Conference noted::ibmpc-95

    Before installing any driver updates from Number 9, you should take a
    look at their FAQ, reached by a link after you select the model of your
    card.  This contains detailed information not in the readme.txt files
    on switching to standard VGA and completely deleting the old files from
    DOS before installing the new updates (the new updates are actually a
    complete new reinstall).
    
    I've been using their "one step" update procedure from Win95 for many
    months with variable results.  It seems that not all of the files that
    need to be updated in the C:\windows hierarchy get updated with the
    simple "double click on setup.exe" procedure.  After doing the complete
    uninstall/reinstall from the FAQ, my Motion 771 is faster than it's
    ever been.
    
    Tony

    
    Anyone have anything to say about a #9 GXE64 PCI card? I am considering
    getting a mid-range board in the next couple of weeks. I sent mail to
    a person who had 2 PCI cards for sale, #9 GXE and a Matrox Mill. board.
    No answer via mail....I don't want to spend $$$ on a card now as things
    are changing in this area fairly fast, but want a decent board that
    will run in DOS very good and have reasonably good performance in W95.
    
    2Mb on board, possibly 4Mb, depends on cash flow at the time.
    
    

    The GXE64 is a nice board.  Get the "Pro" version, ie. GXE64Pro and get
    it with 4Mb of memory.  That config should be pretty cheap these days. 
    DOS games are very smooth, even WinQuake under windows NT is very
    smooth.  You will not be disappointed with any performance issues.
    
    ps - I have had the GXE64pro 4Meg since they came out.
    
    						.dave.
    

    Hullo,
    
    my wife's machine has a GXE64 with 1 Meg - and it performs really well.
    One day 'real soon now' I may add extra memory to the board. She's
    starting to complain about 'how slow' things are (hinting at a P166 I
    think ;').
    
    H

    
    My friend has Arts 2Mb PCI video cards for a cheap price that he puts
    into his Pentium systems at his store. I will probably go with this one
    for the time being (he says he has had no problems with them, S3
    chipset also on board) unless I see a GXE64 Pro w/4Mb at the upcoming
    show for not much more....
    
    

    re .189
    
    Tony, how did you get to Number 9?  Web (www...)?  I can't seem to
    get there.
    
    michael

    Yes...
    
    www.nine.com --> driver updates --> {card #} --> {Frequently Asked...}
    
    Tony

I'm in a customer situation where I need very fast graphics on a 200Mhz
Pentium (this is on our PCI passive backplane products) under Windows NT.

The customer is talking about a Diamond Stealth 3400.  Does anyone in this
conference have a feel for how that video card compares with a Matrox Millenium?
Are there any other suggestions for the fastest graphics possible in the $300
price range?

Al Cook

    2D or 3D graphics? 
    
    Even a Stealth 3D 2000 beats the 3400... And the Stealth 3D 3000 is
    faster yet.
    
    Depends on the benchmark and -exactly- what the customer is doing as to
    whether the Matrox is faster or not. It's pretty close to the 3D 3000.
    
    Opinions on video tend to spawn religious wars... It's hard to get
    numbers that are really meaningful. The customer's app speed is all
    that really matters.
    
    If you can define the problem a little better, then the opinions may
    mean more...
    
    Chris
    

    >$300 range
    A 220Mhz RAMDAC 2Mb Matrox Millennium can be had for $179 from
    PC Connections (supporting our local Milford, NH businesses) with
    $5 Airborne Express overnight ship... you can even order it at 2am
    and have it arrive the next day.
    K

Sorry, should have said that it needed to be 4 Mbytes for the resolution they
need.  I think that runs the Matrox up a bit.

Ok, I was confused about the 3400.  Is the 3400 different (older?  slower?)
than the 3000 or 3D 3000XL? 

The application is customer written.  I did not see any specific 3D during the
short demo I witnessed.  What they are most concerned about is flicker free
updates and full motion video. They were interested in the MMX technology and we
won't have that in the passive backplane products until Klamath.  I'm hoping to
show them good graphics with a 200Mhz board using a good, fast video card.  I
also can't throw money at this.  I'll need to stay under $300 to make the price
cut.

ac

    The Stealth 3d 2000 or 3000 (4 MB) and Matrox Millenium (or Mystique,
    for that matter) (4 MB) will all do flicker free updates and video.
    The 3000 uses VRAM, Millenium is WRAM, the 2000 and Mystique are DRAM
    The 3000 and Millenium have faster RAMDACs (potentially clearer
    picture). Both are under $300 in 4 MB models.
    
    The 3400, while a very nice card, may have trouble with the motion
    video - it was not optimised for that. All of the above cards seem to
    do motion video better than it, from what I've seen.
    
    Chris
    

    Hi Al,
    
    There's an 8-page comparative review in BYTE cover date Feb 97. Prices
    range from $149 to $599. Here's the text from the "best overall"
    description (50% of rating was down to performance):
    
    "There are many affordable 64bit graphics accelerators but few can
    match the VideoLogic GrafixStar 450's combination of Windows graphics
    acceleration and low price. Put simply: this is the lowest-price card
    we tested ($149) and it still has the best performance numbers running
    NSTL's InterMark benchmark. The GrafixStar 450 uses the 64bit S3 Virge
    accelerator chip with a built-in 3D engine and it supports up to 4MB of
    EDO DRAM. It also supports MS Direct3D API."
    
    Given that the cover date is February, that info is probably at least
    three months out of date now... 
    
    regards
    john
    toem uk

    It could depend on the details of the Virge implementation, but if
    you're running WinNT V4.0, Matrox still wins by a pretty wide margin.
    This with S3's latest V2.02 vs. Matrox V2.35 drivers.  Virge is
    a bit cheaper tho.
    .02 K

Thanks Guys!

We may have to run our own tests with the customers code.

Thanks for all the help.

ac

    I had an interesting thing happen this past weekend. I installed a new
    system information utility called 'Sandra' and it works terrific.
    Whilst it was evaluating my system, it recommended that I set my video
    display to 32bits, rather than 24bits for better performance. I have a
    Pentium 100 with a PCI Diamond Stealth Video VRAM (3240XL) card. I
    always assumed more bits would SLOW the display down, but, viola'! It
    actually SIGNIFICANTLY improved my video rates!
    
    I independently tested the rates at 24bpp, and then again at 32bpp, and
    they were perhaps 20% faster at 32bpp. I never tried it before because
    I assumed more bits meant SLOWER... I was wrong.
    
    FYI.
    
    Mark

    re: .205
    
    Presumably the change to 32bpp results in higher memory->adapter
    performance due to lw-aligned memory references, at the cost of memory 
    spatial efficiency?

Pointer to Sandra?? Is it free/shareware

Greg

    I found Sandra on the Windows95 Shareware site (www.windows95.com).  
    
    Just search the site for 'Sandra'.
    
    -jason