Conference csc32::fxrs89::cycles

    Bart,
    
    
     Try spraying carb cleaner directly into the carbs. 
     Check your plugs for fouling ?
     Are you choking it correctly, this is your first cold spring with it
     correct.
    
     Brian
     

    ALL late model Hondas with higher than 9.5:1 compression MUST have
    their carbs drained/run dry BEFORE putting the machine away for EVEN
    a WEEK! 
    
    Four valve heads are a marvel of efficiency when everything's
    functioning well...down to the fuel/air mixture molecules. 
    Stale low grade fuel and high compression are an ornery combination.
      
    Your carb jets and likely float valves have accumulated evaporated fuel
    varnish and likely either starving or flooding your engine until things
    loosen up via fuel flow, engine heat, vibration etc...definitely NOT
    the way Honda intended your bike to behave. 
    
    It sounds like you left fuel in the carbs and perhaps a less than 1/2
    full tank.  Draining them now isn't much help, the damage is done...
    
    Sidebar science lesson:  Fuel evaporates and gets contaminated ALL BY 
    ITSELF when exposed to atmosphere... the volatility of the fuel vapors
    expands and contracts within the air space in both float bowls and the 
    tank which draws in air and humidity via their respective vents.  The 
    air evaporates the fuel and the moisture corrodes the tank and carb parts.
    Eventually, the fuel is rendered down to an inert goo which won't flow 
    and won't burn in the engine... 
    Voila!  Sheeza no start and sheeza no run good no more.
    
    Once it is that bad, the entire fuel system has to be removed, taken 
    apart and cleaned.  
    
    In your case, I think it's curable by running the bike clean.  I'd use
    an equal parts mixture of equal parts of Acetone, Isopropyl-alcohol
    and prep-solv (acryl-solv), or go out and get the `one-shot' variety of
    fuel inj. cleaner, (in the BLACK bottles).  Generic (cheapest) brands
    of this stuff is O.K., it's all the same crap.  Put in 1/4-1/3 bottle
    just before filling the tank and ride.
    
    NOTE: Doubling or quadrupling the recommended dosage isn't going to
    work any better and will likely make the bike run pretty crappy.
    Your fuel tank is MAYBE 5 gallons... one bottle of the one-shot
    stuff is intended to treat approx. 16-20 gallons of fuel... 
    Can you say, "simple division" boys and girls?
    
    Do this for 2-3 tanks and your woes should be over unless you fail to 
    go through the put-away and re-start rituals below which will only
    compound the grief and make you grumpy.  
    
    Most Japanese built bikes since 1980 and above 500cc with gravity feed 
    fuel systems are equipped with automatic fuel tank shutoff valves in 
    addition to the manual petcock, (all part of the same assembly at the
    bottom of the tank), so you can't even accidentally forget to shut off
    the fuel.  As soon as the engine stops, the float bowls are isolated 
    from the tank.  Bikes with electric fuel pumps ('Wings & fuelies), do 
    the same thing...no ignition = no fuel pump = no fuel.
    
    This is a SAFETY feature...fuel could possibly continuously boil out of
    the carb overflows for a minute or two if the bike's parked hot and the 
    fuel is left on.  A hot bike awash with fuel and fuel vapors is just a 
    fireball waiting to happen.
    
    Back to how auto shutoff valves work...
    As soon as the engine is cranked, vacuum activates the auto-shutoff 
    valve and fuel flows again to the carb float bowls.  If you've
    drained the carbs, don't expect instantaneous starting.  It takes some 
    time to REFILL the bowls sufficiently to feed adequate fuel to a cold,
    choked engine.
    
    What I have done successfully, (for the last 30 years or so), is store
    bikes with as close to a full tank as possible (ride straight home
    after a fill), shut off the fuel, (manual only), and drain the 
    carbs into a pan or coffee tin, (just so I don't flood the floor with
    gas an vapors).  I'll do this even when I'm not sure when I'll ride 
    again. 
    
    On auto shut-off systems I also put a tiny "Tee" in the vacuum line 
    connected to a small piece of tubing which I place at an accessible
    fixed spot under a side cover and cap/plug it with a brightly colored 
    golf tee so I can easily locate it. 
    
    When I take the bikes out of storage I locate the tube, unplug it and 
    draw a light pulsating vacuum for about 30 sec. to refill the carb float bowls. 
    
    Creating a vacuum by mouth is PLENTY strong enough to activate the 
    shutoff valve.  Unless the auto shutoff valve diaphram is defective, 
    there's NO danger of an accidental mouthful of fuel.
    
    Anyway, the above method plus the "Tee Trick" ensures INSTANT startups
    even after not running for over a year...WITHOUT the use of ANY fuel 
    stabilizers.  Fuel stabilizers are only Isopropyl alcohol which 
    you can get as premium types of gasline anti-freeze or DryGas. 
    
