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Conference noted::ibmpc-95

Title:IBM PCs, clones, DOS, etc.
Notice:Intro in 1-11, Windows stuff in NOTED::MSWINDOWS please
Moderator:TARKIN::LINND
Created:Tue Jan 03 1995
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3023
Total number of notes:28404

2983.0. "Photos and Color Printers" by SAPPHO::DUBOIS (Hailstorm Project Leader) Wed Apr 09 1997 16:01

I need advice on printing photos - the type of printer to get, plus what
software I might need, plus anything else which you can add.

Every year my family gives out 8-10 calendars, where the pictures are those
of our family, mostly of the kids.  The relatives love it.  We've been
having them made through Kinko's or other places, but since we were thinking
of buying a new printer anyway, it occured to us that we could now print
them ourselves.

But we want them to look *good*.

I've looked at the HP and Canon printers, and am planning to look at the
new 1440 dpi Epson printers.  I don't mind spending $500 for the printer, 
as long as I can make up the cost over the next few years in the money we'll
save on the calendars.  The calendars have been costing about $30 each 
(roughly 13 pages, printed on both sides). 

Assuming we can find a friend with a good scanner, what do I need to 
look for besides dpi?  And will most "good scanners" even scan as well
as 720 dpi, much less 1440?  If the scanner only scans at 600 dpi,
will a 720 (or 1440) printer still make it look better than a 600 dpi printer?

Another thing I noticed is that some printers come with photo software, 
and some do not.  The Epson 800, for instance, apparently does not 
need any, from what I can tell from the web page 
	( http://www.epson.com/whatsnew/ygtsi/compare.html ).  
This makes me wonder what it can do *without* the software, and what the
software on various systems *does*. 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

      Carol
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2983.1passing along some experiencesSTRATA::LPIPERWed Apr 09 1997 17:0523
    First of, I'd susepct this entry will bring a lot of replies!
    
    If your looking for reccomendations, I've had much satisfaction with
    the HP 800 series printers.  The world of scan resolution, image
    editing / enhancement, and final print output can be pretty daunting
    if you want to let it.  
    
    From my experiences, and from what I've managed to learn so far, one
    should not intermix scanned in image resolution (sic:dpi) for printer
    output "dpi".  It seems the two are not the same.  Any larger value
    for scan input over 300 dpi generates extremely large files, and does
    not necessarily mean vastly greater output resolutuion.  It's a tinker
    and adjust until your happy with it thing, it seems.
    
    The Storm Software "Easyphoto Scanner" sheet fed scanner has worked
    very well for me, and as I related above, using the HP printer for
    output has been a joy to use.  The paper one chooses makes a world of
    difference, as well.
    
    I've been using a "lite" version of Adobe Photoshop for the image edit
    work, and am very impressed.  There's a lot to learn, however!
    
    best of luck.
2983.2QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centWed Apr 09 1997 17:285
There's a new set of "photographic printers" coming out, according to the
latest PC Week.  One (from HP, I think) even applies a clear gloss coat over
the image!  If this is the sort of thing you want, wait a bit...

				Steve
2983.3Output size too small?SSDEVO::JACKSONJim JacksonWed Apr 09 1997 18:332
I read that PC Week article at their web site, and the largest output size
of the group was 4x6 inches.  It sounds like .0 wants larger than that.
2983.4Savings may be small too...WRKSYS::THOMASStop, look and listenWed Apr 09 1997 19:175
    I think you'll have a hard time paying for a new printer with the money
    you'll save. Top quality glossy paper runs about a dollar a sheet plus
    ink which can easily run over 50 cents a page for a photo image.
    
    /Rich
2983.5not there yet...not yetCOOKIE::FROEHLINVMS...riding into the setting sun!Wed Apr 09 1997 20:019
    I printed some scanned photgraphs on my Canon BJC-610 in 720x720 dpi
    mode. It's by far not photo quality. Talking to a friend of mine, a
    professional graphics designer, he pointed out that photographs have
    resolutions in the 4,000+ dpi and copier machines in the 1,000+ dpi.
    
    It's nice for proof printing, though. Oh forgot...a 8"x11" picture in
    720x720 mode takes about 10 minutes ... and quite some ink.
    
