders.
    
    Are ya quaking yet?
    
    MikeL
    

    The Knicks need to get their team healthy. In a playioff series things
    change quite a bit. The Knicks thrive on the extra intense atmosphere
    of the playoffs.
    
    It's really a strange team. They slumped,in late Feb.,losing four
    straight,then won 15 straight and now have dropped 3 of 4. The playoffs
    are their focus and the consistency should return. This week shapes up
    real tough with Orlando at home tonight and at Chicago Wednesday. 

re: .392

yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

Knicks have a chance to finish 1st or 2nd in the conference. Rangers
have to hope that the Isles don't finish 8th since Rangers clinched the #1 
seed.

The Crazy Met

    >The Knicks thrive on the extra intense atmosphere    of the playoffs.
    
    
    What leads you to this conclusion?  Last year's underachievment?
    
    brews

    The Knicks, with all their injuries, have been playing on emotion all
    season and it's remarkable they've had their success considering
    everything.  Will they have enough left to raise it another notch for
    the playoffs?

Hoping against hope that .396 and .397 are wrong and that I will
be pleasantly surprised.

The Crazy Met

    re -1
    
    chickensh!t.  Be a man and go out on a limb.
    
    brews

> chickensh!t.  Be a man and go out on a limb.
    
I would go out on a limb if it made any sense to do so. :-(

The Crazy Met

    Time to start a guessing pool:
    
    Are there any NY Bricks that can shoot over 50%?

    I'd say yeah... they have to have at least 1...
    

    "The rule of thumb is that a championship-caliber team requires 3
    legitimate scorers who will get their numbers every single night. 
    After Ewing and John Starks, whom do the Knicks have?  As we saw in the
    playoffs last spring, this team is too predictable in the half-court
    game and produces too few easy hoops in transition."  
    
    - Doug Collins, NBA Playoffs Preview, "Inside Sports", May 1994

    Maybe Hubert Davis?  Is that why they went 15-0 when he started?
    

    
    TCM the realist.
    
    During last nights game on TNT they went over 4 keys for a championship
    team.
    
    One was point differential, a second had to do with home record, I
    don't remember the 3rd. 4th was average 100 points/game last team to
    win a NBA title and not average at leat 100 ppg was Syracuse in 1955!
    Seattle and Houston qualified on all 4. Knicks met 3 criterai but are
    only scoring 98 ppg.
    
    Ewing may be shooting at 50%, not sure.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    After all those p-name bets he lost, it's only natural that TCM would
    be hedging.

po' po' Mac. Never hedged in a p_name bet and would probably make 'em
even though I'm concerned about the teams ability to win.

Repeat after me: rooting and logic are not the same - you still are
a Red Sox fan, right??

The Crazy Met

    TCM, how did Phoenix stack up on those 4 qualifications?

>>    TCM, how did Phoenix stack up on those 4 qualifications?

	They weren't even consider... da boom!!!!

 ;^)

re: .410

don't know. they did not show how various teams stacked up. only that
Seattle and, I think, Houston were the only 2 that had all 4 and that
the Knicks missed on the 100 ppg.

The Crazy Met

>    One was point differential, a second had to do with home record, I
>    don't remember the 3rd. 4th was average 100 points/game last team to
>    win a NBA title and not average at leat 100 ppg was Syracuse in 1955!
>    Seattle and Houston qualified on all 4. Knicks met 3 criterai but are
>    only scoring 98 ppg.
    
    Well here's a cut at it:
    
    1. Suns have a point differential of 4.5/pg.  They led the league in
       that last year with 7+/pg but I know Seattle is leading this year. 
       Phoenix should be in the top 4 in this.
    2. Suns are 32-5 at home, tied for 2nd best in the NBA.  Seattle is #1
       here too.
    3. ?
    4. Suns average 108ppg.  Far below their league leading 114+ppg last
       year.

woops, one correction - not home record it was away record. sorry
about that.

The Crazy Met

    Well Phoenix sips on the road this year, not even at .500.  They lead
    the league last year with a 27-14 road record, right now they're 18-21.

Why they'll get there
----------------------
On the strength of defense, rebounding, and coaching, the Knicks rate as the
favorite in a weak conference.  However, the window of opportunity has begun to
close quickly.  This may be the best chance for veterans such as Rolando
Blackmon, Derek Harper, Charles Oakley, and Patrick Ewing.

Why they won't
--------------
The rule of thumb is that a championship-caliber team requires 3 legitimate
scorers who will get their numbers every single night.  After Ewing and John
Starks, whom do the Knicks have?  As we saw in the playoffs last spring, this
team is too predictable in the half-court game and produces too few easy hoops
in transition.

X-factor
--------
Because their physical style doesn't play as well on the road, the home-court
advantage is of utmost importance to the Knicks.  They have to smother opponents
in their own building.

Player on the spot
------------------
Charles Smith.  Fairly or unfairly, many critics feel Smith has underachieved.
His inability to score from point-blank range in Game 5 of last year's
conference finals against the Bulls is still fresh in people's minds.  If he can
emerge as a third scorer behind Ewing and Starks the Knicks will get a big lift.

    
    
     How many teams has Doug Collins taken to the finals?
    
    

> Because their physical style doesn't play as well on the road

So why are they one of the few teams to have
a winning road record this year.

The Crazy Met

    What's their road record vs. playoff teams?  

re: .419

no idea. I thought you had those charts? I know they have beaten
Clevleand, Seattle, Portland, Orlando, Atlanta on the road. Not
sure about how many times or which other teams.

The Crazy Met

    They've lost to Phoenix, Houston, San Antonio, Utah, Golden St., Miami,
    New Jersey, and Indiana.

split with Chicago??

The Crazy Met

    What happened to the Knicks last night?

Knicks: good question. They led after the 1st quarter and nearly
pulled off a miracle at the end. Down by 7 with 1:40 or so left.
Lost by 3, Anthony got a decent 3 point attempt off with 2-3 seconds
left but it missed.