    NOTE: Be sure to check the label...CHEAP dry-gas products contain Methanol
    which is actually harmful to your engine and fuel system and will only mix 
    with water condensation molecules but not fuel.  Isopropyl alcohol,
    (Isopropanol), will mix with both fuel AND water and burn off easily
    with no adverse effects to fuel system. 
    You can always find Iso fuel dryers at tractor/farm equipment vendors for
    about $1 for an 8oz. bottle which will treat 4 motorcycles or your bike 
    and every darned small engine device you have around the house. 
    Farmers only buy stuf that doesn't work ONCE. 
    
    So, that's it... a little care goes a looonng way.  There's no
    need for `snake oil' to `cure' preventable problems.  `Snake Oil' 
    should be on a one-tank-per-season preventive basis only.
    
    Good Luck
    
    Also see notes on bike storage.

    
    Bart,
    
    Get a harley.
    
    chet    ;^)  ;^)
    
    

    
    If the bike runs ok once it is warm I doubt its dirty carbs. Most
    new bikes run lean do to EPA. I would agree with the first commet
    needs more choke in the cold weather. 
    
    I have five bikes so in the winter one or two could sit for awhile 
    and they always start up and run once gas gets into the carbs. 
    If the bike sits for a week or so then the carbs will be empty 
    since the gas evaporated out of them. If the bike has a prime then 
    I set it there for a couple minutes so the gas will flow into 
    the carbs before I try to start the bike. If It does not have 
    a prime then I put the choke on full and crank the bike. Once it starts 
    I don't touch the throtle for a couple seconds other wise it will
    stall. This give the bike a chance to warm up and for the carbs to 
    fill. This is a ritual I go through several times in the winter but
    not in the warmer months.
    
    I've noticed that if a bike sits for a couple weeks the gas in the carbs
    has evaporated out. So as far as the carbs are concerned it shouldn't
    matter if the bike sat a couple weeks or 6 months once the gas has 
    evaperated out the vacuum shut off should keep anymore gas from flowing
    into the carbs.   
    
    If a bike has set a long time the old gas does make it run bad until
    it is all burned out.
    
    	My thoughts,
    	Tony
    

    ref. 490.3
    
    Chet,
    
    Whattya mean?  A Harley with stale gas will put you in your grave
    trying to bump it back to life!  ;^j
    
    J-

    re:0

    	As was mentioned in the note .4, if the petcock valve has a
    "Prime" position, try using that. This by-passes the vacuum activated
    auto-shutoff John mentioned and allows fuel to flow without the vacuum.

    	My guess is that the bike probably sits longer with the weather we
    have this time of year (I know mine does) and the gas is evaporating
    from the carbs enough where it takes a little time to refill the bowls.

    	If everything is tight, you can leave the petcock in the "Prime"
    position, but it's not recommended as you never know when a float will
    stick. I usually turn mine to prime in the morning, have a cup of
    caffeine, then go start my bike.

    	I have an '82 Suzuki 750 with 4-valves per cylinder and have
    never drained the carbs for storage. I top off the tank at the end of
    the season and run carb cleaner the 1st tank or two after storage. Been 
    doing that for the last 9 seasons with no problems.
    
    	Ray

    	

    
    I run Junk Yard gas in my Harley, starts right up, and sounds mean
    as a Junk Yard Dawg!!!!!
    
    
    							Dawg~~~~~

    re .7
    
    Yo Dawg,
    
    You ain't got nearly 11:1 compression like most of today's ricers either.
    Your compression is more like a 2 cylinder John Deere. 
    
    Come to think of it...the sound is kinda similar too... crude but
    powerful ;^j 
    
      J-

    
    re:8 
    	  Hey, cool idea...   
    
    	  New paint job,  John Deere Green with yellow flames..
                          And 18" Antlers for handlebars.....
    
    	
    					Hey i'm onto something...  
    								  Dawg~~~~
    

    re .9
    
    Dawg, 
    
    Yer idea sounds kinda `down home',  outdoorsey, and flash all at once,
    don't it?  'Cept I'd make it `pearl' colors, chrome the antlers,
    and use the cape for a fork-mount tool pouch with matching tank-deco strip.
    ;^P
    
     J-

    
    Hey, 
    	 Theres a picture in this months Easyrider with this dude on an
    	 Indian with a rifle holster, and a deer tied down on the rear
         fender. And it's in Colorado Springs..... 
    
    							Dawg~~~~~

    Yeah, neat-o!
    
    I'll bet anything he didn't go INTO the woods on the bike to pull the
    deer out, though... ugh that'd be a pain in the tookis on ANY 2
    wheeler, but especially a big 'ol hawg with easily bottomed suspension
    and super heavy weight. 
    
    J-
    

    Getting back to the base note.....
    