    Guenther
2983.6HP 693 works for meCHOWDA::FAHEYAre we having 'FUN' yet?Wed Apr 09 1997 20:0913
    My HP 693C does an excellent job of re-producing photographs that I
    scan on an HP4C. My only complaint is that when the color starts
    getting lousy I can't tell if the color cartridge or the photo
    cartridge is running low on ink. I have to guess and if I'm wrong I
    waste a $1.00 on a photo paper sheet.... But wait you say why not just
    print it on plain paper? The problem is that photos printed on plain
    paper don't seem to be as color rich as the photo paper and slight
    variences in tone (too much green for example) are very hard to see on
    plain paper....
    
    Jim 
    
    
2983.7KELVIN::VILCANSWed Apr 09 1997 20:1915
    
    re: Color Printers
    
    	The best deal going is on the IEG home page
    http://cassidy.mro.dec.com/ieg/ check the new announcements for printer
    deals.
    
    	The LSR 2000 is a 600dpi 3 page per minute color printer for $1999,
    this printer used to list for almost 10K and cost was close to 5K. The
    deal is only for internal use only. The color toner cartridges are
    about $100 each for 4,000 pages at 5% coverage making it much cheaper
    than the color ink jets. The quality is excellent on regular paper, and
    would be even better on glossy.
    
    							=Paul=
2983.8Still don't see the allurePCBUOA::BAYJJim, PortablesWed Apr 09 1997 20:5717
    I'm curious.  Are these "photo realistic" printers one of those things
    that pretty soon I'm going to *have* to have?
    
    CDs were something that I can't imagine having lived without.  I
    haven't been too interested in Jaz or Zip drives, though.
    
    I can't help but feel this photo realistic thing is one of those
    "marketing successes".  I bought a color ribbon printer, and in the
    first week I printed one or two color sheets, and its never had a color
    ribbon in it since.  Too much bother for too little payoff, generally
    speaking.
    
    Obviously I'm not in a specialized field like art or graphic design,
    which is different.
    
    jeb
    
2983.9Alps MD 2K seriesTARKIN::DAVILLIWed Apr 09 1997 21:1910
    rep.  Color printers
    
    
    Alps MD series  micro dry ink  - plain paper  600x600	$401
    
    The 4000 series includes a color scanner			$683
    
    product pricing	http://204.57.71.1/products/products.asp
    
    -Barry
2983.10What brand has 1000 DPI?TANDA::AldrichThu Apr 10 1997 12:137
re.5> "and copier machines in the 1,000+ dpi." - most copier unit I've
seen (Canon & Xerox - Kodak's is a relabeled Canon) are 400x400 dpi.
If you know of one over that can you let me know the brand as I know 
someone who'd love to get "better resolution" then he's getting now...

Thanks in advance,
-Bill
2983.11exitNECSC::DENCEThu Apr 10 1997 13:5621
    I have an HP Scanjet 5P and an Epson 800.  With this combination a
    photo ( going through two electro-mechanical transitions) printed on
    glossy paper is impressive.  Viewed at 2ft, it is extremely hard to 
    tell the difference.  Now, if you look with a magnifying glass......  The
    quality is perfectly sufficient to make copies.  My only concern is the
    lasting (fading) of the printed output.  I do print 2,  3 or more, on a 
    page depending on size.  In my opinion, the convienence makes the expense
    worth it when you consider all of the editing/cropping/annotating
    capabilities you have.  
    
    I picked up the 800 at the KGP show for $405.00.  There is a show this
    weekend at Marlborough. If you don't care about speed, the 600 is appox
    $100 less.  
    
    One other quick comment is that the Epson driver displays how much ink
    is in the cartriges (both B/W and Color).  It appears to change in
    increments of 25%. It appears each time you print. A very nice feature, 
    as running out of ink on my Cannon BJ200e was always a suprise and usually 
    happened at the worst possible time.  Imagine April 14th at 8pm trying to 
    print final version of TurboTax .... no spare!   Didn't happen, but
    could.
2983.12Don't need to get a life...get a color printerNABSCO::FROEHLINVMS...riding into the setting sun!Thu Apr 10 1997 17:349
    My wife got hooked on color printing. I bought Print Shop a few weeks
    ago and since then she has everything in color for her business...
    business cards, grettings, banners, labels including a color
    photograph (1"x1"). Excellent colors...gives all a professional look.
    I also made my own business cards...but I became lost in colors,
    shapes, graphics, rotation, scale, fonts, effects... the cards look
    OUTSTANDING now ;-).
    
    Guenther