At least the Knicks get the #2 seed, but they could still have to
play 4 away in round 2 - depending how Atlanta/Chicago ends up.
Then of course it is likely that as the #2 seed they will play
the Nets in round1; would be nicer to be #3 and play Indiana, but
Knicks have clinched at least the #2 seed.

Knicks better snap out of it or they will be out of the playoffs
very early on.

The Crazy Met

but as the 2 seed, if the seeds hold wouldn't they have to play Da Bulls
and won't da Bulls have the homecourt advantage?

mike

re: .425

sorry if I was unclear. as the #2 seed the Knicks will likely play
the Bulls, but the Bulls could have homecourt advantage. My point
is that if that is the case the Knicks could be better off being
the #3 seed; as #3 seed they would still play the Bulls and the Bulls
would still have homecourt advantage (assuming Bulls have a better record)
so that is no worse than if they were #2. But as #3 seed they would probably
face Indiana in the first round, as #2 seed they will face the Nets. Knicks
have done a lot better against Indiana this season than against the Nets.

btw who would win a Knicks-Bulls tie breaker??

The Crazy Met

    I don't think you want to play the Nets in round 1, especially without
    Starks.  If you survive that, you get the Bulls in round 2.

re: .427

exactly. What is the Knicks-Hawks tie breaker?? Also if Knicks/Hawks/Bulls
were all tied (very unlikely since Knicks and Bulls have 25 losses and
play each other while the Hawks have 24 losses) what would be the tie
breaker used?? 

fwiw: For all 3 to be tied: 

1. Hawks must lose their last 2 games.

2. Knicks need to lose 1 of the next 2, Bulls need to win the next 1, Knicks
   need to win on Sunday, 
OR 
   Bulls need to lose next game, Knicks need to win next 2, Bulls need to 
   win on Sunday 

Very unlikely scenarios.

The Crazy Met

    Jeesh met, I haven't seen such sandbaggin since chu-lai.
    
    But for the record, hawks may take the hit vs heat down in miami to
    lock out hornets.  Someone has to do it.
    
    At least you can't sandbag with the mets.
    
    billte

billte,

I can see how one can make an argument, albeit misguided, that the
Rangers are the team to beat. But with 2 teams in the East close
to the Knicks, Seattle in the West and a possible matchup in
the first round against the Nets, what I've put in this note
is not exactly sandbagging it.

The Crazy Met

    Met,
    	I was just referring to this "Riley fears Nets" type of stuff.
    
    Although in reference to some other talk around here I would expect old
    derrick coleman to be loaded for bear in a knicks series - not to speak
    of kenny anderson playing in his home town so to speak
    
    	But Indiana is no slouch; they played knicks tough once before in
    playoffs

Nets are 4-1 against the Knicks this season. Winning by 20+ at least once.
Indiana is no slouch, but the Knicks match up much better against them.

The Crazy Met

    ...and that was against the Knicks *with* Starks!

Article: 12860
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Knicks Suspend Anthony Mason
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 17:10:23 PDT
 
	NEW YORK (AP) -- Anthony Mason, who complained over a recent
second-half benching, was suspended indefinitely Thursday by the
New York Knicks.
	The 6-foot-7 forward missed Thursday night's home game against
the Philadelphia 76ers.
	Mason had been critical of coach Pat Riley after sitting out the
second half of the Knicks' 87-84 loss against Atlanta. Riley went
instead with Charles Smith, who is coming off a knee injury and is
expected to be an important player for the Knicks during the
playoffs.
	Riley said Mason's status will be evaluated in the next few
days. The Knicks, bidding for the best record in the Eastern
Conference, had two more games left in the regular season after
Thursday night.
	Mason, a key reserve, has been was averaging 7.2 points and 5.8
rebounds in 26.1 minutes per game.
	``The core objective of the New York Knicks has been, is and
always will be team first and team last,'' Riley said. ``The
greatest challenge for a player, who is part of a team, is to
voluntarily get out of himself and get with the program.
	``To do that, sometimes you have to do things you don't want to
in order to achieve what the team wants. When it comes to that,
everyone has to sacrifice. It's very simple. You're either in or
you're out.''
	Riley said the suspension did not stem from one particular
incident or comment.
	``It's all about attitude, an attitude one takes to every game''
he said. ``Over the course of the year you always have problems
with some player. But at this point in the season we don't have
time for that.''

    Gotta credit Riley for sticking to principle's.
    
    
    Spud

    Did the Knicks win yesterday?  
    
    On the Nets series, this is all I dug out of the rotis conferences
    (rest of series didn't count for league play):
    
    Apr 10 -  NEW YORK (88) AT NEW JERSEY (107)
    
    If I find more on Internet, I'll post it here.
    
    Mike

The Knicks beat the Bulls, 92-76. The defense was described as "rugged".

TTom

    The Knicks were 1-4 against the Nets this season(0-3 at the
    Meadowlands-including two blowout losses).
    
    One shouldn't take these results too seriously when prognosticating a
    playoff series which is altogether different.  The Knicks will win in
    four. A close win in game 1,an easier win in game 2. A close loss in
    game 3 and a close win in game 4.

    Riley hasn't outcoached Daly yet.  It will be decided on the floor.

    So far the series has gone as predicted(see .438). Nets came in
    overconfident-had chances in both games but came up empty.
    
    Noteworthy was Daly's criticism of Net's preplayoff cockiness. He hopes
    his players now know regular season success does note translate into
    any playoff guarantees.
    
    Derrick Coleman,while talented,is overrated -not in the highest echelon
    of players-that can carry a team to higher success. Charles Oakley has
    been the dominant player on the floor.

    From the replay I saw on the news this morning, I don't understand why
    Ewing was tossed.  It looked like Coleman bumped him.

 because it was his second Technical. Automatic ejection....

 While I like Rodman that certainly was a dirty play on Stockton...

 mike

I believe the question that Mac was asking was why did Ewing get a teechnical 
on that play.

