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Conference cscma::power_products

Title:POWER PRODUCTS
Moderator:NECSC::STOWELL
Created:Tue Jul 12 1988
Last Modified:Tue May 20 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:372
Total number of notes:215

372.0. "Power problem, please help." by HGOVC::NORMANTSUI () Sun May 04 1997 09:54

    Hello,
    
    I have following questions, please help.
    
    1. Can Dranetz 606 series can measure/detect a power drop of 1 cycle?
    2. If a power system loss 1 cycle of power, can we consider it is 
       acceptable?
    
    It is because our customer is switching power souce as routine
    maintenance. Sometimes our system reboot, but HP and Suns system
    does not.
    
    /Norman
        
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372.1AC_LOW/POWER_DOWN/DC_LOWCSCMA::MOOREJRTue May 20 1997 06:4780
    Norman -
    
    1. Yes.  The Dranetz 606 can detect the 16-20 ms.
    
    2. This question is not so easily answered.  Basically at 50-Hz, the
    drop-out is about 20-ms.  Older systems will likely fail.  Our newer
    ones should not.  See EL00122-00, page 20.  Find this through SMC on
    VTX or at http://www-server.mso.dec.com/elclass/dec_stds.htm.  Specific
    methods for measurement are given in EL00122-01.
    
    In Figure 5: (not shown here - refer to EL00122-00)
    t1 is ride-through time. It represents the time required to sense ac
    power loss and to provide an output signal to initiate power down
    routine.  This ride-through time may be any number greater than 0. The
    shorter this time is made however, the greater the frequency of
    nuisance shutdowns will occur due to short power line disturbances and
    noise. This time should be made as long as possible consistent with
    other product and system requirements and trade-offs of size and cost.
    
    t2 represents the duration required to guarantee orderly power-down of
    computer operation. This duration is determined by product and system
    requirements. A typical value might be 5 ms to store all volatile
    registers away in nonvolatile memory.
    
    t3 represents the duration of valid power remaining following the
    completion of t2. This time may be any duration equal to or greater
    than 0.
    
    t1 + t2 + t3 = hold-up time
    
    New power supply designs that must interface with existing power fail
    detect circuitry must provide sufficient hold-up capacity to be
    consistent with the specific power fail detect circuit specifications.
    
                                     NOTE
    Typically 20 ms hold-up time duration is required.
    
    New power supply designs incorporating their own power fail detect
    circuitry must provide sufficient hold-up capacity to be compatible
    with the detect circuitry and with the appropriate system specification
    in which they will be used.
    
    It really depends on how loaded the power supplies are and how large the
    regulator capacitance is for the dc-buss.  Truly, the system does 
    not care what happens to the AC input, so long as the dc-buss remains
    valid.  But the system has only milli-seconds to save context on a
    power fail, so the entire process starts when the AC power falls below
    a critical value and stays there for a certain time, t1 above, perhaps
    5-8 ms. While power is VALID, the power-down routine runs and when
    complete, POWER_VALID is de-asserted, t2 above.  Then the dc-buss is
    dropped, t3 period above.  What will happen if the AC power is
    re-asserted and AC_LOW is de-asserted during this process?? That will
    depend, I think, upon the firmware control routines within the machine.
    Batteries are used in some systems to sustain the dc-buss for
    longer periods and power control routines (firmware) in the system can
    enhance this operation.  
    
    Do the Sun and HP use battery backup??  Do our systems in this
    particular instance??
    
    "If a power system loses 1 cycle of power, can we consider it is
    acceptable?"  Are you asking for a specification for a specific system?
    Or is your question more general?  Each system has a tolerance, but
    generally all of our systems will run with 8-10 ms outage, regardless
    of age or style and newer ones should run for about 20-ms.  
    
    You can find TMs for almost all of our newer systems on TICAP using 
    browser (Netscape or Internet Explorer) at http://neacs4.das.dec.com/ 
    The TM for your specific system may provide some further information.
    
    If you cannot find some information which helps you, please contact the
    EEC at CSCMA::DSN%EEC and we will find an answer for your specific
    question
    
    I've sent a separate message to you with some contact info and further
    information.
    
    JR Moore
    EEC Support