Conference foundr::firearms

    
    A friend of mine is looking for some pieces-parts for a Mosin-Nagant
    "Ski Gun".  Apparently there were a few made especially to be
    carried by ski troops.  I don't know just what parts he's missing.
    Any help would be appreciated.

    fred();

    >  <<< Note 3462.48 by CSC32::HADDOCK "Pas Fini!" >>>
    
    > ...  carried by ski troops. I don't know just what parts he's missing.
    
    
    Skis. Boots. Bindings. Gloves. Parka. Lift Ticket. $$$.
    
    Anything else I can be of help with?

    The only reference I know of is that some of the Finn guns had two sets
    of sling loops.  One set were placed on the side of the rifle so that
    it would lay flat on the back.
    
    Of course the other use might be for using against skiers who insist on
    wearing obnoxious colors.
    
    Jim Feldman
    President and sole member of TAN (Telemarkers Against Neon)

    send mail (or wait for csc32::d_peltonen) -- the local reigning champ
    on Finn Mosins... if he doesn't know; *nobody* knows...
    
    

    
    aw, shucks, ma'am......:)
    
    Fred, you or your friend are welcome to call or send mail; if
    there's anything I can do to help locate stuff I will. One thing
    we'd all need to know upfront is the exact model of the rifle,
    or at least an accurate description so I can make a WAG. 
    
    Reason the model would be important is that there were few
    designated "ski models". There were, however, various modifications
    to some models to facilitate ski useage....mostly with sling
    swivels as mentioned. For example, the Finn M27 when set up
    for skiing had a rotating swivel on the butt as opposed to the
    fixed swivel of the standard issue. This rotary swivel worked
    in conjunction with a front loop device that utilized the 
    cut-through on the stock where the leather thong usually went
    through; the device converted that to a side-mount sling loop.
    This change was eventually adopted into the M39 rifles as that
    was their "all-services, all-purpose" design....hence the bottom
    and side loops on that 39 of yours.
    
    Now, the actual model intended for ski use was the bent-bolt
    M27 with shortened barrel....virtually impossible to find. There
    were a few imported back in the '60s but good luck finding one.
    
    When I used to buy lots of Finn Mosins, one I shoulda kept
    and left as-received was a M27 painted all white....this thing
    was incredibly beat and the stock had a big hunk mising, so
    I parted it out. That rifle was a real veteran of the Finn ski
    troops, however, and in retrospect I should have stuck it
    on the wall. The Finn ski troops were feared by Russians during
    the '39 war....they were incredible marksmen by day and by
    night were very accomplished with their knives.....
    
    DAP
    

    re .52
    
    Thanks, if you don't mind, I'll probably give him your number and let
    the two of you hash it out between you.  Not that I don't find the
    whole thing interesting, but it tends to lose something in the 
    translation.
    
    fred();

    Now for my next question.  Does anyone know where to get 7.62x54R
    Boxer primed brass.  Reasonable.  The only thing I've been able 
    to locate is some Norma full loads.  Nachez had the dies (Lee) but
    no brass.  Someone earlier in this note mentioned Hansen.  That was a 
    few years ago.  Are they still around?  Anyone else who has any
    surplus stuff that is Boxer primed?

    fred();

    I went cruising on the "net" yesterday looking for someone who has
    7.62x54 brass.  Thein only thing I could find was Norma @ $75/100.
    Nice brass, but that's about as much as I paid for the rifle.  But
    if worse comes to worse....  I did find one company that makes 
    something to cut the ends off the fmj ammo to turn it into hunting
    ammo.
    
    Also found that RCBS makes some equipment to re-cap berdan primed
    brass, but I could not find anybody that supplies berdan primers.
    Does anybody know any place that sells berdan primers?  I did see
    one place (Huntington) where CCI makes "military" primers.  Would 
    these be the same?
    
    fred();

   Back before boxer primed 7.62x39 casings were readily available there were
a couple places offering kits to make berdan primed casings into boxer primed.
My guess is that it as basically a jig for drilling out the flash hole.  Not
sure if this would work with the  7.63x54 what with the higher pressures and all
but it's a thought.  FWIW I searched a big gun show in Denver this weekend and
no one had 7.62x54 brass...