The Crazy Met

    Most of the officiating in the playoffs has been questionable at best
    so far:
    
    - letting the Hawks-Heat game get outta control.
    - ejection of Ewing.
    - letting Rodman stay in game 2 long enough to takeout Stockton after
      he took out Chambers twice before that.
    - ejection of Chambers for letting Rodman undercut him.
    - calling T's on Ceballos for trash-talking when Webber and Sprewell
      continually do it.
    
    I say we go back to the 2-man crews.  The addition of the 3rd ref has
    been a joke.  And bring back Earl Strom too.
    
    Mike

Probably becasue the ref was a-skeert that they was gonna hit each
other and start another bench-clearning brawl.....   

 I didn't see the play but MAc asked why he got tossed. Which I answered.
 Given that the refs have given NY just about every call in the book, I
 was surprised when I did tune in to see Ewing had been tossed. Probably
 a backlash from the Atlanta/Miami game the night before....

 If I was to guess why Ewing got a T when Coleman bumped him, it would
 undoubtably have to be for excessive WHINNING!!!!!!!!!!

 mike

    >    Perhaps he said the magic word.
    
    what exactly is that?  when reading lips, it's obvious they use every
    form of profanity known to man.  Where do they draw the line?  Comments
    about their mother?

unfortunately I was unable to watch either game. Hopefully I'll see
game 3, but I think it is at the same time the Rangers play game 2
against the Caps.

The Crazy Met

>    what exactly is that?  when reading lips, it's obvious they use every
>    form of profanity known to man.  Where do they draw the line?  Comments
>    about their mother?


If you watch Bull Durham you'll find out what the magic word is.

The first part of the word rhymes with Dock, and the last part rhymes
with Tucker.....


hth,
'Saw

    The ref on that play totally overreacted.  There was nothing worth
    calling on that play except perhaps double personals, or a foul only on
    Coleman.  For once, Ewing didn't do anything.  Mik Mathis is an over
    the hill bum who used to be a pretty good ref a decade ago but the game
    has definitely passed him by.
    
    NAZZ

    As for the game itself, the Nets are showing that they can talk the
    talk but they can't walk that walk!  ALl mouth, no action,  Chris
    Morris is gonna drive Chuck Daly to an early grave, between his no 
    deefense, stupid fouls, and mindless 3-pointers.  Derrick Coleman
    doesn't hit a FG after the first quarter, and Kenny Anderson has shown
    nothing in two games.  You don't win very many playoffs series by
    averaging barely 80 point per game.
    
    NAZZ

What have the Knicks been doing differently during this series from the
regular season?? Anderson killed them in the 5 regular season games.

The Crazy Met

>What have the Knicks been doing differently during this series from the
>regular season?? Anderson killed them in the 5 regular season games.

	1-	Harper is playing him very well

	2-	when Andersen turns the corner on Harper, other Knicks
		players are rotating to him


Isaiah got it right when he said that the Knicks' game plan is to take
Andersen out of the game.  Of the 2 (Coleman being the other), they've
chosen the guy with the ball most of the time.

Good strategy.

> I didn't see the play but MAc asked why he got tossed. Which I answered.
> Given that the refs have given NY just about every call in the book, I

C'mon Mike, Starks appeared to get bounced a few times in the 1st two games
and there was no call.  And how about that bucket they gave Edwards at the
end of the 3rd qrtr when the replay showed the ball hadn't left his hand
when the red light came on ???


As for the ejection of Ewing, it was his 2nd "T", so it was automatic.
My guess is that the ref gave both guys a "T" because he didn't see
what happened, only that the two were involved in a confrontation.
If he had seen it, there's no question Coleman should have gotten
the "T", and Ewing nothing.

    It doesn't seem so long ago that Celts had Knicks down 2-0, lost two in
    New York then that horrible game 5 at the garden.
    
    But it doesn't seem like Nets have that type of home advantage

> It doesn't seem so long ago that Celts had Knicks down 2-0, lost two in
> New York then that horrible game 5 at the garden.
                     ^^^^^^^^

I suppose that depends on your perspective.


Thanks, billte, for reminding me of that joyous moment. to many more like
them.

The Crazy Met

    Well using the analogy the nets will take two at home and knock of the
    knicks in the garden.

ignoring the point; it ain't gonna happen!

The Crazy Met

Article: 13027
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.local.new_jersey,clari.news.crime.misc,clari.news.law.crime
Subject: Nets Accused In Street Brawl
Date: Mon, 2 May 94 17:00:19 PDT
 
	HACKENSACK, N.J. (AP) -- New Jersey Nets star Derrick Coleman
says his play against the New York Knicks will not be affected
because police want to question him about a street brawl in which
three teen-agers were injured.
	The teens alleged that Coleman and teammate Jayson Williams were
among a group of men who fought with them outside a Manhattan bar
at 4 a.m. EDT Saturday, New York City police spokesman Scott Bloch
said.
	The fight allegedly took place about six hours after the Nets
lost a 91-80 decision to the Knicks in New York in Game 1 of their
best-of-5, first-round playoff. Coleman scored 27 points despite
needing four stitches to close a cut lip.
	The Knicks won again Sunday and can sweep the series Wednesday
night in East Rutherford.
	After practice at Fairleigh Dickinson on Monday, Coleman refused
to comment on the allegations or whether he was out early Saturday.
	``I'll let my lawyers handle that,'' said Coleman, who signed a
five-year, $37.5 million contract this season, tops in the NBA.
	Coleman's attorney, Harold MacDonald of Birmingham, Mich., said
he was in the process of hiring a Manhattan attorney to work with
him.
	``Right now, we're playing Joe Friday of `Dragnet' and trying to
get the facts and deal with it,'' MacDonald said by telephone.
	Coleman and Williams have not been charged, but detectives have
arranged to speak to them this week, Bloch said.
	Police did not know what sparked the dispute. One of the
teen-agers received six stitches for a head wound, another was
punched in the arm and the third sustained a hand injury, New York
Sgt. John McCluskey said.
	Coleman said he felt victimized in the wake of the allegations
but maintained his mind would be on the game when the Nets face
elimination from the playoffs Wednesday.
	``Nothing distracts me when I step on the court to play the game
of basketball,'' Coleman said. ``That's the only way I feel free,
away from everything. That's my release.''
	Nets coach Chuck Daly said he spoke with Coleman and Williams on
Monday, but beyond that he had no comment on the allegations. As
far as the incident being a distraction for the game, Daly said the
players will have to deal with it.
	Daly said it is no surprise that players are out late.
	``If you want to go around and check everyone in the league,
it's not as unusual as you think,'' he said. ``These guys live a
late lifestyle, as I do. I don't sleep well at night. We have
different lifestyle all year, which I help create with this
business of flying home after games and getting home at one and two
o'clock and being up to three or four every night.''
	He added: ``It's over and done with as far as I'm concerned.''
	Nets point guard Kenny Anderson said he didn't know anything
about the incident, but conceded some teammates might have been out
late during the playoffs.
	``That's life,'' he said. ``Everyone has their own agenda and
everyone has their own life they have to follow. But we are in it
for a goal and that's to be competitive on the playoff level. Right
now we're short of it.''

