Conference noted::ibmpc-95

This weekend's show in Portsmouth shows it at "Yoken's" - and
I-95 (exit 3 north, exit 5 south).  Bills it as a bigger location.  Any
directions?

Brian J.

    Yoken's is on Route 1 a couple of miles south of Portsmouth (or was the
    last time I was up there). You can get off I95 at the Portsmouth circle
    (landmark: liquor store) and work your way south from there along
    Route 1 (it's on the west side), or get off I95 further south and kind
    of wind your way over to Route 1. If you've ever been to Artisan's
    Outlet, it's 100 yards or so from there.
    
    -Tom

    
    Next local one is the NCS at The Rockingham Race Track on the 15th of
    March. One day only.
    

Ya - I'm going to head to Portsmouth to see what is up (first time attending)
so I'm preparing my list (and tracking down some prices) on line.

Just printing their schedule page and brining it with you drops the 
price to $5.00 per person (at least that what it says it will do!).

Brian J.

	Probably already mentioned in this note, but...

	Be aware that NCS shows are much smaller than KGP shows; I'd guess
	about 1/3 the size. Also, as tempting as saving sales tax may be,
	I've found the NCS shows to have prices a fair amount higher than
	KGP even after the sales tax savings.

Larry

Are you sure that Yoken's is SOUTH of Portsmouth?  I picture it being right near
the old drawbridge.  Have they moved, or do I not remember right?  (I'm remembering
from when my family used to drive from Maine to Boston before the big I95 bridge
was built).

Burns

It's about a mile or two south of the traffic circle, not really near the
bridge, but I think it's actually in the city limits of Portsmouth.

				Steve

>>	Probably already mentioned in this note, but...
>>
>>	Be aware that NCS shows are much smaller than KGP shows; I'd guess

I'm a rookie.  I'm going armed with a bunch of 'off the web' prices.  I'm 
ready to buy but am also ready to walk out and waste the entrance fee.

The next KGP show listed is too far away for my needs.  

It will be an experience I'm sure.

bjm

    
    Warren's is the one near the old drawbridge.  I like it much better
    than Yokens.

For KGP shows (and likely others) CASH is the preferred method of payment,
and many vendors will charge a 3% surcharge for credit card purchases.

Just FYI.
\john

    I've never been to one of these; they always seem too much like
    buying stereo speakers off the back of a van. .168 just reinforces
    this impression to me.

    They're worthwhile, I've found, though you sometimes have to park your
    ethics at the door - for example, many vendors routinely sell
    "Academic" package software to anyone at prices well below normal
    retail (though these packages often lack manuals.)  Good prices on
    memory and other hardware bits, but it pays to know the going rate and
    not assume that everything's a good deal.
    
    					Steve

    RE: Yoken's
    
    Steve's got it. It's south of the center of Portsmouth and, as I
    recall, south of where Route 1 and the Route 1 bypass meet, which makes
    it a couple of miles south of both the circle and the center.
    
    It's possible that it was near the drawbridge at one time. It's not
    been without its history of fires and such.
    
    -Tom

Well, as I expected, it was an experience.  I can't imagine what the 
smaller venue was like (they said this place was "bigger") because this place
was mobbed.  It was almost impossible to move around.  If there was one person
looking at something on either side of the table - you were lucky if you could
squeeze by.  And if  there happened to be someone coming the other way - you
wait.  Many people were saying it was too crowded.

I picked up the Matrox graphics card I had picked out but that was it.

I was wondering about the "cash" issue before I went but the dealer I bought
the card from didn't charge extra.  The one dealer that had the brand of mother
board I wanted was charging 3% over.  I don't blame them.  This weekend I'll
bring the check book.  

The Rockingham (Salem) show is listed as "wide aisles" - I'll find out this
Saturday.  .

Things that surprised me:

- Lack of monitors (they are high price but they are also big items)
- Lack of printers (not that many around)
- Number of people selling memory 
- Number of people there who were trying to upgrade their 386 systems (memory
  mostly).
- XXX CDs - Me - naive :-)
- Lack of SCSI devices (disk drives/CD)
- Vendors right next to each other charging $20-$50 difference for the 
  same items (the Matrox Millinimum card for example).
- Many of the prices of things were $50-$70 over my "high" price I found
  on the net.

Things that really suprized me:
 - An Alpha AXP mother board for sale!
 - Celebris PCs (low profile desktops) for sale for under 500 (I think).


As Steve mentioned, there were a few vendors selling software that was 
marked as "for sale with new PCs only".  For example the complete 
W95 "for PCs without Windows" - which lists for 200 at Computer City
was on a table for 70-80.

I'll head over to Salem this weekend to pick up several items (floppy drive
maybe CD drive, memory, some old games for my son) but I'll be mail ordering
much of  the hardware this week because:

1) I don't expect to find the item at these shows
2) The prices were not any better than I can find on the web/mail order.