Al

    
    I thought berdan and boxer primers were slightly different in size.
    I guess I could dig a couple of berdan primers out and mike them.
    
    fred();

    Huntington sells RWS berdan primers. These are not the same as the CCI
    military primers. You will need to measure one of your berdan primers.
    A nutpick works well if you don't have an RCBS berdan decapper.
    
    If the size of the berdan primer is such that one of the boxer primer
    seating tools doesn't work, then I turn the  berdan case upside down in
    a washerover my press, place the primer in the hole. place a wooden 
    dowel over it (larger than primer) & tap 'gently' with a small rubber 
    mallet. I've never had one go off, but make sure the case isn't
    obstructed when you do this.
    
    Randy
    
    
    Randy
    

    Old Western Scrounger had Lapua brass for about 50 cents per.
    
    jim

    
    Last night I dug the primers out of a 7.62x54 and a berdan primed
    30-06 case.  The inside of the primer pocket measured 
    7.62x54      .247
    30-06 berdan .210
    30-06 boxer  .205

    I tried a boxer primer in the 30-06/berdan and it fell right out.
    So that answers one question.  

    Ok, I'll bite.  50 cents per what?  each? 100?
    
    fred();

    	I'll check last year's Huntington catalog which lists the
    dimensions of the common Berdan primers. You may want to measure the
    height of the primers as well, as several of the berdan primers have
    the same diameter, but differont height.
    
    Randy
    

    
    I ain't seen a whole helluva lot of reloadable 7.62 other than
    the Norma, sorry to say. I once saw a guy pay $40 for a box of
    ammo to feed his $35 Mosin......
    
    Now, I've never tried to reload Berdan-primed brass, so I'll
    defer to Randy on that one. However, one thing I'd like to add
    is that with all the super-cheap FMJ ammo out there, a decent
    supply of plinkin' ammo can be had for short money, so those
    needs are well met for me. Which leaves any potential hunting
    use....and for that the best deal in town always was that new-
    production commercial Russian 200-gr softpoint that was around
    until Klint got involved :( That stuff is around $10/box/20
    when you can find it. I have it on good authority that Acme Pawn
    on East Platte just lucked into a whole case (24 boxes, won't
    last forever). I've got a some of that stuff squirreled away as
    a cheap Mosin makes a dandy camp gun when stoked with softpoint.
    Still non-reloadable, but what the hey....
    
    I've also heard of guys breaking down surplus FMJ and reloading
    it with .311 commerical bullets and IMR powder. Doesn't sound
    like a bad idea if you are only making up a small lot for hunting.
    Only caution I'd make is to be careful about which surplus you
    use for this; the Bulgarian seems mighty brittle and prone to
    cracking.
    
    DAP
     

    50 cents a shell for the lapua, and over a $1 per shell for norma
    
    jim

    
    Well I e-mailed huntington (hds@sunset.net).  They no longer carry
    berdan primers.  They recommended Old West Scounger
    (oldwest@snowcrest.net).  I had looked at Old West Scrounger's web
    site last night.  They have them listed at about $10 (don't remember
    exact price) per 250.  It's beginning to look like by the time
    I'd buy the RCBS decapper, etc.  It would probably be just as well
    to spring for the Laupa brass.  If I remember right, the Laupa was
    listed from Oldwest, but if anyone as a list of any other supplier
    that might be more reasonable priced I wouldn't mind hearing about it.
    
    It seems like a lot of people are putting out the 7.62x39 now, so maybe
    it won't be too long before a few more realize the 7.62x54 might work.  
    
    fred();

    I got a quick reply from Oldwest Scrounger.  
    Berdan primers $15/100---ouch!
    fred();

    Did that include the hazmat charge of $10?
    
    If so, then you only pay that once per order of any amount of primers
    (up to 60 some pound of stuff).
    Randy
    

    
    re .66
    
    Didn't say.  The listing on the web site was for $10/250.  So the 
    $10/100 may well include the hazmat charge.  At either price, I
    probably won't be pursuing it.  When you add in the cost of the
    RCBS decapper, even the Norma brass is cheaper in the long run.
    
    fred();