    	Hey these teenagers aren't the "unamed source" that saw Michael
    Jordan gambling at 2 in the morning last year, are they?
    
    				   /Don

    Who won last nights game?
    

    The Nets trounced them in OT.

> The Nets trounced them in OT.
           ^^^^^^^^

must be a new definition of the word.

Nets led most of the way, by 11 going into the 4th. Nets then proceeded
to not score a basket for 8-9 minutes. Knicks tied it, both teams had
chances to win in regulation. Nets won 93-92 in OT.

The Crazy Met

    TCM, you'd have to follow the Boston_Celtics conference to understand
    the definition of trounce.

well then please, enlighten me.

The Crazy Met

    Don't bother... 

    It's an inside joke not worthy of a Brick(tm) fan.

MikeH you're almost right. Its not worthy of any fan considering which
notesfile it's coming from.

The Crazy Met

    When you win 14 more titles, your comment will have merit.

>    The Nets trounced them in OT.

Could it be MikeH's burning desire for *anyone* to knock off the Knicks
before The Finals ?

Phoenix-Knicks is the ultimate Finals.  The clash of basketball styles
and philosophies...a history of mutual hatred...marquee names...*VERY*
competitive games...a SURE 7-gamer !  And 2 of the top 4 draws in the
country (Orl and Chi being the other 2).

Phoenix-Chi would be good too, because of the re-match.  But I think
Pho-NY would have more excitement and spark.

>Could it be MikeH's burning desire for *anyone* to knock off the Knicks
>before The Finals ?
    
    no, you're reaching.  I'd love to see a Phoenix-NY final because it
    would be a lot easier than facing Chicago again.  I was hoping for it
    last year just because of Da Bulls' experience factor, but then I
    figured you have to beat the best to be the best.
    
    Mike

    Yeah I found that odd too.  If you follow through on that, I guess all
    the teams that the Knicks harassed into fisticuffs share the same
    mutual hatred.  
    
    I'll at least grant the Knicks credit for tough interior defense.  The
    Suns have shown some improvement in this area in the playoffs thus far,
    but I personally like the way the Knicks execute the no-layup rule.
    
    Mike

    I found the comment on NY-Phoenix rivalry puzzling as well.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Gimme a break you nit-pickers.  History doesn't have to be measured in decades
of time.  If you prefer, "the two teams have established a mutual hatred
over the last 2 seasons".


MikeH, as for your statement that the Bulls would present the tougher challenge
for Phoenix, I can't say anything until the Knicks get past them.

>MikeH, as for your statement that the Bulls would present the tougher challenge
>for Phoenix, I can't say anything until the Knicks get past them.
    
    I meant that in terms of experience, matchups, balance (Off & Def), and 
    style of play.  NY's lack of balance (no Off) and lack of finals
    experience would hurt them.
    
    Mike

    >I'll at least grant the Knicks credit for tough interior defense.  The
    >Suns have shown some improvement in this area in the playoffs thus
    >far.
    
    I just want to check something before I die of laughter.  Is this the
    same Suns team that I watched on TNT (or was it TBS) that the
    announcers were wishing they could get into the game because of the
    LACK of defense.  The same team that saw something like 30 consecutive
    LAYUPS on them.  The same team that allowed 130 or so points in their
    last game.  Wait, on second thought maybe they have improved their
    interior defense.
    
    Marc, who also thinks Phoenix will be in the finals, but NOT for their
    interior defense.
    

Knicks pull out a 90-86 win in game 1 against the Bulls. Didn't see the game,
but heard that the Knicks were down 15 in the 3rd.

Go Knicks!!

The Crazy Met
 

    Re: Marc
    
    It's not so much as improved D for 48 minutes as it is improved D when
    it counts and when opponents' style dictate it.  The Warriors didn't
    play and D and the Suns beat them at their own game.  The Suns shut
    them down in 4 of their last 5 possessions during the last 2 minutes to
    ice the win.
    
    Yesterday, they came from 18 down against the Rockets in Houston to win
    it in the 4th quarter.  I never said they play D for 48 minutes, but it
    is improved when they do play it.
    
    Mike

    interesting stat in rockets vs suns series.
    
    During regular season the suns beat the rockets when the suns scored
    more than 100 points.  The rockets beat the suns when the suns scored
    less than 100 points.  Sunday was a change.  The suns score less than
    100 points and still win.  I think it is because of defense.
    
    Frank Mendez
    

    
    >but it is improved when they do play it
    
    Fair enough, I would agree with that statement.
    
    Marc
    

    Don't be silly, Frank.  Phoenix don't play D, just ask Tommy.

>    I meant that in terms of experience, matchups, balance (Off & Def), and 
>    style of play.  NY's lack of balance (no Off) and lack of finals
>    experience would hurt them.

I don't think the lack of Finals experience will hurt the Knicks, as they've
been in 3 consecutive premier match-ups with the Bulls, so pressure is
something they know a little about.  And Riley's certainly been there.

And NY's "at times" weak offense will look much better against the Suns'
defense.  The lane will look like a freeway to NY.  NY's defense will
present big problems for the Suns.  Like I said last week, it's the
ultimate Finals match-up.