I've very glad I spent the time to "get ready" to attend one of these things.  
If you don't know what you are looking for you will be totally confused.  I
kept looking at mother boards that said "Trident" (chip set right?) on them, 
no mention of the maker.  I was looking for a Tyan Titan VX AT 
board - and I kept saying "nope that isn't it".  I then started to count
PCI slots - anything less than 5 and I knew it wasn't what I was looking for.

I almost gave in and bought a similar item than the one I had "picked out" 
but I thought better of myself.

Brian J.

> PCI slots - anything less than 5 and I knew it wasn't what I was looking for.

I think you'll have a tough time finding this, at a reasonable cost.

There is this belief that PCI is limited to 10 electrical loads per
bus ... and since each slot counts as two loads, four slots is the
most you could get and still have a connection to something on the
motherboard.  More than that would require multiple host bridges or
a PCI-PCI bridge (more cost, possible configuration problems,
performance impact).

In reality the 10 load "limit" is mostly myth.  However, getting more
than four slots to work, electrically, at full speed, is very difficult.

    I use an old 5 1/4" Magneto-Optical drive for storage and backup.  I'd
    like to get another as a spare.  Before I spend the admission fee, can
    anyone who has been to these shows tell me how likely I am to find such
    a thing at one of these shows?
    
    I can buy new drives mail order, but they're expensive and are targeted
    to people who want the highest capacity and newest features.  I'm
    looking for the lowest capacity (600 MB) so it will run with all of my
    existing cartriges, hence my hope that this kind of show might have old
    units left over or traded or production over-runs, or similar material.
    

    Not too likely.
    
    These shows specialize in the "low end" (which is why you'll find few
    SCSI products there).  I can't recall ever seeing an MO drive at one of
    the shows, though I have seen writeable-CD drives.
    
    				Steve

    Re .174:
    
    There are usually a couple of vendors at the NCS shows who sell
    older used equipment.  I normally don't look at their wares, so
    I don't know if they might of had MO stuff in the past.

    re: Lack of monitors -- There is usually a NJ outfit at the KGP shows
    with refurbished monitors (mostly Dell).
    
    re: Use of credit cards -- 3% is cheap insurance when dealing with an
    unknown company.  Your only recourse other than the credit card company
    is getting the show producer to intercede for you.
    
    Tony

 I'm looking for a released, not MS subscription, copy of the new Windows 95
 (950B) that uses FAT32 and is MS has printed `For Sale with new Computers
 Only' on.  Do these kits show up at shows? how much? and if yes, would this
 weeks Salem show likely have them?

 Bruce

    Re .178:
    
    Yes, the "For Distribution Only with a New Computer" copies show up
    at the NCS shows.  I've seen the W95 kits for $60-70, depending on
    the vendor, manuals included, etc.  I haven't explicitly looked for
    OSR2 variants, but I'd expect them to be available at the show.

 So Salem is Rt 93, exit and follow signs to Rockingham Park (? amusement
 part?) and show should be obvious?  The past couple of shows in Marlboro
 I could not get a parking space, how is Salem?

    Re .180:
    
    It's a race track.  Take route 93 to exit 1 (follow the signs to
    the Rockingham Mall), once you get off the exit stay toward the
    left.  You'll pass the mall on your left (through 1 set of traffic
    lights), then take a left at the access road to the race track.
    There's a lot of parking - I guess the track draws more gamblers
    than the computer show draws nerds!

    OSR2 is available on the internet advertised in MANY of the USEnet
    newsgroups. 
    
    ANYONE planning on taking a W95 OSR1 (950 or 950a) system to OSR2
    (950B) should get the following:
    
    	http://linbg.ucsd.edu/~erwin/osr2.html
    
    It tells you EVERYTHING you need to know, INCLUDING how to fool the kit
    into installing ON TOP of an existing Windows95 installation (pages
    12-14)!!
    

    
>    	http://linbg.ucsd.edu/~erwin/osr2.html
                  ^
                  ^

	Got an extra character in there, should be:

		 http://ling.ucsd.edu/~erwin/osr2.html

	Going there, however, auto-forwards you to:

		http://www.users.cts.com/king/s/serwin/osr2.html

Larry

Yeah, a friend bought an OSR2 kit at a KGP show.

As far as I can tell, OSR2 is about the only version of W95 they're selling
at these shows.

The dates on the "for new PCs only" W95 software that I saw had 1996 stamped 
on it.  Some included a floppy which I assume had a driver for a CD in it (not
sure).  Some were just the CD, others had a book with it.  $90 down to $69 was
the price range.

bjm

re: Rockingham show

A LOT more space inside to move than the Portsmouth show.  I think there were a 
few more vendors also.  The lot was pretty full when I walked out at about
12:30 or so but that is because people simply didn't want to walk (and were
driving all over the place waiting for someone to leave).  There was, I think,
still some other events happening inside the track.