    A couple of years ago I purchased a used bike which seemed to run good.
    A couple of weeks later I had to have the bike picked up and hauled
    back to the shop.....carbs were fouled up with varnish type residue.
    Turned out that the bike had been in storage for 2 years and the carbs
    were never drained. So the following year after purchasing a new Yamaha
    Virago I put stabilizer in the gas tank and drained the carbs. Bike
    started ok next spring but ran like sh*t until I got rid of the
    stabilizer in the tank.
    
    Now all I do is make sure I have a full tank of gas before storing.
    Dealer said that since the bike will only be stored for 4 months or so
    I shouldn't have a problem. I've gone 3 years this way on 2 different
    bikes (Vulcan now) with NO problems.
    
    Your mileage may vary.
    
    Jerry

That's interesting.  I put Stabil in the tank (drained the carbs)
and stored my bike for the winter (Virago 1100).  It started 
right up in the Spring, but did it run lousy.  I thought I might need the 
carburetors adjusted or something.  Now, I'm on my third tank of gas since
I took the bike out of "storage" and it's finally running like it should.  
What does that Stabil stuff do to cause such poor performance anyway?  I might
try *not* using it next year as .13 suggested.

Diana

    
    ref. .14
    
    The MAGIC IS:
    
    SHUT OFF THE FUEL SUPPLY and either RUN the machine dry or drain the
    carbeurators.  Running it dry is actually better because it also
    empties all the small fuel and vacuum circuits in the carbs of 
    liquid fuel which can also turn to varnish and make it run for sh_t.
    
    Most modern Jap bikes prescribe regular low octane fuel yet have high
    compression which will run lousy on even slightly stale regular fuel. 
    
    When putting it away, fill up with premium which by Spring will
    probably run O.K., and add a dash (1/3 bottle) of carb/injection 
    cleaner before filling.  This will keep the varnish from forming and
    clean any varnish up when you run it in Spring.
    
    Please read much earlier notes in this file... Sta-bil is only alcohol.
    
    John
    
    As an extra measure, you can 
    gas... regular gas is for emmissions purposes.
    When you store it, store with premium fuel and a bit (1/3 bottle) of 
    carb/injector 

    Since I started this mess I thought I would give an update.  I took the
    advice of the notes file and added a bottle of carb cleaner to my tank
    of gas and change the plugs (the old plugs looked fine but I changed
    them for GOOD LUCK!!).  The bike is starting better but not great. 
    When this tank is empty (probably today) I plan on doing the same thing
    again with the carb cleaner in the tank.  I figure it it should mint by
    then.
    
    			Thanks and be careful out there,
    
    			Bart
    
    PS: some teenage kid in a hurry to get to school almost took me out the
    other day.

    For all of my past motorcycles (including a Virago) and all of my current 
    seasonal type engines; I start the engine, shut off the fuel supply,
    and wait for it to run out of gas.  Then I drain the gas tank.
    
    I have never had any problems when its time to get them going again.
    
    Mark

Unfortunately, I can't shut off my fuel supply (no petcock on Virago) 
and run it dry.  Will try the carb cleaner in tank the end of this season.

    fwiw:
    When i stored the bike over the winter, i used STABIL.
    Alwasy started in spring & I do not recall problems with 'running
    well'.
    
    regards
    	dwp

    
    I have had the same experience as dwp with STABIL. I have had no
    adverse affects IMO due to it.
    
    Alpo                

    Add one more to the "I [heart sign] STABIL" club.  I fill up my tanks,
    add STABIL, run the bikes long enough to ensure that the gas in the
    carbs is stabilized, plug in the Battery Tender (tm) and my winter
    storage is complete.  Come springtime I have no problems other than
    the FLH likes a quick squirt of starting fluid on its first start.
    
    And I have to remember to turn its gas back on (blush).
    
    The only thing I can think of which would be better would be to live in
    a climate where I could ride year-round and not have to store the bikes
    for the winter.
    
    Cheers!

    re -16
    
    never mentioned how it used to act before it acted up.
    Also how deos it run once warmed up? If its ok once up to temp
    it might be something simple like the choke cable somehow disconnected.
    Or the choke is not choking...
    I'd be inclined to say its not varnish if sitting for less than 6-8
    months. 
    
    steve

    re .15, the Stabil I have is labeled as containing petroleum
    distillates.  It sure doesn't smell like alcohol!

    re.23
    
    FYI, some alcohols ARE petroleum distillates.
    
    What particular alcohol smell were you looking for when you whiffed the
    can of Sta-Bil? 
    
    Vodka?
    Beer?
    Gin? 
    Anti-Freeze?
    Rubbing Alcohol?
    Paint Thinner?
    Ether?
    Ethanol?
    Methanol?
    Glycol?
    Etc.? 
     
    They're ALL alcohols; they're from different distillations, and 
    for the most part, don't smell alike. 
    
    Anyway, there is SOME form of alcohol in the Sta-Bil to absorb
    condensation into solution because Gasoline and water just don't mix
    and water won't burn...period. 
    
    Regards,
    
    John
    John