>I don't think the lack of Finals experience will hurt the Knicks, as they've
>been in 3 consecutive premier match-ups with the Bulls, so pressure is
>something they know a little about.  And Riley's certainly been there.
    
    The Suns have been in the Western Conference Finals 3 of the last 5
    years and it didn't do squat for them last year.  It's a whole new
    ballgame.

>And NY's "at times" weak offense will look much better against the Suns'
>defense.  The lane will look like a freeway to NY.  NY's defense will
>present big problems for the Suns.  Like I said last week, it's the
>ultimate Finals match-up.
    
    Phoenix's D isn't as bad as NY's offense.

    Mike

Knicks would have home court if they played the Suns, right?

The Crazy Met

>    style of play.  NY's lack of balance (no Off) and lack of finals
>    experience would hurt them.
    
    The Knicks have been in the finals the last couple of years.  The NBA
    has just been giving equal time to the West.  The real finals were
    played in the East.

    That's what I hear.  Phoenix only won 56.  NY won 58 I think.
    

    Didn't Phoenix have home court last year?

    Unquestionably the good teams can win on the road, so home court in the
    very late rounds is no guarantee. But a team would still prefer a game
    7 on their home court.
    
    Consider that the Pistons finally broke through when they finally got
    home court advantage, same with the Bulls.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    What's the Knick line for tonight?

>    What's the Knick line for tonight?

	3 muggings a murder, and 10 fouls for Patrick.......

    
    
       But only 4 fouls called

I think it is Knicks favored by 4 1/2. Check out the Line note it is
in there. Over/Under is 177.

The Crazy Met

     What the hell is a Knickerbocker anyways? Sounds kind of kinky to me.

    Knickers are for sissies.

    Knicks once again clamp down on the Bulls in the 4th quarter and win
    96-91. Knicks were 4-8 points out much of the game until the end of the
    3rd. Then came the 4th and they simply took over the game.
    
    Now comes game 3. Knicks have led 2-0 in their last 4 playoff series
    and in each case lost game 3. Would be nice to see them win game 3 and
    be in position to close out this series in 4, or at least in 5 when
    they are back at home.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I watched the last few minutes of this and lemmee tellya, I hate
    the Knicks, their loudmouth fans, idiot celeb wannabees in the stands,
    their adoring sycophants,FrootLoops and Fatso, MSG, Manhatten
    cabdrivers, Marv Albert, Mike Breen, Clyde Frazier, that insipid
    "DEFENSE" chant,longhaired stoopid peanut vendors,Charles "I wanna
    look like MrT"Oakley,John Starks,Anthony"Lifer"Mason,Pat Riley,
    sneering ballboys, Gulf and Western, NY papers proclaiming another
    "Knick" dynasty,Bo Deetyl,Celtic-hatin'TCM, Derek Harper,the Yankees,
    Mets,Islanders,Devils,Giants,Jets,Columbia,St.Johns,ManhattanCollege,
    EmpireSt Building,StatenIsland,Queens,Brooklyn,Bronx,Manhatten,Long
    Island,Rye,Flushing,FortLee,Yonkers,TappanzeeBridge,LincolnTunnel,
    WashingtonBridge,Eisenhower,PhilRizzuto,DavidDinkens,Rudolph Juliani,
    AbeBeame,Ed Koch,JohnLindsay,FiorelloLaGuardia,JimmyWalker,Grant'sTomb,
    KennedyAirport,GreenwichVillage,LittleItaly,
    I'm tired..
    
    MikeL
    

    
    
    	Yabbut c'mon Mikel, quit straddling da fence & lemme know how ya 
    really feel!!!!!!
    
    	Oh yeah, howcome ya left out John Lindsey and Times Square??????
    
    I remain,
    instructin ya to go sit on a Dome
    Kev
    

> Mets,Islanders,Devils,Giants,Jets,Columbia,St.Johns,ManhattanCollege,
                                    ^^^^^^^^

hey, thats getting personal! :-)

The Crazy Met

    I included John Lindsey.
    I don't dislike Times Sq. Notice I left off Ewing(who I like).
    
    Feel free to add to my list Kev! 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    re: .503
    
    Sorry Mr. Leary- a lot of people outside of NY are getting very sick of
    watching NY teams win everything. 
    
    We have 5 teams still active-2 playing for the right to go to the
    Stanley Cup finals. Our basketball team is putting a big hurt on the
    defending champs.
    
    Our AL baseball team just pillaged Boston's only active team and has
    the best record in baseball and our NL team is playing far better than
    anyone thought they could. NY teams (with some exception) have the
    ability to get the best coaches who can trun around bad situations
    quickly.
    
    Two teams(Nets and Islanders) were eliminated in the kind of local
    skirmishes that happen nowhere else. So eat your hearts out.

    
    No Boston envy(well sorta).
    Don't worry about the Yanks,they'll end up 3rd. Mets, they sip period.
    Yea the Rangers are good, only took huge buckeroos to bring talent
    in developed elsewhere. How's the Ranger homegrown products doing?
    
    If ya like boring hockey, root for the Devils(yea they're good).
    In fack most Nyers only root for the Devils if  A) they can't watch
    the Rangers B) they get free tickets. Watch how many Ranger fans
    end up in Hoffa Arena.
    
    I hate the Knicks pure and simple. I admire their talent but the phony
    greased-up twit behind the bench is the hypocrite. Funny how he got
    religion and discovered the rough play when he got to NY.
    
    But Dave I gotta hand you one thing.. you stayed down there. We're
    saddled with that carpetbagger TCM up here.. Take him Back!!
    
    MikeL
    

   
|    I hate the Knicks pure and simple. I admire their talent but the phony
|    greased-up twit behind the bench is the hypocrite. Funny how he got
|    religion and discovered the rough play when he got to NY.
 
Rat on Mikey...   
 