I actually missed several vendors my first time around because things were so
spread out.

Real cheap food too (gag $2+ for a <16oz  coke).  I think they think its the 
Fleet Center in there!

These shows are like any other flea market, you know where the good deals of 
the day are by the number of people waiting in line :-)

bjm

    A general question.....
    
    What amount of flexibility do most of you see on items at the PC shows?
    ie are most of the Vendors "firm" on their prices? If a disk drive is
    $230, would you expect that to be "firm" ? If a CPU is $100, would you
    expect that to be firm? From my experience on software sellers are more
    negotiable, hardware it doesnt seem too negotiable. I have talked down
    video cards and a board, but am now wondering about drives and other
    items. (I will be building a PC for a friend, probably from next
    weeks show). Will a seller typically let you walk away over $10-20 for
    a $200+ item? (of course you can always come back anyway :)
    
    One reason I ask this is too often show prices at tables on lots of
    items is not the best price, nor even close. 
    
    So...how to get the best deal? Lets hear about your experience.
    
    

Yes, they're negotiable, especially on commodity items.  Never hurts to ask.

			Steve

Upcoming NCS Computer Shows   - 10:00 am to 3:30 pm except as noted
-------------------------------------------------------------------
APR 05	SAT	Hyannis, MA	Tara Hyannis Hotel
				West End Cir. (Off Main St)

APR 06	SUN	Taunton, MA	Taunton Holiday Inn (expanded: 2 floors)
				Exit 9 off I-495, between rt 24 & I-95

APR 13	SUN	Manchester, NH	Center of NH Expo Complex at Holiday Inn
				I-293 Exit 5 N or Exit 6 S

APR 19	SAT	Seabrook, NH	Seabrook Greyhound Park
				I-95 Exit 1 

APR 20	SUN	Portland, ME	Verrillo's Conv. Ctr.
				@Howard Johnson Moter Lodge
				I-95 (Maine Tpk) Exit 8

APR 27	SUN	Westport, MA	White's of Westport
				Exit 9 East or Exit 10 West off I-195


FUTURE SHOWS:		
					+-------------------------------+
MAY 04	SUN	Portsmouth, NH		| Northern Computer Shows	|	
MAY 10	SAT	Sturbridge, MA		| P.O. Box 556			|
MAY 17	SAT	Topsfield, MA		| Bolton, MA  01740		|
MAY 18	SUN	Swansea, MA		| (508) 744-8440		|
MAY 24	SAT	Nashua, NH		| http://www.ncshows.com	|
MAY 31	SAT	Salem, NH		+-------------------------------+
JUN 07  SAT	Seabrook, NH
JUN 08	SUN	Taunton, MA

    re .187 on negotiating price:
    
    Not being a very strong negotiator, I sometimes substitute
    procrastination, putting off buying memory, for instance, until the
    vendors have done a little price chopping to compete with each other.
    
    Tony

    re: negotiating...
    
    something I do when I'm out to make a big purchase at a show (here in
    Oz) is take a notepad and do a quick circuit of the show asking prices.
    Then go back to the stall I "liked" the best (not necessarily the
    lowest price). Just by 'accidently' letting him see that I've done the
    rounds, he'll ask what the best price is I saw, he will often dropp
    immediately to that - then we start negotiating from there.
    
    e.g. I bought about 60Mb RAM a couple of shows back (some for me, some
    for some others), and by buying all from the one dealer, and having
    done the rounds, we got a good price (at the time)
    
    It helps too, to have cash :')
    
    hth
    
    H

The problem with doing the rounds is it sometimes takes 15->20 minutes for
people at the busy counter to even talk to you.  

At the Salem NH show there were about five different "busy" tables.  There 
was not a lot of "price matching" going on that I could hear.  I really don't 
like playing that game (maybe I should have brought my wife along - she likes 
to do that).  My cut at it is I'll find the best marked price buy it there - 
screw the others.  

Now of course, finding the prices is sometimes an interesting problem (had the
product, no price listed).  At these tables, when I did ask what the price 
was, the response was often "What are people getting over there?" 

One other thing that helps is being tall.  At 6'4" I could usually stand 
one or two rows back and see what everyone else was trying to buy.

bjm

    In the large shows in the Maryland area, I employ .190's technique.
    
    If the show is busy, you can expect prices to drop about 1.5 to 2
    hours after the doors open.  In a very busy show, the drop period will
    last for an hour or more.  I spend the early time at the show sizing up
    the best buys (and best vendors) and then wait for the discounting to
    begin.  It takes a bit of time, but I seem to get very good pricing via
    this technique.
    
    Now, if the show is slow, little or no discounting will occur.  You
    then need to negotiate your deals (if you can).
    
    FWIW
    
    -- Russ