    
    New York just tends to let you know about it when they're going good.
    They're not shy.  For example, really the only thing I didn't like
    about Yankee Stadium was the annoying, blaring, 100-decibel in-your-face
    mindless repetitive rap and dance riffs they'll crank up at any point 
    in the game when anything good happens for the Yanks.  It's just not 
    fitting of the place, of a place I have great respect for as the center
    of the Yankee tradition.  They try to balance off that crap with the 
    refined dignity of the great PA announcer Bob Sheppard, and it just 
    doesn't work.  The poor guy must go into shock or something when he 
    looks out over Monument Park in a momentary reverie on the great old 
    days and has his neck snapped back by an explosive refrain of 
    "Whoop! Dere it is!"  ;-) 
    
    MikeL, I guess I'd say the best thing is just to let go of any of these
    pent-up angry hostilities and say to yourself, let the New Yorkers
    enjoy themselves at whatever is their idea of having fun.  I personally 
    am not a bit jealous of the antagonistic atmosphere created by the sports
    teams themselves (not just in New York, but they're damn good at it), but 
    to each his own...
    
    glenn
    

    Yabbut,
    My guru says it's good to vent.
    
    MikeL
    

re: .507

hmm, I don't recall belittling other rivalries, rather I do recall
explaining the Rangers-Islanders rivalry to misguided souls such as
yourself.

The Crazy Met

    	I missed the game last night, but Sunday it looked like Woody
    Allen was sitting with a 15 year old.  Good to see he's dating older
    women again...
    
    				/Don

    /Slasher, I thought that was his daughter/girlfriend.

Mac, one more thing we disagree on. 

The Crazy Met

    I still don't see how a team like the Islanders can have no fan 
    support all season long, then have people show up for an "event" like 
    Rangers-Islanders and declare it one of the greatest rivalries in
    sports.  Do the fans know who the players are?  Are they aware of the
    rules?  Why are there two blue-colored lines but only one red one?  In 
    Boston fans like that (and yes there are some, but they're in the 
    minority, as Bruins-Celts-Red Sox have solid season-long fan support,
    year after year) are considered frontrunners and are treated with the 
    utmost contempt...
    
    glenn
      

    
        re .518
    
        It really doesn't make any sense at all. But if TCM wants to
        believe that it's more intense than the current Dodgers-Giants
        rivalry among others let him. He can be really nasty when you 
        show him that he's wrong again and again and again and again. 

Tommy I know that you have something to say without resorting to 
misquoting people.

a real shame that you feel the need to stoop to ACC Crisp levels.

re: .518
Thanks for confirming my point. They are showing up for the rivalry.

The Crazy Met

    
    Harper suspended for 2 games, English for one. Great comeback by the
    Knicks from 22 down falls short. Kucoc scores with tiem running out for
    104-102 game 3 win. Pippen is pissed that the final play is not called
    for him and sits out the play. Way to go Scotty.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

  >> Tommy I know that you have something to say without resorting to 
  >> misquoting people.

     It must have been your doppelganger who said that intra-city rivalries
     are the most intense going and there's no comparison between them and
     others. 
    

    Yabbut,
    Bulls come back to knot series. They finally show up in the 4th
    quarter. NY has gots to wake up more in the first three Q's.
    Knicks jumped out to big lead, fall asleep, and watch Bulls take
    it away. If the Bulls cain maintain some 4th quarter consistency,
    Knicks could be in trouble.
    
    MikeL
    
    

    Is the Ranger-Islander rivalry as intense as the Knick-Bull rivalry?

    didn't see the game on Friday, was Harper so much more culpable that he
    got a 2 game suspension? 
    
    Game 5 is once again pivotal. sigh :-(, Knicks should have been able to
    put the Bulls away in 5 if they only learned that the game is 4
    quarters and not just the last one.
    
    

>    didn't see the game on Friday, was Harper so much more culpable that he
>    got a 2 game suspension? 
    
     Yes.    

 |   didn't see the game on Friday, was Harper so much more culpable that he
 |   got a 2 game suspension? 
  
I dunno TC*, but her certainly was stoopid.  Losing JoJo English as opposed 
to New York losing Harper is a deal da Bulls would make any day.

    >didn't see the game on Friday, was Harper so much more culpable that
    >he got a 2 game suspension?
    
    I also did not see the game, but after countless replays and being a
    fan of neither team, I am really confused.  Harper did NOT throw the
    first punch/arm waving/whatever you want to call it, JoJo English did. 
    Concerning the takedown, it is very difficult to determine if English
    was pushing or Harper was pulling or both before Harper did a spin and
    thus the takedown.  I could see no reason why they got different
    penalties.
    
    Does anyone else think they should start fining them via a "your pay
    for 2 games" instead of a small $15,000 or something like that...
    
    Marc
    

    >> Knicks should have been able to put the Bulls away in 5 if they only
    learned that game 4 quarters and not just the last one.
    
    It's the other way around bud. Bulls should have sweept the Knicks if
    they only realized the game has a 4th quarter. They have outplayed the
    knicks in every game until that 4th quarter.
    
    Guess it dependes on how you look at it.

What he said.

Da Bulls have outplayed the Knicks in all but 2 quarters of the series.

On the other hand the bulls were lucky to win game 3, no thanks to
Pippen's antics.

TTom

re: Harper

Live by the sword, die by the sword. It doesn't matter whether the
call was good or bad, the Knicks have played thug-ball all year
and it cost them in this series. Their problem is that they're
not that good at it. If you remember the Pistons "glory" years,
every time they got behind they'd try to start a fight, and then
they would inevitably go on a run. NY isn't that good at feeding
off the adrenaline - their fights are costing them, big time.

josh

    I'm glad someone else saw it that way (RE: the Bulls shoulda swept
    the Knicks).
    
    They choked in two away games that would have helped them ice it.
    
    The Bulls have played longer than any other team since the turn of the
    decade, they must be getting pooped.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Knicks win game 5 87-86. Close game all the way through for a change.
    Bulls took their first lead in the 4th at 86-85. Pippen fouled Davis
    with 2.8 seconds ledt, Davis hit botht free throws. Knicks stole the
    inbound pass and won the game exorcising the ghosts of game 5 last
    year. Anthony had a pretty good game. Harper is back for game 6 on
    Friday night. I expect that the series will go 7 games, at least the
    Knicks get to play it at home.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    So was it a foul or not? Or a make-up call for last year's game 5
    no-call at the end of the game? 
    
    
    MikeL
    

    
      The Knicks win and TCM shows up. Coincidence?

    It was a foul.  Was it a foul that gets called at the end of a game?
    Not really...
    

 Knicks steal inbound pass that's rich TCM. Like Walt said yeah it's a
 foul but not one they'd have called if the shoe was on the other foot
 so to speak. Then to let Mason grap and then push Pippen like that on
 the inbound play without a call was bush.....

 Did anyone else notice the stairs on Longley's back????????? 

 mike

MikeyC, sorry bud, they didn't call no steeenkin' foul on Mason so it
was a steal.

HtH,

The Crazy Met

    It was a terrible no call, 'specially since they called the dink 
    after the horrible air-trey-miss.  Scottie screwed up going up that
    close with him, he should just stayed in his face.
    
    What a wussy ending.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

It is always sooooo enjoyable to see fans of the Celtics and the Bulls
who for years had the calls go there way start bitchin' when
the shoe is on the other foot. Bitch all you want but the Knicks lead
the series 3-2!

Come to think of it I don't recall you complaining about
the call or non-call last year in game 5, or about the non-call in
game 3 in Cleveland this year - that was indisputably a foul. 

GO KNICKS!!!! 

The Crazy Met

    No one is disputing the fact that the Celts and Bulls, Lakers,
    Pistons etc received favorable calls in their heydays.
    
    But the Knicks especially in MSG have *always* enjoyed that.
    Do you not remember the Knick champeenship teams of the early
    70's? Hell the Celts fielded decent teams in /72 and '73 and IMO
    got jobbed by homecooking agin the Knicks. Yea and we all
    know it comes with the territory. Point is that the Knicks got
    just as much home shake and bake.
    
    BTW Craze, are you predicting a Knick title now or are ya gonna
    mamby-pamby it ala Rangers??
    
    MikeL
    

MikeL I predicted a Knicks title in that contest that someone is running.
See 10.1649

And the Knicks got jobbed by home cooking against the Celtics in 1974.

Knicks once again started getting some disputed calls in their favor the
last 2-3 years. Bitchin' about those calls when your team gets lots
of them - ie Bulls - is truly mind boggling.

The Crazy Met

|And the Knicks got jobbed by home cooking against the Celtics in 1974.

1974! That's really relevant.  In 1974 I was a junior in high school.  Willis 
Reed was battling Dave Cowens.  

I suppose the Rangers got jobbed agains the Broon in 1971 too!

=Bob=

=Bob=

If you want to bitch about the 1974 comment, first bitch about the
one in .541 about 1972 and 1973 or did you ignore those because
it was about the Celtics not getting the calls????????

Uh, how did the Rangers get jobbed by the Bruins in 1971?? Let see.
In 1971 the Canadians beat the Bruins in the first round of the playoffs,
Rangers lost to the Hawks in 7 games in the semifinals - Bobby Hull
goal off a faceoff late in the 3rd.

You might mean 1972. And from what I recall there was nothing to complain
about in that series.

The Crazy Met

re: .541

> But the Knicks especially in MSG have *always* enjoyed that.

no more than the Celtics in Boston Garden.

The Crazy Met

    
    
    -1
    BINGO!! You're creating an argument here Craze. Where have I stated
    that the Celts never got home cooking? Your original message implied
    the po' Knicks were always victimized; a ridiculous assertion.
    Thanks for the implied capitulation.
    
    I wanna hear more about the Knicks gettin' jobbed agin the Celts
    in '74. Don't recall any details of that (why would I, the good guys
    won!). BTW which year ('73?) was it that Havlicek was basically playing
    one-handed?
    
    MikeL
    
    

Havlicek was injured in 1973. But if you want to get into that rathole Ratelle
was injured in March of 1972; at that time the Rangers were leading the NHL
in points. Injuries suck but they are part of the game.

.540 was not meant to imply that the Knicks always got jobbed, just that
it was enjoyable to hear Bulls fans complain about not getting a call
after having gotten them for a number of years.

The Crazy Met

    I wasn't offering Havlicek as an excuse in '73, just trying to figure
    out what year he was injured.
    
    MikeL
    

yeah Knicks-Celts mixed it up often in the early 1970's. 

In 1973 the Celtics won 60+ games. I seem to recall the Knicks
won game 7 in Boston. In 1974 the Celtics beat the Knicks.

They might have met at least once in 1970-2. They certainly met in 1984
and 1989.

The Crazy Met

    
      You can say rivalry all that you want, TCS. Just don't try 
     and tell anyone that a team that has pathetic fan support is
     part of a rivalry greater than the Cowboys-Skins. It gives you
     even less credibility than your awful hockey prognosticating 
     skills. And that's saying something.
    

There 'ya go again putting words in peoples mouths. 

Tommy doesn't have facts to back him up so resorts to fraud. Coincidence??

The Crazy Met

    
          Here's a golden oldie that I'm sure you'll all love...
    
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Note 44.73               Official New York Rangers Note                73 of 348
METSNY::francus "Mets in '94"                        16 lines  11-APR-1994 16:27
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Ain't no sandbaggin'

If you had ever followed the Islanders vs Rangers games since the 1976(I think
that was the Isles first year in the playoffs)playoffs you would understand why
the last team the Rangers want to meet in the first round, as heavy favorites,
is the Islanders.

Only a place that has 2 teams in the same sport that compete against
one another can really have this kind of a rivalry. Sure there are
inter-city rivalries that are very intense; but intra-city rivalries
are a different type of thing.

The Crazy Met



    

> Only a place that has 2 teams in the same sport that compete against
> one another can really have this kind of a rivalry. Sure there are
> inter-city rivalries that are very intense; but intra-city rivalries
> are a different type of thing.

uh, yeah, so ...

the rivalries are different. Note that there was no statement about
better or worse just different

The Crazy Met

      Note the title line, TCS. "More than inter-city ones". In plain
      english. Of course, we both know how the series played out. And
      note the insult at the end where once again you hurt my feelings.
      If I were a sensitive, soap opera-watching kind of guy like Saw,
      I probably would've broken down and cried all over my keyboard.
     
    
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Note 44.76               Official New York Rangers Note                76 of 348
METSNY::francus "Mets in '94"                        15 lines  11-APR-1994 16:45
           -< not quite Dodger-Giant, but more than inter-city ones >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tommy, 

I'll ignore your complete ignorance of history. Rangers vs. Islanders
is the kind of rivalry where even today when the regular season in the
NHL means very little, regular season games between these two teams
are played with the kind of intensity you only expect in the playoffs.
It doesn't matter how good one team is or how bad the other team is
when they play against each other the outcome is not predictable.
So for once in your life get a clue and then once you do maybe you can
have an intelligent conversation on the topic.

The Crazy Met



    

po' po' Tommy.

The Crazy Met

    REK should give Tommy one of his dogs so he can pull his Alexander Haig
    routine on it.

    
    re .555
    
    Busted!
    
    re .556
    
    I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess that makes us even
    because you probably don't either.
    

>re .555
> Busted!

in your dreams! 

>   re .556

> I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess that makes us even
> because you probably don't either.

one disappointment after another today. does this mean that you
are not a mind-reader, Tommy???

The Crazy Met

> I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess that makes us even
> because you probably don't either.
    
    If you really were the God of Woofing, you would know.

    Here's some history re. Celtics vs Knicks, post-Russell era:
    
    1973 Eastern Conference Finals:  Knicks 4, Celtics 3
    This was the year Boston won 68 games, and Havlicek separated his shoulder.
    1974 Eastern Conference Finals:  Celtics 4, Knicks 1
    Boston went on to defeat Milwaukee (and Kareem ) for the NBA title.
    
    The Knicks and Celtics did not meet again in the playoffs for ten years.
    1984 Eastern Conference Finals:  Celtics 4, Knicks 3
    Boston went on to defeat the Lakers (and Kareem )for the NBA title.
    1988 Eastern Conference First Round:  Celtics 3, Knicks 1
    Boston then beats Atlanta in 7 (the famous Bird-Wilkins 4th quarter),
    but lose to the Pistons in the conference finals.
    1990 Eastern Conference First Round:  Knicks 3, Celtics 2
    New York stuns Boston by taking last three games of series.
    
    NAZZ

    Bulls win tonight.  1 altercation.  Close game until about 2 minutes
    when another questionable call gets made... to make up for the one on
    Davis by Pippen on Wednesday.
    

    Agreed Walt,
    
    NBC needs that huge TV audience for Sunday. Knicks win on Sunday
    in 3 OT. Pippen goes to punch Starks, misses, hits ball instead which
    banks off Ewing into the net for the winning basket.
    
    MikeL
    

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Note 108.535                     New York Knicks                      535 of 563
MSBCS::BRYDIE "TCM - World's Greatest Sandbagger"     2 lines  19-MAY-1994 08:48
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>      The Knicks win and TCM shows up. Coincidence?
    
    ooh, darn Tommy Knicks lost and here I am, po' po' Tommy can't get
    anything right.
    
    from what I read(missed the game) Knicks played a truly unispired game
    in game 6. Hopefully home court will be the cure for game 7.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Two of the most magical words in sports:
    
    Game 7
    
    
    Lets get ready to rumble!
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Lots more fun being in here after a win. Ghosts of the last few years
    are exorcised. Knicks better not take the Pacers lightly or they will
    be in for a rude surprise.
    
    Some random thoughts about the series:
    
    Ewing's bank shot 3 pointer in game 7 was reminiscent of his 3 pointer
    in game 5 against the Celtics in 1989.
    Knicks finally came out and played for a full game and not just one or
    two quarters. First game they led at the half.
    Bulls dominated the games in Chicago. But the season is played to
    determine home court advantage and Knicks won the right to play 4 at
    home. Bulls had a golden chance in the 1st half with Ewing and Starks
    not scoring to do some damage but the Knicks defense held them.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Ewing played big time in the second half and those back-to-back 3's by
    Starks were a beautiful sight. Anthony burying a 3 at the end of the
    3rd wasn't too shabby.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I can't see the Knicks, Yanks and Rangers win in the same year. 
    Something will have to give...
    

    	Hey NAZZ, don't forget 1972.  Knicks beat the Celtics in five
    games (I was there for games 1 and 5), then lost to the Lakers in
    5 in the Finals.  Wouldn't it be fun to see the new Rich and Famous
    Knickerbocker fans watch their favorite team lose to the Indiana
    hicks?                                                   
    
    				  /Don

    Pat said it all "I'd like to do something I thought I'd never do, thank 
    the Boston Celtics for something.  By beating Chicago on the last game of 
    the year, it gave us home court advantage..."
    
    Be very afraid of the Pacers.  They are playing out of their friggen
    minds right now...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    I can't see the Knicks winning game 1... from there, it's a slugfest...
    

    
     Nice piece by Bob Ryan in yesterday's Globe about what a collection
    of punks these Knicks are. I'd imagine that being a Jersey boy, Ryan
    must have been a Knicks fan once upon a time. Yesterday he came down
    hard on Riley, Starks, Anthony and everyone else save Ewing (who
    got a minor shot) and Hubert Davis. No axe to grind just stating the
    facts. IMO, the bonus of being from the number one market that the 
    Knicks would bring if they were in the Finals would be more than offset 
    by their ugly (and dirty) style of play that really is unwatchable by 
    all but Knicks fans and the type of folks who cheer outside of prisons 
    when an inmate has been executed. And those two groups overlap greatly.

Bob Ryan ALWAYS has an axe to grind. The two-faced mealy-mouth now wants
to get on Ewing's good side and so writes a nice article in this morning's
Globe.

And it will be a real pleasure being able to say NY Knicks 1994 NBA Champions.

The Crazy Met

    That's true.  If it's not the Knicks then it's the Pistons or the Exit
    16W whatevers....